Samia

The best response is Hare Krishna and God Bless. Leave them with a book and your most honest best wishes and move on to someone who may be more interested in discussing as opposed to claiming the ultimate faith. As with alot of hardliners anything you do or say will be countered and some may even see your attempts at discussion as an attack. Just my opinion of course.

And for good measure before you question his credentials http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/wie0bio-1 Elie Wiesel was born in the small town of Sighet in Transylvania, where people of different languages and religions have lived side by side for centuries, sometimes peacefully, sometimes in bitter conflict. The region has long been claimed by both Hungary and Romania and, in the 20th century, has changed hands repeatedly, a hostage to the fortunes of war. <!-- render_photo --><TABLE align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Elie Wiesel grew up in the close-knit Jewish community of Sighet. While the family spoke Yiddish at home, they read newspapers and conducted their grocery business in German, Hungarian or Romanian as the occasion demanded. Ukrainian, Russian and other languages were also widely spoken in the town. Elie began religious studies in classical Hebrew almost as soon as he could speak. The young boy's life centered entirely on his religious studies. He loved the mystical tradition and folk tales of the Hassidic sect of Judaism, to which his mother's family belonged. His father, though religious, encouraged the boy to study the modern Hebrew language and concentrate on his secular studies. The first years of World War II left Sighet relatively untouched. Although the village changed hands from Romania to Hungary, the Wiesel family believed they were safe from the persecutions suffered by Jews in Germany and Poland. The secure world of Wiesel's childhood ended abruptly with the arrival of the Nazis in Sighet in 1944. The Jewish inhabitants of the village were deported en masse to concentration camps in Poland. The 15 year-old boy was separated from his mother and sister immediately on arrival in Auschwitz. He never saw them again. He managed to remain with his father for the next year as they were worked almost to death, starved, beaten, and shuttled from camp to camp on foot, or in open cattle cars, in driving snow, without food, proper shoes, or clothing. In the last months of the war, Wiesel's father succumbed to dysentery, starvation, exhaustion and exposure. <!-- render_photo --><TABLE align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>After the war, the teenaged Wiesel found asylum in France, where he learned for the first time that his two older sisters had survived the war. Wiesel mastered the French language and studied philosophy at the Sorbonne, while supporting himself as a choir master and teacher of Hebrew. He became a professional journalist, writing for newspapers in both France and Israel. For ten years, he observed a self-imposed vow of silence and wrote nothing about his wartime experience. In 1955, at the urging of the Catholic writer Francois Mauriac, he set down his memories in Yiddish, in a 900-page work entitled Un die welt hot geshvign (And the world kept silent). The book was first published in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Wiesel compressed the work into a 127-page French adaptation, La Nuit (Night), but several years passed before he was able to find a publisher for the French or English versions of the work. Even after Wiesel found publishers for the French and English translations, the book sold few copies. In 1956, while he was in New York covering the United Nations, Elie Wiesel was struck by a taxi cab. His injuries confined him to a wheelchair for almost a year. Unable to renew the French document which had allowed him to travel as a "stateless" person, Wiesel applied successfully for American citizenship. Once he recovered, he remained in New York and became a feature writer for the Yiddish-language newspaper, the Jewish Daily Forward (Der forverts ). Wiesel continued to write books in French, including the semi-autobiographical novels L'Aube (Dawn), and Le Jour (translated as The Accident ). In his novel La Ville de la Chance (translated as The Town Beyond the Wall ), Wiesel imagined a return to his home town, a journey he did not undertake in life until after the book was published. <!-- render_photo --><TABLE align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>As these and other books began to win him an international reputation, Wiesel took an increasing interest in the plight of persecuted Jews in the Soviet Union. He first traveled to the USSR in 1965 and reported on his travels in The Jews of Silence. His 1968 account of the Six Day War between Israel and its Arab neighbors appeared in English as A Beggar In Jerusalem . In time, Wiesel was able to use his fame to plead for justice for oppressed peoples in the Soviet Union, South Africa, Vietnam, Biafra and Bangladesh. He has written plays including Zalmen, or the Madness of God and The Trial of God (Le Proces de Shamgorod ). His other novels include The Gates of the Forest, The Oath, The Testament, and The Fifth Son. His essays and short stories are collected in the volumes Legends of Our Time, One Generation After, and A Jew Today. Although Wiesel still writes his books in French, his wife Marion now collaborates with him on their English translation. In 1978, President Jimmy Carter appointed Elie Wiesel Chairman of the United States Holocaust Memorial Council. In 1985 he was awarded the Congressional Medal of Freedom and, in 1986, the Nobel Prize for Peace. The English translation of his memoirs appeared in 1995 as All Rivers Run to the Sea. Since 1976, he has been Andrew Mellon Professor of Humanities at Boston University. He makes his home in New York City with his wife and their son, Elisha. " I think he has some authority to speak on the protocols....

