Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - roberibus111 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:30 AM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:42 AM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one > > may > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > > all > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's > > experience. > > -tim- > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is > > our > > own being. > > our very OWN???? > > > So the questioning is: > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > -geo- > > you're asking the wrong person. > > he isn't there. > > and truthfully..there is no question. > > it's just thought that there is. > > and some spend full lifetimes looking for that answer. > > i'd rather fish or cut bait... > > and never " know " who's " doing " that. > > .b b.b. > > Wrong person? Which person? To awake is the realization of no person. > -geo- who or what is awakening? awakening itself right? wrong! awake never sleeps nor dreams nor gives a shit. ..b b.b. who or what IS giving a shit then? -geo- ..b b.b. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 11:34:52 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > When you try to have your own existence. > > - D - > > Hmmm... let me think about this. > But one is walking in the street or sitting in the varanda...not trying to > be or not be...no - wait.... Yup. Just walking down the street. There's nothing extraordinary that needs to be brought in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:30 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one > > may > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > > all > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's > > experience. > > -tim- > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is > > our > > own being. > > So the questioning is: > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > -geo- > > " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. > > It is not doing anything. > > It is awake. > > - D - > > And what is sleep? > -geo- Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. When you try to have your own existence. - D - What is stuck in relativity? Is it not valid to want to have my own existence? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 15:36:28 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > OK...when I say I am asleep, and I dont like it. That means the other that i > like is there? What that means? > Dont make it too long...I have more to do then reading your silly posts... > -geo- me, too. good point. it means when asleep, sleep. when waking, wake. if you're asleep and don't like it, you're dreaming that you don't like it. it's no different really than if you're dreaming you like it. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:36 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:05 PM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:37 AM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tim: Moreover, isn't personality something 'others' observe, in > > > > construction of perceived 'other'? Or perceived 'self'? > > > > I note no personality here. Thoughts arise. Others may perceive > > > > certain > > > > automatic habits, which correspond to 'personality'. > > > > > > > > geo> Personality is born, is constructed around the sense of inner > > > > separate being. You wil never see you own personality because if its > > > > there > > > > you are it. > > > > It is not a factual something, or some center, it is the set of > > > > behaviours, beleifs, conditionings. But you are right, others will see > > > > you > > > > as a personality, except if both are awake. > > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > if one distinction is made.. > > > > > > even ONE.. > > > > > > then like cascading debris.. > > > > > > all distinctions arise. > > > > > > a world is " born " . > > > > > > it will die. > > > > > > it is not real. > > > > > > butterfly/caterpillar is distinction of flimsy insignificance. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > When awake...no distinctions...all is the same Assleep...distinctions. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > You are making the dictinction between awake and asleep. > > > > - d - > > > > That is because probably I am asleep idiot. What is wrong with that? > > Just because it is not > > considered....considered.....considered...what?......good....should I > > burry > > my dickhead into the sand and insisit in the opposite? > > -geo- > > you are making that distinction because you think it's important to you in > some way, not because you are asleep. > > you think it's important not to be asleep, so you make a distinction between > waking and sleeping. > > - d - > > What is it that I think it is important? the boredom? The slow anguish? The > need for pleasure? what? > -geo- those are categories defined for thought. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:03 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > When you try to have your own existence. > > - D - > > Hmmm... let me think about this. > But one is walking in the street or sitting in the varanda...not trying to > be or not be...no - wait.... Yup. Just walking down the street. There's nothing extraordinary that needs to be brought in. geo> No, no. I ws going to say that... wlaking down the street and .... I want to awake. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 16:08:08 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:03 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > > > When you try to have your own existence. > > > > - D - > > > > Hmmm... let me think about this. > > But one is walking in the street or sitting in the varanda...not trying to > > be or not be...no - wait.... > > Yup. > > Just walking down the street. > > There's nothing extraordinary that needs to be brought in. > > geo> No, no. I ws going to say that... wlaking down the street and .... I > want to awake. > -geo- Do you see the contradiction in that? - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:10 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:30 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one > > > may > > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that > > > matters, > > > all > > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way > > > to > > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's > > > experience. