Sonic Yogi

In the above quote from Bhaktivinoda quoting Jiva Goswami where he states that the eternal jiva associates of the lord are still tatastha.

I haven't seen that anywhere.

I think your imagination is just running wild.

The personal associates of Radha and Krishna are not marginal energy.

You are just imagining that they are.

when the jiva gets imbued with hladini shakti he is not "marginal" anymore, but has been taken into the internal energy.

There is nothing marginal in the whole of Goloka.

It is all internal energy.

No marginal energy there.

Duh, there are unlimited marginal jivas in the spiritual sky.

They are make up what is known as the brahmajyoti.

But, the personal associates of Krishna are not "marginal" anything.

Can the professor please show us where the associates of Radha and Krishna are "marginal" living entities?

Who is the guru of Sri Acharya?

Did his guru empower him to this mission?

Anyone that thinks that the liberated souls who are the associates of Krishna in Goloka to be "marginal" shakti is surely smoking some good Maui-wowee!!

None of us needs to be coming off like finished professors that have it all figured out because we took a lot of LSD.

Interestingly both sides are correct. Tatastha is a place, a theoretical place, so from that viewpoint, yes, it really isn't a place. But then again if you don't consider it a place, at least theoretically, then you will miss many of the more subtle explanations of the acaryas. Its just words anyway, its really the thoughts that the acaryas are trying to convey with the use of words that is important. Also words are used for time, place and circumstance. Circumstance in the world of syntax would be called context. A word, yes even a sanskrit word, will often have a different meaning in relation to the context in which it is used. It is difficult enough to express siddhanta in Sanskrit or even Sanskritized Bengali, what to speak of English. But what can be done, today everyone is an expert, even Bhakta so and so, can get on the internet soapbox and spout - whatever? Everyone wants to interpret Srila Prabhupada according to their own mentality without accepting any guidance and think that their conception is "As It Is". It reminds me of the Tower of Babel in the Old Testament.

The Viraja river or causal ocean is also referred to as "the marginal plane".

So, the "tatastha" jiva is the jiva that is manifested by Maha-Vishnu as he rests in the Viraja river or the "marginal" plane between the spiritual and material worlds.

Not all jivas are "tatastha" jivas.

There are also jivas that are integrated into the internal potency. (svarupa-shakti)

Marginal jivas are the jivas that are bereft of hladini-shakti (love of Krishna).

To think that the gopi jivas in Krsnaloka are marginal is just wrong.

In fact all the gopis are expanded via the hladini-shakti and are not "jivas" anymore.

I quoted shastra above to show that all the gopis are expansions of Radha.

They are NOT tatastha-jivas manifested by Paramatma.

That is not accurate. The search capability for words used by the vedabase only searches for words in verses, it doesn't search for words in the purports.

duh,no kidding?

But, if the word doesn't appear in the verse, then quoting a purport won't hold up when you are discussing with those who aren't disciples of Prabhupada.

Purports are comments.

I am after shastric quotes not comments.

TLC ch.20

When the infinitesimal living entities are engaged in their infinitesimal desires for material enjoyment, they are called jīva-śakti, but when they are dovetailed with the infinite, they are called liberated souls.

Did anyone get that?

They are called "jiva-shakti" up and until they are liberated.

The jivatama becomes "mahatma".

Then we find they are called 'mahatma" by Lord Krishna, Lord Siva etc.

There is a modern day saying "spiritual but not religious".

The one thing that is worse than that is "religious but not spiritual".

(Christians)

S.B. 3.32.40 purport:

Also, there are so-called disciples who become submissive to a spiritual master most artificially, with an ulterior motive. They also cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa consciousness or devotional service is. Persons who, due to being initiated by another sect of religious faith, do not find devotional service as the common platform for approaching the Supreme Personality of Godhead, also cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have experience that some students come to join us, but because of being biased in some particular type of faith, they leave our camp and become lost in the wilderness. Actually, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a sectarian religious faith; it is a teaching process for understanding the Supreme Lord and our relationship with Him. Anyone can join this movement without prejudice, but unfortunately there are persons who feel differently. It is better, therefore, not to instruct the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to such persons.

How many times does sanatan have to explain he was not asserting anything?

