Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2003 i haven't ... nearest i've been is LA ... and only there for an hour or three... (after a couple of days in SF)... has anyone seen or heard from mavreela? no one seems to mention him either... it's as if he never existed... like we're in some weird actualisation of Dark City ... wendy shapiro [wendyzshapiro] Hi Oliver, If you don't mind me asking, have you been to Mexico? W xx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2003 " Oliver Slay " <oliver@l...> wrote: > quite the same in les Corbieres... a farmer told me his friend was a vegetarian and he ate chicken ... and there must be something wrong with me ... can't be a man if you don't eat meat ... must have threatened his worldview a little ... --it's highly probable. the (French) omnivorous think that meat is RED meat (beef), so when you say that you don't eat meat, they understand that you eat chicken, fish, seafood... so when you say you are vegan, you are an extraterrestrial person!!! " it's so dangerous, you may die, you know, or at least become sick!!! " is the kind of thing I hear very often... even from my friends studying scinces! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2003 Mavreela who? has anyone seen or heard from mavreela? no one seems to mention him either... it's as if he never existed... like we're in some weird actualisation of Dark City ... --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release 10/06/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release 10/06/2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2003 Then they are thick liars . Someone should give them a dictionary Camille ROSIER [veganispretty] 19 June 2003 15:09 Re: new member " Oliver Slay " <oliver@l...> wrote: > quite the same in les Corbieres... a farmer told me his friend was a vegetarian and he ate chicken ... and there must be something wrong with me ... can't be a man if you don't eat meat ... must have threatened his worldview a little ... --it's highly probable. the (French) omnivorous think that meat is RED meat (beef), so when you say that you don't eat meat, they understand that you eat chicken, fish, seafood... so when you say you are vegan, you are an extraterrestrial person!!! " it's so dangerous, you may die, you know, or at least become sick!!! " is the kind of thing I hear very often... even from my friends studying scinces! ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 19, 2003 I teach Science I became a vegan at 18 and was told by my mum that I would die! However ,I have been doing the experiment for many years now -I am 55-and I am not dead yet. I have 4 vegan sons also very much alive and I didn't need iron tablets in pregnancy unlike my animal eating friends. Lets face it we know since we are eating the vegan diet. How can they know anything. They are ignorant yet have the audacity to tell us our diet is not good enough! Meanwhile their diet is giving them all sorts of ailments and cancer ---serves them right for being so arrogant (and cruel) Camille ROSIER [veganispretty] 19 June 2003 15:09 Re: new member --it's highly probable. the (French) omnivorous think that meat is RED meat (beef), so when you say that you don't eat meat, they understand that you eat chicken, fish, seafood... so when you say you are vegan, you are an extraterrestrial person!!! " it's so dangerous, you may die, you know, or at least become sick!!! " is the kind of thing I hear very often... even from my friends studying scinces! ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2003 Hi Jak , Welcome to the group Angie !!! -----Original Message----- Jak [jak.remec] 30 July 2003 09:52 New member Thought I'd pop in and say hi. My name's Jak and I've been vegan for 11 years. I'm pleased to find a vegan group based in the UK. I have a question which I'll ask in another email. Jak ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release 18/07/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release 18/07/2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2003 thanks for the welcome Angie Jak - Angie Wright Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:38 PM RE: New member Hi Jak , Welcome to the group Angie !!! Jak [jak.remec] 30 July 2003 09:52 Subject: New member Thought I'd pop in and say hi. My name's Jak and I've been vegan for 11 years. I'm pleased to find a vegan group based in the UK. I have a question which I'll ask in another email. Jak ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2003 My son who 4 is also autisic and I tryed the gluten and casien free diet, didn't work because he starved himself for 3 days. My son doesn't eat anything except cheese and bread type foodsm nothing else. Have to do another approach. He has a doctor that is working with us and he has a website you can check out. gnd.org this doctor treats children who have autism all over the world and they know all the ins ad outs of the diet. I beleive there is a menu guide you can access on the website. Good luck Suzanne --- Nyree Krikorian <nyree wrote: > Hi, > > I started my 32-month-old son (who's always been > mostly vegan) last > Wednesday on gluten and soy free diet. I say > " mostly " because he's had > shrimp once in a while. I was waiting to find all > the " answers " on how I > could do this and remain vegan, but he was getting > worse. He has Autism > (which is why we're giving this diet a try). We > were using a lot of " fake > meats " before which I learned have tons of gluten in > them. So, > unfortunately, I didn't know what else to do for > protein for fast meals, so > I got him free-range organic chicken. He also ate > some halibut. > > So, what do you do for protein? Is there a place I > could go (a website or a > book) that could give me some additional ideas? He > doesn't like any beans. > I think I was able to give him red lentils once, > which I'm planning on > making tomorrow. > > Thanks, > Nyree > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2003 Suzanne I know it's hard to watch you child refuse to eat and you have to do what's right for your family, but many many austistic children who do benefit from the GFCF diet do that at the beginning because they are addicted to the drug produced in the brain by ingesting those foods. It would probably surprise you how many mothers say exactly the same thing. All he eats is bread and cheese. That's a good indicator that he has a problem with them. But like I said, you have to do what you think is right for your family. Have you had your son tested for systemic candidis? BL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What does Yhwh Elohim require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and To walk humbly with your Elohim. Baruch haba b'shem Adonai hahcim (Micah) 6:8 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2003 We are doing the testes now and just waiting for the results. I plan on making him gluten free just trying to make it possible in already chaoic atmosphere. I " m beyond stressed out with other things that I don't want to create more with my child. The casien is not hard to remove but the gluten is impossible at this point, and I agree I think he is addicted to it. My son eats no meat, no veggies and no fruit and I'm not sure how he has survived this long.. LOL! Anyway when I first tryed the diet I was without the doctor but now that I do hopefully I can do this the right way. Suzanne --- Keith & Brenda-Lee Olson <kolson99 wrote: > Suzanne > > I know it's hard to watch you child refuse to eat > and you have to do what's right for your family, but > many many austistic children who do benefit from the > GFCF diet do that at the beginning because they are > addicted to the drug produced in the brain by > ingesting those foods. It would probably surprise > you how many mothers say exactly the same thing. > All he eats is bread and cheese. That's a good > indicator that he has a problem with them. > > But like I said, you have to do what you think is > right for your family. Have you had your son tested > for systemic candidis? > > BL > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > What does Yhwh Elohim require of you? > To act justly > and to love mercy > and To walk humbly with your Elohim. > > Baruch haba b'shem Adonai > > hahcim (Micah) 6:8 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2003 I don't know a lot about autistic children but I have to wonder if this child would actually starve in the presence of healthful food if he was deprived of the bread and cheese and only offered things which are gluten and dairy free. Maybe he is more stubborn than Mom. It is not in the nature of living creatures to refuse to eat when true hunger sets in which may take more than two days. Limiting a child to things which can only build health is not cruel and it is a fact that we can go weeks without food as long as plenty of water is available. - Keith & Brenda-Lee Olson Sunday, September 07, 2003 12:00 PM Re: new member Suzanne I know it's hard to watch you child refuse to eat and you have to do what's right for your family, but many many austistic children who do benefit from the GFCF diet do that at the beginning because they are addicted to the drug produced in the brain by ingesting those foods. It would probably surprise you how many mothers say exactly the same thing. All he eats is bread and cheese. That's a good indicator that he has a problem with them. But like I said, you have to do what you think is right for your family. Have you had your son tested for systemic candidis? BL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What does Yhwh Elohim require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and To walk humbly with your Elohim. Baruch haba b'shem Adonai hahcim (Micah) 6:8 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 7, 2003 a lot of my son's eating issues is sensory, he can't stand the touch of certain textures. He will not use a spoon or fork to eat with. During his starvation days he was offered a variety of foods.He doesn't eat much dairy, he actually likes tofu and soy ice cream. I think in some ways he is more stubborn than mom. But since he is non-verbal and has other issues, I have to decide which goal is the most important. Can't do it all at once, its impossible, plus with autism once one goal is completed something else pop's up that needs to be dealt with. Its a never ending journey :-) --- SYLVIA TERRY <samzco34 wrote: > I don't know a lot about autistic children but I > have to wonder if this child would actually starve > in the presence of healthful food if he was > deprived of the bread and cheese and only offered > things which are gluten and dairy free. Maybe he is > more stubborn than Mom. It is not in the nature of > living creatures to refuse to eat when true hunger > sets in which may take more than two days. Limiting > a child to things which can only build health is not > cruel and it is a fact that we can go weeks without > food as long as plenty of water is available. > - > Keith & Brenda-Lee Olson > > Sunday, September 07, 2003 12:00 PM > Re: new member > > > Suzanne > > I know it's hard to watch you child refuse to eat > and you have to do what's right for your family, but > many many austistic children who do benefit from the > GFCF diet do that at the beginning because they are > addicted to the drug produced in the brain by > ingesting those foods. It would probably surprise > you how many mothers say exactly the same thing. > All he eats is bread and cheese. That's a good > indicator that he has a problem with them. > > But like I said, you have to do what you think is > right for your family. Have you had your son tested > for systemic candidis? > > BL > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > What does Yhwh Elohim require of you? > To act justly > and to love mercy > and To walk humbly with your Elohim. > > Baruch haba b'shem Adonai > > hahcim (Micah) 6:8 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 23, 2003 hey, if your worried about health risks and nutrition in any vegetarian or vegan lifestyle and want medical proof that it actually greatens health for regular people to the sickly, go here www.pcrm.org its a whole bunch of doctors that have done clinical research on how healthy and powerful the vegie/vegan diet is check out the section "health" then click on information on vegetarian diets, itll sure help your decisions in the future Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 23, 2003 Hi Maggie and WELCOME! CONGRATS on yer decision to go veggie! Two books I highly recommend is Jon Robbin's " Diet For A New America " and another is " The Vegan Sourcebook " (cannot remember the authors name right now to save my life). Or even go to the library and look up vegetarian/vegan. You should find somewonderful resources there. The Vegan Sourcebook helped me out a lot because it listed the nutrients that the human body needs daily and wonderful ways for you to get it. It also has a lot of great recipes in it as well. I've also included below some info I got (maybe from this group??) on kids and vegetarian dites. It has helped me a lot with my 5 year old son. Unfortunately, my DH is still a carnivore and so is my son. But slowly they are experiencing new foods with me and