Sonic Yogi

If you were curious as to what was going on (in the Krsna conscious movement) you are a kshatriya.

 

I don't remember who said it though.

These varna designations are not something intrinsic to the soul or mind.

You aren't kshatriya, vaishya or sudra if you aren't working within a varnashrama system

Like, if I say I am a doctor but I have no training and no work as a doctor then that is just an illusion.

One's guna and karma would get one a position as a ksatriya or vaishya etc. if in fact one lived in a varnashrama society of a Vedic king.

What it means is that we all have an acquired nature - a guna or combination of the three gunas.

A person in the mode of goodness is of the brahmincal nature, though if he doesn't have a position in a Vedic culture as a brahmana then how can we say he is a brahmana?

A ksatriya is predominantly in the mode of passion - raja guna.

The Vaishya is in the mixed mode of passion and ignorance.

The sudra is appointed his work as a sudra because he is predominantly in the mode of ignorance - tama guna.

However, in the western world things are very mixed-up.

A teacher might be in the mode of ignorance even though in the Vedic system a teacher would come from the brahminical class in the mode of goodness.

So, in the western world we cannot say that one's karma or work is correctly reflective of his guna.

The priests are supposed to be brahmans but we can see that in western world most priests are meat-eaters in the mode of ignorance.

So, without a proper Vedic king and a cabinet of brahmans, it is totally ridiculous to try and compare western people in divisions of labor and castes.

That is basically what the caste system has done.

It let's ignorant sudras pose as brahmans while some persons in the mode of goodness are labled as sudras.

As such the caste system of India has become just a bigoted, prejudiced system of false designations based upon some family traditions.

Illusions are real man.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mouUUWpEec0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">

NOD CH.2

Thus the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that there is no need of even designating oneself brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha or sannyāsī. Let everyone be engaged in whatever occupation he now has. Simply let him worship Lord Kṛṣṇa by the result of his activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will adjust the whole situation, and everyone will be happy and peaceful within this world. In the Nārada-pañcarātra the regulative principles of devotional service are described as follows: "Any activities sanctioned in the revealed scriptures and aiming at the satisfaction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are accepted by saintly teachers as the regulative principles of devotional service. If one regularly executes such service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master, then gradually he rises to the platform of serving in pure love of God."

The Vedic varnashrama system requires to be implemented by a class of brahmanas who guide the King in administrating the kingdom.

Without a King and a qualified cabinet of brahmanas to guide him there can be no varnashrama system.

ISKCON being a headless society managed by a GBC that is a mix of sannayasis and ghrastas cannot properly practice varnashram.

There is no military leader as King in ISKCON.

That is truly a shame.

 

If you had instead chosen to fight over instituting Blu-Ray, you would have gotten twice the resolution for only a marginal increase in price.

I hope you voted Democrat!!!

I too think that it is possible that all of the fallen so-called gurus are not devotees at all! But synister men sent to disrupt Srila Prabhupada's movement. Understand?

 

Hare Krsna

 

RCB

I remember when these men were sincere and trusted and loved by Srila Prabhupada.

I don't think they are trying to be evil.

If they were so evil and nasty I think Srila Prabhupada in all his wisdom would have seen through the facade.

They are just neophytes that pretended to be advanced devotees.

Obviously, the idea of an "advanced devotee" was a very naive and simplistic notion in ISKCON back in them days.

No, I am the demon false devotee.

I have plenty of proof of that.

They are all more sincere than me.

At least that is the way a humble person is supposed to think.

I am not humble, but I can't even fool myself about being some authentic Vaishnava.

I am not even close.

After initiating at least 55 sannyasis and seeing most of them fall down, Prabhupada decided that there will be no more sannyasis in Iskcon..

I don't buy that.

That would be Srila Prabhupada admitting that he made a lot of big mistakes.

I don't think Srila Prabhupada made a lot of big mistakes.

When he gave sannyasa to Adi-keshava das he supposedly told him that at some time in the future he might not want to be a sannyasa but for the time being as the TP in New York it gave him the authority he needed to be a strong leader there.

Prabhupada knew that some of them would not make it when he gave them sannyasa.

this claim that Srila Prabhupada mandated no more sannyasis in ISKCON is not supported by any sort of official proclamation from Srila Prabhupada.

If we buy your conclusions then we have to think of Srila Prabhupada as a man with bad judgement who made many mistakes.

That is certainly no way to think of Srila Prabhupada.

The only thing that needs to be changed in ISKCON is the policy of rejecting the official proclamations that Srila Prabhupada signed.

Sonic Yogi,

 

I understand the point that you are making. Obviously you find Indian traditions to be appalling and unacceptable. You would hardly be the first.

 

Raghu if you are so concerned about contributing to the betterment of mankind then instead of fault-finding the Hare Krishna people maybe you should become a caste brahmin activist and work to improve and reform the caste brahmin culture of India?

Caste brahmins in India have been degraded to a very low level.

Maybe you should work on helping caste brahmins become actual brahmins instead of trying to discredit and demean western devotees who have adopted the worship of Lord Krishna?

Get your own caste brahmin house in order before you go slinging mud at the Hare Krishna sect.

When you and all your caste brahmins have actually become more than sudras wearing a thread that they got without qualification, then you can worry about cleaning house of all the Hare Krishna dirt in the world.

Until then, you are really just a fraud.

If you were a brahmin studying the Vedas you certainly wouldn't be here in the forum 12 hours a day bashing the Hare Krishna people.

In fact, you are probably not even a Hindu or a caste brahmin but some irate Hare Krishna reject that just wants to taunt the Hare Krishna people by acting the role of some caste brahmin showing the flaws in the Gaudiya parampara.

Sonic Yogi,

I also have certain reservations about American culture. Would you like to hear them? Here they are:

• I object to unqualified individuals becoming gurus, then falling down and causing chaos for thousands of people who were innocent enough to follow them.
  
• I object to ignorant people using evasive and dishonest tactics to avoid confronting a corrupt philosophy that puts the unqualified gurus in the position to do harm in the first place.
  
• I object to hypocrites who claim to believe in a scripture, and then turn around and refuse to accept the point of view described in those same scriptures (i.e. bhagavad-gItA)
  
• I object to hypocrites who claim to follow a guru-parampara and then openly disagree with the gurus in that paramparA (like the way you all disagree with Baladeva)
  
• I object to hypocrites who feel that they have divine sanction to question everyone else's beliefs, but when their beliefs are questioned, they react with indignation.
  
