Maitreya

Originally posted by Maitreya:

 

 

Originally posted by Maitreya:

 

 

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

We call this krsna-prema. To feel this is to attain Hari. "

 

It is not guaranteed that you will realize Hari Himself, but that you will feel something like those who had realized Him in this specific aspect.

 

Satyaraja, how does one have Krishna-preme without having realized Hari?

 

Perhaps I am not understanding what you mean by 'realize'.

 

 

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

We call this krsna-prema. To feel this is to attain Hari. "

 

It is not guaranteed that you will realize Hari Himself, but that you will feel something like those who had realized Him in this specific aspect.

 

Satyaraja, how does one have Krishna-preme without having realized Hari?

 

Perhaps I am not understanding what you mean by 'realize'.

 

 

Originally posted by shvu:

Just kidding, maitreya.

 

Cheers

I know shvu, but I always have hope for you.

Originally posted by shvu:

Just kidding, maitreya.

 

Cheers

I know shvu, but I always have hope for you.

cont.

By employing pretentious means, no one can ever make transcendental mellows appear in the holy name.

The backwards conception that Krishna's name comes from rasa can never be true.

Rasa,devotional mellow, can never be first present and then develop into rati,transcendental attachment, or sraddha, proper faith.

The Srimad-bhagavatam[or the realized devotee]never sings any opinion other than- rati develops from sraddha.

The pure devotee of Krishna never speaks of anything other than rasa, transcendental mellow, that is endowed with rati, loving attachment.

The guru never claims that rati and rasa are present within the preliminary devotion[sadhana bhakti].

The awakening of transcendental emotional ecstasies[bhava-bhakti] is never said to occur before the pratice of regulated devotional service [sadhana-bhakti].

The performance of regulated devotion with faith limited only to such beginning regulations[vaidhi-sraddha] can never give rise to spontaneous devotional practice[raganuga-bhakti].

When bhava, the ecstatic mood of divine love actually sprouts, then the need for following scriptural rules[vidhi] does not remain.

Mere faith in spontaneous devotional service, however, does not produce the actual awakening of transcendental loving attachment[rati].

to be cont.

Originally posted by shvu:

forgive them [the author], o lord, for they know not what they are doing.

 

Cheers

shvu, who are you praying to?

Originally posted by shvu:

forgive them [the author], o lord, for they know not what they are doing.

 

Cheers

shvu, who are you praying to?

cont.

Devotional service unto Lord Krishna can never be performed by engaging in the mundane enjoyment of material sense-objects.

Material things can never acquire the attributes of the transcendental at any time.

The true devotee never engages in activities of materialistic sense gratification.

Material enjoyment and devotional service to Krishna are never the same under any circumstances.

Selfish enjoyment of one's own senses in mundane lust is never called prema[love of Godhead]by the genuine devotee.

A bonafide spiritual master never tells his disciple,"You are absorbed in the mellows of divine rasa."

The genuine spiritual master never claims,"I am absorbed in the mellows of divine rasa."

The guru never talks idly with his disciples on subjects of gross worldly mellows.

By singing the glories of worldly relationships born of mundane mellows, no one has ever attained benefit in their spiritual life.

The genuine devotee never proclaims that Lord Krishna's incarnation is mundane.

The devotee never says that the holy name of Krishna is material, for Krishna cannot be known by means of matter.

The pure devotee of the Lord never recognizes any difference between the holy name and pure rasa itself.

The bonafide spiritual master never teaches that there is a difference between the holy name of Krishna and rasa.

Even after attaining actual rasa, the regulative principles of devotional service are never concluded.

to be cont.

We all have a beloved and His name is Hari.

Prakrita-Rasa Shata-Dushini

A Hundred Warnings Against Mundane Mellows

Srila Bhaktisuddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada

Translations by Dasaratha-suta dasa

O brothers! No material efforts can ever produce the awakening of rasa,factual transcendental mellows.

The pure devotee of the Lord never sings the glories of any mundane mellows that are born of the dull material world.

The true disciples never desire to ask their spiritual master for instructions regarding material mellows.

The genuine spiritual master never gives his disciples any material mellows, which are devoid of rati, transcendental loving attachment to the Lord.

The Lord's real devotee never knows any difference between the holy name of Krishna and transcendental mellows.

Therefore the devotee never says there is a difference between the holy name and the mellows of devotion.

The holy name is never revealed to one who is situated in the bodily concept of life and thinks in terms of "I" and "mine."

If one doesn't reject the enjoying mentality, the transcendental platform will never be attained.

To be cont.

Brahma das,

I finnaly got through and have ordered their catalog.I didn't see the cabled bags at the web site but the catalog will have more items I think.

MC

Brahma das,

Thanks for the good tips prabhu.All the sound advice on this thread so far will undoubtedly save me and others in my position who are reading a lot of grief.

I have made arrangements with MVT already.It seems like Dhanajaya has thought of everything and has done a great service for all.

I will take the extract with me.I couldn't bring up the travelsmith page for some reason but the cabled bags sound like a must.I will keep trying.I never knew anyone made them so would have never tried without your tip.

Things must have really changed there in the last twenty years.

Maybe we will run into each other if you go again this year.

Haribol

YS MC

R,

Those 11 people were never appointed guru.They had mangerial skills.One who follows is guru.Anyone and evryone can pick it up.Acarya is self effulgent.

He also wrote in a purport to the CC that demons have entered the Krishna consciousness movement and their association should be avoided.

Go for the honey R, it tastes better than the alternative.

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Action is better than precept. An acarya is the one who teaches by his personal actions. In the Gaudiya tradition Sri Caitanya is the topmost acarya to be followed. He is considered the bhakta-avatara Himself.

 

At the end He just had merged Himself into a Deity at Puri. That's to say, He got sayujiya mukti, the kind of moksa that Gaudiyas use to hate.

 

One should argue that He was Bhagavan and therefore He did not actually had attained this kind of mukti. But the same event has repeated itself in the case of Mirabai, who was a great bhakta and has merged into a Deity at Dvaraka.

 

So, brilliant bhaktas had opted to moksa. The worst kind of all kinds of moksa, isvara-sayujiya-mukti as their last activity at the end of their lives.

 

Supposedly Sri Caitanya, Mirabai and others had attained perfection in bhakti. Why did they opt to this kind of moksa?

 

 

So according to this Lord Caitanya is no more, having merged into the form of Krishna.

Lord Caitanya now, according to Professor Satyaraja really accepted sayujiya, liberation.

Your question is non sense.A product of an overly active imagination perhaps.

I read it several times trying to find another meaning to no avail.

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Action is better than precept. An acarya is the one who teaches by his personal actions. In the Gaudiya tradition Sri Caitanya is the topmost acarya to be followed. He is considered the bhakta-avatara Himself.

 

At the end He just had merged Himself into a Deity at Puri. That's to say, He got sayujiya mukti, the kind of moksa that Gaudiyas use to hate.

 

One should argue that He was Bhagavan and therefore He did not actually had attained this kind of mukti. But the same event has repeated itself in the case of Mirabai, who was a great bhakta and has merged into a Deity at Dvaraka.

 

So, brilliant bhaktas had opted to moksa. The worst kind of all kinds of moksa, isvara-sayujiya-mukti as their last activity at the end of their lives.

 

Supposedly Sri Caitanya, Mirabai and others had attained perfection in bhakti. Why did they opt to this kind of moksa?

 

 

So according to this Lord Caitanya is no more, having merged into the form of Krishna.

Lord Caitanya now, according to Professor Satyaraja really accepted sayujiya, liberation.

Your question is non sense.A product of an overly active imagination perhaps.

I read it several times trying to find another meaning to no avail.

By contemplating the objects of the senses one develops attachment.By contemplating Krishna one becomes attached to Him.

At first it may be regulated [vaidi].By by controlling the mind to this degree one is redirecting one's consciousness to Krishna.At the same time material attachments are not being strengthened.

As attachment to Krishna service becomes one of having a taste for it,and it becomes spontaneous in nature, it is known as raganuga.

It is not that there anyone is teaching a magic formula of a certain # of rounds and 4 regs. and then Bhakti is forced to appear as some consistently and blindly assert.

If no change of heart is reguired then why doesn't bhakti just land on every soul right now,irrespective of their desires and be done with it?Why does it appear that Bhakti discriminates?Why the material world at all?

In other words Satyaraja, it is a clearing process and not a creating process.

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 06-19-2001).]

So you consider that the minimazation of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu?Well perhaps it wasn't an answer but it was a nice life sketch.

Are you the author Satyaraja?

Another nice story concerning Mira.Inspirational indeed.

Yes we can see she was a fearless woman.But this does not place her above Sri Caitanya in anyway.

It is not that Mahaprabhu was afraid to go it alone.Or that He was dependent on His sannyasi status for comfort or protection.

When he announced He was going through the Jharikhanda forest to Vrndaban, He said He wanted to go alone.The animals would hardly recognize the color of His cloth.

At the urging of Svarupa Damodara and Ramananda Raya He agreed to bless Balabhadra Bhattacarya by allowing him to accompany Him.

But this thread is about Caitanya and Tantra, so no need to discuss Mira too much here.

Jaya Caitanya!

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 06-18-2001).]

Originally posted by R:

I wish I could say that my 5 years within ISKCON had left me full of good faith, but rather the opposite is true.

 

Which five years?Where did you put your faith?In an institution?If so no wonder you are disappointed.

At first I felt that a long, sincere approach was most appropriate...of course...one that did not challenge. Who was I to Challenge?

 

It is a gradual process.Challenge?Inquiry is better and it is the students duty to make relevant inquiries,submissively yes, and with service, but not blindly to an impersonal concept like an institution.This is personalism not institutionalism.

 

The institution is there as a vehicle for preaching, not as a substitute guru.

