When Words Collide

[Beggar 0]

 

 

When Words Collide

BY: JAGABANDHU DASA

 

Mar 17, FORT WHITE, FLORIDA (SUN) —

Please consider the Supremely Beautiful and Superexcellent commentary by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto 1, Chapter Three, Text Fifteen as follows:

 

• "According to Sripada Sridhara Svami, the original commentator on the Bhagavatam, there is not always a devastation after the change of every Manu. And yet this inundation after the period of Caksusa Manu took place in order to show some wonders to Satyavrata. But Sri Jiva Gosvami has given definite proofs from authoritative scriptures (like
  Visnu-dharmottara, Markendeya Purana, Harivamsa
  , etc.) that there is always a devastation after the end of each and every Manu. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti has also supported Srila Jiva Goswami, and he (Sri Cakravarti) has also quoted from
  Bhagavatamrta
  about this inundation after each Manu."
  
  

 

Possibly, you may know that Sri Rupa and Sri Sanatan had a difference of opinion about Lord Balarama's Rasa dance or that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Saraswati Thakur also had philosophical disagreements based on their individual unique perspectives.

 

In other words, if we carefully study the expressions of the Sri Gaudiya Vaishnava Acharyas there are apparent differences of transcendental opinion which remain incongruous or unfathomable to those without similar maturity of Real Divine Understanding. Same as it ever was.

 

Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had many dealings with many personalities of all diverse philosophical persuasions towards whom He always exhibited flawless humility by respecting even those with whom He had intrinsic ideological disagreements. Mahaprabhu convinced not by argument of the correct siddhanta, but rather with the Sweetness of His Own Charm. His Real Succession are naturally found to be imbued with and immersed within This Same Sweetness in their combined worship of Sri Hari Nam Prabhu, the Avatar for the Age of Quarrel.

 

Perhaps, you may know the aphorism from

Vedanta, tarko-pratistanat

: "Argument can never help us reach any real conclusion."

 

 

[theist 1]

A very important article by Jagabandhu IMO. I just encountered another such discrepency in the Uddhava Gita commentary by Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur and purport by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati.

 

When referring to the word svarvasa in the first verse VCT says it means "residence in Vaikuntha" and BSS says it "refers to the planets where the demigods reside."

 

Trying to get all these things sorted out and harmonized to perfection misses the point. It leads to splits over such issues like the fall or no fall controversy. And who cares about if there was some devastation after such and such Manu or not? Not I. The truth is I don't have much faith in the Vedic cosmology at all anyway including these Manu's etc. No doubt there is some kind of hierarchy in the universe,it is just is not important to me to know the details.

 

So what we can imbibe from association with great devotees if not this kind of knowledge. Well there is transcendental knowledge of the self and Superself and knowledge of the relationship. What other knowledge is needed?

 

Beyond that even we can take inspiration from their bhakti, their cent per cent dedication to the Lord and willingness to help others come to God. This encompasses all the adjunct qualities like humility etc. as was mentioned by Jagabandhu in referrence to Lord Caitanya's way of relating to others.

 

I believe the above article goes to very essence of this sampradaya which is characterized by personal transformation and not just head knowledge.

[suchandra 1]

 

 

Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had many dealings with many personalities of all diverse philosophical persuasions towards whom He always exhibited flawless humility by respecting even those with whom He had intrinsic ideological disagreements. Mahaprabhu convinced not by argument of the correct siddhanta, but rather with the Sweetness of His Own Charm.

 

This is rather a vague information. Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, giving the example of not convincing by argument of the correct siddhanta? If you make such a statement, then he should explain in detail, how Lord Chaitanya couldn't present the sastrical evidence when dealing with deviants. Otherwise this looks like present GBC policy, don't ask any questions, just be humble, sweet and be satisfied with your own charm. And whatever you might bring forward from sastra, we won't change our parameters since our position is absolutism.

[Beggar 0]

 

This is rather a vague information. Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, giving the example of not convincing by argument of the correct siddhanta? If you make such a statement, then he should explain in detail, how Lord Chaitanya couldn't present the sastrical evidence when dealing with deviants. Otherwise this looks like present GBC policy, don't ask any questions, just be humble, sweet and be satisfied with your own charm. And whatever you might bring forward from sastra, we won't change our parameters since our position is absolutism.

That's on the verge of psycho, that is, comparing the way Mahaprabhu charmed Sarvabhauma Battacarya with GBC propaganda. Mahaprabhu clearly gave His siddhanta to both Sarvabhauma and Prakasananda Saraswati, but His sweetness and deep humility combined with His vastly learned presentation eventually melted their hearts.