I don't recall writing that Sanatan specifically asserted anything.

Why could I have not been referring to the source where he says he heard about the idea?

Nonetheless, repeating such ridiculous claims being espoused by some Hare Kristians is certainly begging for an argument.

what is the labelling of this rennet on the packets (in the U.S.)?

 

is it considered vegetarian by devotees?

Most devotees don't consider it vegetarian, but then again most devotees aren't aware that most cheese in the USA is cultured with microbial rennet as opposed to animal rennet.

the best bet is to try and check with the different brands of cheese to see if they use microbial or animal rennet.

Generally, the bigger the cheese company the more likely they are to use microbial rennet as it is much cheaper for such mass production purposes.

Smaller specialty cheese makers in the USA are about the only ones that might possibly use animal rennet these days.

Anyone who would assert that some petty Christians who were a tiny little cult in India at that time influenced Madvacharya would do so only out of extreme ignorance of the history and culture of India.

You would have to be living in a lot of ignorance of the history and culture of India to make such a pathetic claim.

Such a ridiculous proposition exposes a very deep lack of understanding of Indian culture and religion typical of Christian bigots.

Christians in India at that time were considered untouchables of the lowest order as meat-eaters - mlecchas and outcastes.

To say that a great Vedic philosopher like Madhva was influences by some untouchables in India is laughable.

Aside from the fact that you totally evaded Kaiser's questions along with mine, you are now just speculating wildly with no idea what you are saying.

 

I think the root of this problem, like that of many others on this forum, is your desire to preach without having made the necessary sacrifice of time to commit yourself to learning the subject matter properly under a qualified guru. A true student will admit when he does not know rather than concocting more fluff to conceal his ignorance. But in your behavior I do not see this sort of humility; rather, you seem desperate to prove that you are right even when it has been proven that you are incorrect.

 

Suffice it to say that the Vedanta-sutra clearly teaches the concept of beginningless karma. Baladeva Vidyabhushana, the Vedanta commentary for the Gaudiya sampradaya, also accepts beginningless karma (not beginningless "spiritual" karma or other concoctions of your fertile imagination). Nothing in the Bhagavata contradicts the concept of beginningless karma. As you have indicated, you disagree with all of the above, which makes any claim you could make of representing Gaudiya Vaishnavism tenuous at best.

In the Vedic shastra, karma in it's most fundamental concept means prescribed duties in the varnashrama system.

The anadi-karma you keep referring to are the prescribed duties of the Varnashrama system.

You keep trying to use "karma" in the sense of vikarma or ugrakarma etc., while you ignore the fact that karma also means "prescribed duties".

Your narrow interpretation of the meaning of karma negates the many references in Vedic shastra to the fact the the jivas have fallen down into material existance.

If they were always contaminated by material existence, then there would certainly be no meaning to "fallen" in terms of the condition of the jivas in the material energy.

If "karma" is "anadi" in the absolute and eternal sense that you are trying to make it, then certainly the conditioned jivas could not rightly be called "fallen".

Karma is a relative principle.

You cannot assign absolute values to the relative principle of karma.

By assigning absolute values to the karma of the jiva you in effect put all the blame on God for the fallen condition of the living entity and remove all culpability of the spirit soul.

You remove the principle of free-will and the misuse thereof as well.

So, I don't buy your absolute and eternal theory of the anadi-karma of the jiva.

To do so would negate the principle of free will in the jiva and blame God for the suffering of all the conditioned living entities.

A culture as rich and complex as the Vedic culture has not even a remote possibility of having any connection at all with the very simplistic and unsophisticated Christian and Jewish faiths.

The Vedic shastras as so vast and sophisticated that there is NO chance that Christianity had any influence on the Vedic culture.

In fact, the Old Testament is simply remnants of the Upanishads.

Tidbits and fragments of religious idea from the Upanishads filtered over from South Asia to the Middle East.

The middle east was just a tribal land of sheepherders and nomads while South Asia was a sophisticated Vedic civilization.

In fact, even Jesus is a myth derived from Zoroastrian origins.

There is nothing original about Christianity.

It is a mongrel religion that is a mix of Vedic remnants and Zoroastrian influence.