Like someone of Jewish blood can`t speak ill of Jews or do harm to them ? Wow you really are out there aren`t you , perhaps the name Mengele rings a bell. I tell you what since you are so convinced why don`t you go down and offer to sell your local Rabbi a copy of the protocols, depending on your country we may see you free from prison in about 3-10 years Since you seem to be to lazy here are a few links about the protocols. http://ddickerson.igc.org/hitler-protokollen.html http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007058 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion Or how about a Nobel prize winning Jewish scholar. "If ever a piece of writing could produce mass hatred, it is this one. . . . This book is about lies and slander." Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate So are you going to question a Nobel Laureate and WORLD RENOWNED peace activest ? Take my pills and cool down This coming from someone who sees freemasons behind every bush, what a laugh. Love the stealth edits to your post after my reply why the sudden need to change what you said ?

You are correct, by all accounts it has the huge publishing numbers and like you said if it supports someones system of beliefs that makes it popular. All I have been pointing out is that this book has its roots in evil, its origins place it as a tool to dominate a specific group of people. It has been the source and supporting document for the extermination of millions of lives, but some don`t seem to mind that as long as they can attempt to make a point, that is what sickens me.

Once again you fail to provide any supporting evedince and skip the point completely. You want to support anti-semetic writings I guess that is your option, just be honest about it. As far as Prabhupada I am not the one intermixing his quotes with those from hate literature like the protocols, so think about who is insulting in this situation. You are like a small child, when a fact with supporting evidence is pointed out to you that you dont agree with you change the subject and try to put others at fault. I wont waste my time with Makow as he isn`t the one who posted the article here, as for fantasy, well Im not the one who is avoiding the truth. Hallucinating what people post, don`t make me laugh. Care to address the sample of yours I posted, as you noticed I stepped up and stated the facts behind the post of mine you provided so do you have the ability to ?

Wow so skip my point entirely. On that subject though his " source " material is banned in Canada and you can go to prison in several countries for possesion of a copy of the protocols. Clearly as with most of your posts you have failed to do any sufficiant research or real reading. Insulting and offending try pointing out the facts come on , I have left you plenty of opprotunities to prove his source material, defend it since you posted it. 3 years imprisonment for debate LOL and you think America has issues.

Re-read hmm from the beginning of the article .. "Modern education and culture is designed to make us dysfunctional. "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" confirms this." Perhaps you should re-read and while you are at it since you are so quick to defend maybe do some research on his sources, really not too hard to do. As for the article I posted an article that was something that was linked at several sites and seemed fitting to post here since the world events section is lined full of stories of misery from time to time. And yes at that time I had reached a point where shutting things out was a better path for me to take but that story showed the lowest form of life and it really upset me. Perhaps you should examine if your desire for a grand conspiricy blinds you to works of hate, seems you have some sort of mental block in that department, as long as it fits your views it doesn`t seem to matter to you one bit. What is your reality, seeing boogymen around every corner and focusing on every little negative you can find ? Maybe you should shut your browser down for a few minutes and go hit the park for some frisbee, I promise you there wont be a freemason hiding in the bush waiting for you to put your guard down. Seems you have a habit of bad research. http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/world-review/445263-descendants-sitting-bull-crazy-horse-break-away-us.html Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US 2 days ago http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...QyT2LwZc9HyAgA

I am more troubled that someone would post anything relating to the protocols here whats next Mein Kampf ? But I guess as long as it fits your reality the amount of death it lead to is ok ?

Can you not read ? His " sources " of information are all well known hoaxes and tools of hate. To most logical people using made up evidence invalidates any points that may or may not exist. How is pointing out the insanity of his supporting " facts " badmouthing, it is pointing out the obvious. As for beliving in life after death no I dont because the soul is eternal thus no death only a change. No my concern is pointing out falsehoods with people like, him his cited "source" is part of the reason so many people found actions by people like Hitler so acceptable. Just wondering when Bush is gone you still going to have your little " Evil " America obsession still ? It seems you spend so much time " pointing out " Americas faults I have to ask you in your own terms What are your accomplishment to judge America and Bush ?

There is a huge difference between paranoia built on hateful hoax writings and true concern for the worlds condition based on teachings from scripture. There is no comparison to be made between the " Blame the grand Jewish conspiricy " and scriptural truths, they are on opposite ends of reality. If you read just a bit more carefully you may notice I never say the world is anything short of a mess, I just pointed out that using articles from haters is kind of a silly way to validate a point.

