leyh

In his Purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam4.14.32, Srila Prabhupada wrote: "One should not at any time tolerate blasphemy and insults against Lord Visnu or His devotees. A devotee is generally very humble and meek, and he is reluctant to pick a quarrel with anyone. Nor does he envy anyone. However, a pure devotee immediately becomes fiery with anger when he sees that Lord Vishnu or His devotees is insulted. This is the duty of a devotee. Although a devotee maintains an attitude of meekness and gentleness, it is a great fault on his part if he remains silent when the Lord or His devotee is blasphemed." I don't know whether anyone here has ever experienced this,but at some point or other,I have met people who have made what at best can be considered irreverent (and at worse,rude)remarks about Krsna or my worship of Krsna.There were times when I have gotten really angry about these remarks and there were times when I quietly decide to let go and afterwards wonder whether I should have gotten angry or not. At what point should we "become fiery with anger"? Should we instantly explode upon hearing someone jokingly call Krsna "that blue god" or if people make snide remarks about Krsna's stealing of the gopis' clothes? What if someone says: "There is no God.Its all make-believe."? Should we be angry immediately? I'm sure many people who take cheap shots at Krsna are just naive and simply exploding with fury in their face might not exactly be good PR for Krsna Consciousness... I guess that kind of anger Srila Prabhupada was referring to cannot even be planned.Its just a spontaneous emotion that one feels upon hearing blasphemy of the Lord and/or His devotees.The fact that I am wondering when to be angry is ample evidence that I am still far from being a devotee --- a servant of God who cannot bear to hear his Master or his Master's friends being insulted.

Yes.Misguided intelligence.

I'm not saying that Krsna is incapable of humour.One of things I find attractive about Krsna is His irreverent side.For example in His joking request to Rukmini to abandon Him and find another husband.But the battlefield of Kuruksetra was a serious occasion and Arjuna's dilemma was a crisis and it was not a time and place for jokes,as confirmed by Srila Prabhupada in his purport to Bhagavad-gita 2.7: "Being intelligent, Arjuna could understand that his affection for family members and his wish to protect them from death were the causes of his perplexities. Although he could understand that his duty to fight was awaiting him, still, on account of miserly weakness, he could not discharge the duties. He is therefore asking Lord Krsna, the supreme spiritual master, to make a definite solution. He offers himself to Krsna as a disciple. He wants to stop friendly talks. Talks between the master and the disciple are serious, and now Arjuna wants to talk very seriously before the recognized spiritual master. (italics added)" [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 06-16-2002).]

Hi JRdd: Its nice to hear from you again!

Bhagavad-gita was spoken on a battlefield before a great world war and Arjuna was facing a serious moral dilemma.I don't think Krsna would joke under such circumstances.It was a crisis situation.Besides,what's so funny about intelligent women? They do exist,you know. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 06-16-2002).]

Recently,in the course of my reading of Bhagavad-gita As It Is, I detected an apparent contradiction in the subject of women and intelligence.In his purport to Bhagavad-gita 1.40 ("When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of the family become corrupt, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny."),His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada wrote: "According to Canakya Pandita, women are generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy." But later on,in his purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.34 ("I am all-devouring death, and I am the generator of all things yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, speech, memory, intelligence, faithfulness and patience."),Srila Prabhupada writes: "The six opulences listed are considered to be feminine. If a woman possesses all of them or some of them she becomes glorious." So if intelligence,which is one of the six opulences listed in Bhagavad-gita10.34 as feminine,why should women be considered "generally not very intelligent"? There seems to be a contradiction here.Any suggestions as to how it can be resolved? (Subesequently re-edited for various typing mistakes) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 06-15-2002).] [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 06-17-2002).]

Does anyone have any idea when bead bags came into use by devotees? Were they being used in Vedic times?

Does anyone have any idea when bead bags came into use by devotees? Were they being used in Vedic times?

I remember that some days ago,I was sitting on a public bus listening to a recording of a Ratha-yatra kirtan led by HH Indradyumna Swami (which I had recorded from the Internet) on a walkman when I saw a van with a Jagannatha sticker on it.If I remember correctly,there were two Jagananatha stickers on the van.I like to think that it was the Lord's way of saying hi. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 06-02-2002).]

