Sonic Yogi

I wonder if he will also explain his criminal fundraising schemes from the late 1970-s.

Srila Prabhupada made Gurukripa the GBC of Vrindavan even though Tamal and some others were complaining about his money making scams overseas.

Srila Prabhupada knew Gurukripa was using some very risky fundraising practices but never removed him as GBC of Vrindavan which was part of his last will and testament which could have easily have been changed before his passing.

Gurukripa raised a good portion of the money for Mayapura and Vrindavan temples.

I don't think we should make a big deal out of it.

Nothing Gurukripa did is still an issue with ISKCON as are the many schemes and scams still being perpetrated by the GBC.

ISKCON is back in Japan.

http://iskconjapan.com/

Think of all the sukriti the Japanese people got from having their money go towards building Mayapur and Vrindavan.

Gurukripa tricked Japan into some very great sukriti and Japan owes Gurukripa for all that mercy they got.

You are missing the point of the Acarya's function and reason for being here.

Do you think anyone is going to respect your views if you come in the forum talking down to other members like that?

You are talking down to Kulapavana as if he is a blithering idiot.

Is that the best way to really demonstrate how humble and spiritually advanced you are?

Your ego seems to be as big as the great outdoors.

How do you expect anyone to respect your views when you come off so arrogant and full of yourself?

Gurukrpa: What Really Happened in 1977-78 BY: BY BHAKTA DASA

Feb 04, INDIA (SUN) — Another point of view from Gurukrpa Prabhu.

Dear Prabhus: Gurukrpa is here with me and on his behalf I am writing here.

Question: What happened the final months of Srila Prabhupada's appearance in connection with the process of initiating new devotees?

Gurukrpa: Nothing happened. In the beginning Srila Prabhupada did the diksa, the yajna and the name giving. As the numbers increased, he authorized GBC, and senior sannyasis to pick names and chant on the beads, etc. In 1977 during the months of May, June, July 1977 I was in Vrindaban with Srila Prabhupada, giving him his massage in his bed between 1 AM and mangala aratik. During the day, many letters would arrive. Satsvarupa Swami was the secretary and we decided that only letters that would give joy to Srila Prabhupada would be read. Like numbers of books sold, etc. A maximum of five letters daily were read to Srila Prabhupada.

After some weeks like this, there were stacks and stacks of letters, all relating to initiation. Hundreds of people were panicking that Srila Prabhupada would leave the planet before they were given initiation. At this time, this situation was brought before Srila Prabhupada in his room by Satsvarupa, Tamal, myself, and maybe some others.

Up until this time it was a very simple matter that we were doing the initiations, but we first had to ask permission. Srila Prabhupada NEVER refused any recommendation from his senior men. And personally, I would sometimes argue with some GBC that they were giving it too easily.

At this meeting, Srila Prabhupada basically said, "From here on, if you feel they are ready, then you may give the initiation on my behalf." I understood this for what it was, simply extending the authority a little further than it had been. Tamal Krsna Swami, began to say, "But who will do it?. Which devotees will do this?" Srila Prabhupada said, "The nearest one will do it. Whoever is closest." Tamal said, "Can Bhavananda do? Can Jayapataka do?" Thus these eleven names came out.

Question: Why were you not on the list of eleven?

Gurukrpa: Because it did not matter. Srila Prabhupada said whoever was closest. I was already doing and Srila Prabhupada never told me or anyone else not on the list to stop. For myself, it was not very relevant because I was working in Japan and did not have any new devotees to initiate.

Tamal Krsna Swami made these list of names himself and Srila Prabhupada signed the letter. But they were only priests to act on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. Tamal asked about Bhavananda who was not a TP or a GBC at that time. And everyone knew well of his homosexual tendencies. But, Tamal pushed his name, because he was already planning how to take over when Srila Prabhupada was gone.

Question: How did Tamal Krsna Swami become so influential at this time?

Gurukrpa: Tamal's original service was as GBC in India. He left that service without permission and arrived in America. Within one year the Temple Presidents made a huge complaint to Srila Prabhupada that he was disrupting the temples by taking important men. I was in the room when Srila Prabhupada told Tamal to go to China. Hari Sauri's memory of this incident is not accurate. Either way, that is another story.