 

This reminds me, who am I now? Just a very confused jerk. The jerk part never changes.

 

True.We are all jerks for rejecting Krishna, and you are no exception.But its temporary.

Please don't let my words appear holy.

 

They don't.

 

I've described myself.

 

No, just your false self.

 

But where does one go in my state?

 

To the Lord in the heart for guidance.

 

My mind remembers something once said: "that a holy tree cannot produce bad fruit." I love that. But it only deepens the confusion.

 

Then you don't understand it.

 

I couldn't help notice the way or manner that SP walked...his head up so high. So easy for him to accept worship, as the go-between, between us and Lord Krishna.

 

Sounds envious.Should he have walked around displaying a false sense of humility like you with the "I'm a jerk" act?

 

Prabhupada is a lion.One who is gentle AND ferocious,regal as well.It's the hyenas, like us, that must slink around.

 

Where's the bottom line? Why would the holy tree produce such an abundance of bad fruit?

 

He didn't.

 

What does this mean? Just to confuse me? More bad fruit. This man...SP...creating so much bad fruit? How odd now that I think about it. And there is no question that he did create it.

 

No question that he did NOT.You admit to being confused on this point so why take your own conclusions seriously?You were confused before and you still are and will be as long as you continue to impose you false conclusions onto Krishna's devotee.

 

Am I allowed to ask? I mean no harm.

 

What if someone said "no, you are not allowed to ask";would you accept it?Still seeking group approval?You are the one suffering your own karma as we all do.No one should be so weak as to let the failings of others keep us from intensifying our search for reality.

 

This is a Life and death struggle, this attempt to reject maya and accept Krishna.

 

Weakness is not exactly meekness.To recognize our weakness before the Lord and His representitive makes us meak and a fit vessel for His strength to come through us.Krishna personally held Prabhupada's head up while saying"This is My good Son in whom I am well pleased."The pride you sensed was Krishna's pride in His faithful servant coming through.

 

When we surrender to Krishna in love then we will also be able to hold our heads up.Until then we should keep them down.

 

It is like disciple and guru are the same person.Relative to his guru, guru is disciple.Relative to us he is guru.So the point is a humble person doing the work of jagad-guru will allow himself to be a via medium to the All Strong One, Krishna.

 

I think after all of this, I should be able to wonder. I don't know up from down. I will wait for a week before saying more. Sincerely, R

 

Again you say you don't know up from down, but yet you conclude that SP bore bad fruit.If he made only one true devotee that is proof that that he is a tree well rooted in Vaikuntha.

 

The fact is the material world is the tree of bad fruit.Sometimes those fruits take on the external appearance of the good fruit in imitation but they remain rotten inside.

 

I hope my straight forward response didn't offend you R.

 

MC

 

 

 

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

 

 

 

Some great maha-janas not even had establish any sect, but they actually have more followers than any sect or sampradaya, such as Mirabai, for example. Do you know something about her? Hers teachings and way of life? Her devotion? Her example of devotion would minimize Sri Caitanya's in many aspects.

Satyaraja,

Last month you were saying at most Mirabai could have attained was the status of a queen in Dvaraka.

Now you say Mirabai's devotion is greater then that of Sri Caitanya's in many aspects.

Why the dramatic change in position?

Maitreya

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 06-18-2001).]

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

It is a powerful stimulant with caffeine. Check the official Guarana Site for details.

 

Them musta been speedy kirtans in Brasil.

I hope they weren't chanting guarana haribol.

Ooohhhh that was bad.

Sorry for corny joke.It even made me cringe.

Haribol atma,

guarana contains guaranine[sp?] which is the same as caffeine.

The part used is a seed or bean.It is in the same class as coffee or kola nut.Yerba mate is a much more suitable version of stimulants,as it is milder and more tonic and less stimulating.But there too you have caffeine.

The problem with these substances is that if you don't burn up all the energy physically you end up with a sense of inner tension.Just what we don't need for meditation.

I used it alot years ago until I started getting tension headaches from it.

If you are trying to overcome your getting to little sleep atma by using stimulants you can expect a crash sooner or later.

I have heard the example of stimulants used like this is like whipping a tired horse to get it up.Kinda works for a while but finnally the horse can take no more.

True tonics may have a stimulating effect but they also have a building effect on the system.

For enegry without the tension try calamous acorous.Also known as sweet flag.Vacha in ayurveda.I posted on it under herbal cognitive enhancers, this foum.

I am a vacha pusher[promoter].I want everyone to give this herb a try.

I hope you are still getting more genuine rest as well.

Hare Krishna

Maitreya

LOL! I hear you bro.On my fortieth birthday my mind played a trick on me and I thought it was my 39th again.I went for a full 11 months till I figured it out.Then it seemed like I aged two years in one.O' cruel world.My bag is 49 now. All hope is gone.Young women have called me sir for a while now.At least no one has offered me their seat on the bus yet.I wonder how I will react.Just one more reason to keep walking I guess.

Thank God the soul is ever youthful.

Now where's my soup damn it?!!