Hi Shvu: Of course I cannot speculate as to where Srila Prabhupada got his source of information, but stating that the material world is a prison-house is surely in line with the teachings of Krsna.In the Bhagavad-gita, it is stated: bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah "After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare." (Bhagavad-gita 7.19) This verse indicates that it is due to ignorance of Krsna as the cause of all causes that living entities undergo many births and deaths. Elsewhere in Bhagavad-gita, it is stated: ahankaram balam darpam kamam krodham ca samsritah mam atma-para-dehesu pradvisanto 'bhyasuyakah tan aham dvisatah kruran samsaresu naradhaman ksipamy ajasram asubhan asurisv eva yonisu "Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blasphemes against the real religion. Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life." (i]Bhagavad-gita 16.18-19) In my opinion, the above verses could support the "Prison-house" teaching.

Hi Karthik Prabhu: I¡¯m sorry if I have offended you but I was writing on the basis of Krsna Consciousness. You may not share the same cell as Mother Teresa,but you and I most certainly share, or rather used to share (since she has already passed away) the same prison house with her.This material world is,according to Srila Prabhupada,a prison house for rebellious living entities: "This material world is just like a prison-house, a punishing place just to bring us to that point of becoming disgusted and surrendering at last to Krishna, going back to my original mature of eternal life of bliss and complete knowledge." (His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, letter to Lynne Ludwig,30 April, 1973) "This material world is compared to a prison, and just as prisoners represent only a small percentage of the total population, so the living entities within the material world constitute but a fragmental portion of all living entities. Those who have revolted against God--who are criminal--are placed in this material world. Sometimes criminals say that they don't care for the government, but nonetheless they are arrested and punished. Similarly, living entities who declare their defiance of God are placed in the material world."(Science of Self Realization by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, A Definition of God, found in Chapter 1) So if we are conditioned soul living in this material world,we are factually criminals. Once in a while certain nitya-siddhas, saktyavesa avataras (empowered incarnations) or poorna avataras (complete incarnations) descend into this material world. Do you belong to any of these categories? If you are a nitya-siddha , saktyavesa avatara a poorna avatara,or even a pure devotee of Krsna then I humbly and sincerely beg your forgiveness for my mistake at having relegated you to the position of criminal which is shared by the majority of living entities on this planet. However, If you are a conditioned soul like myself, then I have to respectfully present the verdict of Krsna Consciousness: you and I are factually both criminals who have been sent to the prison house of this material world for trying to enjoy independently from Krsna.We may be criminals on the path to rehabilitation,but nevertheless,we are still serving our term. I hope that I have not offended you with my choice of words,Prabhu. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 05-28-2002).]

When respect is not given where it is due, Mahaprabhu cannot tolerate that. He says in Sri Chaitanya charihimita, maryada-langhan ami na paro sahite- "I cannot tolerate transgressions of the standard etiquette of giving appropriate, respect." just to teach us, this example is given in Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita. When Mahaprabhu was angry at Jagadananda Pandit for giving instruction to Sri Sanatan Goswami, He told Sri Sanatan Goswami, "Jaga who was born yesterday has the audacity to give you instruction!" Of course this is their pastime only to teach us. If we give everyone their due respect, the Supreme Lord will be pleased with us.(Srila Bhakti Pramod Puri Goswami Maharaja, A Life Of Devotion) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 05-27-2002).]

Ram: It's one thing to expose injustice,but its quite another thing to arrogantly condemn someone as a "cheap criminal" when we ourselves have criminal tendencies. Two criminals are in a cell.One says to the other:"What are you in for?" "I was busted for drug trafficking." "You cheap criminal!" See the irony? Of course when one detects hypocrisy or injustice,it is one's duty to expose them.But can't this be done in a dignified and humble manner?

Instead of pointing the finger at alleged criminals,maybe we should pay more attention to our own criminality.All of us,whether knowingly or unknowingly commit offences every day and if the material world is a prison for living entities who misuse their independence(as Srila Prabhupada teaches)then are we not all criminals too? In the Bible, the following words of transcendental advice from Jesus are recorded:"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." (Matthew 7:3-5) [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 05-24-2002).]