Tamal went to New York to prepare to go to China. And in May 1976, he showed up in a suit in Honolulu, a broken man. He could not get a visa to China, he had no service to do in India, and he could not go back to America, so he was quite depressed. Approximately a day or two later, Srila Prabhupada called for Tamal and me at about 12:30 AM. He said, "My feet are swelling, my teeth are getting loose, I am passing urine too frequently. These are the first signs that death is coming." Then he sent us back to bed. The next day TKG volunteered to be Srila Prabhupada's secretary, as the service was vacant at that time. From this position he could control and manipulate the environment around Srila Prabhupada. I can write many more stories that will shock people about TKG's ambitious nature and his desire to take Srila Prabhupada's seat.

After Srila Prabhupada left, in November 1977, I stayed in Vrindaban till Gaura Purnima 1978, and there was no discussion of guru during these three or four months, because Srila Prabhupada's last instruction, or as the Ritviks call it, "The final order", was that "Now we have build a framework. There is no need to try and expand more. If we can just maintain our men and increase the chanting and hearing that is sufficient. We should sit down now and chant and hear."

There was NO TALK about initiations that I heard either in Vrindaban or in Mumbai during these months. If Srila Prabhupada has appointed these eleven as spiritual masters, why did they not start initiating at once? Because they all knew very well they were never appointed! We knew the philosophy, what is tattva darshi and what is Saksad Hari... but behind closed doors there was a plot simmering. In the GBC meeting of 1978 the initiation issue was brought up and it appeared they had already concluded that they were going to go ahead and say that they were appointed. I asked Harikesh sitting next to me, 'how are you going to let people call you a paramahansa? You are not a realized soul, you are a piece of shit. He turned to me with a smrik on his face, and said "What are you going to do about it?" That is basically what happened, none of us could do anything after that.

In 1978, Janmastami, TKG came to Vrindavan to give Sannyasa diksa to Bhagavan. I was the GBC at the time in Vrindavan. TKG called from Delhi and demanded flower garlands and a large reception greeting at the temple with vyasasanas for them to sit on. I told them this is Prabhupada's temple and everybody can sit on the floor. When they came I gave them no such reception, and the next morning in Bhagavatwam, Bhagavan brought his politics into the class. I went and told him, if you ever do this again, bringing politics into Bhagavatwam class, you will never speak again in any temple I manage. That day, Bhavananda, TKG, and Bhagavan asked me to meet them in the guest house for a meeting. When I came, they said, why are you making waves? Just stop making trouble about this appointment of gurus and we'll make you the 12th guru at the next Mayapur meeting. I told them, Prabhupada did not make anyone guru's, you have to be a realized soul. They said there was some talk about you in Japan doing some things, therefore Prabhupada did not name you. I told them you are now believing your own lies. They were silent. Bhavananda tried to speak. I told him to shut his mouth because he was a homosex and he had never done service and had been living off the money I collected and sent to Mayapur for construction.

Question: So how did everyone become gurus, if Prabhupada did not make them gurus?

Gurukrpa: Had Srila Prabhupada seen one of us as being capable, he would have named that person or persons, but he did not mention that anyone was fit. His Divine Grace B.V. Puri Maharaja, who Srila Prabhupada said "is the only godbrother who is not envious of me", ask Srila Prabhupada, "Please stay another 8 or 10 years with these boys." Srila Prabhupada's answer was, "They are all hard headed, I have done all that I can do."

Prabhupada said, "I can stay 100 years" many times, but he left after 81 plus a few months.

In the GBC meeting of 1978, they shouted me down and they had already decided the fix was in. This was how the future of ISKCON was going to go.

Question: Is the GBC absolute since they are named as the ultimate managing authority?