• I object to hypocrites who claim to believe in practicing Vaishnava philosophy unchanged, and then when no one is looking, they introduce all sorts of changes (i.e. "Jesus is a pure devotee" and similar deviations)
  
• I object to the argumentative nature I see in iskcon wherein simple, reasonable, and pointed questions are met with hostility and scorn, but never answers to the questions
  
• I object to children being physically and sexually assaulted in so-called "gurukulas"
  
• I object to > 55% divorce rate in iskcon. Where is your so-called "Vedic culture?"
  
• I object to so-called "devotees" who cannot control their senses or even the urge to speak (or even type) nevertheless criticizing Vaishnavas for the sole reason that the latter believe in something that the former refuse to understand.

 

So?

Who cares what you think?

I certainly don't.

Write a letter to your congressman or something.

I am not the clerk of the whiners department.

Your opinion means nothing.

Does the barking of a dog stop the caravan from passing?

All us Hare Krishnas are riding our camels right on by you and your pack of barking dog caste brahmins.

It is a good little tune but I can understand your fears about becoming Beggars latest obsession. It wouldn't be pleasant to be on the recieving end of that mockery.

Well, I like Beggar a lot.

He is a really sweet soul.

We do have some acquaintance.

Maybe I mentioned "ritvik" somewhere and his BVDs got in a bunch.

I don't now.

I truly love the guy.

But, I guess I just worked too hard today to come home to mockery on the forum.

He was joking with me. All is good.

But, with what little energy I have left after a long day at work I wanted to relax with some forum chat and then my buddy Beggar mocks me.

I was just a little hurt and not really up to all the fun and games.

I don't have a lovely supportive wife like he does.

I have had to raise three kids by myself and I am not really all the fun and games that I sometimes appear to be on the forums.

love ya' Beggar....

You are one of my favorite peeps.....

Thank you for finally attempting to answer my very simple questions. I must say, getting answer from you is harder than pulling teeth.

Unlike your good self, I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth.

I work a full time job.

I still have a 15 year old daughter at home that I am raising alone as I have done for the last 13 years.

So, excuse me if I don't have 24 hours a day to hang out on the forum answering all your trite challenges here on the forum.

I have a few minutes a day to waste on this forum.

You should feel honored that I pay any attention to you.

I don't pay attention to many people.

I just don't have time.

Satsvarupa I can confidently say is not a vaishnava nor a brahmana.

 

Then you just exposed that you are neither a Vaishnava or a brahmana.

When you grow up to become an adult you might understand.

What shastric injunction allows a person to become a brahmana and a guru merely because they worship Vishnu?

That is not what I said Mr. Spaghetti sauce.

I said they worshiped the pure Vaishnava.

Worshiping the Vaishnava is much higher than worshiping Vishnu.

What????

You think you can worship Vishnu directly?

Vishnu doesn't accept your pathetic, filthy service.

Vishnu loves those who serve his pure devotees.

Those who try to worship him directly are just ignored by Vishnu.

 

 

 

 

 

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years

I'm just sittin here in the swamp

dealing with ordinary life and fears

 

I just worry about the next video and keeping away from them beers

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years...

I hope mocking me isn't going to become your latest obsession.

Surely you can come up with something more original than that?

 

 

 

 

 

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years

I'm just sittin here in the swamp

dealing with ordinary life and fears

 

I just worry about the next video and keeping away from them queers.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years...

That would all be good and well, but the problem is that ISKCON will be just a page in the bankruptcy records within the next 10 years.

I would be happy to call myself every bad name in the book just to preempt Sonic Yogi and his gang. All I really want are answers to these questions:

 

1) The disciples of Prabhupada who are currently gurus - are they all brahmins? Yes or no?

 

(NO, they are more than a brahmana)

 

2) The disciples of Prabhupada who were formerly gurus but then fell down - were they brahmins? Yes or No?

 

(No, they are devotees and more than a brahmana)

 

3) If the disciples of Prabhupada who fell down were not gurus, then why did Prabhupada initiate them as brahmins? Did he (a) do so knowing that they were not brahmins, or (b) do so because he did not know if they were brahmins or not?

 

(He did so knowing they were devotees of the Vaishnava and more than brahmanas)

 

4a) If the answer to question (3) is choice (a), then how do you rationalize giving initiations to a non-brahmin when you claim that one is only a brahmin based on conduct/qualification?

 

(Servants of the Pure Vaishnava are much more than a brahmana)

 

4b) If the answer to question (3) is choice (b), then when even Prabhupada (whom you no doubt consider the topmost guru) could mistakenly identify someone as a brahmin, then how are other gurus supposed to correctly identify brahmins prior to initiation?

 

(He followed shastric injunction and gave proper regard to the servants of the Vaishnava who are greater than brahmanas)

SY, can you please enter text through the keyboard and spare us the long stuff. I wonder if you ever read such lenghty articles before pasting them from websites.

Anyway I took the pain to read and did not find any answers to specific questions that Raghu asked. And you call him a sudra. It is clear that you think sudra is an insult. How can you insult this varna? The gaudiya acharyas will not be pleased by this bad behavior which is unfit to be a vaishnva.

Don't get your diapers all in a bunch.

You and raghu both seem to be very judgmental and totally overlooking all the service, devotion and love that persons like Kirtanananda Swami dedicated to Srila Prabhupada.

I came from the Prabhupada era.

I don't appreciate outsiders and newcomers coming in and passing judgment on disciples of Srila Prabhuapda that were very dear to him.

Godbrothers can can argue like brothers and I am cool with that.

I don't appreciate newbs and outsiders coming in and talking about some senior devotees that hit a few bumps in the road.

I am talking about foregiveness.

Anyone that can't forgive a devotee his shortcomings is no devotee of Gaura-Nitai.

KMA....

I think I can give you better answers than anyone here heh heh

 

 

You forgot to mention :

 

harer abhakto vipro'pi vijneyah svapacadhikah

hari bhakta svapako'pi vijneya brahmanadhikah

 

Any person who is not a devotee of Lord Sri Hari, even though he is a brahmana, he is lower than a dog-eater. Even if one is a dog-eater, if he is a devotee of Lord Sri Hari, he is understood as being better than a brahmana. (Padma Purana, Kriya Yogasara 16.3)

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 9.30

 

api cet su-durācāro

 

bhajate mām ananya-bhāk

 

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

 

samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

 

SYNONYMS

 

api — even; cet — if; su-durācāraḥ — one committing the most abominable actions; bhajate — is engaged in devotional service; mām — unto Me; ananya-bhāk — without deviation; sādhuḥ — a saint; eva — certainly; saḥ — he; mantavyaḥ — is to be considered; samyak — completely; vyavasitaḥ — situated in determination; hi — certainly; saḥ — he.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination.

