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Dear Mahaksadasa: Hare Krsna! I was quite surprised to read that you described the Boy Scouts as a "mormon front group". The Founder of the Boy Scouts is Lord Baden Powell of Gilwell --- an English man. Actually the Boy Scouts is not exactly a spiritual organization like ISKCON or the Roman Catholic Church. As far as I know, the focus is on building leadership skills, survival skills and team spirit. I don't think that's "ultimately worthless" --- if these qualities eventually come to be used in the service of the Supreme Lord in some other time, place and circumstance.

Shiva: As far as I know, the Scout's Promise mentions God inside, so by default, a Scout has to believe in God. To take the Scout promise without believing in God is simply dishonest. Actually, to take Scout without at least believing in some form of higher power is like someone trying to get initiated into a Vaishnava sect without any belief in Krsna or Visnu. There are plenty of Uniform groups out there for children that doesn't require an allegiance to God. The following is the text of the Scout Promise as said by the Boy Scouts of UK: "On my honour, I promise that I will do my best to do my duty to God and to the Queen,To help other people and to keep the Scout Law." Other countries have different versions, but it seems that all of them mention God. There is a webpage which shows the different versions of the Scout Promise used by Scouts in other countries: http://www.scoutingresources.org.uk/councult_promise.html Anyone who wants to be a Scout has to take the Scout Promise which more or less means that he has to have some belief in God.

I was in my secondary school's Boy Scout Troop for a few years and I really had to enjoy my time there. But I had to quit because my school work wasn't going very well and Scouting was taking up too much of time. Anyway, during the "initiation" (the proper term is "investiture"), we had to say the Scout Promise which goes something like:"I promise to do my best, to my duty to God and to the Republic of Singapore and to obey the Scout Law." I can't remember the whole Scout law, but some of its tenents were something like:"A Scout is to be trusted", "A Scout is observant" and "A Scout maintains harmonious relationships." The Founder of the Boy Scout Movement is Lord Baden Powell (1853-1941). He wrote Scouting for Boys which had a huge impact on many people. But in the Scout Troop that I was in, his portrait hung in the Den, but he was more like a benevolent symbol --- present, but hardly invoked except during important days and campfires. But he was a great man, who tried to put godly values into his Scouts --- values which, unfortunately, I have not really lived up to.

No problem, Gauracandra. Hope you enjoy the recording.

Dear Guest: I hope you are well.The doctrine of reincarnation as found in Hinduism is very scientifically and concisely explained in Bhagavad-gita which was spoken by Lord Sri Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as revealed by the Vedic literatures, to His disciple Arjuna more then 5,000 years ago on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra in India.The Bhagavad-gita is the most popular scripture of India's spiritual tradition and it's entire contents with translations and comemntaries by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktievdanta Swami Prabhupada (1896-1977) who is the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness can be found online at www.asitis.com Actually the word "Hinduism" is a misnomer, as explained by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktievdanta Swami Prabhupada (known affectionately to his followers as "Srila Prabhupada") 'Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not. One will not find the word "Hindu" in the Bhagavad-gita. Indeed, there is no such word as Hindu in the entire Vedic literature. This word has been introduced by the Muslims from provinces next to India, such as Afghanistan, Baluchistan, and Persia. There is a river called Sindhu bordering the north western provinces of India, and since the Muslims there could not pronounce Sindhu properly, they instead called the river Hindu, and the inhabitants of this tract of land they called Hindus. In India, according to the Vedic language, the Europeans are called mlecchas or yavanas. Similarly, Hindu is a name given by the Muslims.' (Science of Self Realization by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktievdanta Swami Prabhupada:Krishna Consciousness--Hindu Cult or Divine Culture?, Chapter 3) Here are my humble attempts to answer some of your questions based on my understanding of the principles of Bhagavad-gita: To what degree do we "co-operate" with "God" in choosing our next incarnation?. All living entities are endowed with minute independence, and God does not intefere with this independence. We may utilize it to engage in loving devotional service to God, or we may use it to enjoy seperately from Him. If we choose the latter option, we will continue to incarnate in this material world and be chained to gross, material bodies to suffer, but if we dovetail our independence to surrender to the Supreme Person then we will no longer take birth in this material world and go back home, back to Godhead. "So, is it random Karma or a personal God working with us to organize our next incarnation?" Karma is not random and neither is God. It is precise. Our next incarnation is simply organized by how we have led our lives in this incarnation. If we have led a life based on surrender to God, at the end of this life, we will return to Him, without a doubt. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says: janma karma ca me divyam evam yo vetti tattvatah tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti so 'rjuna "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna." (Bhagavad-gita 4.9) Does Hinduism recognize any efficacy concerning prayer, not meditation, and what I mean is does Hinduism believe that God engages with us in the course of our earthly existence in response to prayer, or does he remain "detached" and allow the outlines of Karma to interact with our free-will choices? In Bhagavad-gita 9.29, Krsna informs Arjuna that:"I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him." In the above mentioned way, God is "detached". He is equally accessible for all, but for those who actually approach to render service to Him, He takes charge of their karma. 'Actually, Krsna will change destiny--but only for His devotee. He says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami: "I shall give you all protection from all reactions of sinful activities." (Bhagavad-gita 18.66) For instance, if one is condemned by the law court to be hanged, no one can check it. Even the same judge who has given this verdict cannot check it. But if the defendant begs for the mercy of the king, who is above all the laws, then the king can check it.' (Science of Self Realization by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktievdanta Swami Prabhupada:Krishna Consciousness -- Human Society or Animal Society?, Chapter 6) So the Supreme Person is equally accessible to all. If we wish not to utilize His help, He respects our wishes and does not intefere with our independence, but at the same time He also wants us to go back home, back to Godhead. So while we are rotting in this material world, He will perodically appear personally or He mights end His representatives to persuade us that it is in our best interest to surrender to Him, for our actual position is that we are meant to serve Him. And for those who accept this advice and actually try to surrender, the Lord will provide the means by which we can gradually return to Him.It is a two way process. The Lord and His representatives extends their mercy to us, and we reach out to accept the mercy and its effects on our lives.