Gurukrpa: Prabhupada said the GBC would be the ultimate managing authority. But that does not mean they are perfect, and they have perfect vision. The process of the GBC meetings during the years, we would have the meeting and report the day's minutes of the meeting nightly to Prabhupada. Usually it would take 5 days. Prabhupada said, if you people were competent, you people would be done in 30 minutes. In 1977, Prabhupada told us, just have your meetings and after 5 days give me all your resolutions. After 5 days of meetings, the GBC filed in his room, sat down and read the resolutions; and one after another. Srila Prabhupada said, 'No I do not want that, no that is not what I wanted'. He vetoed almost all the resolutions. So to say the GBC is the ultimate authority is correct, but that does mean that it is absolute. As you can see by how many gurus have fallen down, and how many GBC's have had difficulties.

Guru means one who has no other interest but to realize the absolute truth, Krishna. The guru must have first realized the Name is non-different than Krishna. When I first joined the movement, we spent 9 to 10 hours a day chanting in the street. These present GBC's do not spend that in a year. Hari nama eva kevalam, in this age only the Holy Name, only the Holy Name. Your bureaucracy and your management is not the process. The elitism being shown by the GBCs putting themselves up on a platform, above all their godbrothers is absolute arrogance and the greatest sin of pride, the opposite of the humble blade of grass. Krishna is the one giving all directions for those who can hear Him.

Must of us are now hitting 60 or more. We've made successful businesses, won some, lost some, raised our families, and personally I have gone to 25 straight Kartiks in Vrindavan. We have been excluded from Srila Prabhupada's movement, it started in the GBC meeting of 1978. Still today, the people who have appointed themselves for life have had very little result. Rabindra Svarupa, the GBC of Hawaii, has come once in 6 years, and he will not give up the position. Kavicandra in Japan has done nothing there in 25 years. Even one of these GBC gurus does not wear neck beads, tilak, sikah, or have any faith in the Name is still a member in good standing. In the west, most of the temples have more deities than devotees. Most of the devotees are being paid, pujaris being paid, cooks being paid Temple Presidents are being paid, and they have to bring Indian devotees just to keep the bare minimum going.

I have witnessed over all these years how the elitist mentality of the GBC's and guru's have excluded all their godbrothers. They have put themselves on a high pedestal. They have no taste for staying in the holy dhama's of Mayapur and Vrindavna, and they run back to their comfort zones soon as they finish the meetings.

In 1977, during the rainy season, all the GBC's showed up in Vrindavan.. Srila Prabhupada said, we should go in a room and make out his will for him, i.e., who would manage what properties and so forth... Kirtanananda and everyone was there, and they were going on saying someone will do this, and someone will do that... I noticed how they totally left me out. So I just went to the Yamuna and took my bath and came back to find them still dividing everything up. When they were finished, it was brought into Srila Prabhupada room and read to him as he laid on his bed. After they finished reading the will, the first question Srila Prabhupada asked was, 'Where is Guru-krpa's name'? I had already opened a dozen temples and collected the most money in ISKCON history, up to that point, and they totally left me out. But Srila Prabhupada noticed it right away. So now, although I am the first executor in his will, and he told me to develop Hawaii and other places, (you made read the will), they also have totally neglected that order. Giriraj even came and asked me if I would resign from the will. I told him, 'How can I give up the order of the guru'? It is not as easy for me as you people.

There is no new blood in this organization, things have become stagnated and dry, not dynamic and the offense of neglecting all their godbrothers by excluding them from their spiritual birthright, they will have to answer to Srila Prabhupada for this aparadha.

Question: What is your idea of how the guru-disciple relationship should now be handled in ISKCON?

Gurukrpa: Love cannot be institutionalized. I fell in love with Srila Prabhupada the second I saw him. That is why I could surrender to the depth that I did, to get the insurmountable service I did at that time. Once in Mayapur, Kirtanananda came to me and said "Why are you giving all that money to Prabhupada. You should give it to me, in America we are protected. The communist one day will come and take these buildings away... Prabhupada is making a big mistake." I was shocked by what I just heard. At that time, Kirtanananda was considered by Satsvarupa to be the greatest of the great, and the most divine of the divine. My answer was, I do not care what he does with the money. He can flush it down the toilet, for all I care, I just love to give it to him.

