Maitreya

Went to Dharma-mela this morning only to find Rocana and Jahnava are busy redoing the site.

It will now be on a registration basis,like here.

This I am sure will be viewed as a black day for some.It's dawn for others.I welcome the change myself.

MC

Originally posted by jndas:

Sorry for being late. I wasn't able to check the forums lately. If anyone see's something objectionable, please send me an email. jndas@

JNdas prabhu,

You weren't late.You took care of the problem within just a few hours.It's appreciated.A great contrast to another popular forum where great souls are regularly kicked on with impunity.

YS MC

YS MC

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 08-18-2001).]

He is so watch and tape it.

That was funny.Ajah will appreciate it when he sobers up.

Originally posted by amanpeter:

Voyeur=lurking and `learning` without revealing oneself, wouldn't you say?

No that is called auditing a class.

I will reveal myself as soon as I find myself.Until then it's just the three gunas changing position.

Back to keeping an eye on those nasty abortionists.They should be made to feel the heat,don't you think?

So that is where that camera is.I'll look for it next time at sproul.randOM has eyes everywhere.

So secretive petey?Are you refering to your old requests fron VNN when you were asking about peoples sex lives?

Okay here was my day so far.Asleep at 12:30 am.Up at 7:45.Forums, a little excercise, watched a little news on TV,temple, japa, lunch, japa,read an old Back to Godhead,talked a little with the devotees, just got home and am watching boxing and will soon be on the excercycle.Now wasn't that exciting?Use your imagination for the rest of the night when I usually grow fangs and patrol the neighborhood.

I picture peter as a voyuer.But don't tell me.

We know the baby killing crowd prefers to enact their foul deeds in private,under the cloak of darkness.Tough.

Originally posted by jndas:

"All these three views of those realized sages are in complete agreement with each other due to the absence of error in the scientific evidence of the divine revelation."

How am I to understand this JNdas?On one hand I can see that some vaisnavas may place more emphasis on oneness while others place more on distinction, not intending to cancel the other out.Lord Caitanya's vision seems more full and balanced to me.While the mayavada angle seems very lacking and incomplete.

Could you expound on this some more to help me understand the Thakurs words?

Thanks,

Maitreya

Originally posted by talasiga:

While the words are out playing

Meaning is preparing their meal

When the Lord comes home

They will all dine together

Rather grand feast,

Or meal of simpler faire.

Words with loving meaning offered,

Dispell the hunger of despair.

When Vasudeva reached the house of Nanda Maharaja, he saw that all the cowherd men were fast asleep.Thus he placed his own son on the bed of Yashoda,picked up her daughter, an expansion of Yogamaya, and then returned to his residence, the prison house of Kamsa.SB 10.3.51

From universe to universe,

At a constant steady pace.

Baby Krishna yawns and cries,

Mother Yashoda awakens to His face.

Somewhere the Sun is always rising.

This is the section of Prabhupada's introduction to the Bhagavad-gita that I refered to:

That destination is called the sanätana sky, the eternal, spiritual sky. In this material world we find that everything is temporary. It comes into being, stays for some time, produces some by-products, dwindles and then vanishes. That is the law of the material world, whether we use as an example this body, or a piece of fruit or anything. But beyond this temporary world there is another world of which we have information. That world consists of another nature, which is sanätana, eternal. Jiva is also described as sanätana, eternal, and the Lord is also described as sanätana in the Eleventh Chapter. We have an intimate relationship with the Lord, and because we are all qualitatively one—the sanätana-dhäma, or sky, the sanätana Supreme Personality and the sanätana living entities—the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gitä is to revive our sanätana occupation, or sanätana-dharma, which is the eternal occupation of the living entity. We are temporarily engaged in different activities, but all of these activities can be purified when we give up all these temporary activities and take up the activities which are prescribed by the Supreme Lord. That is called our pure life.