While I do agree with the sentiment somewhat , one of my favorite quotes from Bob Marley is " An educated man is an Ignorant man " in regards to the brainwashing at Universities, most credibility is lost once someone delves into proven hoaxes as supporting evidence. The Protocols are are proven hoax and even more laughable are the original authors links to " communist manuals " in other articles that are random geocities websites and other christian web sites. The fact that he doesn`t even cite authentic known communist works shows his paranoia and blind lash out response. Believe me I am about the farthest thing from a pro-communist that can be, but this guys paranoia is laughable.

Back when I was a small child there was a persistant rumor that these Hare Krishnas on Telegraph Avenue gave out " special " cookies. On one of our several trips to there I saw them happily dancing and singing and saw the joy in their faces and was convinced that they were on something very good. We never got the guts to approach them though I believe that our corrupted vision blocked our approach and kept the scene pure. The sight stuck with me and as I aged I found myself on the east coast where I came across Devotees and spent some time talking to them and bought some books that went on my shelf. My final push came by way of Shelter, I have always respected straight edge and hardcore scenes and hearing Ray Cappo sing lit a fire in my heart and rekindled the memories I had of these joyful robed men singing and dancing back on Telegraph .....

I smell a T-shirt A truely inspiring way to descibe it.

While I am no global warming alarmist I do believe that man has a negative impact on the enviroment due to our lifestyles. I do believe we should be visable in this movement though because if nothing else caring for and protecting the enviroment is an act of compassion for your fellow human and other species. In my tiny mind it is an even greater crime to senselessly pollute fish to death than to kill and eat them when hungry. Also if people were not so sickened by the enviroment around them maybe in their health they would find investigating god to be a worthwhile pursuit. Just my tired 2 cents worth

This is a flash file but I know it is out there in several downloadable formats I dont have links on hand though sorry. Srila Prabhupada chants japa http://odeo.com/audio/2056390/view

MSM Exaggerates American Indians Claims of Seceding From USA <SMALL>By Warner Todd Huston | December 21, 2007 - 15:29 ET </SMALL> Sioux Indians "Withdraw From the USA"? Or not! Here is the kind of story that really proves how little the MSM bothers to research things, how they often simply print glorified press releases without doing any real "journalism," and how the defective end product gets picked up and regurgitated like it is suddenly a "fact." In this one we have the story of "the Lakota Sioux Indians" announcing that "they" have withdrawn from agreed upon treaties with the US government and that they are now a sovereign nation, no longer to be called citizens of the USA. Problem is "the Lakota Sioux Indians" that have made this announcement are just an unaffiliated group of Indian activists the leader of whom does not represent the official Lakota tribe leadership! Yet here is the news media reporting this story as if all "the Lakota Sioux Indians" have banded together and quit the union. Take this report from USA Today: Lakota withdraw from treaties, declare independence from U.S The Lakota Sioux Indians, whose ancestors include Sitting Bull, Red Cloud and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from all treaties their forefathers signed with the U.S. government and have declared their independence. A delegation delivered the news to the State Department earlier this week. Wow, it sounds momentous, alright. But, who says that "the Lakota Sioux Indians" have abandoned their treaties? "We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us," said Russell Means, a longtime Indian rights activist. "This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically Article 6 of the Constitution," which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land. And who is the Russell Means? He is a long time Indian activist who does not officially represent any tribe, that's who. It takes the local press to make this clear. The Rapid City Journal of Rapid City, South Dakota informs us that, "Means' group is based in Porcupine on Pine Ridge Indian Reservation," and that "it is not an agency or branch of the Oglala Sioux Tribe. Means ran unsuccessfully for president of the tribe in 2006." Yet in report after report, this Means character is presented as if he is "the Lakota Sioux" when, in truth, all he really is is A Lakota Sioux -- not a representative of all of them. He does not represent American Indians except as a tangential, activist. He has no authority to make this "declaration of Independence" for the Lakota or any other American Indian tribe. It turns out that these reports are nearly all just a rehash of Russell Means’ press releases and not based on any real reporting at all. And here is the worst part. The bulk of the news outlets that have picked up this story are foreign press agencies like the Agence Presse France, The Telegraph, and Radio Netherlands, all of whom presented this as if it was somehow legal and binding instead of an activist's scheming. So, since this story wasn't reported correctly, foreigners are imagining that all American Indians are trying to leave the USA and become a new nation. The truth is less shocking, that Russell Means does not represent "the Lakota Sioux Indians" at all.