Dear Guest: I hope you are well.The doctrine of reincarnation as found in Hinduism is very scientifically and concisely explained in Bhagavad-gita which was spoken by Lord Sri Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as revealed by the Vedic literatures, to His disciple Arjuna more then 5,000 years ago on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra in India.The Bhagavad-gita is the most popular scripture of India's spiritual tradition and it's entire contents with translations and comemntaries by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktievdanta Swami Prabhupada (1896-1977) who is the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness can be found online at www.asitis.com Actually the word "Hinduism" is a misnomer, as explained by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktievdanta Swami Prabhupada (known affectionately to his followers as "Srila Prabhupada") 'Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not. One will not find the word "Hindu" in the Bhagavad-gita. Indeed, there is no such word as Hindu in the entire Vedic literature. This word has been introduced by the Muslims from provinces next to India, such as Afghanistan, Baluchistan, and Persia. There is a river called Sindhu bordering the north western provinces of India, and since the Muslims there could not pronounce Sindhu properly, they instead called the river Hindu, and the inhabitants of this tract of land they called Hindus. In India, according to the Vedic language, the Europeans are called mlecchas or yavanas. Similarly, Hindu is a name given by the Muslims.' (Science of Self Realization by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktievdanta Swami Prabhupada:Krishna Consciousness--Hindu Cult or Divine Culture?, Chapter 3) Here are my humble attempts to answer some of your questions based on my understanding of the principles of Bhagavad-gita: To what degree do we "co-operate" with "God" in choosing our next incarnation?. All living entities are endowed with minute independence, and God does not intefere with this independence. We may utilize it to engage in loving devotional service to God, or we may use it to enjoy seperately from Him. If we choose the latter option, we will continue to incarnate in this material world and be chained to gross, material bodies to suffer, but if we dovetail our independence to surrender to the Supreme Person then we will no longer take birth in this material world and go back home, back to Godhead. "So, is it random Karma or a personal God working with us to organize our next incarnation?" Karma is not random and neither is God. It is precise. Our next incarnation is simply organized by how we have led our lives in this incarnation. If we have led a life based on surrender to God, at the end of this life, we will return to Him, without a doubt. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says: janma karma ca me divyam evam yo vetti tattvatah tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti so 'rjuna "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna." (Bhagavad-gita 4.9) Does Hinduism recognize any efficacy concerning prayer, not meditation, and what I mean is does Hinduism believe that God engages with us in the course of our earthly existence in response to prayer, or does he remain "detached" and allow the outlines of Karma to interact with our free-will choices? In Bhagavad-gita 9.29, Krsna informs Arjuna that:"I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him." In the above mentioned way, God is "detached". He is equally accessible for all, but for those who actually approach to render service to Him, He takes charge of their karma. 'Actually, Krsna will change destiny--but only for His devotee. He says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami: "I shall give you all protection from all reactions of sinful activities." (Bhagavad-gita 18.66) For instance, if one is condemned by the law court to be hanged, no one can check it. Even the same judge who has given this verdict cannot check it. But if the defendant begs for the mercy of the king, who is above all the laws, then the king can check it.' (Science of Self Realization by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktievdanta Swami Prabhupada:Krishna Consciousness -- Human Society or Animal Society?, Chapter 6) So the Supreme Person is equally accessible to all. If we wish not to utilize His help, He respects our wishes and does not intefere with our independence, but at the same time He also wants us to go back home, back to Godhead. So while we are rotting in this material world, He will perodically appear personally or He mights end His representatives to persuade us that it is in our best interest to surrender to Him, for our actual position is that we are meant to serve Him. And for those who accept this advice and actually try to surrender, the Lord will provide the means by which we can gradually return to Him.It is a two way process. The Lord and His representatives extends their mercy to us, and we reach out to accept the mercy and its effects on our lives.

Dear Theist: Like you, I hesitate to think of myself as Srila Prabhupada's disciple but I am not so hesitant to think of him as my Guru. Because if not for him, I would have no knowledge of Krsna. A kind of paradox here. Maybe it's what I will have to live with. You right. Srila Prabhupada is Jagad-Guru. His position is such that he is still able to instruct people all over the world although he has disappeared from mundane vision. His writings and recordings are easily accessible on an international level for the whole world to benefit. In this way, he acts as Jagad-Guru I'm not saying that we shouldn't approach a living guru --- if Krsna leads us to one.However, Srila Prabhupada's Jagad-Guru position is unique. Srila Prabhupada: That is a fact. For example, if you are an animal of the land and you are thrown into the water, you cannot be happy in water in any condition. When you are again taken up a the land, then you'll be happy. Similarly, we are part and parcel of Krsna. We cannot be happy without being part and parcel of Krsna. The same example: the machine part, without the machine, has no value, but when it is again put into the machine it has value. We are part of Krsna; we must join Krsna. And you can join Krsna immediately by your consciousness, simply by thinking, "I am Krsna's, Krsna is mine:' That's all. Bob: What is that? Krsna is... Srila Prabhupada:Krsna is mine. Bob: Mine? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Mine. My Krsna. Bob: Ah. Srila Prabhupada: Krsna is mine. Krsna is mine. Bob: Yes. Srila Prabhupada: And I am Krsna's. That is our actual position. (Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers, Chapter 5) If Krsna is actually ours, then it can also be said that His pure devotee is also ours --- as ever well-wisher, friend and guide on our journey back home, back to Godhead.