It's a matter of the heart. According to one's state of the heart, if one has many material desires, he may say he loves Bhagavan Sai Baba, the Pope, Charles Manson. It's according to one's sukriti. Krishna is sitting in one's heart, He knows exactly what our intentions are. Before anyone has a right to ask a question, you must first enter the class. The price is surrender. Those who have not fully surrendered cannot understand those who have surrendered. Those who have surrendered can understand about everyone.

Srila Prabhupada initiated thousands, he told me once in his room in Vrindavan, he said "My guru ordered me to go to the west, and I did that. My main service was to translate these books and I did that. I have a personal desire to build these temples in India. That is my personal program. But they (his disciples) will not give me money and my head is getting hot. I have to translate these books, write many letters, and I am thinking how to raise the money to build these temples because my disciples have their own programs and will not give me money." So, seeing Srila Prabhupada like this, I told him that from today forth, you just translate the books peacefully, and I will take the headache and go and get the money. When I walked out of the room, I could not believe what I just said. So to think all the GBC are 100% surrendered souls, and the gurus are 100% surrendered souls with no self-interest, and their only interest is to serve Srila Prabhupada mission, they did not even care during his time (Srila Prabhupada's time). Srila Prabhupada said he would be happy, if he could get one moon. To get one disciple who would be perfect, out of many thousands. How rare is a personality of Srila Prabhupada's character.

The GBC's duty is to see that Srila Prabhupada's standard is being maintained. That standard is based on chanting and hearing, also becoming a lover of Krishna. If Srila Prabhupada said I bless you, I give you a benediction, it will manifest. He has the right, the adhikari to do that. If someone else says I am your guru, I am giving you diksa, can he give you Krishna? Can he give you the Holy Name? Can he take you to Vaikuntha? Have you been there, has the guru been there? Srila Prabhupada told me in the car in New Zealand, he turned to me in the car and said, while you were building Krishna Balarama temple in Vrindavan, Krishna was building you a house in Goloka. I have seen it, it is very nice. That is why you can only surrender to the depths, to one who is from that place, and who can you give you that place, who wants that place, otherwise it is just a big show. Whistles and bells with no substance.

My view of seeing this organization, it is cronyism. Most of the leaders, their hearts are still, steel framed, they are self-interested. They are not self-less. They have stopped somewhere on this road back to Godhead; they are satisfied with their easy lifestyle, food, respect, honor, traveling all at the expense of the community and the younger devotees who go on the street. It's a long way from chant, dance and be happy.

Question: Then how did it come about that immediately after Srila Prabhupada was not present physically, these eleven became worshipable as paramahamsas of the highest order?

Gurukrpa: Because it is the cheaters and the cheated. People are basically sudras who want a master tell them what to do. They do not have sufficient intelligence, or spiritual knowledge, therefore they accepted; and the more realized devotees left, after trying to correct things. They were told to leave because they were disturbing the faith of the new disciples.

Because they could not take it anymore anymore they left. Now it has become like the Pol Pot regime, "accept our way, or die." Devotees never die, KRSNA is always in their hearts. They are the losers for losing the association of their brothers and sisters. The senior men can do something, otherwise the new men cannot do without the association of the older devotees.

Most of the older devotees now also do not have the missionary spirit. Srila Prabhupada said, as a group we can't be broken, but alone we are all easily broken.

The leaders have never cared for the godbrothers/sisters. They are happy when they see their brother get victimized by Maya, and never come to try and rescue them. Do you think Srila Prabhupada is happy to see the present leader's disciples at his temples and not his own disciples???? They talk of love of God, but they do not care one bit for their own family members, unless the family agrees to accept everything they say. They have no peers around them that may object to anything.

I AM A VERY FALLEN SOUL. I AM NOT BASICALLY A FAULT FINDER, WHICH IS WHY I DID NOT SPEAK UP FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS. SO MANY PEOPLE ASK ME TO WRITE A BOOK, BUT I HAVE NOT. I HAVE LIVED VERY NICELY BY SRILA PRABHUPADA'S GRACE. I WILL BE VERY HAPPY TO SEE THE GBC ACTUALLY BECOME REAL GBC AND GENUINE LOVING COMPASSIONATE VAISNAVAS.