do eat a lot of soy products with me now. But I think the house would have to burn down before either of them would allow something green to pass their lips. *sigh* tis a shame, guess I have to eat all of the brocolli Oh darn! A great website for recipes and info is www.vegweb.com or you can wait fer Fraggle to get back to the group and pound us with some of his. Hope this helps! nikki Everything alive is sacred; life delights in life. William Blake Article on kids and veggie diets: http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? AID=/20030903/NEWS/309030303/1004 Influenced by family or on their own, many young people turn to veggie diet By Meredith Cummings NYT Regional Newspapers TIPS FOR PARENTS The American Dietetic Association offers parents the following practical advice for helping vegetarian children meet their nutritional needs in healthful and tasty ways: * Calories and fat: Vegetarian children's diets sometimes tend to be high in fiber, filling their stomachs but making it difficult for them to consume the levels of energy they need. Avocados, nuts, seeds, dried fruits and soy products provide concentrated sources of calories. * Protein: Protein needs generally can be met by eating a variety of plant foods and having an adequate intake of calories. Foods high in protein include legumes, grains, soy products, nuts, dairy products and eggs. Grains such as rice, pasta, breads and cereals also provide protein. * Calcium: Good sources of calcium, especially for vegans, include calcium-fortified soy and rice milks and orange juice, tofu and dark green leafy vegetables. * Vitamin D: Children regularly exposed to appropriate levels of sunlight - 20 to 30 minutes per day on the hands and face, two to three times per week - apparently have no dietary requirement for vitamin D. Children with darker skin or who have limited exposure to sunlight may require vitamin supplements. Dietary sources of vitamin D include fortified cow's milk, some brands of soy or rice milk and most dry cereals. * Iron: Iron-deficiency anemia is the most common childhood nutritional problem, but it's no more likely to occur in vegetarian children than non-vegetarians. Good sources of iron include whole or enriched grains, iron-fortified cereals, legumes, green leafy vegetables and dried fruits. * Vitamin B12: Vegan children should eat foods fortified with vitamin B12, including fortified soy milk, fortified nutritional yeast and some breakfast cereals. * Zinc: Sources include legumes, hard cheeses, whole grain products, wheat germ, nuts and tofu. * * * Of course, children being children - vegetarian or not - means they can be picky eaters. To try to overcome this natural tendency, ADA offers some recommendations: * Offer choices of foods: Letting the child make some decisions can increase the acceptance of foods. * Make foods fun: Make pancakes in different shapes or with faces made from fruit, offer vegetables and dips, hide small pieces of fruit in yogurt. * Set a good example: Let children see you eating healthy foods. * Involve the child in food preparation: Young toddlers can tear up lettuce and put pieces of vegetables into a pot. Older preschoolers can wash vegetables, stir a fruit salad and help measure dry ingredients. * Keep mealtimes pleasant: Don't force a child to eat or use food as a reward. Try to stay calm about food refusals. - American Dietetic Association, 1998 Kara and Erik Hestevold put their plates forward for slices of chocolate cream pie. Not a bad way to wrap up a recent meal for the Hestevold children and their parents, Scott and Nita. But this pie was not ordinary. Its secret ingredient was tofu - whipped into a froth and mixed with chocolate. That may sound unappetizing to some, but it appeals to 9- year-old Kara and 14-year-old Erik. The Hestevolds are raising their children as vegetarians. About 1 million children ages 6 to 17 are vegetarians, according to the Vegetarian Resource Group, a nonprofit organization based in Baltimore. Vegetarians do not eat meat, fish or fowl. Vegans do not eat meat, fish or fowl and do not use other animal products such as dairy or eggs. Erik and Kara said they are sometimes teased, but that it's not as bad as it once was. They take their lunches to school each day and deal with offerings at birthday parties and other social events. " My true friends don't bug me about it,'' Erik said. " But then, some people will say things like, 'Do you take protein pills?' I've never heard of a protein pill. The closest thing to a protein pill is a bean.'' Books such as " Raising Vegetarian Children'' and " Cooking with Herb, the Vegetarian Dragon - A Cookbook for Kids'' sit in the Hestevolds' kitchen, showing how this Tuscaloosa family differs from neighbors who prefer the meat-and-veggies staples of the South. The Hestevold parents both ate meat for years before becoming vegetarians for moral reasons. Experts say that a well-planned vegetarian diet can be a healthy alternative to standard meat-based menus for all age groups. That includes during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and adolescence, the group said in a statement published in the June issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. A representative of the American Academy of Pediatrics concurred. " We agree that vegetarianism, especially the vegetarianism that does not eliminate milk, eggs and so on, is compatible with the normal dietary intake of a child and an adolescent,'' said Dr. Fima Lifshitz, director of pediatrics and a senior nutrition scientist at the Sansum Medical Research Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif. Lifshitz, however, cautions that more extreme - James Beard's " Beard on Pasta'' diets, such as those that eliminate all animal products, can be dangerous if not managed correctly. There have been well-publicized cases of malnutrition in children with restrictive diets. Parents say the challenges of raising vegetarian children change over time, but most agree that one issue is contending with other people. Whether it's in-laws who don't agree with parents' choices or helping children handle teasing or peer pressure, parental duties can be difficult. " Teaching our kids to navigate in a world which is so fundamentally different from what we believe is right as far as nutrition and animal welfare is sometimes difficult,'' said Melanie Wilson, publisher of Vegetarian Baby and Child Magazine and Vegetarianteen.com Online Magazine. She has two daughters who are vegans, ages 5 and 18 months. Parents who are thinking of raising children as vegetarians - or switching to vegetarianism - must do research, said Reed Mangels, nutrition adviser for the Vegetarian Resource Group. For the first six or seven months of life, a vegetarian or vegan baby's diet should not differ from that of a nonvegetarian. But once the time comes when meat would normally be introduced to the baby, parents need to find alternative sources of protein, such as yogurt, cottage cheese, soy and dry beans. Mangels, an author of books on vegetarianism, said some parents mistakenly try to make their own baby formula. If a vegetarian baby cannot be breast-fed, she said, always buy formula from the store. " Breast-feeding is the very best way to go whether you're vegetarian or not,'' Mangels said. " If that's not possible, then infant formula is the only other choice. I think that's important because, sometimes, a vegetarian will say, 'Oh, I drink soy milk so it must be OK for my baby,' but that won't work for the baby.'' The Hestevolds' decision to raise their children as vegetarians was a natural one since they are vegetarians. But some families decide to switch to vegetarianism when their children are older. Making the switch takes time, but children adapt easily and can soon get the hang of new foods. Meanwhile, providing familiar foods can help, Mangels said. Families switch to vegetarianism in many ways. Some parents choose to have the whole family switch, often when health concerns are an issue. Others let children transition gradually, selecting what they want to eat outside the home, for example, but having only vegetarian food in the home. Still others simply set a healthy example. " I've also heard from a lot of families in which one parent is vegetarian, but the other is not. Many families, like ours in the beginning, get along just fine because one parent agrees to raise the kids vegetarian even though he or she is not,'' Wilson said. " My husband, for example, ate vegetarian at home, but he would often order meat in a restaurant.'' " Many families experience some level of stress when making the transition, and it's important to remember that each of us is on his or her own path in life,'' she said. " There needs to be acceptance within the family for members who choose to eat meat, for those who occasionally eat meat, as well as for those who are adamant about not eating any animal's products.'' Some teen-agers decide to become vegetarians for their own reasons, because their friends are, or because they have a newfound sense of moral, ethical or environmental awareness. Wilson said that when this happens, many parents don't research vegetarianism and are unable to help the teen-ager make healthy choices. " Some do this because they think it's a phase which will pass, others because they feel that it's an insult to their parenting or beliefs that their child has chosen vegetarianism and still others because they hope to force the teen back into eating meat by not offering options,'' Wilson said. Lifshitz said these young people are particularly vulnerable to nutritional deficiencies. " The adolescents are the ones that worry me more because they are often on their own,'' without the guidance of parents or others who know how to manage a vegetarian diet, he said. Nutritionists agree that parents of vegetarians must play a major role in educating their children, whether teens or babies, about nutrition, just as any parents do. Scott Hestevold, for example, said his children have been taught to plan meals with complete protein, such as dishes that combine pasta with legumes. " With all the information now available about the long-term health benefits of plant-based diets, there is really no question that the vegan diet is safe - in fact, it offers the most disease-fighting protection of any dietary pattern,'' said Amy Lanou, nutrition director for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine in a statement on the group's Web site. " Studies show that a meat-free vegan diet rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes offers clear advantages to growing bodies,'' said Lanou, author of " Healthy Eating for Life for Children.'' " In fact, some research has even shown that vegan diets may offer advantages for developing minds as well.'' Lifshitz, however, recommends that parents of vegetarian children substitute protein foods including eggs and milk for meat. If the family wants to go vegan, Lifshitz said, they should take vitamin and mineral supplements " just to be sure.'' He said the greater the variety of foods that children have available, the better their nutritional needs will be met. " All foods are good in moderation,'' he said. " Any extremes of avoiding certain foods carries risks.'' Lifshitz said some cultures, such as those in India and other parts of Asia, have a long history of raising children on vegetarian diets. Parents there have experience in managing the diet to avoid malnutrition. Parents in cultures without the same dietary history may not have that know-how, he said. Some parents find that by adopting a vegetarian diet, their children learn more about various food groups. " When it comes to vegetarianism, now they can sometimes be more adamant than we are,'' Nita Hestevold said of Erik and Kara. Although the Hestevolds said they never expect anyone else to become vegetarian because of them, and don't push their values on others, sometimes their friends want to see what it's like to be a vegetarian. " Most of my friends have tried being vegetarian,'' Kara said, smiling. " One tried and almost did, but they just couldn't stay away from meat.'' Meredith Cummings writes for the Tuscaloosa News. , Margaret MacGregor <mmacgregor@e...