Dear Gauracandra Prabhu: Try this webpage: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/gbc/73_ssm_sp.html where you can access a brief recording of a room conversation between Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you JNdas and Punkech Prabhus for your kind replies. Regarding my number of rounds chanted daily, I am trying to set a standard of eight minimum rounds. Sometimes I manage to do a little more, but usually I can manage eight. Of course this amount is nowhere near Srila Prabhupada's standard, but my goal is to eventually hit 16. If only I had more taste for following Srila Prabhupada's instructions. My spiritual life has been a succession of lows followed by a few occasional highs. Still I am grateful with what I have so far. I would have no spiritual life if not for His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

I was born about half a year after His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada dpearted from this material world. I never got to meet him on the physical plane, but I have had the great fortune to associate with Srila Prabhupada through his writings and recordings and I really feel that he is the spiritual master who has opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge.Without Srila Prabhupada, I would not have known anything about Krsna. But still I hesitate --- is it proper for me to say that Srila Prabhupada is my guru? Although I am trying to followhis instructions, I am still unable to perfectly keep the 4 regulative principles and I am only chanting eight rounds a day (half of the minimum Srila Prabhupada set for his disciples). Yet I have the audacity to think of Srila Prabhupada as my guru (in the sense of siksha guru) because I can't help it. Most of my knowledge of Krsna Consciousness comes from him.Without him, my attempts to become Krsna Conscious would probably have begun. So is Srila Prabhupada my guru? Can I honestly say to someone I've met:"My guru, His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada..."? While it is true that I have taken almost all my infomation about Krsna from Srila Prabhupada, I am still unable to conform to the standards that Srila Prabhupada has set for his disciples. I humbly submit this transcendental dilemma before the assembled devotees.

Dear Debbie: I hope you are well. The Srimad Bhagavatam, which is an ancient scripture in the Vedic canon, defines the supreme occupation for which all humanity as that by which we can attain to devotional service for God and it specifies that this devotionals ervice has to be unmotivated and uninterrupted for the self to be completely satisfied.(Srimad Bhagavatam)1.2.6) So whatever spiritual process we follow, as long as it will help us to advance towards unmotivated and uninterrupted love for God is a potent process and whateevr which does not is simply a waste of time. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura (1838-1914) a great spiritual master in the Gaudiya Vaishnava line of His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada defines eternal religion as love for the Lord and further five characteristics of false religions --- impersonalism, pantheism, skepticism, atheism and materialism. These five characteristics are intrinsically contrary to love and as such will constitute features of false religion. I'm not saying you should accept this analysis wholesale, but I think we have to maintain a balanced approach to viewing religions. On one extreme is the simplistic view that all religions are the same and leads to the same goal, which is quite absurd when taken to its logical conclusion. The person praying to a tree spirit for some material benediction has a very different motive from the sadhu chanting on his beads in a temple. So how can their goal be the same? The other extreme is the fanatical belief that:"My religion alone is true and all others are false." Ultimately, if God is spiritual, then He should be above all material, man-made designations like "Buddhist", "Christian", "Hindu", "Muslim", etc. and those who are His servants will similarly rise above these designations.Love of God --- this should be the universal platform for all religions, at least the theistic systems.

Dear Bhakta Joy: Physical illness can be very demoralizing for our spiritual life. There was one time I was so sick that I vomitted in the toilet and convulsed in pain. It was only later that I realized that in my most intense pain, my mind focused only on my physical agony and I totally forgot about Krsna. Still,the name of Krsna is our friend and as long as we keep opening ourself to His mercy, He will draw us back in His merciful presence. In The Way of A Pilgrim, a classic of Orthodox Spirituality by an unknown Russian pilgrim of the mid-19th century who wandered through Russia and Serbia preaching the glories of chanting the holy name of Jesus through the Prayer of Jesus ("Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me")wrote: "And that is how I go about now, and ceaselessly repeat the Prayer of Jesus, which is more precious and sweet to me than anything in the world. At times I do as much as forty-three or four miles a day, and do not feel that I am walking at all. I am aware only of the fact that I am saying my prayer. When the bitter cold pierces me, I begin to say my Prayer more earnestly and I quickly get warm all over. When hunger begins to overcome me, I call more often on the name of Jesus, and I forget my wish for food. When I fall ill and get rheumatism in my back and legs, I fix my thoughts on the Prayer and donot notice the pain. If anyone harms me I have only to think, "How sweet is the Prayer of Jesus!" and the injury and the anger alike pass away and I forget it all. I have become a sort of half-conscious person. I have no cares and no interests. The fussy business of the world I would not give a glance to. The one thing I wish for is to be alone, and all by myself to pray, to pray without ceasing; and doing this, I am filled with joy. God knows what is happening to me!" (The Way of A Pilgrim, Chapter 1) A Vaishnava can apply the above passage simply by substituting "Jesus" with "Krsna". The name is the same. If we simply let the name accompany us, all our problems will be solve. The name is our dear friend! I'll pray for you,Bhakta Joy Prabhu. Hare Krsna!

Dear Debbie: I'm glad you have found the description of the Hare Krsna mantra to be useful. But you really shouldn't thank me. You should thank His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (1896-1977), the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. It was Srila Prabhupada who provided the description and it was he who ventured to your country all alone at the age of 70 to execute his Guru's order to preach Krsna Consciousness in the Western world.On the way to America, Srila Prabhupada suffered two heart attacks and upon landing on American soil, he wandered from one accomodation to another for one purpose only --- to deliver the chanting of the holy names of God to America and the rest of the world. Although Srila Prabhupada has passed from our mundane vision, his mission is still very much alive and today, the Hare Krsna mantra is being chanted all over this planet, thanks to an elderly Vaishnava gentleman who sailed across an ocean to preach.Thank you, Srila Prabhupada. I wish you all the best in your spiritual journey, Debbie.I think the very fact that you are searching for God is already very pleasing to Him who is patiently waiting for us to return back home, back to Godhead.

