leyh

Hare Krsna,Somesh Prabhu: I must confess that I am very attracted by the external features of Krsna Consciousness --- the saffron robes, the tilak and the sikha, the Sanskrit rituals, etc. but on the other hand,I can't wondering whether in the course of time, there will be a country or even countries where Krsna Consciousness will become absorbed by another culture to such an extent that its external features will be modified while retaining its inner essence.This has been seen in all the great world religions like Buddhism and Christianity.

Dear Guest: You're right,I guess.I can say that I gave up sectarianism for Krsna.Or should I say,I'm trying to renounce sectarianism for Krsna.I have yet to succeed.

Krsna's attractive qualities are international and cut across all cultural and national boundaries.If only more people take time out to examine Him. I wonder if,in the course of time,Krsna Consciousness will break away from its Indian cultural practices like Sanskrit prayers and taking on another cultural form.Buddhism, for example was absorbed into Chinese culture and took on an entirely new exterior features like the "Chinese-nized" image of the Buddha . Change might not be a bad thing if the "new" form of Krsna Consciousness continue to retain the essence of the "old" form --- worship of the Guru,the scriptures, etc.I'm not sure whether this is a good thing,for there is a danger of dilution.Imagine a sannyasa in t-shirt and jeans reciting Vaisnava prayers in English.Not very inspiring.But maybe that's because I have been accustomed to the old form. One of the longest surviving spiritual traidtions,the Roman Catholic Church, has remained a potent spiritual force even though it retained many of the old traditions and rituals from centuries ago,albeit with some reforms like the language of the mass which no longer has to be in Latin. I wonder how the Krsna Consciousness movement one thousamd years later will be like.One part of me envisions a new image with people chanting the holy names and worshipping Krsna with features of their own culture rather then Indian culture while another part of me thinks that the movement will be very much the same as it is now --- saffron robes, dandas, Sanskrit prayers,etc.I'm not sure.But as long as Krsna is being worshipped and His names are sung in every town and village,I'm sure the exterior details won't matter very much.

Haribol,everyone. Mahak,I like what you wrote about:"relationship with the Supreme Lord" as something you'd fill on forms.A declaration like that is bound to raise more than a few eyebrows in this sectarian age. I've had to explain to friends and generally any inquirers that Krsna is not an Indian god,but God and that I am not a Hindu,but someone who worships Krsna (I hesitate to use the word "devotee". One hardly hears anyone calling Jesus a "Jewish God".He has been divorced from his Jewish tradition and internationalized.I don't know whether the same can be for Krsna because Krsna worship,in particular that found in Gaudiya Vaishnavism,is still very much rooted in Indian culture.

In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna tells us to "Abandon all varieties of religion".This instruction can be difficult to follow in a world which insists on categorizing people according to their race,nationality,religious beliefs,political views etc.We all have to fill forms where we eventually come across Religion:______________________ Usually I'd just write "Nil".Sometimes,if it's an unofficial survey or something like that I'd write "Krsna".But usually it's just "Nil". Part of the "Abandon all varieties of religion" process, I guess, is to refuse to pigeonholed by designations. I'm curious as to how those who are practicing Krsna Consciousness declare their religion on official forms.Do you put "Vaisnava", "Gaudiya Vaisnava","Hare Krishna", "Hindu" etc?

