ISKCON guru chastised and disciplined!

[Guruvani 0]

 

and you have a Krsna-truthometer that you applied to Prabhupada and got 100% while Narayana Maharaja got 65%? LOL!

 

THIS IS A MATTER SETTLED ONLY BY THE FAITH OF A PROSPECTIVE DISCIPLE

 

Yet, NOBODY can say: "From this day forward you will only have my vritviks, because no-one will know Lord Krsna in truth by following the process I'm giving you"

 

Do you realize how utterly ABSURD the ritvik system is in that context?

 

Probably not, because you fell for it the first time.

I don't remember Srila Prabhupada saying that the qualification for being ritvik was that one had to be unqualified?

 

You people are the ones that say that a ritvik is unqualified.

 

How can one represent the acharya and be unqualified?

 

It's not our business to question why Srila Prabhupada instituted his ritvik system.

It's just our concern that his instructions are followed.

 

Qualified or unqualified is not the issue.

 

The order of the acharya must be followed by those who claim to be his disciples.

 

He appointed 11 ritviks.

If you insist that they are unqualified, then that is your idea.

 

Srila Prabhupada never said that a ritvik was a lesser Vaishnava - you did!

 

In ISKCON the ritvik is the representative of the acharya.

How is that a position for an unqualified person?

[Guest guest]

 

I don't remember Srila Prabhupada saying that the qualification for being ritvik was that one had to be unqualified?

 

Qualified for what precisely?

 

If one knows Krsna in truth he is fit to be a GURU. Period! That is the verdict of Mahaprabhu and nobody can prevent qualified devotees from becoming gurus if they know Krsna in truth. srila Prabhupada said the same thing as well.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Qualified for what precisely?

 

If one knows Krsna in truth he is fit to be a GURU. Period! That is the verdict of Mahaprabhu and nobody can prevent qualified devotees from becoming gurus if they know Krsna in truth. srila Prabhupada said the same thing as well.

 

a ritvik is a guru.

All Vaishnavas are guru.

 

Why should a ritvik be considered non-guru?

 

The ritvik is showing one the way to serve the acharya.

That is a guru.

 

A ritvik is a guru who initiated on behalf of the acharya.

 

Ritviks don't come from the 7-11 store.

[Guest guest]

 

a ritvik is a guru.

All Vaishnavas are guru.

 

Why should a ritvik be considered non-guru?

 

The ritvik is showing one the way to serve the acharya.

That is a guru.

 

A ritvik is a guru who initiated on behalf of the acharya.

 

 

Mahaprabhu says: sei 'guru' haya, not: sei 'ritvik' haya. You dont think he was qualified to make all subsequent spiritual masters into his ritviks?

 

Your ritvik theory is bogus from top to bottom.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Mahaprabhu says: sei 'guru' haya, not: sei 'ritvik' haya. You dont think he was qualified to make all subsequent spiritual masters into his ritviks?

 

Your ritvik theory is bogus from top to bottom.

A ritvik is a guru.

 

Can a non-guru initiate devotees on behalf of the acharya.

 

Ritviks are Vaishnavas.

Who can initiate on behalf of the acharya? a demon?

 

Your tradition is bogus from top to bottom, so why do you keep pretending it is anything except an empty formality?

 

You don't know what Mahaprabhu wants.

That is for the acharyas to decide, not you.

[Guest guest]

A ritvik is a guru?! ROFL!!! What next ... bring it on quickly please.

 

So you go from making ritvik a 'representative' to 'guru' and soon you'll say he is as good as Krishna Himself! The amusement is incredible!

 

 

A ritvik is a guru.

 

Can a non-guru initiate devotees on behalf of the acharya.

 

Ritviks are Vaishnavas.

Who can initiate on behalf of the acharya? a demon?

 

Your tradition is bogus from top to bottom, so why do you keep pretending it is anything except an empty formality?

 

You don't know what Mahaprabhu wants.

That is for the acharyas to decide, not you.

[Guest guest]

 

Your tradition is bogus from top to bottom, so why do you keep pretending it is anything except an empty formality?

 

That so called "empty formality" was good enough for Lord Caitanya, Bhaktisiddhanta, and Prabhupada, and it is good enough for me.

 

If anything, it is precisely the ritvik idea which is only an empty formality. That is what it was when Prabhupada was still here, isn't it? Ritviks are mere surrogates of the "real McCoy".

 

Empty formality like a tape played diksa mantra.

[Guruvani 0]

 

A ritvik is a guru?! ROFL!!! What next ... bring it on quickly please.

