Beggar

A careful analysis of the qualities of the residents of the spiritual world clearly indicates that they could never desire (or choose) to leave there. Further, we find innumerable references in sastra that Krsna is very favorably disposed to his pure devotees in the spiritual world, carefully protects them, is completely controlled by them and thus would certainly not desire nor make the arrangement that they could so easily fall from his perfect abode: Devotees are Most Dear to the Lord He comes under the control of His devotees. (Bhag. 10.9.19, text) …certainly conquer Your Lordship. (Bhag. 10.14.3, text) I am completely under the control of My devotees. (Bhag. 9.4.63, text) The pure devotees . . . bring Me under their full control. (Bhag. 9.4.66, text) The pure devotee is always within the core of My heart. (Bhag. 9.4.68, text) How can I give up such devotees at any time? (Bhag. 9.4.65, text) Additional similar references are given on our web site at the following URL: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva_3.html 7- All examples of apparent falldowns of nitya-parsadas from the eternal lila of the Lord cited by proponents of the "fall theory" are not actual falldowns. Tulasi is not an ordinary living entity. It is mentioned many times in sastra and in Srila Prabhupada's purports (pertinent quotes included within this presentation) that the descent of the Lord's nitya-parsadas is for the purpose of His lila and is not in the same category as the appearance of the nitya-baddha living entities. Nor is the descent of Tulasi an example of a resident of the spiritual world becoming envious of Krsna. It is a pastime under the influence of yogamaya not maha-maya. The example of Kala Krsnadasa is inappropriate since he was already in the material world. He is not mentioned in Gaura-Gannodesa-dipika as being Krsna parsada. Furthermore, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not allow him to fall away but protected him and kept him with Him for a year. Kala Krsnadasa was then given the shelter of Nityananda Prabhu and the nectarean service of informing Mother Saci and the residents of Navadvipa of the Lords South Indian tour in great detail. Other so-called examples of falldown from spiritual positions, that have been cited, are in each case a special arrangement by the Lord—spiritually situated devotees were simply taking part in the Lord's transcendental lila. Citraketu did not fall into material life. It is clear from his prayers to the Lord (as Vrtrasura) that he was still very much an exalted devotee, that his bhakti was not covered, and commentators have explained that this [apparent falldown] was a special favor of the Lord for it increased his attachment to the Lord. Srila Prabhupada explains very clearly that Jaya and Vijaya's fall was a special arrangement of the Lord for His lila (Bhag. 3.16.26-27, purp.). Jiva Gosvami writes in Priti-sandarbha, 7, that when Jaya and Vijaya became demons, within they knew themselves and kept their spiritual form. The fall of Bharata Maharaja was also special as he was protected by the Lord. Even in the body of a deer and later as an apparently incoherent Jada Bharat he remembered his past experiences and Krsna consciousness and perfected himself in the next life. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, in this regard, writes in his commentary on Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.33, Even if they fall, they become more attached to You, just as when King Citraketu, Bharata Maharaja and King Indradyumna had a so-called fall down. In their fallen forms, such as Vrtrasura [previously King Citraketu], their love multiplied hundreds of times. Therefore, the fall of a devotee causes his love to increase. In Srimad-Bhagavatam, text 10.2.33, it is stated that devotees do not fall like non-devotees for the Lord protects them. In the purport Srila Prabhupada writes, In history there are many instances of devotees like Citraketu, Indradyumna and Maharaja Bharata who circumstantially fell down but were still protected. Maharaja Bharata, for example, because of his attachment to a deer, thought of the deer at the time of death, and therefore in his next life he became a deer ( yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante kalevaram ). Because of protection by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, however, the deer remembered his relationship with the Lord and next took birth in a good brahminical family and performed devotional service ( sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate ). Similarly, Citraketu fell down and became a demon, Vrtrasura, but he too was protected. 8- The theory that one can become illusioned and fall introduces imperfection in the [infallible] spiritual world—this is Mayavada philosophy. It derides the concept of the Lord's perfect abode. It is stated explicitly that the spiritual world is a manifestation of the Lord's internal pleasure potency, svarupa-sakti, the Lord's most powerful potency. [cf section 6f] Srila Prabhupada states, "It is a most ludicrous argument to say that the Supreme Lord is overpowered by His own material energy." (Bhag. 3.7.9, purp.) This is the conception of the impersonalists who think that a portion of the Lord's svarupa sakti, the Lord's most powerful sakti, can be covered by maya—that maya can cover brahman. Actually, the fall theory is worse than Mayavada for it suggests that not only brahman but Parabrahman may be covered by maya. It is stated in Bhag. 2.5.13 that maya never appears in front of the Lord, therefore it is apparent that those who are situated on the front side of the Lord, the pure devotees, are never effected by maya. Are we to suggest that the Lord's internal potency is fallible and imperfect? Many references attest to the invincibility of the Lord's internal potency. That the superior energy of the Lord (svarupa-sakti ) can be overwhelmed by the inferior energy of the Lord (maya-sakti ) is not supported anywhere by sastra or by any acaryas. Yet, even disregarding the direct statement of the Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.10, that maya cannot enter the spiritual world, this theory [that all jivas in the material world come by falldown from the spiritual world] requires that the eternal associates of Krsna be influenced by maya while in the spiritual world, in order for them to become illusioned. For "the living entity cannot be forgetful of his real identity unless influenced by the avidya potency." (Bhag. 3.7.5, purp.) Certainly it is considered an imperfection of the spiritual world that one firmly situated under the personal protection of the divine internal potency of the Lord and ecstatically engaged in the Lord's loving transcendental service in "the highest perfectional stage of living conditions," (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport), can fall from that to repeated hellish and degraded lives of birth and death. Are we to accept that uncountable formerly self-realized living entities, billions is just an acre of countryside, all became envious and fell from the bliss of the Lord's personal association? Perhaps Vaikuntha should then be named Sakuntha, the abode of anxiety. <dir> evam vadanti rajarsersayah ke ca nanvitahyat sva-vaco virudhyetanunam te na smaranty uta Such is the account given by some sages, O wise King, but those who speak in this illogical way are contradicting themselves, having forgotten their own previous statements. (Bhag. 10.77.30, text) </dir> Conclusion: It is our contention that the actual sastric truth regarding the jiva's original positon as presented herein and which is thoroughly supported by all our acaryas, has eluded many devotees due to their offenses to highly situated Vaisnavas. A chronology of events surrounding the siksa of Srila B. R. Sridhara Maharaja and the many offenses committed against His Holiness has been documented in the book Our Affectionate Guardians, available online at: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/affection_unabridged/index.html A sastric reference to the anartha called tattva-vibrahma is given by Bhaktivinode Thakura in his Bhajana-rahasya, wherein it is stated that one remains in illusion about different tattva's, such as jiva-tattva, guru-tattva, vaisnava-tattva, and rasa-tattva due to one's offenses etc. Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura in his Madhurya Kadambini quotes a verse from Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu regarding the offenses which lead to a material conception of spiritual topics. The effect of one's offenses is that one developes the same qualities which they criticize of another. We feel strongly that the misunderstanding of this subject belies a fundamental lack of comprehension of the essential substance of Krsna consciousness. A lengthier presentation with many additional references is available on our Web Site: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva.html The only subject not covered in this paper, which is however available in our longer Web presentation, is the topic of "Preaching is not always siddhanta:" http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva_8.html We suggest than an example of preaching something other than siddhanta (cf. Bg. 15.6: "Once going there, one never returns.") is shown in the following conversation, which directly contradicts Bg. 15.6: Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: Fall down? Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go." (Conversation, Los Angeles, May 13, 1973) Please address correspondence to: Swami B B Vishnu Sri Narasingha Chaitanya Matha P. O. Box 21, Doddagosai Ghatt Sri Rangapatna, Karnataka 571 438 INDIA Phone: (08236-252-627) Email: Swami B B Vishnu or gosai at gosai dot com Tattva articles & books: http://www.gosai.com/tattva/ Swami Vishnu Articles: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/index.html Jiva Index: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva.html This URL: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva-tattva.html Home: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/