This is not directly related to the above article,but often when I tell people that I worship Krsna,the question always pops up:"Is that part of Hinduism?" I sometimes reply:"Something like that."or if the circumstances are favourable,I would explain that Krsna is not an Indian or a Hindu god.He is God and He is for the whole human society. As an aspiring devotee of Krsna,do I consider myself a Hindu? The answer would be in the negative.The word "Hindu" is a material designation and,according to Srila Prabhupada,a term concocoted by Muslims living in the North of India based on a mispronounciation of the word "Sindhu". Although Hinduism and Krsna Consciousness does share a common Vedic heritage,the two are more like two sons from the same father who have gone their seperate ways while retaining some family similarities.Popular Hinduism can be said to be a set of vague beliefs with no firm doctrinal basis. During his preaching mission,Srila Prabhupada pointed out on several occasions that Krsna Consciousness has nothing to do with Hinduism.In a 1970 letter to a temple administrator in Los Angeles, Srila Prabhupada wrote: "The Hindu community in the West has got some good feeling for me because superficially they are seeing that I am spreading Hindu religion, but factually this Krishna Consciousness movement is neither Hindu religion nor any other religion." In an interview with Bhavan's Journal on June 28, 1976, Srila Prabhupada remarked: "India, they have given up the real religious system, Sanatana Dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. Therefore there is trouble." Soon after Srila Prabhupada arrived in America,he was invited by some churches church governed schools and colleges and in a letter to Madam Sumati Morarji Baisaheba, the lady who had given him free passage on board the Jaladuta,he wrote about his experience speaking in those colleges: When I was speaking to the students they were very much eagerly hearing me about the principles of Srimad-Bhagavatam rather the clergymen were cautious to allow the students to hear me so patiently. They thought that the students may not be converted into Hindu ideas as it is quite natural for any religious sect. But they do not know that the devotional service of the Lord (Sri Krishna) is the common religion for every one including the aborigines and the cannibals in the jungles." (Letter to Madam Sumati Morarji Baisaheba,October 27, 1965) IMHO,devotees of Krsna should be concerned not with Hinduism,but sanantana-dharma --- the eternal occupation of the living entity.This sanantana-dharma is not any "ism", but rather it is the universal and non-sectarian heartbeat of spirituality of people all over the world. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 05-22-2002).]

Worst criminal of this century? Is she even worse then those who have planned or are still planning to unleash global terror in the name of religion? Humility is one of the fundamental pillars of Vaisnava philosophy and terms like "Criminal of the Century" should best be applied to ourselves if we aspire to be servants of the servants of the Supreme Lord.The devotee always think that he/she is the most fallen soul and the greatest criminal of the ages and that all other living entities are greater than himself or herself. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 05-21-2002).]

¡°Maybe you haven¡¯t thought about it, but you can¡¯t leave home in the morning without being dependent on most of the world. You get up in the morning, and you go the bathroom and you reach over for a sponge, and that¡¯s even given to you by a Pacific Islander. You reach over for a towel, and that¡¯s given to you by a Turk. You reach down to pick your soap, and that¡¯s given to you by a Frenchman. Then after dressing, you rush to the kitchen and you decide this morning that you want to drink a little coffee; that¡¯s poured in your cup by a South American. Or maybe this morning you prefer tea; that¡¯s poured in your cup by a Chinese. Or maybe you want cocoa this morning; that¡¯s poured in your cup by a West African. Then you reach over to get your toast, and that¡¯s given to you at the hands of an English-speaking farmer, not to mention the baker. Before you finish eating breakfast in the morning you are already dependent on more than half of the world.¡± (Martin Luther King, Jr. Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool)

"I pray daily to do my duty,retain my self-confidence,and accomplish my destiny.No one can live under the awful responsibility I have without Divine help.Frequently I feel that I don't rate it." (General George S. Patton)

"Captain,my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed.God has fixed the time for my death.I do not concern myself about that,but to be always ready,no matter when it may overtake me...that is the way all men should live,and then all would be equally brave." (Lieutenant General Thomas J."Stonewall" Jackson)

Speaking from below, hearing from above I gave a morning Bhagavatam class from the First Canto. I sat on the simple pillow asana and glorified Sukadeva Gosvami, declaring that Sukadev's giving up Brahman realization for Bhagavan realization clearly proves the superiority of Bhagavan realization.As I lectured, Prabhupada listened from his room above. When I finished speaking, Devananda challenged, "Why does Sukadev's acceptance of Bhagavan necessarily mean Bhagvan realization is superior? Perhaps it is simply his preference." I responded dutifully: " Sukadev was not alone in his rejection: the four Kumaras also rejected Brahman for Bhagavan." Devananda wasn't satisfied. Other devotees joined in and argued; some of them even became angry: "How can someone in impersonal Brahman have a personal preference? The scriptures say that we can't stay in Brahman, but that we must fall from that position.We accept what Prabhupada says and Prabhupada says Bhagavan is best!" After pounding Devananda into submission, we all filed up the winding stairs to Prabhupada's room. I reached the top first. Prabhupada looked at me and smiled, "So they have put the question to you." I nodded my head, realizing that Prabhupada had been listening to my lecture. "Prabhupada," one devotee ventured, " is it that impersonalists must fall down, or is that only most of them fall down?" Prabhupada replied, "All of them fall down." "Why?" Prabhupada was silent for several seconds. His silence accentuated the dim light that mixed with the dawn sun and illuminated his golden face. "Because - " he seemed to be thinking deeply how to explain this esoteric point to his children, " they get lonely." *** An expert teacher knows his material so thoroughly that he can explain the most complicated subject simply and clearly.(My Glorious Master by Bhurijana Dasa, pg 48)

