Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:39 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no concern > > > with > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > -geo- > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, > > right? > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > - D - > > > > NO! I AM THE LOSER!! > > -geo- > > Okay, you lose. > > Now, I want a chance to lose. > > We've talked about the dissolution of somebodies. > > Let's talk about the dissolution of antibodies. > > Antibodies dissolve when there isn't any body to be anti. > > That was a stupid thing to say. > > Anything you say is right. > > I lose! > > - d - > > No I will lose again: > > One man is awake. > Another man is sleeping dreaming that is awake. > or... > Sometimes I am awake > Other times I dream I am awake. > -geo- who's the " I " in either case? ..b b.b. For the man that is awake there is no " I " . The man that is sleeping and dreaming that is awake, everything is conceptual. To this man " having no self " is just a concept, hearasy. He will say that " obviously " there is no self to be found nowhere - as an idea, but in fact there is an inner observer, an inner entity, usually someone very clever. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 10:45:28 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > well than fuck you asshole. > > no problem right? > > no personality or any of that shit there right? > > LOL! > > .b b.b. Nope, no problem, f*cker ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:44 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake there > > is a > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are seen > > for > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > identified > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > conceptual framework. > > -geo- > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, because > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It just > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. Only, > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. " we " ? but " you " just said.. never mind. ..b b.b. bbb, here there was a turn in teh subject. He is talking about lucid dreaming. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 10:49:30 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:45 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > In a way yes. That is one of the things I like in nagualism. The ability > > to > > visit other worlds - in itself is just an enlargement of consciousness, > > quite useless. But there is another side to it. One is able to > > understand > > that " worlds " are all inclusive, with their history, their beings, their > > anything....and then suddenly pufff...all is gone and another world is > > born - also all inclusively. > > -geo- > > Yup, that's true... in a way, the world is a state of mind. There isn't > any single, continuous world, aside from what we construct mentally. there is nothing " we " create. ..b b.b. Except for the dreamer who " creates " an imaginary ntity. In fact there is no....right. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 10:50:31 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:42 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > all > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > -tim- > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > own being. our very OWN???? > So the questioning is: > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > -geo- you're asking the wrong person. he isn't there. and truthfully..there is no question. it's just thought that there is. and some spend full lifetimes looking for that answer. i'd rather fish or cut bait... and never " know " who's " doing " that. ..b b.b. Wrong person? Which person? To awake is the realization of no person. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 10:50:31 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:37 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its there > you are it. > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see you > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > Now I must ask you: > > One man is awake and says so. > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > Is there not a difference? if one distinction is made.. even ONE.. then like cascading debris.. all distinctions arise. a world is " born " . it will die. it is not real. butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. ..b b.b. When awake...no distinctions...all is the same Assleep...distinctions. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 10:58:38 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:52 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > well than fuck you asshole. > > no problem right? > > no personality or any of that shit there right? > > LOL! > > .b b.b. Nope, no problem, f*cker ;-). and me?.....me....me...I want some too... uuuii avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 10:58:38 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:39 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no concern > > > > with > > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, > > > right? > > > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > NO! I AM THE LOSER!! > > > -geo- > > > > Okay, you lose. > > > > Now, I want a chance to lose. > > > > We've talked about the dissolution of somebodies. > > > > Let's talk about the dissolution of antibodies. > > > > Antibodies dissolve when there isn't any body to be anti. > > > > That was a stupid thing to say. > > > > Anything you say is right. > > > > I lose! > > > > - d - > > > > No I will lose again: > > > > One man is awake. > > Another man is sleeping dreaming that is awake. > > or... > > Sometimes I am awake > > Other times I dream I am awake. > > -geo- > > who's the " I " in either case? > > .b b.b. > > For the man that is awake there is no " I " . > The man that is sleeping and dreaming that is awake, everything is > conceptual. To this man " having no self " is just a concept, hearasy. He will > say that " obviously " there is no self to be found nowhere - as an idea, but > in fact there is an inner observer, an inner entity, usually someone very > clever. > -geo oh...I see. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:44 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake there > > > is a > > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are seen > > > for > > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > > identified > > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > > conceptual framework. > > > -geo- > > > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, because > > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It just > > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. Only, > > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > > " we " ? > > but " you " just said.. > > never mind. > > .b b.b. > > bbb, here there was a turn in teh subject. He is talking about lucid > dreaming. > -geo- lucid for whom? ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > well than fuck you asshole. > > > > no problem right? > > > > no personality or any of that shit there right? > > > > LOL! > > > > .b b.b. > > Nope, no problem, f*cker ;-). that's the ticket! LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:45 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > In a way yes. That is one of the things I like in nagualism. The ability > > > to > > > visit other worlds - in itself is just an enlargement of consciousness, > > > quite useless. But there is another side to it. One is able to > > > understand > > > that " worlds " are all inclusive, with their history, their beings, their > > > anything....and then suddenly pufff...all is gone and another world is > > > born - also all inclusively. > > > -geo- > > > > Yup, that's true... in a way, the world is a state of mind. There isn't > > any single, continuous world, aside from what we construct mentally. > > there is nothing " we " create. > > .b b.b. > > Except for the dreamer who " creates " an imaginary ntity. In fact there is > no....right. > -geo- how about the other right on the left? which way does it go? how fast? how far? how how? ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:42 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > > all > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > > -tim- > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > > own being. > > our very OWN???? > > > So the questioning is: > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > -geo- > > you're asking the wrong person. > > he isn't there. > > and truthfully..there is no question. > > it's just thought that there is. > > and some spend full lifetimes looking for that answer. > > i'd rather fish or cut bait... > > and never " know " who's " doing " that. > > .b b.b. > > Wrong person? Which person? To awake is the realization of no person. > -geo- who or what is awakening? awakening itself right? wrong! awake never sleeps nor dreams nor gives a shit. ..b b.b. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:37 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain > > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its there > > you are it. > > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see you > > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > if one distinction is made.. > > even ONE.. > > then like cascading debris.. > > all distinctions arise. > > a world is " born " . > > it will die. > > it is not real. > > butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. > > .b b.b. > > When awake...no distinctions...all is the same Assleep...distinctions. > -geo- there are no actual distinctions. not one. of any nature. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:25 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:44 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake > > > there > > > is a > > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are > > > seen > > > for > > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > > identified > > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > > conceptual framework. > > > -geo- > > > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, > > because > > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It just > > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. > > Only, > > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > > " we " ? > > but " you " just said.. > > never mind. > > .b b.b. > > bbb, here there was a turn in teh subject. He is talking about lucid > dreaming. > -geo- lucid for whom? ..b b.b. Its when you are sleeping in normal night sleep-kind, dreaming, and sudenly there is an wareness that you are in your bed sleeping and having that dream. -geo avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 11:30:49 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:36 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:37 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain > > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its > > there > > you are it. > > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see > > you > > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > if one distinction is made.. > > even ONE.. > > then like cascading debris.. > > all distinctions arise. > > a world is " born " . > > it will die. > > it is not real. > > butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. > > .b b.b. > > When awake...no distinctions...all is the same Assleep...distinctions. > -geo- there are no actual distinctions. not one. of any nature. ..b b.b. Then its awake...asshole... Have you ever seen an aswhole sleeping....and snoring? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 11:41:57 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " new7892001 " <JB789@> wrote: > > > > > > , so, how do i get enlightened? > > > and how long it takes? > > > * > > > anybody here enlightened? > > > can you make me enlightened? > > > * > > > thank you. > > > > > > you are enlightened....without knowing about, yes > > > > therefore " me know nothing " , right > > > > .... > > > > it takes no time > > > > as long there is an imaginary " you " > > > > there is endless time and space which seperate " you " to real being > > > > .... > > > > there is a whole world which seperate " you " from enlightenment.... > > > > such world is " you " > > > > .... > > > > no enlightened ones within this your imaginary bubble.... > > > > therefore " me knowing nothing " , yes > > > > .... > > > > wake up > > > > then there is no world and no " you " > > > > and also no imaginary enlightenment > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > Ps: would say that there are few ones in here who are more enlightened than few others in here..... > > the question you should ask in here.... > > " who is the most enlightened in here? " .....and also " why does it hurt soo much to be enlightened? " .... > > > > lol > > > oooch! > > this pains me...sooo much. > > whenever i'm infrequently around. > > i prefer to surround the around. > > then no preferences nor references. > > .b b.b. > hey bbb, how is your frequent pain doing?.... still busy with the world...means, with yourself?... again and again and again....? maybe you are addicted to this your pain?.... lol Marc Ps: no need to admit your addiction.... nobody in here who admit it... all are talking out of intense love & pain.... lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:25 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:44 AM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake > > > > there > > > > is a > > > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are > > > > seen > > > > for > > > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > > > identified > > > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > > > conceptual framework. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, > > > because > > > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It just > > > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. > > > Only, > > > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > > > > " we " ? > > > > but " you " just said.. > > > > never mind. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > bbb, here there was a turn in teh subject. He is talking about lucid > > dreaming. > > -geo- > > lucid for whom? > > .b b.b. > > Its when you are sleeping in normal night sleep-kind, dreaming, and sudenly > there is an wareness that you are in your bed sleeping and having that > dream. > -geo who's dreaming the dream.. of the dreamer awakening.. to the dream so dreamed? this lucidity you speak of seems murky to me. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:36 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:37 AM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > > > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > > > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain > > > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > > > > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > > > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its > > > there > > > you are it. > > > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > > > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see > > > you > > > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > if one distinction is made.. > > > > even ONE.. > > > > then like cascading debris.. > > > > all distinctions arise. > > > > a world is " born " . > > > > it will die. > > > > it is not real. > > > > butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > When awake...no distinctions...all is the same Assleep...distinctions. > > -geo- > > there are no actual distinctions. > > not one. > > of any nature. > > .b b.b. > > Then its awake...asshole... > Have you ever seen an aswhole sleeping....and snoring? > -geo- i've been reading your asshole posts. both you and they are asleep. and you're a sole and " whole " asshole whose posting them as you say. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:04 PM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:10 PM > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self?? > > > > > > > > > No. This consciousness is a reflection of the ground. Reflection > > > > > > > > > is not the > > > > > > > > > thing learned at school at all, no. > > > > > > > > > Reflection is manifestation. So the ground is being manifested > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > Without the reflection the ground is non-manifested. > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the way you said this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything reflects the " ground " which is no-thing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is why awareness and its object are not-two > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is why the human consciousness includes everything reflected > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the human experience, including the formation of self > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you like anything...it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the way you said this. > > > > > > > > > > > > but then, you knew i'd say that. > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know you know what the reply to that must be. > > > > > > > > > > your wrong.....so i am right. > > > > > > > > > > that's the way it always goes. > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > everyone wants to be right. > > > > > > > > no one wants to lose. > > > > > > > > everyone wants someone else to be the one who loses. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > Then the lights are off pall... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is also the > > > dissolution of any concern about whether lights are on or off. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no concern with > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > -geo- > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, right? > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > - D - > > > there are no winners nor losers. > > but.. > > i could be wrong. > > i was once. > > about sixty years a go. > > i had a " junior moment " . > > i had thought i was wrong about something. > > .b b.b. I'm a loser. I'm not what I appear to be. (Nor am I something else.) - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:04 PM > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:10 PM > > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self?? > > > > > > > > > > No. This consciousness is a reflection of the ground. Reflection > > > > > > > > > > is not the > > > > > > > > > > thing learned at school at all, no. > > > > > > > > > > Reflection is manifestation. So the ground is being manifested > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > Without the reflection the ground is non-manifested. > > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the way you said this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything reflects the " ground " which is no-thing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is why awareness and its object are not-two > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is why the human consciousness includes everything reflected > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the human experience, including the formation of self > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you like anything...it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the way you said this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but then, you knew i'd say that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know you know what the reply to that must be. > > > > > > > > > > > > your wrong.....so i am right. > > > > > > > > > > > > that's the way it always goes. > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > everyone wants to be right. > > > > > > > > > > no one wants to lose. > > > > > > > > > > everyone wants someone else to be the one who loses. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Then the lights are off pall... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is also the > > > > dissolution of any concern about whether lights are on or off. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no concern with > > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, right? > > > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > there are no winners nor losers. > > > > but.. > > > > i could be wrong. > > > > i was once. > > > > about sixty years a go. > > > > i had a " junior moment " . > > > > i had thought i was wrong about something. > > > > .b b.b. > > > I'm a loser. > > I'm not what I appear to be. > > (Nor am I something else.) > > - d - the beatles were so cool. 8-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive certain automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its there you are it. > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see you as a personality, except if both are awake. > > Now I must ask you: > > One man is awake and says so. > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > Is there not a difference? The question here is, " who are you, who is observing two men and judging them? " Are you awake? If you are awake, then you understand who the one awake is. You don't identify this one with any particular human body. Then, no human body verbalizing, " I am awake, " will deceive you. If a human body states, " I am awake, " and is trying to claim some special knowing or special state for that body-mind, you will not be deceived. If a human body states, " I am awake, " and no attempt is being made for the body-mind to claim it, you won't be deceived. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no concern > > > with > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > -geo- > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, > > right? > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > - D - > > > > NO! I AM THE LOSER!! > > -geo- > > Okay, you lose. > > Now, I want a chance to lose. > > We've talked about the dissolution of somebodies. > > Let's talk about the dissolution of antibodies. > > Antibodies dissolve when there isn't any body to be anti. > > That was a stupid thing to say. > > Anything you say is right. > > I lose! > > - d - > > No I will lose again: > > One man is awake. > Another man is sleeping dreaming that is awake. > or... > Sometimes I am awake > Other times I dream I am awake. > -geo- Being awake isn't a sometime thing. It isn't located in a body-mind, nor is the body-mind something that exists outside of " being awake. " - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > Is there not a difference? > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, all > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > -tim- > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > own being. > So the questioning is: > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > -geo- " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. It is not doing anything. It is awake. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:32 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:25 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:44 AM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake > > > > there > > > > is a > > > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are > > > > seen > > > > for > > > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > > > identified > > > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > > > conceptual framework. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, > > > because > > > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It > > > just > > > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. > > > Only, > > > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > > > > " we " ? > > > > but " you " just said.. > > > > never mind. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > bbb, here there was a turn in teh subject. He is talking about lucid > > dreaming. > > -geo- > > lucid for whom? > > .b b.b. > > Its when you are sleeping in normal night sleep-kind, dreaming, and > sudenly > there is an wareness that you are in your bed sleeping and having that > dream. > -geo who's dreaming the dream.. of the dreamer awakening.. to the dream so dreamed? this lucidity you speak of seems murky to me. ..b b.b. Tell the american or canadian dumb who invented the name - that is the way it is called. I have no idea why is that....but in fact there is a taste of lucidity in these ocasions. bbb, do you dream in your sleep? I mean normal human sleep....not the enlightened dumbass one. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 14:33:32 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:32 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:25 AM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:44 AM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake > > > > > there > > > > > is a > > > > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess are > > > > > seen > > > > > for > > > > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > > > > identified > > > > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through a > > > > > conceptual framework. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, > > > > because > > > > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It > > > > just > > > > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. > > > > Only, > > > > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > > > > > > " we " ? > > > > > > but " you " just said.. > > > > > > never mind. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > bbb, here there was a turn in teh subject. He is talking about lucid > > > dreaming. > > > -geo- > > > > lucid for whom? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Its when you are sleeping in normal night sleep-kind, dreaming, and > > sudenly > > there is an wareness that you are in your bed sleeping and having that > > dream. > > -geo > > who's dreaming the dream.. > > of the dreamer awakening.. > > to the dream so dreamed? > > this lucidity you speak of seems murky to me. > > .b b.b. > > Tell the american or canadian dumb who invented the name - that is the way > it is called. I have no idea why is that....but in fact there is a taste of > lucidity in these ocasions. > bbb, do you dream in your sleep? I mean normal human sleep....not the > enlightened dumbass one. > -geo- my goodness.. are you hurt? good. look into it.. if you can. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
