talasiga

A mukta is someone who is liberated to a point Where no defintions will fit him/her. (Ahem ! Such is my definition ! OOps )

Valaya: Concerning equilibrium though, according to my own limited understanding and painful/pleasureable personal experiences, there simply is no `balance` in LOVE. Satyaraj: Now we are trying to describe a kind of experience that sruti classifies as ‘ananda.’ One may translate it as ‘bliss’ and that kind of ‘love’ that you are referring to is actually a limb of that bliss that may be also called ‘prema’ by Gaudiyas. Concerning the equilibrium, that ananda is also part of the Ultimate Reality among with sat and cit. So, existence, knowledge and bliss are the components of that Ultimate Reality, that I prefer to call Hari, that are always in an Absolute equilibrium. Talasiga: When Valaya speaks of a Love which has no balance, which is beyond equilibrium, surely it insinuates a wholeness beyond which nothing exists: that is, if nothing can exist outside it, nothing can balance it or unbalance it, for all is within it. It is not relative, but Absolute. That Love is beyond description - therefore the "neti neti" not this, not this) of Vedaanta. However the experience of It by humanity can be described as "sat-chid-aanand" - "being consciousness bliss" or "existence knowing bliss" and the most comprehensive experience of that Love obtains the description "sat-chid-aanand-vigraha" or "existence knowing bliss with form" (IE existence knowing bliss in differentiation). Therefore one may discern that Love is not just a characteristic of some Absolute. It is the very nature of the Absolute. Love is not an aspect of bliss (aanand) but its raison d'etre itself. Bliss is the result of the existential consciousness of Love.

Can Suryaz prove otherwise ?

You have given a definition of the soul as eternally conscious lifegiving essence but giving definitions can be seen to be simply skirting the issue. For instance, if this definition is acceptable then the question, Who is the soul of Radha ? must become What/Who is the eternally conscious lifegiving essence of Radha ? Now we are back again at the more fundamental threshold question, What is the eternally conscious lifegiving essence ? - are you going to answer circuituously that "it is the soul" ? ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-09-2001).]

For me, most of what you write makes sense. Sometimes I may not agree with you and at times your sentiments may burst the holding capacity of the thread, but generally your comments come across to me as thoughtful, sincere and written with care. On the question: "who is the soul of Radha ?" I would have thought that, before we venture with that, a more fundamental question, which must first be answered, is, "Who (or, What) is the soul ?" ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-08-2001).]

Talasiga: On this inquiry it may be helpful to refer to the preliminary peace mantra in the Eeshaa Upanishad (Om poornamadah poornamidam......) which turns on the intuition of the Absolute being always Absolute despite absolute derivations. Satyaraj: By following the reasoning above, the Ferry, the Ferryman and Radha are Absolute in spite of absolute derivations. As, “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes,” isn’t sayujiya itself a constant game of to leave, to remember and to reach? Valaya: Absolutely!...I think... Talasiga: Yes, I mean, who would engage in the ecstasy of remembrance when the one who is to be remembered is within presence ? Does not rememberance require separation, if not <u>actual</u>, then, at least <u>apparent</u> ? IMPLICATION 8: Is the Ferry circling at the One Dock As the Dancer spins at the One Shrine ? ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

Satyaraj: “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes.” Not only great landings, but even great seaings. Someone once has waited for Hari for many Kalpas into the bottom of the sea only to fight with Him! He did known that Hari has already hidden into his heart. The most amazing point is that he was killed by Hari! How could Hari kill him and at the same time remain into his heart forever? Was He already there and ready to leave? Talasiga: Yes, let us look at at Mundak Upanishad 2:2:4 "Om - the mystic syllable - is the bow; the self within, the arrow; and Brahman, the target. One should hit that mark with an undistracted mind, and like the arrow, become one with It." (Swami Sarvananda translation, Sri Ramakrishna Math, ISBN 81-7120-159-8) We already know that Om is the Brahman but here, if we accept this mantra, Om is the bow and Brahman the target. Just like your questions we may also ask, "How can Hari be the bow and also always the target ? Is He already in the bow ready to leave it ?" On this inquiry it may be helpful to refer to the preliminary peace mantra in the Eeshaa Upanishad (Om poornamadah poornamidam......) which turns on the intuition of the Absolute being always Absolute despite absolute derivations. In this way, on a lighter note, we may also come to: IMPLICATION 7:- The Ferryman does Leave her to remember her to reach her. ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-07-2001).]