Dear Debbie: I hope the follwing explanation by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (1896-1977), the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness will be of interest for you: "This transcendental vibration of chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is the sublime method of reviving our Krsna consciousness. As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial our consciousness is now polluted by the material atmosphere. In this polluted concept of life, we are trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in her complexities. This illusion is called maya --- our hard struggle for existence for winning over the stringent laws of material nature. This illusory struggle against material nature can at once be stopped by the revival of our Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. It is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived, and therefore the process of chanting Hare Krsna is recommended by authorities for this age. By practical experience, also, we can perceive that by chanting this maha-mantra, or "the great chanting for deliverance," one can at once feel transcendental ecstasy from the spiritual stratum. When one is actually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind, and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane. This chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is directly enacted from the spiritual platform,surpassing all lower stages of consciousness, namely sensual, mental and intellectual. There is no need to understand the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation, nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this maha-mantra. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration without any previous qualification and dance in ecstasy. We have seen it practically --- even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it. The chanting should be heard, however, from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that the immediate effect can be achieved. As far as possible, chanting from the lips of nondevotees should be avoided. Milk touched by the lips of a serpent has poisonous effects. The word Hara is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord. Both Krsna and Rama are forms of directly addressing the Lord, and they mean the highest pleasure."Hara" is the supreme pleasure potency of the Lord. This potency addressed as Hare, helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord. The material energy, known as maya is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord. The living entities are described as an energy that is superior to matter. When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the marginal potency is in contact with the supreme spiritual potency, Hara, it be- comes the happy normal condition of the living entity. The three words --- namely Hare Krsna and Rama --- are the transcendental seeds of the maha-mantra and the chanting is the spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy, Hara, for giving protection to the conditioned souls. The chanting is exactly like genuine crying by the child for his mother. Mother Hara helps in achieving the grace of the supreme father Hari, or Krsna, and the Lord reveals Himself to such sincere devotees. Therefore no other means of spiritual realization is as effective in this age as chanting the maha-mantra:Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

If a great soul like Haridas Thakura chanted with beads, who am I, a total neophyte, to throw my beads away?

Dear Punkech: I think, if Krsna is satisfied, Siva is satisfied.IMHO, a Vaisnava can worship Lord Siva, but in his relation with Krsna as the greatest Vaisnava.

Dear Punkech: I hope you are well.The following are some excerpts from Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is regarding Lord Siva. --------------------------- The Srimad-Bhagavatam affirms: naitat samacarej jatu manasapi hy anisvarah vinasyaty acaran maudhyad yatha 'rudro 'bdhi-jam visam isvaranam vacah satyam tathaivacaritam kvacit tesam yat sva-vaco-yuktam buddhimams tat samacaret "One should simply follow the instructions of the Lord and His empowered servants. Their instructions are all good for us, and any intelligent person will perform them as instructed. However, one should guard against trying to imitate their actions. One should not try to drink the ocean of poison in imitation of Lord Siva." (Bhag. 10.33.30) We should always consider the position of the isvaras, or those who can actually control the movements of the sun and moon, as superior. Without such power, one cannot imitate the isvaras, who are superpowerful. Lord Siva drank poison to the extent of swallowing an ocean, but if any common man tries to drink even a fragment of such poison, he will be killed. There are many pseudo-devotees of Lord Siva who want to indulge in smoking ganja (marijuana) and similar intoxicating drugs, forgetting that by so imitating the acts of Lord Siva they are calling death very near.(From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 3.24) Krsna is different even from the great demigods like Brahma and Siva. And because He is the creator of Brahma, Siva and all the other demigods, He is the Supreme Person of all planets.(From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.3) All Vedic literature agrees that Krsna is the source of Brahma, Siva and all other demigods. In the Atharva Veda it is said, "yo brahmanam vidadhati: purvam yo vai vedams ca gapayati sma krsnah.It was Krsna who in the beginning instructed Brahma in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past." Then again it is said, "atha puruso ha vai narayano 'kamayata prajah srjeya ity upakramya.Then the Supreme Personality Narayana desired to create living entities." Again it is said: narayanad brahma jayate, narayanad prajapatih prajayate, narayanad indro jayate, narayanad astau vasavo jayante, narayanad ekadasa rudra jayante, narayanad dvadasadityah. "From Narayana, Brahma is born, and from Narayana, the patriarchs are also born. From Narayana, Indra is born, from Narayana the eight Vasus are born, from Narayana the eleven Rudras are born, from Narayana the twelve Adityas are born." It is said in the same Vedas, brahmanyo devaki-putrah: "The son of Devaki, Krsna, is the Supreme Personality." Then it is said: eko vai narayana asin na brahma na isano napo nagni samau neme dyav-aprthivi na naksatrani na suryah sa ekaki na ramate tasya dhyanantah sthasya yatra chandogaih kriyamanastakadi-samjnaka stuti-stomah stomam ucyate. "In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Narayana. There was no Brahma, no Siva, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun. There was only Krsna, who creates all and enjoys all" In the many Puranas it is said that Lord Siva was born from the highest, the Supreme Lord Krsna, and the Vedas say that it is the Supreme Lord, the creator of Brahma and Siva, who is to be worshiped. In the Moksa-dharma Krsna also says, prajapatim ca rudram capy aham eva srjami vai tau hi mam na vijanito mama maya-vimohitau. "The patriarchs, Siva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy." In the Varaha Purana it is also said, narayanah paro devas tasmaj jatas caturmukhah tasmad rudro 'bhavad devah sa ca sarva-jnatam gatah. "Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahma was born, from whom Siva was born." (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.8) There are eleven Rudras, of whom Sankara, Lord Siva, is predominant. He is the incarnation of the Supreme Lord in charge of the modes of ignorance in the universe. (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.23) Among created manifestations, the total material elements are first created by Maha-Visnu and are annihilated by Lord Siva. (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.32) Worship of demigods is discouraged herein because even the greatest demigods like Brahma and Siva only represent part of the opulence of the Supreme Lord. He is the origin of everyone born, and no one is greater than Him. He is samata, which means that no one is superior to Him and that no one is equal to Him. In the Visnu-mantra it is said that one who considers the Supreme Lord Krsna in the same category with demigods--be they even Brahma or Siva--becomes at once an atheist. (From Purport to Bhagavad-gita 10.42)