6d- References that residents of the spiritual world are pure devotees In the spiritual sky there are spiritual planets known as Vaikunthas, which are the residence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees. (Bhag. 3.15.13, text.) ... Vaikuntha planets, in each of which the Supreme Personality of Godhead... enjoys Himself in the association of unlimited numbers of pure devotee associates. (Bhag. 2.2.31, purp.) The inhabitants of Vaikuntha... are pure devotees. (Bhag. 3.15.17, purp.) 6e- References that pure devotees (such as the residents of the spiritual world) have no personal desires (for sense gratification). In the Vaikuntha planets all the residents are similar in form to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. thay all engage in devotional service to the Lord without desires for sense gratification. (Bhag. 3.15.14, text) In Vaikunthaloka there is no occupation but the service of the Lord, and this service is not rendered with a purpose. Although every service has a particular result, the devotees never aspire for the fulfillment of their own desires; their desires are fulfilled by rendering transcendental loving service to the Lord. (Bhag. 3.15.14, purport) ... Such transcendental birds stop their own singing simply to hear the glories of the Lord. (Bhag. 3.15.18, text) This verse reveals the absolute nature of Vaikuntha. There is no difference between the birds there and the human residents... The special feature of Vaikunthaloka is that there is no question of sense gratification. (Bhag. 3.15.18, purp.) The inhabitants of Vaikuntha... although crowded by their consorts... cannot be stimulated to passion. (Bhag. 3.15.20, text) The men are so absorbed in Krsna consciousness that the beautiful bodies of the women cannot attract them... the residents of Vaikuntha have a better standard of pleasure, so there is no need of sex pleasure. (Bhag. 3.15.20, purp.) A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in any circumstance. He will not give up his shelter at the lotus feet of the Lord for a single moment-indeed, not for half a moment-even in exchange of the benediction of ruling and enjoying the opulence of the entire universe. (Bhag. 11.2.53, text) Desireless means... to be conscious of one's actual position and thus desire satisfaction only [of] the Supreme Lord. Srila Jiva Gosvami has explained this desirelessness as bhajaniya-parama-purusa-sukha-matra-sva-sukhatvam in his Sandarbha. This means that one should feel happy only by experiencing the happiness of the Supreme Lord. ... the spirit of akamah [desirelessness] is fully exhibited in the spiritual world. (Bhag. 2.3.10, purport). The inhabitants of Vaikuntha... are pure devotees. They consider glorification of the Lord more important than their own sense gratification. In the Vaikuntha planets there is no question of sense gratification... The inhabitants of Vaikuntha give first preference to the service of the Lord, not their own sense gratification. Serving the Lord in transcendental love yields such transcendental pleasure that, in comparison, sense gratification is counted as insignificant. (Bhag. 3.15.17, purp.) In the spiritual world one has no desire other than to please the senses of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Cc. Madhya 19.155, purp.) Everyone tried to satisfy Krsna–even the cows, the flowers, the fruits, and the water of Vrndavana. This is because everything in Vrndavana is spiritual; nothing is material. (Teachings of Queen Kunti, Chapter 25, Unalloyed Devotion) The Vrndavana-lila of Krsna is the perfect presentation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's simply enjoying. And all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, the gopis, the cowherd boys, Maharaja Nanda, Yasoda, everyone is simply anxious how to make Krsna happy. They have no other business. The inhabitants of Vrndavana has no other business than to satisfy Krsna, and Krsna has no other business. Yasoda-nandana brajajana-rajana. He's acting as the little son of Yasoda, and His only business is how to please the inhabitants of Vrndavana. [710217CC.GOR] Rupa Goswami has given us the definition of pure devotional service as being anyabhilasita-sunyam, or without desires other than service to please Krsna. Jiva Goswami comments that the word used here is anyabhilasita which means "the habit of acting under extraneous desires which are semi-natural with the person involved." So uttama-bhakti means not only "absence of extraneous desires," but also the complete absence of the very nature from which such extraneous desires arise. Bhaktivinode Thakura corroborates this in his booklet "Bhakti-tattva-viveka " in his analysis of bhakti-abasa. Therein he states that in the [nitya-mukta ] liberated state "the jiva remains free from any material designation and hence within him there is no opportunity for the marginal characteristics of bhakti to exist." Additionally, Visvanatha Cakravartipada in his Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu has defined the svarupa-laksana (intrinsic characteristic) of uttama-bhakti [as possessed by the residents of the spiritual world] as involving activities favorable to Sri Krsna [anukulyena krsnanusilanam ] and the tatastha-laksana (extrinsic characteristic) of uttama-bhakti is described in the first line of the same verse, anyabhilasita-sunyam: uttama bhakti is devoid of all desires other than to please Sri Krsna. References to Pure devotion Pure devotee means he has no other desire, no material desire. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero. 740325BG.BOM Pure devotee of Krsna. They have no other desire. Anyabhilasita-sunyam. They have no other desire. 740926SB.CAL What is that pure devotee? Anyabhilasita-sunyam... This is pure devotion: no other desire... 741019SB.MAY Anyabhilasita-sunyam. Anya. Anya means other than Krsna's service. They have made all, everything zero. We don't want all these things. We simply want to serve Krsna. 720524SB.LA What is that pure devotional service? anyabhilasita-sunyam ... No other desire than to please Krsna.710727SB.NY Who is a pure devotee? anyabhilasita-sunyam ... Pure devotion is anukulyena krsnanu-silanam: simply take to such work and activities which will favorably dispose Krsna. 710410LE.BOM Anya-bhilasa. Anya means "other than Krsna." Anyabhilasita-sunyam, being completely freed from any other desires 740111mw.la 6f- The residents of the spiritual world are all suddha-sattva/cinmaya-rasa Which is directly under the protection of My spiritual energy of unadulterated bliss. That is the ultimate perfectional goal of the living entity. (Bhag. 3.27.28-29, text) The Lord's abode, name, fame, entourage, etc., are of the same transcendental quality, and how this transcendental quality differs from the material world is explained herewith in this verse. (Bhag. 2.2.17, purp.) Nitya-mukta means they never come in this material world... They are in the spiritual form, ananda-cinmaya-rasa, enjoying always spiritual bliss in the association of Krsna. (Bhag. June 19, 1972, Los Angeles) In Bhagavat-sandarbha text 75-78, Sri Jiva describes that the Lord's associates have transcendental bodies, possess qualities identical to those of the Lord, they are beyond the influence of time, are all suddha-sattva in nature, eternal, immutable... etc The Lord and His devotees reside in the Vaikuntha planets, and they are of the same transcendental quality, namely, suddha-sattva, the mode of pure goodness. (Bhag. 3.15.15, purp.) In the spiritual sky... suddha-sattva, which is a pure spiritual energy that sustains all the Vaikuntha planets with the full opulences of knowledge, wealth, prowess, etc. (Cc. Adi-lila 5.41) Everything in the Goloka Vrndavana planet is a spiritual expansion of sac-cid-ananda. Everyone there is of the same potency– ananda-cinmaya-rasa. The relationship between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His servitor is cinmaya-rasa. Krsna and His entourage and paraphernalia are of the same cinmaya potency. (Cc. Madhya-lila 19.154, purp.) References describing Suddha-sattva ... description of the spiritual world... Suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means simply goodness, pure goodness, without any tinge of passion and ignorance... And in pure goodness we can understand our constitutional position: we can understand what is God, what is creation, everything. (661217CC.NY) Spiritual happiness is suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means pure goodness. In the material world there are three stages: ignorance, passion and goodness. The goodness platform is very nice in the material world, but there is another platform, which is called suddha-sattva. Sattvam visuddham, visuddham vasudeva-sabditam. That is transcendental platform, and in that platform you can understand God. (690618SB.NV) The total exhibition of these potencies [ sandhini, samvit and hladini ] is called visuddha-sattva. (Cc. Adi 4.62)

All the residents of Vaikunthaloka know perfectly well that their master is Narayana, or Krsna, and that they are all His servants. They are all self-realized souls who are nitya-mukta, everlastingly liberated. Although they could conceivably declare themselves Narayana or Visnu, they never do so; they always remain Krsna conscious and serve the Lord faithfully. Such is the atmosphere of Vaikunthaloka. ( Bhag. 6.1.34-6, purp.) A man with full knowledge knows perfectly well that there cannot be any existence without Krsna. ( Bhag. 7.15.58, purp.) An exalted and pure devotee like Maharaja Ambarisa is in full awareness of Paramatma, Brahman, maya, the material world, the spiritual world, and how things are going on everywhere. ( Bhag. 9.5.25, purp.) ... he never forgets his eternal servitorship to Krsna. ( Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.) . . .the nitya-siddhas are eternally Krsna conscious without any forgetfulness. (Nectar of Devotion, p. 205) [the nitya-mukta living entity] never forgets his eternal servitorship to Krsna. ( Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.) The living beings in Vaikunthaloka are never forgetful of their identities: they are eternally cognizant of their relationship with God ( Cc. Madhya-lila 5.22, purp.) Within this material world there are different grades of forms, and according to the grade, knowledge is proportionately manifested. For example, the knowledge in the body of a child is not as perfect as the knowledge in the body of an adult man. Everywhere there are different grades of living entities–in aquatic animals, in the plants and trees, in the reptiles and insects, in birds and beasts and in the civilized and uncivilized human forms of life. Above the human form of life there are demigods, Caranas and Siddhas on up to Brahmaloka, where Lord Brahma lives, and among these demigods there are always different grades of knowledge. But past this material world, in the spiritual sky, everyone is in full knowledge, and therefore all the living entities there are engaged in devotional service to the Lord, either in the Vaikuntha planets or in Krsnaloka. ( Krsna Book, Ch 28) The description of the spiritual world... Suddha-sattva means simply goodness, pure goodness... And in pure goodness we can understand our constitutional position: we can understand what is God, what is creation, everything... So the living entities there, they are full of knowledge. Therefore they do not come into this material world. (661217CC.NY) Root of forgetfullness is avidya, which is not present in the spiritual world. (cf. Cc. Madhya-lila 6.155) Cit means that he's full of knowledge. That is not in ignorance. This material happiness is in ignorance. And spiritual happiness is suddha-sattva. Suddha-sattva means pure goodness... Sattvam visuddham, visuddham vasudeva-sabditam. That is transcendental platform, and in that platform you can understand God. (690618SB.NV) In the spiritual world the form is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha. Every form is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. That is the difference between material world and spiritual world. (760419BG.MEL) Nitya-siddhas means they never come in contact with this material world, and even if they come here for some business, they do not forget their position. That is nitya-siddha . Try to understand. (Bg. Lecture, July 14, 1973, London) We contrast these descriptions of self-realization and full knowledge regarding the residents of the spiritual worlds with that presented in the GBC Position Booklet. Therein, "full of knowledge" is defined as "possessing only a small portion of knowledge according to ones small capacity and necessity." It is also stated that, "the living entity, covered by envy, cannot recognize that he will suffer in the material world...Covered by lust, the living entity forgets his original knowledge and enters into the material domain to try to satisfy his desires." Here in particular, three gross mistakes are made. The first mistake is the assumption that "full knowledge," in reference to the residents of the spiritual world, can be interpreted to mean that these residents are not fully self realized as shown above and therefore they make the mistake of choosing to go to the material world. The second mistake is that the living entity may be covered by envy and lust while still within the spiritual world. The third mistake is that a resident of the spiritual world has desires to satisfy. These points have already been discussed and validated in this essay. 6c- References that the residents of the spiritual world are infallible . . . and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text) Deathlessness, fearlessness and freedom from the anxieties of old age and disease exist in the kingdom of God. ( Bhag . 2.6.19, text) The spiritual world... is especially meant for those who will never be reborn. ( Bhag . 2.6.20, text) The Lord and His eternal servitors in the transcendental kingdom all have eternal forms which are auspicious, infallible, spiritual and eternally youthful. (Bhag. 2.6.18, purport) In the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda , it is stated ...the three-fourths manifestation of God's creation... contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions... It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material world. ( Bhag . 2.9.10, purport) The three-fourths part manifestation of God's creation... contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions... everything in the transcendental world is everlasting, full of knowledge and bliss without any deterioration. (720426SB.TOK) The Lord has His internal energy also, which has another creation known to be the Vaikunthalokas, where there is no ignorance, no passion, no illusion and no past and present. With a poor fund of knowledge one may be unable to understand the existence of such things as the Vaikuntha atmosphere, but that does not nullify its existence. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)