> wrote: > Hi > > > I just joined up last night. My DH (Ian) and I are brand new > vegetarians. We may go down the vegan path later on. Ian announced > his wish to go vegetarian > in the car yesterday, saying he didn't like the way a lot of animals, > particularly chickens, were treated and that he no longer wanted to eat > them. I agree, > and I'd like to know more about it. I'm sure none of the animals lead > a good life! > > We have a six year old daughter who has autism, and he wants her to > continue eating meat! I don't, and feel that since she loves things > like vegetables, beans of all > kinds, pasta and rice it would be an easy job to have her eating > vegetarian, too. He's worried she won't get all the nutrients she > needs. Is there anywhere/anything > we can read which would make this clearer? I know many children grow > up to be healthier eating a vegetarian diet. I'm leery of her being > vegan, I must admit. > > I like to knit and crochet (I don't use wool; not for moral/ethical > reasons, but it just doesn't get cold enough in San Jose to warrant > wearing it and besides, it makes me > itch!) When we go somewhere that gets cold, I wear polar fleece. > > Where can we get non-leather sneakers and belts? > > If anyone can suggest any reading matter for Ian and myself, please do. > > Maggie > San Jose CA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 23, 2003 Hi Maggie - welcome. I feel that autism may well be helped by leaving out meat. There are so many unnatural substances that build up in the fat content, and then get laid down in the brains and fat tissue of people who eat them that it could cause many problems. I certainly don't think your daughter would do anything other than benefit from a veggie/vegan diet. I know I'm biased, but I would suggest giving her a veggie diet to start with, and then possibly vegan later on. I would suggest reading Plant Based Nutrition And Health by Stephen Walsh. I would also suggest contacting the Vegan and Vegetarian Societies concerning the diets of veggie/vegan children, and ask if they have any advice concerning autism. Good luck Jo - Margaret MacGregor Monday, September 22, 2003 6:01 PM New member HiI just joined up last night. My DH (Ian) and I are brand new vegetarians. We may go down the vegan path later on. Ian announced his wish to go vegetarianin the car yesterday, saying he didn't like the way a lot of animals, particularly chickens, were treated and that he no longer wanted to eat them. I agree,and I'd like to know more about it. I'm sure none of the animals lead a good life!We have a six year old daughter who has autism, and he wants her to continue eating meat! I don't, and feel that since she loves things like vegetables, beans of allkinds, pasta and rice it would be an easy job to have her eating vegetarian, too. He's worried she won't get all the nutrients she needs. Is there anywhere/anythingwe can read which would make this clearer? I know many children grow up to be healthier eating a vegetarian diet. I'm leery of her being vegan, I must admit.I like to knit and crochet (I don't use wool; not for moral/ethical reasons, but it just doesn't get cold enough in San Jose to warrant wearing it and besides, it makes meitch!) When we go somewhere that gets cold, I wear polar fleece.Where can we get non-leather sneakers and belts?If anyone can suggest any reading matter for Ian and myself, please do.MaggieSan Jose CA To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 23, 2003 Thanks - I'll have a look. Jo - jj freeman Tuesday, September 23, 2003 3:27 AM Re: New member hey, if your worried about health risks and nutrition in any vegetarian or vegan lifestyle and want medical proof that it actually greatens health for regular people to the sickly, go here www.pcrm.org its a whole bunch of doctors that have done clinical research on how healthy and powerful the vegie/vegan diet is check out the section "health" then click on information on vegetarian diets, itll sure help your decisions in the future To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 23, 2003 Hello, Congrats! I have a video saved on my cpu if you'd like to IM me I could send it to you,(chickvicious2315) It's about how animals are treated in factory farms & such. Also, I've found that veganessentials.com I belive it is, has a good sourse of non-leather products, can't hurt to check it out. Take Care, Sam.Heartwork <Heartwork wrote: Hi Maggie - welcome. I feel that autism may well be helped by leaving out meat. There are so many unnatural substances that build up in the fat content, and then get laid down in the brains and fat tissue of people who eat them that it could cause many problems. I certainly don't think your daughter would do anything other than benefit from a veggie/vegan diet. I know I'm biased, but I would suggest giving her a veggie diet to start with, and then possibly vegan later on. I would suggest reading Plant Based Nutrition And Health by Stephen Walsh. I would also suggest contacting the Vegan and Vegetarian Societies concerning the diets of veggie/vegan children, and ask if they have any advice concerning autism. Good luck Jo - Margaret MacGregor Monday, September 22, 2003 6:01 PM New member HiI just joined up last night. My DH (Ian) and I are brand new vegetarians. We may go down the vegan path later on. Ian announced his wish to go vegetarianin the car yesterday, saying he didn't like the way a lot of animals, particularly chickens, were treated and that he no longer wanted to eat them. I agree,and I'd like to know more about it. I'm sure none of the animals lead a good life!We have a six year old daughter who has autism, and he wants her to continue eating meat! I don't, and feel that since she loves things like vegetables, beans of allkinds, pasta and rice it would be an easy job to have her eating vegetarian, too. He's worried she won't get all the nutrients she needs. Is there anywhere/anythingwe can read which would make this clearer? I know many children grow up to be healthier eating a vegetarian diet. I'm leery of her being vegan, I must admit.I like to knit and crochet (I don't use wool; not for moral/ethical reasons, but it just doesn't get cold enough in San Jose to warrant wearing it and besides, it makes meitch!) When we go somewhere that gets cold, I wear polar fleece.Where can we get non-leather sneakers and belts?If anyone can suggest any reading matter for Ian and myself, please do.MaggieSan Jose CA To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 hi all, i have made some progress with my meat eater partner, and i thought i would share it with in case it helps anyone maintain their hope and their strategy...........we have been together 8 years........he loves meat.......but about 8 months ago, i put my foot down and said i would not cook, reheat, serve or handle meat .......and that every day i would cook a vegan meal from scratch, and he was entitled to eat with me or watch, whichever took his fancy....... so he bought kebabs, cooked things..........and one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli.......the whole house smelled of woderful vegan chilli............he gave in and ate some.......so at the moment he is eating chili, vegan soya bolognese, vegan sausages onion gravy and mash, so three or four meals a week are vegan.............. i dont say much to him about it, because he was very stubborn about meat............but when theres hot tasty food to be eaten, he caved in.......... i cross my fingers that it will continue catherine >"nikki_mackovitch" > > > Re: New member >Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:25:30 -0000 > >Hi Maggie and WELCOME! > >CONGRATS on yer decision to go veggie! > >Two books I highly recommend is Jon Robbin's "Diet For A New America" >and another is "The Vegan Sourcebook" (cannot remember the authors >name right now to save my life). Or even go to the library and look >up vegetarian/vegan. You should find somewonderful resources there. >The Vegan Sourcebook helped me out a lot because it listed the >nutrients that the human body needs daily and wonderful ways for you >to get it. It also has a lot of great recipes in it as well. > >I've also included below some info I got (maybe from this group??) on >kids and vegetarian dites. It has helped me a lot with my 5 year old >son. Unfortunately, my DH is still a carnivore and so is my son. But >slowly they are experiencing new foods with me and do eat a lot of >soy products with me now. But I think the house would have to burn >down before either of them would allow something green to pass their >lips. *sigh* tis a shame, guess I have to eat all of the brocolli >Oh darn! > > >A great website for recipes and info is www.vegweb.com or you can >wait fer Fraggle to get back to the group and pound us with some of >his. > >Hope this helps! > >nikki >Everything alive is sacred; life delights in life. >William Blake > > > >Article on kids and veggie diets: > > >http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? >AID=/20030903/NEWS/309030303/1004 > >Influenced by family or on their own, many young people turn to >veggie diet >By Meredith Cummings >NYT Regional Newspapers > > > TIPS FOR PARENTS > The American Dietetic Association offers parents the following >practical advice for helping vegetarian children meet their >nutritional needs in healthful and tasty ways: >* Calories and fat: Vegetarian children's diets sometimes tend to be >high in fiber, filling their stomachs but making it difficult for >them to consume the levels of energy they need. Avocados, nuts, >seeds, dried fruits and soy products provide concentrated sources of >calories. >* Protein: Protein needs generally can be met by eating a variety of >plant foods and having an adequate intake of calories. Foods high in >protein include legumes, grains, soy products, nuts, dairy products >and eggs. Grains such as rice, pasta, breads and cereals also provide >protein. >* Calcium: Good sources of calcium, especially for vegans, include >calcium-fortified soy and rice milks and orange juice, tofu and dark >green leafy vegetables. >* Vitamin D: Children regularly exposed to appropriate levels of >sunlight - 20 to 30 minutes per day on the hands and face, two to >three times per week - apparently have no dietary requirement for >vitamin D. Children with darker skin or who have limited exposure to >sunlight may require vitamin supplements. Dietary sources of vitamin >D include fortified cow's milk, some brands of soy or rice milk and >most dry cereals. >* Iron: Iron-deficiency anemia is the most common childhood >nutritional problem, but it's no more likely to occur in vegetarian >children than non-vegetarians. Good sources of iron include whole or >enriched grains, iron-fortified cereals, legumes, green leafy >vegetables and dried fruits. >* Vitamin B12: Vegan children should eat foods fortified with vitamin >B12, including fortified soy milk, fortified nutritional yeast and >some breakfast cereals. >* Zinc: Sources include legumes, hard cheeses, whole grain products, >wheat germ, nuts and tofu. >* * * >Of course, children being children - vegetarian or not - means they >can be picky eaters. To try to overcome this natural tendency, ADA >offers some recommendations: >* Offer choices of foods: Letting the child make some decisions can >increase the acceptance of foods. >* Make foods fun: Make pancakes in different shapes or with faces >made from fruit, offer vegetables and dips, hide small pieces of >fruit in yogurt. >* Set a good example: Let children see you eating healthy foods. >* Involve the child in food preparation: Young toddlers can tear up >lettuce and put pieces of vegetables into a pot. Older preschoolers >can wash vegetables, stir a fruit salad and help measure dry >ingredients. >* Keep mealtimes pleasant: Don't force a child to eat or use food as >a reward. Try to stay calm about food refusals. >- American Dietetic Association, 1998 > > > Kara and Erik Hestevold put their plates forward for slices of >chocolate cream pie. Not a bad way to wrap up a recent meal for the >Hestevold children and their parents, Scott and Nita. > >But this pie was not ordinary. > >Its secret ingredient was tofu - whipped into a froth and mixed with >chocolate. That may sound unappetizing to some, but it appeals to 9- >year-old Kara and 14-year-old Erik. > >The Hestevolds are raising their children as vegetarians. About 1 >million children ages 6 to 17 are vegetarians, according to the >Vegetarian Resource Group, a nonprofit organization based in >Baltimore. > >Vegetarians do not eat meat, fish or fowl. Vegans do not eat meat, >fish or fowl and do not use other animal products such as dairy or >eggs. > >Erik and Kara said they are sometimes teased, but that it's not as >bad as it once was. They take their lunches to school each day and >deal with offerings at birthday parties and other social events. > >"My true friends don't bug me about it,'' Erik said. "But then, some >people will say things like, 'Do you take protein pills?' I've never >heard of a protein pill. The closest thing to a protein pill is a >bean.'' > >Books such as "Raising Vegetarian Children'' and "Cooking with Herb, >the Vegetarian Dragon - A Cookbook for Kids'' sit in the Hestevolds' >kitchen, showing how this Tuscaloosa family differs from neighbors >who prefer the meat-and-veggies staples of the South. > >The Hestevold parents both ate meat for years before becoming >vegetarians for moral reasons. > >Experts say that a well-planned vegetarian diet can be a healthy >alternative to standard meat-based menus for all age groups. That >includes during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and >adolescence, the group said in a statement published in the June >issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. > >A representative of the American Academy of Pediatrics concurred. > >"We agree that vegetarianism, especially the vegetarianism that does >not eliminate milk, eggs and so on, is compatible with the normal >dietary intake of a child and an adolescent,'' said Dr. Fima >Lifshitz, director of pediatrics and a senior nutrition scientist at >the Sansum Medical Research Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif. > >Lifshitz, however, cautions that more extreme > >- James Beard's"Beard on