 

PURPORT

 

The word su-durācāraḥ used in this verse is very significant, and we should understand it properly. When a living entity is conditioned, he has two kinds of activities: one is conditional, and the other is constitutional. As for protecting the body or abiding by the rules of society and state, certainly there are different activities, even for the devotees, in connection with the conditional life, and such activities are called conditional. Besides these, the living entity who is fully conscious of his spiritual nature and is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or the devotional service of the Lord, has activities which are called transcendental. Such activities are performed in his constitutional position, and they are technically called devotional service. Now, in the conditioned state, sometimes devotional service and the conditional service in relation to the body will parallel one another. But then again, sometimes these activities become opposed to one another. As far as possible, a devotee is very cautious so that he does not do anything that could disrupt his wholesome condition. He knows that perfection in his activities depends on his progressive realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sometimes, however, it may be seen that a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness commits some act which may be taken as most abominable socially or politically. But such a temporary falldown does not disqualify him. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that if a person falls down but is wholeheartedly engaged in the transcendental service of the Supreme Lord, the Lord, being situated within his heart, purifies him and excuses him from that abomination. The material contamination is so strong that even a yogī fully engaged in the service of the Lord sometimes becomes ensnared; but Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so strong that such an occasional falldown is at once rectified. Therefore the process of devotional service is always a success. No one should deride a devotee for some accidental falldown from the ideal path, for, as explained in the next verse, such occasional falldowns will be stopped in due course, as soon as a devotee is completely situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

 

Therefore a person who is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and is engaged with determination in the process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare should be considered to be in the transcendental position, even if by chance or accident he is found to have fallen. The words sādhur eva, "he is saintly," are very emphatic. They are a warning to the nondevotees that because of an accidental falldown a devotee should not be derided; he should still be considered saintly even if he has accidentally fallen down. And the word mantavyaḥ is still more emphatic. If one does not follow this rule, and derides a devotee for his accidental falldown, then one is disobeying the order of the Supreme Lord. The only qualification of a devotee is to be unflinchingly and exclusively engaged in devotional service.

 

In the Nṛsiḿha Purāṇa the following statement is given:

 

bhagavati ca harāv ananya-cetā

 

bhṛśa-malino 'pi virājate manuṣyaḥ

 

na hi śaśa-kaluṣa-cchabiḥ kadācit

 

timira-parābhavatām upaiti candraḥ

 

The meaning is that even if one fully engaged in the devotional service of the Lord is sometimes found engaged in abominable activities, these activities should be considered to be like the spots that resemble the mark of a rabbit on the moon. Such spots do not become an impediment to the diffusion of moonlight. Similarly, the accidental falldown of a devotee from the path of saintly character does not make him abominable.

 

On the other hand, one should not misunderstand that a devotee in transcendental devotional service can act in all kinds of abominable ways; this verse only refers to an accident due to the strong power of material connections. Devotional service is more or less a declaration of war against the illusory energy. As long as one is not strong enough to fight the illusory energy, there may be accidental falldowns. But when one is strong enough, he is no longer subjected to such falldowns, as previously explained. No one should take advantage of this verse and commit nonsense and think that he is still a devotee. If he does not improve in his character by devotional service, then it is to be understood that he is not a high devotee.

Forgiveness is a brahminical power that this "raghu" obviously does not possess being a non-brahmana.

He can't forgive and see the greatness of Krishna bhakti because he is a sudra.

The Krip says he doesn't think Prabhupada wanted any ritvik system to succeed him.

I am not so sure.

How many times did Prabhupada tell his senior men "don't change ANYTHING after I am gone"?

What part of "don't change anything" is up for change?

Obviously, stopping the ritvik system was a major change in ISKCON.

No devotee should have to suffer through a fallen guru.

That should never happen in the Gaudiya sampradaya.

To much is made of the formalities of intiation.

But, I ain't gonna start arguing ritvik with anyone.

I gave up on ISKCON.

I don't care if 10,000 ISKCON gurus fall down in the next 100 years.

What's the proof that Prabhupad was an empowered acharya? Since he deviated from tradition, you ought to assume that he too was a cheater.

If I would have said that I would have gotten banned from the forum.

There are many "traditions" in India that deserve to be rejected.

In India's long history many "traditions" have been created, but that doesn't make them right.

In my family we have a tradition of having Pizza on Friday night.

If my kids break this family tradition does that make them evil?

Many traditions in India falsely represent themselves as spiritual or Vedic when in fact they are many times just bigoted, racist, prejudiced practices of pseudo-religionists who make there living as professional Hindu priests.

Some of those traditions are no more spiritual than watching the Superbowl every year with the friends and family.

(which I don't do)

But, it is an American tradition.

I guess it is evil to reject the tradition.

In some aboriginal tribes it is tradition to take the old grandfather out and hunt him down in the forest, kill him and eat him.

Sometimes tradition is just a very stupid thing.

Unlike you, Kyros?

 

Which Veda have you studied or studying and which Shakha exactly?

 

Thanks,

Caste brahmanas don't study the Vedas.

They study the market for professional priests.

 

And you, Sonic Yogi, you can't even get passed the "contradictions" despite after 34 years of reading the books.

duh.

If I couldn't get past the contradictions then why do I still study the books?

Your logic is missing a critical component; signs of intelligence.

POINT 5) This verse (kiba vipra kiba nyasi...) is written in Bengali language. Sanskrit is the timeless, changeless, language of God. Nowhere in Sanskrit literatures is such a statement written pertaining to the initiating guru.

REFUTATION: We must emphatically state that indeed Bengali is the language of God! Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself spoke Bengali and Bengali is spoken in the eternal Navadwip. The Caitanya-caritamrta written by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvamipada, the incarnation of Sri Kasturi Manjari, the intimate associate of Sri Rupa Manjari and Srimati Radharani, was written in Bengali. Any literature written by such an exalted personality, in whatever language, should be considered on par with the Vedas. To denigrate such a transcendental literature merely because it was not written in Sanskrit certainly betrays a lack of faith in the previous acaryas and in Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Sanskrit is indeed an important language but it must be remembered that in the Goloka Vrndavana Krsna does not speak Sanskrit. Krsna speaks Vraja-bhasa.

The author of 'guru nirnaya dipika' is of the opinion that Srila Prabhupada's purport to this verse (kiba vipra kiba nyasi sudra kene naya) has been hijacked by his unscrupulous and ambitious disciples. However, what the author does not seem to understand is that Srila Prabhupada's purport, like most of his purports to his books, is simply a summary of his guru maharaja's purport to the same verse. Herein we are presenting both the purports of Srila Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura below in both Bengali and English to confirm that Srila Prabhupada's purport is in harmony to that of his guru-varga.