5b- The Yoga-maya energy of the spiritual world always acts to perfect the Lords lila. Yogamaya... acts to perfect all the pastimes of the Lord with His different types of devotees. ( Bhag . 2.7.30, purp.) The transcendental happiness exhibited in the spiritual world and all other spiritual manifestations there are made possible by the influence of yoga-maya, the internal potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. ( Bhag . 3.15.26, purport) When a devotee or associate of the Lord descends to this material world, he does so through the action of the spiritual energy. Any pastime conducted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead is an arrangement by yoga-maya, not maha-maya. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.) There is some action of the internal potency of the Lord in the exchange of feelings between Him and His eternal associates... The Lord exchanges transcendental relations in five ways, as proprietor, master, friend, son and lover, and in each of these pastimes He plays fully by the potency of yogamaya , the internal potency. He plays exactly like an equal friend... exactly like a son... exactly like a lover... exactly like a husband... Such devotees...think of Him exactly as a common friend, a pet son, or a lover or husband very much dear to heart and soul. That is the relation between the Lord and His transcendental devotees... When the Lord descends, He does so along with His entourage to display a complete picture of the transcendental world, where pure love and devotion for the Lord prevail without any mundane tinge of lording it over the creation of the Lord. ( Bhag . 1.11.39, purp.) The Lord's pure devotee renders service unto the Lord out of unalloyed love only, and while discharging such devotional service the pure devotee forgets the position of the Supreme Lord. [ Bhag . 1.8.31, purport] Srila Jiva Gosvami has elaborately explained... One of the fundamental philosophical principles of the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the distinction between two types of illusion, Yoga-maya and Maha-maya, the spiritual and material states of existence, respectively. Although Krsna is God, the omnipotent, omniscient Supreme Being, His intimate associates in the spiritual world love Him so much that they see Him as their beloved child, friend, lover and so on. So that their ecstatic love can transcend the boundaries of mere reverence, they forget that Krsna is the Supreme God of all the universes, and thus their pure, intimate love expands unlimitedly. (Bhag. 10.28.13, purp. by disciples of Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada) Yogamaya means the mercy of the Supreme Lord which connects a devotee in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and mahamaya means the external potency of the Lord which puts a conditioned soul into illusion that he will be happy by material adjustment. Ltr Aniruddha 68-11-14 The Lord and His pure devotees are always beyond the range of Maya's action. Even though they appear like action of Maya, we should understand their action of Yogamaya or the internal potency of the Lord. SP Ltr Satsvarupa 68-04-03 Yogamaya means the mercy of the Supreme Lord which connects a devotee in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and mahamaya means the external potency of the Lord which puts a conditioned soul into illusion that he will be happy by material adjustment. (Ltr Aniruddha 68-11-14) By the influence of the Lord's yogamaya potency, Krsna's cowherd boyfriends think themselves His equals and sometimes challenge Him. A boy will climb on His back and say, "What kind of a big man are You?" Similarly, when mother Yasoda or Srimati Radharani chides Krsna, He likes it. (NBS 2.27) 5c- Envy does not manifest in the spiritual world. The most important thing about the spiritual world is that there is no envy among the devotees there. (Bhag. 3.15.19, purp.) Where not only is life eternal, blissful and full of knowledge... ignorance, misery, egoism, anger and envy–are completely absent. (Cc. Madhya 5.22, purp.) There is no envy in the spiritual world. The OOP's book states that when a resident there becomes envious he must leave because envy is not allowed. We do not agree that envy can manifest even for a fraction of a second. If you wish to light a match in a gas filled room and think that you may go outside after lighting the match you will blow yourself up first, you cannot have the fire in the room for a moment. Similarly envy cannot even manifest in the spiritual realm--the nature of the spiritual world is such that the unpleasant conditions under which envy and other negative material qualities may develop are completely absent there, as we have shown with the many references quoted herein. 5d- References that there is absolutely no disharmony in spiritual world In the Vaikuntha world there is complete harmony between the residents and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Bhag. 3.15.33, text) In the Vaikuntha world there is no question of enmity between the Lord and the residents. (Bhag. 3.15.32, purport) ... are absolutely in harmony with the Personality of Godhead, or in other words, they always think of the Lord as their only dependable friend and well-wisher. (Bhag. 2.2.18, purp.) In the Vaikuntha world there is no disharmony between the Lord and the residents. Therefore God's creation in the Vaikuntha world is perfect. There is no cause of fear. The entire kingdom of God is such a completely harmonious unit that there is no possibility of emnity. Everything there is absolute . . . Maya means disharmony between the living entities and the Supreme Lord, and Vaikuntha means harmony between them. (Bhag. 3.15.33, purp.) [in the spiritual world] those who are in oneness with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, however, are called infallible. Oneness does not mean that they have no individuality, but that there is no disunity. (Bg. 15.16, purp.) In the spiritual world... there is no disparity because everyone wants to render service to the Supreme Lord, and no one wants to imitate the Lord in becoming the beneficiary. (Bhag. 1.15.25-6, purp.) There the devotees are so much in accord with Krsna and Visnu that there is no question of disagreement. (690411rc.ny) There is no more jati , no more distinction. Everything serving. That one. The master is also spiritual, and the servant is also spiritual, and there is no other relationship. Here in the material world we artificially want to become . . . we want to become God. But in the spiritual world there is no such conception. (741216SB.BOM) -- Many statements exist in sastra and the writings of Gaudiya Acaryas which clearly indicate that the residents of the spiritual world are all self-realized [6a], full of knowledge and six opulences [6b], infallible [6c], are pure devotees [6d], have no desires [6e] and are suddha-sattva/cinmaya-rasa [6f]. A detailed investigation of these qualities clearly reveals that it is impossible for those possessing such qualities to ever desire to leave the spiritual world. [6g] 6a- References showing that the residents of the spiritual world are all self realized All the residents of Vaikunthaloka... are all self-realized souls who are nitya-mukta, everlastingly liberated. (Bhag. 6.1.34-6, purp.) Those who are in the spiritual world are known to be completely self-realized because on the spiritual platform the living entity is not forgetful of his service to the Lord. (Bhag. 4.24.33, purp.) Definitions of Self Realized: Knows his constitutional position perfectly well. (Bg 5.20, purp.) Fixed in the understanding that his eternal position is to serve in association with the Supreme Lord. (Bhag. 3.26.2, purp.) To know the individual self and the reciprocal exchanges of loving service between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the living entity is real self-realization. (Bhag. 3.27.28-9, purp.) Those who are in the spiritual world are known to be completely self-realized because on the spiritual platform the living entity is not forgetful of his service to the Lord... they are eternally fixed for they understand the position of the Supreme being, as well as their individual constitution. (Bhag. 4.24.33, purp.) Even in the midst of great distress, a self-realized sage does not lose control of himself, nor is his spiritual knowledge lost... His mind is fixed on the Supreme Personality of Godhead... he cannot be surpassed or overwhelmed. (Bhag. 11.8.5. purp.) According to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, a self-realized soul cuts all doubts to pieces by direct experience of his true spiritual identity... there is no possibility of any existence separate from Lord Krsna. (Bhag. 11.11.12-13, purp. by disciples of Srila Prabhupada) 6b- The residents are completely fixed in knowledge of their constitutional position. The following quotes prove that every resident of the spiritual world is fully cognizant in their sat-cit-ananda spiritual body and cannot become illusioned; additionally, illusion being a product of maya, is not allowed there–na yatra maya (Bhag. 2.9.10). They have free choice but but being in full knowledge and infallible they choose to use it properly and never wish to imitate the Lord. A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in any circumstance... (Bhag. 11.2.53, text) According to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, we can understand from this verse that since none of the material facilities available in any of the universal planetary systems can distract a pure devotee of the Lord, such a devotee can never possibly fall or become inimical to the Lord's service. (Bhag. 11.2.53, purp. by disciples of Srila Prabhupada) In the spiritual world... no one wants to imitate the Lord in becoming the beneficiary. (Bhag. 1.15.25-6, purp.) In the spiritual world, there is no forgetfulness by the living entities, who are free from all kinds of contaminations resulting from the forgetful state of existence... the whole atmosphere of the spiritual world is called vidya, or full of knowledge. (Bhag. 2.6.21, purp.) . . . in that pure conscious state [in the spiritual world] the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but that he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love. (Bhag. 2.9.1, purp. last parag.) A pure living entity in his original spiritual existence is fully conscious of his constitutional position as an eternal servitor of the Lord. All souls who are situated in such pure consciousness are liberated, and therefore they eternally live in bliss and knowledge in the various Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual sky. (Bhag. 3.5.29, purp.) A nitya-mukta never forgets his position as the eternal servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One who does not forget this position and knows that he is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord is nitya-mukta . (Bhag. 4.16.19, purp.)

