Guruvani

Narasingha Maharaja:

Narasingha Maharaja:

Narasingha Maharaja:

. . . and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text) Deathlessness, fearlessness and freedom from the anxieties of old age and disease exist in the kingdom of God. ( Bhag . 2.6.19, text) The spiritual world... is especially meant for those who will never be reborn. ( Bhag . 2.6.20, text) The Lord and His eternal servitors in the transcendental kingdom all have eternal forms which are auspicious, infallible, spiritual and eternally youthful. (Bhag. 2.6.18, purport) In the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda , it is stated ...the three-fourths manifestation of God's creation... contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions... It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material world. ( Bhag . 2.9.10, purport) The three-fourths part manifestation of God's creation... contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions... everything in the transcendental world is everlasting, full of knowledge and bliss without any deterioration. (720426SB.TOK) The Lord has His internal energy also, which has another creation known to be the Vaikunthalokas, where there is no ignorance, no passion, no illusion and no past and present. With a poor fund of knowledge one may be unable to understand the existence of such things as the Vaikuntha atmosphere, but that does not nullify its existence. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)

A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in any circumstance... (Bhag. 11.2.53, text) According to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, we can understand from this verse that since none of the material facilities available in any of the universal planetary systems can distract a pure devotee of the Lord, such a devotee can never possibly fall or become inimical to the Lord's service. (Bhag. 11.2.53, purp. by disciples of Srila Prabhupada) In the spiritual world... no one wants to imitate the Lord in becoming the beneficiary. (Bhag. 1.15.25-6, purp.) In the spiritual world, there is no forgetfulness by the living entities, who are free from all kinds of contaminations resulting from the forgetful state of existence... the whole atmosphere of the spiritual world is called vidya, or full of knowledge. (Bhag. 2.6.21, purp.) . . . in that pure conscious state [in the spiritual world] the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but that he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love. (Bhag. 2.9.1, purp. last parag.) A pure living entity in his original spiritual existence is fully conscious of his constitutional position as an eternal servitor of the Lord. All souls who are situated in such pure consciousness are liberated, and therefore they eternally live in bliss and knowledge in the various Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual sky. (Bhag. 3.5.29, purp.) A nitya-mukta never forgets his position as the eternal servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One who does not forget this position and knows that he is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord is nitya-mukta . (Bhag. 4.16.19, purp.) All the residents of Vaikunthaloka know perfectly well that their master is Narayana, or Krsna, and that they are all His servants. They are all self-realized souls who are nitya-mukta, everlastingly liberated. Although they could conceivably declare themselves Narayana or Visnu, they never do so; they always remain Krsna conscious and serve the Lord faithfully. Such is the atmosphere of Vaikunthaloka. ( Bhag. 6.1.34-6, purp.) A man with full knowledge knows perfectly well that there cannot be any existence without Krsna. ( Bhag. 7.15.58, purp.) An exalted and pure devotee like Maharaja Ambarisa is in full awareness of Paramatma, Brahman, maya, the material world, the spiritual world, and how things are going on everywhere. ( Bhag. 9.5.25, purp.) ... he never forgets his eternal servitorship to Krsna. ( Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.) . . .the nitya-siddhas are eternally Krsna conscious without any forgetfulness. (Nectar of Devotion, p. 205) [the nitya-mukta living entity] never forgets his eternal servitorship to Krsna. ( Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.) The living beings in Vaikunthaloka are never forgetful of their identities: they are eternally cognizant of their relationship with God ( Cc. Madhya-lila 5.22, purp.) Within this material world there are different grades of forms, and according to the grade, knowledge is proportionately manifested. For example, the knowledge in the body of a child is not as perfect as the knowledge in the body of an adult man. Everywhere there are different grades of living entities–in aquatic animals, in the plants and trees, in the reptiles and insects, in birds and beasts and in the civilized and uncivilized human forms of life. Above the human form of life there are demigods, Caranas and Siddhas on up to Brahmaloka, where Lord Brahma lives, and among these demigods there are always different grades of knowledge. But past this material world, in the spiritual sky, everyone is in full knowledge, and therefore all the living entities there are engaged in devotional service to the Lord, either in the Vaikuntha planets or in Krsnaloka. ( Krsna Book, Ch 28) The description of the spiritual world... Suddha-sattva means simply goodness, pure goodness... And in pure goodness we can understand our constitutional position: we can understand what is God, what is creation, everything... So the living entities there, they are full of knowledge. Therefore they do not come into this material world. (661217CC.NY) Root of forgetfullness is avidya, which is not present in the spiritual world. (cf. Cc. Madhya-lila 6.155) Cit means that he's full of knowledge. That is not in ignorance. This material happiness is in ignorance. And spiritual happiness is suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means pure goodness... Sattvam visuddham, visuddham vasudeva-sabditam. That is transcendental platform, and in that platform you can understand God. (690618SB.NV) In the spiritual world the form is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha. Every form is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. That is the difference between material world and spiritual world. (760419BG.MEL) Nitya-siddhas means they never come in contact with this material world, and even if they come here for some business, they do not forget their position. That is nitya-siddha . Try to understand. (Bg. Lecture, July 14, 1973, London)