The Supreme Lord and His transcendental abode are both sanätana, as are the living entities, and the combined association of the Supreme Lord and the living entities in the sanätana abode is the perfection of human life. The Lord is very kind to the living entities because they are His sons. Lord Krsna declares in Bhagavad-gétä, sarva-yoniñu. .. ahaà béja-pradaù pitä: “I am the father of all.” Of course there are all types of living entities according to their various karmas, but here the Lord claims that He is the father of all of them. Therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls, to call them back to the sanätana eternal sky so that the sanätana living entities may regain their eternal sanätana positions in eternal association with the Lord. The Lord comes Himself in different incarnations, or He sends His confidential servants as sons or His associates or äcäryas to reclaim the conditioned souls.

Therefore, sanätana-dharma does not refer to any sectarian process of religion. It is the eternal function of the eternal living entities in relationship with the eternal Supreme Lord. Sanätana-dharma refers, as stated previously, to the eternal occupation of the living entity. Sripäda Rämänujäcärya has explained the word sanätana as “that which has neither beginning nor end,” so when we speak of sanätana-dharma, we must take it for granted on the authority of Sripäda Rämänujäcärya that it has neither beginning nor end.

The English world religion is a little different from sanätana-dharma. Religion conveys the idea of faith, and faith may change. One may have faith in a particular process, and he may change this faith and adopt another, but sanätana-dharma refers to that activity which cannot be changed. For instance, liquidity cannot be taken from water, nor can heat be taken from fire. Similarly, the eternal function of the eternal living entity cannot be taken from the living entity. Sanätana-dharma is eternally integral with the living entity. When we speak of sanätana-dharma, therefore, we must take it for granted on the authority of Sripäda Rämänujäcärya that it has neither beginning nor end. That which has neither end nor beginning must not be sectarian, for it cannot be limited by any boundaries. Those belonging to some sectarian faith will wrongly consider that sanätana-dharma is also sectarian, but if we go deeply into the matter and consider it in the light of modern science, it is possible for us to see that sanätana-dharma is the business of all the people of the world—nay, of all the living entities of the universe.

Non-sanätana religious faith may have some beginning in the annals of human history, but there is no beginning to the history of sanätana-dharma, because it remains eternally with the living entities. Insofar as the living entities are concerned, the authoritative sästras state that the living entity has neither birth nor death. In the Gitä it is stated that the living entity is never born and he never dies. He is eternal and indestructible, and he continues to live after the destruction of his temporary material body. In reference to the concept of sanätana-dharma, we must try to understand the concept of religion from the Sanskrit root meaning of the word. Dharma refers to that which is constantly existing with a particular object. We conclude that there is heat and light along with the fire; without heat and light, there is no meaning to the word fire. Similarly, we must discover the essential part of the living being, that part which is his constant companion. That constant companion is his eternal quality, and that eternal quality is his eternal religion.

When Sanätana Gosvämi asked Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu about the svarüpa of every living being, the Lord replied that the svarüpa, or constitutional position, of the living being is the rendering of service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If we analyze this statement of Lord Caitanya’s, we can easily see that every living being is constantly engaged in rendering service to another living being. A living being serves other living beings in various capacities. By doing so, the living entity enjoys life. The lower animals serve human beings as servants serve their master. A serves B master, B serves C master, and C serves D master and so on. Under these circumstances, we can see that one friend serves another friend, the mother serves the son, the wife serves the husband, the husband serves the wife and so on. If we go on searching in this spirit, it will be seen that there is no exception in the society of living beings to the activity of service. The politician presents his manifesto for the public to convince them of his capacity for service. The voters therefore give the politician their valuable votes, thinking that he will render valuable service to society. The shopkeeper serves the customer, and the artisan serves the capitalist. The capitalist serves the family, and the family serves the state in the terms of the eternal capacity of the eternal living being. In this way we can see that no living being is exempt from rendering service to other living beings, and therefore we can safely conclude that service is the constant companion of the living being and that the rendering of service is the eternal religion of the living being.