All you have brought here is anti-capitalism bile so where is the difference ? I have told you time and time again what it takes to make the world a better place but I guess the concept doesn`t give you the gratification or attention you so seem to need. All it takes to change anything is to stop talking and start doing, is that really too deep a concept for you to get ? Yea I bite back because I doubt you really are doing anything other that trying to spread socialist dreck. Are you really that desperate for attention or that fearful of breaking a sweat ?

Just because someone doesn`t buy the garbage banner wavers spew in no way indicates a lack of education in the subject. A half a day at bound together and anyone could pick up 99% of your arguments being recycled here its not like any of it is a part of some amazing new discovery. The same mantra is repeated day in and day out by the little chomskybots that plauge any coffeeshop on the west coast. The same slogans are recycled by postcard punks at most shows since the early 80s. Bring something new to the table then I might just act suprised. Helped anyone yet ? I won`t hold my breath.

Funny you mention this theist I was just reading something about Children of God the other day, about the now leaders son who killed her secretary then himself after growing up in the church with molestation and incest abuse. Their process was called flirty fishing and eventually they progressed to just flat out promises of and actual sex to recruit. It is a slippery slope to use any form of false enticement and objectifying young girls hardly strikes me a a proper thing to do.

I listen quite well and have read all the posts, you think with the people I know I haven`t heard a great chunk of what you have said before ? I have listened to everything you have said and as obvious by your avoiding key issues and tossing accusations my way you haven`t listened to what I have said all along or maybe the concept is just to frightening to you. You want to blame systems and believe in systems as a vehicle for change and I call BS on it because no system created by man can change what resides in the hearts of men. Capatilism has killed but so has your precious socialism. The only true force of change is action ( sorry waving a banner doesn`t count as action ) If people are hungry FEED THEM ! If people need shelter BUILD IT ! Marching is nothing more than sense gratification without true action. Really I could care less if you went away, I just have this little spark of hope though that maybe something I say will sink in and you will take your passion and do something useful with it then maybe folks would take you a bit more seriously as well. Come on I dare you to take 2 hours of your time a week to do SOMETHING. Doesn`t even have to be to difficult, pick up trash, or plant some plants in a poorer neighborhood see what sort of response you get then. If thats too tough do some door to door for your local foodbank or go tutor at a youth center for a bit.

1. I have no need to create multiple accounts to state my opinion, I am and have always been Samia my choppy grammer is pretty easy to pick out so using different names would be quite silly. 2. I never think about what I am going to say to anyone, that much again should be obvious by my posts. I have yet to be hit by anyone but then again most of the people I run with and encounter are passionate and not extremists. Most of the Anarchists I know are really quite reasonable and just consider me misguided but they respect the fact that I dont pretend or hide who I am or what I believe. 3. Ah the failsafe of your just predjice, you know there really should be an internet / real life rule like Godwins law if you know what I mean Tell me, for which vulnerable groups do I have predjudice ? I personaly can think of two neither really fall under vulnerable, Banner wavers and yes I do tend to distrust Muslims. Before you step up on your pious platform though I know for a fact that they distrust I feel for Muslims is the same attitude ALOT of socialists have twords Christians so worry about your own backyard first

I wish her no bad and I am sorry I posted the PM but I felt everyone who has viewed this thread had the right to see what type of person this was. Extremist is a fitting word as she had no room for anyone that fit her narrow world view, the funny thing is that even though I am very right leaning I still get a ton of respect from alot of left leaners as I have worked beside them on community projects. One of my best friends in California is a lifelong anarchist who grew up in the UK on the streets with Class War and other groups but we email and talk all the time with no animosity whatsoever. I also have friends that I made years ago from Positive Force back in DC that respect my beliefs and I theirs mainly due to the fact once again of community involvement. Right or left is just a label, your actions are what make up your soul and she was just a unimportant little banner waver.

I hate noone because I understand what the human condition is. I am not a coward that hides behind slogans blaming systems for mans misdeeds. I actually spend my time working with and helping people that need it, and since I asked several times to no avail I assume that you don`t. As with most " socialists " you simply are walking around proud of your little look at me Che t-shirts but doing not much else. So I pose this question again besides march and carry neat little signs what have you done for your fellow human lately ? Cook any meals, help anyone displaced by weather, build a community center/book trade ? Didn`t think so.......

So the world was a cheerful and there were butterflies and rainbows, then out of the darkness came an evil beast named capitalism Man has always enslaved other men and animals, it is one of the symptoms of our diseased state. Call it whatever you want but I stand by the fact that if you blame misery on a system you are in reality to scared to confront the true source of that misery. I am a follower of no system created by man I address misery at its true source, Other Humans. Wake up ok

Mahak please don`t go or at least say where you will be posting. I may not agree with what you post alot of the time but I can say with total honesty you are one of the wisest (sp.) posters here and some of your insights have been downright inspiring so please stay