Rtvik is just for those who think that Prabhupada is no longer with us, also so called "living rubber stamped gurus"

Oh! Prabhupada is here, gotta get back to him

They are just flipsides of the same coin who occupy themselves with arguing over who is the head and who is the tail.

Exactly!

But the jokers that are the 'ritviks' will tell us that we can;t get connected without them. Like they hold a patent or something. Just power hungry but lame ducks, the ritviks are.

The ritviks are just a freaking disturbance. We don't need them to get connected to Srila Prabhupada.

ok Mr. Big Mouth.

Please post a quote from one ritvik that has ever said that.

I know you won't because you can't because you are in fact a liar that is spreading false propaganda because you have an agenda.

get a life loser..........

If you can't think of anything better to do than tell lies on the internet, then maybe you should get another hobby?

OK, so you're saying that we don't need ritviks to get connected to Srila Prabhupada? If so, I agree and will revoke what I said.

Let's see.

my opinion doesn't matter.
we go by what the acharyas have given.

the Saraswata parampara is a siksha-guru parampara........

do your own homework and don't come on the forum making outragious claims based upon your own misconceptions and accusing others falsely because you don't know what you are talking about.

Well, it's now clear that you belive the ritviks are necessary for the
connection.

But sorry, I don't need the freelancing ritvik agents, I can get the connection to Srila Prabhupada in other ways. No freelancers please!

Srila Prabhupada set up the ritvik system.
How can you claim to be his disciple if you haven't followed his ritvik system?

If anybody can be a disciple without formal initiation then why did he create a ritvik system?

Srila Prabhupada established an authorized system for becoming his formally initiatiated disciple.

If you don't accept that system then you don't accept Srila Prabhupada.

Disciples had to meet certain standards and requirements.
If you don't meet the requirements then you aren't a disciple.

No one needs a ritvik or Iskcon to fullfill those requirements. Both camps have made themselves irrelevant. A charge which really bites them to their core as they both consider themselves so vital and indespensable to the process of connecting up to Srila Prabhupada.

Hey, I didn't establish the ritvik system, Srila Prabhupada did.

I know you think the whole idea is stupid.

But, if it was stupid I don't think Srila Prabhupada would have bothered with it.

You can manufacture your own process if you like.
But, I think Srila Prabhupada's system is better than yours.

You still can't see outside of your iskcon box. The thing you don't understand is that Srila Prabhupada does not exist only in your little box. He exists in his instructions on how to reach Krsna.

fine and dandy...
but to be a formally initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada is not up to your whim.
Srila Prabhupada put a system in place for those who wanted formal initiation from Srila Prabhupada. It was called the "ritvik system".

Nobody is twisting your arm to accept it.

But, Srila Prabhupada authorized it whether you like it or not.

Frankly, we could care less about your little opinion.

We are concerned with what Srila Prabhupada gave, not what your personal whims are.

He didn't start a ritvik system designed to last ten thousand years, this is the speculation of Mr. Desai. He was toward "the fag end of his life" and wanted help conducting initiations, so he used 11 men to help him do this, this is called "ritvik" initiation. He wrote a note that henceforward these men will be conducting the initiations or whatever.
The men who were present understood the situation. They knew it was temporary and that Srila Prabhupada was still present and was the guru and they were just helping him with this process of initiation this way.
Along comes Mr. Desai twenty some odd years later and he sees this letter and comes to his own conclusion, without consulting the sadhus. The sadhus all say "this is what Prabhupada wanted, gurus, not ritvik gurus" and they quote Prabhupada and sastra. Guru, sadhu and sastra, all are in agreement. But Mr. Desai says, "No, I reject sadhu advice. The Prabhupada disciples who were personally there are ALL wrong! Each and every one of them practically. I can tell by my own highly advanced intellect that they have not understood Prabhupada because I am a sadhu and I read Prabhupada's books and they are sastra so I have my own system of guru, sadhu and sastra. In fact he even rejects the current gurus who are around and doesn't read sastra in the company of sadhus so he misunderstands all three, rejecting guru sadhu and sastra. And his followers bash Back to Prabhupada magazines instead of Bibles much in the same way as fanatical so-called Christians who don't have any philosophy. Srila Prabhupada said religion without philosophy is mental speculation or fanaticism. This pretty much sums up Desai and the revivalists.
Go ahead and follow them guruvani, but don't claim to be in ISKCON. ISKCON will never be fooled by such cheaters and offenders.

Who is "we"? You and your other multiples that you share that body with?

the problem with your theory is that Srila Prabhupada already had a system in place for initiating discples that had been going on for several years in ISKCON. There was no need for Srila Prabhupada to change that in his last days. The system was already working for several years.

Srila Prabhupada appointed the ritviks when the GBC deputed Satsvarupa das Goswami to inquite from Srila Prabhupada how initiations would go on after his passing.

So, when the GBC inquired how initiations would go on after the passing of Srila Prabhupada the answer was "ritvik".

The time line for how long it finally took devotees to sort out the mess and the confusions that these 11 created with the zonal guru system is not the question.

Krishnakant desai was not some founder of the ritvik movement.
There were many devotees who accepted the ritvik system long before Krishnakant desai was anybody.

Senior disciples like Hansadutta, Yashodanandan and hundreds of disciples of Srila Prabhupada accept the ritvik system.

So, you have a very shallow understanding of the history of ISKCON and the ritvik system.

Obviously, you are not informed enough to make the wise decision and have been duped by unauthorized gurus who are acting without sanction.

we, the thousands of ritvik proponents on planet Earth.

It's as I thought. Formal diksa requirement has been and always will be the disturbance that tears apart every vaisnava group and math.
It is a disturbance because a bona fide acarya does not always appear.
So many quotes have shown formal diksa not to be an absolute requirement.
Therefore ritviks are not.

And the interesting thing is Guruvani has been one of those to show formal diksa is not mandatory. In any case those instructions of Srila Prabhupada were iskcon specific but the iskcon institution is far too small to encapsulate the Absolute.

Also there is no need for anyone to claim to be a disciple of Srila Prabhupada or any other representitive of Krsna. But it is an imperative that we all learn to take up the discipline that they prescribe to humanity. The way we live our lives both externally and internally will determine who is a disciple, a parttime follower, a general wellwisher or whatever. This is what the Lord will recognize. There is absolutely no need for our mouths to make declarations to others about our being disciples of this person or that. We must speak with our actions.

I agree.

Really it seems that everyone just wants to do what they want. Because they don't want to answer to any higher authority they simply claim to be under the guidance and shelter of a Guru that is no longer physically present. Thus, they are allotted their own minute jaivik independence. It's another form of maya in my humble opinion. Real spiritual advancement comes from being under the direct shelter of a living devotee of the lord. To think that you will make genuine advancement without being under a living Guru of some group or another and instead choosing to follow the ritvik ideology is just another form of MAYA.

Such a shame things are turning out like this. ISKCON could be fine, it just needs the guidance of a pure devotee. If ISKCON let another pure devotee manage ISKCON then this mess wouldn't be there to begin with. You need association, that is the main thing. If your ego is so big that you think you can understand srila prabhupadas books, then go ahead, but really without a guru who is truly tadatmik with srila prabhupada you won't be going anywhere