The all-pervading feature of the Lord - which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states and from which the jiva-sakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls - is known as Brahman. ( Isopanisad 16, purp., 9th parag.) It should be understood that the jiva soul is neither produced of this material world, nor created in the transcendental world. They are originated from the marginal line between the transcendental and mundane spheres. ( Tattva-viveka 2.4, purp.) Unexplainable contradictions inherent in the "Fall Theory:" There are no sastric statements that we fall from the spiritual world nor are there any references anywhere to a "mukta-baddha " living entity--that is, a nitya-mukta living entity that has fallen from the spiritual world and become nitya-baddha. Bhaktivinode Thakura in his Jaiva Dharma lists three types of living entities and gives specific information of their creation by the Lord. That is, the nitya-mukta parsada's of Vaikuntha are generated by Sankarsana, the nitya-mukta parsada's of Goloka Vrndavana are generated by Balarama and the marginal jivas of the tatastha-sakti are generated from Maha Vishnu. He does not mention a fourth type of entity, nor does any other authoritative source anywhere mention such an entity. -- The only statements, both in sastra and by Vaishnava acaryas are that the residents of the spiritual world are infallible and are eternally resident there--forever free from the influence of maya. Innumerable commentaries by prominent Gaudiya Vaishnava acaryas clearly indicate that we do not fall from the spiritual world. Srila Prabhupada also states that "the conclusion is that no one falls." (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) These clearly stated "no fall" statements cannot even begin to be reconciled by the "fall theory" advocates. This one point in itself renders the "fall theory" inconclusive and erroneous. There is no sastra sangati--reconciliation of contradictory statements of sastra or acaryas. To present a non-sastric and incomplete explanation that the residents of Vaikuntha have not actually fallen but are only daydreaming about mahamaya is not at all consistent with the numerous quotes presented herein--the residents of Vaikuntha never forget Krsna, never are influenced by maha-maya, are eternally blissful etc. If they experience any dreams they would certainly be about Krsna. -- All bonafide Vaishnava acaryas and publications unanimously state that the living entities do not fall from the spiritual world. [4] In recent years, there are some devotees that have published views contrary to those of the Vaishnava acaryas in hopes of establishing their own siddhanta. This is not acceptable. Numerous quotations from prominent Vaishnava authorities are presented in our web site: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva_10.html We have heard the siddhanta that no one falls from the spiritual world personally from many many highly exaulted Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas, in addition to our own Guru Maharaja, Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada [the conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world: Bhag. 3.16.26 purp], such as Srila Sridhara Maharaja, recognized by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura as sastra-nipuna (scriptural genious), Srila Bhakti Promod Puri Maharaja, chief editor of the daily spiritual newspaper Nadiya Prakasa during and after the time of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, Srila Bhakti Vallabh Tirtha Maharaja, the successor acarya of Shri Chaitanya Gaudiya Matha of Madhava Maharaja, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, a leading disciple of Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja, the sannyasa guru of Srila Prabhupada, and leading sannyasi disciples of Srila Prabhupada such as Jagat Guru Swami B. G. Narasingha and Swami B. V. Tripurari and many others. And they are repeating what they learned from their Guru Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and his direct disciples. Although Srila Prabhupada mentions having differences with his godbrothers and the Gaudiya Matha he never once even suggests that they do not understand the siddhanta. It is highly unlikely that they would say something different from that which was taught to them by their Guru Maharaja. These aforementioned Vaisnavas are seniormost in terms of their realizations and spiritual standing, so their knowledge and realization should not be completely disregarded. Additionally, our godbrother, the late Gour Govinda Maharaja, was highly learned in siddhanta and scrutinizingly studied the commentaries of our acaryas, especially Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. He was known for his uncompromizing firm stand with the "No Fall" siddhanta. -- The residents of the spiritual world are extremely happy and being very much in love with Krsna, could never consider leaving.[5a]. Yogamaya always acts to perfect the Lord's lila. [5b] Residents cannot become envious [5c] and there is no disharmony there. [5d] 5a- References showing that the residents of the spiritual world are extremely happy and being very much in love with Krsna, could never consider leaving. The nitya-siddha devotees love Krsna millions of times more than their own selves. They all have eternal, blissful qualities just like Lord Krsna. (Brs. 2.1.290, text) Whether boys, youths, or grown-up persons-every one of the millions of cowherd residents of Vraja feels himself the dearest to Krsna. (Brhad-bhag. 2.6.211, text) Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana writes in Govinda-bhasya, "One cannot even imagine that the Supreme Lord Hari would ever desire that the liberated souls fall down, nor would the liberated souls ever desire to leave the Lord." He further states that this is because of their extreme mutual love and cites four verses as evidence (Bg. 7.17, Bhag. 9.4.68, 9.4.65 and 2.8.6). For a devotee who has actually developed bhava, the pleasure derived from dharma, artha, kama and moksa appears like a drop in the presence of the sea. (Cc. Adi-lila 7.85, text) The Lord's pure devotee renders service unto the Lord out of unalloyed love only, and while discharging such devotional service the pure devotee forgets the position of the Supreme Lord. [bhag. 1.8.31, purport] The conception of spiritual bliss (Brahmananda) is fully present in those planets ... That eternal land is full of transcendental enjoyment and full of beauty and bliss. (Bhag.2.6.18, purp.) For all living entities to be attracted toward Krsna is natural, and therefore the Lord's real name is Krsna, meaning He who attracts everyone and everything. The typical examples of such attraction are found in Vrndavana, where everything and everyone is attracted by Krsna... all living beings are attracted by Krsna. This is the natural situation of everything in Vrndavana. Just contrary to the affairs of Vrndavana is the material world, where no one is attracted by Krsna and everyone is attracted by maya. This is the difference between the spiritual and material worlds. ( Bhag . 7.5.14, purp.) The Vrndavana-lila of Krsna is the perfect presentation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's simply enjoying. And all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, the gopis, the cowherd boys, Maharaja Nanda, Yasoda, everyone is simply anxious how to make Krsna happy. They have no other business. The inhabitants of Vrndavana has no other business than to satisfy Krsna, and Krsna has no other business. Yasoda-nandana brajajana-rajana. He's acting as the little son of Yasoda, and His only business is how to please the inhabitants of Vrndavana. Yasoda-nandana brajajana-rajana. [710217CC.GOR] In the spiritual world there is no such distinction. The officer and the cleaner, they are of the same importance. That is even Krsna, with Krsna. That is spiritual world. In Vrndavana the cowherds boys, they are playing with Krsna on equal terms. They do not know Krsna is God. They simply know how to love Krsna, that's all. There is no need of thinking that "Krsna is greater than the other cowherds boy. They are living entities." There is no such sense. Krsna wants that. That is Goloka Vrndavana worship. Simply the center is Krsna, and all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, they love Krsna, and they do not know anything except Krsna. This is Vrndavana life. Everyone knows that "Krsna is my very intimate friend." Somebody knows, "Krsna is my son," somebody knows that "Krsna is my master," and somebody is thinking, "Krsna is my lover." But center is Krsna. The cows, the calves, the friends, the gops, and the cowherds boy, Krsna's father, Nanda Maharaja, Krsna's mother, Yasomati, and . . . Everyone's center is Krsna, "How Krsna will be happy?" This is Vrndavana life. (750312DP.LON) Vrndavana means this attachment to Krsna. Central point is Krsna, but the varieties of attachment, they are the same. The only difference is that this attachment centering round Krsna is never broken. (750709SB.CHI)

The living entity enmeshed in maya sees no viable choice besides maya, in the sense that he is attached and thinks that this life of maya is in his best interest. Although he has the free choice to choose spiritual life, he sees this as a threat to his sense gratification and therefore undesirable. In the spiritual world however, the living entity, fully absorbed and overwhelmed with ecstatic love, cannot bear the thought of doing anything averse to the Lord's interest—seeing this as a threat to his continued absorption in pure loving ecstatic devotional service—his very life. In the spiritual world, all the living entities are fully self-realized. As shown below in section 6a, they have fully realized the conclusions of sastra—that they are an eternal servant of the Lord, and they are fully experiencing their realizations of eternal blissfulness. It is not that they know every last detail of sastra. For example, some of the gopis were previously the Personified Vedas. Although as gopis, they are celebrated as exhibiting the highest standard of devotion and are recognized as such by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu—ramya kacit upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena, they had almost no knowledge of the Vedas, and state as much in their wonderful prayers upon meeting their beloved Krsna after so long at Kuruksetra. (Bhag. 10.82.48) Yet we should not agree with them that they are ordinary girls simply engaged in household affairs. They are the personification of the Vedas, absorbed in the highest mellows of devotion—krsna-prema. Thesis The source of the dispute over the siddhanta regarding the origin of the jiva stems from the fact that vast amounts of devotees are not well read in the Goswami's literatures, have not understood their conclusions properly and thus do not properly know the siddhanta. A lack of proper understanding or appreciation of the most dear associates of the Lord is shown, for instance, by those who try to equate the appearance of the pure devotee Tulasi-devi in this material world as synonomous with that of ordinary conditioned jivas. ... tulasi is given special preference by the Lord. (Bhag. 3.15.19, text) Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains... Urja is [the Lord's] internal potency for performing pastimes; she expands as the tulasi plant in this world. (Bhag. 10.39.53-5, purp.) Tulasi Devi never goes back to Godhead, she is always with Godhead. She is a pure devotee and thus she has appeared on this planet to render service to Krsna by being offered in all temples throughout the world, by being offered up to the lotus feet of Krsna. (SP Ltr Radhavallabha: 6 January, 1972) Yes, Sri Tulasi is the eternal consort of Krsna, and the most pure devotee, and therefore, the Tulasi plant is worshipped by Vaisnavas. (SP Ltr Balai: 22 March, 1968) Sastra says, "Tulasi is the greatest devotee of Krsna." We have to accept, that's all. Authority. How she is so great devotee, that you will understand when you become a devotee. (730222SB.AUC) People present many illogical arguments, kutarka. They consider the Lord in Goloka and the eternal transcendental variety, in the form of the eternal relation between the worshipable Lord and His devotees, equal to the temporary activities of the conditioned souls under the influence of maya. Many arguments are raised in such philosophy considering the eternal transcendental objects equal to the material inert objects, but reality is not so. The pastimes of the svarupa-sakti of the Lord are not equal to the temporary endeavors of the conditioned soul in the material world. (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, Vivrti on Bhag. 3.7.11) In fact to think that any associate of the Lord in the spiritual world can fall from His association showns a lack of understanding of the basic intrinsic nature of the Lord's svarupa-sakti and it's wonderful all absorbing ecstatic attribute, Krsna-prema. Prema References: In the material world there cannot be prema. Prema means love. The prema is only possible in the spiritual world. (720522SB.LA) Conclusion is that when you get your spiritual body then the desire will be different. And that is prema ...in the spiritual world, because there is no material body, only desire is how to satisfy Krsna. Kama krsna karmarpane. (761127SB.VRN) In the Vaikuntha planets there is actual, spiritual ananda . Krsna is there in His ecstatic, spiritual form, surrounded by His blissful associates, all of them eternally full of bliss and knowledge. They have nothing to do with material existence. In the spiritual planets even the scenery and birds and animals are fully conscious of Krsna and are absorbed in transcendental bliss. (Bhag. 11.2.37, purp.) Antithesis If we [incorrectly] assume that the siddhanta is that we do fall from the spiritual world, we are faced with a host of contradictions which cannot be resolved. The bulk of this presentation is concerned with documenting these contradictions with quotes from sastra, our acaryas and Srila Prabhupada. The official Iskcon GBC presentation, Our Original Position, fails to prove that the nitya-mukta jivas fall from the spiritual world. Inconclusive statements are given in an attempt to show that the jivas all originated in this material world by falling from the Lords lila in the spiritual world. This OOPs book does not address the real arguments or resolve the innumerable contradictions which arise from their hypothesis. The jivas originate from the tatastha. Innumerable references from prominent acaryas, some of which are given below, clearly and repeatedly state that the marginal jivas originate from the tatastha-sakti of the Lord and not in the spiritual (cit-sakti) realm itself. It should be understood that the jiva soul is neither produced of this material world, nor created in the transcendental world. They are originated from the marginal line between the transcendental and mundane spheres. ( Tattva Viveka 2.4, by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, page 55) The root of all actions is the desire for acts, the root of which again is avidya. Avidya is the name for the forgetfulness of soul's essential nature that 'I am Krsna's servant.' This avidya did not commence within the course of the mundane time. That root of karma of the jiva arose when he was at the tatastha position. As such, the beginning of karma is not to be traced within mundane time, and, on that account karma is beginningless. ( Jaiva Dharma, pag 234) The previous reference is also quoted in OOP's on page 269 but rather than accept this straightforward statement for what it is, it is lamely suggested that we shouldn't try to understand such things. One may then intelligently ask, "Then why have you written the OOPs book at all?!" There are two types of jivas liberated from maya: nitya-mukta , eternally liberated, and baddha-mukta, those who were bound but became liberated. The jivas who were never bound by maya are called nitya-mukta. The nitya-muktas are also of two types, aisvarya gata nitya mukta and madhurya gata nitya mukta. The former are the associates of Lord Narayana in Vaikuntha and are the atomic particles from mula Sankarsana. The latter are the associates of Lord Krsna in Goloka. They are the atomic particles of Sri Baladeva situated in Goloka Vrndavana. ( Jaiva-Dharma, Chapter 17, p. 251) The following reference is very clear and straightforward, presented exactly as translated and published in English by leading devotee scholars under the direction of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. The jivas have grown out of the jiva-shakti of Sri Krishna. Chit-shakti is Sri Krishna's full (plenary) shakti, whereas the jiva-shakti is the incomplete shakti. From the plenary potency are produced complete entities, but from the incomplete potency have grown the jivas as atomic chit... When he desired to have His adherent attendance ' nitya parshada ' servitors in His Transcendental plane Goloka- Vrindavana, Vaikuntha, etc, He through Baladeva created those Eternal Parshada as nitya-mukta jivas at those divine worlds... Again at Paravyoma (Vaikuntha) He, as Sankarshana, reveals the eternally free associate jivas for the performance of the eight kinds of service to Sri Narayana. Maha Vishnu, the incarnation of Sankarshana, establishing Himself in the heart of jiva-shakti as Paramatma, creates the jiva-souls of tatastha shakti. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya ... As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-shakti that begets the jivas, and not the chit-shakti. " (Bhaktivinode Thakura, Jaiva Dharma, Chapter 15) According to Visnu Purana, Bhagavad-gita and all other Vedic literature's, the living entities are generated from the tatastha energy of the Lord. (Bhag. 3.7.9, purport) The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is confirmed in Brahma-samhita: yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-ananda-koti. ( Bhag. 4.30.5, purport) As spiritual sparks of the beams emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord, we are all permanently related with Him and equal to Him in quality. ( C.c. Madhya-lila 5.22)