The Christians even claim that Krishna the cowherd boy was a spin-off of Jesus the shepherd.

Christians think they are the center of the universe and all other religions are some sort of copy cat religion that was ripped-off from Christianity.

They obviously are clueless about history.

They did not recommend sutras, you are right. But did Mahaprabhu explicitly say that Karma has a beginning? Or does the Bhagavatam?

 

Since Baladeva comes in the line of your Acharyas, his words ought to have some value, if not very much. Do you just dismiss him away or do you attempt to reconcile his commentary on the Sutras with the rest of your beliefs? Or do you think that is not necessary?

 

Also, in a line of Gurus, if 2 Gurus have said 2 different things, which Guru do you pick and why?

 

Cheers

Beginningless means that something has no beginning.

If your life had no beginning would you be here now?

If America had no beginning would it be here now?

What part of beginningless is it that we cannot understand?

Karma has no beginning because in fact karma is an illusion.

The spirit soul has no karma.

The spirit soul is pure spirit.

Karma is caused by Krishna, the cause of all causes.

The jiva's karma has no beginning because the jiva is transcendental to karma.

Beginning less means that it never really began, because in fact it is not reality.

Because in reality if something begins it is eternal.

( )

Thx

NP

Then again. pastime doesn't necessarily have to indicate something to do with time itself.

As we see in dictionary, it can also just indicate recreation, amusement or sporting.

pas⋅time

 

>  /ˈpæsˌtaɪm, ˈpɑs-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pas-tahym, pahs-] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun something that serves to make time pass agreeably; a pleasant means of amusement, recreation, or sport: to play cards as a pastime.

Check out this.

The Indian Spice Turmeric

<center>Turmeric May Help Prevent

Alzheimer's and Parkinson's Diseases

An ancient remedy may enliven your brain as well as your food</center>he spice of life - how many times have you heard that term applied to something especially nice? It might be chocolate truffles, or the music of Mozart, or playing with children. Part of the spice of life, of course, is that there are so many different spices to choose from, both figuratively and literally. On the literal side, there are food spices galore in many parts of the world, especially Southeast Asia, which is particularly rich in these botanical treasures. One of them, turmeric, has actually been called "the spice of life" since ancient times.¹

Southeast Asia is the fabled source of the spices that Marco Polo and those who followed him brought back to Europe to enliven the dull fare that had been eaten there for millennia (they didn't even have pizza, if you can imagine that). The people of Europe - the wealthy ones, anyway - became wildly enamored of spices, which were more highly prized than gold and jewels for as long as they remained rare. Eventually they flooded the market and were joyfully embraced by everyone.

<center><hr width="50%">Turmeric's anti-inflammatory

properties have aroused great

interest, as well as its effects on

cholesterol and cancer. <hr width="50%"></center>How fortunate for the people of India, China, and other countries in that region of the world that they had always been able to enjoy these spices - often at blast-furnace intensity - with their daily meals. The spices were, and are, undeniably pleasant in their own right as sources of flavor and zest, but they often served other, more practical, purposes as well: to mask the odor and taste of rancid meat and to inhibit further spoilage (these were vital factors in Europe as well, before the advent of refrigeration). One did what one could to survive.

Does Curry Prevent Alzheimer's Disease?

<table width="131" align="right" border="1" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6"><tbody><tr><td>

Marco Polo brought turmeric to Europe.</td></tr></tbody></table>Life, though, is about health and happiness, not just survival. If spices make us happy, do they also help our health? Yes indeed. Scientists continue to learn more and more about the health benefits of various spices and herbs, whose exotic chemical constituents can affect many aspects of our physiology beyond our taste buds. First there is gastrointestinal function, because everything we eat goes directly to the stomach. But if some of those spicy compounds pass from the intestines into the bloodstream, the entire body becomes their laboratory, so to speak - including, of course, the brain.

Consider this: elderly (aged 70-79) residents of rural India, who eat large amounts of curry, appear to have the lowest incidence of Alzheimer's disease in the world: 4.4 times lower than that of Americans.² Does that mean that curry helps prevent Alzheimer's? Perhaps, but it's impossible to say, because innumerable other factors (dietary, genetic, social, economic, lifestyle-related, etc.) would have to be taken into account, and systematically ruled out, before any such conclusion could be drawn. But the correlation is suggestive, and there are scientific reasons for believing that there may indeed be a real effect there.

