Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > > > here... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Namaste, > > > > The reason we see the mirage is we are Brahman, and because we are Brahman it never happened...> > > > > > When you say we are anything...even Brahman...we become objectified again. > > Even saying that you don't know what we are......is saying that we are something........which is not the case. toombaru The suffering is not a thing. So, you can't escape the suffering by attempting to establish that one is nothing. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > has > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > toombaru > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > Where do those opinions reside? > > toombaru > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that is > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means I > am not it. > -geo- It is you. There is no one else to be this, other than you. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tim G. > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > one day will die. > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > - Dan - > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > here... > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > toombaru Suffering hurts. Calling it a mirage is an attempt to escape. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that has > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > toombaru > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > toombaru That's right. Nonduality is just another reservoir of opinions, which have the advantage of one being able to pretend are not being held by anyone. A most excellent dodge! No wonder it is spreading so fast as the belief system of choice for nonbelievers! -- Dan -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > > here... > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Suffering hurts. > > Calling it a mirage is an attempt to escape. > > - D - Thanks... that is indeed the case. One is this hurt, without moving away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:25 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > it > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > toombaru > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or > has or sees. > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it > power it never has had, as if to exist. > > -- Dan -- > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... The attempt to establish something that is the source of fear, *is* fear. >Profound fear for inexistent > causes, great anguish for fear of loosing imagined stuff.....all this > affects the body/mind... There aren't any final explanations for the fear you are - there is simply being it. This is not for the squeamish. The fear of death is like a poison the alters the > organic balance of the body/mind delicate balance. What about jealousy, > panic...lots and lots of more reactions that shoot wrong enzims, > inapropriate hormones, harmfull discharges all over the organism..I really > dont get you here... Fear is much more than the biological observations you've learned about. It is the basis for the establishment of the science that produced these observations about the biochemistry of fear. > PS - Not the inexistent self - of course - but the sense of " as if " . Sure - but learning about the " as if " nature of human nature, is itself an " as if. " In other words, there is no refuge available from fear and suffering, and the pain humans inflict on each other, by surmising an " as if " condition involved. Learning that this is a dream, is itself learning in a dream. The attraction for the dream is to attempt to get away into a reality that can be controlled somehow. -- Dan -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or has or sees. > > > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had, as if to exist. > > > > -- Dan -- > > > > > > > Is there something other than " it " speaking through you? > > > > toombaru That's a silly question that can't be answered. Who would care about such a trivial concept as that? Trying to figure out who is really speaking? That is obviously nonsense, as any attempt to define what is speaking requires someone to do that defining. Getting involved in such games is a mental preoccupation to avoid being what one actually is. The evasion is very close to home. It is not out there with someone else. - Dan - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > There aren't any final explanations for the fear you are - there is > > simply being it. > > This is not for the squeamish. This is not for anyone. Nobody chooses this. It certainly wasn't chosen 'here'. Many sages have uttered the words, " you don't want this " . Just a fact, stated and re-stated. Of course, such a statement attracts 'seekers'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > > here... > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Suffering hurts. > > Calling it a mirage is an attempt to escape. > > - D - > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the fearful imagination of the ego. They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > fearful imagination of the ego. > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > There aren't any final explanations for the fear you are - there is > > simply being it. > > > > > > This is not for the squeamish. > > > > This is not for anyone. > > > > Nobody chooses this. > > > > It certainly wasn't chosen 'here'. > > > > Many sages have uttered the words, " you don't want this " . > > > > Just a fact, stated and re-stated. > > > > Of course, such a statement attracts 'seekers'. > > LOL. > > It sure creates a hullabaloo. > > I'm ready for a new TV theme show: " Nondual Hullabaloo. " > > Celebrating the nondual meme. > > Guaranteed to end suffering. > > All you have to do is learn to say, " there is no seeker, the search is ended, " and learn how to keep a smile on your face when anyone is looking. > > Instant enlightenment, just mix with water. > > No fuss, no muss. > > Funny ... > > - Dan - There ya go... Starring Jerry Springer, and Jerry Katz ;-). With " heron moon " and " anabebe " duking it out, soaking wet. Weeknights at 5... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > One form of " suffering " is substantial. A broken leg hurts. One form is imaginary. Losing one's lover.......hurts. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > > > One form of " suffering " is substantial. > A broken leg hurts. > One form is imaginary. > Losing one's lover.......hurts. > > > > toombaru This is very, very important, isn't it? To keep on conceptually separating things. Very, very important to maintain this momentum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > > > > > > > One form of " suffering " is substantial. > > A broken leg hurts. > > One form is imaginary. > > Losing one's lover.......hurts. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > This is very, very important, isn't it? > > To keep on conceptually separating things. > > Very, very important to maintain this momentum. > No more important than your compulsion to push your imaginary things together. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > > > > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > One form of " suffering " is substantial. > > > A broken leg hurts. > > > One form is imaginary. > > > Losing one's lover.......hurts. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > This is very, very important, isn't it? > > > > To keep on conceptually separating things. > > > > Very, very important to maintain this momentum. > > > > > > > No more important than your compulsion to push your imaginary > things together. > > > > > toombaru Of course, *I*, Toomie, am above all the religious nonsense. I'm better than that. *I'm* hardcore nondual. *I* don't believe in any of that. *I* don't stoop to what folks like Tim, and Dan, and everyone stoop to. I may graciously include them in my good graces, from time to time, but *I* know better. *They* don't. *I* am above the I. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > There is physical suffering and there is suffering induced by the > > > > > > fearful imagination of the ego. > > > > > > > > > > > > They have been given the same name........but they are not the same. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, let's split suffering in two, now. > > > > > > > > > > The more bits and pieces we can get, the better. > > > > > > > > > > The more thought can divide, the more 'in control' it feels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One form of " suffering " is substantial. > > > > A broken leg hurts. > > > > One form is imaginary. > > > > Losing one's lover.......hurts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > This is very, very important, isn't it? > > > > > > To keep on conceptually separating things. > > > > > > Very, very important to maintain this momentum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No more important than your compulsion to push your imaginary > > things together. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Of course, *I*, Toomie, am above all the religious nonsense. > > I'm better than that. *I'm* hardcore nondual. > > *I* don't believe in any of that. > > *I* don't stoop to what folks like Tim, and Dan, and everyone stoop to. > > I may graciously include them in my good graces, from time to time, but *I* know better. *They* don't. > > *I* am above the I. > " I am above the I " is an interesting statement indeed. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > " I am above the I " is an interesting statement indeed. > > > toombaru Are there any statements that aren't interesting? There is an imagined 'background process', that is actually absolutely synchronous with what is perceived. The notion that there is something 'happening in the background' is delusion, can be called " the subconscious mind " (or 'me'). There is what is being avoided, that is pushed out of awareness and is thus " subconscious " . Or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > toombaru > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or has or sees. > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had, as if to exist. > > -- Dan -- > such " show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had.... " is due to ego.....forever restless in nature.... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > " I am above the I " is an interesting statement indeed. > > > > > > toombaru > > Are there any statements that aren't interesting? > > There is an imagined 'background process', that is actually absolutely synchronous with what is perceived. > > The notion that there is something 'happening in the background' is delusion, can be called " the subconscious mind " (or 'me'). > > There is what is being avoided, that is pushed out of awareness and is thus " subconscious " . > > Or not. > The attempt by the conceptual mind to figure itself out is doomed to failure for one very good reason. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > > here... > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Namaste, > > The reason we see the mirage is we are Brahman, and because we are Brahman it never happened... ....and Brahman isn't just a mirage...yes Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > > > here... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > Namaste, > > > > The reason we see the mirage is we are Brahman, and because we are Brahman it never happened...> > > ...and Brahman isn't just a mirage...yes > > > Marc > > > I think it is a type of cattle. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > > > > here... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > The reason we see the mirage is we are Brahman, and because we are Brahman it never happened...> > > > > > ...and Brahman isn't just a mirage...yes > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > I think it is a type of cattle. > > > > > toombaru > lol it is a type of...everything " you " want....means, everything you could ever imagine, intime....here and now Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > " I am above the I " is an interesting statement indeed. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Are there any statements that aren't interesting? > > > > There is an imagined 'background process', that is actually absolutely synchronous with what is perceived. > > > > The notion that there is something 'happening in the background' is delusion, can be called " the subconscious mind " (or 'me'). > > > > There is what is being avoided, that is pushed out of awareness and is thus " subconscious " . > > > > Or not. > The attempt by the conceptual mind to figure itself out is doomed > to failure for one very good reason. That's right. 'What is the case' is final, complete. There are no arguments either for, or against it. If any argument is possible, it isn't the case. " Instead of seeking what you don't have, find out what is is you have never lost " -- Nisargadatta " Go back the way you came " -- Ramana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > There is a desperate effort to escape suffering by splitting apart from it. > > At the same time, the effort is an identification with the suffering. > > This is why the conceptual realm has its attraction, as an attempt to escape and gain control. > > This issue will never be resolved by conceptual insight. > > Never. > > One is the suffering that it is wanted so badly to be able to escape. > > One is the suffering, and one simultaneously does not identify with it. > > The effort is over. > > " It is ended, " said Jesus. > > The history of the human race is this effort, in various forms. > > It is ended. Shhhhhhhhhhhh!!! You're not supposed to tell about " it " ! ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:31 AM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > has > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > toombaru > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > Where do those opinions reside? > > toombaru > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that > is > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means > I > am not it. > -geo- It is you. There is no one else to be this, other than you. - D - It is the same. But you said no - so you missed it. The world is my empty patterns, there is no other. The same. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 11/8/2009 06:52:23 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
