Samia

Why do people continue to support these con-artists. There are literally TONS of active groups out there that could use support that are making real strides in animal protection/ vegan education. Heck support Viva and if you are not in the UK see what you can do to start promoting and helping in your area. http://viva.org.uk/aboutus/index.html Animal rights are Animal rights in all cases, not only when they are convient. Read up on PETA, the truth, not some self financed look at me fluff piece. There is plenty of information out there and plenty of people who once supported them that are telling what they are really about. Cant forget the grat quote from PETA VP Mary Beth Sweetland who uses Insulin "I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic. Twice a day I take synthetically manufactured insulin that still contains some animal products--and I have no qualms about it." Sweetland adds, "I don't see myself as a hypocrite. I need my life to fight for the rights of animals." http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm

And I will kindly point out again that reading the post I was adressing might help clarify my comments. And I will kindly point out again that reading the post I was adressing might help clarify my comments. Try reading the whole comment "And then to think that taking a live and let live attitude with drug dealers and Gang members is ok ? That is madness I guess that their liberty is as important as those they kill." And no, personal liberty in most sane peoples eyes does not extend to having a right to be a violent gang member nor a drug dealer. Taken off topic a simple scan of the news shows where most peoples focus is and has been and a look at polls, for what they are worth, shows this split in party lines. Can more be done with truely important issues , of course and there are people out there doing it at a grassroots level with church groups and local outreach programs and groups like MADD that work on legislative solutions. Marches are totally self serving. My point was simply take 5 minutes and talk to someone on the street who would describe themselves as libral, heck even go to a libral website and all you see is Bush this Bush that Iraq this Iraq that. Bring up drunk driving and I give it 5 minutes that the discussion is deleted or somehow it is turned into how evil the cops are. Madness plain and simple. On the other hand talk to or visit a Conservative web site and see real issues like violence and substance abuse and perversion being discussed and solutions to these issues being bounced around. I am fully aware that these are generalizations that don`t account for middle of the road folks but the original post drew the line not me. Once again this silence thing LOL they can say whaever they want just as I can tell them that they are wrong. Let me quote His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada : "It is not my opinion--it is the verdict of the sastra[scripture]. Opinion--what is the value of opinion when the people are like dogs and asses? What is the use of taking the opinion of an ass? This vox populi--taking the opinion of the public--is degrading modern society. If the public is composed of drunkards, smokers, meat eaters, gamblers, and woman hunters, then what is the value of their opinion? Why take the opinion of fourth-class men? What Krishna says--that is the standard. Krishna is the supreme, and His version is final. No other opinion is allowed.

The choice of how and what my children are taught is my choice not anyone elses. Once again teaching my children is my duty and following the principles Illect sex is not acceptable. Sex is for procreation, any base reading in any of the holy books will teach you that and if in doubt His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada made these instructions quite clear as well. Only sick individuals, at the most medical emergencies should be the only reason. I will address your other " points " later as I have to go to work.

Might actually read what I was replying to, could have saved yourself some typing

Nope that one is yours too. Funny how anyone who lives a conservative lifestyle is viewed by librals in the same way. I don`t even wear my faith on my sleeves it is personal and between myself and those close to me. On the other hand you have the " compassionate " liberals who want my children to be taught in school that Homosexuality is OK, that any and all other sexual activity is great. That a good form of birth control is abortion, and drugs are ok to try. And then to think that taking a live and let live attitude with drug dealers and Gang members is ok ? That is madness I guess that their liberty is as important as those they kill. See all the liberals marching in outrage over the hundreds of troop deaths since the start of the war yet I dont see them out marching over the 16685 people killed by drinking and driving in one year alone, I guess that treads to close to that personal liberty thing huh

Your opinion but in logical eyes the birth was in response to how devolved the west was. Had little to do with right or left, both are foul in their ways abortion and drug use are just as demonic as Christian thought police. How compassionate.

