Sonic Yogi

I shall begin by describing the disciplic succession descended from Sripada Madhvacarya. Lord Brahma, the creator of the universe became the disciple of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Narayana. Brahma's disciple was Narada. Narada's disciple was Vyasa. Vyasa then transmitted transcendental knowledge to his disciple Sukadeva. Sukadeva taught the same knowledge to his many disciples and grand-disciples in this world. The famous Madhvacarya received initiation from Vyasa personally. Madhvacarya carefully studied all the Vedas from Vyasa, and later wrote his book 'Mayavada-sata-dusani', where he proved that the Absolute Truth is the Supreme Person, full of all transcendental qualities, and not the quality-less impersonal Brahman. Madhvacarya's disciple was the exalted Padmanabhacarya. Padmanabhacarya's disciple was Narahari. Narahari's disciple was Madhava-dvija. Madhava-dvija's disciple was Aksobhya. Aksobhya's disciple was Jaya Tirtha. Jaya Tirtha's disciple was Jnanasindhu. Jnanasindhu's disciple was Mahanidhi. Mahanidhi's disciple was Vidyanidhi. Vidyanidhi's disciple was Rajendra. Rajendra's disciple was Jayadharma Muni. Among Jayadharma Muni's disciples was Sriman Visnupuri, the famous author of the 'Bhakti-ratnavali'. Another disciple of Jayadharma was Brahmana Purusottama. Purusottama's disciple was Vyasa Tirtha, who wrote the famous book Sri Visnu-samhita. Vyasa Tirtha's disciple was Sriman Laksmipati, who was like a great reservoir of the nectar of devotional service. Laksmipati's disciple was Madhavendra Puri, a great preacher of devotional service. Madhavendra Puri was the incarnation of a kalpa-vrksa tree in the abode of Vraja. This tree bears as its fruits the mellows of servitude to Lord Krsna, friendship with Lord Krsna, parental love for Lord Krsna, and conjugal love for Lord Krsna. Madhavendra Puri's disciple was Sriman Isvara Puri Svami. Isvara Puri carefully understood the mellows of conjugal love for Lord Krsna, and was able to distribute that fruit to others. Sri Advaita Acarya displayed the sentiments of servitorship and friendship for the Lord, and Sriman Ranga Puri manifested the sentiment of parental love for Lord Krsna. Lord Caitanya accepted Sriman Isvara Puri as His spiritual master. The Lord proceeded to flood the entire world with spontaneous transcendental love for Krsna

Really? Then why is iskcon initiating so many unqualified individuals into the sacred thread, etc? If you can't change their nature, then what is the point of saying that they are becoming qualified brahmanas?

Really?

ISKCON is initiating brahmanas?

How can a corporation initiate anyone?

Aren't "gurus" in ISKCON doing the initiation?

He probably regretted not getting into their fabulous guru-con act and not being part of their mob...

Ok, so now lets blame Gurukripa for things he didn't do.

It will take you ten thousand lifetimes to do the service Gurukripa did in just one.

One thing that the Krip and me have in common is that we both have blue eyes.

Sure he did. Sometimes we have to see that the real guru knows everything. Sometimes we need to be logical. Gurukrpa had drug problems at that time and he has admitted it.

Isn't there some marble inlaid plaque on the Vrindavan Gurukula (orderd by Srila Prabhupada) thanking the Krip for 2.5 million $$$ for the building of the facility?

Did Prabhupada not tell some gay disciple (Umapati?) to stick to one boyfriend and practice KC? ?

That is hearsay, undocumented rumor and has nothing legitimate to support that claim.

It is one of them "Prabhupada said" stories that there is no verifiable evidence of.

It's just an ISKCON rumor.

In Prabhupada's will, he appointed Gurukripa as the first name he mentioned as executor of his will.

So. Prabhupada obviously had some special regard for Gurukripa Maharaja.

9. I hereby appoint Guru Krpa Swami, Hrdayananda Gosvami, Tamal Krishna Gosvami, Rameshwar Swami, Gopal Krishna das Adhikari, Jayatirtha das Adhikari and Giriraj das Brahmachary to act as executors of this will. I have made this will this 4th day of June, 1977, in possession of full sense and sound mind, without any persuasion, force or compulsion from anybody.

Yes, that was the practice: end justifies the means. And this approach had very serious consequences for our movement. Very bad consequences.

Not really.

That stuff has all blown over.

What is holding back ISKCON now is the enemy within.

There are no legal issues challenging ISKCON today because of some dirty money that filtered in.

The only thing holding back the KC movement is internal squabbling and splintering due to lack of cooperation.

You keep trying to blow these old things out of proportion.

These things are big problems only in your mind.

They really aren't any kind of legal issues facing the movement today.

Fact is that the KC movement is never going to become mainstream in today's scientific world.

The KC movememt is a cult and always will be a cult for a counterculture of people who drop out of the mainstream society.