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have > > > some > > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is > > > our > > > own being. > > > So the questioning is: > > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > > -geo- > > > > " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. > > > > It is not doing anything. > > > > It is awake. > > > > - D - > > > > And what is sleep? > > -geo- > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > When you try to have your own existence. > > - D - > > What is stuck in relativity? > Is it not valid to want to have my own existence? > -geo- There is no such thing as anything having its own existence. It's relativity. The wanting to have an own existence, as contradictory as it is, is still arising through relativity, conditioning. Once this is clear, the contradiction is obvious. - d - Something remembers that a something HUGE and imensily relevant is having its own existence. This something loves it...and wants it again because it was wonderfull. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 16:16:15 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:10 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:30 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one > > > may > > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that > > > matters, > > > all > > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way > > > to > > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's > > > experience. > > > -tim- > > > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have > > > some > > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is > > > our > > > own being. > > > So the questioning is: > > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > > -geo- > > > > " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. > > > > It is not doing anything. > > > > It is awake. > > > > - D - > > > > And what is sleep? > > -geo- > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > When you try to have your own existence. > > - D - > > What is stuck in relativity? > Is it not valid to want to have my own existence? > -geo- There is no such thing as anything having its own existence. geo>Is there not a......a.....(any name) that is having its own existence? It's relativity. The wanting to have an own existence, as contradictory as it is, is still arising through relativity, conditioning. Once this is clear, the contradiction is obvious. - d - avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 16:16:15 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:12 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:03 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > > > When you try to have your own existence. > > > > - D - > > > > Hmmm... let me think about this. > > But one is walking in the street or sitting in the varanda...not trying > > to > > be or not be...no - wait.... > > Yup. > > Just walking down the street. > > There's nothing extraordinary that needs to be brought in. > > geo> No, no. I ws going to say that... wlaking down the street and .... I > want to awake. > -geo- Do you see the contradiction in that? - d - In what exactly? -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 16:19:17 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:12 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:03 PM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > > > > > When you try to have your own existence. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > Hmmm... let me think about this. > > > But one is walking in the street or sitting in the varanda...not trying > > > to > > > be or not be...no - wait.... > > > > Yup. > > > > Just walking down the street. > > > > There's nothing extraordinary that needs to be brought in. > > > > geo> No, no. I ws going to say that... wlaking down the street and .... I > > want to awake. > > -geo- > > Do you see the contradiction in that? > > - d - > > In what exactly? > -geo- In the situation in which you are a person walking down the street, you assume you can be separated from the entire situation to know that it is a dream, you believe that you exist separately from the dream and can wake up, and want to wake up but are still walking down the street .... - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:10 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:30 PM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one > > > > may > > > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that > > > > matters, > > > > all > > > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way > > > > to > > > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's > > > > experience. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have > > > > some > > > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is > > > > our > > > > own being. > > > > So the questioning is: > > > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. > > > > > > It is not doing anything. > > > > > > It is awake. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > And what is sleep? > > > -geo- > > > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > > > When you try to have your own existence. > > > > - D - > > > > What is stuck in relativity? > > Is it not valid to want to have my own existence? > > -geo- > > There is no such thing as anything having its own existence. > > It's relativity. > > The wanting to have an own existence, as contradictory as it is, is still > arising through relativity, conditioning. > > Once this is clear, the contradiction is obvious. > > - d - > > Something remembers that a something HUGE and imensily relevant is having > its own existence. This something loves it...and wants it again because it > was wonderfull. > -geo- make-believe. fantasy. memories of the womb. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:10 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:30 PM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one > > > > may > > > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that > > > > matters, > > > > all > > > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way > > > > to > > > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's > > > > experience. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have > > > > some > > > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is > > > > our > > > > own being. > > > > So the questioning is: > > > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. > > > > > > It is not doing anything. > > > > > > It is awake. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > And what is sleep? > > > -geo- > > > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > > > When you try to have your own existence. > > > > - D - > > > > What is stuck in relativity? > > Is it not valid to want to have my own existence? > > -geo- > > There is no such thing as anything having its own existence. > > geo>Is there not a......a.....