Pasta'' > >diets, such as those that eliminate all animal products, can be >dangerous if not managed correctly. There have been well-publicized >cases of malnutrition in children with restrictive diets. > >Parents say the challenges of raising vegetarian children change over >time, but most agree that one issue is contending with other people. >Whether it's in-laws who don't agree with parents' choices or helping >children handle teasing or peer pressure, parental duties can be >difficult. > >"Teaching our kids to navigate in a world which is so fundamentally >different from what we believe is right as far as nutrition and >animal welfare is sometimes difficult,'' said Melanie Wilson, >publisher of Vegetarian Baby and Child Magazine and >Vegetarianteen.com Online Magazine. She has two daughters who are >vegans, ages 5 and 18 months. > >Parents who are thinking of raising children as vegetarians - or >switching to vegetarianism - must do research, said Reed Mangels, >nutrition adviser for the Vegetarian Resource Group. For the first >six or seven months of life, a vegetarian or vegan baby's diet should >not differ from that of a nonvegetarian. But once the time comes when >meat would normally be introduced to the baby, parents need to find >alternative sources of protein, such as yogurt, cottage cheese, soy >and dry beans. > >Mangels, an author of books on vegetarianism, said some parents >mistakenly try to make their own baby formula. If a vegetarian baby >cannot be breast-fed, she said, always buy formula from the store. > >"Breast-feeding is the very best way to go whether you're vegetarian >or not,'' Mangels said. "If that's not possible, then infant formula >is the only other choice. I think that's important because, >sometimes, a vegetarian will say, 'Oh, I drink soy milk so it must be >OK for my baby,' but that won't work for the baby.'' > >The Hestevolds' decision to raise their children as vegetarians was a >natural one since they are vegetarians. But some families decide to >switch to vegetarianism when their children are older. > >Making the switch takes time, but children adapt easily and can soon >get the hang of new foods. Meanwhile, providing familiar foods can >help, Mangels said. > >Families switch to vegetarianism in many ways. Some parents choose to >have the whole family switch, often when health concerns are an >issue. Others let children transition gradually, selecting what they >want to eat outside the home, for example, but having only vegetarian >food in the home. Still others simply set a healthy example. > >"I've also heard from a lot of families in which one parent is >vegetarian, but the other is not. Many families, like ours in the >beginning, get along just fine because one parent agrees to raise the >kids vegetarian even though he or she is not,'' Wilson said. "My >husband, for example, ate vegetarian at home, but he would often >order meat in a restaurant.'' > >"Many families experience some level of stress when making the >transition, and it's important to remember that each of us is on his >or her own path in life,'' she said. "There needs to be acceptance >within the family for members who choose to eat meat, for those who >occasionally eat meat, as well as for those who are adamant about not >eating any animal's products.'' > >Some teen-agers decide to become vegetarians for their own reasons, >because their friends are, or because they have a newfound sense of >moral, ethical or environmental awareness. Wilson said that when this >happens, many parents don't research vegetarianism and are unable to >help the teen-ager make healthy choices. > >"Some do this because they think it's a phase which will pass, others >because they feel that it's an insult to their parenting or beliefs >that their child has chosen vegetarianism and still others because >they hope to force the teen back into eating meat by not offering >options,'' Wilson said. > >Lifshitz said these young people are particularly vulnerable to >nutritional deficiencies. > >"The adolescents are the ones that worry me more because they are >often on their own,'' without the guidance of parents or others who >know how to manage a vegetarian diet, he said. > >Nutritionists agree that parents of vegetarians must play a major >role in educating their children, whether teens or babies, about >nutrition, just as any parents do. Scott Hestevold, for example, said >his children have been taught to plan meals with complete protein, >such as dishes that combine pasta with legumes. > >"With all the information now available about the long-term health >benefits of plant-based diets, there is really no question that the >vegan diet is safe - in fact, it offers the most disease-fighting >protection of any dietary pattern,'' said Amy Lanou, nutrition >director for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine in a >statement on the group's Web site. > >"Studies show that a meat-free vegan diet rich in fruits, vegetables, >whole grains, and legumes offers clear advantages to growing >bodies,'' said Lanou, author of "Healthy Eating for Life for >Children.'' "In fact, some research has even shown that vegan diets >may offer advantages for developing minds as well.'' > >Lifshitz, however, recommends that parents of vegetarian children >substitute protein foods including eggs and milk for meat. If the >family wants to go vegan, Lifshitz said, they should take vitamin and >mineral supplements "just to be sure.'' > >He said the greater the variety of foods that children have >available, the better their nutritional needs will be met. > >"All foods are good in moderation,'' he said. "Any extremes of >avoiding certain foods carries risks.'' > >Lifshitz said some cultures, such as those in India and other parts >of Asia, have a long history of raising children on vegetarian diets. >Parents there have experience in managing the diet to avoid >malnutrition. Parents in cultures without the same dietary history >may not have that know-how, he said. > >Some parents find that by adopting a vegetarian diet, their children >learn more about various food groups. > >"When it comes to vegetarianism, now they can sometimes be more >adamant than we are,'' Nita Hestevold said of Erik and Kara. > >Although the Hestevolds said they never expect anyone else to become >vegetarian because of them, and don't push their values on others, >sometimes their friends want to see what it's like to be a vegetarian. > >"Most of my friends have tried being vegetarian,'' Kara said, >smiling. "One tried and almost did, but they just couldn't stay away >from meat.'' > >Meredith Cummings writes for the Tuscaloosa News. > > > > , Margaret MacGregor > wrote: > > Hi > > > > > > I just joined up last night. My DH (Ian) and I are brand new > > vegetarians. We may go down the vegan path later on. Ian >announced > > his wish to go vegetarian > > in the car yesterday, saying he didn't like the way a lot of >animals, > > particularly chickens, were treated and that he no longer wanted to >eat > > them. I agree, > > and I'd like to know more about it. I'm sure none of the animals >lead > > a good life! > > > > We have a six year old daughter who has autism, and he wants her to > > continue eating meat! I don't, and feel that since she loves >things > > like vegetables, beans of all > > kinds, pasta and rice it would be an easy job to have her eating > > vegetarian, too. He's worried she won't get all the nutrients she > > needs. Is there anywhere/anything > > we can read which would make this clearer? I know many children >grow > > up to be healthier eating a vegetarian diet. I'm leery of her >being > > vegan, I must admit. > > > > I like to knit and crochet (I don't use wool; not for moral/ethical > > reasons, but it just doesn't get cold enough in San Jose to warrant > > wearing it and besides, it makes me > > itch!) When we go somewhere that gets cold, I wear polar fleece. > > > > Where can we get non-leather sneakers and belts? > > > > If anyone can suggest any reading matter for Ian and myself, please >do. > > > > Maggie > > San Jose CA > Half price modem, FREE connection and one month FREE - click here to sign up to BT Broadband. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 Catherine I think that is brilliant. It must be so difficult, but you are having a good measure of success. Hopefully, eventually he will enjoy so many vegan meals that maybe he will forget the meat most of the time. Jo - Catherine Harris Wednesday, September 24, 2003 1:32 PM Re: Re: New member hi all, i have made some progress with my meat eater partner, and i thought i would share it with in case it helps anyone maintain their hope and their strategy...........we have been together 8 years........he loves meat.......but about 8 months ago, i put my foot down and said i would not cook, reheat, serve or handle meat .......and that every day i would cook a vegan meal from scratch, and he was entitled to eat with me or watch, whichever took his fancy....... so he bought kebabs, cooked things..........and one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli.......the whole house smelled of woderful vegan chilli............he gave in and ate some.......so at the moment he is eating chili, vegan soya bolognese, vegan sausages onion gravy and mash, so three or four meals a week are vegan.............. i dont say much to him about it, because he was very stubborn about meat............but when theres hot tasty food to be eaten, he caved in.......... i cross my fingers that it will continue catherine >"nikki_mackovitch" > > > Re: New member >Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:25:30 -0000 > >Hi Maggie and WELCOME! > >CONGRATS on yer decision to go veggie! > >Two books I highly recommend is Jon Robbin's "Diet For A New America" >and another is "The Vegan Sourcebook" (cannot remember the authors >name right now to save my life). Or even go to the library and look >up vegetarian/vegan. You should find somewonderful resources there. >The Vegan Sourcebook helped me out a lot because it listed the >nutrients that the human body needs daily and wonderful ways for you >to get it. It also has a lot of great recipes in it as well. > >I've also included below some info I got (maybe from this group??) on >kids and vegetarian dites. It has helped me a lot with my 5 year old >son. Unfortunately, my DH is still a carnivore and so is my son. But >slowly they are experiencing new foods with me and do eat a lot of >soy products with me now. But I think the house would have to burn >down before either of them would allow something green to pass their >lips. *sigh* tis a shame, guess I have to eat all of the brocolli >Oh darn! > > >A great website for recipes and info is www.vegweb.com or you can >wait fer Fraggle to get back to the group and pound us with some of >his. > >Hope this helps! > >nikki >Everything alive is sacred; life delights in life. >William Blake > > > >Article on kids and veggie diets: > > >http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? >AID=/20030903/NEWS/309030303/1004 > >Influenced by family or on their own, many young people turn to >veggie diet >By Meredith Cummings >NYT Regional Newspapers > > > TIPS FOR PARENTS > The American Dietetic Association offers parents the following >practical advice for helping vegetarian children meet their >nutritional needs in healthful and tasty ways: >* Calories and fat: Vegetarian children's diets sometimes tend to be >high in fiber, filling their stomachs but making it difficult for >them to consume the levels of energy they need. Avocados, nuts, >seeds, dried fruits and soy products provide concentrated sources of >calories. >* Protein: Protein needs generally can be met by eating a variety of >plant foods and having an adequate intake of calories. Foods high in >protein include legumes, grains, soy products, nuts, dairy products >and eggs. Grains such as rice, pasta, breads and cereals also provide >protein. >* Calcium: Good sources of calcium, especially for vegans, include >calcium-fortified soy and rice milks and orange juice, tofu and dark >green leafy vegetables. >* Vitamin D: Children regularly exposed to appropriate levels of >sunlight - 20 to 30 minutes per day on the hands and face, two to >three times per week - apparently have no dietary requirement for >vitamin D. Children with darker skin or who have limited exposure to >sunlight may require vitamin supplements. Dietary sources of vitamin >D include fortified cow's milk, some brands of soy or rice milk and >most dry cereals. >* Iron: Iron-deficiency anemia is the most common childhood >nutritional problem, but it's no more likely to occur in vegetarian >children than non-vegetarians. Good sources of iron include whole or >enriched grains, iron-fortified cereals, legumes, green leafy >vegetables and dried fruits. >* Vitamin B12: Vegan children should eat foods fortified with vitamin >B12, including fortified soy milk, fortified nutritional yeast and >some breakfast cereals. >* Zinc: Sources include legumes, hard cheeses, whole grain products, >wheat germ, nuts and tofu. >* * * >Of course, children being children - vegetarian or not - means they >can be picky eaters. To try to overcome this natural tendency, ADA >offers some recommendations: >* Offer choices of foods: Letting the child make some decisions can >increase the acceptance of foods. >* Make foods fun: Make pancakes in different shapes or with faces >made from fruit, offer vegetables and dips, hide small pieces of >fruit in yogurt. >* Set a good example: Let children see you eating healthy foods. >* Involve the child in food preparation: Young toddlers can tear up >lettuce and put pieces of vegetables into a pot. Older preschoolers >can wash vegetables, stir a fruit salad and help measure dry >ingredients. >* Keep mealtimes pleasant: Don't force a child to eat or use food as >a reward. Try to stay calm about food refusals. >- American Dietetic Association, 1998 > > > Kara and Erik Hestevold put their plates forward for slices of >chocolate cream pie. Not a bad way to wrap up a recent meal for the >Hestevold children and their parents, Scott and Nita. > >But this pie was not ordinary. > >Its secret ingredient was tofu - whipped into a froth and mixed with >chocolate. That may sound unappetizing to some, but it appeals to 9- >year-old Kara and 14-year-old Erik. > >The Hestevolds are raising their children as vegetarians. About 1 >million children ages 6 to 17 are vegetarians, according to the >Vegetarian Resource Group, a nonprofit organization based in >Baltimore. > >Vegetarians do not eat meat, fish or fowl. Vegans do not eat meat, >fish or fowl and do not use other animal products such as dairy or >eggs. > >Erik and Kara said they are sometimes teased, but that it's not as >bad as it once was. They take their lunches to school each day and >deal with offerings at birthday parties and other social events. > >"My true friends don't bug me about it,'' Erik said. "But then, some >people will say things like, 'Do you take protein pills?' I've never >heard of a protein pill. The closest thing to a protein pill is a >bean.'' > >Books such as "Raising Vegetarian Children'' and "Cooking with Herb, >the Vegetarian Dragon - A Cookbook for Kids'' sit in the Hestevolds' >kitchen, showing how this Tuscaloosa family differs from neighbors >who prefer the meat-and-veggies staples of the South. > >The Hestevold parents both ate meat for years before becoming >vegetarians for moral reasons. > >Experts say that a well-planned vegetarian diet can be a healthy >alternative to standard meat-based menus for all age groups. That >includes during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and >adolescence, the group said in a statement published in the June >issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. > >A representative of the American Academy of Pediatrics concurred. > >"We agree that vegetarianism, especially the vegetarianism that does >not eliminate milk, eggs and so on, is compatible with the normal >dietary intake of a child and an adolescent,'' said Dr. Fima >Lifshitz, director of pediatrics and a senior nutrition scientist at >the Sansum Medical Research Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif. > >Lifshitz, however, cautions that more extreme > >- James Beard's"Beard on Pasta'' > >diets, such as those that eliminate all animal products, can be >dangerous if not managed correctly. There have been well-publicized >cases of malnutrition in children with restrictive diets. > >Parents say the challenges of raising vegetarian children change over >time, but most agree that one issue is contending with other people. >Whether it's in-laws who don't agree with parents' choices or helping >children handle teasing or peer pressure, parental duties can be >difficult. > >"Teaching our kids to navigate in a world which is so fundamentally >different from what we believe is right as far as nutrition and >animal welfare is sometimes difficult,'' said Melanie Wilson, >publisher of Vegetarian Baby and Child Magazine and >Vegetarianteen.com Online Magazine. She has two daughters who are >vegans, ages 5 and 18 months. > >Parents who are thinking of raising children as vegetarians - or >switching to vegetarianism - must do research, said Reed Mangels, >nutrition adviser for the Vegetarian Resource Group. For the first >six or seven months of life, a vegetarian or vegan baby's diet should >not differ from that of a nonvegetarian. But once the time comes when >meat would normally be introduced to the baby, parents need to find >alternative sources of protein, such as yogurt, cottage cheese, soy >and dry beans. > >Mangels, an author of books on vegetarianism, said some parents >mistakenly try to make their own baby formula. If a vegetarian baby >cannot be breast-fed, she said, always buy formula from the store. > >"Breast-feeding is the very best way to go whether you're vegetarian >or not,'' Mangels said. "If that's not possible, then infant formula >is the only other choice. I think that's important because, >sometimes, a vegetarian will say, 'Oh, I drink soy milk so it must be >OK for my baby,' but that won't work for the baby.'' > >The Hestevolds' decision to raise their children as vegetarians was a >natural one since they are vegetarians. But some families decide to >switch to vegetarianism when their children are older. > >Making the switch takes time, but children adapt easily and can soon >get the hang of new foods. Meanwhile, providing familiar foods can >help, Mangels said. > >Families switch to vegetarianism in many ways. Some parents choose to >have the whole family switch, often when health concerns are an >issue. Others let children transition gradually, selecting what they >want to eat outside the home, for example, but having only vegetarian >food in the home. Still others simply set a healthy example. > >"I've also heard from a lot of families in which one parent is >vegetarian, but the other is not. Many families, like ours in the >beginning, get along just fine because one parent agrees to raise the >kids vegetarian even though he or she is not,'' Wilson said. "My >husband, for example, ate vegetarian at home, but he would often >order meat in a restaurant.'' > >"Many families experience some level of stress when making the >transition, and it's important to remember that each of us is on his >or her own path in life,'' she said. "There needs to be acceptance >within the family for members who choose to eat meat, for those who >occasionally eat meat, as well as for those who are adamant about not >eating any animal's products.'' > >Some teen-agers decide to become vegetarians for their own reasons, >because their friends are, or because they have a newfound sense of >moral, ethical or environmental awareness. Wilson said that when this >happens, many parents don't research vegetarianism and are unable to >help the teen-ager make healthy choices. > >"Some do this because they think it's a phase which will pass, others >because they feel that it's an insult to their parenting or beliefs >that their child has chosen vegetarianism and still others because >they hope to force the teen back into eating meat by not offering >options,'' Wilson said. > >Lifshitz said these young people are particularly vulnerable to >nutritional deficiencies. > >"The adolescents are the ones that worry me more because they are >often on their own,'' without the guidance of parents or others who >know how to manage a vegetarian diet, he said. > >Nutritionists agree that parents of vegetarians must play a major >role in educating their children, whether teens or babies, about >nutrition, just as any parents do. Scott Hestevold, for example, said >his children have been taught to plan meals with complete protein, >such as dishes that combine pasta with legumes. > >"With all the information now available about the long-term health >benefits of plant-based diets, there is really no question that the >vegan diet is safe - in fact, it offers the most disease-fighting >protection of any dietary pattern,'' said Amy Lanou, nutrition >director for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine in a >statement on the group's Web site. > >"Studies show that a meat-free vegan diet rich in fruits, vegetables, >whole grains, and legumes offers clear advantages to growing >bodies,'' said Lanou, author of "Healthy Eating for Life for >Children.'' "In fact, some research has even shown that vegan diets >may offer advantages for developing minds as well.'' > >Lifshitz, however, recommends that parents of vegetarian children >substitute protein foods including eggs and milk for meat. If the >family wants to go vegan, Lifshitz said, they should take vitamin and >mineral supplements "just to be sure.'' > >He said the greater the variety of foods that children have >available, the better their nutritional needs will be met. > >"All foods are good in moderation,'' he said. "Any extremes of >avoiding certain foods carries risks.'' > >Lifshitz said some cultures, such as those in India and other parts >of Asia, have a long history of raising children on vegetarian diets. >Parents there have experience in managing the diet to avoid >malnutrition. Parents in cultures without the same dietary history >may not have that know-how, he said. > >Some parents find that by adopting a vegetarian diet, their children >learn more about various food groups. > >"When it comes to vegetarianism, now they can sometimes be more >adamant than we are,'' Nita Hestevold said of Erik and Kara. > >Although the Hestevolds said they never expect anyone else to become >vegetarian because of them, and don't push their values on others, >sometimes their friends want to see what it's like to be a vegetarian. > >"Most of my friends have tried being vegetarian,'' Kara said, >smiling. "One tried and almost did, but they just couldn't stay away >from meat.'' > >Meredith Cummings writes for the Tuscaloosa News. > > > > , Margaret MacGregor > wrote: > > Hi > > > > > > I just joined up last night. My DH (Ian) and I are brand new > > vegetarians. We may go down the vegan path later on. Ian >announced > > his wish to go vegetarian > > in the car yesterday, saying he didn't like the way a lot of >animals, > > particularly chickens, were treated and that he no longer wanted to >eat > > them. I agree, > > and I'd like to know more about it. I'm sure none of the animals >lead > > a good life! > > > > We have a six year old daughter who has autism, and he wants her to > > continue eating meat! I don't, and feel that since she loves >things > > like vegetables, beans of all > > kinds, pasta and rice it would be an easy job to have her eating > > vegetarian, too. He's worried she won't get all the nutrients she > > needs. Is there anywhere/anything > > we can read which would make this clearer? I know many children >grow > > up to be healthier eating a vegetarian diet. I'm leery of her >being > > vegan, I must admit. > > > > I like to knit and crochet (I don't use wool; not for moral/ethical > > reasons, but it just doesn't get cold enough in San Jose to warrant > > wearing it and besides, it makes me > > itch!) When we go somewhere that gets cold, I wear polar fleece. > > > > Where can we get non-leather sneakers and belts? > > > > If anyone can suggest any reading matter for Ian and myself, please >do. > > > > Maggie > > San Jose CA > Half price modem, FREE connection and one month FREE - click here to sign up to BT Broadband. To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 09:40 AM, Heartwork wrote: > one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli. Catherine, Any chance of posting the recipe? We all love chili here! Maggie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2003 Catherine- I don't mean to sound rude at all! But... My bf and I have been together for a while as well and he also loves meat, And even though it's my choice to be Vegan & his to eat meat...I'd never in 100 yrs try to make him go vegan, I wouldn't object to it, But as being vegan is my choice, eatting meat is his & he's never once tried to change my views. I mean I'm not saying you absolutley made your partner because ultimatley it was his choice. I guess in my opinion I wouldn't do that... My boyfriend knows I will not cook the meat for him, but if he choices to do so and to eat it, thats his decision, not mine. That's just how I feel. Hope I didn't offend at all. Take Care,Sam.Catherine Harris <cait2 wrote: hi all, i have made some progress with my meat eater partner, and i thought i would share it with in case it helps anyone maintain their hope and their strategy...........we have been together 8 years........he loves meat.......but about 8 months ago, i put my foot down and said i would not cook, reheat, serve or handle meat .......and that every day i would cook a vegan meal from scratch, and he was entitled to eat with me or watch, whichever took his fancy....... so he bought kebabs, cooked things..........and one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli.......the whole house smelled of woderful vegan chilli............he gave in and ate some.......so at the moment he is eating chili, vegan soya bolognese, vegan sausages onion gravy and mash, so three or four meals a week are vegan.............. i dont say much to him about it, because he was very stubborn about meat............but when theres hot tasty food to be eaten, he caved in.......... i cross my fingers that it will continue catherine >"nikki_mackovitch" > > > Re: New member >Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:25:30 -0000 > >Hi Maggie and WELCOME! > >CONGRATS on yer decision to go veggie! > >Two books I highly recommend is Jon Robbin's "Diet For A New America" >and another is "The Vegan Sourcebook" (cannot remember the authors >name right now to save my life). Or even go to the library and look >up vegetarian/vegan. You should find somewonderful resources there. >The Vegan Sourcebook helped me out a lot because it listed the >nutrients that the human body needs daily and wonderful ways for you >to get it. It also has a lot of great recipes in it as well. > >I've also included below some info I got (maybe from this group??) on >kids and vegetarian dites. It has helped me a lot with my 5 year old >son. Unfortunately, my DH is still a carnivore and so is my son. But >slowly they are experiencing new foods with me and do eat a lot of >soy products with me now. But I think the house would have to burn >down before either of them would allow something green to pass their >lips. *sigh* tis a shame, guess I have to eat all of the brocolli >Oh darn! > > >A great website for recipes and info is www.vegweb.com or you can >wait fer Fraggle to get back to the group and pound us with some of >his. > >Hope this helps! > >nikki >Everything alive is sacred; life delights in life. >William Blake > > > >Article on kids and veggie diets: > > >http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? >AID=/20030903/NEWS/309030303/1004 > >Influenced by family or on their own, many young people turn to >veggie diet >By Meredith Cummings >NYT Regional Newspapers > > > TIPS FOR PARENTS > The American Dietetic Association offers parents the following >practical advice for helping vegetarian children meet their >nutritional needs in healthful and tasty ways: >* Calories and fat: Vegetarian children's diets sometimes tend to be >high in fiber, filling their stomachs but making it difficult for >them to consume the levels of energy they need. Avocados, nuts, >seeds, dried fruits and soy products provide concentrated sources of >calories. >* Protein: Protein needs generally can be met by eating a variety of >plant foods and having an adequate intake of calories. Foods high in >protein include legumes, grains, soy products, nuts, dairy products >and eggs. Grains such as rice, pasta, breads and cereals also provide >protein. >* Calcium: Good sources of calcium, especially for vegans, include >calcium-fortified soy and rice milks and orange juice, tofu and dark >green leafy vegetables. >* Vitamin D: Children regularly exposed to appropriate levels of >sunlight - 20 to 30 minutes per day on the hands and face, two to >three times per week - apparently have no dietary requirement for >vitamin D. Children with darker skin or who have limited exposure to >sunlight may require vitamin supplements. Dietary sources of vitamin >D include fortified cow's milk, some brands of soy or rice milk and >most dry cereals. >* Iron: Iron-deficiency anemia is the most common childhood >nutritional problem, but it's no more likely to occur in vegetarian >children than non-vegetarians. Good sources of iron include whole or >enriched grains, iron-fortified cereals, legumes, green leafy >vegetables and dried fruits. >* Vitamin B12: Vegan children should eat foods fortified with vitamin >B12, including fortified soy milk, fortified nutritional yeast and >some breakfast cereals. >* Zinc: Sources include legumes, hard cheeses, whole grain products, >wheat germ, nuts and tofu. >* * * >Of course, children being children - vegetarian or not - means they >can be picky eaters. To try to overcome this natural tendency, ADA >offers some recommendations: >* Offer choices of foods: Letting the child make some decisions can >increase the acceptance of foods. >* Make foods fun: Make pancakes in different shapes or with faces >made from fruit, offer vegetables and dips, hide small pieces of >fruit in yogurt. >* Set a good example: Let children see you eating healthy foods. >* Involve the child in food preparation: Young toddlers can tear up >lettuce and put pieces of vegetables into a pot. Older preschoolers >can wash vegetables, stir a fruit salad and help measure dry >ingredients. >* Keep mealtimes pleasant: Don't force a child to eat or use food as >a reward. Try to stay calm about food refusals. >- American Dietetic Association, 1998 > > > Kara and Erik Hestevold put their plates forward for slices of >chocolate cream pie. Not a bad way to wrap up a recent meal for the >Hestevold children and their parents, Scott and Nita. > >But this pie was not ordinary. > >Its secret ingredient was tofu - whipped into a froth and mixed with >chocolate. That may sound unappetizing to some, but it appeals to 9- >year-old Kara and 14-year-old Erik. > >The Hestevolds are raising their children as vegetarians. About 1 >million children ages 6 to 17 are vegetarians, according to the >Vegetarian Resource Group, a nonprofit organization based in >Baltimore. > >Vegetarians do not eat meat, fish or fowl. Vegans do not eat meat, >fish or fowl and do not use other animal products such as dairy or >eggs. > >Erik and Kara said they are sometimes teased, but that it's not as >bad as it once was. They take their lunches to school each day and >deal with offerings at birthday parties and other social events. > >"My true friends don't bug me about it,'' Erik said. "But then, some >people will say things like, 'Do you take protein pills?' I've never >heard of a protein pill. The closest thing to a protein pill is a >bean.'' > >Books such as "Raising Vegetarian Children'' and "Cooking with Herb, >the Vegetarian Dragon - A Cookbook for Kids'' sit in the Hestevolds' >kitchen, showing how this Tuscaloosa family differs from neighbors >who prefer the meat-and-veggies staples of the South. > >The Hestevold parents both ate meat for years before becoming >vegetarians for moral reasons. > >Experts say that a well-planned vegetarian diet can be a healthy >alternative to standard meat-based menus for all age groups. That >includes during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and >adolescence, the group said in a statement published in the June >issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. > >A representative of the American Academy of Pediatrics concurred. > >"We agree that vegetarianism, especially the vegetarianism that does >not eliminate milk, eggs and so on, is compatible with the normal >dietary intake of a child and an adolescent,'' said Dr. Fima >Lifshitz, director of pediatrics and a senior nutrition scientist at >the Sansum Medical Research Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif. > >Lifshitz, however, cautions that more extreme > >- James Beard's"Beard on Pasta'' > >diets, such as those that eliminate all animal products, can be >dangerous if not managed correctly. There have been well-publicized >cases of malnutrition in children with restrictive diets. > >Parents say the challenges of raising vegetarian children change over >time, but most agree that one issue is contending with other people. >Whether it's in-laws who don't agree with parents' choices or helping >children handle teasing or peer pressure, parental duties can be >difficult. > >"Teaching our kids to navigate in a world which is so fundamentally >different from what we believe is right as far as nutrition and >animal welfare is sometimes difficult,'' said Melanie Wilson, >publisher of Vegetarian Baby and Child Magazine and >Vegetarianteen.com Online Magazine. She has two daughters who are >vegans, ages 5 and 18 months. > >Parents who are thinking of raising children as vegetarians - or >switching to vegetarianism - must do research, said Reed Mangels, >nutrition adviser for the Vegetarian Resource Group. For the first >six or seven months of life, a vegetarian or vegan baby's diet should >not differ from that of a nonvegetarian. But once the time comes when >meat would normally be introduced to the baby, parents need to find >alternative sources of protein, such as yogurt, cottage cheese, soy >and dry beans. > >Mangels, an author of books on vegetarianism, said some parents >mistakenly try to make their own baby formula. If a vegetarian baby >cannot be breast-fed, she said, always buy formula from the store. > >"Breast-feeding is the very best way to go whether you're vegetarian >or not,'' Mangels said. "If that's not possible, then infant formula >is the only other choice. I think that's important because, >sometimes, a vegetarian will say, 'Oh, I drink soy milk so it must be >OK for my baby,' but that won't work for the baby.'' > >The Hestevolds' decision to raise their children as vegetarians was a >natural one since they are vegetarians. But some families decide to >switch to vegetarianism when their children are older. > >Making the switch takes time, but children adapt easily and can soon >get the hang of new foods. Meanwhile, providing familiar foods can >help, Mangels said. > >Families switch to vegetarianism in many ways. Some parents choose to >have the whole family switch, often when health concerns are an >issue. Others let children transition gradually, selecting what they >want to eat outside the home, for example, but having only vegetarian >food in the home. Still others simply set a healthy example. > >"I've also heard from a lot of families in which one parent is >vegetarian, but the other is not. Many families, like ours in the >beginning, get along just fine because one parent agrees to raise the >kids vegetarian even though he or she is not,'' Wilson said. "My >husband, for example, ate vegetarian at home, but he would often >order meat in a restaurant.'' > >"Many families experience some level of stress when making the >transition, and it's important to remember that each of us is on his >or her own path in life,'' she said. "There needs to be acceptance >within the family for members who choose to eat meat, for those who >occasionally eat meat, as well as for those who are adamant about not >eating any animal's products.'' > >Some teen-agers decide to become vegetarians for their own reasons, >because their friends are, or because they have a newfound sense of >moral, ethical or environmental awareness. Wilson said that when this >happens, many parents don't research vegetarianism and are unable to >help the teen-ager make healthy choices. > >"Some do this because they think it's a phase which will pass, others >because they feel that it's an insult to their parenting or beliefs >that their child has chosen vegetarianism and still others because >they hope to force the teen back into eating meat by not offering >options,'' Wilson said. > >Lifshitz said these young people are particularly vulnerable to >nutritional deficiencies. > >"The adolescents are the ones that worry me more because they are >often on their own,'' without the guidance of parents or others who >know how to manage a vegetarian diet, he said. > >Nutritionists agree that parents of vegetarians must play a major >role in educating their children, whether teens or babies, about >nutrition, just as any parents do. Scott Hestevold, for example, said >his children have been taught to plan meals with complete protein, >such as dishes that combine pasta with legumes. > >"With all the information now available about the long-term health >benefits of plant-based diets, there is really no question that the >vegan diet is safe - in fact, it offers the most disease-fighting >protection of any dietary pattern,'' said Amy Lanou, nutrition >director for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine in a >statement on the group's Web site. > >"Studies show that a meat-free vegan diet rich in fruits, vegetables, >whole grains, and legumes offers clear advantages to growing >bodies,'' said Lanou, author of "Healthy Eating for Life for >Children.'' "In fact, some research has even shown that vegan diets >may offer advantages for developing minds as well.'' > >Lifshitz, however, recommends that parents of vegetarian children >substitute protein foods including eggs and milk for meat. If the >family wants to go vegan, Lifshitz said, they should take vitamin and >mineral supplements "just to be sure.'' > >He said the greater the variety of foods that children have >available, the better their nutritional needs will be met. > >"All foods are good in moderation,'' he said. "Any extremes of >avoiding certain foods carries risks.'' > >Lifshitz said some cultures, such as those in India and other parts >of Asia, have a long history of raising children on vegetarian diets. >Parents there have experience in managing the diet to avoid >malnutrition. Parents in cultures without the same dietary history >may not have that know-how, he said. > >Some parents find that by adopting a vegetarian diet, their children >learn more about various food groups. > >"When it comes to vegetarianism, now they can sometimes be more >adamant than we are,'' Nita Hestevold said of Erik and Kara. > >Although the Hestevolds said they never expect anyone else to become >vegetarian because of them, and don't push their values on others, >sometimes their friends want to see what it's like to be a vegetarian. > >"Most of my friends have tried being vegetarian,'' Kara said, >smiling. "One tried and almost did, but they just couldn't stay