The jivas have grown out of the jiva-shakti of Sri Krishna. Chit-shakti is Sri Krishna's full (plenary) shakti, whereas the jiva-shakti is the incomplete shakti. From the plenary potency are produced complete entities, but from the incomplete potency have grown the jivas as atomic chit... When he desired to have His adherent attendance ' nitya parshada ' servitors in His Transcendental plane Goloka- Vrindavana, Vaikuntha, etc, He through Baladeva created those Eternal Parshada as nitya-mukta jivas at those divine worlds... Again at Paravyoma (Vaikuntha) He, as Sankarshana, reveals the eternally free associate jivas for the performance of the eight kinds of service to Sri Narayana. Maha Vishnu, the incarnation of Sankarshana, establishing Himself in the heart of jiva-shakti as Paramatma, creates the jiva-souls of tatastha shakti. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya ... As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-shakti that begets the jivas, and not the chit-shakti. " (Bhaktivinode Thakura, Jaiva Dharma, Chapter 15) According to Visnu Purana, Bhagavad-gita and all other Vedic literature's, the living entities are generated from the tatastha energy of the Lord. (Bhag. 3.7.9, purport) The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is confirmed in Brahma-samhita: yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-ananda-koti. ( Bhag. 4.30.5, purport) As spiritual sparks of the beams emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord, we are all permanently related with Him and equal to Him in quality. ( C.c. Madhya-lila 5.22)

It should be understood that the jiva soul is neither produced of this material world, nor created in the transcendental world. They are originated from the marginal line between the transcendental and mundane spheres. ( Tattva Viveka 2.4, by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, page 55) The root of all actions is the desire for acts, the root of which again is avidya. Avidya is the name for the forgetfulness of soul's essential nature that 'I am Krsna's servant.' This avidya did not commence within the course of the mundane time. That root of karma of the jiva arose when he was at the tatastha position. As such, the beginning of karma is not to be traced within mundane time, and, on that account karma is beginningless. ( Jaiva Dharma, pag 234)

So, nitya-siddhas can become nitya-baddha. That is the message we hear. So, really there is no such thing as nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha because nitya-siddhas can fall down and nitya-baddhas can become liberated. Why does shastra even refer to nitya-siddha if the nitya-siddhas are falling down by the billions and rejecting Krishna because they decide they want to give maya a try and reject service to Krishna? All-in-all, it just sounds like a lot of contradictions and talking out both sides of the mouth saying two different things. So, there is no such thing as "siddha" because the siddha can become baddha and the baddha was actually siddha before he became baddha. Is the Hare Krishna philosophy just a confused and they don't really know what they are saying? It appears so. The philosophy is not consistent. It is comprised of contradictions and it appears they are confused what they actually believe and teach. Maybe it is all just just so much confusion and nobody really knows what they are saying? When Krishna says that nitya-siddhas are infallible then he must have been confused. According to his devotees the nitya-siddhas are fallible and falling down like flies by the billions.

so, it appears that "jiva" is the word that means "living entity". But, in this purport Srila Prabhupada says: Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya So, this statement doesn't include liberated nitya-muktas in the category of marginal as marginal in this statement requires to be overwhelmed by ignorance.

When Srila Prabhupada referred to "living entities" was he including Krishna's pure devotees in that designation? Does shastra refer to Krishna's pure devotees as "living entities"?

Actually, the jivas are manifested by the Paramatma feature of Garbhodakashiy Vishnu who is Ksirodakashayi Vishnu - the Supersoul of all living entities in this universe.

According to Srila Prabhupada in Krishna Book, we have not yet had association with Krishna, because he says that if a devotee becomes perfect he gets to take birth in a universe where Krishna's pastimes are being manifest and at that time gets his FIRST OPPORTUNITY to associate with Krishna. Obviously, the statement that "first opportunity" indicates that we have never before had an opportunity to associate with Krishna. As such, there is no possibility of falling from Krishna's service and association if we are still waiting for our "first opportunity" to associate with Krishna in Gokula Vrindavan as it is being manifest in a material universe. If we already have a body in Goloka that is in a coma then we would be able to go straight back to that body. Since we don't already have a body in Goloka as some person is saying, then we have to take birth in Gokula Vrindavan to establish our spiritual relationship with Krishna and attain a spiritual body which we don't presently have at this time. So, there is no going straight back to Goloka and some imaginary spiritual body that some people mistakenly think they have waiting there in a coma to be revived. First, one must go to a universe where the pastimes of Krishna are being manifest and establish his relationship with Krishna after having taken birth from the womb of a gopi. If we had been with Krishna before, then it would be our NEXT OPPORTUNTIY not our FIRST OPPORTUNITY. There is a big difference bewtween FIRST and NEXT.