(any name) that is having its own existence? anything having its own existence has a definition. a definition requires an inside and outside. whatever is defined as existing therefore only can be ascribed its definition in relativity. so it never has its own existence to its self, of its own. it is always defined relatively. and relations are always changing, never static. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:14 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:04 PM > > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > dan330033 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:10 PM > > > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " > > > > > > > > <Roberibus111@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " > > > > > > > > > <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Self?? > > > > > > > > > > > No. This consciousness is a reflection of the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > Reflection > > > > > > > > > > > is not the > > > > > > > > > > > thing learned at school at all, no. > > > > > > > > > > > Reflection is manifestation. So the ground is being > > > > > > > > > > > manifested > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > Without the reflection the ground is non-manifested. > > > > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the way you said this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything reflects the " ground " which is no-thing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is why awareness and its object are not-two > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is why the human consciousness includes everything > > > > > > > > > > reflected > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the human experience, including the formation of self > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you like anything...it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the way you said this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but then, you knew i'd say that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know you know what the reply to that must be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your wrong.....so i am right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's the way it always goes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > > everyone wants to be right. > > > > > > > > > > > > no one wants to lose. > > > > > > > > > > > > everyone wants someone else to be the one who loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > Then the lights are off pall... > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is also the > > > > > dissolution of any concern about whether lights are on or off. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > The dissolution of any somebodies ever winning or losing is no > > > > > concern with > > > > > winning or loosing. I am not playing with words - as you are trying. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > So, you are the " winner, " and I am the " loser. " But it's not a game, > > > > right? > > > > > > > > Okay, I lose. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > there are no winners nor losers. > > > > > > but.. > > > > > > i could be wrong. > > > > > > i was once. > > > > > > about sixty years a go. > > > > > > i had a " junior moment " . > > > > > > i had thought i was wrong about something. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > I'm a loser. > > > > I'm not what I appear to be. > > > > (Nor am I something else.) > > > > - d - > > the beatles were so cool. > > 8-) > > .b b.b. > > OK...but it was enough. > Remember when you actualy liked Paul? > -geo- gosh...no i don't remember that ever being the case. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > Castor Oil: damn this shit tastes bad! > > > > Poor Archer: fuck! i shot an arrow into my faceless head! > > > > .b b.b. > > Damn, I hate when that happens. > > - d - yeah it's tough. but in his case he didn't lose face about it. but he sure as hell hurt a lot. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " new7892001 " <JB789@> wrote: > > > > > > > > , so, how do i get enlightened? > > > > and how long it takes? > > > > * > > > > anybody here enlightened? > > > > can you make me enlightened? > > > > * > > > > thank you. > > > > > > > > > you are enlightened....without knowing about, yes > > > > > > therefore " me know nothing " , right > > > > > > .... > > > > > > it takes no time > > > > > > as long there is an imaginary " you " > > > > > > there is endless time and space which seperate " you " to real being > > > > > > .... > > > > > > there is a whole world which seperate " you " from enlightenment.... > > > > > > such world is " you " > > > > > > .... > > > > > > no enlightened ones within this your imaginary bubble.... > > > > > > therefore " me knowing nothing " , yes > > > > > > .... > > > > > > wake up > > > > > > then there is no world and no " you " > > > > > > and also no imaginary enlightenment > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Ps: would say that there are few ones in here who are more enlightened than few others in here..... > > > the question you should ask in here.... > > > " who is the most enlightened in here? " .....and also " why does it hurt soo much to be enlightened? " .... > > > > > > lol > > > > > > oooch! > > > > this pains me...sooo much. > > > > whenever i'm infrequently around. > > > > i prefer to surround the around. > > > > then no preferences nor references. > > > > .b b.b. > > > i prefer surround sound. > > with all holes plugged. > > tommy, can you hear me? > > - d - tommy's a wizard! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > In a way yes. That is one of the things I like in nagualism. The ability to > > > > visit other worlds - in itself is just an enlargement of consciousness, > > > > quite useless. But there is another side to it. One is able to understand > > > > that " worlds " are all inclusive, with their history, their beings, their > > > > anything....and then suddenly pufff...all is gone and another world is > > > > born - also all inclusively. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Yup, that's true... in a way, the world is a state of mind. There isn't any single, continuous world, aside from what we construct mentally. > > > > > > there is nothing " we " create. > > > > .b b.b. > > " we " are constructed, along with " other " constructions. > > ouch. > > - d - well that's quite a construction itself. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > roberibus111 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:40 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > roberibus111 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:32 PM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:25 AM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > roberibus111 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:44 AM > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This what I dont understand in dan's objection. When one is awake > > > > > > there > > > > > > is a > > > > > > perception of the whole " field " , thought....thinking processess > > > > > > are > > > > > > seen > > > > > > for > > > > > > what they are within their limited field. When sleeping, one is > > > > > > identified > > > > > > with the thinking dynamics, with thoughts, and all is seen through > > > > > > a > > > > > > conceptual framework. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > From here, 'sleeping dreams' are more real than the waking state, > > > > > because > > > > > there's no illusion of a separate person there within the dream. It > > > > > just > > > > > unfolds, which is actually what happens in waking consciousness too. > > > > > Only, > > > > > we imagine a perceiver of that consciousness. > > > > > > > > " we " ? > > > > > > > > but " you " just said.. > > > > > > > > never mind. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > bbb, here there was a turn in teh subject. He is talking about lucid > > > > dreaming. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > lucid for whom? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Its when you are sleeping in normal night sleep-kind, dreaming, and > > > sudenly > > > there is an wareness that you are in your bed sleeping and having that > > > dream. > > > -geo > > > > who's dreaming the dream.. > > > > of the dreamer awakening.. > > > > to the dream so dreamed? > > > > this lucidity you speak of seems murky to me. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > Tell the american or canadian dumb who invented the name - that is the way > > it is called. I have no idea why is that....but in fact there is a taste > > of > > lucidity in these ocasions. > > bbb, do you dream in your sleep? I mean normal human sleep....not the > > enlightened dumbass one. > > -geo- > > my goodness.. > > are you hurt? > > good. > > look into it.. > > if you can. > > LOL! > > .b b.b. > > Do you dream? > -geo- i am a dream. and a kind of a dreamboat too the gals tell me. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > roberibus111 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:42 AM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > > > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > > > > all > > > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > > > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > > > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > > > > own being. > > > > > > our very OWN???? > > > > > > > So the questioning is: > > > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > you're asking the wrong person. > > > > > > he isn't there. > > > > > > and truthfully..there is no question. > > > > > > it's just thought that there is. > > > > > > and some spend full lifetimes looking for that answer. > > > > > > i'd rather fish or cut bait... > > > > > > and never " know " who's " doing " that. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Wrong person? Which person? To awake is the realization of no person. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > who or what is awakening? > > > > awakening itself right? > > > > wrong! > > > > awake never sleeps nor dreams nor gives a shit. > > > > .b b.b. > > > > .b b.b. > > > except to say " bullshit " once in a while. > > > - d - bullshit. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 4, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:49 PM Re: me know nothing Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:10 PM > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:30 PM > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 2:32 PM > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, > > > > one > > > > may > > > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that > > > > matters, > > > > all > > > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way > > > > to > > > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's > > > > experience. > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have > > > > some > > > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters > > > > is > > > > our > > > > own being. > > > > So the questioning is: > > > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > " I am awake, " is not asking any questions. > > > > > > It is not doing anything. > > > > > > It is awake. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > And what is sleep? > > > -geo- > > > > Sleep is when you try to get outside of relativity. > > > > When you try to have your own existence. > > > > - D - > > > > What is stuck in relativity? > > Is it not valid to want to have my own existence? > > -geo- > > There is no such thing as anything having its own existence. > > geo>Is there not a......a.....(any name) that is having its own existence? anything having its own existence has a definition. a definition requires an inside and outside. whatever is defined as existing therefore only can be ascribed its definition in relativity. so it never has its own existence to its self, of its own. it is always defined relatively. and relations are always changing, never static. - d - That is the point. To say that there is not a ground independent of the mind/brain is ignorance. To say that there is one is stupidity - an attempt ot objectify. -geo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2009 > Something remembers that a something HUGE and imensily relevant is having > its own existence. This something loves it...and wants it again because it > was wonderfull.> -geo- In my view, a certain "thrill" left an "impact" followed by the desire to "want, have, or possess" that "HUGE experience" again via various strategies. These attemptings ARE psychophysical "contractionings/tensionings" which effectively prevent the recognition that what is being sought is that which is prior to (yet also ever-present at the same time as) the seeking (the attempt to get). What "allowed" the "HUGE experience" to occur in the first place was that there was no effort (intentional or otherwise) to seek or pursue anything at all. In other words, simply non-strategically being present in the present as presence. In short, there was merely, just, and only unobstructed openness (aware-space) as no-seeking and no-dilemma. Consequently, there was "room" for something "other" (than seeking) to present itself as being tacitly obvious. However, once the "memory" of that "HUGE" experience is pursued, the psychophysical apparatus (body-mind) tenses up (constricts) and this clenching/grasping so captivates and kidnaps attention that the view of (as) aware-spaciousness (that which is being sought yet is ever present as no-thing) to which, within which, and as an expression of which the seekingness occurs is effectively overlooked. Michael A. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a way yes. That is one of the things I like in nagualism. The ability to > > > > > visit other worlds - in itself is just an enlargement of consciousness, > > > > > quite useless. But there is another side to it. One is able to understand > > > > > that " worlds " are all inclusive, with their history, their beings, their > > > > > anything....and then suddenly pufff...all is gone and another world is > > > > > born - also all inclusively. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Yup, that's true... in a way, the world is a state of mind. There isn't any single, continuous world, aside from what we construct mentally. > > > > > > > > > there is nothing " we " create. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > " we " are constructed, along with " other " constructions. > > > > ouch. > > > > - d - > > > well that's quite a construction itself. > > .b b.b. yeah, getting too enamored of constructions is pointless. but then, what isn't? - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > roberibus111 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:42 AM > > > > Re: me know nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Now I must ask you: > > > > > > > > > > > > One man is awake and says so. > > > > > > Other man is dreaming and saying he is awake. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there not a difference? > > > > > > > > > > Ultimately, no. All this talk is dream. > > > > > > > > > > Provisionally, yes. One may be suffering from some false notions, one may > > > > > not. The thing is, nobody knows who that one is... so all that matters, > > > > > all > > > > > that *can* matter, is one's own awakening. There is literally no way to > > > > > judge the awakening of another. We cannot get inside another's experience. > > > > > -tim- > > > > > > > > > > Of course it is about the own awakening. That is all. One can have some > > > > > notions about what is going on in anothers being...but what matters is our > > > > > own being. > > > > > > > > our very OWN???? > > > > > > > > > So the questioning is: > > > > > Am I awake?........... or dreaming that I am awake? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > you're asking the wrong person. > > > > > > > > he isn't there. > > > > > > > > and truthfully..there is no question. > > > > > > > > it's just thought that there is. > > > > > > > > and some spend full lifetimes looking for that answer. > > > > > > > > i'd rather fish or cut bait... > > > > > > > > and never " know " who's " doing " that. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > Wrong person? Which person? To awake is the realization of no person. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who or what is awakening? > > > > > > awakening itself right? > > > > > > wrong! > > > > > > awake never sleeps nor dreams nor gives a shit. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > except to say " bullshit " once in a while. > > > > > > - d - > > > bullshit. > > :-) > > .b b.b. lol. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > That is the point. > To say that there is not a ground independent of the mind/brain is > ignorance. > To say that there is one is stupidity - an attempt ot objectify. > -geo okay. is and is not, don't apply. yes and no, don't apply. do and don't ... ... .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 5, 2009 - Michael Adamson Nisargadatta Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:11 PM Re: me know nothing > Something remembers that a something HUGE and imensily relevant is having > its own existence. This something loves it...and wants it again because it > was wonderfull. > -geo- In my view, a certain " thrill " left an " impact " followed by the desire to " want, have, or possess " that " HUGE experience " again via various strategies. These attemptings ARE psychophysical " contractionings/tensionings " which effectively prevent the recognition that what is being sought is that which is prior to (yet also ever-present at the same time as) the seeking (the attempt to get). What " allowed " the " HUGE experience " to occur in the first place was that there was no effort (intentional or otherwise) to seek or pursue anything at all. In other words, simply non-strategically being present in the present as presence. In short, there was merely, just, and only unobstructed openness (aware-space) as no-seeking and no-dilemma. Consequently, there was " room " for something " other " (than seeking) to present itself as being tacitly obvious. However, once the " memory " of that " HUGE " experience is pursued, the psychophysical apparatus (body-mind) tenses up (constricts) and this clenching/grasping so captivates and kidnaps attention that the view of (as) aware-spaciousness (that which is being sought yet is ever present as no-thing) to which, within which, and as an expression of which the seekingness occurs is effectively overlooked. Michael A. geo> What you say is a fact. That happens indeed. The problem is that there are very subtle ways the mind finds to try to objectify the subjct. Even to call it a subject is objectification. Even when the mind sees that it can not be named, pointed, referred, thought, imagined... still the hidden process goes on. For instance..there seems to be a certain period in peoples " path " where this " it " is imagined as some dark sorrounding space. Now i just remembered that Nis. even sujests that this is a valid idea for some....at some stage....never mind that. Or some hidden matter that the senses can not capture - as in a chapter of the tao te king. (that which can not be seen, touched, tasted etc...makes one...etc..). Or the mind can go as far as imagining that there is only one homogeneous mixture where the ground is one part....ha...the game goes on endlessly. The fac is: it can only be as this - only then, when this is realized insight shows my real nature. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090526-0, 26/05/2009 Tested on: 4/6/2009 20:32:23 avast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