Thomas Merton (1915-1968) was a Catholic Trappist Monk who was born an English citizen and became a naturalized American in the 1950s. He was a prolific writer and widely revered for his spiritual realizations.Thomas Merton was involved in Interfaith dialogue with many Eastern spiritual leaders like the Dalai Lama and his comments on Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is is included in the "Critics Praise Bhagavad-gita As It Is section of the Gita The folowing is an excerpt from one of his writings, which I think is a very fascinating analysis of the difference between the sacred and the secular: The secular and sacred reflect two kinds of dependence. The secular world depends upon the things it needs to divert itself and escape from its own nothingness. It depends on the creation and multiplication of artificial needs, which it then pretends to "satisfy". Hence the secular world is a world that pretends to exalt man's liberty, but in which man is in fact enslaved by the things on which he depends. In such a society man himself is alienated and becomes a "thing" rather than a person, because he is subject to his ever-increasing needs, to his restlessness, his dissatisfaction, his anxiety and his fear, but above all to the guilt which reproaches him for infidelity to his own inner truth. To escape this guilt, he plunges further into falsity. In the sacred society, on the other hand, man admits no dependence on anything lower than himself, or even "outside" himself in a spatials ense. His only Master is God. Only when God is our Master can we be free, for God is within ourselves as well as above us. he rules us by liberating us and raising us to union with Himself from within. And in so doing He liberates us from our dependence on created things outside us. We use and dominate them, so that they exist for our sakes, and not we for theirs. There is no purely sacred society except in heaven. But the city of God in heaven is reflectd on earth in the society of those who are united not by "enlightened self-interest" but by sacrificial and Christian love, by mercy and compassion, by selfless and divine pity. They liberate themselves from slavery to "diversion" by renouncing their own pleasure and immediate satisfaction in order to help relieve the needs of others, and in order to help others in turn become free and to seek their own inner truth, and thus fulfil their destiny on earth. I have said that even the most sacred of earthly societies tends to have something of a secular character. This is inevitable as we soona s we have a visible society of men in the present fallen condition of human nature. The visible and symbolic expressions of the divine tend to become opaque, in their constant use by men, so that we stop at them and no longer go through them to God. hence Holy Communion, for instance, tends to become a routine and "secularized" activity when it is sought not so much as a mystical contact with the Incarnate Word of God and with all the members of His Mystical Body, but rather as a way of gaining social approval and allaying feelings of anxiety. In this manner even the most sacred realities can be debased and, without totally losing their sacred character, enter into the round of secular "diversion". The truly sacred attitude toward life is in no sense an escape from the sense of nothingness, realizing that the emrcy of God has transformed our nothingness into His temple and believeing that in our darkness His light has hidden itself. Hence the sacred attitude is one which does not recoil from our own inner emptiness, but rather penetrates into it with awe and reverence, and with the awareness of mystery. This is a most important discovery in the interior life. For the external self fears and recoils from what is beyond it, and above it. It dreads the seeming emptiness and darkness of the interior self. the whole tragedy of "diversion" is precisely that it is a flight from all that is real and immediate and genuine in ourselves. It is a flight from life and from experience --- an attempt to put a veil of objects between the mind and its experiecne of itself. It is therefore a matter of great courage and spiritual energy to turn away from diversion and prepare to meet, face to face, that immediate experience of life which is intolerable to the exterior man. This is only possible when, by a gift of God (St Thomas would say it was the Gift of Fear, or sacred awe) we are able to see our inner selves not as a vacuum but as an infinite depth, not as emptiness but s fulness. This change of perspective is impossible as long as we are afraid of our own nothingness, as long as we are afraid of fear, afraid of poverty, afraid of boredom --- as long as we run away from ourselves. What we need is the gift of God which makes us able to find in ourselves not just ourselves but Him: and then our nothingness becomes His all. This is not possible without the liberation effected by compunction and humility. It requires not talent, not mere insight, but sorrow, pouring itself out in love and trust. The sacred attitude is essentially contemplative, and the secular attitude is essentially active. That does not mean that there cannot be activity that is sacred (based on love). But even such activity is sacred only in so far as it tends to compulsion. The man whose view of life is purely secular, hates himself interiorly, while seeming to love himself. He hates himself in the sense that he cannot stand to be "with" or "by" himself. And because he hates himself, he also tends to hate God, because he cannot abide the inner loneliness which must be suffered and accepted, before God can be found. His rebellion against his own inner loneliness and poverty turns into pride. Pride is the fixation of the exterior self upon itself, and the rejection of all other elements in the self for which it is incapable of assuming responsibility. This includes the rejection of the inmost self, with its apparent emptiness, its indefiniteness, and its general character as that which is dark and unknown. Pride is then a false and evasive self-realization which is in actual act no realization at all, but only the fabrication of an illusory image. The effort which must then be put into the protection and substantiation of this illusion gives an appearance of strength. But in reality, this fixation upon what does not exist merely exhausts and ruins our being. There is a subtle but inescapable connection between the "sacred" attitude and the acceptance of one's imost self. The movement of recognition which accepts our own obscure and unknown self produces thes ensation of a "numinous" presence within us. This sacred awe is no mere magic illusion but the real expression of a release of spiritual energy, testifiying to our own interior reunion and reconciliation with that which is deepest in us, and through the inner self, with the transcendent and invisible power of God. This implies humility, or the fulla cceptance of all that we have tended to reject and ignore in ourselves. The inner self is "purified" by the acknowledgement of sin, not precisely because the inner seat is the seat of sin, but because both our sinfulness and our interiority tend to be rejected in one and the same movement by the exterior self, and relegated back to the same darkness, so that when the inner self is brought back to light, sin emerges and is liquidated by the assuming of responsibility and by sorrow. Thus the man with "sacred" view is one who does not need to hate himself, and is never afraid or ashamed to remain with his own loneliness, for in it he is at peace, and through it he can come to the presence of God. More still, he is able to go out from his own loneliness to find God in other men. That is to say, in his dealings with othershe has no need to identify them with their sins and condemn them for their actions: for he is able, in them also, to see below the surface and to guess at the presence of the inner and innocent self that is the image of God. Such a man is able to help other men to find God in themselves, educating them in confidence by the respect he is able to feel for them. Thus he is capable of allaying some of their fears and helping them to put up with themselves, until they become interiorly quiet and learn to see God in the depths of their poverty. ( The Inner Experience by Thomas Merton, III. Christian Contemplation, 3. Sacred and Secular)