 

In this purport Srila Prabhupada gives a figure of the size of the universe that is much larger than the 4 billion square miles mentioned in the 5th canto.

In the 5th canto it says the universe is 2 billion square miles x 2 or 4 billion square miles, but in this purport he says the universe is 2 billion TIMES 2 billion square miles which is a number bigger than I can calculate. It also describes the Moon that is further from Earth than the Sun as a moon that is in the topmost strata of the universe which therefore cannot be the moon of the Earth.

My guess is that this figure of the size of the universe as 2 billion X 2 billion is more likely the correct figure than the 2 billion X 2 figure we hear of.

SB 2.5. 40-41:

Modern enterprisers (the astronauts who travel in space) may take information from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that in space there are fourteen divisions of planetary systems. The situation is calculated from the earthly planetary system, which is called Bhūrloka. Above Bhūrloka is Bhuvarloka, and the topmost planetary system is called Satyaloka. These are the upper seven lokas, or planetary systems. And similarly, there are seven lower planetary systems, known as Atala, Vitala, Sutala, Talātala, Mahātala, Rasātala and Pātāla lokas. All these planetary systems are scattered over the complete universe, which occupies an area of two billion times two billion square miles. The modern astronauts can travel only a few thousand miles away from the earth, and therefore their attempt to travel in the sky is something like child's play on the shore of an expansive ocean. The moon is situated in the third status of the upper planetary system, and in the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we shall be able to know the distant situation of the various planets scattered over the vast material sky.

Humans share 90% of the same genes with Rats who are evolving 4 times faster than humans.

Maybe the scientists can figure out a way to make humans more like Rats so that human evolution can be hurried along?

Have any of you ever LIVED under martial law? I have for almost a yr, if it happens here it will not be a joke.

 

I remember a passage in the SB or no maybe a purport I think, that Prabhupada says the ksatriyas and brahmanas will hide from the government in caves to escape the turmoil caused by them in this age.

 

RCB

Well, I have lived under military law where I was told where I lived and what work I did.

Martial law is child's play compared to military law.

I actually had that impression when I first met Srila Prabhupada, when he came to Honolulu in August of 1970. I had absolutely no doubt that the rest of my life belonged to him from the moment our eyes met. But I had an uneasy feeling about those traveling with him: Kirtanananda, Madhudvisa, Devananda, Karttikeya (all sannyasis), and Tamal. I had a bad feeling that they had some desire to somehow manipulate, control Srila Prabhupada.

Yeah, it's is a damn shame that intelligent men like yourself could not have been running ISKCON instead of the scum that floated to the surface.

Why did Prabhupada allow these bums to plunder ISKCON?

I have a theory that Srila Prabhupada actually wanted ISKCON to fragment upon his departure and so he allowed these ambitious fools to get control.

I have no doubt Srila Prabhupada wanted to break-up ISKCON upon his demise.

His having Narayana Maharaja perform his funeral guaranteed that.

The one in the picture!

the ONE in the picture is surrounded by scoundrels?

That can't be good.

Yeah, I've gotten a whiff of that New World Odor. It's nasty.

Didn't your Guru support the idea of a one world government?

Hey, if the Masons (New World Order) can take over the world then I am

100% behind it.

Or, should the cult monsters in ISKCON control the world?

I am thinking about converting to become a Mason.

They are a lot more broad-minded than Hare Krishna cult fanatics.

Yeah sure, whatever. The only person you are fooling is yourself. If I didn't care, I wouldn't say anything. Good luck with the Babaji in his Bhajan Kutir routine. When the New World Odor locks High Springs down it might not seem like such a great idea. I just hope your heart doesn't have to dry up to ash before you get together with old friends for Kirtana and Prasadam once in a while in order to make some real spiritual advancement.

 

Good luck. Hare Krsna

Just be careful "prabhu".

If you fall off your high horse you are liable to break your neck.