Speaking from below, hearing from above I gave a morning Bhagavatam class from the First Canto. I sat on the simple pillow asana and glorified Sukadeva Gosvami, declaring that Sukadev's giving up Brahman realization for Bhagavan realization clearly proves the superiority of Bhagavan realization.As I lectured, Prabhupada listened from his room above. When I finished speaking, Devananda challenged, "Why does Sukadev's acceptance of Bhagavan necessarily mean Bhagvan realization is superior? Perhaps it is simply his preference." I responded dutifully: " Sukadev was not alone in his rejection: the four Kumaras also rejected Brahman for Bhagavan." Devananda wasn't satisfied. Other devotees joined in and argued; some of them even became angry: "How can someone in impersonal Brahman have a personal preference? The scriptures say that we can't stay in Brahman, but that we must fall from that position.We accept what Prabhupada says and Prabhupada says Bhagavan is best!" After pounding Devananda into submission, we all filed up the winding stairs to Prabhupada's room. I reached the top first. Prabhupada looked at me and smiled, "So they have put the question to you." I nodded my head, realizing that Prabhupada had been listening to my lecture. "Prabhupada," one devotee ventured, " is it that impersonalists must fall down, or is that only most of them fall down?" Prabhupada replied, "All of them fall down." "Why?" Prabhupada was silent for several seconds. His silence accentuated the dim light that mixed with the dawn sun and illuminated his golden face. "Because - " he seemed to be thinking deeply how to explain this esoteric point to his children, " they get lonely." *** An expert teacher knows his material so thoroughly that he can explain the most complicated subject simply and clearly.(My Glorious Master by Bhurijana Dasa, pg 48)

"I expect to pass through this world but once.Any good therefore that I can do,or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature,let me do it now.Let me not defer or neglect it,for I shall not pass this way again."(William Penn)

"The spiritual path is one of falling on your face, getting up, brushing yourself off,turning and looking sheepishly at God and then taking the next step."(Sri Aurobindo)

Hi Pritesh01 Prabhu: Please accept my humble obeisances.All Glories to Srila Prabhupada I am not an authority on Bhagavad-gita and I'm afraid I can't make any substantial contribution to this discussion,however I would like to point out that although from a Krsna Conscious point of view,it is not appropriate for non-devotees to speculate about Bhagavad-gita,such speculations do exist --- both within and without the academic world,and it is not enough to dismiss them as "Vaisnava aparadha" and pretend that they do not exist.Because people who are potential devotees might eventually ask speculative questions about Bhagavad-gita like:"How could it be possible for Krsna to give a discourse of seven hundred verses to Arjuna even though a battle was about to begin?" IMHO,Devotees should be exposed,or at least have some idea of what the mundane scholars say about Bhagavad-gita and other transcendental literatures,because like it or not,these scholars do carry some influence in this world and we need to understand the nature and the specifics of this influence to transform it. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 05-15-2002).]

"Then we discover what the spiritual life really is. It is not a matter of doing one good work rather than another, of living in one place rather than in another, of praying in one way rather than in another. It is not a matter of any special psychological effect in our own soul. It is the silence of our whole being in compunction and adoration before God, in the habitual realization that He is everything and we are nothing, that He is the Center to which all things tend, and to whom all our actions must be directed. That our life and strength proceed from Him, that both in life and in death we depend entirely on Him, that the whole course of our life is foreknown by Him and falls into the plan of His wise and merciful providence; that it is absurd to live as though without Him, for ourselves, by ourselves; that all our plans and spiritual ambitions are useless unless they come from Him and end in Him and that, in the end, the only thing that matters is His glory." (Thomas Merton, Thoughts in Solitude)