[Svarupa 0]

 

When referring to the word svarvasa in the first verse VCT says it means "residence in Vaikuntha" and BSS says it "refers to the planets where the demigods reside."

 

So what we can imbibe from association with great devotees if not this kind of knowledge. Well there is transcendental knowledge of the self and Superself and knowledge of the relationship. it is characterized by personal transformation and not just head knowledge.

 

Interesting comments that sends one to futher reseaching Prabhupada's books, thank you theist.

[suchandra 1]

 

That's on the verge of psycho, that is, comparing the way Mahaprabhu charmed Sarvabhauma Battacarya with GBC propaganda. Mahaprabhu clearly gave His siddhanta to both Sarvabhauma and Prakasananda Saraswati, but His sweetness and deep humility combined with His vastly learned presentation eventually melted their hearts.

When saying, no, Lord Caitanya only made clear statements based on sastra, you say, "that's on the verge of psycho"? Looks rather like you're a psycho.

To say, "Mahaprabhu convinced not by argument of the correct siddhanta, but rather with the Sweetness of His Own Charm", is bogus nonsense, speculation.

[Beggar 0]

 

That's on the verge of psycho, that is, comparing the way Mahaprabhu charmed Sarvabhauma Battacarya with GBC propaganda. Mahaprabhu clearly gave His siddhanta to both Sarvabhauma and Prakasananda Saraswati, but His sweetness and deep humility combined with His vastly learned presentation eventually melted their hearts.

 

 

When saying, no, Lord Caitanya only made clear statements based on sastra, you say, "that's on the verge of psycho"? Looks rather like you're a psycho.

To say, "Mahaprabhu convinced not by argument of the correct siddhanta, but rather with the Sweetness of His Own Charm", is bogus nonsense.

 

Wait a minute, did I write, "Mahaprabhu convinced not by argument of the correct siddhanta, but rather with the Sweetness of His Own Charm" or

"Mahaprabhu clearly gave His siddhanta to both Sarvabhauma and Prakasananda Saraswati, but His sweetness and deep humility combined with His vastly learned presentation eventually melted their hearts."

 

Changing someone's words for your own purposes is clearly out of bounds. Anyway look at this:

The Golden Volcano of Divine Love

Srila Sridhar Maharaj

Seven Days of Silence

 

In a few days, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu began to hear Vedanta from Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, and as Sarvabhauma would speak. He would remain silent like a good boy, as if He were hearing with a submissive attitude. But after he had been teaching Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu for seven days, Sarvabhauma had some doubt in his mind. He thought, "What is the matter? I am such a great scholar in Vedanta and logic, and I am trying my best with all my intelligence to put before Him the inner meaning of Vedanta, but I draw no response from Him. He is only quietly attending my discourse as if He is deaf and dumb. And I can't say that He does not understand me, for He has a sharp intellect. I am sure of this, but still He gives no appreciation, no response whatsoever. He raises no question and gives no indication whether He understands or not—nothing of the kind. Then what am I doing?" He could not keep to himself any longer. He put

 

 

artho'yam brahma sutranam

bharatartha-vinimayah

gayatri bhasya rupo 'sau

vedarthah paribrimhitah

 

"Srimad-Bhagavatam represents the real purport of Vedanta-sutra. And although it is very difficult to draw out the real purpose of the one hundred thousand verse epic Mahabharata, the great history of the world, Srimad-Bhagavatam has come to give its real meaning. The mother of all Vedic knowledge is the Gayatri mantra. Srimad-Bhagavatam gives the gist of Gayatri in a very full-fledged way. And the supplementary truths of the Vedas are also found within Srimad-Bhagavatam." Therefore, Vedanta must be explained in the line of the truth which has been expressed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Only then can the real meaning be understood.

The Aspiration of Liberated Souls

When Sriman Mahaprabhu mentioned Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sarvabhauma, being a learned pandita could not deny its validity. He said, "Yes, I also like Srimad-Bhagavatam. And I especially like one very beautiful verse. At that time, Sarvabhauma, to regain his lost prestige, began to explain the atmarama verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam:

 

atmaramas ca munayo

nirgrantha apy urukrame

kurvanty ahaitukim bhaktim

ittham-bhuta guno harih

 

"Even the liberated souls fully satisfied in the self are irresistibly attracted by the superexcellent qualities of Krsna and surrender to Him with unalloyed devotion."

Sarvabhauma explained this verse in nine different ways, while Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu/ as before, sat silently hearing. After he had finished his explanation Sarvabhauma thought that he had regained his position to a certain extent. Still, as a courtesy, he asked Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, "Are You satisfied with this explanation? If You can give any more light to this verse, will listen to that." Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu told him, "If you order me, I may try." Then He gave eighteen different types of explanations of that verse, leaving aside the nine already given by Sarvabhauma.