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.20.26

 

pāhi māḿ paramātmaḿs te

 

preṣaṇenāsṛjaḿ prajāḥ

 

tā imā yabhituḿ pāpā

 

upākrāmanti māḿ prabho

 

SYNONYMS

 

pāhi — protect; mām — me; parama-ātman — O Supreme Lord; te — Your; preṣaṇena — by order; asṛjam — I created; prajāḥ — living beings; tāḥ imāḥ — those very persons; yabhitum — to have sex; pāpāḥ — sinful beings; upākrāmanti — are approaching; mām — me; prabho — O Lord.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Lord Brahmā, approaching the Lord, addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me.

 

PURPORT

 

It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahmā. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.

Why then did he give sannyasa to an openly homosexual disciple like Kirtananda? how about Bhavs? That guy was a homosexual gigolo before he joined... Prabhupada made them into leaders of his movement and gave them sannyasa. And you are freaking out because Hridayananda send a blessing to some gay people?

No.

He was a "reformed" homo, not an "Openly" homo.

Don't try to say that Prabhupada gave any position to any "openly" or practicing homosexual.

That would be just wrong and you should know that by know.

I remember back in the day when Gurukripa was like a rock star in the eyes of new devotees like myself.

I was actually afraid of Gurukripa.

He looked like a thug to me.

Yet, he had this mystique in ISKCON amongst new devotees like some famous Hollywood star or rock star.

But, he did lead a great kirtan and walked around with his head high and very much pleased with himself.

Gurukripa was just someone to be revered and feared as far as I was concerned.

I certainly never wanted to meet him or talk to him personally.

But, "the Krip" was cool.

He was one of the most colorful characters in the history of ISKCON.

I would love to set down and just talk for days to Gurukripa now.

I think he is just as cool as can be.

This has got to be the coolest video of all time.

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apart from brahma samhita and other similar vaishnav texts which other scripture dealing with nature of brahman says as such ??

No study of Vedānta is considered complete without a close examination of the Prasthāna Traya, the texts that stand as the three starting points.

So, we cannot just say "is it in Vedanta Sutras".

There is sruti, smrti and nyaya.

The Brahma sūtras, also known as Vedānta Sūtras, constitute the Nyāya prasthāna, the logical starting point of the Vedānta philosophy (Nyāya = logic/order). No study of Vedānta is considered complete without a close examination of the Prasthāna Traya, the texts that stand as the three starting points. The Brahma Sutras are attributed to Badarayana.

While the Upanishads (Śruti prasthāna, the starting point of revelation) and the Bhagavad-Gītā (Smriti prasthāna, the starting point of remembered tradition) are the basic source texts of Vedānta, it is in the Brahma sūtras that the teachings of Vedānta are set forth in a systematic and logical order.

The soldiers in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power.

Soldiers?

Wouldn't that be a Ksatriya?

Should a brahmana have "sensual power"?

Did that refer to every devotee in the movement or the Ksatriyas?

By the way, who were the Ksatriyas and what sort of weapons were they issued?

I thought ISKCON was meant for creating a class of brahmanas?

There you go again. Saying Srila Prabhupada passed them off as diksa gurus, when the only definitions he ever gave for Diksa guru makes that an impossibility. You have no evidence that he ever authorized anyone to be Diksa Guru or Appointed anyone Diksa Guru. Devotees have practically written doctoral Theses on the subject and the evidence is hard, clear, and unambiguous.

 

Of course we do have evidence that he called the people initiating on his behalf Ritviks, and representatives of the Acaraya, which is well in accordance with the descriptions of ritviks in Bhagavatam and Sanskrit dictionary. And all anyone was qualified to do anyway.

 

Your word, or the evidence? HMMMMM...

 

 

 

So he never cared much about the formality. What planet were you living on? He cared a great deal about it. Instituted it carefully, gave reams of instructions about it, left institution wide instructions about how they were to be managed in the future. Please, these statements make you look silly.

 

Granted, he deemphasised it IN RELATION to receiving the transcendental knowledge through Siksa, and called the sincere response to his message "real initiation". But both angles of vision are easily rectified simultaneously without having to concoct reasons to change his system.

I am starting to like you more already.

Yeah, well, Sonic, we haven't all been able to stay young and trim as you. I'll tell you one thing, though (and I told this to him when I saw him in Honolulu ten years ago), the dude can still cook a kirtan. And maybe even better than before, in some ways.

Yeah, I am real specimen that is for sure.

 

Prabhupada most certainly chose himself the people authorized to initiate in his absence. .

So, you are saying that Prabhupada appointed a gang of neophytes to imitate an acharya.

Let's hope so.

From time to time I run into various 'anti-cult enemies of our movement' that continue to use these old news as an example of the cultist nature of our movement.

Who cares what them fools think.

In western countries the academia in the universities all respect the Hare Krishna movement as an authentic religion from India.

Amongst intellectuals and scholars the KC movement has well been established as a very legitimate spiritual movement.

Who really gives a hoot what the anti-cult loonies think and say?

Their opinion is worthless to the actual intellectual circles in western academia.

Gurukripa's misadventures left no permanent stain on ISKCON.

His antics have blown away like a bad fart at a GBC meeting.

None of that stuff really matters to the future of ISKCON.

