Maitreya
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Posts posted by Maitreya
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Originally posted by shvu:
Maitreya,
Not all the people who believe in souls are of one opinion either. The christians believe that only humans have souls and not plants and animals, although plants and animals have life. Thus according to them, life is not connected to the soul.
Agreed.There are also speculations about the soul.The Bible is not a good source for a working definition of what constitutes the soul in my opinion.I have come across Christians who believe that the soul is produced when the 'breath of life' meets the human form and then somehow ceases to exist at death only to be brought back to life when that mysterious breath of life meets the old physical body in the resurrection.I find this very strange.
Some also fail to understand that the soul is individual in nature.So you are right, opinions vary but ultimately someone is to be found who knows.
From our conditioned vantage point[or dis-advantaged point]there will always be a variety of opinions.Truth still exists.
About people floating up to the ceiling, have you sen anyone do that? I am sure you watched the program in discovery on levitation, about the Brazil guy's photo where he was floating in mid-air in a church. The photo was found to be doctored.
I did see that show and accept that people will fake anything.But just because counterfeits exist doesn't mean I will throw out the accept form of money that is in my wallet.
I was actually speaking of astral projection during the operations.And yes I have done that, as has everyone else.I have been outside of my physical body and looked back to see it sleeping in my bed. This is not uncommon at all.We do it everynight but rarely remember it.
About pre-conceived notions, I am sure you will accept that plenty of 'religious' people have pre-conceived notions that there is life after death, so strong that they just do not want to acknowledge any alternate possiblity. In fact, they are so sure about it that nothing is going to convince them that it may be false. What about those people?
Perhaps they have obtained knowledge on the fact.I am closed minded on the issue.I am convinced theoreticaly that I am not this body.The question is no longer a viable one.Notice I said theoreticaly.Now the only question is one of realization of that fact.No small thing I admit.
To remain forever undecided is to remain forever in ignorance.
Do you deny that knowledge can actually be realized?
The religious guy with his dogma, is much much worse than the 'confused' scientist.
From the level of belief take your pick and take your chances.
But why do you give more weight to the mundane scientist?They have no proof to offer.Why not be at least as sceptical towards them?
Hare Krishna
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Other than the pure transcendental names of Krishna, which are completely free from all material contact,nothing else should be spoken.
Other than the pure transcendental forms of Krishna,which are completely free from all material contact, nothing else should be seen.
Other than the pure transcendental qualities of Krishna, which are completely free from all material contact, nothing else should be heard.
Other than the pure transcendental pastimes of Krishna,which are completely free from all material contact,nothing else should be served.
to be cont.
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Satyaraja,
That is the best of accounts due to his having been born blind.
shvu,
What about that account from Satyaraja?Can you give an alternative explanation?
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dubeyrakesh,
They have no one opinion.You want to find one opinion that they all agree on over this but it doesn't exist.
For instance many surgens and other operating personnel have come to accept life after death or that the person is distinct from the body simply from hearing the narrations of their patients who have had near death experiences and told them about them.Or out of body experiences where the patient while unconscious from the bodily viewpoint,or even "clinicaly dead" recounted specific things said between them as they worked on the body.Including others entering the room etc.The patients would have often floated up to the ceiling area of the room and witnessed their own operations.Then reentered the body and in due course became alert again through the body and told of their experiences.
Some believe them some don't.The ones who don't can't offer any other reasonable explanations but because it goes against their preconceived notion that there is no life after death, they are left in a defensive posture.
You may be interested to try sites on near death experiences to hear some of these stories.Some have forums for discussions and may prove to be quite interesting.
Hare Krishna
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We have nothing to fear from mundane scientists.For instance the knowledge that has come through them concerning how rapidly
atoms change in our bodies just gives more evidence to the fact that we the conscious living beings are seperate from that process.
Atoms come and go, we remain.
Anyone familiar with the work of the theortical quantum physicist Michio Kaku?I can't follow these deep scientific theories, but I recently caught a show on tv's Dicovery science channel called the lab,in which they were showing how his ten dimensional universe theory shows how mystic siddhis could work.From pyschic communication to physical bodies disappearing from this dimension and slipping into another one.How due to the interconnectedness of the universe all these different dimensions are reachable right here and now.Prapti?
I can find something to respect in them as they are searching for knowledge.But their approach is ackward and limited.Better to hear from the self realized.
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Hamas is a disease. Talk about child abuse.
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Here are three verses from Krishna that relate.
Bg 9.23 - Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way.
Bg 9.24 - I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down.
Bg 9.25 - Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me.
Hare Krishna
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dubeyrakesh,
I am not a scientist, but I do know that even now they are debating the issue of what is death.
They don't know exactly.It used to be measured as heartbeat, present or absent.Or the same with breath.But now they have machines that can imitate or force the body to preform those tasks.They also have developed ways of measuring brain activity and so now the standard is no brain activity = death.
Others are now saying that the neogenesis of nerve and brain tissue will re-establish brain function and thus restore life.They say this because they consider consciousness to be a product of the brain.This is why some poor fools are paying 40,000 dollars to have their heads frozen.Cryonics.They dream that in the future this will be perfected and they will be brought back to life.
A sucker is born every birth but some take it to the extreme.
Most argue that consciousness is the issue,but no material scientist has been able to find it, even though they are *consciously* looking for it.
They are frustrated.
It is interesting that this is the point where point Bhagavad-gita begins,with Arjuna's frustration and Krishna explaining the soul-consciousness.
But at least they are searching.When they adopt the method of inquiry that Arjuna exhibited success will be theirs.
Hare Krishna
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This is a translation of a telepathicly transmitted conversation overheard between twins in the womb.Nah,just kidding.Nice little story anyway found on a Christian site.
Twins, a sister and brother were talking to each other in the womb. The little sister said to the little brother: ‘I believe that there is life after birth!’ Her brother protested: ‘No, no, this is all there is. This is a dark and cosy place, and we have nothing else to do but to cling on to the cord that feeds us.’ But the little girl insisted: ‘There must be something more than this dark place, there must be something else where there is light and freedom to move.’ Still she could not convince her twin brother. Then...after some silence, she said hesitantly: ‘I have something else to say, and I am afraid you won’t believe that either, but I think there is a mother!’ Her little brother now became furious: ‘A mother, a mother, what are you talking about? I have never seen a mother and neither have you. Who put that idea in your head? As I told you, this place is all we have so let’s be content.’ The little sister finally said: ‘Don’t you feel this pressure sometimes? Its really unpleasant and sometimes even painful.’ ‘Yes,’ he answered, ‘what’s special about that?’ ‘Well,’ the sister said, ‘I think this pressure is there to get us ready for another place, much more beautiful than this, where we will see our mother face to face! Don’t you think that’s exciting!.
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Once when walking in to Barnes and Noble I happened to hear this guest author say something striking.
Her research was on twins while in the womb.She mentioned how ultra sound scans showed twins in the womb displaying signs of affection.Touching one another with obvious awareness of the others presence in a loving way.
I should have bought her book as now I can't even remember her name.
If anyone knows please post the info.
Thanks
MC
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No atma, I read it wrong.I didn't notice the word 'from'.
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atma,
That refers to the soul becoming aware of its situation.
Here is 3.31.1 and part of the purport:
TRANSLATION
The Personality of Godhead said: Under the supervision of the Supreme Lord and according to the result of his work, the living entity, the soul, is made to enter into the womb of a woman through the particle of male semen to assume a particular type of body.
PURPORT
As stated in the last chapter, after suffering different kinds of hellish conditions, a man comes again to the human form of body. The same topic is continued in this chapter. In order to give a particular type of human form to a person who has already suffered hellish life, the soul is transferred to the semen of a man who is just suitable to become his father. During sexual intercourse, the soul is transferred through the semen of the father into the mother’s womb in order to produce a particular type of body.
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So what of the soul? Where does it come from? This also brings into question the infallibility of the "Srimad Bhagavatam"
Suryaz,
For what it is worth here is how I see it.
Modern science is still only combining cellular material that was previously created.So they are just substituting the petri dish for the womb,imitating what they have observed in nature.
They get some credit for their powers of observation and manipulation but not life creation.
In nature already we find snails that are sexless giving birth without partners of any kind.
For cells, dividing is how they give birth.
The principle point is that souls are not products of material combination.
Some develop novel ways to play God, and the Supersoul allows it and gives all facility.
When I was a child I had a play chemistry set and I would pretend to create so many things.[usually bombs
]So maya has given these scientists little chemistry sets to play creator with.And some souls have a particular karma to experience birth in that way.
I am sure there are endless ways for matter and spirit to interact throughout the universe.
So the soul comes from Krishna and the Bhagavatam is mean to take us back to Him.
"Take the essence..."
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What about the tank event where they compete to see which one can crush the most scrambling protestors in a five minute period.
Always gets a big reaction from public, but for some reason($)the world leaders never take much interest.
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atma,
Now that is done right ghastly.Worse then looking down and finding a cockroach in your bowl.
What a waste of good foodstuff.
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Gaurachandra,
What was the date on that report that Jagat listed?
Who knows it might be prophetic.
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Yes Bhakta Shakta there is a moral.All knife weilding thugs beware.The priest may be packin'.
One more example of why there should be no laws banning concealed firarms for the average citizen.
McArmed
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They may have a point.Or do they?
July 13, 2001
Taliban Bans Internet
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (United Press International via COMTEX) -- Use of the Internet by individuals and national and international organizations has been banned by Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia to prevent access to "things that are wrong, obscene, immoral and against Islam," the official Afghan Islamic Press reported Friday.
The news agency said the order was issued last week from the Taliban headquarters in Kandahar, which cited misuse of the facility as the reason for the ban.
"We want to establish a system in Afghanistan through which we can control all those things that are wrong, obscene, immoral and against Islam," the AIP quoted Taliban Foreign Minister Maulvi Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil as saying.
The Taliban is made up of hard-line Islamic fundamentalists. In 1996, in a factional war against other Islamic groups, it toppled the government of President Burhanuddin Rabbani, who is still recognized by most of the world as Afghanistan's legitimate leader.
In March this year, the militia destroyed historic statues of the Buddha, claiming that the Koran, Islam's holy book, forbids idolatry. Later, they ordered Hindus living in areas under their control to wear distinctive identification badges on their clothing for easy identification. They later canceled the label ruling.
A small number of people working with the United Nations in Afghanistan have Internet access in Kabul. Few, if any, private Afghan's are thought to have it.
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I just have a quick question.Are there any restrictions in shruti texts about those who can directly study shruti texts?
Just curious.
Thanks,
MC
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In this discussion of the Lord's eatting habits, let's not forget our place on the menu.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pändavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.
PURPORT
Although Arjuna knew that Krsna was his friend and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he was puzzled by the various forms exhibited by Krsna. Therefore he asked further about the actual mission of this devastating force. It is written in the Vedas that the Supreme Truth destroys everything, even the brahmanas. As stated in the Katha Upanishad (1.2.25),
yasya brahma ca kñatraà ca
ubhe bhavata odanaù
måtyur yasyopasecanaà
ka itthä veda yatra saù
Eventually all the brähmanas, ksatriyas and everyone else are devoured like a meal by the Supreme. This form of the Supreme Lord is the all-devouring giant, and here Krsna presents Himself in that form of all-devouring time. Except for a few Pändavas, everyone who was present on that battlefield would be devoured by Him. Arjuna was not in favor of the fight, and he thought it was better not to fight; then there would be no frustration. In reply, the Lord is saying that even if he did not fight, every one of them would be destroyed, for that was His plan. If Arjuna stopped fighting, they would die in another way. Death could not be checked, even if he did not fight. In fact, they were already dead. Time is destruction, and all manifestations are to be vanquished by the desire of the Supreme Lord. That is the law of nature.
Bg 11.32
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leyh,
You have probably read those conversations that Srila Prabhupada had with Svarupa Damodara Gosvami in that small book,Life Comes From Life.
In there he says that each cell is a separate living entity.
I don't know exactly when that soul that is destined for human form enters.Interesting question.Seems like it could be at anytime during the journey.
I always held the picture of a second soul, the one to be human,just kind of jumping in at the last minute and riding the sperm cell to the egg.Giddyup.Nah,actually more like riding inside, like a passenger in one of those hydroplanes.
But two souls, one to be human and the other just a regular spermie.But that may be just my overactive imagination. Anybody know the facts?
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leyh,
You have probably read those conversations that Srila Prabhupada had with Svarupa Damodara Gosvami in that small book,Life Comes From Life.
In there he says that each cell is a separate living entity.
I don't know exactly when that soul that is destined for human form enters.Interesting question.Seems like it could be at anytime during the journey.
I always held the picture of a second soul, the one to be human,just kind of jumping in at the last minute and riding the sperm cell to the egg.Giddyup.Nah,actually more like riding inside, like a passenger in one of those hydroplanes.
But two souls, one to be human and the other just a regular spermie.But that may be just my overactive imagination. Anybody know the facts?
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In this discussion of the Lord's eatting habits, let's not forget our place on the menu.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pändavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.
PURPORT
Although Arjuna knew that Krsna was his friend and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he was puzzled by the various forms exhibited by Krsna. Therefore he asked further about the actual mission of this devastating force. It is written in the Vedas that the Supreme Truth destroys everything, even the brahmanas. As stated in the Katha Upanishad (1.2.25),
yasya brahma ca kñatraà ca
ubhe bhavata odanaù
måtyur yasyopasecanaà
ka itthä veda yatra saù
Eventually all the brähmanas, ksatriyas and everyone else are devoured like a meal by the Supreme. This form of the Supreme Lord is the all-devouring giant, and here Krsna presents Himself in that form of all-devouring time. Except for a few Pändavas, everyone who was present on that battlefield would be devoured by Him. Arjuna was not in favor of the fight, and he thought it was better not to fight; then there would be no frustration. In reply, the Lord is saying that even if he did not fight, every one of them would be destroyed, for that was His plan. If Arjuna stopped fighting, they would die in another way. Death could not be checked, even if he did not fight. In fact, they were already dead. Time is destruction, and all manifestations are to be vanquished by the desire of the Supreme Lord. That is the law of nature.
Bg 11.32
[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 07-12-2001).]
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In this discussion of the Lord's eatting habits, let's not forget our place on the menu.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pändavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.
PURPORT
Although Arjuna knew that Krsna was his friend and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he was puzzled by the various forms exhibited by Krsna. Therefore he asked further about the actual mission of this devastating force. It is written in the Vedas that the Supreme Truth destroys everything, even the brahmanas. As stated in the Katha Upanishad (1.2.25),
yasya brahma ca kñatraà ca
ubhe bhavata odanaù
måtyur yasyopasecanaà
ka itthä veda yatra saù
Eventually all the brähmanas, ksatriyas and everyone else are devoured like a meal by the Supreme. This form of the Supreme Lord is the all-devouring giant, and here Krsna presents Himself in that form of all-devouring time. Except for a few Pändavas, everyone who was present on that battlefield would be devoured by Him. Arjuna was not in favor of the fight, and he thought it was better not to fight; then there would be no frustration. In reply, the Lord is saying that even if he did not fight, every one of them would be destroyed, for that was His plan. If Arjuna stopped fighting, they would die in another way. Death could not be checked, even if he did not fight. In fact, they were already dead. Time is destruction, and all manifestations are to be vanquished by the desire of the Supreme Lord. That is the law of nature.
Bg 11.32
[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 07-12-2001).]
Faith & Intelligence
in Spiritual Discussions
Posted
What sect's preceptors teach that intelligence is to discarded?
American Heriatge Dictionary on faith:
faith-1)A confident belief in the truth, value,or trustworthiness of a person,idea or thing.
By employing intelligence rightly, that is by conducting tests of the process to try to determine if it has merit or value, faith becomes strenthened.
2)Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
Ultimately our intelligence will instruct us that that which we seek is beyond our mundane intellectual grasp.Faith then becomes the connecting bridge from us to that Person.Intelligence is still there as a support for that bridge.And as a sign pointing to that bridge.
3)Loyalty to a person or thing;allegiance.
We are all starting from a place of self interest.We have been operating with a type of faith that says if I work according to my minds desire then I will be happy.Our intelligence is now showing us that we have reposed our faith in the wrong object.By grace our mind and intelligence have become interested in Krishna through the canvassing efforts of His beloved devotees.So now we are beginning to transfer that faith towards Him.
By learning about His character more and more,side by side with seeing the disasterous results obtained having faith in maya, this seems to be the only intelligent place to direct our faith.
It looks to me like intelligence and faith work together.
But purified intelligence will never direct faith towards itself but instead to Krishna.
YS MC