A Short Presentation on Jiva-tattva <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="620"> <tbody><tr> <td> jiva-tattva index </td> <td>By Swami B. B. Visnu </td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="550"> <tbody><tr> <td> The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord.... it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.) </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="550"> <tbody><tr> <td> [The Spiritual World] contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions... It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material world. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport) </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="800"> <tbody><tr> <td> Purpose: To present pertinent quotes from sastra, acaryas and our acarya (Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) on the subject of jiva-tattva in a logical way that shows conclusively that the living entities in the spiritual world do not fall from there. We have purposely avoided making statements or including references which are ambiguous, as they distract the reader from the focus of this paper. The necessity for this paper arises due to the continued misunderstanding of the actual siddhanta on jiva-tattva by a section of devotees. Many illogical statements have been made in defense of the theory that we fall from the Lord's eternal lila. We will show by analysis of rasa-tattva and logic that is is completely impossible and illogical for living entities to fall from the spiritual world. Evidence: All evidence given by all Gaudiya Vaishnava acaryas, sastra, and Vaishnava publications directly states that we do not fall from the spiritual world [either Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana]. When the primary meaning of evidence is clear and coherent there is no necessity to interpret it, as stated by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu: For each sutra the direct meaning must be accepted without interpretation. However, you simply abandon the direct meaning and proceed with your imaginative interpretation. Although there is other evidence, the evidence given in the Vedic version must be taken as foremost. Vedic versions understood directly are first-class evidence. ( Cc. Madhya-lila 6.134-5, texts) </td> </tr> </tbody></table> No Fall References: The living entities [jivas ] are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned... [the first are] always awake to Krsna consciousness,... eternal associates.. eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 22.10-11, text) In the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text) Websters New World Dictionary defines "infallible" as: 1- incapable of error, never wrong, 2-not liable to fail, go wrong, make a mistake etc, 3-incapable of error in setting forth doctrine on faith and morals. The third characteristic of Vaikuntha is that one does not fall (Bhag.-sand. 61) Free jivas are never enslaved. (Vaisnavism Real and Apparent, Lecture, Bhaktisiddanta S Thakura ) The nitya-siddha devotees never fall down. (Bhag. 3.3.26, purp.) . . . a devotee in the transcendental abode of the Lord never falls. (Bhag. 3.15.48, purp.) The conclusion [re Jaya-Vijaya] is that no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) ... they never fall into the material world. (Bhag. 5.11.12, purp.) From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord.... it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.) The question is that, why the living entity falls down? It is not falls down. Just like Jaya-Vijaya came just to satisfy his master. His master desired fighting, so some of His servant went to the material world and became great enemy." (720405SB.MEL) Nitya-mukta means they never come in this material world. (Bhag. June 19, 1972, Los Angeles) In the spiritual world... inhabitants...They're aksara. They do not fall down. Ksara aksara. We are ksaras. We have fallen down in this material world. But there are devotees in the spiritual world, in the Vaikunthaloka, they never come down. Never come down in this material world, but they are also persons like us, but eternal persons, with full knowledge and life of blissfulness. That is the difference between them and us. (741105SB.BOM) Statements taken as indicating that the origin of all living entities in this material world is by falling from the Lord's lila are obtained thru misinterpretation of secondary indirect statements and not primary direct statements. According to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, one must consider direct first hand evidence rather than subsidiary indirect statements interpreted according to one's necessity. To introduce ambiguous statements and interpret them distorts the clear meaning of the primary evidence further. The Our Original Position book (OOP's) clouds the issue by presenting inconclusive arguments without answering the many contradictions pointed out in this presentation. Sarvabhauma Battacarya tried to defeat Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu with many false arguments: "The word vitanda indicates that a debater, not touching the main point or establishing his own point, simply tries to refute the other person's argument. When one does not touch the direct meaning but tries to divert attention by misinterpretation, he engages in chala. " ( Cc. Madhya-lila 6.176, purp.) For example, a verse sometimes cited as evidence of falldown is Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.2.37, bhayam dvitiyabhinivesatah syad isad apetasya viparyayo ’smrtih tan-mayayato budha abhajet tam bhaktyaikayesam guru-devatatma When the living entity thus turns away from the Supreme Lord, he also forgets his own constitutional position as a servant of the Lord. This bewildering, fearful condition is effected by the potency for illusion, called maya. This verse does not make any reference to liberated souls nor even to the spiritual world. No acaryas have explained this verse as indicative of falldown from Vaikuntha, indeed this verse states that this condition of turning away from the Lord is brought about by maya, which is not present in Vaikuntha (cf. Bhag 2.9.10: na yatra maya ). Proponents of the "Fall Theory" like to equate statements such as "forgetting Krsna" as synonomous with the assumption that we were with Krsna in the spiritual world and forgot Him. Srila Prabhupada however dispelled this misunderstanding in a letter to Jagadisa Dasa in 1970: Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly like deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs. The understanding that is presented here very clearly by Srila Prabhupada is much different than that interpreted by some–that we were all originally with the Lord in His lila in the spiritual world. In the purport of this famous Bhag. 11.2.37, krsna bhuli verse (alsoCc. Madhya-lila 20.117) Srila Prabhupada explains the text of this verse, translated as "Forgetting Krsna" as meaning When the living entity forgets his constitutional position as an eternal servant of Krsna. Furthermore, the statements presented above of Srila Prabhupada and other acaryas, directly refuting the fall hypothesis are completely ignored by proponents of this hypothesis without any attempt to reconcile them. Therefore the burden of proof lies with those proposing this fall theory. Additional references are available at: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/jiva/jiva_1.html Free Will Free choice is an inherent quality of all living entities, yet this quality is greatly misunderstood. As we will show, residents of the spiritual world are blissful and are never forgetful of their eternal position as servitors of the Supreme Lord and therefore will never misuse their free will. All living entities in the spiritual world are on the same transcendental platform. References for this are given later in this presentation. There is no more chance for a jiva to leave the spiritual world than it is possible for Baladeva to give up his relationship with Lord Krsna. A living entity misuses his little independence when he wants to lord it over material nature. This misuse of independence, which is called maya, is always available, otherwise there would not be independence. Independence implies that one can use it properly or improperly. (Bhag. 3.31.15, purp.) The devotees of the Lord do not misuse their freedom. (Bhag. 1.8.23, purp.) The living beings are given as much freedom as they deserve, and misuse of that freedom is the cause of suffering. The devotees of the Lord do not misuse their freedom, and therefore they are the good sons of the Lord. (Bhag. 1.8.28, purp.) A pure devotee of the Lord is so purified in his heart that he cannot leave the shelter of Lord Krsna in any circumstances. There is no self-interest in such service. (Bhag. 2.8.6, purp.) Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at all..., do they also have the independence? Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that "I am meant for Krsna's service," and they are happy in Krsna's service. (670218CC.SF) Krsna says He has given free will, but His personal advice is: "I am now talking to you the most confidential words." Sarva-guhyatamam. "You stop your so-called free will. Just surrender to Me." This is the most confidential. "If you surrender to Me, that is good for you. But if you go on keeping your free will you'll not be happy." (731213mw.la) In the ISKCON GBC Position booklet (OOPs p. 194) it is stated that the residents of the spiritual world have the free will to leave, as a crazy man has the free will to jump off the roof. In this booklet they state that these residents are indeed crazy (bewildered) when they leave. This explanation is very insubstantial and misleading. In the material world we always have the choice between matter and spirit but in the spiritual world there is no matter so one will not and cannot choose matter.

Even within ISKCON it seems that about a third of the devotees believe that the jiva falls from Vaikuntha, about a third believes that the jiva falls from the brahmajyoti and about a third are undecided. Despite the on-going debate these per centages and divisions seem fairly constant with very, very few changing their position. All sides in the debate claim that Srila Prabhupada is their authority, but the Fall and Dreamer advocates tend to wrap themselves in the flag of supposed loyalty to Srila Prabhupada and either covertly or overtly allege that the other side is somehow disloyal. One of their ploys is to claim that those who believe in the tatastha origins (brahmajyoti) are somehow impersonalist. But the contradiction is that they also use this srategy against non-ISKCON acaryas who tend to give more detailed information about Krsna's "personal" pastimes. Then, when they hear about such detailed personal descriptions they then make the charge of sahjiyaism. Why would those who are more concerned with the actual pastimes of Krsna be impersonalist because they accept the tatastha origin of soul, while those fall and sleepervadis, who claim to be personalists, have very little interest or understanding of Krsna's pastimes? Isn't that a strange contradiction? And isn't it indeed a major Vaisnava aparadha to claim that those who are strongly fixed in the concept that to serve Krsna in His pastimes with full prema are actually Mayavadis? And what will be the result? One can only assume by simple logic that those who take that unhappy path will be barred from further attraction to the pastimes of the Lord. There but for the grace of God go I.