The Cloud of Unknowing is a work by an anonymous English Christian mystic of the 14th century and the entire work can be found online at http://www.ccel.org/u/unknowing/cloud_c.htm The following is a chapter from The Cloud of Unknowing: HERE BEGINNETH THE FOUR AND TWENTIETH CHAPTER What charity is in itself, and how it is truly and perfectly contained in the work of this book AND as it is said of meekness, how that it is truly and perfectly comprehended in this little blind love pressed, when it is beating upon this dark cloud of unknowing, all other things put down and forgotten: so it is to be understood of all other virtues, and specially of charity. For charity is nought else to bemean to thine understanding, but love of God for Himself above all creatures, and of man for God even as thyself. And that in this work God is loved for Himself, and above all creatures, it seemeth right well. For as it is said before, that the substance of this work is nought else but a naked intent directed unto God for Himself. A naked intent I call it. For why, in this work a perfect Prentice asketh neither releasing of pain, nor increasing of meed, nor shortly to say, nought but Himself. Insomuch, that neither he recketh nor looketh after whether that he be in pain or in bliss, else that His will be fulfilled that he loveth. And thus it seemeth that in this work God is perfectly loved for Himself, and that above all creatures. For in this work, a perfect worker may not suffer the memory of the holiest creature that ever God made to commune with him. And that in this work the second and the lower branch of charity unto thine even-christian is verily and perfectly fulfilled, it seemeth by the proof. For why, in this work a perfect worker hath no special beholding unto any man by himself, whether that he be kin or stranger, friend or foe. For all men him thinks equally kin unto him, and no man stranger. All men him thinks be his friends, and none his foes. Insomuch, that him thinks all those that pain him and do him disease in this life, they be his full and his special friends: and him thinketh, that he is stirred to will them as much good, as he would to the homeliest friend that he hath.