"The movement is more mature now and the endeavour would be more rewarding than those early days of naivety and ignorance yet innocently full of enthusiasm." I would say the movement is older now in some ways less mature, it seems to me many are happy to lock themselves away and forget about spreading the movement. There is something to be said of naieve enthusiasm I still remember the roaming mobs in Berkely and their happiness which is what first introduced me to Krishna. What people fail to realize is the interest is there, I buy alot of old books at this huge used bookstore near my house and last week when I went in there were 3 or 4 Bhagavad Gitas there and several other BBT titles, when I was there just 2 days ago ALL of the Bhagavad Gitas were gone along with one or 2 of the other BBT titles. I think I may take your idea and buy a bunch and see what places I can get to offer them

Can we also get moderators to contact posters when their posts are deleted as well ? There have been several complaints about posts just vanishing without cause or explination. It is one thing to moderate if a post violates common sense rules like threats and vulgarity, however posts that offer an opinion on a subject that disappear for no reason makes discussions a bit frusterating.

"To see God, you must have special eyes. Otherwise you cannot bear the shock." All Science does is open more questions.

Scanning through the news tonight and found a story that sickened my soul. Maybe I have grown numb in regards to mans treatment of fellow men and need to examine that defect in myself but the rage I felt reading this I haven`t felt for some time http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13708685/detail.html?rss=dgo&psp=news More Teen Girls Accused Of Setting Kitten Ablaze POSTED: 3:41 pm PDT July 18, 2007 UPDATED: 8:01 pm PDT July 18, 2007 <!--startindex-->COTATI, Calif. -- A three-month-old kitten is fighting for his life after allegedly being set afire by two teenage girls last week. The male shorthaired kitten, named Adam, received second- and third-degree burns over 75 percent of its body and was being treated at the Animal Hospital in Cotati, located in Northern California's Sonoma County, officials said. A boy and his friend said they saw the smoke and heard the cat shrieking while the girls laughed.

Suprised the America bashers didn`t catch this one. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Christian_activists_disrupt_Hindu_prayer_in_US_Senate/articleshow/2199387.cms <table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="38%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td style="background-color: rgb(243, 243, 243);" width="100%"> </td></tr><tr valign="top"><td style="background-color: rgb(243, 243, 243);" width="100%">Hindu priest Rajan Zed was about to offer prayers when he was interrupted by three protesters ( TOI Photo) </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;"> </td></tr></tbody></table> WASHINGTON: Christian activists briefly disrupted a Hindu invocation in the U.S Senate on Thursday, marring a historic first for the chamber and showing that fundamentalism is present and shouting in the U.S too. Invited by the Senate to offer Hindu prayers in place of the usual Christian invocation, Rajan Zed, a Hindu priest from Reno, Nevada, had just stepped up to the podium for the landmark occasion when three protesters, said to belong to the Christian Right anti-abortion group Operation Save America, interrupted him by loudly asking for God's forgiveness for allowing the ''false prayer'' of a Hindu in the Senate chamber." Personally I am embarresed by this pathetic behavior

So is this post a subtle hint that you really don1t need a reason ? As the commercials say " Just Do It ! " :outta:

Good for her ... I hope healthcare does get a fresh face soon and if she stays true to her word one of the major reasons for the insane costs will be addressed. Malpractice insurance drives up cost more than any other factor. The US system however is hardley as bad as most America haters would have people believe though.

LOL I love how people hate on the US. Yea Im sure our system could use some work but in the latest test of our health care ... http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_6024440 The man was placed on a "no-fly" list, which would have barred him from entering the United States by plane. But the man got around the no-fly restriction by traveling from Rome to Prague, Czech Republic, and flying from there to Montreal. He and his wife drove across the border to New York, where he voluntarily checked in to a hospital. The patient sneaked back into the United States because he feared that if he stayed in Rome, he would die there, he told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. So despite all the " Amazing " health care listed in the article people still risk life and freedom to get treatment in the US. I live in the Pacific Northwest and see people from Canada all the time coming on the train to come to our doctors for treatment. LOL X 100

Bhakta Don Muntean I would have responded sooner to the now locked thread it saddens me that you have givin up on Krishna but I truely hope whatever path you take allows you to find peace. It is very odd that I log in to wish you well and at the same time find this article in the news. http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/4839234.html "WASHINGTON — The federal government is undertaking the most ambitious set of studies ever mounted under a controversial arrangement that allows researchers to conduct some kinds of medical experiments without first getting the patients' permission. The $50 million, five-year project, which will involve more than 20,000 patients in 11 sites in the United States and Canada, is designed to improve treatment after car accidents, shootings, cardiac arrest and other emergencies." Keep fighting man !

