Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > There aren't any final explanations for the fear you are - there is > > simply being it. > > > > > > > > This is not for the squeamish. > > > > > > This is not for anyone. > > > > > > Nobody chooses this. > > > > > > It certainly wasn't chosen 'here'. > > > > > > Many sages have uttered the words, " you don't want this " . > > > > > > Just a fact, stated and re-stated. > > > > > > Of course, such a statement attracts 'seekers'. > > > > LOL. > > > > It sure creates a hullabaloo. > > > > I'm ready for a new TV theme show: " Nondual Hullabaloo. " > > > > Celebrating the nondual meme. > > > > Guaranteed to end suffering. > > > > All you have to do is learn to say, " there is no seeker, the search is ended, " and learn how to keep a smile on your face when anyone is looking. > > > > Instant enlightenment, just mix with water. > > > > No fuss, no muss. > > > > Funny ... > > > > - Dan - > > There ya go... > > Starring Jerry Springer, and Jerry Katz ;-). > > With " heron moon " and " anabebe " duking it out, soaking wet. > > Weeknights at 5... Funny! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > > > One form of " suffering " is substantial. > A broken leg hurts. > One form is imaginary. > Losing one's lover.......hurts. > > > > toombaru That distinction is itself imaginary and insubstantial. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dennis_travis33 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:06 AM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > douglasmitch1963 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:00 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 AM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:44 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:14 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most > > > > > > successful > > > > > > of > > > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > to > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that > > > > > does > > > > > or > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > > > > > give > > > > > it > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " > > > > is > > > > due > > > > to > > > > ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > It is not due to ego. The belief IS the " as if " ego itself. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nobody knows.... > > > > > > except the ego. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > nobody there who need such " imaginary knowledge " (ego) for > > > real...anyway... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > It seems that sometimes imagination seems to issue from some separate > > > imaginer. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > imaginer " geo " , > > > > " geo " Is....all this nice imaginations, words and worlds in here, > > inclusive > > > > there are indeed no seperations between " geo " and " geo " ... > > > > Marc > > > > To the reader " geo " is an image. > > To the writer it is a means to facilitate commucation. They are not the > > same. > > -geo- > > > >Geo, why the daily obsessive compulsive need to reply to every posting > >that > >is there before/when you logged on? Are you the Advaita police? > > geo> I have been doing it for a month or two now and it has helped me to > have a better understanding of things. I love to digg into this matter. > Concerning " advaita " ...I think the first time I heard about it was a > couple > of month ago when I first read Nis. and later on this list. It is not an > obssession though... > Do you feel I am overdoing it? Am I being agressive or something? I am > interested to know what kind of image geo is projecting now. > -geo- > > you were told that you project the image of an " Advaita Police " .... Marc Really? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 11/8/2009 12:46:16 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > > > > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > One form of " suffering " is substantial. > > > A broken leg hurts. > > > One form is imaginary. > > > Losing one's lover.......hurts. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > This is very, very important, isn't it? > > > > To keep on conceptually separating things. > > > > Very, very important to maintain this momentum. > > > > > > > No more important than your compulsion to push your imaginary things together. > > > > > toombaru It's me against you, except that I know there isn't any me. Sure. Smiles, - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or has or sees. > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is due to ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > Marc It has to be. It has no choice. That is why it isn't doing anything. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - duveyoung Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:48 AM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > >Geo, why the daily obsessive compulsive need to reply to every posting > >that > >is there before/when you logged on? Are you the Advaita police? > > geo> I have been doing it for a month or two now and it has helped me to > have a better understanding of things. I love to digg into this matter. > Concerning " advaita " ...I think the first time I heard about it was a > couple > of month ago when I first read Nis. and later on this list. It is not an > obssession though... > Do you feel I am overdoing it? Am I being agressive or something? I am > interested to know what kind of image geo is projecting now. > -geo- Geo, Man, just where in the fuck do you get off spouting like you do? Here you are puking words like a psychotic parrot. TWO FUCKING MONTHS?????? TWO FUCKING MONTHS and you're here posing as a " knower of reality who can juggle the Advaitan concepts and be unshakably consistent? " TWO FUCKING MONTHS and you're high-hatting and rib poking anyone and everyone with your inane blurbs that completely reveal your inability to grasp Advaita? If you're that smart, ya shudda taken up brain surgery instead of trying to impress the chuckleheads here who are not much clearer than you. If you were anywhere near to what you're posing to be, you sure wouldn't be posting here obsessively like a person scratching a rash. You are doing the equivalent of stealing a white coat and sneaking into a laboratory and just mixing chemicals at random while pretending to everyone in the lab that you're some sort of hotshot....and all you're doing is randomly mixing just in