 

So you go from making ritvik a 'representative' to 'guru' and soon you'll say he is as good as Krishna Himself! The amusement is incredible!

So, the representatives of the acharya are what?

 

If you know the Gaudiya siddhanta you would know that all Vaishnavas are gurus.

That doesn't exclude ritviks of the acharya.

 

An ISKCON ritvik is the representative of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Who can represent Srila Prabhupada besides a guru?

 

Sridhar Maharaja said Govinda Maharaja was acharya and ritvik both.

So, you can't be a ritvik unless you are an acharya.

[Guest guest]

I'm an ISKCON person but H.H. Narayana Maharaja is as good as any other Acarya in our Sampradaya.

 

It's quite simple really ... he is presenting the exact same teachings his predecessors did and that is in itself good enough to make him a qualified Acarya. But of course, he has numerous other extra ordinary qualities.

 

The ritviks are bogus and a confused lot because of the bogus systems they are inventing. Unless they give up their egoistic and 'envious of Vaisnavas' nature, there is little hope for those fools.

 

 

and you have a Krsna-truthometer that you applied to Prabhupada and got 100% while Narayana Maharaja got 65%? LOL!

 

THIS IS A MATTER SETTLED ONLY BY THE FAITH OF A PROSPECTIVE DISCIPLE

 

Yet, NOBODY can say: "From this day forward you will only have my vritviks, because no-one will know Lord Krsna in truth by following the process I'm giving you"

 

Do you realize how utterly ABSURD the ritvik system is in that context?

 

Probably not, because you fell for it the first time.

[Guest guest]

This is just your mundane speculation. It's not Gaudiya sidhanta.

 

 

So, the representatives of the acharya are what?

 

If you know the Gaudiya siddhanta you would know that all Vaishnavas are gurus.

That doesn't exclude ritviks of the acharya.

 

An ISKCON ritvik is the representative of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Who can represent Srila Prabhupada besides a guru?

 

Sridhar Maharaja said Govinda Maharaja was acharya and ritvik both.

So, you can't be a ritvik unless you are an acharya.

[Guruvani 0]

 

I'm an ISKCON person but H.H. Narayana Maharaja is as good as any other Acarya in our Sampradaya.

 

It's quite simple really ... he is presenting the exact same teachings his predecessors did and that is in itself good enough to make him a qualified Acarya. But of course, he has numerous other extra ordinary qualities.

 

The ritviks are bogus and a confused lot because of the bogus systems they are inventing. Unless they give up their egoistic and 'envious of Vaisnavas' nature, there is little hope for those fools.

You don't have the right or authority to say ritvik is bogus.

 

 

Narayana Maharaja has proclaimed himself as a madhyama-adhikari AT BEST.

So, if we accept his own words then he is not as good as the Gaudiya Acharyas because the Gaudiya acharyas were UTTAMA ADHIKARI.

 

If Narayana Maharaja has declared himself as Madhyama-adhikari then he is just a sadhaka and not a siddha like Srila Prabhupada.

 

I'll take him for his word that he is just a aspiring madhyama-adhikari trying to practice sadhana.

[Guruvani 0]

 

This is just your mundane speculation. It's not Gaudiya sidhanta.

It's Gaudiya siddhanta if an acharya like Sridhar Maharaja says it is.

 

Sridhar Maharaja referred to Govinda Maharaja as an acharya and a ritvik in the same breath.

 

That makes it siddhanta.

 

You can't decide what is siddhanta and what isn't.

That is for the self-realized acharyas to decide - not you.

[Guest guest]

 

I'm an ISKCON person but H.H. Narayana Maharaja is as good as any other Acarya in our Sampradaya.

 

It's quite simple really ... he is presenting the exact same teachings his predecessors did and that is in itself good enough to make him a qualified Acarya.

 

Yes, by all standards he is certainly one of the sampradaya acharyas in our Saraswata Sampradaya.

[Guruvani 0]

 

You're a fool

And you are the mighty genius of Gaudiya siddhanta?

 

Narayana Maharaja said he was a madhyama-adhikari.

 

do you think he was telling a lie?

 

Is he a liar?

[Guest guest]

Srila Narottam Das thakur said he was most fallen.

 

do you think he was telling a lie? Is he a liar?

 

 

And you are the mighty genius of Gaudiya siddhanta?

 

Narayana Maharaja said he was a madhyama-adhikari.

 

do you think he was telling a lie?

 

Is he a liar?

[Guruvani 0]

But, I try to deal in facts not opinions.

the fact is that Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada both used the ritvik system.

You say it is bogus.

that is just your opinion.

