cbrahma

Nice apharada there o advanced brahamana. That could describe the many advanced Prabhupada disciples, which BTW Prabhupada saw fit to initiate anyways. Puffed up religionists are sooooo funny.

Elementary logic lesson. An 'is' is not an 'ought'. He practiced according to time and circumstance. His vani however is eternal.

Fools never fail to betray themselves when they open their mouths.

HUH??? Where did that come from?

. Right. And his vani counts for nothing, teachings BTW which I never tire of quoting and you never tire ignoring. Towards the end he regularly initiated by ritvik. Is that his essential teaching? Your logic is badly in need of repair. You obviously missed the part where he said not all disciples had to be brahmincally initiated, simply because that doesn't give you the exclusive prestige you hanker for

Of course you are the sadhus LOL. Especially if you say so yourselves. Prabhupada's clear instructions have no such value of course. Puffed up religionists are sooooo funny. You seriously need to get over yourself but the chances of that, now that you've had your fire sacrifice are slim to none.

I have taken great pains to distinguish the mantras not confuse them. Is this illogic a usual thing with you? Here you go again speaking on the behalf of all Vaisnavas everywhere. I can believe your monumental claims to absolute knowledge or Prabhupada. Tough call.

Right. And your spiritual understanding which contradicts essential teachings of Srila Prabhupad which you have so far side-stepped and ignored, is really impressive.

I never mentioned paper. Whether you like it or not. Whether your ego wants to puff itself up on that external event or not - a formality is a formality.

Prabhupada gave example how to chant japa. No silent mental 'chanting'. BTW You are wrong. As wrong as anybody who professes to be a spiritually advanced specially anointed individual can be.

Nobody is ready to be cheated unless that person is a fool or a cheater himself. It just isn't worth the gamble with the track record of self-proclaimed gurus and disciples.

Why does this 'mental' chanting not apply to the Maha Mantra? Never have I heard that it is sufficient to simply think the Maha Mantra. Are you saying that Gayatri is at a higher platform than the Maha Mantra? So many chanters of this Gayatri have fallen down . There are lists of examples in the history of ISKCON and the Gaudiya Math. In fact the fall down of brahmanas was a big problem in ISKCON, so much so that

NONSENSE. A CEREMONY IS A FORMALITY BY DEFINITION. You lack spritual understanding. This is the result of your special status is it?

No the mantra is a sound vibration that can be said without a whispering into somebody's ear and a fire sacrifice. You are switching rails here. The point of contention is not the mantra - but the formal ritual in which the mantra is given with all the bells and whistles.

It is what the ceremony represents that is important - the commitment of the disciple to follow the instructions of the spiritual master. How many disciples have had the ceremony and subsequently wreaked havoc throughout ISKCON with their criminal behavior? Yes a formality is a formality pure and simple. You cling to the form rather than the substance because you are a religionist. You need the false prestige - of "I am initiated. You are not. I have a higher level of realization.". How cheap is that.

So one can have a spiritual master and not be initiated, satisfying the requirement given in the Gita. Oh come on now o learned and initiated sage- Where in the Vedas - and especially in the teachings of Lord Caitanya does it say one cannot achieve love of god without Gayatri? The masses? Somebody who chants the presribed rounds and follows the regulative principles - somebody who is a disciple but not initiated is one the masses? How long must you resist the truth coming from the mouth of the bona fide spiritual master? You obviously have no real spiritual understanding of the process of bhakti or you would not tie it necessarily to a formal religious system. Bhaktivinode Thakur and his disciples did not.

Part of one? What is that supposed to mean? You beg the question by claiming that unless there is a formal ceremony there is no initiation. There are Prabhuapda disciples who never saw Prabhupada personally but who were initiated by ritvik. There is no mystery here. Its not like there is an electric current that passes, an idea that Prabhupada made fun of, on more than one occasion. The same guru whose picture you have provided has confirmed this idea that --- Most Prabhupda disciples that I've met don't play the religious game. They don't lord over their diksa like there's some special 'zap' that happened that I can't possibly understand and that automatically guarantees that they are 'in the know'. That's what the Maharishis and bogi yogis do.

You were talking about whispers. I have attended diksas where there is no such thing. Prabhupada sometimes did it by tape. In fact there doesn't even have to be a fire sacrifice. According to you those Prabhupada disciples who had hari-nama initiation were not really Prabhupada's disicples. Also under this concept unless one receives Gayatri, one really will not be able to be self-realized and attain bhakti. If this is a Gaudiya-Vaisnava idea, then Lord Caitanya's mission is doomed because there is no point in spreading the Holy Name to every town and village unless all the residents have been formally initiated.

There is no speculation required. You don't mystify me with your 'I'm initiated so I have the secret knowledge' - that's called the Emperor's clothes. I've supported everything I've said with facts and quotes from the acaryas. The nature of guru-tattva only requires a certain modicum of intelligence and the right senior authorities which you ain't. What part of 'my touch is simply a formality' do you not understand. No matter how a religionist would like to have it - the false prestige of formal diksa just doesn't make the grade . Fire sacrifice or no fire sacrifice, whisper or no whisper.

Spare me your esoteric gambit. The formality has no potency in itself. It is what is symbolizes that matters, the underlying relationship between the guru and the disciple which by your religionist standards Prabhupada was also mocking.

One wonders how the jiva spiritual body (svarupa) can be eternal if they don't originate in the spiritual world. There must be attained afterwards. Of course that isn't what the sastras say about the svarupa.

Oh no! So many Prabhupada disciples didn't get the whisper. In fact some of them were initiated by proxy (ritvik). I guess the magic connection didn't take.

I can't possibly be a kid. I had Prabhupada darsana.

There are many non-Iskcon people such as myself who know that he was a devotee.