cbrahma

That objection is easily countered. There are number of tapes of Prabupada chanting.

How dare you speak so patronizingly of such a transcendental personality. What compromise? Prabhupada was not a compromiser. He understood , lived and breathed bhakti. In spite of your boasted religious credentials , your second initation - re-initiation your lack of basic spiritual understanding is the best argument against the necessity of such religious credentials.

Mantra is REAL. So are the spiritual masters teachings, which include the maha mantra. In fact as I mentioned before the whole universe is a sound vibration. The hearing is not just the hearing of the mantra - it is the hearing of the teachings of the Spiritual Master. You can't possibly be serious that reading the Gita -(song of God) is not sravanam. Krsna, the spiritual master speaks through it. Reception of vani must be sravanam because it is the essence of diksa. You apparently don't know that either.

Exactly and as such you have confused the external (religiosity) with the potency (sakti).

Please - the vani vibrates in many forms - the whole universe is made of sound vibration - this is fundamental and you haven't even learned that.

I was serious. And your egotistic mood , tells me exactly where your coming from spiritually, but let that pass. But then you contradict yourself.

So reception by reading Prabhupada's books should be valid. Srvanam kirtanam.

So much for book distribution.

Your ingenuous questioning is so cool. You innocently cut right to the chase. I know you're not asking me, but logically if formal diksa is a requirement, the results of book distribution are null and void unless the reader gets himself/herself a formal initiating guru.

Is that the Kulapavana srutis? The Yuga-dharma, the chanting of the maha-mantra is meant to spread religious Hinduism all over the world? That's not how it's preached at all. If the MahaMantra has no effect unless there is formal initiation, then the HariNama parties are wasting their time. Uninitated bhaktas are also wasting there time chanting... however... the Vedas also say - The religious rationalizations on this forum crack me up. LOL

Where does it say that in the Gita.

If formal diksa is a requirement what constitutes formal diksa for a Christian? I know the answer - I just want to know if you do.

He called George Harrison his uninitiated disciple. Be that as it may, he said what he said-- his formal disciples are another matter. The stress is on knowledge - whose formal guru you have is not as important as the siksa. The Gita doesn't mention diksa. Why is this important - is it status - a credential that one can boast about - a gateway to God? It all smacks of mundane religiosity and I want none of it. Institutional control - absolute power of one human over another - look at the history of despotism in all of its varieties - an ugly picture indeed. But by all means - go for it.

According to a leading Gaudiya Vaisnava guru HDG Srila Prabhupada

How is Jesus giving diksa and what is it required for?

Right. An intrigue of subtleties filtered through your own mood and agendas from which you speculate everthing - my philosophy , political alliances, emotional traumas etc... (the stench of all that horsepucky is killing me) Why not just call the forum Excuses, Rationalizations and Political Campaigns.

Since we share in the Divine Nature, we too, as jiva-tattva, are 'ajam' - unborn.

That is a political statement because of its categorical stance against Prabhupada's disciples as a whole. The same could be said of the GM disciples. The conclusion of the Vedas, of the Bhagavad Gita is not contingent on the precise theology of our origin other than being a part and parcel of the Godhead, sat-cit-ananda.

Mindlessness? Sounds Buddhist. Pure negation,or mere negation leaves us literally with zero - impersonal samadhi.

What kind of answer is this?

Actually the Gaudiya Vaisnavas have been called 'fundamentalists' by Indologists. What is fundamentalism anyways? It's a literal-mindedness, taking scripture literally, without a view to interpretation. Gosh doesn' t that sound familiar, taking Bhagavad Gita As it Is.

Nevertheless an institution was built on the other requirement of book sales as the 'highest service'.

this is a political rather than philosophical debate - the battle lines are drawn between ISKCON and the Gaudiya Math (what's left of it). In reality it is Prabhupada vs the GM disciples and gurus on a topic which has very little practical consequence to anybody's spiritual life.

You don't know my 'mood', whatever that means. You project it through cyber-space because you have no philosophical alternative. But I'm glad.