To the Honorable Member BY: CHITRAKETU DASA Mar 16, UK (SUN) — A reply to " A Playful Fall ". I don’t think that Krishna’s all-attractiveness is moot. Once within the compass of Krishna’s gravitational field, there is no question of escape. This is practical. If you wish to peruse a publication that deals extensively with this issue, please read Satya-Narayana and Kundali’s well researched book “ In Vaikuntha Not Even the Leaves Fall .” I believe this book is banned from ISKCON’s essential reading list, probably because it’s too philosophical. No doubt the authors have been black-listed and their characters thoroughly assassinated by now; however the book itself contains extensive quotes from such notables as Jiva Goswami, Bhaktivinoda Thakur and others whom I’m sure you’ve heard of. Subtly calling into question my allegiance to Srila Prabhupada, dear Honorable Member, is not within your purview, since dedicated to Srila Prabhupada I have been unflinchingly since 1973. I request you to be more respectful. On the question itself, if Srila Prabhupada says two different things and you are prepared to accept Prabhupada’s authority on it and only his authority, then you are constrained to accept both statements as being correct, not plump for one of them, in this case the one that is not corroborated by previous acharyas or sastra, thereby taking the “sadhu” and “sastra” part out of the by now familiar “guru”, “sadhu”, “sastra” evidential trio. With regard to the “Back to Godhead” argument, the jiva undoubtedly comes from Krishna and goes back to Krishna, but it does not come from fully manifest lila; this is evident, and from the view point of “sastra” and “sadhu”, it is unquestionable. I don’t believe that Srila Prabhupada was ambiguous, just evasive, like the present GBC, unwilling perhaps to address the question in depth, which he did not do. If you take a handful of evasive remarks and make a whole philosophy out of it, you are making a mistake. Srila Prabhupada didn’t want to address the issue in-depth, he merely wanted to establish clearly that the jiva always has free will. To those who are a little perceptive, this is obvious. Srila Prabhupada is a person, after all, not everything he says at all times under all circumstances is to be taken as the absolute word of God. Srila Prabhupada gave us the formula for understanding, which is the trio mentioned above. Even if Srila Prabhupada himself appears to say something that lands outside of this evidentiary compound, it should be rejected as circumstantial. This is clear thinking, and does not go outside of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. With the whole Ritvik issue, ISKCON has chosen to follow precedent rather than accept what the Ritviks call a circumstantial adjustment. Why does ISKCON, or should I say the GBC, not do the same in this case? No, I don’t understand how the jiva, in such a blissful situation as residing in Vrndavana, can become envious and depart that realm. I don’t understand it, and I don’t accept it, and the idea of a playful fall is plainly stupid. I suppose the Second World War was a transcendental joke. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED.

Dash-Vidha-Nama-Aparadha hari-nama mahamantra sarva-mantra-sar jader korunabale jagate pracar sei namanrayan sadhu mahajan tahader ninda na koriha kadacan brajendranandana krishna sarveshvareshvar maheshvar adi tar sevana-tatpar nama-cintamani krishna-caitanya-swarup bhedajñan na koribe lila-guna-rup "guru krishnarup han sashtrer pramane gururupe krishna kripa kore bhagyavane" se gurute marttya-budhi avajñadi tyaji ishtalabh koro, nirantara nam bhaji shruti shrutimata-saha satvata puran shrinam-carana-padma kore nirajan sei shruti shastra jeba koroye nindan se aparadha sanga koribe barjjan namer mahima sarvva-shastrete bakhane atistuti han kabhu na bhaviha mane agastya, ananta, brahma, shivadi stata je nam-mahima-gatha sankirttana-rata se nam-mahima-sindhu ke paibe par ? atistuti bole jei–sei duracar krishna-namaboli nitya goloker dhan kalpita, prakrita, bhave–aparadhijan name sarvvapapa-ksoy sarvva-shastre koy sardin pap kori sei bharasay emota durbudhi jar sei aparadhi maya-prabancita, duhkha bhunje nirabadhi atulya srikrishna-nam purna-rasa-nidhi tar sam na bhaviha sp shubha-karma adi name shradha-hin jan–bidhatta bancita tare nam dane apradha sunishcita shuniyao krishna-nam-mahatmya apar je priti-rahita, sei naradhama char ahamta mamata jar antore bahire shudha krishna-nam tar kabhu nahi sphure ei dash aparadh koriya barjjan je sujana kore harinama sankirttan apurva srikrishna-prem labhya tar hoy nam-prabhu tar hride nitya bolishoy tridandi bhiksu–sri bhakti sundar govinda Ten Offenses To Be Avoided The maha-mantra we receive from Sri Gurudev is the essence of all divine sound and by the merciful power of the name itself, it is spreading throughout the world. The sadhus (devotees) are the reservoirs of the divine name and at no time should they be offended. The son of the king of Braja, the lord of lords, Sri Krishna is served by all the Devas, headed by Maheshvar Shiva and is always superior to them. The divine form of the name of Krishna is non-different from him, as are his qualities, pastimes, associates and divine form and should never be considered to be separate from him. Krishna appears to us in the form of Sri Guru and this is evidenced in all the scriptures. In this form of Sri Guru, Krishna bestows his mercy on the fortunate souls. Therefore, one should never consider the sat Guru to be an ordinary person. Serving him will fulfill all of our spiritual desires. The holy scriptures guide us on the proper path and are revealed through pure goodness. We should always be careful not to slight these revealed scriptures because with the help of the saints, every syllable guides to the divine name of Krishna. All of the holy scriptures directly declare the glories of the divine name. One should never think these glories to be exaggerated. All of the great Rishis and Devatas like Agastya, Ananta, Brahma, Shiva and all others are always engaged in the sankirtan of the divine name. The glories of the name are a fathomless ocean. Who can find the end of that ocean? Whomever considers these glories to be imagination is the worst miscreant. This divine name is the treasure of Goloka and one who considers it to be a mundane creation is a criminal. All the shastras state that the holy name can destroy all sins. One should not therefore, pass his entire day engaged in sinful actions. One who does so is misguided offender and is thus plunged into unending sorrow and deprived of the fruits of the divine name. The unparalleled name of Krishna is an ocean of the nectar of divine love. The name is the method to attain that ocean. Nothing can be considered equal to it. One who hears these glories of the divine name but does not develop love for it is the lowest creature. Instead he sees everything through the polluted lens of "I and Mine." The pure name of Krishna is never revealed to such a person. One should steadfastly rid oneself of these ten offenses. Such an offenseless soul ecstatically takes the divine name and tastes the incomparable fruit of Krishna-prem. The divine name is incessantly resounding in the heart of such a pure soul. Composed in Bengali by Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaj, April 2, 1992

Krsna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (12-01-06) CLICK TO LISTEN | DOWNLOAD | Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare As explained on the cover of the record album, this transcendental vibration--by chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare--is the sublime method for reviving our Krsna consciousness. As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our asociation with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now poluted by material atmosphere. In this polluted concept of life, we are all trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in our complexities. This illusion is called maya, or hard struggle for existence over the stringent laws of material nature. This illusory struggle against the material nature can at once be stopped by revival of our Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. And the process is recommended by authorities for this age. By practical experience also, we can perceive that by chanting this maha-mantra, or the Great Chanting for Deliverance, one can at once feel transcendental ecstasy from the spiritual stratum. When one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane. This chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is directly enacted from the spiritual platform, surpassing all lower states of consciousness--namely sensual, mental and intellectual. There is no need of understanding the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this maha-mantra. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration, without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy. We have seen it practically. Even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it. The chanting should be hears, however, from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effect can be achieved. As far as possible, chanting from the lips of a nondevotee should be avoided, as much as milk touched by the lips of a serpent causes poisonous effect. The word Hara is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord. Both Krsna and Rama are forms of addressing directly the Lord, and they mena " the highest pleasure, eternal." Hara is the supreme pleasure potency of the Lord. This potency, when addressed are Hare, helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord. The material energy, called as maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities are described as superior energy than matter. When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara,it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity. The three words, namely Hara, Krsna and Rama, are transcendental seeds of the maha-mantra, and the chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy, Hara, for giving protection to the conditioned soul. The chanting is exactly like a genuine cry by the chold for the mother. Mother Hara helps in achieving the grace of the supreme father, Hari, or Krsna, and the Lord reveals Himself to such a sincere devotee. No other means, therefore, of spiritual realization is as effective in this age, as chanting the maha-mantra, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Srila Prabhupada: Affection for God-brothers is nice, it is a good sign. Affection for God-brothers as well as for all other living entities, even they are not God-brothers, these signs are seen in the advanced devotees Second is that he makes intimate friendship with his devotee God-brothers or any other devotees Montreal, Quebec My Dear Madhusudana, Please accept my blessings. I thank you very much for your letter of July 17, and of July 25, 1968, and have noted the contents carefully. Yes, by keeping engaged in Krishna Consciousness activities we can keep out of Maya’s clutches, and there are so many nice engagements, as you have stated. By your sincerity and service attitude you are making good progress; by your letter it is shown. Regarding your question about the picture of Lord Caitanya with six arms: This form was shown to Ramananda Roy, and Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya. This is called Sadbhuja Murti. This Sadbhuja Murti is worshipped also by the devotees of Lord Caitanya, and especially the Murti is situated in the temple of Jagannatha Puri. Sometimes when you may go to India and visit the temple of Jagannatha, you will find this Murti. Affection for God-brothers is nice, it is a good sign. Affection for God-brothers as well as for all other living entities, even they are not God-brothers, these signs are seen in the advanced devotees. There are three kinds of devotees: The lower grade devotees, they have high regard for the Deity in the temple, but not very much regard for devotees or people in general. The second grade devotee takes compassion with innocent non-devotees. In that stage, he has got 4 kinds of vision. One is that he always keeps Krishna as the most Lovable Object, second is that he makes intimate friendship with his devotee God-brothers or any other devotees, third is that he takes compassion with innocent non-devotees, and tries to convince them about the importance of Krishna Consciousness, and fourth is that he does not take any serious interest for the atheist class of men. The first grade devotee, of course, sees everyone in relationship with Krishna and as such, he makes no distinction between a devotee or non-devotee. His vision is high grade, because he sees that everyone is engaged in Krishna’s service directly or indirectly. This position of high-grade devotee should never be imitated. It was possible only in Lord Caitanya or Lord Nityananda, or Haridasa Thakura. Thakura Haridasa was so powerful that he could convert even a harlot. But we should not try to imitate Haridasa Thakura or Lord Caitanya. Our position is in the second grade platform. We should not be satisfied remaining in the third grade platform. But we should try to elevate ourselves in the second grade platform. So far the first grade platform is concerned, it is not attained by our endeavor, but it is possible when we have full Grace of Krishna. It completely depends on the causeless Mercy of Krishna. Subhadra is yogamaya. The spiritual energy is called yogamaya. And she has 16 different expansions. Out of these 16 expansions, Subhadra is one. The mahamaya of the material energy is also expansion of the energy of yogamaya; and both yogamaya and mahamaya are equally important to Krishna as much as any government department is equally important for functioning of the government. The police department may be horrible for the criminals, but to the government it is a department as good as university department. Similarly, mahamaya is horrible to the conditioned soul, but to the liberated soul, there is no fear of mahamaya, because he is protected by yogamaya. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita when Krishna said the following: “I am not visible to everyone on account of being curtained by yogamaya.” So when a conditioned soul surrenders unto Krishna, the yogamaya winds up the curtain and Krishna is visible to the devotee. Hoping you are all well. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Seeker BY: JAGABANDHU DASA Mar 14, FORT WHITE, FLORIDA (SUN) — Lord Krishna encourages all souls for all time to learn the Truth by approaching a self-realized soul, who may then act as a Spiritual Master and thereby impart Transcendental Wisdom to the sincere seeker. The Supreme Lord also particularly encourages the sincere seeker with the Transcendental Information that He will guide them from within to the capable tutelage of such a Teacher. This is the eternal system of genuine transference of actual Divine Knowledge -- sincere seekers becoming positively influenced to implement personal individual internal transformation by the capable guidance and learned lessons of self-realized souls who may teach their pupils how to follow the Lord of the Heart from within themselves. Regardless of apparent external ecclesiastical affiliation. For a materially conditioned jiva, the first priority is to genuinely become a sincere seeker, and the Supreme Lord promises His Perfect Internal Guidance. Really, believing the Supreme Lord's promise requires True Faith on the part of the real soul-searcher. If I am not a sincere seeker, the Lord will not lead me to a Real Teacher. Throughout all the Scriptures and expressions of the great spiritual thinkers of antiquity, primary emphasis is placed on actual internal understanding/self-realization of Divine Love and not on achieving a formal/official connection with someone who might be self-realized. And the Scriptures are replete with descriptions of the symptoms and behavior of the genuinely self-realized so that sincere seekers may not be deceived by the mundane antics of false teachers and their sycophantic flocks. Such pseudo-spiritual leadership is an insult to all sincere seekers for all time and should be considered in the same manner as a false sampradaya. A great offense to the True Preceptorial Lineage. Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Flawlessly Immortalizes Real Krishna Consciousness in His Eight Beautiful Precepts wherein in He emphasizes the Holy Name, sincere humility and Ultimate Divine Love. His Self-Effulgent Sincere Succession are naturally consumed with the realization of this essential wisdom which They are then able to convey without pretense to sincere seekers of perpetuity. However, actual self-realization remains a voluntary subjective internal process dependant upon the student as the real Teacher cannot force genuine Transcendental understanding upon the hopeful worthy recipient. Because of individual liberty and free will. Same as it ever was. Please consider the Beautiful Super-excellent commentary by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila, Chapter 15, Verse 111, as follows: "Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur comments that serving Vaishnavas is most important for householders. Whether a Vaishnava is properly initiated is not a subject for consideration. One may be initiated and yet contaminated by the Mayavada philosophy, but a person who chants the Holy Name of the Lord offenselessly will not be so contaminated. A properly initiated Vaishnava may be imperfect, but one who chants the Holy Name of the Lord offenselessly is all-perfect. Although he may apparently be a neophyte, he still has to be considered a pure unalloyed Vaishnava. It is the duty of the householder to offer respects to such an unalloyed Vaishnava. This is Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's instruction." As ever, the only solution to the problem of spiritual leadership is for actual self-realized souls to unofficially manifest Themselves in order to circumvent the apparent plethora of ideological delusions and confusions, or to borrow from the vernacular of Srila Saraswati Thakur, as he so boldly expresses in his gorgeous treatise on "Organized Religion": "The effective silencing of the whole race of pseudo-teachers of religion is the first clear indication of the Appearance of the Absolute on the mundane plane. The bona-fide teacher of the Absolute, heralds the Advent of Krishna by his uncompromising campaign against the pseudo-teachers of religion."

