The Letter

[Beggar 0]

Prabhupada's astrologer said that he can build a house that everyone can live in. SO... You guys want to drive out those who don't accept Sleeper and Fall-Vada. Actually I do believe things will eventually change and ISKCON will re-emirge under Srila Prabhupada's real spirit. And even if you want to believe the way you do, you can stay too! Just leave it alone and stop driving devotees away with party spirit. And that's for all of us no matter what affiliation. The squabbling should stop; it is not favorable for bhakti or preaching.

[Beggar 0]

 

It is supposed to be about Spitirtual Discussions but most seem to mistake talking about and rehashing old news about religious institutions as Spiritual Discussions.

 

It is something like discussing the Catholic Church endlessly while ignoring the teaching of Christ.

 

I am sorry.

Wisdom from the mouth of Bhakta Alfred E. Newman!

[Beggar 0]

Dear Swarupa Prabhu,

Dandavat, Please accept my humble obeisances, Sri Sri Guru Gauanga jayatau, All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I hope this communication finds you in the best of health so you can proceed in your wonderful service of book distribution down under. All glories to your wonderful service.

Your small well wisher aspiring to serve our ever well wisher,

Beggar das

P.S. please forgive me if I have ever made any personal offenses to you on this forum.

[theist 1]

 

Just leave it alone and stop driving devotees away with party spirit. And that's for all of us no matter what affiliation. The squabbling should stop; it is not favorable for bhakti or preaching.

 

 

Exactly. Posted at the same time. We are tracking together now bro.

[BhaktiK 0]

Srila Prabhupada said some positive and some negative things about Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj.

 

He said other contradictory things too.

 

For instance whether the soul comes from Brahman or Goloka-lila.

 

Or, how many syllables are in the mantra om namo bhagavate vasudevaya?

 

 

SB 2.7.8 purp.

Prince Dhruva was initiated by Narada into chanting the hymn composed of eighteen letters, namely om namo bhagavate vasudevaya,

 

SB 4.8.58 purp.

One can meditate upon offering and chant the twelve-syllable mantra, om namo bhagavate vasudevaya.

 

SB 6.8.7 verse translation:

Then one should chant the mantra composed of twelve syllables [om namo bhagavate vasudevaya].

 

 

When we are confronted with this sort of anomoly we have to use our intelligence and decide which of the statements we choose to believe.

 

Another contradiction:

 

 

purport to Adi-lila Chapter Twelve, Text 8:

 

In the beginning, during the presence of Oḿ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaḿsa Parivrājakācārya Aṣṭottara-śata Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda, all the disciples worked in agreement; but just after his disappearance, they disagreed. One party strictly followed the instructions of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, but another group created their own concoction about executing his desires. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities cooperatively. He did not instruct a particular man to become the next ācārya. But just after his passing away, his leading secretaries made plans, without authority, to occupy the post of ācārya, and they split into two factions over who the next ācārya would be. Consequently, both factions were asāra, or useless, because they had no authority, having disobeyed the order of the spiritual master. Despite the spiritual master's order to form a governing body and execute the missionary activities of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, the two unauthorized factions began litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision.

 

 

This quote from CC contradicts what is written in the letter to Rupanuga.

 

Here in CC, Srila Prabhupada is blaming the secretaries for the break up of the Gaudiya Math. The secretaries he is blaming are people who "wanted to occupy the post of Acarya". Clearly this is a reference to Anantavasudeva and Bhaktivilasa Tirtha.

 

Anantavasudeva, Bhaktivilasa Tirtha and Paramananda Vidyaratna were the secretaries. Srila Sridhar Maharaj was never a secretary to Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. Nor was he ever, at any time, a member of the Gaudiya Math GBC.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj was not present at the meeting of the Gaudiya Math GBC when the GBC members began the break up of the Gaudiya Math. So why should he be blamed for something other people did?

 

Another contradiction:

 

 

After the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha I wanted to organize another organization making Sridhara Maharaja as the head. (SP Conversation, March 17, 1973)

 

If Srila Prabhupada really considered Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj to be the cause of the breakup of the Gaudiya Math, then why did he try to set up another organization with Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj as the head? Why also did he ask Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj to sit beside him on the Vyasasana, the seat that Srila Prabhupada said is reserved for the real Guru, at the opening of the Candrodaya Mandir?

 

Anomolies and contradictions.

 

Intelligent people (sumedhasah) will see what is right and true.