I have a really cool 22 year old son and a very cool and nice 15 year old daughter to keep me company.

My oldest daughter lives with her boyfriend.

I am as content as a bug in a rug.

I have been a loner all my life.

I am not going to change just because you think I need some male bonding.

You really come off like a hot head with an agenda.

You need to chill out and feel the love bro......

Yesterday, in what was post #57 (before it was deleted), in the Top Heavy thread where Theist was getting alot of attention and feedback into his dilemna, Sonic wrote...

 

"I'm jealous.

How long do I have to be here before I can start a topic about myself and make everyone feel sorry for poor lil' ol' me?

 

I can talk about my double hernia, my degenerative disks in my neck, my poverty, my lack of education and job skills and how I raised three kids by myself for the last 13 years.

 

Now suddenly that changes to.

 

"KB is certainly not feeling any empty feelings.

He is quite the contented fellow and enjoying his simple life with this kids."

 

Isn't that something?

KB has a double hernia, degenerative disks in his neck, lives in poverty, raised three kids by himself for 13 years and doesn't let it get to him and is still happier than you.

You are obviously a very miserable and lonely person.

Your writings on this forum are testament to that.

I don't keep friends.

I have been a loner about all my life.

I don't need a night out with the guys.

If I need a night out it is with the girls.

But, I have had my play and had my day and now at age 55 I am ready to settle down and make some spiritual advancement.

I don't wear my heart on my sleeve.

I keep my beliefs to myself.

I don't "preach".

I have no urge to preach what I believe to other people.

There are plenty of Hare Krishna fanatics like you around to cram their beliefs down the throat of others.

He has become more than his spiritual master "so once again...mouse!".

 

Happy not to read his purports.

I don't think he is any mouse.

He is a great Vaishnava.

I don't agree with him on some things, but I still consider him as way superior a person than i.

Bottom line for me is I just don't really give a hoot anymore what these ISKCON gurus do, or what the GBC does. I have written off the whole lot and threw in the towel on trying fight back.

Who cares?

It's about money, don't you understand?

If Hridayananda Maharaja caters to the gays then that will pay off for him because actually gay people are usually quite educated and successful professional people who will donate to their guru Hridayananda Maharaja and support his typical jet-set lifestyle like all the rest of the ISKCON gurus.

Why beat on a horse once the horse is dead?

It just doesn't make any sense.

Let the children play.

 

"Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated May 13rd, 1975 and have noted the contents. I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil."(END)

 

RCB

Well, I agree that anyone having homosex or any kind of illicit sex cannot really make any spiritual advancement.

But, can they learn things about spiritual knowledge and and chant Hare Krishna to maybe get them to the point to where they can someday make spiritual advancement.

If they are just shunned and driven away, then what chance is there that they can someday get beyond their sinful desires and attain to the mode of goodness?

If devotees aren't merciful to sinful people then how will they ever become pure?

Try personal contact with devotees of at least a similar nature. You stay in your cabin to much and have a 'fever' get out once in a while, mix it up in person!

 

I'm you huckleberry, come on down!

 

Caturbahu d

CB, just don't confuse this person with KB you old friend from Badger because they are not the same person.

KB has been working six days a week for the last year and he doesn't really spend that much time in his cabin.

KB is certainly not feeling any empty feelings.

He is quite the contented fellow and enjoying his simple life with this kids.

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.20.23

 

devo 'devāñ jaghanataḥ

 

sṛjati smātilolupān

 

ta enaḿ lolupatayā

 

maithunāyābhipedire

 

SYNONYMS

 

devaḥ — Lord Brahmā; adevān — demons; jaghanataḥ — from his buttocks; sṛjati sma — gave birth; ati-lolupān — excessively fond of sex; te — they; enam — Lord Brahmā; lolupatayā — with lust; maithunāya — for copulation; abhipedire — approached.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Lord Brahmā then gave birth to the demons from his buttocks, and they were very fond of sex. Because they were too lustful, they approached him for copulation.