The issues that today are holding ISKCON back have nothing to do with Gurukripa's scams in Japan over 30 years ago.

And you still think we should not make a big deal out of it?

Perhaps you are right. Speaking openly about this issue places our movement in a very bad light. After all, Srila Prabhupada knew this money was not raised in a clean way. I'm not sure if he knew all the nasty details but he knew enough to suspect what was going on and start asking questions.

 

Btw. I was hoping Gurukripa starts talking before he dies. IMO this issue needs to be resolved, not swept up under the carpet. Dirty money most certainly polluted our movement, just like the shastras say.

That Gurukripa stuff is old news.

Nobody gives a hoot about that stuff anymore.

What does matter now is the mess that the GBC is continuing to keep ISKCON in with the abject refusal to allow ISKCON out of it.

The Gurukripa scams are old news.

There are no criminal cases, laws suits or other such issues involving Gurukripa in Japan.

That stuff is ancient history that today amounts to no more than hearsay.

It is a shame that my false ego pops its head in via my style, sarcasm, and other poor characteristics. Because I know my analyses are mostly spot on, because I let my Guru tell the truth and then repeat it in my own way.

 

I am not certain if I was completely neutral and robotic in my presentation that I would be any better liked or respected, especially by those who we all know aren't looking to change and are trying to make a career out of being a pseudo-acarya like Muni.

 

But they help me sharpen my sword, and maybe my fire and commitment adds something to those who are on the fence watching the debate. Hard to say.

 

But If I know the truth, and the people I am debating with don't know and usually don't ACTUALLY CARE, and I know that....

 

I avoid ad hominems, but call a spade a spade. And I wouldn't even be here doing this but for 2 reasons.

 

1. I don't have the land or finances to start my own temple. I am mostly qualfied (Toot toot of my own horn) but waiting on an imminent financial windfall. If I was totally qualified it would be in my hands right now I suppose.

 

2. None of the older Prabhus who I actually look up to, Like you, Have anything going on either. And I have tried to play middle man messenger between select older Prabhus, hoping to assist in healing old wounds and mending fences so that a synergy might develop between Y'all, because it would also benefit me by being able to take shelter of a regular Harinama sankirtana group. But to no avail.

 

And I refuse to go hang at an Itsgone temple.

 

So until I get my commission I will be on the internet. Trolling for trolls, and flailing my sword like a maniac. What fun.

 

Thanks for your patience with me.

 

Hare Krsna

Most often I played a role in the forums very much unlike the role I play in everyday life.

I too am very thick-skinned and am not out to win any popularity contests.

I still take the opportunity once in a while to play the antagonist like I did recently with my old friend Shiva (Gaurahari das) because I just really got tired of seeing him on the internet year after year trying to pose like some scholar and intellectual when I know darn good and well is he neither.

So, I finally expressed my disgust with his arrogant and condescending manner by just coming right back at him.

Anyway, I guess we both have a tendency to speak our minds a little harshly and undiplomatically.

But, when I see that in someone else other than myself I see how really pathetic it is.

Reading your writings here make me reflect on my history of being the forum bad guy who talks harshly not caring for the sensitivities of others.

It kinda makes me want to change and quit being such a jerk.

Maybe someday you will come to that realization also.

But, for now you can play the know it all talking down to the other members and I will try get away from that stuff and be more humble and sincere.

I hereby bequeath thee my honorary title as the forum TROLL.

(but, I reserve the right to take it back on a moment's notice if I ever get the whim)

LOL @ "Gurukripa was using some very risky fundraising practices" ...that is a true 'euphemism'

 

another example of the 'end justifies the means' doctrine imported from Talmud...

I probably know more about it than you do.

I had some nice conversations with one of the top boys in the party in Japan.

I knew about Gurukripa's scams back in the mid-seventies when most of ISKCON was totally ignorant of what he was doing in Japan.

I am sorry that I offended you yesterday. But it would be a shame if you let that color your judgement here. I am not trying to demonstrate anything to anyone. If you look objectively, I read what kula said, and countered it with commentary based strictly on what Srila Prabhupada said.

 

If someone feels that being corrected is being talked down to, then you have pissed off hundreds of people in your day.

OK, I am passing the torch to you.

I don't need to be the forum nemesis and resident jerk anymore because I finally found someone more qualified than me.

That's great.

Being the forum bad guy gets old after a while.

Good luck.

Have fun with being unpopular and disliked.

You are the right man for the job.

In this purport Srila Prabhupada gives a figure of the size of the universe that is much larger than the 4 billion square miles mentioned in the 5th canto.

In the 5th canto it says the universe is 2 billion square miles x 2 or 4 billion square miles, but in this purport he says the universe is 2 billion TIMES 2 billion square miles which is a number bigger than I can calculate. It also describes the Moon that is further from Earth than the Sun as a moon that is in the topmost strata of the universe which therefore cannot be the moon of the Earth.

My guess is that this figure of the size of the universe as 2 billion X 2 billion is more likely the correct figure than the 2 billion X 2 figure we hear of.

 

SB 2.5. 40-41:

Or is this purport in error and the 5th canto figure correct?