[Guruvani 0]

This campaign to malign Srila Sridhar Maharaja with some old, out-dated letters from Srila Prabhupada is simply negative propaganda by a section of devotees who want to demean and denigrate another section of devotees who have taken siksha and diksha from Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

If anyone chooses not to accept such siksha then they can just avoid.

 

Why do they have to make propaganda on the world wide web against Sridhar Maharaja some 30 years after the fact?

 

At this point it is nothing less than offensive.

 

If you don't choose to take siksha from Srila Sridhar Maharaja or his successor then just don't do it.

 

But, this publicity campaign against Sridhar Maharaja and his followers is just a malicious slander campaign by some misguided, arrogant and narrow-minded bigots.

 

Nobody is canvassing ISKCON devotees to leave and join the camp of Sridhar Maharaja.

 

It is just aparadha of the worst kind for anyone to be making this kind of slander campaign against Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

During the time of Srila Sridhar Maharaja at least the ISKCON leadership had the wisdom to send an emissary to Srila Sridhar Maharaja and admit offenses and ask for his foregiveness.

 

At least the ISKCON GBC had a little intelligence..

These fools making the current slander campaign on the web do not represent the official ISKCON leadership who made their peace with Srila Sridhar Maharaja while they still had the opportunity.

 

These rascals who are publishing this nonsense propaganda of out-dated letters of Srila Prabhupada have no decency and are simply derelicts with no conscience and no good manners.

 

If you don't approve of Sridhar Maharaja then nobody is twisting your arm to accept him.

 

But, they are not satisfied with that.

They have to make mischief and spread poison that simply perpetuates the turmoil that is disturbing Lord Chaitanya's movement.

 

Srila Prabhupada had no monopoly on preaching Krishna consciousness.

 

Mahaprabhu ordered ALL Vaishnavas from India to preach Krishna consciousness all over the world.

 

Nobody has the right to interfere with that - NOT EVEN Srila Prabhupada.

 

Anyone that trys to interfere with Vaishnavas from India who preach Krishna consciousness all over the world are trying to block the mission of Mahaprabhu.

 

There is no other word to describe them except OFFENDERS.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

If you don't approve of Sridhar Maharaja then nobody is twisting your arm to accept him.

To my knowledge, it was never about the numbers (disciples, temples, "lakshmi points") for Srila Sridhar Maharaja. He seemed to be content with what Sri Krishna sent. That was his own transcendental mood, just as Srila Prabhupada's transcendental mood was to go out and canvass.

[Guruvani 0]

The Rupanuga letter was a dated letter that pertains ONLY to the disciples of Srila Prabhupada and even then that letter has been out-dated by more recent statements of Srila Prabhupada.

 

The fact is that there are many disciples of Sridhar Maharaja, Govinda Maharaja and others outside ISKCON all over the world.

 

To publish those personal letters of Srila Prabhupada publicly on international media at this point in time is totally callous, rude and offensive to the many Vaishnavas who are not disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

 

The editor at the sampradayasun is a rascal for publishing that rubbish in 2007 and flagrantly offending so many Vaishnavas who have no connection to ISKCON.

 

These clowns will have to live with their indiscretions for the rest of their life.

They have pissed their own bed and now they must lay in it.

[Vikram Ramsundar 0]

 

The Rupanuga letter was a dated letter that pertains ONLY to the disciples of Srila Prabhupada and even then that letter has been out-dated by more recent statements of Srila Prabhupada.

 

The fact is that there are many disciples of Sridhar Maharaja, Govinda Maharaja and others outside ISKCON all over the world.

 

To publish those personal letters of Srila Prabhupada publicly on international media at this point in time is totally callous, rude and offensive to the many Vaishnavas who are not disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

 

The editor at the sampradayasun is a rascal for publishing that rubbish in 2007 and flagrantly offending so many Vaishnavas who have no connection to ISKCON.

 

These clowns will have to live with their indiscretions for the rest of their life.

They have pissed their own bed and now they must lay in it.

 

As an offender myself, albeit of a different breed than the ones you're chiding here, I bow down to you, Guruvaniji.

[cbrahma 0]

 

 

 

Curious how CBrahma ignored these two public statements made in 1977 3 years after the letter to Rupanuga.

 

They directly clear up any issue about association with Srila Sridhara Maharaja.

 

Hare Krsna

There is nothing to clear up because everything was stated quite clearly. He wanted Sridhara Maharaja to help with the Vedic planetarium. That's a far cry from becoming acarya for ISKCON devotees.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

There is nothing to clear up because everything was stated quite clearly. He wanted Sridhara Maharaja to help with the Vedic planetarium. That's a far cry from becoming acarya for ISKCON devotees.