 

 

 

 

Varne brahmani huna va

ksatriya

-vasiya-

sudra

-huna, asrame sannyasi huna va brahmacari-vanaprastha-grhasthi huna, ye kona varne va ye kona asramei avasthita huna, krsna-tattva-vettai guru arthat vartma-pradasaka, diksa-guru u siksa-guru haite paren. Gurur yogyata kevalamatra krsna-tattva-jnatara upari nirbhara kare - varna va asramer upara nirbhara kare na. Sri Mahaprabhura ei adesa sastriya adesera viruddha nahe. Ei tatparyanusare Sri vVsvambhara Mahaprabhu Sri Isvara Puri-sannyasira nikata, Sri Nityananda Prabhu Madhavendra Puri Gosvami (matantare Srimad Laksmipati Tirtha) sannyasira nikata, Sri Advaita Acarya ei Sri Madhavendra Puri sannyasira nikati diksita hayachilen. Sri Rasikananda srotrabrahmane tarakulodbhuta Sri Syamanandera nikata, Sri Ganga-narayana Cakravarti u Sri Ramakrsna Bhatt

acarya

srotrabrahmanetara kulodbhava Srila Narottama Thakurera nikata, katoyara Sri Yadunandana Cakravarti Sri Dasa Gadadharera nikata pancaratrika diksaya hana. Dharma-vyadhadi anekarata siksa-guru haybara vyaghata chila na. Mahabharatera spasta adesasamuha evam Srimad Bhagavate saptam-skandha ekadasa adhyaya 32 sloke - "yasya yal laksanam proktath pumso varna bhiv yanjakam, yadan yatrapi dris yeta tattenaiva vinirdiset" Ei vakye vidhilikh prayoge vaisnava-visvasanugamane krsna-tattva-vettara vrtta-brahmanatai svabhavika, sutaram kalipracalita srotra-sambandha vyatita brahmanata yekhane haite pare na, tat-sthale krsna-tattva-vitta haile srotra-

sudra

u sastriya brahmanata labha kariya guru haite paren - ihai Sri Mahaprabhu suksmabhave bujhaiya dilen. Ye sakala krsna-tattva-vita vaidika vajasaneya sakhaurgata katyayana grha-sutrakta savitrya-samskara grhana karena na, tahara - ekayana-sakhi daiksya-brahmana matra. Kintu nirboddha lokera tahardig ke aneka samaya 'acyuta-brahman' baliya bujhite na pariya nirayagami haya; tajjanya Rasikananda Prabhura vamsa, Srikhander Sri Mukunda Daser vamsa, Navanihodera vamsa savitrya-brahmana-samskara evam srotra-vipra-sisya-sampradayera

acarya

-karya avahaman-kala caliya asiteche. Bhajanandi vaisnava-gana savitriya-samskara grhana karena nai boliya ye ekamatra vidhi haibe, ekrupa nahe. Vaisnava-gana laksana-dvara varna nirnaya kariya thaken, kintu nirboddha-gana adrsa laksana dvara varna karate asamarta baliya Sri Mahaprabhu spstabhavei sastra-tatparya bujhiya dilen. Hari-bhakti-vilase samgrhita siddhanta Sri Mahaprabhura nija adarsacara u upadesera sahita eka haile u nirboddhera vicare bhinna boliya pratita haya. Ei sankhyadhrta 'guru' sabdetita tahara vicare sravana-guru, va bhajana-siksa-gurui udista. Diksa va mantra-data guru udista hana nai; kena na tahara mate vamsa-paricaya arthat rakta va sukrai divya-jnana-datara adhikara nirnaya u paricaya pradana kare. Sutaram suddhatma-vrtti krsna-bhati tahara mate nirapeksa nahe; visesatah diksa-guru va mantra-datara sresthatva u mahatmya tahara murkhatanusare 'sravana- guru' athava 'bhajana-siksa-guru' apeksa adhikatara! E-sambandhe adhi, 9m p. 41 sankhyara anubhasya visesabhave alocya. Vastutah eirupa dharana tahadera aksajajnanajanita aparadhera phala-matra.

 

 

 

"Let him be a

brahmana

by caste, or let him be a

ksatriya

,

vaisya

or

sudra

; let him be a sannyasi according to his asrama or a brahmacari, vanaprastha or grhastha; let him be situated in any caste or stage of life - he who has understood the science of Krsna can become a guru, i.e. a vartmana-pradarsaka-guru, a siksa-guru or a diksa-guru. The qualification to be a guru rests only upon the knowledge of the science of Krsna - it does not rest upon caste or varna; this direction of Sriman Mahaprabhu is not opposed to the scriptural injunctions. By following the purport of this Sri Visvambhara Mahaprabhu was initiated by the sannyasi Sri Isvara Puri. Sri Nityananda Prabhu was initiated by the sannyasi Sri Madhavendra Puri Gosvami (by Srimad Laksmipati Tirtha according to another opinion) and Sri Advaita Acarya was initiated by the sannyasi Sri Madhavendra Puri. Sri Rasikananda took pancaratrika diksa from Sri Syamananda who appeared in a family who were not seminal

brahmanas

, Sri Ganganarayana Cakravarti and Sri Ramakrsna Bhatt

acarya

(both seminal

brahmanas

) were initiated by Sri Narottama Thakura who appeared in a family who were not seminal

brahmanas

, and Katwa's Sri Yadunandana Cakravarti was initiated by Sri Dasa Gadadhara. Even being a religious-minded hunter etc. was not even an obstacle for many personalities to become instructing gurus. This is considered to be the proper application of the Mahabharata's clear injunctions in pursuance of the Vaisnava faith and by the utterance in

Srimad Bhagavatam's

Seventh Canto, Eleventh Chapter, 32nd verse

 

 

 

 

yasya yal laksanam proktath pumso varna bhiv yanjakam

yadan yatrapi dris yeta tattenaiva vinirdiset

 

"The qualities that divide mankind into castes have been described, wherever those qualities are observed then the appropriate caste will be ascertained there accordingly. (Caste will not be ascertained by birth alone)."