away >from meat.'' > >Meredith Cummings writes for the Tuscaloosa News. > > > > , Margaret MacGregor > wrote: > > Hi > > > > > > I just joined up last night. My DH (Ian) and I are brand new > > vegetarians. We may go down the vegan path later on. Ian >announced > > his wish to go vegetarian > > in the car yesterday, saying he didn't like the way a lot of >animals, > > particularly chickens, were treated and that he no longer wanted to >eat > > them. I agree, > > and I'd like to know more about it. I'm sure none of the animals >lead > > a good life! > > > > We have a six year old daughter who has autism, and he wants her to > > continue eating meat! I don't, and feel that since she loves >things > > like vegetables, beans of all > > kinds, pasta and rice it would be an easy job to have her eating > > vegetarian, too. He's worried she won't get all the nutrients she > > needs. Is there anywhere/anything > > we can read which would make this clearer? I know many children >grow > > up to be healthier eating a vegetarian diet. I'm leery of her >being > > vegan, I must admit. > > > > I like to knit and crochet (I don't use wool; not for moral/ethical > > reasons, but it just doesn't get cold enough in San Jose to warrant > > wearing it and besides, it makes me > > itch!) When we go somewhere that gets cold, I wear polar fleece. > > > > Where can we get non-leather sneakers and belts? > > > > If anyone can suggest any reading matter for Ian and myself, please >do. > > > > Maggie > > San Jose CA > Half price modem, FREE connection and one month FREE - click here to sign up to BT Broadband. To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Hi Catherine, Congrats, sounds like it has worked wonderfully! Unfortunately I do very little of the cooking here, except for meself. DH is the stay at home man and I work from about 3:30 a.m. to anywhere between 5-8 p.m. So he is the main cook here and there is no chance of me " putting my foot down " . lol Besides, I figure he is entitled to his own choices and since he was so supportive of me when I went vegan, I too must be supportive of his choices as well. Whether I agree with them or not. Luckily, he is a wonderful and creative cook and actually creates new vegan meals for me from scratch some of the time. Some of which he joins me in as well. I still cannot get him or DS to eat anything green, but I do sneak stuff in some times. (shhh, don;t tell!) And he does try a lot of the foods I cook for myself as well. It is definately interesting at dinner time here as DS is a really picky eater and sometimes we are all eating something of our own, but sometimes we all get to share as well. I still get sick from the smells at times, but I have to let him live his life the way he chooses. Not to say that he does not support me and help, nor that I do not try to sway things my way, but we all have our paths and so far I'm pretty lucky with mine. And for a carnivore, DH makes one mean Vegan Chocolate Chip cookie! Just me own thoughts, not an opinion on yer's or anyone else's posts. Nikki Changing the world in baby steps , " Catherine Harris " <cait2@h...> wrote: > hi all, i have made some progress with my meat eater partner, and i thought i would share it with in case it helps anyone maintain their hope and their strategy...........we have been together 8 years........he loves meat.......but about 8 months ago, i put my foot down and said i would not cook, reheat, serve or handle meat .......and that every day i would cook a vegan meal from scratch, and he was entitled to eat with me or watch, whichever took his fancy....... so he bought kebabs, cooked things..........and one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli.......the whole house smelled of woderful vegan chilli............he gave in and ate some.......so at the moment he is eating chili, vegan soya bolognese, vegan sausages onion gravy and mash, so three or four meals a week are vegan.............. i dont say much to him about it, because he was very stubborn about meat............but when theres hot tasty food to be eaten, he caved in.......... i cross my fingers that it will continue catherine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2003 I think I may have made my post seem a bit rude or attacking, But I didn't mean to by any means, So I hope, Catherine I didn't offend you :-)Take Care,Sam.nikki_mackovitch <nikkimack wrote: Hi Catherine,Congrats, sounds like it has worked wonderfully! :)Unfortunately I do very little of the cooking here, except for meself. DH is the stay at home man and I work from about 3:30 a.m. to anywhere between 5-8 p.m. So he is the main cook here and there is no chance of me "putting my foot down". lol Besides, I figure he is entitled to his own choices and since he was so supportive of me when I went vegan, I too must be supportive of his choices as well. Whether I agree with them or not.Luckily, he is a wonderful and creative cook and actually creates new vegan meals for me from scratch some of the time. Some of which he joins me in as well. I still cannot get him or DS to eat anything green, but I do sneak stuff in some times. (shhh, don;t tell!) And he does try a lot of the foods I cook for myself as well.It is definately interesting at dinner time here as DS is a really picky eater and sometimes we are all eating something of our own, but sometimes we all get to share as well.I still get sick from the smells at times, but I have to let him live his life the way he chooses. Not to say that he does not support me and help, nor that I do not try to sway things my way, but we all have our paths and so far I'm pretty lucky with mine.And for a carnivore, DH makes one mean Vegan Chocolate Chip cookie!Just me own thoughts, not an opinion on yer's or anyone else's posts.Nikki :)Changing the world in baby steps , "Catherine Harris" <cait2@h...> wrote:> hi all,i have made some progress with my meat eater partner, and i thought i would share it with in case it helps anyone maintain their hope and their strategy...........we have been together 8 years........he loves meat.......but about 8 months ago, i put my foot down and said i would not cook, reheat, serve or handle meat .......and that every day i would cook a vegan meal from scratch, and he was entitled to eat with me or watch, whichever took his fancy.......so he bought kebabs, cooked things..........and one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli.......the whole house smelled of woderful vegan chilli............he gave in and ate some.......so at the moment he is eating chili, vegan soya bolognese, vegan sausages onion gravy and mash, so three or four meals a week are vegan..............i dont say much to him about it, because he was very stubborn about meat............but when theres hot tasty food to be eaten, he caved in..........i cross my fingers that it will continuecatherineTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2003 my recipe for chilli largs onion soya mince 2 tins red kidney beans tomato puree 6 cloves garlic (more if you want ) chilli oil teaspoon salt chopped jalpeno peppers, or hot pepper sauce chopped up sweet red pepper, large chop up onion and lightly brown in oil, add chilli oil, hot pepper sauce or hot pepers, sweet peppers, quickly stir combining flavour and lightly frying sweet red peppers. ....add everything else and some water to cover, put lid on and simmer for half an hour, then remove lid to thicken sauce.........serve with soya yoghurt as garnish, brown rice, salad made with avocado, tomatoes and onions chopped up with garlic salsa made from chopped fresh garlic, olive oil and lemon juice. tastes even better the next day for lunch if you make enough!!!!! catherine >Margaret MacGregor > > >Re: Re: New member >Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:50:52 -0700 > > >On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 09:40 AM, Heartwork wrote: > >> one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli. > >Catherine, > > >Any chance of posting the recipe? We all love chili here! > >Maggie Get a free connection, half-price modem and one month FREE, when you sign up for BT Broadband today! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2003 hi sam of course it is right to say that we all have choices about being vegan or not.........and i never evangelise about it..........but my partner was eating take aways every night, spending large amounts of money, put on 4 stone, and was so stubborn about his principle of not cooking if i wouldnt cook meat for him, that in the final analysis, all round, it is better for him, and myself, financially, healthwise that he is eating the meals i prepare.......... we are all responsible for our own health........but years of battling with him about his health mean going vegan, having healthy meals, lower fat, economical are in his best interest as well as mine.............. if he got sick because of overweight, it would be myself who would be responsible for him! catherine >sam hall > > >Re: Re: New member >Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:52:35 -0700 (PDT) > >Catherine- > I don't mean to sound rude at all! But... My bf and I have been together for a while as well and he also loves meat, And even though it's my choice to be Vegan & his to eat meat...I'd never in 100 yrs try to make him go vegan, I wouldn't object to it, But as being vegan is my choice, eatting meat is his & he's never once tried to change my views. I mean I'm not saying you absolutley made your partner because ultimatley it was his choice. I guess in my opinion I wouldn't do that... My boyfriend knows I will not cook the meat for him, but if he choices to do so and to eat it, thats his decision, not mine. That's just how I feel. Hope I didn't offend at all. >Take Care, >Sam. > >Catherine Harris wrote: > >hi all, > >i have made some progress with my meat eater partner, and i thought i would share it with in case it helps anyone maintain their hope and their strategy...........we have been together 8 years........he loves meat.......but about 8 months ago, i put my foot down and said i would not cook, reheat, serve or handle meat .......and that every day i would cook a vegan meal from scratch, and he was entitled to eat with me or watch, whichever took his fancy....... > >so he bought kebabs, cooked things..........and one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli.......the whole house smelled of woderful vegan chilli............he gave in and ate some.......so at the moment he is eating chili, vegan soya bolognese, vegan sausages onion gravy and mash, so three or four meals a week are vegan.............. > >i dont say much to him about it, because he was very stubborn about meat............but when theres hot tasty food to be eaten, he caved in.......... > >i cross my fingers that it will continue > >catherine > > > > > >"nikki_mackovitch" > > > > > > Re: New member > >Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:25:30 -0000 > > > >Hi Maggie and WELCOME! > > > >CONGRATS on yer decision to go veggie! > > > >Two books I highly recommend is Jon Robbin's "Diet For A New America" > >and another is "The Vegan Sourcebook" (cannot remember the authors > >name right now to save my life). Or even go to the library and look > >up vegetarian/vegan. You should find somewonderful resources there. > >The Vegan Sourcebook helped me out a lot because it listed the > >nutrients that the human body needs daily and wonderful ways for you > >to get it. It also has a lot of great recipes in it as well. > > > >I've also included below some info I got (maybe from this group??) on > >kids and vegetarian dites. It has helped me a lot with my 5 year old > >son. Unfortunately, my DH is still a carnivore and so is my son. But > >slowly they are experiencing new foods with me and do eat a lot of > >soy products with me now. But I think the house would have to burn > >down before either of them would allow something green to pass their > >lips. *sigh* tis a shame, guess I have to eat all of the brocolli > >Oh darn! > > > > > >A great website for recipes and info is www.vegweb.com or you can > >wait fer Fraggle to get back to the group and pound us with some of > >his. > > > >Hope this helps! > > > >nikki > >Everything alive is sacred; life delights in life. > >William Blake > > > > > > > >Article on kids and veggie diets: > > > > > >http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? > >AID=/20030903/NEWS/309030303/1004 > > > >Influenced by family or on their own, many young people turn to > >veggie diet > >By Meredith Cummings > >NYT Regional Newspapers > > > > > > TIPS FOR PARENTS > > The American Dietetic Association offers parents the following > >practical advice for helping vegetarian children meet their > >nutritional needs in healthful and tasty ways: > >* Calories and fat: Vegetarian children's diets sometimes tend to be > >high in fiber, filling their stomachs but making it difficult for > >them to consume the levels of energy they need. Avocados, nuts, > >seeds, dried fruits and soy products provide concentrated sources of > >calories. > >* Protein: Protein needs generally can be met by eating a variety of > >plant foods and having an adequate intake of calories. Foods high in > >protein include legumes, grains, soy