cbrahma

Of course I believe God is active in 'things'. I also believe that if his activity covers everything, then the spectre of the problem of evil rears its head. (The favorite argument of atheists.) So individual freedom must be admitted. I will defend my rights. Stand up for myself and the innocent, not brush it off as 'karma', which is so nebulous and complicated a web as to tell us absolutely nothing. I derive no peace or tranquility from it. The world is a dangerous. The idea is to become liberated, to transcend karma, not meditate on how everything that happens is supposed to.

Please don't speculate about my references. Child rape is an example my ethical philosophy professor usesd to test the boundaries of a theory. If justice is always served then there's no reason for policemen, courts of law or even prisons. There are no innocent victims. Karma is inscrutable and cannot be invoked for either consolation or regret. Suffice that everything comes out in the wash. Suffice that we have no idea how. But we must hold people accountable for their actions and not be fatalistic. It was just my karma that so-and-so punched me in face for no apparent reason. So I will just be everybody's passive victim. Dangerous conclusion.

Because claiming that everything is justified by karma - justifies abominations like child rape - and making God somehow responsible (in the background). It explains nothing because it explains everything and zero inspiration.

Which present Christians? If they don't, they're departing radically from mainstream tradition.

Paramatma is in everybody's heart - that doesn't explain the amazing simila rities. Historically Greek culture had many Eastern influences.

So much for the moral philosophy of the West. No Westerner from say the early Church fathers to the present believed in reincarnation, nor did they consider the idea of accountability requiring it. Now the Greeks did believe in it, which if my history is right is where the Judao-Christians theologians got the idea of an immortal soul. Plato had to have been exposed to Vedic teachings - considering his proximity to India.

Is the flowery honorific language an Indian thing? It doesn't fly in the West but maybe that kind of hype goes down with Indians.

True that's just basic accountability. Not Krsna in the background. Nor does it imply reincarnation- inexplicable things in this life carried over from previous lives.

Well no Christian thinks Jesus is behind the scenes controlling everything. Karma doesn't spill over from life to life - Christians don't believe in reincarnation.

So brutal child rape - is just Krsna in the background. The parent must relinquish the right to get angry.

I was drinking, eating non-vegetarian and having illicit sex regularily. I chanted four rounds every day without fail. The drinking and non-vegetarian stopped. Double to eight rounds - the illicit sex stopped. Chanted sixteen rounds and went every day to the morning program - and I was able to maintain.

Why is everybody continuing to discuss this? I thought we were duly chastized for scandal-monging by the more righteous-don't-find-fault prabhus.

How can a devotee not feel that Krsna is the very source of love? If one doesn't know this, at least intellectually, what is the motivation for following the bhakti-marga? Isn't the rasa of separation, or should I say , especially the rasa of separation predicated on the realization that Krsna is the Supreme Lover? And to answer. Yes I feel that Krsna is more kind, more loving than neophytes could possibly make him out to be, with their exclusive intricate cage of rules and regulations by which they think he can be captured. One thing is certain. Krsna is more infinitely intent on rescuing me from this ocean of material suffering that I am.

Let me quote myself from a previous post on this thread: "I don't busy myself with devotees faults or stumblings until they start to affect the lives of others and Rameswara misled literally hundreds of devotees, most of which have left KC. My biggest concern is how quickly devotees with some past credentials are glamorized and idealized beyond reason and reality. 'Now don't be a fault-finder' is the old saw that keeps the spin factory of guru-glitter going. I don't dare say anthing. Never breathed how I found him ridiculous, a saffron show queen being worshipped. Ah but the Emperor said I in my childish candor is... That's how the guru phenomenon manages to keep going. They run the celeb circuit and are lionized like stars. And then one day, they fall down and these groupies are all angry and disillusioned. I was at New Dwarka when Rameswara was the acting acarya. I was never impressed, never taken up by the hype. So when he fell down, I wasn't too surprised. I had just seen him strutting around town in his sanyassi robes and trindunda going to clothing stores and strip malls. I chuckled then as I chuckle now when I hear of his sheepish return." Seeing things as they are is not tantamount to hatred - that's a sappy cliche. In fact that vision is essential on the spiritual path - because it's not just sentimentality.

I'm hardly attracted to ISKCON corruption or I'd get initiated by some of the more questionable gurus (who will remain nameless) like so many thousands have. Which is worse, exposing corruption to prevent it from reoccuring or covering up under the rubric of aparadha and letting it fester? Silence is consent.

There is no doubt that there were child molestations and murders committed in New Vrndavana. There certainly were is New Dwaraka. The victims and their parents have attested to it. Read the articles on the hare-krishna.org news blog on that topic. So who committed them and how did the authorities not know about it? Devotees had to escape with their lives from that community because the surveillance was so tight. This means that the New Vrndavana leaders, Kirtananda, Radanatha didn't know. If you believe that, there's some nice Florida property you might be interested in.

What is sahajya? Cheap imitation right? So one doesn't have to dress like a gopi and have illicit sex. One can dress like a Vaisnava, sport a Sanskrit name be approved by all the authorities by proper protocol and think one has arrived. that's all it takes. But in sanatana dharma the essential thing is the heart. No amount of external 'qualifications' can accomplish that - only the sincere chanting of the mahamantra.

Krsna has sent me a spiritual master - his name is Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

It's as much the fault of the 'star-f__ers' as the idol-guru for his inability to deal..The majority have left. The majority have felt cheated - and justifiably.

Maybe this is the time for quiet returns. So many older devotees seem to be showing up these days. I'm not sure that its because they are too old to enjoy. Enjoyment is always an illusion. But Rameswara had so much intimate association with Srila Prabhupada, did so much for him that has to count for something, a lot in fact. I don't busy myself with devotees faults or stumblings until they start to affect the lives of others and Rameswara misled literally hundreds of devotees, most of which have left KC. My biggest concern is how quickly devotees with some past credentials are glamorized and idealized beyond reason and reality. 'Now don't be a fault-finder' is the old saw that keeps the spin factory of guru-glitter going. I don't dare say anthing. Never breathed how I found him ridiculous, a saffron show queen being worshipped. Ah but the Emperor said I in my childish candor is... That's how the guru phenomenon manages to keep going. They run the celeb circuit and are lionized like stars. And then one day, they fall down and these groupies are all angry and disillusioned. I was at New Dwarka when Rameswara was the acting acarya. I was never impressed, never taken up by the hype. So when he fell down, I wasn't too surprised. I had just seen him strutting around town in his sanyassi robes and trindunda going to clothing stores and strip malls. I chuckled then as I chuckle now when I hear of his sheepish return.

Your aptitude for deliberate misconstruction is uncanny. I have absolutely no desire to be initiated by these phonies. But at least i've learned the facts first hand.

I didn't claim to be a fixed up devotee. I claimed to be following a sadhanna. It is the truth and as verifiable as your boasting. But of course you need that 'ad hominem' since your self-glorification didnt' impress.

I don't consider them glories. Your investigations are moot, since I have returned to my sadhana for months now. I don't need to embellish or enumerate my services. That's your strategy. I explained the context in which I did so. Your twisting and poking prove nothing.

You claimed your PAST accomplishments as establishing some kind of entitlement to make statements about PRESENT ISKCON. As far as your twisting my statements to be boasting the context was a response to somebody's speculation that I don't know anything about ISKCON. I wasn't interested in making competitive statements. Apples and oranges.

Past service is valuable when it is done sincerely and with devotion - not for fame and adoration -which is the boasting tone I heard.