The Key Component of Curry Is Turmeric

Curry, perhaps the quintessential Asian spice, is a pungent seasoning prepared from cumin, coriander, turmeric, and other spices native to that continent. Not surprisingly, there are countless variations on the curry theme, depending on who is preparing it. It is the turmeric in curry that has attracted the attention of scientists, in part because turmeric has a long history of medicinal use in India, particularly in the traditional medical philosophy known as Ayurveda.

<table width="169" align="right" border="1" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="6"><tbody><tr><td>

Figure 1. The fleshy rhizomes of turmeric (Curcuma longa), from which the yellow spice is extracted. Rhizomes, a kind of horizontal, underground stem, often send out roots and shoots from their nodes. They are also called rootstalks or rootstocks.</td></tr></tbody></table>The turmeric plant (Curcuma longa, also known as Curcuma domestica) is a member of the ginger family. It has yellow flowers and aromatic, somewhat fleshy rhizomes (see Figure 1) that, when dried, yield a bright yellow powder commonly used as a spice or coloring agent - sometimes both, as in certain yellow mustards. As a spice, turmeric serves not only to jazz up the food but also to help protect it from spoilage and protect its nutritive value, because it contains potent antioxidant chemicals whose action inhibits the oxidative degradation of foodstuffs.

Can Turmeric Protect Us from Oxidative Degradation?

If turmeric can protect foodstuffs from oxidative degradation, can it do the same, more or less, for our bodies, which are composed entirely of former foodstuffs? When it comes to meat, in particular, isn't there really relatively little difference between a piece of beef and us, biochemically speaking? The answer to both questions is yes. Most of the antioxidative chemical reactions that can protect a piece of beef from spoiling can also protect our tissues from spoiling, so to speak.

The chemical compounds in turmeric that are primarily responsible for its antioxidant action are curcumin and several related compounds called curcuminoids (no, they're not related to cucumbers, despite the oddly similar names). They belong to a broad class of compounds called polyphenols, many of which have been found to have major health benefits in humans.

Turmeric, the "Multi-Anti" Spice

In herbal medicine, turmeric (in the form of an extract of Curcuma longa) has been found to have the following effects:³

 

• Antihepatotoxic - it has a protective effect on the liver
  
• Antihyperlipidemic - it inhibits the excessive buildup of lipids (fatty substances, such as cholesterol) in the blood
  
• Anti-inflammatory - it reduces inflammation
  
• Antioxidant - it scavenges free radicals and inhibits lipid peroxide formation, especially in the liver
  
• Antitumoral - it inhibits the formation of tumors, including cancerous ones
  
• Antimicrobial - it inhibits the action of microorganisms such as bacteria
  
• Antifertile - it has a contraceptive effect
  
• Anti-insect - that's right, it acts as an insect repellent, a bonus

Turmeric Has Many Uses As an Anti-Inflammatory

Among the many conditions for which turmeric is sometimes used (but note that these are unproven uses by modern medical standards) are gastrointestinal problems (dyspepsia, upper abdominal pain, bloating, colic, flatulence, and diarrhea), intermittent fever, edema (swelling), bronchitis, colds, worms, leprosy, kidney inflammation, cystitis (inflammation of the urinary bladder), headaches, chest infections, and amenorrhea (the abnormal suppression or absence of menstruation). Externally, it is used for bruising, leech bites, festering eye infections, inflammation of the oral mucosa, inflammatory skin conditions, and infected wounds.³

How many of these uses are legitimate, even if unproven, and how many are based on nothing more substantial than wishful thinking and the placebo effect? Who knows? Our scientific (as opposed to folkloric) knowledge of herbal medicine is still immature, with vast areas yet to be explored before we can be certain of what really works and what does not, and why.