Yet man professes to belong to a particular type of faith with reference to particular time and circumstance and thus claims to be a Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or an adherent of any other sect. Such designations are non—sanätana-dharma. A Hindu may change his faith to become a Muslim, or a Muslim may change his faith to become a Hindu, or a Christian may change his faith and so on. But in all circumstances the change of religious faith does not affect the eternal occupation of rendering service to others. The Hindu, Muslim or Christian in all circumstances is servant of someone. Thus, to profess a particular type of faith is not to profess one’s sanätana-dharma. The rendering of service is sanätana-dharma.

Factually we are related to the Supreme Lord in service. The Supreme Lord is the supreme enjoyer, and we living entities are His servitors. We are created for His enjoyment, and if we participate in that eternal enjoyment with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we become happy. We cannot become happy otherwise. It is not possible to be happy independently, just as no one part of the body can be happy without cooperating with the stomach. It is not possible for the living entity to be happy without rendering transcendental loving service unto the Supreme Lord.

In the Bhagavad-gitä, worship of different demigods or rendering service to them is not approved. It is stated in the Seventh Chapter, twentieth verse:

kämais tais tair håta-jïänäù

prapadyante ’nya-devatäù

taà taà niyamam ästhäya

prakåtyä niyatäù svayä

“Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.” Here it is plainly said that those who are directed by lust worship the demigods and not the Supreme Lord Krsna. When we mention the name Krsna, we do not refer to any sectarian name. Krsna means the highest pleasure, and it is confirmed that the Supreme Lord is the reservoir or storehouse of all pleasure. We are all hankering after pleasure. Änanda-mayo ’bhyäsät (Vedänta-sütra 1.1.12). The living entities, like the Lord, are full of consciousness, and they are after happiness. The Lord is perpetually happy, and if the living entities associate with the Lord, cooperate with Him and take part in His association, then they also become happy.

Hare Krishna

MC

Originally posted by shvu:

 

 

This is why I was wondering where you got the info from.

 

Cheers

shvu, from the introduction to the Bhagavad-gita As It Is by Bhaktivedanta Swami.

Hare Krishna

Originally posted by shvu:

 

(btw a person can be a worshipper of Vishnu [Vaishnava] and still be an 'impersonalist')

 

Cheers

shvu, I accept that Vaisnavism in its proper full expression is a post liberation activity.It is completely without motivation for gain of any kind including mukti.

I know some like to pick a murti of some deva and try to ride their worship of that deity into the deity and merge therein thinking they will become the deity.They call that bhakti-yoga.They call themselves vaisnavas perhaps.

You also know that that definition of Vaisnavism is not accepted by all.I don't accept it myself.You seem to.So it is not possible for me to convince you or you to convince me.Leaving us, in a friendly way, agreeing to disagree.

Hare Krishna,

Maitreya

Originally posted by talasiga:

These emotions are the substance of the soul

Those who turn towards the Divine

see the illumination within them

Those who turn away

see shadows

 

The Vallabhi-s host many spiritual masters

With their art of Raag music

they explore these emotions

to their very Source

 

Have you heard this mysterious music

Played at different times of the day

Or might you have seen It

In that One Glance

of Abhay Charan De ?

 

Bhairavi Thumri talasiga@hotmail.com

 

 

Talasiga,you are really on today,

Run with it,

Dance with it,

Sing with it,

Let your words play.

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Maitreya: Converting from one religious designation to another will not be of much value to us... Such instruction has been kindly given to the world by His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami in the form of His books and distribution of the chanting of Hare Krishna.

 

Satyaraj: That is simple fantastic! Now His Divine Grace is not a missionary anymore! He just has instructed: "Be a good Christian, worship Jesus and chant Hare Krsna!" For certain his books are on Christianism too!? An Indian version on Gospels?! And his Iskcon is a Roman Synagogue.

Satyaraja,

What are you mumbling about?Read the book of John and tell me you don't see Vaisnavism.In the past you said you consider that John wrote that book from the position of sahaja-samadhi.

Everyday its a new Satyaraja.I can't keep up.

Hare Krishna,

MC

Originally posted by shvu:

Maitreya,

 

Where did you get this information from? What is Sanathana Dharma, when moderately expressed?