products, nuts, dairy products > >and eggs. Grains such as rice, pasta, breads and cereals also provide > >protein. > >* Calcium: Good sources of calcium, especially for vegans, include > >calcium-fortified soy and rice milks and orange juice, tofu and dark > >green leafy vegetables. > >* Vitamin D: Children regularly exposed to appropriate levels of > >sunlight - 20 to 30 minutes per day on the hands and face, two to > >three times per week - apparently have no dietary requirement for > >vitamin D. Children with darker skin or who have limited exposure to > >sunlight may require vitamin supplements. Dietary sources of vitamin > >D include fortified cow's milk, some brands of soy or rice milk and > >most dry cereals. > >* Iron: Iron-deficiency anemia is the most common childhood > >nutritional problem, but it's no more likely to occur in vegetarian > >children than non-vegetarians. Good sources of iron include whole or > >enriched grains, iron-fortified cereals, legumes, green leafy > >vegetables and dried fruits. > >* Vitamin B12: Vegan children should eat foods fortified with vitamin > >B12, including fortified soy milk, fortified nutritional yeast and > >some breakfast cereals. > >* Zinc: Sources include legumes, hard cheeses, whole grain products, > >wheat germ, nuts and tofu. > >* * * > >Of course, children being children - vegetarian or not - means they > >can be picky eaters. To try to overcome this natural tendency, ADA > >offers some recommendations: > >* Offer choices of foods: Letting the child make some decisions can > >increase the acceptance of foods. > >* Make foods fun: Make pancakes in different shapes or with faces > >made from fruit, offer vegetables and dips, hide small pieces of > >fruit in yogurt. > >* Set a good example: Let children see you eating healthy foods. > >* Involve the child in food preparation: Young toddlers can tear up > >lettuce and put pieces of vegetables into a pot. Older preschoolers > >can wash vegetables, stir a fruit salad and help measure dry > >ingredients. > >* Keep mealtimes pleasant: Don't force a child to eat or use food as > >a reward. Try to stay calm about food refusals. > >- American Dietetic Association, 1998 > > > > > > Kara and Erik Hestevold put their plates forward for slices of > >chocolate cream pie. Not a bad way to wrap up a recent meal for the > >Hestevold children and their parents, Scott and Nita. > > > >But this pie was not ordinary. > > > >Its secret ingredient was tofu - whipped into a froth and mixed with > >chocolate. That may sound unappetizing to some, but it appeals to 9- > >year-old Kara and 14-year-old Erik. > > > >The Hestevolds are raising their children as vegetarians. About 1 > >million children ages 6 to 17 are vegetarians, according to the > >Vegetarian Resource Group, a nonprofit organization based in > >Baltimore. > > > >Vegetarians do not eat meat, fish or fowl. Vegans do not eat meat, > >fish or fowl and do not use other animal products such as dairy or > >eggs. > > > >Erik and Kara said they are sometimes teased, but that it's not as > >bad as it once was. They take their lunches to school each day and > >deal with offerings at birthday parties and other social events. > > > >"My true friends don't bug me about it,'' Erik said. "But then, some > >people will say things like, 'Do you take protein pills?' I've never > >heard of a protein pill. The closest thing to a protein pill is a > >bean.'' > > > >Books such as "Raising Vegetarian Children'' and "Cooking with Herb, > >the Vegetarian Dragon - A Cookbook for Kids'' sit in the Hestevolds' > >kitchen, showing how this Tuscaloosa family differs from neighbors > >who prefer the meat-and-veggies staples of the South. > > > >The Hestevold parents both ate meat for years before becoming > >vegetarians for moral reasons. > > > >Experts say that a well-planned vegetarian diet can be a healthy > >alternative to standard meat-based menus for all age groups. That > >includes during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and > >adolescence, the group said in a statement published in the June > >issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. > > > >A representative of the American Academy of Pediatrics concurred. > > > >"We agree that vegetarianism, especially the vegetarianism that does > >not eliminate milk, eggs and so on, is compatible with the normal > >dietary intake of a child and an adolescent,'' said Dr. Fima > >Lifshitz, director of pediatrics and a senior nutrition scientist at > >the Sansum Medical Research Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif. > > > >Lifshitz, however, cautions that more extreme > > > >- James Beard's"Beard on Pasta'' > > > >diets, such as those that eliminate all animal products, can be > >dangerous if not managed correctly. There have been well-publicized > >cases of malnutrition in children with restrictive diets. > > > >Parents say the challenges of raising vegetarian children change over > >time, but most agree that one issue is contending with other people. > >Whether it's in-laws who don't agree with parents' choices or helping > >children handle teasing or peer pressure, parental duties can be > >difficult. > > > >"Teaching our kids to navigate in a world which is so fundamentally > >different from what we believe is right as far as nutrition and > >animal welfare is sometimes difficult,'' said Melanie Wilson, > >publisher of Vegetarian Baby and Child Magazine and > >Vegetarianteen.com Online Magazine. She has two daughters who are > >vegans, ages 5 and 18 months. > > > >Parents who are thinking of raising children as vegetarians - or > >switching to vegetarianism - must do research, said Reed Mangels, > >nutrition adviser for the Vegetarian Resource Group. For the first > >six or seven months of life, a vegetarian or vegan baby's diet should > >not differ from that of a nonvegetarian. But once the time comes when > >meat would normally be introduced to the baby, parents need to find > >alternative sources of protein, such as yogurt, cottage cheese, soy > >and dry beans. > > > >Mangels, an author of books on vegetarianism, said some parents > >mistakenly try to make their own baby formula. If a vegetarian baby > >cannot be breast-fed, she said, always buy formula from the store. > > > >"Breast-feeding is the very best way to go whether you're vegetarian > >or not,'' Mangels said. "If that's not possible, then infant formula > >is the only other choice. I think that's important because, > >sometimes, a vegetarian will say, 'Oh, I drink soy milk so it must be > >OK for my baby,' but that won't work for the baby.'' > > > >The Hestevolds' decision to raise their children as vegetarians was a > >natural one since they are vegetarians. But some families decide to > >switch to vegetarianism when their children are older. > > > >Making the switch takes time, but children adapt easily and can soon > >get the hang of new foods. Meanwhile, providing familiar foods can > >help, Mangels said. > > > >Families switch to vegetarianism in many ways. Some parents choose to > >have the whole family switch, often when health concerns are an > >issue. Others let children transition gradually, selecting what they > >want to eat outside the home, for example, but having only vegetarian > >food in the home. Still others simply set a healthy example. > > > >"I've also heard from a lot of families in which one parent is > >vegetarian, but the other is not. Many families, like ours in the > >beginning, get along just fine because one parent agrees to raise the > >kids vegetarian even though he or she is not,'' Wilson said. "My > >husband, for example, ate vegetarian at home, but he would often > >order meat in a restaurant.'' > > > >"Many families experience some level of stress when making the > >transition, and it's important to remember that each of us is on his > >or her own path in life,'' she said. "There needs to be acceptance > >within the family for members who choose to eat meat, for those who > >occasionally eat meat, as well as for those who are adamant about not > >eating any animal's products.'' > > > >Some teen-agers decide to become vegetarians for their own reasons, > >because their friends are, or because they have a newfound sense of > >moral, ethical or environmental awareness. Wilson said that when this > >happens, many parents don't research vegetarianism and are unable to > >help the teen-ager make healthy choices. > > > >"Some do this because they think it's a phase which will pass, others > >because they feel that it's an insult to their parenting or beliefs > >that their child has chosen vegetarianism and still others because > >they hope to force the teen back into eating meat by not offering > >options,'' Wilson said. > > > >Lifshitz said these young people are particularly vulnerable to > >nutritional deficiencies. > > > >"The adolescents are the ones that worry me more because they are > >often on their own,'' without the guidance of parents or others who > >know how to manage a vegetarian diet, he said. > > > >Nutritionists agree that parents of vegetarians must play a major > >role in educating their children, whether teens or babies, about > >nutrition, just as any parents do. Scott Hestevold, for example, said > >his children have been taught to plan meals with complete protein, > >such as dishes that combine pasta with legumes. > > > >"With all the information now available about the long-term health > >benefits of plant-based diets, there is really no question that the > >vegan diet is safe - in fact, it offers the most disease-fighting > >protection of any dietary pattern,'' said Amy Lanou, nutrition > >director for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine in a > >statement on the group's Web site. > > > >"Studies show that a meat-free vegan diet rich in fruits, vegetables, > >whole grains, and legumes offers clear advantages to growing > >bodies,'' said Lanou, author of "Healthy Eating for Life for > >Children.'' "In fact, some research has even shown that vegan diets > >may offer advantages for developing minds as well.'' > > > >Lifshitz, however, recommends that parents of vegetarian children > >substitute protein foods including eggs and milk for meat. If the > >family wants to go vegan, Lifshitz said, they should take vitamin and > >mineral supplements "just to be sure.'' > > > >He said the greater the variety of foods that children have > >available, the better their nutritional needs will be met. > > > >"All foods are good in moderation,'' he said. "Any extremes of > >avoiding certain foods carries risks.'' > > > >Lifshitz said some cultures, such as those in India and other parts > >of Asia, have a long history of raising children on vegetarian diets. > >Parents there have experience in managing the diet to avoid > >malnutrition. Parents in cultures without the same dietary history > >may not have that know-how, he said. > > > >Some parents find that by adopting a vegetarian diet, their children > >learn more about various food groups. > > > >"When it comes to vegetarianism, now they can sometimes be more > >adamant than we are,'' Nita Hestevold said of Erik and Kara. > > > >Although the Hestevolds said they never expect anyone else to become > >vegetarian because of them, and don't push their values on others, > >sometimes their friends want to see what it's like to be a vegetarian. > > > >"Most of my friends have tried being vegetarian,'' Kara said, > >smiling. "One tried and almost did, but they just couldn't stay away > >from meat.'' > > > >Meredith Cummings writes for the Tuscaloosa News. > > > > > > > > , Margaret MacGregor > > wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > I just joined up last night. My DH (Ian) and I are brand new > > > vegetarians. We may go down the vegan path later on. Ian > >announced > > > his wish to go vegetarian > > > in the car yesterday, saying he didn't like the way a lot of > >animals, > > > particularly chickens, were treated and that he no longer wanted to > >eat > > > them. I agree, > > > and I'd like to know more about it. I'm sure none of the animals > >lead > > > a good life! > > > > > > We have a six year old daughter who has autism, and he wants her to > > > continue eating meat! I don't, and feel that since she loves > >things > > > like vegetables, beans of all > > > kinds, pasta and rice it would be an easy job to have her eating > > > vegetarian, too. He's worried she won't get all the nutrients she > > > needs. Is there anywhere/anything > > > we can read which would make this clearer? I know many children > >grow > > > up to be healthier eating a vegetarian diet. I'm leery of her > >being > > > vegan, I must admit. > > > > > > I like to knit and crochet (I don't use wool; not for moral/ethical > > > reasons, but it just doesn't get cold enough in San Jose to warrant > > > wearing it and besides, it makes me > > > itch!) When we go somewhere that gets cold, I wear polar fleece. > > > > > > Where can we get non-leather sneakers and belts? > > > > > > If anyone can suggest any reading matter for Ian and myself, please > >do. > > > > > > Maggie > > > San Jose CA > > > > > > >Half price modem, FREE connection and one month FREE - click here to sign up to BT Broadband. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