The following is an excerpt from Windows into the Infinite --- A Guide to the Hindu Scriptures by Barbara Powell. An interesting angle of vision regarding the Bhagavad-gita: Initially one might expect Krsna to applaud Arjuna's decision. After all, by embracing non-violence he appears to have assumed a morally superior stance.But Krsna knows a deeper truth.He will surprise us. "Coward!" he reprimands.'Such behaviour is unfitting to a man of your station.Get out there and fight!" Is the Gita advocating violence? Of course not.In many other places in the text, Krsna will extol gentleness and nonviolence,even passivity.If there's one generalization we can make about the Gita,it's that it embraces diversity.No one occupation, standard of conduct or spiritual path is appropriate for everyone.Different people require different paths.Arjuna is a ksatriya, a soldier by profession,and it is his moral and spiritual imperatives to attend to the duties, the dharma,of that profession.Were Arjuna a priest, a spice merchant or a housewife,Krsna would have given him very different advice,for violence is never acceptable for these people.But the question of war and peace is not the issue here at all.The issue is action and inaction.If Krsna were talking to an exhausted mother with five screaming children all needing her attention at once,she might tell Him,"Krsna,I can't face it.There's no way I can be a mom today." His reply would be,"Yes you can.In fact,you must.Get in there and fight!" (Windows into the Infinite --- A Guide to the Hindu Scriptures, Chapter Five)

Dear ethos: Thank you for your encouragement.However,if you were to look inside my soul,you would find nothing but the desire for name and fame,lust,envy and all sorts of other nonsense. However,I have a little affection for Srila Prabhupada and hopefully His Divine Grace will one day recipocrate it.As of this writing,I remain a foolish hypocrite.

Dear ethos: Thank you for your encouragement.However,if you were to look inside my soul,you would find nothing but the desire for name and fame,lust,envy and all sorts of other nonsense. However,I have a little affection for Srila Prabhupada and hopefully His Divine Grace will one day recipocrate it.As of this writing,I remain a foolish hypocrite.

After the lecture, during the time set aside for questions, a short-haired, serious-looking young man made a bold statement that surprised the audience: he had decided to live forever! Prabhupada assured him that this was impossible. "You cannot be eternal. This is a material body." The young man offered a possible scenario: "Why not make the material spiritual? Why not make everything 'all-conscious'." Prabhupada conceded that if one became Krsna conscious then he could maintain his spiritual consciousness even after giving up this body. But spiritually aware or not, the body was not eternal, and would be changed at death. The young man continued to argue: Why was it necessary to change one's body at all? Prabhupada patiently explained further: "Your body has already changed. You have come from childhood to this point. You could not remain as a child." The man was stubborn. "Well, just because my body changed up till now, it doesn't mean that it has to change in the future." "How you can?" Prabhupada challenged. "Why did you not remain as a child?" The young man decided to reveal his real identity: "Well, if I decide that I am God and I created everything..." Prabhupada spoke firmly. "Dog can decide he is God. But does it mean that he is God? As the young man's arguments became more preposterous, the devotees groaned in amazement. "Well, it's my prerogrative to decide to take the responsibility of being God..." Prabhupada would take none of his nonsense: "Why don't you decide to become President Nixon?" Man: I don't want that. Prabhupada: It is nonsense. We don't talk with this nonsense. We talk scientifically. Man: I'd rather take on the responsibility of the universe. Prabhupada: If you decide that 'I become President Nixon', can you become? Man: Yes. Prabhupada: You can become? Prabhupada paused and added dryly, "Then become." The whole audience was hanging on to every word, and laughing heartily at Prabhupada's succinct answers. First become --- then talk. If you are not becoming, and you talk, then you talk nonsense. First become God, then talk that you have become God. We have got our conception of God. God is all-powerful. Are you all powerful? Man: Yes I am. (Laughter) Prabhupada: If I give you a kick on your face, can you protest? (More laughter) The man was taken aback, Man: Well, you can kick; okay, okay, you can kick me if you want, that's your decision. Prabhupada: Then what power you have to check it? Man: The power that I have as a human being. Prabhupada: Then how you are God? You have power as a human being and you are claiming to be God. Man: But as a human being, it's my right to think... Prabhupada: That's all right, you have got right as a human being. Why are you claiming that you have become God? That is your foolishness. You must become as powerful as God, then you claim that you re God. The same thing, you first of all become President, then you claim that you are as good as President Nixon. Before that you cannot claim. You may say you have got the potency --- that I admit --- but first of all become and then you talk. God is all-powerful. When you become all-powerful, then you have become God. Man: Well then I'll have to show you... Prabhupada: But how can I believe you? If you do not show me then how can I believe you? Man: I accept the challenge. Just give me a little time. Prabhupada: That is another nonsense. (Howling laughter) Just like Arjuna wanted Krsna, 'How shall I know that you are all-powerful?' He immediately showed him the universal form. So if you are God, then you show me your universal form. Then I shall believe you. Don't believe in these nonsense ideas; you are misguided that you are God. Man: Give me something better then. I can't think of anything better than God, can you? Prabhupada: Well, you can think nonsense, you can think anything, I don't mind, but I say, 'Don't be misguided'. It is up to you. The man was finally silent. There was nothing more to say. Prabhupada asked the devotees to chant. As he picked up his shiny brass karatals, Prabhupada turned to the man and with a look of great compassion offered him one last piece of advice. "Become God-ly. Don't become God." (From The Great Transcendental Adventure by Kurma Dasa, 'Colonisation by Sankirtan' Tuesday, 13 February 1973)