At that time, while listening to the explanation of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sarvabhauma gradually saw that he was losing his position. His pride was finished.Astounded, he thought, "This youth, this young boy, is not an ordinary person. No ordinary intellect can refute my arguments. Leaving aside all of my attempts to explain this verse. He gave eighteen wonderful explanations of this particular verse. What is this? Such consistent, irresistible, devotional, and beautiful explanations are coming, superceding all those that with great energy and effort I explained. No human being can surpass my explanations. No human intellect can cross mine. This is a different sort of explanation. It is all-encompassing. But it is coming from this young boy? What is this?"

Mystic Revelation

Gradually, he lost his faith in himself and became baffled. And then he recalled how Gopinatha Acarya had said that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was not a human being and thought, "It is not possible for a human to explain things in this way—it is something supernatural. Then Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu revealed to Sarvabhauma His spiritual position as Narayana and Krsna combined. In a trance, Sarvabhauma saw all these things and fell at the Lord's feet, and almost completely lost consciousness.

When he arose from his trance, he found that boy still sitting there like a student with great humility. Then Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu asked him, "May I go for today?"

Sarvabhauma said, "Yes, you may go now." The Lord went away, and Sarvabhauma remained there. After some time, he recovered, and began to think, "What have I seen? Four-handed Narayana, then Krsna playing the flute! I was not defeated by a man—that is my solace. Sarvabhauma became a changed man and composed two verses:

 

vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-

siksartham ekah purusah puranah

sri-krsna-caitanya-sarira-dhari

krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye

 

"I surrender unto the lotus feet of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is an ocean of mercy. He is the Original Personality of Godhead, Krsna, and has descended to teach us the real meaning of knowledge, renunciation, and devotion to Him."

 

kalan nastam bhakti-yogam nijam yah

praduskartum krsna-caitanya-nama

avirbhutas tasya padaravinde

gadham gadham liyatam citta-bhrngah

 

"Let the honeybee of my mind dive deep into the lotus feet of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna Himself. He has appeared to revive the path of unalloyed devotion, which had almost become lost due to the influence of time."

[Beggar 0]

The Golden Volcano of Divine Love

Srila Sridhar Maharaj

A Taste Supreme

These two verses were composed by Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya expressing that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supreme Lord Himself. The next day, early in the morning, Sriman Mahaprabhu, with some prasddam from the Jagannatha temple, ran to Sarvabhauma while he was still in bed. He cried in a loud voice, "Sarvabhauma—How wonderful is this prasadam!. It has a very extraordinary taste. Please take it. I have come for you with this prasadam." Sarvabhauma arose from bed as Mahaprabhu offered him the prasadam, and he could not but accept it without even cleansing his mouth. Ordinarily a brahmana pandita, early in the morning, will first cleanse his mouth, bathe, offer different prayers, and only then take prasadam. But when Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally came and offered it to him with His own hand, what could Sarvabhauma do? He had to accept that prasadam. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu told him, "We have previously experienced th e taste of so many things like ghee, rice, sweets, and spices. We all know what flavors they have, but this is wonderful. This has touched the lips of Krsna Himself. It is extraordinarily wonderful and tasteful." Then, Sarvabhauma eagerly ate that prasadam and began uttering some mantras:

 

suskam paryusitam vapi

nitam va dura-desatah

prapti-matrena bhoktavyam

natra kala-vicarana

 

"One should take the maha-prasada of Sri Krsna as soon as one receives it, without consideration of time or place, even though it may be dried up, stale, or brought from a distant country."

 

na desa-niyamas tatra

na kala-niyamas tatha

praptam annam drutam sistair

bhoktavyam harir abravit

 

The prasada of Sri Krsna is to be taken by gentlemen as soon as it is received, without hesitation. There are no regulative principles concerning time and place. This is the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

"Today, I Have Conquered The World"

He took prasadam, and the Lord and servant embraced one another and began to dance in ecstasy. As they danced, the symptoms of ecstasy appeared in both of them. They perspired, trembled, and shed tears. Absorbed in ecstatic love, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "Today, I have conquered the whole world, for I have converted a scholar like Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya. Now, he has so much faith in maha-prasada that without performing any Vedic rituals, he took the prasadam. My mission is successful!"