And you don`t ? I have yet to see you post without namecalling or attacks apart from your first post here. Since this is your experience it is the way of the world ? Have you had these discussions in Dubai ? Saudi Arabia ? Egypt ? By experience you will find a lot less acceptance in these places you even run the risk of being jailed. So before you assume that your view is the way of the world try seeing more of the world. Wow so you really didn`t read a word he wrote did you ? Once again instead of responding to the facts of the post you lable and namecall. It is amazing that you accuse everyone of subverting discussions when you just come to threads and namecall if the thread doesn`t fit your views.

Wow, So we have sunken down to posting articles by racist freaks ? While at his site be sure and order some of his great videos as well..... I hear this one is a best seller: God's Power Politics for the White Race. <!-- allproducts -->In this visionary oration, Michael A. Hoffman II challenges all those concerned with the survival of the white community, whether Christians or non-Christians. Taking on the central myths of the contemporary white nationalist movement, Hoffman shows how whites can survive and enhance their position now, without politicians or failed Great White Hope politics. Approx. one hour.

Wow you really are bent out of shape, I have yet to see you support any of your opinion pieces with one single fact from any academic source. I post fact after fact and you have yet to even come close to any sort of response. How can I be anti-Muslim when I lived in Dubai for 5 years with a Muslim family, it sure would be a shock to them. Have you read and studied the Koran ? Have you ever even left whatever state you live in for a view at the real world ? Sure I dont have many posts here as I originally came here following links for the band Shelter. I read alot here and follow links to other good sites. I was compelled to post because of all the Israel hate that I saw here. I felt I could point out facts as opposed to the biased articles posted here, since I spent many years living in the Middle East and have real life experience. Were there articles here as false as the ones about Israel directed to Muslims I would address those as well. In you shallow world view however you view support of Israel as anti-Muslim ( again that would shock the many Muslims that are living peacefully and happily in Israel ) so there really is no hope for you. I would suggest finishing school, getting out into the world and maturing a bit before attempting to discuss world matters with the big boys.

Wow that read just like Who Rules America put out by the National Alliance. Funny that you post a propaganda piece in response to facts. What is even more hilarious is that the propaganda piece is about propaganda.

Actually if you knew the slightest touch of history you would know the root of all this. Maybe when you grow up and get an education you might have a clearer picture. Did you even browse the link I provided for beginner level information or were the words too big for you ?

No, No, No you misread. He is not interested in a debate. See the sites he frequents give him things like this to post but he can not support his claims at all. As you notice once he is proven wrong he starts calling people that have the FACTS Jews and ADL spies.

I really feel sorry for you, If you were to open a book for a few minutes and actually learn anything you might not make such easy to destroy arguments. I will do you a favour though here is a nice historical site about the region take a few days to digest it. Then go to a bookstore and pick up a few books as well. It wont be enough, but then at least you wont be so ill equipped to discuss the region with someone who has spent years there http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html The term "Palestinian" itself had referred to Israeli Jews back in the 1940s, and had been slowly deconstructed and redefined to refer to the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza. The Middle East Conflict was always a war by Arabs against Jews, not a conflict between Israelis and "Palestinians." The war was repackaged as a conflict between Jews and Palestinians as a public relations gimmick by the Arab fascist regimes. These regimes had never had any interest in "Palestinians," in creating a "Palestinian" state, or in "Palestinian nationalism" before 1967. That is because Palestinian nationalism did not and DOES NOT exist. I have a better solution, Release the hostage, stop strapping bombs to your kids, then pack up and return to Jordan.

I cited ONE example of the UN are you really that thick As I stated I cannot dismiss the charges or accept them until they are examined by a reputable body not a corrupt to the bone debate club.

Most thinking individuals are aware of the Eastern European sex trade that has a home in Israel among MANY places. Are you forgetting the many Arab nations, or do you just hate Israel so ?

No I dont deny anything until it is proven or disproven, I dont however trust any " reports " that come from proven liars who rape and pillage while wearing blue helmets. I guess your haste to condemm Israel leads you to take claims from pedophiles, rapists, and thieves without pause ?