the hope that some sort of small reaction takes place so that you can brag that that is some insanely fucking great achievement and proof that you deserve to wear that white coat. TWO FUCKING MONTHS? TWO FUCKING MONTHS? Well, at last, it gels. You aren't crazy, you aren't stupid, but son-of-a-bitching-christ you're brazenly uneducated and grossly disrupting an advanced dialog about subtleties that historically a neophyte would mull over for decades in a cave before uttering a word about them. I got 40 years of mediatation, yoga, puja, scriptural studies, thousands of hours of writing about Advaita, and I tremble to speak here, because there are some folks who have intellectual clarity here. I fucking know that I don't know, so I try very carefully to string the words such that I wouldn't be an embarrassment to myself -- I still fail, but at least I know I'm trying to write about that which I but distantly view. Every time a newbie comes here, you're here speaking pure bullshit and making no sense 95% of the time, and the newbie cannot be expected to sort out who here is handling the subtleties and who is a little kid scribbling on research papers with a crayon. Does ya get it that that newbie might be turned off from seeking just because of nutjobs like you posing here as if they knew what was what? You're building a most horrid karma for yourself -- you're guaranteeing that you too will be mislead in life by others equally unaware of their own lack of expertise yet willing to lead you into the crapper. I shudder to think what you're going to be suckered into next. And, for all those who would say, " Edg, where's your compassion for this conceptual cripple? " -- I say, it besmirches anyone who would indulge a fool when enlightenment is on the line. Geo, you're like a guy who just figured out how to masturbate and you've got online and joined a chat-room for children ages 5 - 10 and now you're telling them about SELF pleasuring. Look in the mirror. You don't have a PhD in shit one. All your tee shirts are still to be purchased at Walmart. My sin? I waste my time looking for a decent conversation where trolls, posers and the utterly lonely collect like fish washed up on shore after the lake is poisoned. FUCK! Edg ......I know, I know....you have been in it for 40 f...g years and ....and geo...geo...ONLY two f...g month!!! Dont ya see...you need more39 years and 10 month to get even.. OK edg.....I'll try to get the advaita encyclopaedia and start reading it, then I'll get back to you. LOL -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 11/8/2009 12:46:16 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 O cara é doidinho..coitado... Como é que vc fala portugues? -geo- - cerosoul Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:34 PM Re: No-communication P: What fun! Nothing more amusing thatrighteous indignation over beliefs.Overheard in a nut house:"How dare you, sir, proclaim yourself Jesus Christ?If I were still Emperor of France your head wouldroll, but alas, here I'm at St. Helen having to putup with your ravings." Ha ha! Saudades do Brasil, eh, Geo?Nisargadatta , "duveyoung" <edg wrote:>> Nisargadatta , "geo" <inandor@> wrote:> > >Geo, why the daily obsessive compulsive need to reply to every posting that > > >is there before/when you logged on? Are you the Advaita police?> > > > geo> I have been doing it for a month or two now and it has helped me to > > have a better understanding of things. I love to digg into this matter. > > Concerning "advaita"...I think the first time I heard about it was a couple > > of month ago when I first read Nis. and later on this list. It is not an > > obssession though...> > Do you feel I am overdoing it? Am I being agressive or something? I am > > interested to know what kind of image geo is projecting now.> > -geo-> > Geo,> > Man, just where in the fuck do you get off spouting like you do? > > Here you are puking words like a psychotic parrot. TWO FUCKING MONTHS?????? TWO FUCKING MONTHS and you're here posing as a "knower of reality who can juggle the Advaitan concepts and be unshakably consistent?" > > TWO FUCKING MONTHS and you're high-hatting and rib poking anyone and everyone with your inane blurbs that completely reveal your inability to grasp Advaita?> > If you're that smart, ya shudda taken up brain surgery instead of trying to impress the chuckleheads here who are not much clearer than you. If you were anywhere near to what you're posing to be, you sure wouldn't be posting here obsessively like a person scratching a rash.> > You are doing the equivalent of stealing a white coat and sneaking into a laboratory and just mixing chemicals at random while pretending to everyone in the lab that you're some sort of hotshot....and all you're doing is randomly mixing just in the hope that some sort of small reaction takes place so that you can brag that that is some insanely fucking great achievement and proof that you deserve to wear that white coat.> > TWO FUCKING MONTHS? TWO FUCKING MONTHS? > > Well, at last, it gels. You aren't crazy, you aren't stupid, but son-of-a-bitching-christ you're brazenly uneducated and grossly disrupting an advanced dialog about subtleties that historically a neophyte would mull over for decades in a cave before uttering a word about them.> > I got 40 years of mediatation, yoga, puja, scriptural studies, thousands of hours of writing about Advaita, and I tremble to speak here, because there are some folks who have intellectual clarity here. I fucking know that I don't know, so I try very carefully to string the words such that I wouldn't be an embarrassment to myself -- I still fail, but at least I know I'm trying to write about that which I but distantly view. > > Every time a newbie comes here, you're here speaking pure bullshit and making no sense 95% of the time, and the newbie cannot be expected to sort out who here is handling the subtleties and who is a little kid scribbling on research papers with a crayon. Does ya get it that that newbie might be turned off from seeking just because of nutjobs like you posing here as if they knew what was what?> > You're building a most horrid karma for yourself -- you're guaranteeing that you too will be mislead in life by others equally unaware of their own lack of expertise yet willing to lead you into the crapper. I shudder to think what you're going to be suckered into next.