Guest guest Report post Posted August 10, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > We differ on this point. > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > Yes. > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > Yes. > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all > life forms on earth. > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that has > nothing to do with a self. > > > In the other > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > one day will die. > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to vastness > out of which it emerged. > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > toombaru > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 11:59 AM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Consciousness is memory, geo. > > > > Firing memory neuron are causing that effect which is callesd > > consciousness. When those neurons are not firing then they are just > > memory. > > > > Werner > > > > Yes consciousness is memory, but not all memory functions make up > > consciousness. > > Yes surely, Geo, not all memory is making consciousness. > > > And...I have asked you before but you did not answer. > > Sorry, I must have missed that question. I can't remember you have aksed it. > > > You like K. When krishnamurti talks of that which is beyond > > consciousness....is he insane? > > Below follows a small excerpt where K mentioned 'beyond consciousness'. Just > decide for yourself if that remark made him insane > > Werner > ....... > Krishnamurti: We have said intelligence is beyond consciousness and when the > mind is stripped of the psychological elements, in the very stripping there > is the uncovering of this intelligence. Or intelligence comes into being in > the very stripping. There is the biological survival and intelligence. That > is all. > Intelligence has no heritage. Consciousness has heritage. We are caught in > the becoming within the field of consciousness. Within the fie]d of > consciousness we are trying to become. Strip all that. Empty all that. Let > the mind empty itself of all that. In the very emptying comes intelligence. > ........ > geo> " Intelligence is beyond consciousness " . Werner says there is nothing > beyond consciousness. D: It's a good point. Nis. also said awareness is beyond consciousness. So, are these pointers of use? Only if/as there is first-hand understanding. What the words point to, is not a verbal reality. Awareness that isn't a property of consciousness, intelligence that isn't a property of consciousness, is not the outcome of verbalizable conceptualization (verbal conceptualization being a property of consciousness, so to speak). Can one be aware of consciousness without identifying " into " consciousness, including not identifying into processes of verbalizable thought? This awareness itself is the so-called " stripping away " of consciousness. The term " stripping away " doesn't seem really on-target to me. It is more of a dropping away. I don't like the term " let " as in " let the mind empty. " Because letting, allowing, implies a power of decision. There is no volition involved, no decider, no allower. It is simply a matter of awareness. One could use a chemical reaction as a metaphor. When the chemicals involved and temperature are in the right proportion, when there is readiness, crystalization occurs. The crystals form not because they were allowed to form, but simply because it was time. What makes it time for crystalization of awareness through the human being? I would submit that a person understands what doesn't work, is not looking or expecting for something to work that can't work. And, there is intelligent awareness, as K. says, which to me indicates awareness that is not being resisted by the human being through self-duplicitous strategies that are largely unconscious, investment in images and emotional reactions to images. -- D -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > one day will die. > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > one day will die. It doesn't do anything. - Dan - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > Yes. > And it is what is speaking now. > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all life forms on earth. > In the other > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > one day will die. > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to vastness out of which it emerged. > > toombaru It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or has or sees. You try to debunk something that isn't there. You address many, many comments to something that is not. In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had, as if to exist. -- Dan -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > We differ on this point. > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > Yes. > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > Yes. > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all > life forms on earth. > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that has > nothing to do with a self. > > > In the other > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > it > > one day will die. > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > vastness > out of which it emerged. > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > toombaru > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? toombaru Please rephrase the question. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 10/8/2009 18:14:05 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > one day will die. > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > one day will die. It doesn't do anything. - Dan - The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you here... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 10/8/2009 21:00:21 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to vastness out of which it emerged. > > > > toombaru > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or has or sees. > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had, as if to exist. > > -- Dan -- > Is there something other than " it " speaking through you? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 8:25 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > Yes. > And it is what is speaking now. > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all > life forms on earth. > In the other > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > it > > one day will die. > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > vastness out of which it emerged. > > toombaru It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or has or sees. You try to debunk something that isn't there. You address many, many comments to something that is not. In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and give it power it never has had, as if to exist. -- Dan -- The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness....Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... The fear of death is like a poison the alters the organic balance of the body/mind delicate balance. What about jealousy, panic...lots and lots of more reactions that shoot wrong enzims, inapropriate hormones, harmfull discharges all over the organism..I really dont get you here... PS - Not the inexistent self - of course - but the sense of " as if " . -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 10/8/2009 21:00:21 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > Yes. > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of all > > life forms on earth. > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that has > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > In the other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > it > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > vastness > > out of which it emerged. > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > toombaru > > Please rephrase the question. > -geo- > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? Where do those opinions reside? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Tim G. > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > one day will die. > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > one day will die. > > It doesn't do anything. > > - Dan - > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > here... > -geo- > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > Yes. > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > all > > life forms on earth. > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > has > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > In the other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > it > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > vastness > > out of which it emerged. > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > toombaru > > Please rephrase the question. > -geo- > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? Where do those opinions reside? toombaru Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that is just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means I am not it. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 10/8/2009 21:18:47 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tim G. > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > one day will die. > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > - Dan - > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > here... > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > toombaru > Namaste, The reason we see the mirage is we are Brahman, and because we are Brahman it never happened...Tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > has > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > toombaru > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > Where do those opinions reside? > > toombaru > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that is > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means I > am not it. > -geo- > > > > Biiiiiingo! :-) toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > > here... > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Namaste, > > The reason we see the mirage is we are Brahman, and because we are Brahman it never happened...> When you say we are anything...even Brahman...we become objectified again. Even saying that you don't know what we are......is saying that we are something........which is not the case. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > has > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > toombaru > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > Where do those opinions reside? > > toombaru > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that > is > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means > I > am not it. > -geo- > > > > Biiiiiingo! :-) toombaru That is the whole " point " is it not? The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum snap evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested no-thingness. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 10/8/2009 21:28:09 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - Tony OClery Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 9:25 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tim G. > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the > > > other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > it > > > one day will die. > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > - Dan - > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a > > sourece > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get > > you > > here... > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > toombaru > Namaste, The reason we see the mirage is we are Brahman, and because we are Brahman it never happened... What is it that you are naming mirage here? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 10/8/2009 21:33:29 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 9:35 PM Re: Re: No-communication - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > has > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > toombaru > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > Where do those opinions reside? > > toombaru > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that > is > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means > I > am not it. > -geo- > > > > Biiiiiingo! :-) toombaru That is the whole " point " is it not? The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum snap evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested no-thingness. In other words. Fully objectivating the manifested realizes the subjective non-manifested - and not the other way around. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 10/8/2009 21:28:09 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 10/8/2009 21:38:49 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:20 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Tim G. > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the > > > other > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > it > > > one day will die. > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > - Dan - > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > here... > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > toombaru > > The self mirage is true - as a mirage. In itself it does not exist but > causes effects in the human organism. > -geo- > > > From its accumulated mnemonic debris it creates and sustains a celluloid map....a conceptual overlay.......that becomes a pseudo (dream) world that is mistaken of reality. It is a place where everything has a name and becomes conceptually separated from its psychological center. It arises concurrently within the conceptual arena and in the case of the so called searcher......it tries to escape its own dream. Funny huh..............if it weren't so damn sad. And that is the only reason that those who apprehend the essence of the " problem " stick around and try to share their insight. Although.......I have to tell you..... it all gets a bit wearisome when the cry baby searchers close their eyes and cling tightly to their blankets.....their Gods and their gurus. toombaru toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 9:41 PM Re: Re: No-communication - geo Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 9:35 PM Re: Re: No-communication - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM Re: No-communication Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > Yes. > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > all > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > has > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > vastness > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > toombaru > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > Where do those opinions reside? > > toombaru > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that > is > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means > I > am not it. > -geo- > > > > Biiiiiingo! :-) toombaru That is the whole " point " is it not? The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum snap evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested no-thingness. In other words. Fully objectivating the manifested realizes the subjective non-manifested - and not the other way around. And no amount of studying and reading and practicing advaita will do it. Way much to simple for that. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > > is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > > all > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > > has > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > vastness > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > toombaru > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that > > is > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means > > I > > am not it. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Biiiiiingo! > > :-) > > toombaru > > That is the whole " point " is it not? > The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum snap > evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested > no-thingness. > -geo- > > > > > > .......and the searcher looks at his teacher........says: " I'm done " ........and doesn't look back. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tony OClery > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:25 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the > > > > other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a > > > sourece > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get > > > you > > > here... > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Namaste, > > The reason we see the mirage is we are Brahman, and because we are Brahman > it never happened...