Hello, Living Soul BY: CHITRAKETU DAS Mar 14, UK (SUN) — When we approach doctrines that have been established by ISKCON GBC authority, we have to consider not whether this is sastrically correct, but what political expediency this doctrine serves. Although the early Christians happily believed in reincarnation, their church leaders felt that the doctrine of reincarnation gave believers too much scope and thereby lessened the urgency of the church message. If you don’t actually go straight to hell forever at the end of this life, unless you are redeemed by church intervention, but have the facility of trying again or making further improvement on your spiritual lot in another incarnation, perhaps that would tend to make people lazy about redemption and thus reduce the impact of church propaganda, that they need the church to save their souls. Maybe, even, the sale of official pardons would drop off. What political purpose, then, does the doctrine that the soul falls directly from Vaikuntha serve? Many psychologists believe that all doctrines, being essentially man-made entities, can be explained with regard to motive, pragmatically so to speak, independently of any concern regarding their ontological validity or invalidity. Basically, what that means is: we don’t know where the jiva comes from, and neither does the GBC, but they have their own particular motives for forcing their opinions onto us. I have read Paradise Lost in college and know that Prabhupada was fully aware of its contents, probably having studied it himself, and the account of the fall of man in Genesis is so short it takes only a minute or two to peruse it. Knowing that these concepts underlie our western psyches, no doubt he called up the imagery as well as the vocabulary associated with it in his preaching. It should be noted, however, that although Lucifer falls from Heaven, Adam and Eve fall from an intermediary state between Heaven and Hell (which is Lucifer’s abode), namely the place of innocence known as Eden. Why should it be expedient for the GBC to thump so hard on an issue that, it seems, Prabhupada was ambiguous about, or certainly, may I say, somewhat imprecise about? I think we have all come to realize by now that the GBC is not a body of brahmanas genuinely inquisitive about philosophical conclusions, but rather a class of despots, kshatriyas who are not guided by brahmanas, who are ever ready to impose by force the conclusions they deem expedient. This is so true about the jiva issue, which, it would seem from a purely pragmatic point of view, has no impact on our devotional lives: what does it matter if the soul falls from Vaikuntha or doesn’t? I might add that if it does indeed fall from Vaikuntha, it could only ever do so once, since Lord Krishna promises in the Bhagavad-gita that once you return to that transcendental abode, you never come back here. I suppose it’s a point of fascination, since our philosophy seems to present neat explanations for just about everything else. The problem with neat explanations is that they engender complacency in those who feel that they have encompassed them. Like we know that the soul is an eternal servant of Krishna, that I’m not this body and my life isn’t meant for sense gratification like the hogs and dogs, but is meant for spiritual enquiry leading to liberation (through devotional service), but what a struggle we, or I, have in properly assimilating that! I think that Srila Prabhupada was stressing on the point of Free Will, unlike Calvinists or those who believe in predestination, that everything is already decided and is unchangeable. In this attempt to make this point, he didn’t find it expedient (even Prabhupada has a sense of expedience!) to elaborate further, maybe feeling that it was a difficult area better left alone for now, as he did with other areas such as Raganuga Bhakti, Siddha Pranali and such like. Being extremely immature children in the devotional line (does anyone care to dispute this?), Prabhupada didn’t see fit to teach us the Algebra or higher science for now. “Better that they get the basics right; fill in the details later.” I leave it to your imagination to construe the possible motives of the G.B.C. for forcing their fabricated doctrines upon us, except to add that ironically so many of their members have fallen from Vaikuntha directly, even after enjoying the plenary powers of godhood, after investing themselves with the divine rights of ecclesiastical kings. From right by the altar of God they have fallen, whereas we, their minions, have no doubt materialized out of the non-differentiated brahmajyoti. Here’s an excerpt from Paradise Lost. Satan descends onto Earth to begin his attempt to seduce innocent man to his side: "O For that warning voice, which he who saw the Apocalypse, heard cry in Heaven aloud, then when the Dragon, put to second rout, came furious down to be revenged on men, woe to the inhabitants on Earth! that now, while time was, our first-Parents had been warned the coming of their secret foe, and escaped haply so escaped his mortal snare; for now Satan, now first inflamed with rage, came down, the Tempter ere the Accuser of mankind, to wreck on innocent frail man his loss of that first battle, and his flight to Hell: yet not rejoicing in his speed, though bold, far off and fearless, nor with cause to boast, begins his dire attempt, which nigh the birth now rolling, boils in his tumultuous breast, and like a devilish engine back recoils upon himself; horror and doubt distract his troubled thoughts, and from the bottom stir the Hell within him, for within him Hell he brings, and round about him, nor from Hell one step no more than from himself can fly by change of place: Now conscience wakes despair that slumbered, wakes the bitter memory of what he was, what is, and what must be worse; of worse deeds worse sufferings must ensue. Sometimes towards Eden which now in his view lay pleasant, his grieved look he fixes sad, sometimes towards Heaven and the full-blazing Sun, which now sat high in his meridian tower: then much revolving, thus in sighs began: “O thou that with surpassing glory crowned, lookst from thy sole dominion like the god of this new world; at whose sight all the stars hide their diminished heads; to thee I call, but with no friendly voice, and add thy name, O Sun, to tell thee how I hate thy beams that bring to my remembrance from what state I fell, how glorious once above thy sphere; till pride and worse ambition threw me down warring in Heaven against Heaven’s matchless King: Ah wherefore! he deserved no such return from me, whom he created what I was in that bright eminence, and with his good upbraided none; nor was his service hard. What could be less than to afford him praise, the easiest recompense, and pay him thanks, how due! yet all his good proved ill in me, and wrought but malice; lifted up so high I disdained subjection, and thought one step higher would set me highest, and in a moment quit the debt immense of endless gratitude, so burdensome, still paying, still to owe; forgetful what from him I still received, and understood not that a grateful mind by owing owes not, but still pays, at once endebted and discharged; what burden then? O had his powerful destiny ordained me some inferior angel, I had stood then happy; no unbounded hope had raised ambition. Yet why not? Some other power as great might have aspired, and me though mean drawn to his part; but other powers as great fell not, but stand unshaken, from within or from without, to all temptations armed. Hadst thou the same free will and power to stand? Thou hadst: whom hast thou then or what to accuse, but Heaven's free love dealt equally to all? Be then his love accursed, since love or hate, to me alike, it deals eternal woe. Nay cursed be thou; since against his thy will chose freely what it now so justly rues. Me miserable! Which way shall I fly infinite wrath, and infinite despair? Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell; and in the lowest deep a lower deep still threatening to devour me opens wide, to which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven. O then at last relent: is there no place left for repentance, none for pardon left? None left but by submission; and that word disdain forbids me, and my dread of shame among the Spirits beneath, whom I seduced with other promises and other vaunts than to submit, boasting I could subdue the Omnipotent. Aye me, they little know how dearly I abide that boast so vain, under what torments inwardly I groan: While they adore me on the throne of Hell, with diadem and sceptre high advanced the lower still I fall, only supreme in misery; such joy ambition finds. But say I could repent and could obtain by act of grace my former state; how soon would height recall high thoughts, how soon unsay what feigned submission swore: ease would recant vows made in pain, as violent and void. For never can true reconcilement grow where wounds of deadly hate have peirced so deep: which would but lead me to a worse relapse and heavier fall: so should I purchase dear short intermission bought with double smart. This knows my punisher; therefore as far from granting he, as I from begging peace: All hope excluded thus, behold instead of us outcast, exiled, his new delight, mankind created, and for him this world. So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear, farewell remorse: all good to me is lost; evil be thou my good; by thee at least divided empire with Heaven's King I hold by thee, and more than half perhaps will reign; as man ere long, and this new world shall know.” Prabhupada uses words like “rebellious” often in his preaching style, words which strangely occur nowhere in the Vedas. The living soul is defined as being victimised by avidya, or as being bahir-mukha, externally directed, namely away from antaryami, but never is the jiva described as being rebellious as such. Not being a widely read scholar, I stand to be corrected, but no verse or sloka that I know of describes the soul as rebellious: fallen, yes, foolish, yes, entrapped, illusioned, etc. but the idea of rebellion occurs in Prabupada’s purports, not in the texts themselves. Why should that be? You have to ask Prabhupada! I think it is not an unintelligent supposition to assume that Prabhupada has been appealing to our psychological archetypes. Looking up “rebellion” in my Veda base, this is the only text I found with the word in it: In the sixteenth incarnation of the Godhead, the Lord [as Bhrgupati] annihilated the administrative class [ksatriyas] twenty-one times, being angry with them because of their rebellion against the brahmanas [the intelligent class]. PURPORT The ksatriyas, or the administrative class of men, are expected to rule the planet by the direction of the intelligent class of men, who give direction to the rulers in terms of the standard sastras, or the books of revealed knowledge. The rulers carry on the administration according to that direction. Whenever there is disobedience on the part of the ksatriyas, or the administrative class, against the orders of the learned and intelligent brahmanas, the administrators are removed by force from their posts, and arrangement is made for better administration. OM TAT SAT

