Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 8:18 AM > Re: Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, all > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > -tim- > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > own being. > So the questioning is: > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake there is a > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are seen for > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is identified > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > conceptual framework. > -geo- The awakeness you are describing goes into one state, then another state. It becomes identified, then loses its identification. So, what then would you call awakeness that doesn't go into one state then into another state? What would you call awakeness that has never identified, because it can't identify, because there is no division of it, no other for it to identify with? What would you call an awakeness that " you " can't have - because it can't be held by any body-mind, can't be more of it in one place and less of it in another place? This awakeness is beyond even the dissolution of " you. " This " you " based on memories, states of being, description, ideas - this " you " has never existed as a being, as an other, to or for or of this awakeness. So, what will you call it? What name will you give it? " You " are not in it, nor outside of it, so how can you name it? It's not a state you will ever enter, nor will it ever enter you. The same is true for Dan, for Bob, for Tim, for any nameable being or consciousness, any being that can be identified by states it has been in or is in, or experiences it has had, or its history or location. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake there is > > a > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are seen > > for > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is identified > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > conceptual framework. > > -geo- > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, because > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It just > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. Only, > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > -tim- > > Ah, you are talking about night sleeps and night dreams? Like dreaming and > being aware that one is dreaming? > Am talking about another kind of dreaming. The dream of maya. > -geo- everything we say here is maya. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:14 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:04 PM > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:10 PM > > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " > > > > > > > > <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self?? > > > > > > > > > > No. This consciousness is a reflection of the ground. > > > > > > > > > > Reflection > > > > > > > > > > is not the > > > > > > > > > > thing learned at school at all, no. > > > > > > > > > > Reflection is manifestation. So the ground is being > > > > > > > > > > manifested > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > Without the reflection the ground is non-manifested. > > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the way you said this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything reflects the " ground " which is no-thing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is why awareness and its object are not-two > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is why the human consciousness includes everything > > > > > > > > > reflected > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the human experience, including the formation of self > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you like anything...it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the way you said this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but then, you knew i'd say that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know you know what the reply to that must be. > > > > > > > > > > > > your wrong.....so i am right. > > > > > > > > > > > > that's the way it always goes. > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > everyone wants to be right. > > > > > > > > > > no one wants to lose. > > > > > > > > > > everyone wants someone else to be the one who loses. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Then the lights are off pall... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is also the > > > > dissolution of any concern about whether lights are on or off. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no > > > > concern with > > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, > > > right? > > > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > there are no winners nor losers. > > > > but.. > > > > i could be wrong. > > > > i was once. > > > > about sixty years a go. > > > > i had a " junior moment " . > > > > i had thought i was wrong about something. > > > > .b b.b. > > > I'm a loser. > > I'm not what I appear to be. > > (Nor am I something else.) > > - d - the beatles were so cool. 8-) ..b b.b. OK...but it was enough. Remember when you actualy liked Paul? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 14:33:34 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Castor Oil: damn this shit tastes bad! > > Poor Archer: fuck! i shot an arrow into my faceless head! > > .b b.b. Damn, I hate when that happens. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " new7892001 " <JB789@> wrote: > > > > > > , so, how do i get enlightened? > > > and how long it takes? > > > * > > > anybody here enlightened? > > > can you make me enlightened? > > > * > > > thank you. > > > > > > you are enlightened....without knowing about, yes > > > > therefore " me know nothing " , right > > > > .... > > > > it takes no time > > > > as long there is an imaginary " you " > > > > there is endless time and space which seperate " you " to real being > > > > .... > > > > there is a whole world which seperate " you " from enlightenment.... > > > > such world is " you " > > > > .... > > > > no enlightened ones within this your imaginary bubble.... > > > > therefore " me knowing nothing " , yes > > > > .... > > > > wake up > > > > then there is no world and no " you " > > > > and also no imaginary enlightenment > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: would say that there are few ones in here who are more enlightened than few others in here..... > > the question you should ask in here.... > > " who is the most enlightened in here? " .....and also " why does it hurt soo much to be enlightened? " .... > > > > lol > > > oooch! > > this pains me...sooo much. > > whenever i'm infrequently around. > > i prefer to surround the around. > > then no preferences nor references. > > .b b.b. i prefer surround sound. with all holes plugged. tommy, can you hear me? - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its there you are it. > > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see you as a personality, except if both are awake. > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > if one distinction is made.. > > even ONE.. > > then like cascading debris.. > > all distinctions arise. > > a world is " born " . > > it will die. > > it is not real. > > butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. > > .b b.b. kill it before it multiplies. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:29 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its there > you are it. > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see you > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > Now I must ask you: > > One man is awake and says so. > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > Is there not a difference? The question here is, " who are you, who is observing two men and judging them? " Are you awake? If you are awake, then you understand who the one awake is. You don't identify this one with any particular human body. Then, no human body verbalizing, " I am awake, " will deceive you. If a human body states, " I am awake, " and is trying to claim some special knowing or special state for that body-mind, you will not be deceived. If a human body states, " I am awake, " and no attempt is being made for the body-mind to claim it, you won't be deceived. - D - I am not deceived anymore...I am on my way to recovery. My dispointment is slowly loosing its grip and finaly I am able to start breathing again. You may say you are always awake as much as you like and all I have to do is count till ten, breathe slowly....and I know I deeply know nothing... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 14:34:35 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > In a way yes. That is one of the things I like in nagualism. The ability to > > > visit other worlds - in itself is just an enlargement of consciousness, > > > quite useless. But there is another side to it. One is able to understand > > > that " worlds " are all inclusive, with their history, their beings, their > > > anything....and then suddenly pufff...all is gone and another world is > > > born - also all inclusively. > > > -geo- > > > > Yup, that's true... in a way, the world is a state of mind. There isn't any single, continuous world, aside from what we construct mentally. > > > there is nothing " we " create. > > .b b.b. " we " are constructed, along with " other " constructions. ouch. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:31 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no concern > > > with > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > -geo- > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, > > right? > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > - D - > > > > NO! I AM THE LOSER!! > > -geo- > > Okay, you lose. > > Now, I want a chance to lose. > > We've talked about the dissolution of somebodies. > > Let's talk about the dissolution of antibodies. > > Antibodies dissolve when there isn't any body to be anti. > > That was a stupid thing to say. > > Anything you say is right. > > I lose! > > - d - > > No I will lose again: > > One man is awake. > Another man is sleeping dreaming that is awake. > or... > Sometimes I am awake > Other times I dream I am awake. > -geo- Being awake isn't a sometime thing. It isn't located in a body-mind, nor is the body-mind something that exists outside of " being awake. " - D - Yes. That is awake. Now what is sleep?...for after all " awake " - as you referr to it above - must be kind of relative to its opposite " sleep " -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 14:35:36 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > all > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > -tim- > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > own being. > So the questioning is: > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > -geo- " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. It is not doing anything. It is awake. - D - And what is sleep? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 14:37:38 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:40 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:32 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:25 AM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:44 AM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake > > > > > there > > > > > is a > > > > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess > > > > > are > > > > > seen > > > > > for > > > > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > > > > identified > > > > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through > > > > > a > > > > > conceptual framework. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, > > > > because > > > > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It > > > > just > > > > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. > > > > Only, > > > > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > > > > > > " we " ? > > > > > > but " you " just said.. > > > > > > never mind. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > bbb, here there was a turn in teh subject. He is talking about lucid > > > dreaming. > > > -geo- > > > > lucid for whom? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Its when you are sleeping in normal night sleep-kind, dreaming, and > > sudenly > > there is an wareness that you are in your bed sleeping and having that > > dream. > > -geo > > who's dreaming the dream.. > > of the dreamer awakening.. > > to the dream so dreamed? > > this lucidity you speak of seems murky to me. > > .b b.b. > > Tell the american or canadian dumb who invented the name - that is the way > it is called. I have no idea why is that....but in fact there is a taste > of > lucidity in these ocasions. > bbb, do you dream in your sleep? I mean normal human sleep....not the > enlightened dumbass one. > -geo- my goodness.. are you hurt? good. look into it.. if you can. LOL! ..b b.b. Do you dream? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 14:45:46 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:42 AM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > > > all > > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > > > own being. > > > > our very OWN???? > > > > > So the questioning is: > > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > > -geo- > > > > you're asking the wrong person. > > > > he isn't there. > > > > and truthfully..there is no question. > > > > it's just thought that there is. > > > > and some spend full lifetimes looking for that answer. > > > > i'd rather fish or cut bait... > > > > and never " know " who's " doing " that. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Wrong person? Which person? To awake is the realization of no person. > > -geo- > > > > > > who or what is awakening? > > awakening itself right? > > wrong! > > awake never sleeps nor dreams nor gives a shit. > > .b b.b. > > .b b.b. except to say " bullshit " once in a while. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:41 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 8:18 AM > Re: Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > all > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > -tim- > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > own being. > So the questioning is: > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake there is > a > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are seen > for > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is identified > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > conceptual framework. > -geo- The awakeness you are describing goes into one state, then another state. It becomes identified, then loses its identification. So, what then would you call awakeness that doesn't go into one state then into another state? What would you call awakeness that has never identified, because it can't identify, because there is no division of it, no other for it to identify with? What would you call an awakeness that " you " can't have - because it can't be held by any body-mind, can't be more of it in one place and less of it in another place? This awakeness is beyond even the dissolution of " you. " This " you " based on memories, states of being, description, ideas - this " you " has never existed as a being, as an other, to or for or of this awakeness. So, what will you call it? What name will you give it? " You " are not in it, nor outside of it, so how can you name it? It's not a state you will ever enter, nor will it ever enter you. The same is true for Dan, for Bob, for Tim, for any nameable being or consciousness, any being that can be identified by states it has been in or is in, or experiences it has had, or its history or location. - D - Awake is good enough...as any other name....if...... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 14:47:47 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:42 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake there > > is > > a > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are seen > > for > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > identified > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > conceptual framework. > > -geo- > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, because > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It just > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. Only, > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > -tim- > > Ah, you are talking about night sleeps and night dreams? Like dreaming and > being aware that one is dreaming? > Am talking about another kind of dreaming. The dream of maya. > -geo- everything we say here is maya. -dan- No...idiot...dumbass. I can write lots of things here....and geomanure is absent...only is is-ing. No maya. Maya is the play of the imagined center and its periphery...jackass. The world as the organism interprets it as the human world...is not nescessarily maya. Maya died with geo-imbecil, with dan-center. Time by the watch is not maya. Now..there you go............................................................. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 14:48:48 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:02 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > In a way yes. That is one of the things I like in nagualism. The > > > ability to > > > visit other worlds - in itself is just an enlargement of > > > consciousness, > > > quite useless. But there is another side to it. One is able to > > > understand > > > that " worlds " are all inclusive, with their history, their beings, > > > their > > > anything....and then suddenly pufff...all is gone and another world is > > > born - also all inclusively. > > > -geo- > > > > Yup, that's true... in a way, the world is a state of mind. There isn't > > any single, continuous world, aside from what we construct mentally. > > > there is nothing " we " create. > > .b b.b. " we " are constructed, along with " other " constructions. ouch. - d - Puff...ssssssssssssssssssssss... puff... shsgshsgshhsss....puff............ jlkjglksjdfkjsdf......puff..... is that so? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 15:07:02 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:05 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:37 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain > > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its > > there > > you are it. > > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see > > you > > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > if one distinction is made.. > > even ONE.. > > then like cascading debris.. > > all distinctions arise. > > a world is " born " . > > it will die. > > it is not real. > > butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. > > .b b.b. > > When awake...no distinctions...all is the same Assleep...distinctions. > -geo- > You are making the dictinction between awake and asleep. - d - That is because probably I am asleep idiot. What is wrong with that? Just because it is not considered....considered.....considered...what?......good....should I burry my dickhead into the sand and insisit in the opposite? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 15:11:07 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > > all > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > > -tim- > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > > own being. > > So the questioning is: > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > -geo- > > " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. > > It is not doing anything. > > It is awake. > > - D - > > And what is sleep? > -geo- Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. When you try to have your own existence. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Awake is good enough...as any other name....if...... > -geo- Okay. So be it. Unnamed. -- d -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:42 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake there > > > is > > > a > > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are seen > > > for > > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > > identified > > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > > conceptual framework. > > > -geo- > > > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, because > > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It just > > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. Only, > > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > > -tim- > > > > Ah, you are talking about night sleeps and night dreams? Like dreaming and > > being aware that one is dreaming? > > Am talking about another kind of dreaming. The dream of maya. > > -geo- > > everything we say here is maya. > -dan- > > No...idiot...dumbass. I can write lots of things here....and geomanure is > absent...only is is-ing. No maya. Maya is the play of the imagined center > and its periphery...jackass. The world as the organism interprets it as the > human world...is not nescessarily maya. Maya died with geo-imbecil, with > dan-center. > Time by the watch is not maya. Now..there you > go............................................................. > -geo- methink it doth protest too much, this imaginary geo creature. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > " we " are constructed, along with " other " constructions. > > ouch. > > - d - > > Puff...ssssssssssssssssssssss... puff... > shsgshsgshhsss....puff............ > jlkjglksjdfkjsdf......puff..... > is that so? > -geo- 0z0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:05 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:37 AM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > > > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > > > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain > > > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > > > > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > > > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its > > > there > > > you are it. > > > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > > > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see > > > you > > > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > if one distinction is made.. > > > > even ONE.. > > > > then like cascading debris.. > > > > all distinctions arise. > > > > a world is " born " . > > > > it will die. > > > > it is not real. > > > > butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > When awake...no distinctions...all is the same Assleep...distinctions. > > -geo- > > > > You are making the dictinction between awake and asleep. > > - d - > > That is because probably I am asleep idiot. What is wrong with that? > Just because it is not > considered....considered.....considered...what?......good....should I burry > my dickhead into the sand and insisit in the opposite? > -geo- you are making that distinction because you think it's important to you in some way, not because you are asleep. you think it's important not to be asleep, so you make a distinction between waking and sleeping. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:30 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one > > may > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > > all > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's > > experience. > > -tim- > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is > > our > > own being. > > So the questioning is: > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > -geo- > > " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. > > It is not doing anything. > > It is awake. > > - D - > > And what is sleep? > -geo- Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. When you try to have your own existence. - D - Hmmm... let me think about this. But one is walking in the street or sitting in the varanda...not trying to be or not be...no - wait.... = = = = = = Cant think of anything to say....You are getting smarter and smarter dan....very clever...where did you learned that one? = = = .. .. .. .. .. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 15:36:28 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:34 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > " we " are constructed, along with " other " constructions. > > ouch. > > - d - > > Puff...ssssssssssssssssssssss... puff... > shsgshsgshhsss....puff............ > jlkjglksjdfkjsdf......puff..... > is that so? > -geo- 0z0 I know uzo - from greece. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 15:39:30 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:29 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:31 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no > > > > concern > > > > with > > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, > > > right? > > > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > NO! I AM THE LOSER!! > > > -geo- > > > > Okay, you lose. > > > > Now, I want a chance to lose. > > > > We've talked about the dissolution of somebodies. > > > > Let's talk about the dissolution of antibodies. > > > > Antibodies dissolve when there isn't any body to be anti. > > > > That was a stupid thing to say. > > > > Anything you say is right. > > > > I lose! > > > > - d - > > > > No I will lose again: > > > > One man is awake. > > Another man is sleeping dreaming that is awake. > > or... > > Sometimes I am awake > > Other times I dream I am awake. > > -geo- > > Being awake isn't a sometime thing. > > It isn't located in a body-mind, nor is the body-mind something that > exists > outside of " being awake. " > > - D - > > Yes. That is awake. Now what is sleep?...for after all " awake " - as you > referr to it above - must be kind of relative to its opposite " sleep " > -geo- Well, that's just it. All these conversations depend on relative words. Everything we discuss is relativity. There isn't a you outside of the relativity. You can't get something you like and keep it for yourself. You can't get rid of something you don't like. That which is liked co-arises with that which isn't liked. - d - OK...when I say I am asleep, and I dont like it. That means the other that i like is there? What that means? Dont make it too long...I have more to do then reading your silly posts... -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 15:40:31 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:36 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:05 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:37 AM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > > > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > > > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive > > > certain > > > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > > > > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > > > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its > > > there > > > you are it. > > > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > > > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see > > > you > > > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > if one distinction is made.. > > > > even ONE.. > > > > then like cascading debris.. > > > > all distinctions arise. > > > > a world is " born " . > > > > it will die. > > > > it is not real. > > > > butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > When awake...no distinctions...all is the same Assleep...distinctions. > > -geo- > > > > You are making the dictinction between awake and asleep. > > - d - > > That is because probably I am asleep idiot. What is wrong with that? > Just because it is not > considered....considered.....considered...what?......good....should I > burry > my dickhead into the sand and insisit in the opposite? > -geo- you are making that distinction because you think it's important to you in some way, not because you are asleep. you think it's important not to be asleep, so you make a distinction between waking and sleeping. - d - What is it that I think it is important? the boredom? The slow anguish? The need for pleasure? what? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 15:41:32 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