 

PURPORT

 

Sex life is the background of material existence. Here also it is repeated that demons are very fond of sex life. The more one is free from the desires for sex, the more he is promoted to the level of the demigods; the more one is inclined to enjoy sex, the more he is degraded to the level of demoniac life.

These were the original homosexual in the universe and they were created out of Lord Brahma's ass and then they came at Lord Brahma wanted homosex with him.

So, homos are part of the universal play.

They were created out of the body of Lord Brahma.

Straight people can't fathom that homos can also be interested in spiritual life despite their nasty sexual orientation.

But in the END........ is not illicit sex of any time no better than the other?

I prefer women.

But, hey, if some guy prefers to have sex with other men then that does not make my illicit sex with women any less sinful.

Which is the lesser of the two evils?

Is one really lesser than the other?

save the Whales, save the trees

save the land and seas

save the kids and save the dogs

save the cats and hogs

save the cans and save the glass

save the teachers class

but don't foget when you save them whole

you must first of all save your soul

(by me)

I don't think it is that simple Suchandra. I think homosexual were like women in their last lives and they died thinking about the man they loved and so they took birth as a man. They prefer to be women, but they died thinking about their male lover and so became a very confused living entity.

The mind of the woman carried over into the next life with the body of a man.

There are some homos that are just nasty sickos, but many gays are just very confused people stuck in a body they really don't want.

I don't think we should be so hard on gay people.

There are deep psychological undercurrents in the minds of gays that straight people who are comfortable in their skin just can't relate to.

Gays should be encouraged to cultivate Krsna consciousness.

Everybody, no matter what kind of crazy situation they find themselves in should be encouraged to cultivate Krsna consciousness.

I personally don't find anything wrong with what Hridayananda Maharaja is doing with gay people.

We all have more important things to do than bashing gay people.

Well at least you are not talking to yourself and answering with another id. Just kidding.

 

 

I thought this thread would degrade once it took a certain direction but it has turned out to be a pretty good discussion worth being a fly on the wall and listening to.

Begger is not me.

I am not him.

But, we do know each other from many moons ago.

I would even venture to say we are friends, though we do tease each other on this forum.

And humor aside, this is actually an honest statement!

Humor aside...... the Holy Name has finally proved to me to be the ONLY pleasure in this miserable world.

I can't explain it, but in the last few months the Holy Name has given me a new lease on life.

It's almost like a drug.......addictive, feels real good and makes you want more, more......more.

It's a wonderful thing.

I can't explain it, but chanting Hare Krishna is so much pleasure and sweetness that I don't have to run on faith alone anymore.

I feel the juice and the pleasure.

Why me?

I am just a fallen soul.

It's hard to imagine that everyone doesn't experience the bliss and the sweetness of the Holy Name.

You can even taste it on your tongue.

It is nothing short of incredible.

Chant Hare Krishna.

And humor aside, this is actually an honest statement!

Judging by the depth of your writings and realizations, there is definitely something happening.

Maybe you aren't fallen enough?

Remember.......Patita Pavana....... Gaurahari?

When you finally hit bottom, there is no where to go but up.

Just ask me...... I 'll tell ya'....

Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructed His disciples to write books on the science of Krsna, a task which His followers have continued to carry out down to the present day. The elaborations and expositions on the philosophy taught by Lord Caitanya are, in fact, the most voluminous, exacting, and consistent, due to the system of disciplic succession. Although Lord Caitanya was widely renowned as a scholar in His youth, He left only eight verses, called Siksastaka. These eight verses clearly reveal His mission and precepts. These supremely valuable prayers are translated herein.

<center>1</center> cetah-of the heart; darpana-the mirror; mârjanam-cleansing; bhava-of material existence; mahâ-dâva-agni-the blazing forest fire; nirvâpanam-extinguishing; s'reyah-of good fortune; kairava-the white lotus; candrikâ-the moonshine; vitaranam-spreading; vidyâ-of all education; vadhû-wife; jîvanam-the life; ânanda-of bliss; ambudhi-the ocean; vardhanam-increasing; prati-padam-at every step; pûrna-amrita-of the full nectar; asvâdanam-giving a taste; sarva-for everyone; âtma-snapanam-bathing of the self; param-transcendental; vijayate-let there be victory; s'rî-krishna-sankîrtanam-for the congregational chanting of the holy name of Krishna.