Omniscient Dealings BY: TAMOHARADASA (ACBSP) Mar 14, MONTREAL, CANADA (SUN) — A few weeks back the question of devotee omniscience arose, in that case in regards to debate as to whether such was possible, or not, and whether Srila Prabhupada had such. I recently came across a mention in the Nityananda Caritamrta of Vrndavana Dasa Thakura, as translated by one Isvara dasa. Within, it describes how, on their way from Puri to Bengal for preaching, by Mahaprabhu's instructions, Nityananda Prabhu empowered several close associates with omniscience, as well as the ability to bestow love of God, just as He himself can. The specific word used was omniscience. I am therefore assuming a correct translation. When we consider the Lords pastimes, we will note that, although Godhead, He pretty much sticks to the immediate surroundings in terms of omniscient dealings, ie., we do not regularly hear of goings-on in other universes, for example, while the pastime is going on here. So, as is usual, Krsna primarily acts or reveals to our sensation and best knowledge within the context of the particular location and pastimes. We know that the jiva is an article of the Absolute: isavasyam idam sarvam … etc By reasoning, therefore, we can conclude that a particle of the absolute is also absolute. However, it is typical that the surrendered jiva is under control of the Lords Urjva potency of engagement in pastimes, a power of yoga maya. It stands to reason, therefore, that omniscience for a pure soul is as according to that bestowed by the Lords will, just as according to the rasa of the pastimes. Thus, there will be varying degrees of omniscience. It is not that, for example, an omniscient awareness of molecules bumping in universe X has any relevance to bestowing love of God upon soul XYZ being blessed within Lord Nityananda's eternal pastimes currently going on in universe Y. We can thus reasonably infer that omniscience is bestowed according to the pastime needs, and that the degree and extent is controlled and bestowed by the all powerful and all perfect Godhead JUST AS IS NEEDED, and that this is a limited degree of omniscience. There will be categories and degrees of this omniscience. Many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, etc. will have experience of Srila Prabhupada appearing in dreams to give instruction, or during his manifest presence of answering unasked questions quite specifically, while looking directly at one during classes, as if he had direct access via Supersoul to the disciple's heart and question. This is evidence in support of my thesis. Any comments? Thank you. Hare Krsna.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

Swami B. V. Tripurari

Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura VAIDHI-BHAKTI IS NITYA NOT NAIMITTIKA Chapt. Five

I don't believe that in a Gaudiya Vaisnava discussion, the topic of the origin of the soul is inherently inappropriate or wrong. It is the Vaisnava aparadha that is wrong. I think that clarification is necessary between the two.

But the question of the characters of particular sannyasis will raise a red flag to their disciples and then we will only have charges and counter charges. Now why don't we get back to something philosophical that we can discuss no matter what are our allegences. Why is saying that the soul manifests in the brahmajyoti inherently impersonal? And in this context what do you really mean by impersonal? And for the sake of a rational discussion, set aside your attacks on non-ISKCON Maharajas.

Scared to become a devotee By Jatayu dasa (SDG) A long, long time ago when I was not an ISKCON devotee I developed a growing interest in spiritual life. After many years of taking drugs and attending rock concerts I had become sick of life. I had been manager in several companies I worked for, most of the time I had more money than I needed and I had freedom and independence. Somehow I was not satisfied. I started wondering if real happiness existed. I discovered that no matter how hard I tried I just could not break free from certain activities. I was looking for real freedom; freedom from the unseen forces that drove me to seek out all those things people said would make me happy but in truth bound me with chains. I was confused, where do I turn now? Then one day I had the courage to admit to myself that, with all these desirable things, I was not happy. This was the first scary thing, to admit I was not happy. Then, my life began to change. Again, I became scared because I didn’t really know where I was going. All I knew was I didn’t want to be where I was. I was haunted by a thousand fears, what should I do now, will I have money? Will I have friends? Will I be cared for? And on and on. So I started to read. First it was science, then psychology, and then self help. It didn’t fit. I was scared again, where do I go? So I tried eastern philosophy. Now, heres something. I read more and learned a lot. I learned drugs were bad, so I stopped. As a result I lost 85% of my friends, and then I got really scared; but excited. If they were really my friends then they would support me to improve my life. So I took another step. I learned that happiness was not found in women, TV, eating dead animals or in reading numerous books. I gave it up, even though I was scared. Then I learned happiness was not found in rock and roll. This is going too far I thought, so I held on. But in the mean time my life had changed direction a dozen times and I had to admit that I was finding a wonderful sense of freedom from all the things that I thought gave me happiness. I was not doing many of these things and I was still alive. And in many ways becoming happy. But still I knew I had to go further. There was something deep inside that wasn’t being fulfilled. I began to practice Hatha Yoga. Amazing things happened. I became strong both mentally and physically. I was more alert, I felt alive. But, deep inside a voice cried out for more. Then I met the devotees. Now I was scared. I had seen them before but did not take them serious. Now I was attracted but I turned away. Again I saw them and again I was scared, but of what. It was independence. What was so great about independence? I made all my own decisions, I was my own man, but I was also unhappy. I wanted to break away completely from the material world. I wanted God in my life. I want to try it, I thought. But what if I failed? What will I have to give up? I was really scared now. I will have to give up rock and roll and I will have to follow rules and regulations. But deep down inside, my hearts said try it. Scared I was but I took a few steps. And wow, it worked, kind of. I didn’t become a saint and I didn’t see the white light but I did begin to feel an inner peace. I took another step and fell down. And it hurt. I took another step and fell down. What now? I tried again and started to walk. I began to realize that Krsna was everywhere, even in my own life. I began to understand that Krsna was a person and that I had a relationship with Him, a loving relationship that was eternal. I was actually becoming happy. Sometimes even tears of joy came to my eyes. I even gave up rock and roll, and I survived. Today, I’m still scared but I keep taking those next steps. I still fall down and I still get back up. I’m succeeding in spiritual life. But I did not do it alone. I always found the greatest source of strength from my devotee friends. Of course, I had to reach out to them; they could not read my mind. I had to ask for help. This too I had to learn. I had to ask the right questions and when I got the answers I acted on that knowledge. Over the years I matured, my vision to continue comes from reading Srila Prabhupada’s books, my encouragement comes from seeing devotees around me work hard and succeed and my goal remains clear by humbly serving Radha Gopinatha the best way I can. Being scared is natural for all living entities when they are put into uncertain circumstances. But when we come to realize that Krsna is our best friend and that His love for us is eternal then there is nothing in this world that is fearful. He loves us, not like our love for each other but real love, a kind of love that has no comparison in our life. And when this love touches us we will not be scared to take the next step. I am scared of death but Krsna will defeat that for me simply by the sound of His name. And when I wake up in the spiritual world there will be no more pain, nor suffering, nor fear, just eternality, knowledge and bliss, like the scriptures have told me all along. I thought that life in the material world was bad, actually its life in material consciousness that is bad. All of us go through these changes to some degree or another. We have learned that Krsna consciousness is a collective process as well as an individual process. We can see that Krsna consciousness is not otherworldly or abstract but is very down to earth, natural and real. Our lives in the material world will go on, raising children, working a job, caring for friends. But when we add Krsna to our lives then life finally has a real purpose. Life becomes meaningful and we can become happy. We just have to be willing to take the next step.

Oh by the way, you never answered this question. Since you can't, then you tried to turn the argument into ad hominem rant. This only works on foolish people.

That's a rhetorical question put forth by Narayana Maharaja which he has laced with sarcasm towards those who define Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the hidden avatar of Kali Yuga who only preaches the Yuga Dharma, Hare Nama. But actually the anarpita carim cirat verse of Caitanya Caritamrta shows that in this special Kali yuga, this Mahaprabhu who is Radha and Govinda combined comes to give something much higher and rarely ever given. In other words those who ignore this distiction really in a sense are worshiping Mahaprabhu as Gaura Narayana. That Gaura Narayana is an avatar of Maha Visnu but the Gaurachandra of this Kali Yuga is actually the avatari or source of all incarnations. It is not Narayana Maharaja who thinks that Srila Prabhupada was actually not a servant of Krsna, but actually those dullards who do not understand and actually oppose the inner identity and purpose of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu given to the world though Srila Rupa Goswami. The first symptom of such foolishness is to blaspheme Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers and their disciples. I guess that Australian Rules Football toughened you up to be a bull in a china shop.