That is an opinion, but we need shastric support when making claims. Living entities are by-products of the absolute. We are by-products. Nothing very special. Chapter 20: The Goal of Vedānta Study Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya

Srila Prabhupada confirms that marginal energy is spiritual energy covered by ignorance. Since the liberated devotees of the Lord are not covered by ignorance they cannot justly be referred to as "marginal potency". Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya Marginal potency is spiritual potency overwhelmed by ignorance. When spiritual potency is not overwhelmed by ignorance, they why are we referring to it as "marginal potency"?

Or, maybe imitation fire?

true. there is no dreaming in the spiritual world. all dreaming of the conditioned living entities takes place in the material world not in the spiritual world. nobody in the spiritual world is touched by dreaming or illusion. the nonsense proposition that liberated devotees of Krishna get caught in illusion and have material dreams while in Goloka is based on an asinine philosophy that has been manufactured in the mind of a conditioned soul who is having trouble understanding the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. I think his ISKCON guru has forbidden him to read the books of Srila Prabhupada. So, he will never understand things properly. Why he cannot understand that dreaming of the soul happens in the material world and not the spiritual world? Obviously, he is very confused and suffering from a lack of shastric knowledge.

anādi — without beginning; BG 11.19 anādi — beginningless; BG 13.13 anādī — without beginning; BG 13.20 anādi-nidhanam — without beginning and end; SB 1.8.28 anādi — without any beginning; SB 2.6.40-41 anādi — without beginning; SB 2.10.34 anādi-mān — the subtle body (existing since time immemorial); SB 4.29.70 anādi-saṃsāra-anubhavasya — of the perception of the beginningless process of transmigration; SB 5.14.1 anādi — from immemorial; SB 5.25.8 anādi — from time immemorial; SB 5.26.3 anādi — existing since time immemorial; SB 6.5.11 anādi — from time immemorial; SB 8.24.46 anādi — beginningless; SB 10.77.32 anādi — without beginning; SB 11.3.8 anādi — without beginning; SB 11.16.1 anādi — without beginning; SB 11.22.10 anādi — without beginning; SB 12.4.15-19 anādi-anta-vatā — without beginning or end; SB 12.4.37 anādi — who has no beginning; SB 12.6.2 anādi — from time immemorial; SB 12.10.41 anādi — beginningless; SB 12.11.29 anādi — without beginning; SB 12.11.50 anādi — from time immemorial; CC Madhya 20.117

"The one becomes many." Bhagavad-gita 9:7 purport,

If there is no such thing as fallen then why is Mahaprabhu known as "Patita Pavana"? (deliverer of the fallen) Srila Prabhpada and shastra refer to "fallen souls" hundreds of times in his books. Did the fairytale actually make it easier for the fallen souls of western society to accept Krishna? I don't think so. It has created a class of devotees who think they can just wish away their material existence without practicing raganuga bhakti. Krishna Book - Ch. 89 , The Superexcellent Power of Krishna: “”My dear Arjuna, the glaring effulgence, the transcendental light which you are seeing, is My bodily rays. O chief of the descendants of Bharata, this brahmajyoti is Myself.” As the sun disc and the sunshine cannot be separated, similarly Krsna and His bodily rays, the brahmajyoti, cannot be separated. Thus Krsna claimed that the brahmajyoti is He Himself. This is clearly stated in the Harivamsa, when Krsna says, “aham sah.” The brahmajyoti is a combination of the minute particles known as spiritual sparks, or the living entities known as citkana. The Vedic word so’ham, or “I am the brahmajyoti,” can also be applied to the living entities, who can also claim to belong to the brahmajyoti. In the Harivamsa, Krsna further explains, “This brahmajyoti is an expansion of My spiritual energy.” Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati says in the purport to Brahma-samhita 5.16: “The innumerable jivas as spiritual particles emanating from the oversoul in the form of pencils of rays of effulgence, have no relation with the mundane world when they come to know themselves to be the eternal servants of the Supreme Lord. They are then incorporated into the realm of Vaikuntha. But when they desire to lord it over Maya, forgetting their real identity. the egotistic principle Sambhu entering into their entities makes them identify themselves as separated enjoyers of mundane entities.” Srila Prabhupada: “Our Knowledge Is Not Knowledge” Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.03 Bombay, December 15, 1974 “So, so long the sun is there, the sunshine is there. Sunshine means the combination of the bright molecules, molecular part. Similarly, we are parts of the brahmajyoti. Brahmajyoti means combination of unlimited living entities. Svayam-jyotih, it is said. Svayam-jyotir visvam. Svayam-jyotir visvam yena samanvitam. That jyoti is spread all over the universe, all over the universe. So the living entities are there just like sunshine is spread all over the universe. And what is the sunshine? A combination of small bright particles. Similarly, we are also bright, jyoti. And that is realization, aham brahmasmi, that “I am also small particle jyoti, and the Supreme Brahman is also jyoti…” Yasya prabha [bs. 5.40]. And what is this prabha, this prabha, this jyoti? It is Krsna’s bodily rays.” Srila Prabhupada says in Krishna Book: Ch. 20, Description of Autumn; “The brahmajyoti–spiritual effulgence–is just like the sunshine; as the sunshine is full of molecular shining particles, so the brahmajyoti is full of minute portions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Out of that unlimited expansion of minute portions of the Supreme Lord, some are covered by the influence of material nature, whereas others are free.”