> > And, for all those who would say, "Edg, where's your compassion for this conceptual cripple?" -- I say, it besmirches anyone who would indulge a fool when enlightenment is on the line. > > Geo, you're like a guy who just figured out how to masturbate and you've got online and joined a chat-room for children ages 5 - 10 and now you're telling them about SELF pleasuring. > > Look in the mirror. You don't have a PhD in shit one. All your tee shirts are still to be purchased at Walmart. > > My sin? I waste my time looking for a decent conversation where trolls, posers and the utterly lonely collect like fish washed up on shore after the lake is poisoned.> > FUCK!> > Edg> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009Tested on: 11/8/2009 12:46:16avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:31 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > > is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > > all > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > > has > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > vastness > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > toombaru > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that > > is > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means > > I > > am not it. > > -geo- > > It is you. > > There is no one else to be this, other than you. > > - D - > > It is the same. But you said no - so you missed it. > The world is my empty patterns, there is no other. The same. > -geo- No, you got it wrong, Geo, and I got it right. There aren't two of us. See, I know that. How come you don't? LOL. Smiles and wishes for a great day - - Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:28 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > is > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > > of > > > > > all > > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but > > > > > that > > > > > has > > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > > vastness > > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The > > > > > human > > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner > > > observer.....that > > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness > > > that > > > is > > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it > > > means > > > I > > > am not it. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biiiiiingo! > > > > :-) > > > > toombaru > > > > That is the whole " point " is it not? > > The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum snap > > evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested > > no-thingness. > > -geo- > > No, it is being the suffering without identifying with it. > > Not escaping into some never-never land of not-manifested no-thingness. > > The suffering itself is the emptiness. > > -- D -- > > " it is being the suffering without identifying with it. " > In what manner that is different from " empty not-knowable non-manifested > no-thingness. " ? > Is any of those expressions identical with it? > -geo- Just be it. You'll never explain it or express it. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:39 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:25 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or > > has or sees. > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > The attempt to establish something that is the source of fear, *is* fear. > > >Profound fear for inexistent > > causes, great anguish for fear of loosing imagined stuff.....all this > > affects the body/mind... > > There aren't any final explanations for the fear you are - there is simply > being it. > > This is not for the squeamish. > > The fear of death is like a poison the alters the > > organic balance of the body/mind delicate balance. What about jealousy, > > panic...lots and lots of more reactions that shoot wrong enzims, > > inapropriate hormones, harmfull discharges all over the organism..I really > > dont get you here... > > Fear is much more than the biological observations you've learned about. > > It is the basis for the establishment of the science that produced these > observations about the biochemistry of fear. > > > PS - Not the inexistent self - of course - but the sense of " as if " . > > Sure - but learning about the " as if " nature of human nature, is itself an > " as if. " > > In other words, there is no refuge available from fear and suffering, and > the pain humans inflict on each other, by surmising an " as if " condition > involved. Learning that this is a dream, is itself learning in a dream. > > The attraction for the dream is to attempt to get away into a reality that > can be controlled somehow. > > -- Dan -- > > All I said is that living with the imagined center harms the organism: the > need for fforts from morning till night and night till morning. > You are talking of something else. > -geo- Not really. But you think so. Do you understand the fear you are? - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:09 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:28 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > is > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > > of > > > > > all > > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but > > > > > that > > > > > has > > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > idea > > > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > to > > > > > vastness > > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The > > > > > human > > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner > > > observer.....that > > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner > > > observer? > > > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness > > > that > > > is > > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it > > > means > > > I > > > am not it. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biiiiiingo! > > > > :-) > > > > toombaru > > > > That is the whole " point " is it not? > > The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum > > snap > > evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested > > no-thingness. > > -geo- > > No, it is being the suffering without identifying with it. > > Not escaping into some never-never land of not-manifested no-thingness. > > The suffering itself is the emptiness. > > -- D -- > > " it is being the suffering without identifying with it. " > In what manner that is different from " empty not-knowable non-manifested > no-thingness. " ? > Is any of those expressions identical with it? > -geo- Just be it. You'll never explain it or express it. - D - I look at suffering, consciousness, the world...and ask: what is " I " ? I am none of those. If I can look at them I am not them. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 11/8/2009 13:10:47 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:49 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that > > > > > > it > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > > is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the > > > > > other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a > > > > sourece > > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get > > > > you > > > > here... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Suffering hurts. > > > > Calling it a mirage is an attempt to escape. > > > > - D - > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the fearful > imagination of the ego. > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > toombaru > > Exactly. Dan has itchy fingers in ealry mornings > -geo- Nice side-step. You will go on the same way, Toom will go on the same way, but I won't be pointing it out to you. It is the way of the world. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:51 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > -tim- > > Nop. There are real sufferings and imagined ones. > -geo- Nope. There is an end to analysis. The need to make the distinction between real and imagined ends. One is the suffering. One stops evading and thinking one has things figured out. It is the end of having anything figured out. Go figure. -- D -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:08 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:31 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > continuity, > > > > > is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > of > > > > all > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but > > > > that > > > > has > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > vastness > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The > > > > human > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner > > observer.....that > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > toombaru > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness > > that > > is > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it > > means > > I > > am not it. > > -geo- > > It is you. > > There is no one else to be this, other than you. > > - D - > > It is the same. But you said no - so you missed it. > The world is my empty patterns, there is no other. The same. > -geo- No, you got it wrong, Geo, and I got it right. There aren't two of us. See, I know that. How come you don't? LOL. Smiles and wishes for a great day - - Dan Yes...it depends what you want from all this. Sometimes it is good to use words with care and attention -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 11/8/2009 13:13:49 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:12 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:39 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:25 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does > > or > > has or sees. > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give > > it > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a > > sourece > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > The attempt to establish something that is the source of fear, *is* fear. > > >Profound fear for inexistent > > causes, great anguish for fear of loosing imagined stuff.....all this > > affects the body/mind... > > There aren't any final explanations for the fear you are - there is simply > being it. > > This is not for the squeamish. > > The fear of death is like a poison the alters the > > organic balance of the body/mind delicate balance. What about jealousy, > > panic...lots and lots of more reactions that shoot wrong enzims, > > inapropriate hormones, harmfull discharges all over the organism..I > > really > > dont get you here... > > Fear is much more than the biological observations you've learned about. > > It is the basis for the establishment of the science that produced these > observations about the biochemistry of fear. > > > PS - Not the inexistent self - of course - but the sense of " as if " . > > Sure - but learning about the " as if " nature of human nature, is itself an > " as if. " > > In other words, there is no refuge available from fear and suffering, and > the pain humans inflict on each other, by surmising an " as if " condition > involved. Learning that this is a dream, is itself learning in a dream. > > The attraction for the dream is to attempt to get away into a reality that > can be controlled somehow. > > -- Dan -- > > All I said is that living with the imagined center harms the organism: the > need for fforts from morning till night and night till morning. > You are talking of something else. > -geo- Not really. But you think so. Do you understand the fear you are? - D - I am nothing objectivable. How could I? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 11/8/2009 13:16:53 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:44 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:14 AM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > > is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does > > > or > > > has or sees. > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give > > > it > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is due > > to > > ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > Marc > > > > It is not due to ego. The belief IS the " as if " ego itself. > > -geo- > > > > > > nobody knows.... > > except the ego. > > ... > > nobody there who need such " imaginary knowledge " (ego) for real...anyway... > > Marc > > It seems that sometimes imagination seems to issue from some separate > imaginer. > -geo- Okay, then. No separate imaginer to address. Just noticing the imagining. Awareness notices. Awareness is. No one to tell about this. No evasion of anything. Awareness of the fear one is. Awareness of the suffering and the attempt to evade. No " other " to address in this. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:19 AM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:44 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:14 AM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that > > > > > > does > > > > > > or > > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > > > > > > give > > > > > > it > > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is > > > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > It is not due to ego. The belief IS the " as if " ego itself. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nobody knows.... > > > > > > > > except the ego. > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > nobody there who need such " imaginary knowledge " (ego) for > > > > real...anyway... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > It seems that sometimes imagination seems to issue from some separate > > > > imaginer. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > imaginer " geo " , > > > > > > " geo " Is....all this nice imaginations, words and worlds in here, > > > inclusive > > > > > > there are indeed no seperations between " geo " and " geo " ... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > To the reader " geo " is an image. > > > To the writer it is a means to facilitate commucation. They are not the > > > same. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > reader and writer " geo " are imaginary > > > > also reader and writer " marc " are imaginary > > > > .... > > > > they get real, when there is a " reader or writer " " geo or marc " reading or > > writing.... > > > > ... > > > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > > Marc > > > > There is no need for fragmentation in order to write or do anything. IT is > > always doing IT. > > -geo- > > > > > this your " IT " is just " geo " who is allergic when it comes to fragmentations.....or differentiation between real and unreal. > > " geo " (or this your imaginary " IT " ), of course, is always the cause of fragmentations.....because thats the nature of imaginations & fictions like " geo " ... > > > Marc Yes. And this is not aimed at a " geo " but at any identifiable thought-stream, so to speak. The nature of any thought-stream with attempted self-continuity of themes, feelings, processes is to split - because that is the basis for any sense of continuity it has. Thought requires apparent division for a sense of continuity. -- D -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > That is the whole " point " is it not? > > The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum snap > > evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested > > no-thingness. > > > > In other words. Fully objectivating the manifested realizes the subjective > > non-manifested - and not the other way around. > -geo- > > I don't understand this one. > -toomba- > > I meant..dont try to find the non-manifested subjective because that is objectivating it. See the objective instead and the subjective is there. > In fact then all is subjective or objective - the same side. > -geo- > The self cannot do that and maintain its location. One can't have IT both ways. LOL toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 > ... > > they disappear when there is silence....again > > means, when real Self appears, again. > > > Marc > You have a real Self? :-0 toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > douglasmitch1963 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:00 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 AM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:44 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:14 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > > > of > > > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > to > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that > > > > > does > > > > > or > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > > > > > give > > > > > it > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is > > > > due > > > > to > > > > ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > It is not due to ego. The belief IS the " as if " ego itself. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nobody knows.... > > > > > > except the ego. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > nobody there who need such " imaginary knowledge " (ego) for > > > real...anyway... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > It seems that sometimes imagination seems to issue from some separate > > > imaginer. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > imaginer " geo " , > > > > " geo " Is....all this nice imaginations, words and worlds in here, > > inclusive > > > > there are indeed no seperations between " geo " and " geo " ... > > > > Marc > > > > To the reader " geo " is an image. > > To the writer it is a means to facilitate commucation. They are not the > > same. > > -geo- > > > >Geo, why the daily obsessive compulsive need to reply to every posting that > >is there before/when you logged on? Are you the Advaita police? > > geo> I have been doing it for a month or two now and it has helped me to > have a better understanding of things. I love to digg into this matter. > Concerning " advaita " ...I think the first time I heard about it was a couple > of month ago when I first read Nis. and later on this list. It is not an > obssession though... > Do you feel I am overdoing it? Am I being agressive or something? I am > interested to know what kind of image geo is projecting now. > -geo- > > > > > > Keep on following the scent. Go where ever it takes you Those who suggest you stop.....are the ones you're making nervous. LOL toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > douglasmitch1963 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:00 AM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:43 AM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:44 AM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dennis_travis33 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:14 AM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > > > > continuity, > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the > > > > > > > > idea > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that > > > > > > does > > > > > > or > > > > > > has or sees. > > > > > > > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > > > > > > give > > > > > > it > > > > > > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is > > > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > ego.....forever restless in nature.... > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > It is not due to ego. The belief IS the " as if " ego itself. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nobody knows.... > > > > > > > > except the ego. > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > nobody there who need such " imaginary knowledge " (ego) for > > > > real...anyway... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > It seems that sometimes imagination seems to issue from some separate > > > > imaginer. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > imaginer " geo " , > > > > > > " geo " Is....all this nice imaginations, words and worlds in here, > > > inclusive > > > > > > there are indeed no seperations between " geo " and " geo " ... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > To the reader " geo " is an image. > > > To the writer it is a means to facilitate commucation. They are not the > > > same. > > > -geo- > > > > > >Geo, why the daily obsessive compulsive need to reply to every posting that > > >is there before/when you logged on? Are you the Advaita police? > > > > geo> I have been doing it for a month or two now and it has helped me to > > have a better understanding of things. I love to digg into this matter. > > Concerning " advaita " ...I think the first time I heard about it was a couple > > of month ago when I first read Nis. and later on this list. It is not an > > obssession though... > > Do you feel I am overdoing it? Am I being agressive or something? I am > > interested to know what kind of image geo is projecting now. > > -geo- > > > > > you were told that you project the image of an " Advaita Police " .... > > > Marc > Somebody has to herd in the strays. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 > > I got 40 years of mediatation, yoga, puja, scriptural studies, thousands of hours of writing about Advaita, and I tremble to speak here, because there are some folks who have intellectual clarity here. t: If you tremble..........you shouldn't speak. This road is not for little children. I fucking know that I don't know, so I try very carefully to string the words such that I wouldn't be an embarrassment to myself - t: If you are still trying to save yourself from embarrassment....all that meditation has been wasted. - I still fail, but at least I know I'm trying to write about that which I but distantly view. t: Then stop worrying what others distantly view. > > Every time a newbie comes here, you're here speaking pure bullshit and making no sense 95% of the time, and the newbie cannot be expected to sort out who here is handling the subtleties and who is a little kid scribbling on research papers with a crayon. t: Fuck the newbies. If they cannot stand up on their own......let them lurk in the shadows. Only the bravest enter these doors. I never met a lurker that had anything I wanted. If they have nothing to say.....they have nothing to say. Does ya get it that that newbie might be turned off from seeking just because of nutjobs like you posing here as if they knew what was what? > > You're building a most horrid karma for yourself -- t: Oh my god.....you still believe in karma? ....perhaps another thirty years of meditation is in order. you're guaranteeing that you too will be mislead in life by others equally unaware of their own lack of expertise yet willing to lead you into the crapper. I shudder to think what you're going to be suckered into next. t: Do you really think that you.....or anyone......has the power to mislead others? You really have no idea what advaita is. > > And, for all those who would say, " Edg, where's your compassion for this conceptual cripple? " -- I say, it besmirches anyone who would indulge a fool when enlightenment is on the line. > > Geo, you're like a guy who just figured out how to masturbate and you've got online and joined a chat-room for children ages 5 - 10 and now you're telling them about SELF pleasuring. > > Look in the mirror. You don't have a PhD in shit one. All your tee shirts are still to be purchased at Walmart. > > My sin? I waste my time looking for a decent conversation where trolls, posers and the utterly lonely collect like fish washed up on shore after the lake is poisoned. > > FUCK! > > Edg > What you have so dimly glimpsed is your own smokey image......running from the light. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > > > > > > > One form of " suffering " is substantial. > > A broken leg hurts. > > One form is imaginary. > > Losing one's lover.......hurts. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > That distinction is itself imaginary and insubstantial. > > - D - > What image isn't? We're just shootin shadows here. ........sniffin and markin the trees......out on the edge of the known........ :-) toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:12 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:41 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no > > > > > continuity, > > > > > is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful > > > > of > > > > all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that > > > does > > > or has or sees. > > > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > > > give > > > it power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there something other than " it " speaking through you? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > That's a silly question that can't be answered. > > Who would care about such a trivial concept as that? > > Trying to figure out who is really speaking? > > That is obviously nonsense, as any attempt to define what is speaking > requires someone to do that defining. > > Getting involved in such games is a mental preoccupation to avoid being > what > one actually is. > > The evasion is very close to home. > > It is not out there with someone else. > > - Dan - > > You are not too well today dan. Who else could be doing enything? > -geo- You are not doing too well today. There is no one else. -- D -- " That's a silly question that can't be answered. Who would care about such a trivial concept as that? Trying to figure out who is really speaking? " Where is the trivial concept? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 11/8/2009 13:16:53 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:15 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:51 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > -tim- > > Nop. There are real sufferings and imagined ones. > -geo- Nope. There is an end to analysis. The need to make the distinction between real and imagined ends. One is the suffering. One stops evading and thinking one has things figured out. It is the end of having anything figured out. Go figure. -- D -- How can I be the suffering that I am looking at? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 11/8/2009 14:02:10 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