 

 

 

 

One who is conversant with the science of Krsna naturally has the character of a

brahmana

. Therefore, wherever it is said that anything apart from 'seminal brahmanism' is lower (a concept which has only been introduced in the age of Kali) will not do, Mahaprabhu has carefully given us the understanding that even a 'seminal

sudra

' who knows the science of Krsna is able to become a guru because he has attained scriptural brahmanism. Those acquainted with the science of Krsna who do not accept the savitra-samskara (the ceremony of acceptance of the sacred thread), which is mentioned in the Katyayana Grhya-sutra within the Vedic Vajasaneya section, are actually all

brahmanas

initiated in the ekayana system. However, most of the time, some foolish people cannot understand that these Vaisnavas are infallible

brahmanas

(acyuta

brahmanas

) and thus such fools become condemned to hell. It is for this reason that the sacred thread ceremony and the function of acting as

acaryas

even for seminal

brahmana

sects has been going on since the very beginning in Rasikananda Prabhu's family, in Navani Hoda's family and in Mukunda Dasa's family of Khetari. It is not that because the bhajanandi vaisnavas have not accepted the savitra-samskara that this is the only system. Vaisnavas ascertain caste by characteristics. But, as foolish people are unable to ascertain caste in that manner, Sri Mahaprabhu has clearly given the understanding of the purport of the scriptures. Even though the compiled conclusions of the Hari Bhakti-vilasa are in conjunction with Mahaprabhu's exemplary behavior and instructions, some people, due to their foolish judgment, are under the belief that they differ. By their judgment the quoted word 'guru' only alludes to the sravana-guru or to the bhajana-guru and does not refer to the initiating or mantra-giving guru, since, in their opinion, the fitness to be the bestower of divine knowledge can only be ascertained and introduced by family reputation, that is, by blood or semen. Therefore, by their opinion, devotion to Krsna, the propensity of the pure soul, is not independent. Moreover, according to their foolishness, they believe that the diksa-guru is superior to the sravana-guru and the instructing guru on bhajana. Factually, the only result of this idea which is born from sensory knowledge is spiritual offence." (

Anubhasya

of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura)

 

 

Sri Hari-bhakti-vilase uccharane yogya-purusa thakete, hina0varna vyaktira nikata haite krsna-mantra loya ucita naya - erupa ye katha acche, taha lokapeksa-vaisnavapara; arthat samsare yahara pracalita-vidhimate kathanchita paramarthera uddesa karate iccha Karen, tahadera pakse. Parantu yahara vaidhi u raganuga-bhaktira tatparya janiya visuddha krsna-bhakti paite iccha Karen, tahadera sambandhe upayukta krsna-tattva-vetta ye kon varne va ye kon asramei pauya yauika na kena, tahakei 'guru' baliya varana karai vidhi. Sri Hari-bhakti-vilasa-dhrta Padma Purana vacana -

 

 

 

na

sudra

h bhagavad bhaktasthe'pi bhagavatottamah sarva varnesu te

sudra

ye na bhaktah janardane sat karma nipuno vipro mantra tantra visradah avaisnavo gurur na syad vaisnavah svapaco guruh

 

 

maha kulaprasuto'pi sarva yajnesu diksitah sahasra sakha dhyayi ca na guruh syada vaisnavah vipra

ksatriya

vaisya

s ca guravah

sudra

janmanam

sudras

ca guravas tesam trayanam bhagavat priyah"

 

 

 

"When it is mentioned in the

Hari Bhakti-vilasa

that if there is a fit person of a high caste present then it is improper to accept Krsna-mantra from a person of a lower caste, then this should be understood to be vaisnavism relative to society. In other words, it is for those who practice family life by the customary rules and who have somewhat of a desire for spirituality. But for those people who know the import of vaidhi and raganuga bhakti and who wish to get pure devotion for Krsna, the rule for them is that in whatever caste or stage of life the suitable knower of the truth of Krsna may be in, he should be respectfully accepted as guru. In the words of the

Padma Purana

quoted in the

Sri Hari Bhakti-vilasa:

 

 

 

na sudrah bhagavad bhaktasthe'pi bhagavatottamah

sarva varnesu te sudra ye na bhaktah janardane

sat karma nipuno vipro mantra tantra visradah

avaisnavo gurur na syad vaisnavah svapaco guruh

maha kulaprasuto'pi sarva yajnesu diksitah

sahasra sakha dhyayi ca na guruh syada vaisnavah

vipra ksatriya vaisyas ca guravah sudra janmanam

sudras ca guravas tesam trayanam bhagavat priyah

 

 

 

 

 

"Those who have taken recourse to the devotion of Krsna are never to be considered as

sudras

but they are to be glorified as bhagavatas. Amongst all castes, those people who are devoid of devotion to Lord Janardana are

sudras

. A

brahmana

who is expert in the six works and also in mantras and the tantra should not be selected as a guru if he is a non-vaisnava. If someone from a dog-eater family is a vaisnava he may be accepted as a guru. Even if one is born in the best of families, even if one is initiated in all the sacrifices and is learned in all the branches of the Vedas, if he is a non-vaisnava he is unable to become a guru. Generally,

brahmanas

,

ksatriyas

and

vaisyas

should be the gurus of

sudras

but even

sudras

can be the gurus of these three castes if they are dear to God." (

Amrta-pravaha Bhasya

of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

 

 

It is clear from the words of Srila Bhaktivinoda and Srila Sarasvati Thakura that any Vaisnava, irrespective of his birth and caste, is eligible to become guru if he has the necessary adhikara. The transcendental diksa-mantras are not the sole property of a particular class of men. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said that anyone who knows the science of Krsna is qualified to be guru. If one says that it is imperative that the guru must be born in a brahmana family, he has clearly not understood the science of Krsna consciousness and is therefore unqualified to initiate disciples.

 

 

CONCLUSION:

 

1) According to the sastras and the previous acaryas, anyone who is a qualified brahmana, by birth or by initiation, may take up the responsibility of acarya.

2) There are numerous examples in history of persons appearing in non-brahmana families and converting into brahmanas, including Srila Prabhupada and other members of our sampradaya. Such personalities are qualified to accept disciples.

3) According to the Anubhasya of Srila Sarasvati Thakura, any person, whatever his birth, can become a diksa-guru if he is conversant with the science of Krsna-consciouness. The word 'guru' does not necessarily mean that a non-brahmana can only function as a siksa-guru.

4) Those scriptural verses which indicate that one should take diksa only from a person born in a brahmana family should be understood to be promoting Vaisnavism relative to mundane society. Those who desire pure bhakti may accept diksa from any advanced Vaisnava no matter what his caste may be. This is the conclusion of Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda.

 

 

<hr align="center" size="1" width="200">

POINT 4) The translations and purports of my guru maharaja were dictated on a dictaphone, unless the tapes are produced, we must believe that the purports have been altered making it look as if anyone can become guru... English was his second language, and to understand his exact meaning one would have to refer back with him. The message given in these books is altered because of this lack of communication between the author and the editors.