After the lecture, during the time set aside for questions, a short-haired, serious-looking young man made a bold statement that surprised the audience: he had decided to live forever! Prabhupada assured him that this was impossible. "You cannot be eternal. This is a material body." The young man offered a possible scenario: "Why not make the material spiritual? Why not make everything 'all-conscious'." Prabhupada conceded that if one became Krsna conscious then he could maintain his spiritual consciousness even after giving up this body. But spiritually aware or not, the body was not eternal, and would be changed at death. The young man continued to argue: Why was it necessary to change one's body at all? Prabhupada patiently explained further: "Your body has already changed. You have come from childhood to this point. You could not remain as a child." The man was stubborn. "Well, just because my body changed up till now, it doesn't mean that it has to change in the future." "How you can?" Prabhupada challenged. "Why did you not remain as a child?" The young man decided to reveal his real identity: "Well, if I decide that I am God and I created everything..." Prabhupada spoke firmly. "Dog can decide he is God. But does it mean that he is God? As the young man's arguments became more preposterous, the devotees groaned in amazement. "Well, it's my prerogrative to decide to take the responsibility of being God..." Prabhupada would take none of his nonsense: "Why don't you decide to become President Nixon?" Man: I don't want that. Prabhupada: It is nonsense. We don't talk with this nonsense. We talk scientifically. Man: I'd rather take on the responsibility of the universe. Prabhupada: If you decide that 'I become President Nixon', can you become? Man: Yes. Prabhupada: You can become? Prabhupada paused and added dryly, "Then become." The whole audience was hanging on to every word, and laughing heartily at Prabhupada's succinct answers. First become --- then talk. If you are not becoming, and you talk, then you talk nonsense. First become God, then talk that you have become God. We have got our conception of God. God is all-powerful. Are you all powerful? Man: Yes I am. (Laughter) Prabhupada: If I give you a kick on your face, can you protest? (More laughter) The man was taken aback, Man: Well, you can kick; okay, okay, you can kick me if you want, that's your decision. Prabhupada: Then what power you have to check it? Man: The power that I have as a human being. Prabhupada: Then how you are God? You have power as a human being and you are claiming to be God. Man: But as a human being, it's my right to think... Prabhupada: That's all right, you have got right as a human being. Why are you claiming that you have become God? That is your foolishness. You must become as powerful as God, then you claim that you re God. The same thing, you first of all become President, then you claim that you are as good as President Nixon. Before that you cannot claim. You may say you have got the potency --- that I admit --- but first of all become and then you talk. God is all-powerful. When you become all-powerful, then you have become God. Man: Well then I'll have to show you... Prabhupada: But how can I believe you? If you do not show me then how can I believe you? Man: I accept the challenge. Just give me a little time. Prabhupada: That is another nonsense. (Howling laughter) Just like Arjuna wanted Krsna, 'How shall I know that you are all-powerful?' He immediately showed him the universal form. So if you are God, then you show me your universal form. Then I shall believe you. Don't believe in these nonsense ideas; you are misguided that you are God. Man: Give me something better then. I can't think of anything better than God, can you? Prabhupada: Well, you can think nonsense, you can think anything, I don't mind, but I say, 'Don't be misguided'. It is up to you. The man was finally silent. There was nothing more to say. Prabhupada asked the devotees to chant. As he picked up his shiny brass karatals, Prabhupada turned to the man and with a look of great compassion offered him one last piece of advice. "Become God-ly. Don't become God." (From The Great Transcendental Adventure by Kurma Dasa, 'Colonisation by Sankirtan' Tuesday, 13 February 1973)