<center><hr width="50%">Curcumin is several times more

potent than vitamin E as an

antioxidant, and it protects the

brain from lipid peroxidation. <hr width="50%"></center>But there are valuable clues along the way, such as recurrent patterns of effect. The perceptive reader (that's you - wake up!) will have noticed, for example, that a particular concept kept cropping up in the description given above: inflammation. Aha! Maybe we're on to something here. Indeed, it is the anti-inflammatory properties of turmeric that have aroused the greatest interest in the medical community, although its ability to lower blood cholesterol is also recognized, as well as its anticancer effects in laboratory animals and humans.^1,4

Ordinary Anti-Inflammatories Protect Against Alzheimer's Disease

Among the most prevalent kinds of inflammation is that of arthritis, and turmeric is widely used to ease the pain of this disease, in both of its major forms: osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. Inflammation takes many forms, however, and it can occur in many places throughout the body. One such place is the brain, where Alzheimer's disease becomes manifest, in part, through the formation of a kind of plaque called amyloid. This is a hard, waxy deposit, consisting of proteins and polysaccharides, that results from the degeneration of tissue. Turmeric has been found to be helpful here too. Let's see how and why it came to be studied for this purpose.

Accompanying the formation of amyloid is chronic inflammation of the affected tissues, and among the most common treatments for inflammation in general is the use of NSAIDs (nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs), such as the over-the-counter medications aspirin and ibuprofen. A recent study has found that adults who took NSAIDs for at least two years had a dramatically reduced risk (80% lower!) for Alzheimer's disease than those who used these drugs for shorter periods or who did not take them at all.⁵ Furthermore, research has shown that chronic treatment with ibuprofen suppresses inflammation and the development of amyloid in a special strain of "transgenic" mice whose DNA was augmented with a human Alzheimer's gene.⁶ In other words, ibuprofen gives some protection to mice that are predisposed to develop Alzheimer's disease.

Curcumin: An Extraordinary Anti-Inflammatory Is Better

All this would be great, except for one huge drawback: the chronic use of conventional NSAIDs such as ibuprofen carries a high risk of severe irritation or ulceration of the stomach, as well as occasional kidney or liver damage. Because of that, researchers have sought other strategies for preventing Alzheimer's. It is known that the disease is associated with significant oxidative damage caused by free radicals, and laboratory studies have shown that antioxidants can protect neurons (brain cells) from the ravages of amyloid. So it made sense to try a well-known antioxidant, such as vitamin E, to see if it could slow down the development of the disease.

Vitamin E, however, turned out not to be the right kind of antioxidant for the job, mainly because it is a poor scavenger of nitric oxide-based free radicals produced during inflammation. (Nitric oxide is itself a free radical, and although it serves a number of vital functions in the body, it can be harmful under the wrong circumstances.) So other researchers (at UCLA) looked for a powerful antioxidant of the right kind, and found curcumin, the main active ingredient in turmeric. Curcumin is several times more potent than vitamin E as an antioxidant,⁷ and it is known to protect the brain from lipid peroxidation⁸ and to scavenge nitric oxide-based free radicals.⁹ It is also known to be nontoxic and virtually free of side effects.⁴

Curcumin Is Effective in Several Ways

The UCLA researchers undertook to study the effect of curcumin on the combined oxidative and inflammatory damage that occurs as a response to amyloid formation in those transgenic, Alzheimer's-predisposed mice. When they become old and develop Alzheimer's, the poor little critters display symptoms of age-related nerve-cell damage caused by amyloid plaque, a quantifiable inflammatory response, oxidative damage, and age-related memory deficits linked to defective long-term memory.

In the study, the mice were tested with both low and high doses of dietary curcumin to determine its effect on inflammation, oxidative damage, and plaque pathology. Both the low and high doses of curcumin were found to suppress inflammation and oxidative damage significantly, as evidenced by microscopic and biochemical analyses of specific sections of the mouse brains; the biochemical tests focused on certain molecules whose levels are sensitive indicators of the conditions in question. The effect of curcumin on amyloid was different, however: the plaque formation was significantly reduced by the low dose but not by the high dose (which was 31 times greater than the low dose), indicating yet again that more is not always better - or even as good.

Curcumin May Prevent Alzheimer's and Parkinson's Diseases

The researchers noted that both Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease are linked to increased oxidative damage to the brain, including nitric oxide-based damage to a specific protein called synuclein.¹⁰ They speculated that curcumin may effectively inhibit this type of damage and that its apparent ability to target several different mechanisms implicated in the development of Alzheimer's disease may make it a more effective agent than more potent but more specific inhibitors of any of the individual mechanisms.