There are some who say that, because a certain person was asked to carry out the funeral rites of Srila Prabhupada, that person should obviously be the successor acharya.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaja, on the other hand, never made any pretense, nor expressed any desire to become acharya of ISKCON (to my knowledge, as is always implicit).

[Guruvani 0]

 

There are some who say that, because a certain person was asked to carry out the funeral rites of Srila Prabhupada, that person should obviously be the successor acharya.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaja, on the other hand, never made any pretense, nor expressed any desire to become acharya of ISKCON (to my knowledge, as is always implicit).

 

 

 

<table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tbody><tr><td>Bhaktivedanta Swami: Yes, and they are already coming. And in that house I will make arrangements for an elevator so that you won't have to go through the difficulty of walking up and down the stairs. You won't even have to move a step yourself. I'll make arrangements for a car and a lift. My disciples are telling me that they will build a house for me. So, both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I am travelling around, so if you are there, then they can get some guidance.

</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

sounds to me like Srila Prabhupada wanted Srila Sridhar Maharaja to live in the same HOUSE as him in Mayapura.

that would be the house of the acharya.

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

sounds to me like Srila Prabhupada wanted Srila Sridhar Maharaja to live in the same HOUSE as him in Mayapura.

that would be the house of the acharya.

Sure does sound that way, doesn't it? That was Srila Prabhupada's desire. What was Srila Sridhar Maharaja's expressed desire in this regard? What example did he show?

[stonehearted 0]

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that's true. He told me also, "He is such a qualified person. Sridhara Maharaja is one of the finest preachers." I want to take you everywhere. At least at the place we have in Mayapura, people are coming from all over the world. Why don't you come and stay there? What is your objection to staying in Mayapura? If you just agree, then whatever kind of building you want, I will arrange it for you. They are trying to build a house for me, so both of us will stay there. And whenever you want, you can come here [to his Navadwipa math].

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Yes, as long as I am alive to fulfill Prabhupada's desire.

Srila Prabhupada: This is my earnest desire. Since you could not go around the world and preach, at least stay there and people will come to you. I shall make that arrangement. And if you stay there, then it will be very helpful to me also. Sometimes I need to consult with someone but there is no one. There is no one with whom I can consult. I feel this deficiency very greatly.

Devotee: If he stays in Mayapura, then all kinds of people will get to hear from him.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that's right.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Yes, people from all kinds of cultural backgrounds will come there.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, they are already coming. And in that house I will make arrangements for an elevator so that you won't have to go through the difficulty of walking up and down the stairs. You won't even have to move a step yourself. I'll make arrangements for a car and a lift. Jayapataka Maharaja is telling me that he will build a house for me. So both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I am just traveling around, so if you are there, then they can get some guidance. So Maharaja, please-give me the order and I will make all the arrangements for you.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Well, I'll think it over and let you know.

Srila Prabhupada: Let me make that arrangement, Maharaja. That planetarium [the "Temple of Understanding"] also will be built under your direction. My idea is to combine the Indian culture and the American money-the lame man and the blind man policy. I tell them also that this will be very beneficial for the world. Indian culture and varnasrama. Prabhupada's desire was to establish the varnasrama-dharma. So we have to do that: we have to establish our Varnasrama College. Let the people from all over the world come and learn about varnasrama.

Srila Prabhupada seems very clear in his desire that Srila Sridhar Maharaja stay in Mayapur so everyone could have the benefit of his company. It was not just about the planetarium, but much broader, as we see in this excerpt. And Srila Prabhupada was expressing his "earnest desire" that Srila Sridhar Maharaja spend time there so Prabhupada and everyone else could easily consult with Maharaj.

[CCC 0]

Why Sridhar Maharaj defended the post 1977 bogus gbc gurus?

[Guruvani 0]

 

Why Sridhar Maharaj defended the post 1977 bogus gbc gurus?

 

What proof do you have that he did?

Do you have evidence or are you just running on hearsay?

 

Please present your evidence that Sridhar Maharaja defended them.

 

He didn't defend them.

These men went to him and told him that Srila Prabhupada has appointed those 11 men to be acharyas, so Sridhar Maharaja tried to support them because they told him that Srila Prabhupada has appointed them to be successor acharyas.

They lied.

Sridhar Maharaja cannot be blamed for that.