 

I have facts that Srila Prabhupada and Sridhar Maharaja both used ritvik systems.

 

So, if anything is bogus I would say it is your OPINION.

 

(but, I still love you)

[Guest guest]

Absolutely, without question.

 

<B>All glories to H.H. Srila Narayana Maharaja and all other current day Acaryas for keeping the light of Gaudiya Vaisnavism shining in the west!</B>

 

 

Yes, by all standards he is certainly one of the sampradaya acharyas in our Saraswata Sampradaya.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Absolutely, without question.

 

All glories to H.H. Srila Narayana Maharaja and all other current day Acaryas for keeping the light of Gaudiya Vaisnavism shining in the west!

Gaudiya Vaishnavism shining in the west is about as bright as a birthday candle in a coal mine.

 

The west needs a lot more illumination than is currently being generated by the defunct Hare Krishna movement.

 

The lights went out when Srila Prabhupada left and they haven't come back on since.

 

Now, all we have are some lightening bugs in the night.

 

We need the Sun to come back up.

[Guest guest]

That's why the West must be grateful for the fact that they can turn to Srila Narayana Maharaja and other Acaryas who are spreading Lord Caitanya's glories far and wide.

 

Only fools can think that The Holy Name can only be propogated by one society.

 

 

Gaudiya Vaishnavism shining in the west is about as bright as a birthday candle in a coal mine.

 

The west needs a lot more illumination than is currently being generated by the defunct Hare Krishna movement.

 

The lights went out when Srila Prabhupada left and they haven't come back on since.

 

Now, all we have are some lightening bugs in the night.

 

We need the Sun to come back up.

[Guruvani 0]

 

That's why the West must be grateful for the fact that they can turn to Srila Narayana Maharaja and other Acaryas who are spreading Lord Caitanya's glories far and wide.

 

Only fools can think that The Holy Name can only be propogated by one society.

 

But Narayana Maharaja just initiates a lot of devotees, though he is not doing anything to provide for their ongoing support.

He has no temples and no structure and just dumps disciples back into society with nothing.

 

I don't see that as any kind of success formula.

It looks to me like a cheating process.

 

Srila Prabhupada arranged for temples and ashrams for his disciples.

Narayan Maharaja just bops around the world initiating people without any kind of support structure.

 

That is not preaching as far as I am concerned.

 

It's not about "society" it's about the association of devotees.

Narayan Maharaja is not doing anything to develop any temples or ashrams.

 

Initiating disciples without providing for temples and ashrams is a scam in my book.

 

I guess he is just banking on ISKCON to someday absord all his people, but I don't think that will ever happen.

 

He is leaving behind a movement without any foundation.

It's built on a wish and a prayer.

 

Srila Prabhupada didn't operate like that.

[Guest guest]

 

He is leaving behind a movement without any foundation.

It's built on a wish and a prayer.

 

Srila Prabhupada didn't operate like that.

 

Srila Prabhupada's organisation was at times mired in very, very serious troubles, with gangs of ambitious materialists running things mob style in some places. In the end it ruined the material and spiritual lives of countless devotees. and it is not out of the woods yet by any stretch of imagination.

 

I'm not sure which is worse.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Srila Prabhupada's organisation was at times mired in very, very serious troubles, with gangs of ambitious materialists running things mob style in some places. In the end it ruined the material and spiritual lives of countless devotees. and it is not out of the woods yet by any stretch of imagination.

 

I'm not sure which is worse.

 

but, if it weren't for ISKCON and it's thugs Narayana Maharaja wouldn't be jagat-guru now.

so, Narayana Maharaja owes ISKCON and it's thugs a big debt of gratitude.

 

I think in the process of spreading Krishna consciousness around the whole world, ISKCON had relatively little scandal and controversy.

 

The bell-ringers in India certainly couldn't accomplish anything.

 

ISKCON succeeded beyond measure.

 

A handful of men created a BIG scandal.

The majority if ISKCON devotees were good folks.

 

Narayana Maharaja became jagat guru off of some remnants of ISKCON.

 

so, ISKCON is the best.

[theist 1]

 

Ah!

 

Another day in the pursuit of Krishna Consciousness engaged in the same "transcendental debates" that have been going on for years and years and years.... Sorry, just kidding around. No offense meant to Krishna, His devotees or any of His acaryas.

 

Ritvik YES! Ritvik NO! Ritvik Yes! Ritvik NO! Ritvik Yes! Ritvik NO!

[theist 1]

Listen up! July 9! Listen up! July 9! Listen up! July 9!

[theist 1]

The GBC ecclesiatical trick...."Look there is guru".