From that day on, Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya knew nothing but the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and could only explain the scriptures with the conclusions of devotion. Seeing that Sarvabhauma had become a follower of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Gopinatha Acarya began to clap his hands and dance. He said, "Well, Sarvabhauma, what do you think now?" Sarvabhauma replied, "Gopinatha, you are my real friend, for it is by your grace that I received the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

[suchandra 1]

The reason why I posted here was this sentence in the article you posted above: "Mahaprabhu convinced not by argument of the correct siddhanta, but rather with the Sweetness of His Own Charm."

To say, "Mahaprabhu convinced not by argument of the correct siddhanta", is rather aparadha.

[AncientMariner 0]

 

A very important article by Jagabandhu IMO. I just encountered another such discrepency in the Uddhava Gita commentary by Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur and purport by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati.

 

When referring to the word svarvasa in the first verse VCT says it means "residence in Vaikuntha" and BSS says it "refers to the planets where the demigods reside."

 

Trying to get all these things sorted out and harmonized to perfection misses the point. It leads to splits over such issues like the fall or no fall controversy. And who cares about if there was some devastation after such and such Manu or not? Not I. The truth is I don't have much faith in the Vedic cosmology at all anyway including these Manu's etc. No doubt there is some kind of hierarchy in the universe,it is just is not important to me to know the details.

 

So what we can imbibe from association with great devotees if not this kind of knowledge. Well there is transcendental knowledge of the self and Superself and knowledge of the relationship. What other knowledge is needed?

 

Beyond that even we can take inspiration from their bhakti, their cent per cent dedication to the Lord and willingness to help others come to God. This encompasses all the adjunct qualities like humility etc. as was mentioned by Jagabandhu in referrence to Lord Caitanya's way of relating to others.

 

I believe the above article goes to very essence of this sampradaya which is characterized by personal transformation and not just head knowledge.

 

 

Well said.

[Pretender 0]

Please excuse me. When I wrote When Words Collide I was aware that some controversial discussion might arise if I omitted one word of adverbial emphasis, the word "just" as in "...just the correct siddhanta...," but let it fly as it was hoping for some good discourse. The reference to Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya was in my my mind and was hoping others might follow the thought. My apologies if I have offended anyone. What I composed was meant to try and diffuse some of the cyber acrimony by trying to give rememberance of Mahaprabhu's Sweet Charm. I'm sorry if some find this offensive.

[AncientMariner 0]

 

Please excuse me. When I wrote When Words Collide I was aware that some controversial discussion might arise if I omitted one word of adverbial emphasis, the word "just" as in "...just the correct siddhanta...," but let it fly as it was hoping for some good discourse. The reference to Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya was in my my mind and was hoping others might follow the thought. My apologies if I have offended anyone. What I composed was meant to try and diffuse some of the cyber acrimony by trying to give rememberance of Mahaprabhu's Sweet Charm. I'm sorry if some find this offensive.

 

 

I wasn't even paying attention to that level of detail so there is no way I could be offended by that. The overall message of your article was brilliant in my opinion.

[mahak 0]

when worlds collide??? I thought this was leading to discussion of the fragility of all we see (the material universe).

 

It gives me an idea though, if I may. "When Worlds Collide" is very topical, as we may be on the brink of this eventuality. On the discussion board of world topics, I may soon begin to discuss the philosophy of Velakovski, his utilization of ancient scripts to verify his science (mainly Visnu Purana). In our solar system, there in irrefutable evidence that such collisions take place, even as humans watched the show from this very planet, and wrote of what they witnessed. (Or carved on the walls of their survival caves.) The asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, the wobbly Earth, the backwards spin of Venus, and of course, per velakovski, the play of the Gods (among whom King Prthu is the chief architect).

 

It is my present project, thus my rare contributions to audarya of late. Along with the motion picture of Yami, the beautiful Goddess of Death.

 

Hope all are well, we have a good show in front of us, we may live to see what those who wrote of the Gods saw.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist 1]

Hey Mad Max it's WORDS not worlds.

[mahak 0]

oh.

 

Well, I wont be usurping anyones propriety when I yak about these great balls a fire (sorry, copyright to jerry lee lewis) under my title.

 

Actually, "when words collide" is what got velakovski, tesla, fermi, hancock, cremo, et al, in so much trouble. Science comes in two castagories, accepted (meaning watered down into ten second sound bites), and theoretical, which is the definition of science (hypothesized, tested, retested, concluded, and reported). Its all the collision of words. Meanwhile, here comes planet X.

 

Or Indraloka, either or.

 

hope all is well in bezerkeley. ys, mahak

[theist 1]

 

hope all is well in bezerkeley.

 

Yeah it's ok. Turned into a sleepy little burg. Haven't had a riot in a long time. Fine with me I'm too old now for a good ruckus to move my blood.