the sleepervadi theory is based a serious deviation from Gaudiya siddhanta concerning the infallibility of liberated nitya-siddha devotees of Krishna. It's a false idea. It is an affront to the shastric siddhanta concerning the perfection of the spiritual world. . <!-- End #footer -->

Why don't you stop manufacturing lies and presenting it as Gaudiya siddhanta? Your ideas are just products of your dreaming condition. No devotees of Krishna in Goloka fall down or falls into illusion or falls to the brahmajyoti. You keep insisting they do. You are wrong. You are dreaming. Wake-up sleeping soul. You are sleeping in the lap of the witch called maya. You are not sleeping in Goloka. That is just your misconception that you want everyone else to believe in too.

Wrong, neither one of us have a siddha-deha in Vaikuntha. That idea is just a product of your "dreaming". You say everything in this world is a dream. Well, your misguided notion that you already have a spiritual body in Vaikuntha is just more dreaming on your part. You can't dream yourself into a spiritual body. You have to attain a spiritual body through spiritual perfection which you have not acheived yet. You don't have a spiritual body other than your spiritual body as a spark of light that is a fragment of Krishna's brahmajyoti - the marginal energy. If you have a spiritual body you wouldn't be on the internet espousing bogus philosophy. You would be serving Krishna and enjoying life in Vrindavan. Shastra gives no example of anyone in Vaikuntha as going to sleepervadi land and forgetting they have a spiritual body. That idea is a figment of your imagination. You are a nitya-baddha jiva. You have never been liberated. You have been a conditioned soul eternally. You are a spark of the brahmajyoti that got covered by the Maha-tattva. You have never been anything more that that. You were never playing with Krishna in Goloka. That idea is just another of your many dream fantasies.

Sarva Gattah, Your whole philosophy is based upon your misconception that liberated devotees of Krishna can fall down from Goloka. That is not possible. Shastra does not give even ONE example of a pure devotee falling down from Goloka. Such a claim that Krishna's devotees are falling down or falling into illusion from Goloka is a bogus philosophy. Lord Krishna, shastra and Srila Prabhupada all confirm that liberated devotees are infallible and cannot fall down or fall in illusion. You are trying to manufacture a siddhanta that pure devotees of Krishna fall down from Goloka. They don't. Your philosophy is bogus. It misrepresents Srila Prabhupada, Krishna and the shastra. You should be ashamed of yourself. You preach this asinine philosophy in closely guarded anonymity. You should not be allowed to promote this kind of apasiddhanta on this forum and misguide innocent people who think your ranting is Gaudiya siddhanta. It is NOT Gaudiya siddhanta. It is an ISKCON fairytale that has been manufactured out of misrepresenting the words of Srila Prabhupada. Before ISKCON, no Gaudiya sampradaya ever advocated or preached such an asinine philosophy as the fall-from-goloka sleepvadi nonsense that you have proliferated all over the internet under at least a half dozen false identities meant for hiding your true identity. Such is the works of a misguided scoundrel.

Interesting. I never before ever considered that a fire can have a shadow. Fire, by it's quality of being luminous cannot really have a shadow. ISKCON is a shadow alright, but not a shadow of fire. It is a shadow created by the blockage of light. ISKCON is a shadow due to the absence of fire. Fire cannot have a shadow. ISKCON is an imitation fire created by smoke and mirrors. Mirrors reflect fire but are not fire. The light in the mirror is not real fire. If you could cut through all the smoke and mirrors of ISKCON you would find that the fire of ISKCON got extinguished by the water of guru aparadha. Glow worms have replaced the Sun of ISKCON (Srila Prabhupada) and proclaimed themselves as the source of light.