REFUTATION: Here, the author of 'guru nirnaya dipika' makes a very unique assumption suggesting that from the very beginning of Iskcon there was a conspiracy by Srila Prabhupada's western disciples to change any reference to brahmana-gurus in his books in order that they could become spiritual masters themselves later. Even if, for arguments sake, we entertain such an absurd idea, there are recorded lectures, room conversations and morning walks with Srila Prabhupada wherein he makes exactly the same points on brahmanism that he does in his books. All of Srila Prabhupada's book dictations on cassette, his original letters and other resources are readily available at the BBT archives in North Carolina, U.S.A. for anyone to review, or will the author also claim that Prabhupada's recorded lectures and conversations have also been tampered with by ambitious disciples? Below are a few examples of lectures and letters of His Divine Grace speaking on the qualification to be a guru:

 

"If a man from the sva-pacah family, or the candala family, he becomes a Vaisnava, strictly according to the orders, then he can become guru, but not a brahmana if he's not a Vaisnava. This is the stricture. Even one is born in the family of a brahmana, and he's not only born, he's qualified, sat-karma-nipuno... Nipuno means qualified." (Bhagavad-gita lecture, London July 28th 1973)

"Generally, a qualified brahmana becomes guru. That is natural. A brahmana is the head of the society. So he is... And without becoming brahmana, nobody can become guru. That is also fact. Because brahmana means brahma janatiti brahmanah. One who knows Brahman, Brahman. So guru must be a brahmana, mean a qualified brahmana, not born-brahmana, so-called brahmana. Qualified brahmana." (Bhagavad-gita lecture, Ahmedabad Dec.7th 1970)

"Anyone who is qualified with Krsna consciousness, he can become guru. It doesn't matter where he is born, what is his family and identification. It doesn't matter. He must know the science. It is very practical. Just like when you go to consult an engineer or a medical man or some lawyer, you do not ask him whether he's a brahmana or a sudra. If he's qualified, if he can help you in the particular subject matter, you consult with him, you take his help. That is practical. So similarly, in the spiritual matter it doesn't matter what he is. If he knows Krsna, then he can become guru. It doesn't matter." (Srimad Bhagavatam lecture, Bombay Nov. 7th 1974)

"So one may be very illiterate, no education, or no scholarship, may not be born in brahmana family, or may not be a sannyasi. There are so many qualification. But one may not have all these qualifications. He may be rascal number one, but still, he can become spiritual master. How? Amara ajnaya. As Krsna says, as Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, if you follow, then you become spiritual master. One may be rascal number one from material estimation, but if he simply strictly follows whatever is said by Caitanya Mahaprabhu or His representative spiritual master, then he becomes a guru." (Vyasa-puja address, London, August 1973)

"So at the present moment, because these purificatory processes are not accepted, even in India... Accepted, they're unable. Everything has topsy-turvied. Therefore the sastra says that: "Accept everyone as sudra." Kalau sudrah sambhava. There is no more brahmana, ksatriya or vaisya. All sudras. We have to accept. Because no Vedic culture, no Garbhadhana samskara. They are born like cats and dogs. So where is this division? There cannot be.

Therefore, accept them as sudra. Varna-sankara is less than sudra. So at least, sudra they should be. So there is no Vaidic diksa. For sudra, there is no diksa, there is no initiation. Initiation is meant for the persons who are born in brahmana family, ksatriya family, or vaisya family. The sudra has no initiation. So in India there are professional gurus. They initiate sudras, but do not eat foodstuff touched by the disciple. So there are so many things, that if he's initiated, how he can remain sudra? But they keep him sudra; at the same time, they become guru. Sanatana Gosvami gives direction in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa that: tatha diksa-vidhanena dvijatvam jayate nrnam. If properly initiated, he becomes immediately brahmana. Dvijatvam. Dvija means second birth. Yatha kancanatam yati kamsyah rasa-vidhanatah. There is a chemical process that kamsya, bell metal, can be turned into gold by mixing with proportionately mercury. Now here is a hint of chemistry. If anyone can prepare gold... But it is very difficult to mix mercury. As soon as there is little heat, immediately the mercury's finished. So there is a process. Everything has process. Many yogis know how to make gold from copper. Actually, chemically, copper, tin and mercury, if you mix proportionately, it will be gold. So Sanatana Gosvami gives this example. As the copper and tin, these two metals, mixed with mercury, there can be production of gold, similarly, by proper initiation, by the proper spiritual master, one sudra, even though he's a sudra, less than sudra, varna-sankara, or candala, he can become dvija, brahmana. So our process is to make dvija. Pancaratrika vidhi. Pancaratrika vidhi. That is recommended."(Bhagavad-gita lecture, London, July 28th 1973)

"Sei guru. Who can become guru? Generally a brahmana, a sannyasi, that is, that is, they are forced. A brahmana is the guru of other varnas, and sannyasi is the guru for all varnasrama. This is... But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that is social system. If there is a brahmana, if there is a sannyasi, one should accept, give preference to him, to accept guru. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, "That is not the criterion. One must be well expert, experienced, well aware of the science of Krsna. He shall be guru."

( Srimad Bhagavatam lecture, Vrndavana, Oct.30th 1976)

"Regarding the validity of the brahminical status as we accept it, because in the present age there is no observance of the Garbhadhana ceremony, even a person born in brahmana family is not considered a brahmana, he is called dvija-bandhu or unqualified son of a brahmana. Under the circumstances, the conclusion is that the whole population is now sudra, as it is stated kalau sudra sambhava. So for sudras there is no initiation according to the Vedic system, but according to the pancaratrika system initiation is offered to a person who is inclined to take Krsna consciousness. During my guru maharaja's time, even a person was coming from a brahmana family, he was initiated according to the pancaratrika system taking him to be a sudra. So the birthright brahmanism is not applicable at the present moment. The sacred thread inaugurated by my guru maharaja according to pancaratrika system and Hari-bhakti-vilasa by Srila Sanatana Goswami must continue. It does not matter whether the priestly class accepts it or not. When my guru maharaja Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Prabhupada introduced this system, it was protested even by His inner circle of Godbrothers or friends. Of course He had actually no Godbrothers, but there were many disciples of Bhaktivinode Thakura who were considered as Godbrothers who protested against this action of my Guru Maharaja, but He didn't care for it." (Letter to Acyutananda, 14th Nov. 1970)We will now see what the author of 'guru nirnaya dipika' has to say about the following verse:

 

kiba vipra kiba nyasi sudra kene naya

yei krsna-tattva vetta sei guru haya

"Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi, or a sudra, one who knows the science of Krsna is to be accepted as guru." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 8.128)

 

 

POINT 3) Actually, our guru maharaja (A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada) appeared in the chain of the Brahma-kayastha family in the Dalabhya dynasty. I know this after learning of his father's last name and gotra. In Vedic civilization the Brahma-kayastha caste is equal to brahmana in every way.