He was simply trying to support what he was told was the final orders of Srila Prabhupada.

[CCC 0]

 

What proof do you have that he did?

Do you have evidence or are you just running on hearsay?

 

Please present your evidence that Sridhar Maharaja defended them.

 

He didn't defend them.

These men went to him and told him that Srila Prabhupada has appointed those 11 men to be acharyas, so Sridhar Maharaja tried to support them because they told him that Srila Prabhupada has appointed them to be successor acharyas.

They lied.

Sridhar Maharaja cannot be blamed for that.

He was simply trying to support what he was told was the final orders of Srila Prabhupada.

Sridhar Maharaj is involved in this, why he didn't ask for a proof of this appointment? and after that what happened with the devotees who wanted to expulse all those bogus gurus? they couldn't thanks the advice of Sridhar Maharaj? am I wrong?

 

What Sridhar Maharaj did after he knows the truth?

 

thanks

 

***I would like to know the truth I am not discussing***

[Guruvani 0]

 

Sridhar Maharaj is involved in this, why he didn't ask for a proof of this appointment? and after that what happened with the devotees who wanted to expulse all those bogus gurus? they couldn't thanks the advice of Sridhar Maharaj? am I wrong?

 

What Sridhar Maharaj did after he knows the truth?

 

thanks

 

***I would like to know the truth I am not discussing***

Here is a transcript of the event when Jayapataka Maharaja, Tamal Krishna Maharaja and some of the top ISKCON men came to see Sridhar Maharaja after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/gbc/78_ssm_gbc.html

 

Jayapataka Maharaja: Maharaja, when our Srila Prabhupada left, then he has given instruction that for initiating and for carrying on the sampradaya there would be eleven-in the beginning, he appointed eleven devotees, his disciples, to be initiating spiritual masters or to accept disciples and in the future that number would also be able to be increased. So we wanted to take your advice on some points as to various details of how these initiating spiritual masters should deal with certain questions. If we could ask questions to you then?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: yes, you may ask.

Jayapataka Maharaja: He has given explicit desires, but he told us that, on other technical points and other matters of philosophy, it there was question we should approach you. He said that during his...when he was very ill, he had appointed eleven ritviks and he said that after he disappears that these ritviks would continue as initiating spiritual masters and that they could be increased later, that would be decided by the GBC or Governing Body Commission.

 

As you can see, Jayapataka Maharaja lied to Sridhar Maharaja.

Jayapataka also confirms that Srila Prabhupada advised his disciples to take guidance on philosophy from Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

[Guruvani 0]

 

 

What Sridhar Maharaj did after he knows the truth?

 

 

Sridhar Maharaja divorced himself from any support of the ISKCON gurus.

That is why the ISKCON gurus turned on him and started the war with Sridhar Maharaja.

 

If Sridhar Maharaja was supporting the ISKCON gurus then why did they wage war against him for so many years?

[mahak 0]

PADAvadi. Thats where. Rebellion taken way past the useful stage. Rampant criticism goes well beyond the scope of that which is needed to be criticized, and the critic becomes full of his own teachings, then criticism of the faultless ensues.

 

And when one lends ears to such nebvulous authority, the loudmouth reporter who is full of bias and makes news rather than report without attachment for his position as reporter, then all these false ideas are presented as truth.

 

This is why one should avoid criticizing and even hearing such criticism. Satswarupa is not our problem, not our philosophy. There is no end of the drivel by those who think everyone is an awful devotee.

[Beggar 0]

??????

[Guruvani 0]

The author of this topic has titled the topic THE LETTER as if the letter is some sort of nail in the coffin of Sridhar Maharaja's followers and some sort of divine proclamation or munumental pronunciation that stands eternally as the damning of Srila Sridhar Maharaja by Srila Prabhupada.

 

THE LETTER is antiquated, outdated, post-dated by different instructions and borderline Vaishnava aparadha.

 

That is why Srila Prabhupada wanted to reconcile the situation with Srila Sridhar Maharaja before his passing and try to avoid exactly the kind of maniacal Vaishnava aparadha that has been keeping ISKCON in a stagnant pond of unholiness and sanctimonious Krishna consciousness since the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Personally, I think Srila Prabhupada should have verified himself with Srila Sridhar Maharaja the stories that Rupanuga was telling in his neophyte confusion before coming out to create such a stink based on the accounts of some American buffoon like Rupanuga.

 

I am sure Srila Prabhupada realized the risky situation he created with that letter and wanted to reconcile the situation before his passing to hopefully avoid the mess that many ISKCON neophytes have created using old, outdated and questionable letters and pronouncements of Srila Prabhupada.

[CCC 0]

 

Sridhar Maharaja divorced himself from any support of the ISKCON gurus.

That is why the ISKCON gurus turned on him and started the war with Sridhar Maharaja.

 

If Sridhar Maharaja was supporting the ISKCON gurus then why did they wage war against him for so many years?

thanks Guruvani, Now is more clear for me. Now my next question is why Narayana Maharaj supported and was friend with some of these eleven, like Tamal Krsna?

 

Did NM know that they were appointed just ritviks and not initiating gurus?

[Shakti-Fan 0]

 

thanks Guruvani, Now is more clear for me. Now my next question is why Narayana Maharaj supported and was friend with some of these eleven, like Tamal Krsna?

Srila Prabhupada personally asked Srila Narayana Maharaja to help his disciples after his entrance into nitya lila. Srila Narayana Maharaja tried to rectify these people. But I can tell you one thing from reliable inside sources - after the "Poison Theory" surfaced, Srila Narayana Maharaja was very careful around TKG. And of course a couple of years later TKG, Satsvarupa Maharaja, Bhurijana some others betrayed him to maintain their positions in ISKCON, just like the same people betrayed Srila Sridhar Maharaja a decade earlier for the exact same reason.

[cbrahma 0]

Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation, February 3, 1976, Mayapur

Prabhupada: "At least historically it be proved. (break) ...cause of envy of my Godbrothers. I was known. Although they knew that Prabhupada liked me very much, because I am grhastha, I was known as paca-grhastha. PACA-GRHASTHA MEANS A ROTTEN GRHASTHA. And now they say, "This grhastha has come out more than us? What is this?" (break) Sridhara Maharaja's chief disciple...?

Bhavananda: Gaura.

Prabhupada: HE ALWAYS USED TO SAY TO SRIDHARA MAHARAJA THAT "YOU ARE SEEING ABHAY BABU AS GRHASTHA, BUT HE IS MORE THAN MANY YOGIS." HE WAS TELLING."

 

 

Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation, June 18, 1976, Toronto

Prabhupada: Daily night. And he was shocked. ONE OF MY GAUDIYA MATHA GODBROTHERS, BIG, HE BECAME THE HEAD OF THIS BHAG BAZAAR GAUDIYA MATHA. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.

Pusta Krsna: New?

Prabhupada: Paramour. And the boy, he was ten years or twelve years old, he could understand: "Who is this man?" So he protested and said, "I shall tell all these things to my father." And he was killed.

Pusta Krsna: The boy was killed?

Prabhupada: By the mother.

Hari-sauri: She murdered him?

Prabhupada: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gaudiya Matha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tirtha Maharaja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupada was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that "I may die." So he made a scrap paper, that "In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gaudiya Matha Institute." That's all. So this Kunja Babu kept this. There are many long histories. SO ONE OF THE SO-CALLED TRUSTEES WAS THIS VASUDEVA. So he died, his end was like this.

Pusta Krsna: His son was killed, isn't it?

Prabhupada: His wife was a regular prostitute, and she killed her child, and on this shock, he took poison and died.

Pusta Krsna: He killed himself, oh.

Prabhupada: Naturally, he became shocked, that "This is my family life--the wife is prostitute and son is killed. What is the value of my life?" This was his spiritual realization. Just see. (laughs) AND HE WAS MADE THE CHIEF, AND ONE OF THE SUPPORTER WAS SRIDHARA MAHARAJA.

Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva Sridhara?

Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.

Pusta Krsna: Am I mis...? You had told me once, I'm not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. YOU SAID THAT VASUDEVA, IT WAS KNOWN FACT THAT HE WAS HOMOSEX?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva.

Prabhupada: HE WAS HOMOSEX AND SEX, EVERYTHING

 

 

Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation, April 22, 1977, Bombay

 

Prabhupada: "He cannot make any comment. These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this Tirtha Maharaja's party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.

Tamala Krsna: Vasudeva.

Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders.

Tamala Krsna: What about Sridhara Maharaja?

Prabhupada: SRIDHARA MAHARAJA BELONGED TO THE BAGH BAZAAR PARTY. And I was living aloof. My Guru Maharaja approved. He said, "It is better that he is aloof from them."

Tamala Krsna: He could understand that his disciples were not...

Prabhupada: No, he was very sorry. AT THE LAST STAGE HE WAS DISGUSTED."