Dear ethos: Point noted.I'll make the necessary edits.Thank you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Madhudvisa: (repeating question) St. Francis, the founder of this particular order which we have been invited to speak to, found God in the material world. And he used to address the aspects of the material world as "brother" and "sister.Brother tree,sister water," like that. What is your view upon this? Prabhupada: This is real God consciousness. This is real God consciousness, yes, not that "I am God conscious, and I kill the animals." That is not God conscious. To accept the trees, plants, lower animals, insignificant ants even, as brothers... Samah sarvesu bhutesu. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati samah sarvesu bhutesu Samah. Samah means equal to all living entities, to see the spirit soul, anyone... It doesn't matter whether he is man or cat or dog or tree or ant or insect or big man. They are all parts and parcel of God. They are simply dressed differently. One has got the dress of tree; one has got the dress of king; one has got the, insect. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Panditah sama-darsinah: "One who is pandita, learned, his vision is equal." So if St. Francis was thinking like that, that is highest standard of spiritual understanding. Similar expression is there in the Caitanya-caritamrta, that sthavara-jangama dekhe na dekhe tara murti. A spiritually advanced devotee of the Lord, he sees the trees or the animals or the stone or the anything he sees--he sees that it is the energy of God. Na dekhe tara murti. Just like your murti or my murti--murti means form--may be little different, but we are made of the same ingredients. If your body surgically operated, the same blood, stone, or bone, or flesh, everything is there the same because same ingredients. Similarly, our outward covering is covered by these material elements, but inside, within this, there is the spirit soul. Therefore one who is advanced, he does not see that "This is cat, this is dog, this is man, this is elephant, and this is brahmana, this is this..." No. He sees the soul, that "Here is the soul, part and parcel of God." That is his vision. Panditah sama-darsinah. So that is God realization. God is spirit, Supreme Spirit, and he is part and parcel, the living entities. That is real vision. Panditah. Panditah means learned. (Lecture at St. Pascal's Franciscan Seminary, Melbourne, June 28, 1974) The Little Flowers of St. Francis is an anonymously compiled collection of stories about St Francis and his companions written in Italian.The following are some excerps from the collection: And as he went on his way, with great fervour, St Francis lifted up his eyes, and saw on some trees by the wayside a great multitude of birds; and being much surprised, he said to his companions, "Wait for me here by the way, whilst I go and preach to my little sisters the birds"; and entering into the field, he began to preach to the birds which were on the ground, and suddenly all those also on the trees came round him, and all listened while St Francis preached to them, and did not fly away until he had given them his blessing. And Brother Masseo related afterwards to Brother James of Massa how St Francis went among them and even touched them with his garments, and how none of them moved. Now the substance of the sermon was this: "My little sisters the birds, ye owe much to God, your Creator, and ye ought to sing his praise at all times and in all places, because he has given you liberty to fly about into all places; and though ye neither spin nor sew, he has given you a twofold and a threefold clothing for yourselves and for your offspring. Two of all your species he sent into the Ark with Noe that you might not be lost to the world; besides which, he feeds you, though ye neither sow nor reap. He has given you fountains and rivers to quench your thirst, mountains and valleys in which to take refuge, and trees in which to build your nests; so that your Creator loves you much, having thus favored you with such bounties. Beware, my little sisters, of the sin of ingratitude, and study always to give praise to God." As he said these words, all the birds began to open their beaks, to stretch their necks, to spread their wings, and reverently to bow their heads to the ground, endeavouring by their motions and by their songs to manifest their joy to St Francis. And the saint rejoiced with them. He wondered to see such a multitude of birds, and was charmed with their beautiful variety, with their attention and familiarity, for all which he devoutly gave thanks to the Creator. Having finished his sermon, St Francis made the sign of the cross, and gave them leave to fly away. Then all those birds rose up into the air, singing most sweetly; and, following the sign of the cross, which St Francis had made, they divided themselves into four companies. One company flew towards the east, another towards the west, one towards the south, and one towards the north; each company as it went singing most wonderfully; signifying thereby, that as St Francis, the bearer of the Cross of Christ, had preached to them and made upon them the sign of the cross, after which they had divided among themselves the four parts of the world, so the preaching of the Cross of Christ, renewed by St Francis, would be carried by him and by his brethren over all the world, and that the humble friars, like little birds, should possess nothing in this world, but should cast all the care of their lives on the providence of God.... At the time when St Francis was living in the city of Gubbio, a large wolf appeared in the neighbourhood, so terrible and so fierce, that he not only devoured other animals, but made a prey of men also; and since he often approached the town, all the people were in great alarm, and used to go about armed, as if going to battle. Notwithstanding these precautions, if any of the inhabitants ever met him alone, he was sure to be devoured, as all defence was useless: and, through fear of the wolf, they dared not go beyond the city walls. St Francis, feeling great compassion for the people of Gubbio, resolved to go and meet the wolf, though all advised him not to do so. Making the sign of the holy cross, and putting all his confidence in God, he went forth from the city, taking his brethren with him; but these fearing to go any farther, St Francis bent his steps alone towards the spot where the wolf was known to be, while many people followed at a distance, and witnessed the miracle. The wolf, seeing all this multitude, ran towards St Francis with his jaws wide open. As he approached, the saint, making the sign of the cross, cried out: "Come hither, brother wolf; I command thee, in the name of Christ, neither to harm me nor anybody else." Marvellous to tell, no sooner had St Francis made the sign of the cross, than the terrible wolf, closing his jaws, stopped running, and coming up to St Francis, lay down at his feet as meekly as a lamb. And the saint thus addressed him: "Brother wolf, thou hast done much evil in this land, destroying and killing the creatures of God without his permission; yea, not animals only hast thou destroyed, but thou hast even dared to devour men, made after the image of God; for which thing thou art worthy of being hanged like a robber and a murderer. All men cry out against thee, the dogs pursue thee, and all the inhabitants of this city are thy enemies; but I will make peace between them and thee, O brother wolf, if so be thou no more offend them, and they shall forgive thee all thy past offences, and neither men nor dogs shall pursue thee any more." Having listened to these words, the wolf bowed his head, and, by the movements of his body, his tail, and his eyes, made signs that he agreed to what St Francis said. On this St Francis added: "As thou art willing to make this peace, I promise thee that thou shalt be fed every day by the inhabitants of this land so long as thou shalt live among them; thou shalt no longer suffer hunger, as it is hunger which has made thee do so much evil; but if I obtain all this for thee, thou must promise, on thy side, never again to attack any animal or any human being: cost thou make this promise?" Then the wolf, bowing his head, made a sign that he consented. Said St Francis again: "Brother wolf, wilt thou pledge thy faith that I may trust to this thy promise?" and putting out his hand he received the pledge of the wolf; for the latter lifted up his right paw and placed it familiarly in the hand of St Francis, giving him thereby the only pledge which was in his power. Then said St Francis, addressing him again: "Brother wolf, I command thee, in the name of Christ, to follow me immediately, without hesitation or doubting, that we may go together to ratify this peace which we have concluded in the name of God"; and the wolf, obeying him, walked by his side as meekly as a lamb, to the great astonishment of all the people. Now, the news of this most wonderful miracle spreading quickly through the town, all the inhabitants, both men and women, small and great, young and old, flocked to the market-place to see St Francis and the wolf. All the people being assembled, the saint got up to preach, saying, amongst other things, how for our sins God permits such calamities, and how much greater and more dangerous are the flames of hell, which last for ever, than the rage of a wolf, which can kill the body only; and how much we ought to dread the jaws of hell, if the jaws of so small an animal as a wolf can make a whole city tremble through fear. The sermon being ended, St Francis added these words: "Listen, my brethren: the wolf who is here before you has promised and pledged his faith that he consents to make peace with you all, and no more to offend you in aught, and you must promise to give him each day his necessary food; to which, if you consent, I promise in his name that he will most faithfully observe the compact." Then all the people promised with one voice to feed the wolf to the end of his days; and St Francis, addressing the latter, said again: "And thou, brother wolf, dost thou promise to keep the compact, and never again to offend either man or beast, or any other creature?" And the wolf knelt down, bowing his head, and, by the motions of his tail and of his ears, endeavoured to show that he was willing, as far as was in his power, to hold to the compact. Then St Francis continued: "Brother wolf, as thou gavest me a pledge of this thy promise when we were outside the town, so now I will that thou renew it in the sight of all this people, and assure me that I have done well to promise in thy name"; and the wolf lifting up his paw placed it in the hand of St Francis. Now this event caused great joy in all the people, and a great devotion towards St Francis, both because of the novelty of the miracle, and because of the peace which had been concluded with the wolf; and they lifted up their voices to heaven, praising and blessing God, who had sent them St Francis, through whose merits they had been delivered from such a savage beast. The wolf lived two years at Gubbio; he went familiarly from door to door without harming anyone, and all the people received him courteously, feeding him with great pleasure, and no dog barked at him as he went about. At last, after two years, he died of old age, and the people of Gubbio mourned his loss greatly; for when they saw him going about so gently amongst them all, he reminded them of the virtue and sanctity of St Francis. from A Treasury of Catholic Reading, ed. John Chapin (Farrar, Straus & Cudahy, 1957)