REFUTATION: If we accept the words of Srila Prabhupada (the guru of the author of 'guru nirnaya dipika' ) then we can only conclude from the above statement that the author of 'guru nirnaya dipika' is a victim of misinformation, or that he has deliberately fabricated evidence in support of his own theory.

Srila Prabhupada has stated in various places that his family belonged to the suvarna-vanik community who were gold-merchants. Furthermore, his family gotra was Gautama and not Dalabhya and his father's surname was De, a prominent name amongst the mercantile class of Bengal.

"Our family

gotra,

or original genealogical line, is the

Gautama-gotra,

or line of disciples of Gautama Muni, and our surname is De. But due to their accepting the posts of zamindars in the Muslim government, they received the title Mullik." (

Caitanya-caritamrta

, purport to

Adi-lila

10.84)

 

"Calcutta was developed under British rule by the influential mercantile community, and especially by the suvarna-vanik community who came down from Saptagrama to establish their businesses and homes all over Calcutta. They were known as the Saptagrami mercantile community of Calcutta, and most of them belonged to the Mullik and Sil families. More than half of Calcutta belonged to this community, as did Srila Uddharana Thakura. Our paternal family also came from this district and belonged to the same community. The Mulliks of Calcutta are divided into two families, namely the Sil family and De family. All the Mulliks of the De family originally belong to the same family and gotra. We also formerly belonged to the branch of the De family whose members, intimately connected with the Muslim rulers, received the title Mullik." (

Caitanya-caritamrta

, purport to

Adi-lila11

.41)

 

 

 

It should also be noted that Srila Prabhupada's spiritual master, Srila Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura both appeared in the kayastha community which in Bengal is considered to be a sudra caste.

 

 

 

"It is said that the Bengali

kayastha

s

were originally engaged as servants of

brahmanas

who came from North India to Bengal. Later, the clerical class became the

kayastha

s in Bengal. Now there are many mixed classes known as

kayastha

. Sometimes it is said in Bengal that those who cannot claim any particular class belong to the

kayastha

class."(

Caitanya-caritamrta

. Purport,

Madhya

7.64)

 

 

In his autobiography Svalikhita Jivani, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura gives his family lineage and nowhere does he mention that his family belongs to the brahmana-kayastha caste:

 

 

 

 

"I was born a descendent of Purusottama Datta, a Kanyakubja

kayastha

. Among the five

kayastha

s who came to the Gauda region on the invitation of Maharaja Adisura, namely Makaranda Ghosa, Dasaratha Vasu, Kalidasa Mitra, Dasaratha Guha and Purusottama Datta, Purusottama Datta was the foremost."

 

 

Datta is a standard kayastha surname in Bengal and certainly not the title of a brahmana. If indeed Bhaktivinoda was a brahmana-kayastha, why does he not mention it in his autobiography. Why is there no reference to his upanayana ceremony in his autobiography, and how is it that we do not see him wearing a sacred-thread in any photograph?

Due to the fact that Srila Siddhanta Sarasvati gave mantra-diksa, especially to those born in brahmana families, many smarta-brahmanas and Vaisnava brahmana gurus in Bengal became outraged to the point that they hired gundas to physically attack members of the Gaudiya Matha on several occasions and even made attempts to assassinate Srila Sarasvati Thakura. If we are to accept the author's opinion in 'guru nirnaya dipika' , then we must also accept that Srila Narottama Dasa Thakura, Srila Syamananda Gosvami, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Sarasvati Thakura were ineligible to initiate since they all came from a so-called sudra class. Thus, according to the logic presented in 'guru nirnaya dipika,' our whole parampara becomes faulty and invalid thus also implying that it's authors initiation into our parampara via Srila Prabhupada is also ineffectual. Thus the author of 'guru nirnaya dipika' has in effect, 'shot himself in the foot.'

 

Birth in a brahmana family is not a major qualification to take up the responsibilities of a spiritual master. The actual prerequisites to such are thus explained by Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada:

 

 

vaco vegam manasah krodha vegam

jihvah vegam udaropastha vegam

etan vegan yo visaheta dhirah

sarvam apiman prthivih sa sisyat

 

 

 

 

 

"A sober person who can control the urge to speak, the mind, the urges of anger, the tongue, belly, and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world." (

Upadesamrta

verse 1)

 

 

Only a Vaisnava who is dhirah (sense-controlled) is qualified to become a spiritual master. Nowhere in this verse does it mention that he must be born in a particular family or caste. In other words, any qualified brahmana can act as a guru for human society, whether he is a brahmana by birth (saukra-brahmana) or a brahmana by diksa (daiksa-brahmana). This is the opinion of the Gosvamis and their true followers.

POINT 2.) The conversion of non-brahmanas into the brahmana order began in the early twentieth century by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura to encourage everyone to take to spiritual life. Even though such conversions are accepted by the scriptures to allow one to advance in spiritual life, it does not allow converted brahmanas to function as gurus.

REFUTATION: It is wrong to assume that the conversion of non-brahmanas into brahmanas only began in the early Twentieth Century with Srila Sarasvati Thakura. Throughout history, many personalities who came from non-brahmana backgrounds became brahmanas and functioned as gurus. The following is a list of personalities who were born in non-brahmana families who became qualified brahmanas and acaryas due to their qualities.

The famous sage Visvamitra was previously known as Maharaja Gadhi of the Candra-vamsa, but became a brahmana through the strength of his austerities. This is explained in Mahabharata, Adi-parva 174:

 

 

ksatriyo'ham bhavan vipras tapah-svadhyayah-sadhanah

sva-dharmam na prahasyami nesyami ca balena gam

dhig balam ksatriya-balam brahma-tejo-balam balam

balabalam viniscitya tapa eva param balam

tatapa sarvan diptaujah brahmanatvam avaptavan

 

"Visvamitra said to Vasistha: You are a brahmana, endowed with the qualities of austerity and Vedic knowledge. I am a ksatriya, so on the basis of my nature I will forcibly take this cow (Nandini).

"Later, when Visvamitra was defeated, he declared that the strength of the ksatriya was inferior to that of the brahmanas. He thus decided that the performance of austerities was the only way to empower one with superior strength.

"The greatly effulgent Visvamitra thus performed all kinds of austerities and attained the position of a brahmana."