 

Thanx

Service is the inescapable function of the soul.It's finest expression is when it is freely offered to God in the mood of love.Vaisnavism.

Since the mayic worlds are also Krishna the soul is always serving Him in some form and in some fashion.But it is less than fine as bhakti is not present.

Sources are any Vaisnava's literature.You don't accept the personalist viewpoint so why would I waste time trying to convince you.Just as you would be wasting time trying to convince me of the impersonalist path.

We just agree to disagree shvu.

Ajay, I apologize if I misunderstood your post.I'm not sure if I did, but may have.

Hare Krishna

MC

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 08-13-2001).]

Originally posted by Ajay Shah:

In my opinion, a Hindu (Aryan) is someone who is born in a Hindu family.

 

Humbly,

A.J. SHAW.

 

 

Ajay,respectful I ask you to consider this point carefully.

The Sanatan Dharma is inspearable from the soul as liquidity is from water.It exists independently from any religous rituals or genetic coding.This quality of ours[the souls]is service and when most finely expressed is called Vaisnavism.

Being a part of the very fabric of our being it is open to all irrespective of birth, caste or religious affiliation.

Sabrina, we all have an eternal connection with Krishna[God] that is eternal.It predates the universe.Converting from one religious designation to another will not be of much value to us.

What we need is the correct instruction on how to awaken to our higher nature.That instruction must come from one who is himself awakened.

Such instruction has been kindly given to the world by His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami in the form of His books and distribution of the chanting of Hare Krishna.

You do not require the permission of anyone to take it up.We need only accept the gift.

Hare Krishna

MC

Today is the holy day of the blessed appearance of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada.

A day for some extra reflection on the love and concern he showed for us, the inmates of Martya-loka,and how he worked tirelessly to bring us to the light of freedom in pure love for Krishna.

The best present to offer him would be for his disciples to leave the past behind and move forward with renewed vigor in pushing on the distribution of the Holy Name and the bhakti sastra.And for the rest of us to aid them.

Dear Sri Krishna, we bow down before your humble devotee and only ask that you grant us a true appreciation for the matchless gifts he has so kindly brought to us.

Jaya Jagat Guru!

Hare Krishna

Taliban are such demons.The foriengers should be sure to leave the dust from their shoes as they exit.

Thanks Gauracandra,

What channel please?Probably doesn' play in Berkeley but its worth looking for.

MC

I have mixed feelings about the filming of festivals like Janmastami.Not about the filming of the Deities really.It's more when I suddenly notice the camera being panned around that it seems like a distraction.

Maybe its because I know I dance like a goose and sing like a frog.The thought of that being captured on film is hard on my ego.

But to have arati's from around the world being just a click away is a wonderful idea, as long as the focus was on Their Lordships worship.

Originally posted by leyh:

Dear Maitreya:

I think I might have misunderstood the spirit of your words.I have heard the word "homo" used in a mocking or derogratory manner before and I assumed you were using it in the same way.I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

 

Dear leyh,

I have in the past often mocked souls caught in that awkward condition.I personally have had many negative experiences with gays in the past.I don't accept the term homophobia either.

I will avoid gay men when ever possible.It is just a strange unworkable dynamic.But I am trying not to feel the attachment of disgust towards them as well.This in an effort to free myself from any connection to them.

At the same time I can't just sit by as they try to condition the vaisnava community to their queer views without saying something.

I guess I am saying you don't owe me any apology.I was trying to be objective but I am really not at that level yet, so what you thought you picked up was probably present.

May we all be pleasing to Lord Krishna and His beloved devotee Srila Prabhupada,especially on these next couple of days.

Hare Krishna leyh

LOL That's it.

And then the liberal,all filled with compassion went to lobby his congressperson to increase taxes on the rich to build more welfare offices to aid all the other homeless fellows.

This was taken up by the Congress with all earnestness.

Taxes went up so much though that the conservative businessman could not afford to hire any new help and even had to lay off the first homelessman that he had subsequently hired.

The liberal then denounced him as heartless.