The researchers concluded by saying,

 

 

Hence, curcumin is not only efficacious at multiple levels but may have fewer side effects and toxicity than many other NSAIDs, including ibuprofen. Together, the multiple beneficial effects of curcumin make it a promising agent for controlled clinical trials to establish its safety and efficacy as a chronic antioxidant and NSAID prophylactic for prevention or treatment of Alzheimer's and possibly other neurodegenerative diseases of aging, such as Parkinson's disease.

 

"Chronic antioxidant" means an antioxidant that would be taken chronically, i.e., regularly for a long period of time. And curcumin is referred to here as an NSAID because it is one: it's nonsteroidal, it's anti- inflammatory, and it's a drug - well, sort of, in the same sense that other nonprescription agents such as aspirin and ibuprofen are "drugs."

Add Some Spice to Your Life

To obtain turmeric and the beneficial natural curcuminoids it contains, you could eat curry every day, or you could take generous, scientifically validated amounts of the ancient Ayurvedic agent turmeric, in addition to the potent natural anti-inflammatory agent Boswellia serrata, another good NSAID. Commonly known as frankincense and also used in Ayurvedic medicine for many centuries, Boswellia has been shown in both animal and human studies to help with health problems such as arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, and bronchial asthma.

Together, Curcuma and Boswellia provide health benefits that, as we have seen, may include support for mental as well as physical function. They bring an honored healing tradition into modern times and add, literally, a bit of spice to your life.

 

Whats the difference between using curdling agent {lemon juice} and Vegetarian Rennet to make home made cheese? Using Milk.

Rennet is a culture that converts curds into cheese.

Lemon juice is just a curdling agent that does not culture the curd into cheeses.

Microbial rennet is used more often in industrial cheese making in North America today because it is less expensive than animal rennet, whereas cheese from Europe is more likely to be made from animal rennet due to tradition.

So, most commercial cheeses you buy in the store that are made in the USA are not made with animal rennet.

It is most often made with microbial rennet.

It is much cheaper for cheese makers to make microbial rennet than to use the more expensive animal rennet.

Lila literally means pastime. If the concept of time is only relevant in material consciousness, then why is it used to describe the nature of the spiritual world?

Lets look at the Sanskrit dictionary and see what "lila" means.

<table cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1</td> <td valign="top"> lIlA</td> <td valign="top">f. (derivation doubtful) play , sport , diversion , amusement , pastime MBh. Ka1v. &c. ; mere sport or play , child's play , ease or facility in doing anything ib. ; mere appearance , semblance , pretence , disguise , sham Ka1v. Katha1s. Pur. (ibc. sportively , easily , in sport , as a mere joke [903,3] ; also = %{lIlayA} ind. for mere diversion , feignedly) ; grace , charm , beauty , elegance , lovelniess Ka1lid. Katha1s. Ra1jat. ; (in rhet.) a maiden's playful imitation of her lover , Dalar. Sa1h. Prata1p. ; a kind of metre (4 times $) Col. ; N. of a Yogini HParis3.</td></tr></tbody></table>

Traditionally, in Sanskrit language "lila" means "play" or "sport" or "amusement".

Why Srila Prabhupada used it in terms of "pastime" is somewhat of a mystery because of all the emphasis on the fact that the lila of Krishna is beyond time and devoid of the time factor.

I prefer the meanings of "play" or "sport" or "amusement" over the translation as "pastime" which can be confusing for those who think of Krishna lila as devoid of any time factor.

In fact, even the title of this thread shows that Sarva-gattah (who seems to be linked with Hari Sauri das somehow) leaves out PRESENT time in the question as he has done before on this subject because Sarva in fact is under the misconception that there is PRESENT time ONLY in the spiritual world.

How it is possible to understand that in the spiritual world there is no past-future?

As he has done before on this subject, Sarva has excluded PRESENT time as an element of the time factor that is missing in the spiritual world.

He in fact thinks that in the spiritual world there is only PRESENT time, when in fact even PRESENT time does not exist in the spiritual world.