It is well known that Visvamitra was a brahmana by conversion, yet he was also a guru with many disciples. Amongst his most famous disciples who received mantra from him were Lord Sri Ramacandra and His brother Sri Laksmana, Sunasepha, and Galava. At present many brahmana families in India trace their gotra (lineage) to Visvamitra. Furthermore, Visvamitra is the rsi (seer) of many mantras of the Rg Veda including the brahma-gayatri which is chanted by all brahmanas thrice daily.

In Chapter 30 of the Anusasana-parva of Mahabharata, the story is given of Maharaja Vitahavya who was originally a ksatriya king who became a brahmana by the mercy of Bhrgu Muni. His son, Grtsamada became a brahmacari and a brahmana sage who was equal to Brhaspati. Suceta, the son of Grtsamada, also became a brahmana. In this dynasty was born the sage Pramiti and Saunaka Rsi. Saunaka wrote many works on the Rg Veda and also wrote the Brhad-devata. He was also the guru of Sage Asvalayana. Asvalayana's disciple was Katyayana, and his disciple was Patanjali Muni.

The caste of Satyakama Jabala was unknown, yet his guru Gautama Rsi accepted him as a brahmana simply due to his truthful nature. Satyakama went on to initiate many disciples, out of which Upakosala was the most prominent.

Agnivesya Muni was born as the son of the king Devadatta, and the brahminical dynasty known as the Agnivesyayana sakha appeared from him.

Both Medhatithi and Kanva Muni were born in the ksatriya dynasty of Puru.

The sage Citramukha was born a vaisya, yet he became a brahmarsi with many disciples.

There were also other great personalities in Vedic history that were not born in brahmana families, but acted as gurus. In the Padma Purana, the original brahmana, Lord Brahma says:

 

 

sac-chrotriya-kule jato akriyo naiva pujitah

asat-kstrakule pujyo vyasa-vaibhandukay yatha

ksatriyanam kule jato visvamitro'sti matsamah

kesyaputro vasisthas ca anye siddha dvijatayah

yasya tasya kule jato gunavaneva tairgunaih

saksad brahmamayo viprah pujiyah prayatnatah

 

"If one is born in a family of brahmanas who are absorbed in hearing divine sound, but has bad character and behavior, he is not worshipable as a brahmana. On the other hand, Vyasa and Vaibhandaka Muni were born in unclean circumstances, but they are worshipable. In the same way, Visvamitra Muni was born a ksatriya, but he became a brahmana by his qualities and activities. Vasistha was born of a prostitute. Many other great personalities who manifested the qualities of first-class brahmanas also took birth in similar humble circumstances, but they are also called perfect. The place where one takes birth is of no importance in determining whether one is a brahmana. Those who have the qualities of brahmanas are recognized everywhere as brahmanas, and those who have such qualities are worshipable by everyone." (Padma Purana, Srsthi-kanda 43.321,322, Gautamiya-samskarana)

A similar verse is found in the Vajrasucika Upanisad of the Sama Veda:

 

 

 

 

tarhi jatir

brahmana

iti cet tan na tatra jatyantara-jantusu aneka-jati-sambhava maharsayo bahavah santi rsyasrngo mrgah kasuikah kusat jambuko jambukat valmiko valmikat vyasah kaivarta-kanyayam sasa-prsthat gautamah vasisthah urvasyam agastyah kalase jata iti srutatvat etesam jatya vinapyagre jnana-pratipadita rsayo bahavah santi tasman na jatih

brahmana

iti

 

 

 

"Does birth make a

brahmana

? No, this is also not the case. Many great sages have been born of other living entities. Rsyasrnga was born from a deer, Kausika was born from kusa grass, Jambuka was born from a jackal, Valmiki was born from an ant-hill, Vyasadeva was born from a fisherman's daughter, Gautama was born from the back of a rabbit, Vasistha was born from Urvasi and Agastya was born from a pot. Apart from these personalities, there are many other wise persons born from other castes who became sages. Therefore birth does not make a

brahmana

."

 

 

All the great historical personages mentioned above were not born brahmanas or had mixed parentage, yet they acted as spiritual masters to thousands of disciples.

In more recent times, many Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas who were not born in brahmana families have accepted the role of guru. These personalities include Srila Gadadhara Dasa Thakura, Sri Mukunda Dasa, Srila Narottama Dasa Thakura, Srila Syamananda Gosvami, Srila Rasikananda Prabhu, Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Uddharana Datta Thakura, Srila Jagannatha Dasa Babaji Maharaja, Srila Gaura-kisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. Amongst the many disciples of Srila Sarasvati Thakura who were not born in brahmana families, but who acted as acaryas are such personalities as Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada, Srila Bhakti Pradipa Tirtha Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Kevala Audulomi Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja and Srila Bhakti Kumuda Santa Maharaja.

However, at least two stalwart disciples of Srila Sarasvati Thakura, namely Srila Bhakti Pramoda Puri Gosvami Maharaja and Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Maharaja were both born in illustrious brahmana families, yet they gave the power of succession to two of their senior disciples who were not born brahmanas, namely Sripada Bhakti Vibudha Bodhayana Maharaja and Sripada Bhakti Vallabha Tirtha Maharaja.

It is also interesting to note that according to the memoirs of Sri Paramananda Vidyaratna Prabhu in Sarasvati Jayasri, (the first official biography of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura written during his lifetime), Srila Sarasvati Thakura visited the sripata of Srila Narahari Sarakara Thakura in 1912 and learned that upanayana and other samskaras were being performed since ancient times for vaidyas (ayurvedic doctors). Vaidyas were considered as sudras yet the descendents of Srila Narahari still initiated them with gayatri etc. This information was given to Srila Sarasvati Thakura by the mahanta of Sri Khanda, Sriyukta Radhikananda Mahasaya. It is also noteworthy that Srila Narahari Sarakara Thakura himself was not a brahmana, yet he gave initiation to Srila Locana Dasa Thakura who was born in a brahmana family.

Of course, we expect the author of 'guru nirnaya dipika' will attempt to refute all the above evidence by claiming that all these personalities were extraordinary and such devotees cannot be found in this day and age. Nonetheless, these great personalities have set the precedence and we find none of them speaking to the contrary. As Sri Krsna has stated in Bhagavad-gita (3:21):

 

 

yad yad acarati sresthas tad tad evetaro janah

sa yat pramanam kurute lokas tad anuvartate

 

"Whatever a great man does, the world follows. Whatever standards he may set, the world follows in his footsteps."

Thus the conjecture that converted brahmanas cannot function as acaryas has no basis in pauranika history or in the history of our sampradaya and thus the idea should be rejected.