Glory to the sri-krsna-sankirtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sankirtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious.

<center>2</center> nâmnâm-of the holy names of the Lord; akâri-manifested; bahudhâ-various kinds; nija-sarva-s'aktih-all kinds of personal potencies; tatra-in that; arpitâ-bestowed; niyamitah-restricted; smarane-in remembering; na-not; kâlah-consideration of time; etâdris'î-so much; tava-Your; kripâ-mercy; bhagavan-O Lord; mama-My; api-although; durdaivam-misfortune; îdris'am-such; iha-in this (the holy name); ajani-was born; na-not; anurâgah-attachment.

O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names, like Krsna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them.

<center>3</center> trinât api-than downtrodden grass; sunîcena-being lower; taroh-than a tree; iva-like; sahishnunâ-with tolerance; amâninâ-without being puffed up by false pride; mânadena-giving respect to all; kîrtanîyah-to be chanted; sadâ-always; harih-the holy name of the Lord.

One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.(Caitanya-caritâmrita, Antya-lîlâ 20.21)

<center>4</center> na-not; dhanam-riches; na-not; janam-followers; na-not; sundarîm-a very beautiful woman; kavitâm-fruitive activities described in flowery language; vâ-or; jagat-îs'a-O Lord of the universe; kâmaye-I desire; mama-My; janmani-in birth; janmani-after birth; îs'vare-unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead; bhavatât-let there be; bhaktih-devotional service; ahaitukî-with no motives; tvayi-unto You.

O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service, birth after birth.

<center>5</center> ayi-O my Lord; nanda-tanuja-the son of Nanda Mahârâja, Krijna; kinkaram-the servant; patitam-fallen; mâm-me; vijame-horrible; bhava-ambudhau-in the ocean of nescience; kripayâ-by causeless mercy; tava-Your; pâda-pankaja-lotus feet; sthita-situated at; dhûlî-sadris'am-like a particle of dust; vicintaya-kindly consider.

O son of Maharaja Nanda (Krsna], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.

<center>6</center> nayanam-the eyes; galat-as'ru-dhârayâ-by streams of tears running down; vadanam-mouth; gadgada-faltering; ruddhayâ-choked up; girâ-with words; pulakaih-with standing up of the hairs due to transcendental happiness; nicitam-covered; vapuh-the body; kadâ-when; tava-Your; nâma-grahane-in chanting the name; bhavijyati-will be.

O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?

<center>7</center> yugâyitam-appearing like a great millennium; nimejena-by a moment; cakjujâ-from the eyes; prâvrijâyitam-tears falling like torrents of rain; s'ûnyâyitam-appearing void; jagat-the world; sarvam-all; govinda-from Lord Govinda, Krijna; virahena me-by my separation.

O Govinda! Feeling Your separations I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence.

<center>8</center> âs'lishya-embracing with great pleasure; vâ-or; pâda-ratâm-who have fallen at the lotus feet; pinashtu-let Him trample; mâm-me; adars'anât-by not being visible; marma-hatâm-brokenhearted; karotu-let Him make; vâ-or; yathâ-as (He likes); tathâ-so; va-or; vidadhâtu-let Him do; lampatah-a debauchee, who mixes with other women; mat-prâna-nâthah-the Lord of My life; tu-but; sah-He; eva-only; na aparah-not anyone else.

I know no one but Krsna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord, unconditionally.

 

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 3.27

 

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

 

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

 

ahańkāra-vimūḍhātmā

 

kartāham iti manyate

 

SYNONYMS

 

prakṛteḥ — of material nature; kriyamāṇāni — being done; guṇaiḥ — by the modes; karmāṇi — activities; sarvaśaḥ — all kinds of; ahańkāra-vimūḍha — bewildered by false ego; ātmā — the spirit soul; kartā — doer; aham — I; iti — thus; manyate — he thinks.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature.