Maitreya

It's more than just a walk in the park.

 

CC MADHYA 13.119

 

TRANSLATION

 

Thus there was a sort of competition between Caitanya Mahäprabhu and Lord Jagannätha in seeing who would lead, but Caitanya Mahäprabhu was so strong that He made Lord Jagannätha wait in His car.

 

PURPORT

In his Anubhäñya, Srila Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvaté Thäkura describes the ecstasy of Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu as follows. After giving up the company of the gopis in Vrndävana, Sri Krsna, the son of Mahäräja Nanda, engaged in His pastimes at Dvärakä. When Krsna went to Kuruksetra with His brother and sister and others from Dvärakä, He again met the inhabitants of Vrndävana. Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu is rädhä-bhäva-dyuti-suvalita, that is, Krsna Himself assuming the part of Srimaté Rädhäräni in order to understand Krsna. Lord Jagannätha-deva is Krsna, and Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahäprabhu is Srimaté Rädhäräni. Caitanya Mahäprabhu’s leading Lord Jagannätha toward the Gundicä temple corresponded to Srimati Rädhäräni’s leading Krsna toward Vrndävana. Sri Ksetra, Jagannätha Puri, was taken as the kingdom of Dvärakä, the place where Krsna enjoys supreme opulence. But He was being led by Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu to Vrndävana, the simple village where all the inhabitants are filled with ecstatic love for Krsn. Sri Ksetra is a place of aisvarya-lilä, just as Vrndävana is the place of mädhurya-lélä. Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu’s following at the rear of the ratha indicated that Lord Jagannätha, Krsna, was forgetting the inhabitants of Våndävana. Although Krsna neglected the inhabitants of Vrndävana, He could not forget them. Thus in His opulent Ratha-yäträ, He was returning to Vrndävana. In the role of Srimaté Rädhäräni, Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu was examining whether the Lord still remembered the inhabitants of Vrndävana. When Caitanya Mahäprabhu fell behind the Ratha car, Jagannätha-deva, Krsna Himself, understood the mind of Srimaté Rädhäräni. Therefore, Jagannätha sometimes fell behind the dancing Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu to indicate to Srimaté Rädhäräni that He had not forgotten. Thus Lord Jagannätha would stop the forward march of the ratha and wait at a standstill. In this way Lord Jagannätha agreed that without the ecstasy of Srimaté Rädhäräni He could not feel satisfied. While Jagannätha was thus waiting, Gaurasundara, Caitanya Mahäprabhu, in His ecstasy of Srimaté Rädhäräni, immediately came forward to Krsna. At such times, Lord Jagannätha would proceed ahead very slowly. These competitive exchanges were all part of the love affair between Krsna and Srimaté Rädhäräni. In that competition between Lord Caitanya’s ecstasy for Jagannätha and Jagannätha’s ecstasy for Srimaté Rädhäräni, Caitanya Mahäprabhu emerged successful.

 

Bhakta Shakta,

 

Chill out, have a cup of hot chocolate and relax.

 

Gaurachandra you may have messed up on the part about having your birthday yet or not.

Yes that is solid advice from Kabir.Any of us should expect the same hammering process to fall upon our proclamations that we direct onto the works and words of others.

 

This is critical analysis and is very important.It is also a two way street.

 

We like your word play Talasiga.I may question the message from time to time as you may mine.This prompts me to play back.But this is just the jostling of schoolmates and is natural between us.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

On the letters to the editor forum I noticed a letter where there was an inquiry about sources for link Vedic thought and modern science.

 

I would like to suggest as one source the Bhaktivedanta Institute.There are several web pages for them that come up on a google search.

 

They offer accredited advanced degrees as well.

 

Here is just one with contact information.

http://www.bvinst.edu/

 

Hare Krishna

 

Satyaraja,

 

It is understood by all here that our words fall short of describing the nature of transcendance.

 

Words are indicators.What you may be doing is called mistaking the finger for the moon.

 

Distinction and oneness both exist in the Absolute.They donot cancel each other out.And since there is no material time there,simultaneousness is the only option.

 

If you have another one let us hear it.

 

Hare Krishna

MC

 

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 07-26-2001).]

Originally posted by talasiga:

Mature singers do not prefer the groupie's consonance but the discriminating fan is valued greatly even if he or she does not love every song.

Reminded me of a time in the mid 60's at a Rolling Stones concert in Seattle, when Mick Jagger stopped to thank the crowd for listening to their songs instead of screaming.

 

I now move on to the world of sleep.I fade away.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

 

Yes. Talasiga note again the definition.

 

Happening,existing,or done at the same time.

You are taking this little game too seriously Talasiga.

 

But our safe place is not found in opposition to the previous saints.

 

Haribol ji

Originally posted by talasiga:

Kabir was a greay Indian saint

whose followers fought over his dead body

because they hadnt grasped his Living Message.

 

Haridas counts not because he counted.

 

Only your ear hears "you're Kabir".

 

Since the one who counted, counted, the ones who don't yet, should.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 07-25-2001).]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

 

This doctrine would reject Sri Caitanya's doctrine of simultaneous acintya bedha-abheda because the later can be related only to the three phases of time. In a timeless circumstance, (an absolute time where the concept of 'simultaneous' is meaningless) this theory is meaningless.

 

 

Or just the exact opposite Satyaraja.

 

American Heritage Dictionary says:

Simultaneous 1.Happening,existing, or done at the same time.

 

In terms of transcendance, the eternal now.Unity in diversity.

 

Time to change hats back.The 'one size fits all' one you tried on doesn't fit.

 

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 07-25-2001).]

 

Originally posted by talasiga:

That is a proper Medieval perspective.

 

Is the sound of Krishna

a thousand snickers?

 

Talasiga says:

Better to drown

in One Utterance Holy

than to surf the Many.

 

Maitreya says:

Better to down

one draught only.

Pour any more

And you'll think

you're Kabir.

 

Talasiga, remember Haridas counted.

 

 

Yes to jijaji's observation Satyaraja.Lay back on some grass and just watch the clouds float by for a while.NO BOOKS, just look for Hari's face in the cloud formations.

 

Lil' brother,

MC

Well that certainly puts things back in the proper perspective.

 

I'm in trouble.

 

McFallen

Jndas,

 

Sorry for the multiple posts.My browser just flipped out.Or is it Hari just sporting about?Hmmm...?

 

I've rebooted and it looks okay now.I am sure you will delete them.Sorry.

 

atma,cellulitis is different from cellulite.Are you thinking of that?That cottage cheese pattern women get especially on the thighs?

 

I got some bacteria trapped under the skin and it entered my blood stream.I woke up Sunday to this bright red streak running up a vein.It had reached my inner thigh.Blood poisoning.Not too painfull but very dangerous.

 

I'm fed up.Very tired of trying to play with Hari on this third class playground composed of the three gunas.I'm tired of playing pretend that my suffering is bliss.How about you?Let's go Home,back(?) to loving Krishna.

 

YS MC

 

 

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

 

You termed material creation, maintenance and destruction as a so-called lilas that we are all supposed to be engaged in with Hari, and that these activities just don't fit your present conception of lila. But Bhagavata Purana's 2nd Canto, supported by Vedanta's (2.1.33) clearly state that these activities are Hari's lilas, and that these lilas are very difficult to understand.

 

 

O King, the rivers are the veins of the gigantic body, the trees are the hairs of His body, and the omnipotent air is His breath. The passing ages are His movements, and His activities are the reactions of the three modes of material nature.SB 2.1.33

 

In this section the virat-rupa is being described.

 

Do you consider that Krishna's lila in Goloka is comparably equal to His represented activities as the three gunas?

Originally posted by talasiga:

Talasiga fully agrees with the proposition that "the faith in one's heart is primary over the pronunciation". Unfortunately the story posted by jndas, which is supposed to demonstrate this, does the CONTRARY !

 

The story implies that, at the time of death, if you accidentally or incidentally make any sound which happens to reflect the correct pronunciation of a Divine Name, then you will be delivered EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY LOVE, FAITH, DEVOTION OR THOUGHT OF GOD !

 

This is BIZARRE.

 

With supporting stories like this who needs atheists? I think I'll e-mail shvu - maybe we can go to a movie or something......

Not so bizarre talasiga.I believe the story illusrtates a type of namabhasa called sanketa, of which there are two kinds.

 

This is discussed in Harinama Cintamani.

 

The power of the name

Ain't no game.

 

Contains power within

To save from sin.

 

You see

This namabhasa

Is one lucky rasa.

 

So

At the time of death

With one's last breath,

 

Somehow or other

Even calling brother

 

Chant the name

Chant the name

Chant the name

 

 

Satyaraj:Sruti and Gita states that the jivas are the support of this material world, that is a place meant to Hari's lilas.

 

Jivas support this world by our misdirected desires.The Lord kindly allows some facility for us to work them out of our system.In other words to beat our heads against the wall until we become exhausted enough to listen to reason.

 

Satyaraja, please explain the nature of these so-called lilas that we are all supposed to be engaged in with Hari.The activities just don't fit my present conception of lila.Like the 'World War's lila' where people are bombed and gassed.Or the living beings getting 'smashed by trucks in the street lila'.How about the 'being eaten alive lila' that lower forms are experiencing.

Other than rescuing the living entities please detail how Hari is relishing sporting in this way.

 

Some others prefer the inference that jiva's fall down was caused by his misdeeds, and this material is a kind of a prison house. This is also the Semitic point of view stressed in Bible. Some may consider it as a perpetual prison, others as a temporary prison.

 

Prision refers to being bound in avidya.What does baddha-jiva mean?

 

 

Acttualy I personally prefer the theology that consider Hari as merciful, sportive and a joker, whose lilas are impossible to understand. Jivas are His minute and fragile parts and parcels, Hari would never be a sadist who places these defenseless jivas into a prison house. This is not His nature.

 

You are trying to have it both ways.You say Hari would never send defenseless jivas into a prision house.We agree, He didn't, we did.

 

But then you do say He sends everyone into the material dimension.How can you deny material life is a imprisioned state?

 

Hari thinks it is.Not for Him,but for us. That is why He comes from time to time or sends His representitive to reform us.

 

Please explain according to your theories, what is meant by baddha-jiva.

 

YS MC

 

 

Yeah Jndas, you can put in with those souls that Hari missed when passing out the satisfaction.I don't blame Him though, my mistake.

 

The glorious thing is His kindly expanding Himself as Supersoul for us that we may someday be reclaimed.

 

Doc Satyaraja, thanks for the well wishes. I am taking my medicine as prescribed.I am fast approaching 50 and am trying to take everything as a wake up call.

 

It is fascinating in a ghastly sort of way, to see one's body just start to rot right off oneself.

 

LOL and chant!

 

YS MC

Hey Jndas,

 

I remember reading within the last two or three weeks something about a virus being sent to devotee's web sites.

 

Someone had their files erased or something.

 

YS MC

 

Originally posted by shvu:

Maitreya,

 

How do you explain Gita 18.61 in relation to the above incident? What if it had happened accidentally without you doing a thing?

 

Thanx

 

Hare Krishna Shvu,

 

I agree that Supersoul is directing the wandering of all conditioned souls.But based on what criteria are we placed in diverse situations?Others at the hospital were in worse shape?

 

In the section of BG that you refered to Krishna is trying to persuade Arjuna to act according to His direction.He taught the Gita and then told Arjuna to do as he wished.So free will was there.It's minute and hard to perceive apart from our conditioning I admit.

 

I don't believe in accidents or chance Shvu.From our perspective we talk like that in common discussions perhaps, but ultimately I accept the Supreme Controller.

 

MC

 

 

 

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Jndas: We should ask ourselves why this Jiva Hari is taking part in the creation lila and not the Vaikuntha lila, and why has Hari put us in the suffering lila and not the ananda lila?

 

Satyaraj: "The motive of the Lord in creating the world is a mere sport only, as we see in ordinary life' (Vedanta 2.1.33)

 

Therefore Badarayana Rsi refutes all sort of theories and theologies that try to explain Hari's 'modus operandi' are not sanctioned by sruti. Sankhya, vaisesika, pasupata, jaina, sunyam, yoga, and sakta, etc. are all strongly refuted by Vedanta-sutras (2.2.1-45).

 

'Modus operandi' = the way that Hari plays His lilas.

Satyaraja,

 

Last Friday night while trying to pop a blister on my big toe I managad to start a case of cellulitis.This resulted in my spending yesterday at the emergency unit of the hospital receiving blood checks and iv antibiotics.I go back today.

 

My question is. is that Hari's lila or a result of my own foolishness?I think the latter.

 

Why would Hari place me by force in the world of suffering instead of Vaikuntha?What kind of sport is this?

 

Surely not for His pleasure in my suffering.That would be sadistic.To teach a lesson?All we can learn from our material sojourn's seems to be that Vaikuntha is the place to be as this is just a land of suffering.

 

When I read some of your posts you seem to be negating the jiva souls participation in it's own fate.

 

Am I misunderstanding you?

oà namo bhagavate väsudeväya

janmädy asya yato ’nvayäd itarataç cärtheñv abhijïaù svaräö

tene brahma hådä ya ädi-kavaye muhyanti yat sürayaù

tejo-väri-mådäà yathä vinimayo yatra tri-sargo ’måñä

dhämnä svena sadä nirasta-kuhakaà satyaà paraà dhémahi

 

Why don't we just agree the above is now the standard.Just kidding of course.I can't read it.

 

I have found it interesting how this nit- picking has interupted the flow of the topic which was Faith and Intelligence.

 

Is there a lesson here?

 

 

Ananga,was that your article or one from a certain web site?

 

 

Originally posted by jndas:

A secondary question would be what causes certain cells to cease reproducing, and thereby "refreshing" the body.

This is an interesting question.Perhaps Satyaraja can speak to it.I know one of the latest findings on aging is that everytime the cells divide the ends of the DNA[forgot the name]suffer some damage.This results in a slow but steady deterioration systemicaly throughout the body.

 

I wonder if they just weaken to the point where they start to die off.Hmmmm....anyone?