Many devotees and guests had come for the Sunday feast. Prabhupada spoke strongly from Bhagavad-gita, and then asked for questions. The second or third question was more of a challenge. A young bearded man stood, claiming that Meher Baba was God, not Krsna. In an argumentative tone, he asked Prabhupada what he thought about Meher Baba. The audience was quiet and expectant. Srila Prabhupada looked lovingly at Radha-Gopinatha on the altar. "I don't know anything about these people. I only know about Krsna. Krsna is so wonderful that he lifted Govardhana Hill on his little finger for seven days." As he spoke, Prabhupada, smiling brightly, held his left hand in the air, with his little finger sticking up, while still looking at the Deity. Prabhupada's eyes widened; he turned to the man. You can have Meher Baba. We take Krsna." He paused and turned again to Gopinatha. Krsna is very beautiful. You can take Meher Baba, we take Krsna." Srila Prabhupada quickly stood, offering full obeisances before the Deities, as the devotees followed suit. A kirtana commenced and Prabhupada walked towards the temple door. He turned and spoke out humbly to the bearded young man in the crowd: Don't be misled. Don't be misled --- Krsna is very beautiful and you can know Him." (From The Great Transcendental Adventure by Kurma Dasa --- Part I Saturday, 1 April, 1972)

Many devotees and guests had come for the Sunday feast. Prabhupada spoke strongly from Bhagavad-gita, and then asked for questions. The second or third question was more of a challenge. A young bearded man stood, claiming that Meher Baba was God, not Krsna. In an argumentative tone, he asked Prabhupada what he thought about Meher Baba. The audience was quiet and expectant. Srila Prabhupada looked lovingly at Radha-Gopinatha on the altar. "I don't know anything about these people. I only know about Krsna. Krsna is so wonderful that he lifted Govardhana Hill on his little finger for seven days." As he spoke, Prabhupada, smiling brightly, held his left hand in the air, with his little finger sticking up, while still looking at the Deity. Prabhupada's eyes widened; he turned to the man. You can have Meher Baba. We take Krsna." He paused and turned again to Gopinatha. Krsna is very beautiful. You can take Meher Baba, we take Krsna." Srila Prabhupada quickly stood, offering full obeisances before the Deities, as the devotees followed suit. A kirtana commenced and Prabhupada walked towards the temple door. He turned and spoke out humbly to the bearded young man in the crowd: Don't be misled. Don't be misled --- Krsna is very beautiful and you can know Him." (From The Great Transcendental Adventure by Kurma Dasa --- Part I Saturday, 1 April, 1972)

Dear ethos: I don't quite agree with what you wrote regarding information and travelling: "I think the masses simply don't have enough information to reach their objective. To take a trip to California you have to have enough information of your destination. In other words, you watch TV or read books or communicate with someone by which you get information of California. If you don't have enough information you don't go." In practical reality,we can go to a place even if we have little or even non-existent information of a place.If the airline is efficient enough,it doesn't matter whether I have knowledge of the destination.I can go as long as I have a ticket. Translated in spiritual terms,I think a simple and sincere devotee with full faith and love of God,but not much knowledge of confidential information revealed in various scriptures has as much a chance of going back to Godhead as a learned scholar.And by the grace of the spiritual master who has brought tickets for both the unlearned and scholalry devotee,they will reach their destination. Just my humble opinion.

Dear Shvu: You write about the "simple fact" that there are no miracles in real life and that this can be observed in our day to day life. Albert Einstein once remarked: "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." You may choose to see no miracles. That is your angle of vision, which should not be mistaken for "facts and reality that can be commonly observed by one and all, without exception." The word "all" means "everyone".Have you scrutinizingly studied everyone who has ever lived to the point that you are able to speak for them? Srila Prabhupada once remarked that it is nature for everyone to think that others are like himself.You may say that the non-divinity of Krsna and Rama or the non-existence of miracles are simple facts for you.But isn't it unwise to assume that the same holds for every other person without exception? Because you have not experienced God, you assume that all others have not experienced God. Maybe you should make room for the possibility that (in the words of Shakespeare) "There are more things in Heaven and Earth,Horatio,than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Isn't the assertion that Rama and Krishna were just normal people like anyone else based on belief too? To those who choose to believe that Rama and Krishna were ordinary people,no evidence for their divinity is relevant enough.

karthik_v wrote: "Jesus, the rebel Rabbi, had no clue about soul. All he was concerned was [with himself being] the sole [way to liberation]." The above statement betrays a total lack of understanding about Jesus and his mission.I don't even know where to begin to criticize it.It's just staggering.

Dear ethos: You wrote:"Thanks for your comments transient and leyh." Thank you for serving with your words.I'm sure He won't forget your service.

'This place is a slaughterhouse. And yet the foolish two-legged animal is thinking, "I am now very comfortably situated." He forgets, "I am going to be slaughtered." Mrtyu-samsara-sagarat: "This place is an ocean of slaughter." In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna confirms it--mrtyu-samsara-sagarat. This place is a slaughterhouse. But people are accepting it as their home. Another name for this material world is mrtyu-loka. Mrtyu-loka--"the place of death." But still, they are taking it as a very comfortable place. This is their intelligence: accepting a slaughterhouse as a very nice place.'(His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Morning Walk Conversation, Denver, Colorado, June 28, 1975)

'This place is a slaughterhouse. And yet the foolish two-legged animal is thinking, "I am now very comfortably situated." He forgets, "I am going to be slaughtered." Mrtyu-samsara-sagarat: "This place is an ocean of slaughter." In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna confirms it--mrtyu-samsara-sagarat. This place is a slaughterhouse. But people are accepting it as their home. Another name for this material world is mrtyu-loka. Mrtyu-loka--"the place of death." But still, they are taking it as a very comfortable place. This is their intelligence: accepting a slaughterhouse as a very nice place.'(His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Morning Walk Conversation, Denver, Colorado, June 28, 1975)

How about this: "Spiritual life is to love and serve God."

This thread should be in the "Spiritual Discussions" forum.My mistake.JNDas Prabhu,if you ar reading this,you might consider shifting it to a more appropriate forum.My apologies.

Does anyone knows what is the Sanskrit name for Shankara's meditation on the Bhagavad-gita which His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada translated and wrote purports for? The tanslation and text can be found in Chapter 3 of Science of Self Realization by Srila Prabhupada

Dear Theist Prabhu: You wrote: "How pleasing it must be to Him to witness your concern over experiencing thoughts adverse to His devotees." These words of yours have really gladdened my heart and made me see the issue from another perspective.I am really grateful to you and all the other devotees whose merciful words I gladly receive. A grateful "Hare Krsna!" to all of you from your foolish servant here.

Dear Somesh Kumar Prabhu: Thank you for your kind words.I'm glad to be of some service.May Srila Prabhupada and Krsna be with you as well.Hare Krsna!

Dear Somesh Kumar Prabhu: Thank you for your kind words.I'm glad to be of some service.May Srila Prabhupada and Krsna be with you as well.Hare Krsna!