Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:12 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:28 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most > > > > > > > successful > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > vastness > > > > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner > > > > > observer.....that > > > > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner > > > > > observer? > > > > > > > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > > > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness > > > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it > > > > > means > > > > > I > > > > > am not it. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biiiiiingo! > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > That is the whole " point " is it not? > > > > The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum > > > > snap > > > > evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested > > > > no-thingness. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > No, it is being the suffering without identifying with it. > > > > > > Not escaping into some never-never land of not-manifested no-thingness. > > > > > > The suffering itself is the emptiness. > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > " it is being the suffering without identifying with it. " > > > In what manner that is different from " empty not-knowable non-manifested > > > no-thingness. " ? > > > Is any of those expressions identical with it? > > > -geo- > > > > Just be it. > > > > You'll never explain it or express it. > > > > - D - > > > > Trying to be it is about as hard as trying not to be it. > > LOL > > toombaru > > Well...I suppose there is no way to put the nature of this " action " that > ends in non-fragmentation in words. > -geo- It is like opening a can of soup and putting it by your bed. Then going to sleep so you can offer soup to the characters in your dream of last night. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:39 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:25 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > > > > all > > > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > > > > > > The attempt to establish something that is the source of fear, *is* fear. > > > > > > > > >Profound fear for inexistent > > > > > causes, great anguish for fear of loosing imagined stuff.....all this > > > > > affects the body/mind... > > > > > > > > There aren't any final explanations for the fear you are - there is simply > > > > being it. > > > > > > > > This is not for the squeamish. > > > > > > > > The fear of death is like a poison the alters the > > > > > organic balance of the body/mind delicate balance. What about jealousy, > > > > > panic...lots and lots of more reactions that shoot wrong enzims, > > > > > inapropriate hormones, harmfull discharges all over the organism..I really > > > > > dont get you here... > > > > > > > > Fear is much more than the biological observations you've learned about. > > > > > > > > It is the basis for the establishment of the science that produced these > > > > observations about the biochemistry of fear. > > > > > > > > > PS - Not the inexistent self - of course - but the sense of " as if " . > > > > > > > > Sure - but learning about the " as if " nature of human nature, is itself an > > > > " as if. " > > > > > > > > In other words, there is no refuge available from fear and suffering, and > > > > the pain humans inflict on each other, by surmising an " as if " condition > > > > involved. Learning that this is a dream, is itself learning in a dream. > > > > > > > > The attraction for the dream is to attempt to get away into a reality that > > > > can be controlled somehow. > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > All I said is that living with the imagined center harms the organism: the > > > > need for fforts from morning till night and night till morning. > > > > You are talking of something else. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Not really. > > > > > > But you think so. > > > > > > Do you understand the fear you are? > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > Now.....that's a double scoop of scary! > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Being open to the fear one is, understanding directly the extent of it - is the door to understanding. > > The contraction of awareness away from itself, the misunderstanding, ends here. > > All splitting and self-deceit is surrendered. > > Everything known about advaita goes out the window. > > Everything known about " no self " dissolves ... > > Just this. > > End of story. > > - D - > Should I pack a lunch? :-0 toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:23 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:15 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tim G. > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:51 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Nop. There are real sufferings and imagined ones. > > > -geo- > > > > Nope. > > > > There is an end to analysis. > > > > The need to make the distinction between real and imagined ends. > > > > One is the suffering. > > > > One stops evading and thinking one has things figured out. > > > > It is the end of having anything figured out. > > > > Go figure. > > > > -- D -- > > > > How can I be the suffering that I am looking at? > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can " you " be anything? > > toombaru > > Yes..you see...there is a funny thing that happens here, no? At one point I > am everything - no doubt about that. Everything that falls upon the senses > are me. > But then ..........if I am able to look at that....I am not that. I am > gone.... > -geo- So, you are commenting about how you saw that you were gone? You are not here, so you're telling us that you're not here. Just so we know how not here you are, I guess. LOL. -- D -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:12 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:28 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most > > > > > > > > successful > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > vastness > > > > > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner > > > > > > observer.....that > > > > > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner > > > > > > observer? > > > > > > > > > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > > > > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness > > > > > > that > > > > > > is > > > > > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it > > > > > > means > > > > > > I > > > > > > am not it. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biiiiiingo! > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > That is the whole " point " is it not? > > > > > The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum > > > > > snap > > > > > evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested > > > > > no-thingness. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > No, it is being the suffering without identifying with it. > > > > > > > > Not escaping into some never-never land of not-manifested no-thingness. > > > > > > > > The suffering itself is the emptiness. > > > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > > > " it is being the suffering without identifying with it. " > > > > In what manner that is different from " empty not-knowable non-manifested > > > > no-thingness. " ? > > > > Is any of those expressions identical with it? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Just be it. > > > > > > You'll never explain it or express it. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > Trying to be it is about as hard as trying not to be it. > > > > LOL > > > > toombaru > > > > Well...I suppose there is no way to put the nature of this " action " that > > ends in non-fragmentation in words. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes I try talking with my lips glued shut. > > > > toombaru Yes, Keanu Reeves played you in the Matrix. You're world-famous. Famous Amos Toombaru. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > Being open to the fear one is, understanding directly the extent of it - is the door to understanding. > > > > The contraction of awareness away from itself, the misunderstanding, ends here. > > > > All splitting and self-deceit is surrendered. > > > > Everything known about advaita goes out the window. > > > > Everything known about " no self " dissolves ... > > > > Just this. > > > > End of story. > > > > - D - > > > > > > > Should I pack a lunch? > > > > > :-0 > > > > > toombaru Sorry, nothing is brought along. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:36 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:20 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:08 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:31 AM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most > > > > > > > > successful > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > vastness > > > > > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner > > > > > > observer.....that > > > > > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner > > > > > > observer? > > > > > > > > > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > > > > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness > > > > > > that > > > > > > is > > > > > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it > > > > > > means > > > > > > I > > > > > > am not it. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > It is you. > > > > > > > > > > There is no one else to be this, other than you. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > It is the same. But you said no - so you missed it. > > > > > The world is my empty patterns, there is no other. The same. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > No, you got it wrong, Geo, and I got it right. > > > > > > > > There aren't two of us. > > > > > > > > See, I know that. > > > > > > > > How come you don't? > > > > > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > Smiles and wishes for a great day - > > > > > > > > - Dan > > > > > > > > Yes...it depends what you want from all this. Sometimes it is good to > > > > use > > > > words with care and attention > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not when it is apprehended that the sense of self emerges concurrently > > > with > > > the words....and that the imaginary entity really has no responsibility > > > for > > > what spills out of their mouth. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > I get the idea...but it is possible to think , speak, imagine without any > > > imaginary entity. Nothing falls of the pans borders - or everything. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. > > > > The imaginary entity and the words are the same phenomenon. > > > > For it.....there is nothing beyond the objectified world. > > > > Try to think of something that doesn't have a name. > > > > The entity is map that it tries to explore. > > > > toombaru > > > > Dont go for the " no " too fast. All and everything, without exception, is > > consciousness/world. That includes words, imagination, sex, plot, nexus, > > names, no-names, maps, look.....all changing arisings are over there. But > > none of those is the unchanging. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A small sign over the door: > > > " Unchanging Room " toombaru I'll throw you and your buddy geo some spare change. You could use some. Stop your delusion now, please. I asked nicely. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:39 AM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:25 PM > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or > > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it > > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > > > > > > > > The attempt to establish something that is the source of fear, *is* fear. > > > > > > > > > > >Profound fear for inexistent > > > > > > causes, great anguish for fear of loosing imagined stuff.....all this > > > > > > affects the body/mind... > > > > > > > > > > There aren't any final explanations for the fear you are - there is simply > > > > > being it. > > > > > > > > > > This is not for the squeamish. > > > > > > > > > > The fear of death is like a poison the alters the > > > > > > organic balance of the body/mind delicate balance. What about jealousy, > > > > > > panic...lots and lots of more reactions that shoot wrong enzims, > > > > > > inapropriate hormones, harmfull discharges all over the organism..I really > > > > > > dont get you here... > > > > > > > > > > Fear is much more than the biological observations you've learned about. > > > > > > > > > > It is the basis for the establishment of the science that produced these > > > > > observations about the biochemistry of fear. > > > > > > > > > > > PS - Not the inexistent self - of course - but the sense of " as if " . > > > > > > > > > > Sure - but learning about the " as if " nature of human nature, is itself an > > > > > " as if. " > > > > > > > > > > In other words, there is no refuge available from fear and suffering, and > > > > > the pain humans inflict on each other, by surmising an " as if " condition > > > > > involved. Learning that this is a dream, is itself learning in a dream. > > > > > > > > > > The attraction for the dream is to attempt to get away into a reality that > > > > > can be controlled somehow. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > All I said is that living with the imagined center harms the organism: the > > > > > need for fforts from morning till night and night till morning. > > > > > You are talking of something else. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Not really. > > > > > > > > But you think so. > > > > > > > > Do you understand the fear you are? > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now.....that's a double scoop of scary! > > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Being open to the fear one is, understanding directly the extent of it - is the door to understanding. > > > > The contraction of awareness away from itself, the misunderstanding, ends here. > > > > All splitting and self-deceit is surrendered. > > > > Everything known about advaita goes out the window. > > > > Everything known about " no self " dissolves ... > > > > Just this. > > > > End of story. > > > > - D - > > > > > > > Should I pack a lunch? > > > > > :-0 > > > > > toombaru Too late. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg wrote: > > Ha, I guess I got to ya, eh? Look at your kneejerking reactions and personal attacks. Some egoless, hep, cool-ass-enlightened person you're proving to be, eh? > > As if. > > Geo at least has this air of innocence and can be forgiven for being over confident, but from the way you sling the concepts here, it is easy to see that you've done some homework, but since you choose to kill the messenger instead of countering my statements with your own more logical statements or bring in new but pertinent facts to a discussion, you come off like a kid with a cap gun pretending to be a mofo. > > Your snide attitude -- where can it be found in an Advaitan teacher > extant? You attitude is fucking shameful. Odious. You, you, you. *I'm* not the problem. Nevah. *I'm* the kid with a cap gun, pretending to be a mofo, and unaware of it, as I'm too focused on shooting it at a mind-constructed 'other' ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:06 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > douglasmitch1963 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:00 AM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:44 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:14 AM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most > > > > > > > successful > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that > > > > > > does > > > > > > or > > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > > > > > > give > > > > > > it > > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " > > > > > is > > > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > It is not due to ego. The belief IS the " as if " ego itself. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nobody knows.... > > > > > > > > except the ego. > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > nobody there who need such " imaginary knowledge " (ego) for > > > > real...anyway... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > It seems that sometimes imagination seems to issue from some separate > > > > imaginer. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > imaginer " geo " , > > > > > > " geo " Is....all this nice imaginations, words and worlds in here, > > > inclusive > > > > > > there are indeed no seperations between " geo " and " geo " ... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > To the reader " geo " is an image. > > > To the writer it is a means to facilitate commucation. They are not the > > > same. > > > -geo- > > > > > >Geo, why the daily obsessive compulsive need to reply to every posting > > >that > > >is there before/when you logged on? Are you the Advaita police? > > > > geo> I have been doing it for a month or two now and it has helped me to > > have a better understanding of things. I love to digg into this matter. > > Concerning " advaita " ...I think the first time I heard about it was a > > couple > > of month ago when I first read Nis. and later on this list. It is not an > > obssession though... > > Do you feel I am overdoing it? Am I being agressive or something? I am > > interested to know what kind of image geo is projecting now. > > -geo- > > > > > you were told that you project the image of an " Advaita Police " .... > > Marc > > Really? > -geo- > > > the wrong question ...for your image... Marc > > > > > > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 > Tested on: 11/8/2009 12:46:16 > avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or has or sees. > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is due to ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > Marc > > It has to be. > > It has no choice. > > That is why it isn't doing anything. > > - D - > ego has no choice, yes except to stop to take appearent choices.... yes, then there is nobody anymore who is doing anything everything is just done Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > the wrong question ...for your image... > > Marc The real problem for 'the image' is not even really that it's merely an image, has no reality. It's that everyone 'sees' their own image in others. Thus, everyone's image is a collage of other images. All of them completely imaginary. Like a mirage built of mirages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > ... > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > You have a real Self? > > :-0 > > > > toombaru > real Self is all there is for real... little restless imaginary egos can't see It... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > the wrong question ...for your image... > > > > Marc > > The real problem for 'the image' is not even really that it's merely an image, has no reality. > > It's that everyone 'sees' their own image in others. > > Thus, everyone's image is a collage of other images. > > All of them completely imaginary. > > Like a mirage built of mirages. > better you don't search for any imagine... we wouldn't waste then all this imaginary time and imaginary little selfs we are dreaming to be......in reading all this your meaningless words.....written for nobody but yourSelf alone Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > You have a real Self? > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > real Self is all there is for real... > > little restless imaginary egos can't see It... > > > Marc Toom seems allergic to the pointer " the Self " , for whatever it's worth. Most of the time, this is due to wanting to be rid of oneself, which is a form of holding onto oneself, as one has to be separate from what one wants to be rid of. So there ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a real Self? > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > real Self is all there is for real... > > > > little restless imaginary egos can't see It... > > > > > > Marc > > Toom seems allergic to the pointer " the Self " , for whatever it's worth. > > Most of the time, this is due to wanting to be rid of oneself, > > which is a form of holding onto oneself, as one has to be separate from what one wants to be rid of. > > So there ;-). at least during deep sleep....toom will get It.... Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a real Self? > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > real Self is all there is for real... > > > > little restless imaginary egos can't see It... > > > > > > Marc > > Toom seems allergic to the pointer " the Self " , for whatever it's worth. > > Most of the time, this is due to wanting to be rid of oneself, > > which is a form of holding onto oneself, as one has to be separate from what one wants to be rid of. > > So there ;-). P.S. the interesting thing, from here, is that Toom accepts some of what Ramana Maharshi said, but not other parts (e.g. he spoke extensively of The Self). Ironically, this is what selves do... pick and choose what suits them in sages' teachings, rather than conclude " OK, this fellow is genuine " , and go about looking to see what the poor fellow was trying to communicate, as a whole. This is because the 'goal' of the self is to survive as an imaginarily continuous entity. And so, nothing that could trouble this goal is ever looked too closely at. Thus, when Ramana talks about " the Self " he's wrong in some way, but when Ramana says this or that (which fits the 'me's' safety limits) he's right. I guess Ramana was 'awake' part of the time, and 'asleep' the other part, or something, right? :-p. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > > > > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a real Self? > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > real Self is all there is for real... > > > > > > little restless imaginary egos can't see It... > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > Toom seems allergic to the pointer " the Self " , for whatever it's worth. > > > > Most of the time, this is due to wanting to be rid of oneself, > > > > which is a form of holding onto oneself, as one has to be separate from what one wants to be rid of. > > > > So there ;-). > > P.S. the interesting thing, from here, is that Toom accepts some of what Ramana Maharshi said, but not other parts (e.g. he spoke extensively of The Self). > > Ironically, this is what selves do... pick and choose what suits them in sages' teachings, rather than conclude " OK, this fellow is genuine " , and go about looking to see what the poor fellow was trying to communicate, as a whole. > > This is because the 'goal' of the self is to survive as an imaginarily continuous entity. And so, nothing that could trouble this goal is ever looked too closely at. > > Thus, when Ramana talks about " the Self " he's wrong in some way, but when Ramana says this or that (which fits the 'me's' safety limits) he's right. > > I guess Ramana was 'awake' part of the time, and 'asleep' the other part, or something, right? :-p. > " Ramana " is the Self.... ....like all others who are finished with this their little imaginary ego & world.... means, with their choiceless path to Self Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > " Ramana " is the Self.... " Ramana " is a word, that may or may not bring up an associated mental picture. For one who's never heard of him, it may sound like the brand name of a car, like the Toyota Ramana ;-). Who knows. > ...like all others who are finished with this their little imaginary > ego & world.... > > means, with their choiceless path to Self Whatever the above words mean to ya, is fine here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > " Ramana " is the Self.... > > " Ramana " is a word, that may or may not bring up an associated mental picture. > > For one who's never heard of him, it may sound like the brand name of a car, like the Toyota Ramana ;-). Who knows. whoever get in touch with " Ramana " , however....get in touch with Self whoever, for some reason, don't get in touch with Self....will not get in touch with " Ramana " .... > > > ...like all others who are finished with this their little imaginary > ego & world.... > > > > means, with their choiceless path to Self > > Whatever the above words mean to ya, is fine here. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:19 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:44 AM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:14 AM > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is > > > > > > due > > > > > > to > > > > > > ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not due to ego. The belief IS the " as if " ego itself. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nobody knows.... > > > > > > > > > > except the ego. > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > nobody there who need such " imaginary knowledge " (ego) for > > > > > real...anyway... > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > It seems that sometimes imagination seems to issue from some separate > > > > > imaginer. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imaginer " geo " , > > > > > > > > " geo " Is....all this nice imaginations, words and worlds in here, > > > > inclusive > > > > > > > > there are indeed no seperations between " geo " and " geo " ... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > To the reader " geo " is an image. > > > > To the writer it is a means to facilitate commucation. They are not the > > > > same. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > reader and writer " geo " are imaginary > > > > > > also reader and writer " marc " are imaginary > > > > > > .... > > > > > > they get real, when there is a " reader or writer " " geo or marc " reading or > > > writing.... > > > > > > ... > > > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > There is no need for fragmentation in order to write or do anything. IT is > > > always doing IT. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > this your " IT " is just " geo " who is allergic when it comes to fragmentations.....or differentiation between real and unreal. > > > > " geo " (or this your imaginary " IT " ), of course, is always the cause of fragmentations.....because thats the nature of imaginations & fictions like " geo " ... > > > > > > Marc > > Yes. > > And this is not aimed at a " geo " but at any identifiable thought-stream, so to speak. > > The nature of any thought-stream with attempted self-continuity of themes, feelings, processes is to split - because that is the basis for any sense of continuity it has. > > Thought requires apparent division for a sense of continuity. > > > -- D -- > yes.... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > douglasmitch1963 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:00 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 AM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:44 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:14 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > > > of > > > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > to > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that > > > > > does > > > > > or > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > > > > > give > > > > > it > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is > > > > due > > > > to > > > > ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > It is not due to ego. The belief IS the " as if " ego itself. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nobody knows.... > > > > > > except the ego. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > nobody there who need such " imaginary knowledge " (ego) for > > > real...anyway... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > It seems that sometimes imagination seems to issue from some separate > > > imaginer. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > imaginer " geo " , > > > > " geo " Is....all this nice imaginations, words and worlds in here, > > inclusive > > > > there are indeed no seperations between " geo " and " geo " ... > > > > Marc > > > > To the reader " geo " is an image. > > To the writer it is a means to facilitate commucation. They are not the > > same. > > -geo- > > > >Geo, why the daily obsessive compulsive need to reply to every posting that > >is there before/when you logged on? Are you the Advaita police? > > geo> I have been doing it for a month or two now and it has helped me to > have a better understanding of things. I love to digg into this matter. > Concerning " advaita " ...I think the first time I heard about it was a couple > of month ago when I first read Nis. and later on this list. It is not an > obssession though... > Do you feel I am overdoing it? Am I being agressive or something? I am > interested to know what kind of image geo is projecting now. > -geo- > > > Hi Geo, now that i understand your intentions, you are not the advaita police...just a serious " seeker " for lack of a better word. Have at it my friend! Doug > > > > > > avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 > Tested on: 11/8/2009 10:23:51 > avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 12, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 3:06 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:37 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:23 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:15 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:51 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the > > > > > same. > > > > > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Nop. There are real sufferings and imagined ones. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Nope. > > > > > > There is an end to analysis. > > > > > > The need to make the distinction between real and imagined ends. > > > > > > One is the suffering. > > > > > > One stops evading and thinking one has things figured out. > > > > > > It is the end of having anything figured out. > > > > > > Go figure. > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > How can I be the suffering that I am looking at? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can " you " be anything? > > > > toombaru > > > > Yes..you see...there is a funny thing that happens here, no? At one > > point > > I > > am everything - no doubt about that. Everything that falls upon the > > senses > > are me. > > But then ..........if I am able to look at that....I am not that. I am > > gone.... > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah.....that's call enlightenment. > > toombaru > > NOOOOOOOooooooooo........ please...leave me out of that!!!! Let me stay in > the darkness. I prefer this side of it. > -geo- > > > > > > > I told you that this is not what you had in mind. toombaru LOL LOL LOL -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 12, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 3:08 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:36 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 2:20 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:08 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:31 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the > > > > > > > > body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most > > > > > > > successful > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own > > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > vastness > > > > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner > > > > > observer.....that > > > > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner > > > > > observer? > > > > > > > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > > > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the > > > > > awareness > > > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at > > > > > it > > > > > means > > > > > I > > > > > am not it. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > It is you. > > > > > > > > There is no one else to be this, other than you. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > It is the same. But you said no - so you missed it. > > > > The world is my empty patterns, there is no other. The same. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > No, you got it wrong, Geo, and I got it right. > > > > > > There aren't two of us. > > > > > > See, I know that. > > > > > > How come you don't? > > > > > > LOL. > > > > > > Smiles and wishes for a great day - > > > > > > - Dan > > > > > > Yes...it depends what you want from all this. Sometimes it is good to > > > use > > > words with care and attention > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not when it is apprehended that the sense of self emerges concurrently > > with > > the words....and that the imaginary entity really has no responsibility > > for > > what spills out of their mouth. > > > > :-) > > > > toombaru > > > > I get the idea...but it is possible to think , speak, imagine without > > any > > imaginary entity. Nothing falls of the pans borders - or everything. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. > > The imaginary entity and the words are the same phenomenon. > > For it.....there is nothing beyond the objectified world. > > Try to think of something that doesn't have a name. > > The entity is map that it tries to explore. > > toombaru > > Dont go for the " no " too fast. All and everything, without exception, is > consciousness/world. That includes words, imagination, sex, plot, nexus, > names, no-names, maps, look.....all changing arisings are over there. But > none of those is the unchanging. > -geo- > > > > > > > A small sign over the door: " Unchanging Room " toombaru Yes. Nobady ever changed in there...LOL -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a real Self? > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > real Self is all there is for real... > > > > little restless imaginary egos can't see It... > > > > > > Marc > > Toom seems allergic to the pointer " the Self " , for whatever it's worth. > > Most of the time, this is due to wanting to be rid of oneself, > > which is a form of holding onto oneself, as one has to be separate from what one wants to be rid of. > > So there ;-). > The entire big S self and little s self is merely another twist of God and me thinking. There is no little self. There is no big self. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 12, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > > > > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a real Self? > > > > > > > > :-0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > real Self is all there is for real... > > > > > > little restless imaginary egos can't see It... > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > Toom seems allergic to the pointer " the Self " , for whatever it's worth. > > > > Most of the time, this is due to wanting to be rid of oneself, > > > > which is a form of holding onto oneself, as one has to be separate from what one wants to be rid of. > > > > So there ;-). > > P.S. the interesting thing, from here, is that Toom accepts some of what Ramana Maharshi said, but not other parts (e.g. he spoke extensively of The Self). > > Ironically, this is what selves do... pick and choose what suits them in sages' teachings, rather than conclude " OK, this fellow is genuine " , and go about looking to see what the poor fellow was trying to communicate, as a whole. > > This is because the 'goal' of the self is to survive as an imaginarily continuous entity. And so, nothing that could trouble this goal is ever looked too closely at. > > Thus, when Ramana talks about " the Self " he's wrong in some way, but when Ramana says this or that (which fits the 'me's' safety limits) he's right. > > I guess Ramana was 'awake' part of the time, and 'asleep' the other part, or something, right? :-p. > Ramana got some things right......but an enlightened cow......cooooome oooooooooooooonnn. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