> > What is it that you are naming mirage here? > -geo- > > > > An optical phenomenon, esp. in the desert or at sea, by which the image of some object appears displaced above, below, or to one side of its true position as a result of spatial variations of the index of refraction of air. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:41 PM > Re: Re: No-communication > > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:35 PM > Re: Re: No-communication > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM > Re: No-communication > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > > is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > > all > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > > has > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > vastness > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > toombaru > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that > > is > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means > > I > > am not it. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Biiiiiingo! > > :-) > > toombaru > > That is the whole " point " is it not? > The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum snap > evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested > no-thingness. > > In other words. Fully objectivating the manifested realizes the subjective > non-manifested - and not the other way around. I don't understand this one. > > And no amount of studying and reading and practicing advaita will do it. Way > much to simple for that. > -geo- > .........but this one I do. :-) toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > It doesn't do anything, have anything, see anything. > > You are talking about a pattern of neural events, not a thing that does or has or sees. > > You try to debunk something that isn't there. > > You address many, many comments to something that is not. > > In that ongoing attempt to debunk it, you show a belief in it, and > give it power it never has had, as if to exist. > > -- Dan -- The 'pattern of neural events' that shows this interest, is the past, is 'interested in' the past, in why humans are so successful (with an implicit assumption that 'overrunning the earth' means 'success'), is interested in debunking 'now', so it can remain as a past-based pattern, is interested in repeating and repeating and repeating, so as to phonily assert continuity that isn't there, etcetera. No big surprise. 'The past' isn't listening, is interested only in repetition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:20 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 8:22 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Tim G. > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 3:01 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is a survival program and abhors the idea that it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, is > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. In the > > > > other > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea that > > > > it > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > It doesn't do anything. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > The sense of self? why do you say that? Of course it does. It is a sourece > > > of fear, anxiety, anger, illusion. illness.... > > > Profound fear for inexistent causes, great anguish for fear of loosing > > > imagined stuff.....all this affects the body/mind... I really dont get you > > > here... > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does a mirage exist?......yes and no. > > > > toombaru > > > > The self mirage is true - as a mirage. In itself it does not exist but > > causes effects in the human organism. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > From its accumulated mnemonic debris it creates and sustains a celluloid map....a conceptual overlay.......that becomes a pseudo (dream) world that is mistaken of reality. > > It is a place where everything has a name and becomes conceptually separated from its psychological center. > > It arises concurrently within the conceptual arena and in the case of the so called searcher......it tries to escape its own dream. > > Funny huh..............if it weren't so damn sad. > > And that is the only reason that those who apprehend the essence of the " problem " stick around and try to share their insight. > > Although.......I have to tell you..... it all gets a bit wearisome when the cry baby searchers close their eyes and cling tightly to their blankets.....their Gods and their gurus. > > > > > toombaru There is a desperate effort to escape suffering by splitting apart from it. At the same time, the effort is an identification with the suffering. This is why the conceptual realm has its attraction, as an attempt to escape and gain control. This issue will never be resolved by conceptual insight. Never. One is the suffering that it is wanted so badly to be able to escape. One is the suffering, and one simultaneously does not identify with it. The effort is over. " It is ended, " said Jesus. The history of the human race is this effort, in various forms. It is ended. Resolution of the dilemma is the end of human history and end of identification as a human form. Yet resolution involves no attempt to escape from the human form or human suffering and no loss of memory. -- D -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 11, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM > Re: No-communication > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, August 10, 2009 9:17 PM > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 6:12 PM > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, August 10, 2009 5:32 PM > > > > Re: No-communication > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of self is not there for the survival of the body. > > > > > > > > We differ on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is there for the survival of the continuity of thought. > > > > > > > > The I amness arises concurrently with conceptual thought. > > > > They are the same phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The continuity of a ghost-entity, which in truth has no continuity, > > > > > is > > > > > merely an ever-changing series of thoughts. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > And it is what is speaking now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is like a repeating habit, not an entity. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> Yes. The sense of self in fact is harmfull for the body. > > > > > > > > That doesn't explain the fact that humans have the most successful of > > > > all > > > > life forms on earth. > > > > > > > > geo> What explains is the program that takes care of the body but that > > > > has > > > > nothing to do with a self. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the other > > > > > hand, indeed, it is a survival program and indeed abhors the idea > > > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > one day will die. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is programmed to survive and reproduce. > > > > It is not part of its program to understand its own relationship to > > > > vastness > > > > out of which it emerged. > > > > > > > > geo> The body is progaramed like that much alike any animal. The human > > > > organism does not need an imagined inner observer. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And who is it that has decided that? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Please rephrase the question. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it something other that the sense of self...the inner observer.....that > > has concluded that the physical organism doesn't need an inner observer? > > > > Where do those opinions reside? > > > > toombaru > > > > Ahhhh...toomba...Not opinions, it is obvious. > > There is the seeing of this organism/consciosuness and the awareness that > > is > > just an empty pattern and the possiblity of being able to look at it means > > I > > am not it. > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Biiiiiingo! > > :-) > > toombaru > > That is the whole " point " is it not? > The seeing of the manifested - as a whole - suddenly as some quantum snap > evaporates any observer into the empty not-knowable non-manifested > no-thingness. > -geo- No, it is being the suffering without identifying with it. Not escaping into some never-never land of not-manifested no-thingness. The suffering itself is the emptiness. -- D -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
