cbrahma

It takes more posts than should be necessary to keep on logical track because of the introduction of deliberate misinterpretations. Your sweeiping statement is wishful 'ad hominem'

Well if I'm defeated then so are most devotees in the Western world who believe this. Big Deal. You are desparate indeed. It's hardly a matter of personal integrity. I can google too. I found the VNN paper and the supposed conversation doesn't come from Folio This is the link from which the quote was picked up http://www.vnn.org/world/9802/06-1580/index.html Here's another quote http://www.iskcon.com/icj/3_1/kripamoya.html So which is authoritative?

Being a sadhu and a completely transcendental guru are different. You are conflating wisdom with total realization. Somebody may be wise . an authority on several topics, but not a self-effulgent acarya.

I got what Mr Guest is saying. I need support for that allegation. I have never said association is not important.

Knowledge doesn't have to make one angry.

Where do you get lack of integrity from? Because I agree with most of the devotees who say that Prabhupada said it? You have one post where somebody says Prabudpada didn't say it. There is no inconsistency just because I'm tired of splitting hairs. Either way it's a characterization of myself that you need. Ad hominem being your primary strategy.

Since you are an authority on my views, what am I changing my view from? Mr anonymous Guest.

It's rude to point out important correlations? Hmmm. Beside I didnt' realize you were proposing a cure. Some people might consider the omission of guru 'rude'. Negative depends on your belief system.

What difference does it make who starts the thread then? You'll come and post your self-righteous admonitions as well. Your point must be that there should be a moratorium on the topic althogether.

It is a big deal in connection with the matter of gaudiya vaisnavism which this thread quotes. It is hardly off topic. If you're so disgruntled by the connection why don't you start a thread.

I made no contigency on accepting Prabhupada other than his qualifications. Once we accept him as his disciples have, then we should be concerned about his mission (the continuation of his ISKCON mission) You bring out his rejection of the Gaudiya Math as analogous.The conclusion that is laughable is yours for making this leap of logic.

that logic right Tweedledum?

You were comparing ISKCON to the Gaudiya Math, making a point that disciples should forget ISKCON as Prabhupada left the Math. That analogy is faulty.

Not speculation. A logical consequence.

It is hardly irrelevant or useless. The guru thing is actually a big deal. It's absence from this thread is noteworthy. Your undue emphasis on my having mentioned it once is useless.

I have to have anarthas to be satisfied with Prabhupada? What a pronouncement!

Mangoes and rotten apples. Prabhupada was jagat guru and was given instruction to spread the mission to the West. What is laughable is comparing him and his mission to his dis-enfranchised disciples as though they were on an equal level.

So far the only personality in my experience that meets the criteria is Prabhupada. Now that I've found the gold, why do I need to keep searching?

Anybody who accepts Prabhupada as jagat guru should be concerned that his ISKCON has been usurped. Wanting to take it back, is hardly a political motive, simply because Prabhupada's mission has been turned into a political fiasco. And yes 'straightening ourselves out' is a noble goal, but so is developing fitting society which we can associate. Bhakti yoga is a community endeavor, not a solitary journey.

You can hide your head in the sand if you like, but the whole guru thing is not 'other' stuff. And it's not just specific to ISKCON. The Indian invasion into Western culture is a catalogue of guru scandals. The quotes brought to this thread are surprising in that they manage to side step that usually ubiquitous requirement.

Did I say ISKCON? There are many instances of the same outside of that organization.

What nobody running my life telling me how to think from a vyasasan? Can it be that simple? Naaahhh. Where's the opportunity for all that chastising and self torture which is so good for the soul?

Corrupt gurus give offense. I chant anyways.

There are more important places to put my energy at this point.

I don't have the vedabase on this computer. Suffice it to say this is not a typical "Prabhupada said". There are so many high level devotees in and outside of ISKCON who believe it. In other words it is not anecdotal. Especially when the only counter is one Prabupada did not say. It is grasping at straws and proves nothing.