Practice of the Presence of God is a 17th century spiritual classic by Brother Lawerence(1611?-1691) who was a lay brother of the Discalced Carmelites of Paris.He had been a soldier,a footman and a hermit before the Carmelites had accepted him. I have posted the following quotes before on a much earlier thread in this Forum.This is a repeat telecast of the nectar. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif "To be with God is not necessary to be always in church.We may make a chapel of our heart whereto we may escape from time to time to talk with him quietly,humbly,lovingly." (FOURTH LETTER To a Woman in the World) "I look upon myself as a leper,full of corruptions,the most wretched of men who has done all sorts of wickedness against his king.Seized by remorse, I confess all my evil deeds to Him,I implore His pardon,I cast myself into his hands that He may do what He wills with me.But this king is full of loving kindness and mercy.Instead of punishing him,He caresses me lovingly,He makes me eat at His table,He serves me with His own hands,He gives me the key to His treasury,He treats me as a favoured child.He talks with me,and His delight is to be with me in a thousand ways;I am forgiven and my iniquities are taken away without talking about them.The more I pray to be acceptable to His heart,the more weak and despicable I seem to myself,and the more I am beloved of God.It is thus that I look upon myself from time to time in His holy presence." (FIFTH LETTER To a Religious) "I only know that God protects me and that I am so tranquil that I fear nothing.What is there to fear when I am with Him?I cling to Him as much as I am able.May He be blessed by all." (SIXTH LETTER To a Nun) A little lifting-up of the heart is enough;a short rememberance of God,an interior act of worship,made in haste and sword in hand,are prayers which,short as they may be,are nevertheless most pleasing to God;and far from lessening a soldier's courage in moments of danger,they increase it." (SEVENTH LETTER To a Woman in the World) "I advise you to avoid much talking in prayer;long speeches often induce distractions.Hold yourself in prayer before God like a dumb or paralysed beggar at a rich man's gate;rivet your attention on keeping your mind in the presence of the Lord.If it wanders away from Him,don't get upset;to worry about it serves rather to distraction than recollection:let the will bring back the mind quietly.If you perservere in this way,God will have pity on you." (EIGHT LETTER To a Nun) "One way of becoming recollected easily at the time of prayer,and of remaining so,is to keep the mind under control at all times---that is,keep it strictly in the presence of God.Being accustomed to think of Him more often,it will then be more easy to remain undisturbed in prayer,or at any rate to recover from distractions." (EIGHT LETTER To a Nun) 'We cannot avoid the perils and snares of which life is full without the actual and unceasing help of God;we must then pray for it unremittingly.How can we pray to Him unless we are with Him? How can we be with Him unless we are always thinking of Him?And how can we think of Him often unless we make a holy habit of so doing?You will tell me that I keep on saying the same thing.It is turue.I do not know any better or easier way;and as I follow no other myself I recommend it to everybody.We must know before we can love;and to know God we must often think of Him.And when we love Him,we shall think about Him all the more,"for where thy treasure is,there is thy heart also."Just consider it carefully.'(NINTH LETTER To the Same) "Do remember what I have advised you:that is,to think often of God,by day,by night,whatever you are doing,in your duties,even in your amusements.He is always near you and with you;do not neglect Him.You would think it rude to leave a friend,who came to visit you,alone;why then leave God alone? Do not then forget Him,think about Him often --- to do so is the proper business of a Christian:if we do not know our calling we must learn from it.I will help you with my prayers."(TENTH LETTER To a Woman in the World) I wish you could realize that God is often nearer to us in time of ill-health and weakness than when we are well.Seek no other physician but Him,for to my mind He wishes to heal us Himself;put your whole trust in Him.Whatever remedies you make use of they will only succeed so far as He allows;when pain comes from God,He only can cure it,and He often sends disorders of the body to cure those of the soul.Comfort yourself with the all-powerful Physician of both bodies and souls." (ELEVENTH LETTER To a Nun) "Sometimes I looked upon myself as a poor criminal before his judge;at other times I looked on Him in my heart as My Father and My God,worshipping Him as often as I was able,and recollecting myself whenever my mind was distracted from His holy presence.I found no little difficulty in this exercise,but I perservered in spite of my failures,not worrying or blaming myself when my distractions were involuntary.I did this not only at my set times of prayer,but at all times driving from my mind everything that could displace the thought of God,every hour,every minute,even at my busiest moments." (TWELFTH LETTER To a Nun)

Dear ethos: I will start a thread entitled "Writings of the Christian Mystics" to post some excerpts of their writings to share with yourself and anyone else who might be interested.I believe we have a lot to learn from them.

Dear ethos: Hare Krsna!I hope you are well.You wrote: Eastern religions have knowledge and philosophy and science and arts and every aspect of life permeated with religious doctrine. Western theology begins and ends with "I believe." I respectfully disagree. To say that Western theology begins and ends with "I believe."' is a sweeping statement.What about the Christian mystics like Thomas A Kempis, Brother Lawrence,the anonymous writer of The Cloud of Unknowing,Meister Eckhart,Thomas Merton etc? I have read the writings of some of these mystics and there are some very sublime realizations (unlike the dogma churned out by some Christian Fundamentalists) to be found in them.These mystics were writing from their own experience of the Divine and not thereotical knowledge.They should not be sweepingly dismissed.

The above post was by me.Forgot to log in.