from thread http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000641.html "When you are slandered..... pray to God for them." St. John of Kronstadt. ______________________________ PRAYER 8 Praise Mountain of Mercy ! Grant that I may always Forgive the world For I could never forgive You ! . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

Yes, see John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich:- http://lycos.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0843428.html

Satyaraj: This Waitress can give us poison! Talasiga: Yes ! However, methinks, poison in a homeopathic dose ..... Satyaraj: Won’t it be a romantic end, or a funny beginning? Talasiga: Indeed ! On the question of endings and beginnings, please consider:- IMPLICATION 6: However great our landing She is already there Ready to leave it ! ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

There is a shorter, simpler and more basic, question in this. Why not ask that first ? . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

The whole sentence was: "One wonders why the need to establish Mahaprabhu's divinity or to decline it." This TURNS on the ISSUE of the RELEVANCE of his divinity or lack of divinity to our spiritual life given that:- "......one may note that nowhere in His Sheekshaashtakam does Mahaprabhu state that recognising his divinity is a requisite for sucessfully chanting the Holy Name or generally embracing the devotional path. (Nor does He state that ascertaining any lack of his divinity is a requisite either)." ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-05-2001).]

Yes, even the poems of Vedaanta (meaning "the end of knowledge") are not a systematic theology to raise a philosophy but shrooti-s to disprove what we know to bring to an end our weight of knowledge Ananta Harih Om Tat Sat and Good Night Friends ..... ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

Yes some here will have a readymade textbook answer to your question. Let us prefer to relish it without quotations this poem of a question. . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

Talasiga: One wonders why the need to establish Mahaprabhu's divinity or to decline it. Shvu: In one word, politics. Talasiga: So as you are declining his divinity, according to your own response as above, your position is also "political". Q.E.D. . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

Hari is not obliged to do anything or not to do anything

Satyaraj: This Hari is not attained by the efforts of my mind and intelligence, but due His own free will, that we may call His Grace. Is this your Radha? Talasiga: Accepted in the right mood, what a haunting question ! Thank you. In return, I offer the following for your consideration ................. IMPLICATION 5: After the crossing over the water Will the Waitress quench our thirst ? Or will she greet our safest passage By drowning us all with her tears ? . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

This is a beautifully broad summary. Also, one may note that nowhere in His Sheekshaashtakam does Mahaprabhu state that recognising his divinity is a requisite for sucessfully chanting the Holy Name or generally embracing the devotional path. (Nor does He state that ascertaining any lack of his divinity is a requisite either). One wonders why the need to establish Mahaprabhu's divinity or to decline it. In light of this, surely, any divinity that a close and loving devotee may sense, intuit or realise must be a wholly private matter between the intimate devotee and his Lord and not at all relevant for the public promotion of His Mission. ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-04-2001).]

Prayer 7 Home of the homeless Oh My Heart ! When will you host the Greatest Abode ? (see also: http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000019,html ) ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-02-2001).]

Dear Satyaraja I am delighted to see you exloring in this way ! Please apply this approach to your own earlier statements: " Yes, those experiences and realizations will ferry us to another shore. Will my Hari be there? My heart is longing to meet Him face to face!!!" (<u>Satyaraja posting 7 July 4:24Am</u>) So, I actually find your statements very truthful, as the ferry of your "experiences and realizations" (as you say) may find an uncertainty about Hari (as you ask, "Will my Hari be there?") created by your mind and intellect, but not Hari... [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-02-2001).]

IMPLICATION 4: The Ferryman plies His vessel from Devotion to Devotion The traveller need have no goal but to relish present Company. ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-01-2001).]

!!! compare with:- "It is said that some humans can see the aura. As I cannot, it is clear that I am not a human." Animesh, is this what is called a "false syllogism" ?

Yes, they hear the world ringing But do they answer it ? Methinks, they are otherwise Engaged..... ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

Yes So many will argue about it None may argue with it The glorious moon rises in silence The oceans do sigh in wonder The sands on the shore are singing Do you hear the world ringing ? . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com

No no no - He is intersted in the Sanskrit and then the discussion..... ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-01-2001).]