Sonic Yogi

See, Mayavada says God does not need an anus. God does not need a genital. God does not need eyes or hands or feet.

God in fact does not need a body because God is just clean white transcendental light.

So, if we take the anus away from God, we are well on our way to taking away his form and becoming Mayavadi.

Krishna's passing stool is lila. He does not HAVE to pass stool. It is all a part of his lila.

 

Here is one for you. Did baby Krishna pass stool? Does baby Krishna pass stool in Goloka?

 

 

 

Krishna Book ch.8

Sometimes being unable to steal our butter and yogurt, out of anger They pass urine on the clean floor and sometimes spit on it.

Well, Krishna's body is always spiritual.

If he could pee on the clean floors of the gopi's houses in Gokula, then the ability to pee is an eternal aspect of the spiritual body of Krishna.

I asked that same question you are asking many years ago when I was in ISKCON during the time of Srila Prabhupada and the Gobrother I asked told me "Prabhupada said" that passing stool in the spiritual world is also done as part of devotional service and the stool in the spiritual world comes out like flowers and smells very sweet and fragrant.

Are you implying that Krishna's body in Goloka does not have an anus?

He has a genital but not an anus?

Man is created in the image of God.

If man has an anus it is because God has an anus.

If the anus is not used for passing stool, then it wouldn't be an anus.

Do they not eat in the spiritual world.

Sure, not because they have to but because it is blissfull.

Do they pass stool in the spiritual world?

Sure, not because they have to but because it is spiritually blissfull.

The material world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world.

Sure, they pass stool there, but it is not obnoxious and disgusting refuse.

It is something that is done as an offering to Krishna.

Everything in the spiritual world is devotional service.

Passing stool is aslo devotional service.

But, then again that is why Prabhupada didn't talk much about these things because our tiny pea brains have too much trouble trying to grasp these concepts.

Do the cows in Goloka not pass stool?

I certainly hope so, because I love the smell of a nice barnyard covered in cow manure.

In Goloka, the cow manure smells so wonderful that it simply enthralls the devotees.

Even if Srila Prabhupada did say:

"some millions of years ago we came down from Vaikuntha"

that does not mean that the living entity fell from one of the loving relationships with Krishna.

As Srila Prabhupada says in CC Adi 5.51 purport >

The impersonal glowing effulgence known as impersonal Brahman is the outer space of the Vaikuṇṭha planets in the spiritual sky.

So, the brahmajyoti is in Vaikuntha.

Falling from the brahmajyoti is tantamount to falling from Vaikuntha in the sense that the brahmajyoti is the outer space of the Vaikuntha planets.

Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

Another important point here is that the way this verse is being translated in this so-called quote does not correspond to the way it is translated in the book.

In CC, where that verse comes from it does not say that the living entity is originally "nitya-siddha".

This, in fact, is a mistranslation of this verse.

The verse means:

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 22.107

 

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema 'sādhya' kabhu naya

 

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

SYNONYMS

 

nitya-siddha — eternally established; kṛṣṇa-prema — love of Kṛṣṇa; sādhya — to be gained; kabhu — at any time; naya — not; śravaṇa-ādi — by hearing, etc.; śuddha — purified; citte — in the heart; karaye udaya — awakens.

 

TRANSLATION

 

"Pure love for Kṛṣṇa is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens.

It means that pure love for Krsna is an eternal propensity of the jiva.

It means that loving Krsna is eternally the potential capacity of the jiva.

The verse does not say what Sarva Gattah is claiming it means by his consistent abuse of that quote out of context and out of proper translation.

"Nitya-siddha" as used in the verse in reference simply means that the jiva soul has an eternal capacity to awaken his dormant love for Krsna.

The verse itself does not mean that originally all jivas are nitya siddhas.

The "nitya-siddha" in the verse in question is regarding the nature of Krishna prema as being inherent in the jiva soul.

It in no way is saying that the conditioned souls were originally nitya-siddhas.

Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

Srila Bhaktsiddhanta Saraswati Thakur explains this a little more definitively.

In the second chapter of his book "Brahmana and Vaisnava" entitled Harijana-khanda (page 86 in ISKCON edition from 1999), Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura states:

 

 

 

 

"Who are the Harijanas, or Vaisnavas, and what makes them different from the nondevotees? I am quoting various evidence from the scriptures and sentiments of devotees in this Hari-jana-khanda to answer these questions.

"Before acquiring material designations, the living entity is supremely pure. EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOT ENGAGED IN SERVING THE SUPREME LORD [emphasis mine], he remains situated in the neutral position of santa-rasa due to his marginal nature. Though the living entity born from the marginal potency does not at that time exhibit a taste for serving the Lord due to a LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF SELF REALIZATION, his direct propensity of serving the Supreme Lord nevertheless remains within him in a dormant state. Though the indirect propensity of material enjoyment, which is contrary to the service of the Lord, is not found in him at that time, indifference to the service of Hari and the seed of material enjoyment, which follows that state of indifference, are nevertheless present within him.

"The living entity, who belongs to the marginal potency, cannot remain indifferent forever by subduing both devotional and nondevotional propensities. He therefore contemplates unconstitutional activities from his marginal position. As a sleeping person dreams that he is active in the physical world without actually being involved in activities, when the dormant indifferent living entity of the marginal potency exhibits even a little apathy to the service of the Supreme Lord and situates himself in a neutral, unchanging condition for even a little time, he is infected by impersonalism. That is why the conditioned soul desires to merge in the impersonal Brahman, thus exhibiting his mind's fickle nature. But due to neglecting the eternal service of the Lord and thereby developing the quality of aversion to the Lord, he cannot remain fixed in that position. In this way aversion to the Lord breaks his concentration of mind and establishes him as the master of this world of enjoyment.

"Maya, the external energy of the Supreme Lord, then induces the marginal living entity to enjoy this world through her covering and throwing potencies and thus shows the living entity the reality of being averse to the Lord's service.

"At that time the living entity considers himself the king of enjoyers, and being situated in the mode passion he takes the position of Brahma and creates progeny. The living entities who are born from Brahma, the grandfather of everyone, expand themselves in families of Aryans and brahmanas. In this world of duality, however, living entities who are covered and thrown under the control of the external energy naturally become envious. This enviousness further creates pride, illusion, greed, anger, and lust and induces the living entities to dance frantically in aversion to the Lord. At that time they forget both that they were born from Grandfather Brahma and the Lord's instructions in the Vedas.

"And on the platform of progress, if a living entity cultivates transcendental sound vibration and revives the process of remembering the lotus feet of Sri Krsna, he then achieves scientific spiritual knowledge. By this process, all anarthas are destroyed and he becomes situated in a supremely auspicious position.

"The mood that arises when one is manipulating his senses is called vilasa, or enjoyment. The meaning of vairagya, or renunciation, is to become averse to the accumulation of sensual knowledge. The conditioned souls who are overwhelmed by the illusory energy of Hari become temporary enjoyers of this world under the control of Maya's covering and throwing potencies. But if such persons fortunately meet devotees who are constantly remembering Krsna, then they can give up insignificant material enjoyment and receive the opportunity to attain transcendental knowledge.

"Although due to forgetfulness of Krsna the perverted movement of the senses is considered temporary and adverse, when they are properly employed in eternal subjects their disease of transience is destroyed and they give up the desire to embrace such transient objects. Then that person appreciates the following verse from the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, which is the mercy of Sri Sanatana and compiled by Srila Gopala Bhatta, the disciple of Tridandipada Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati, who was a servant of Sri Gauranga and born in an Andhra brahmana family.

 

 

grhita-visnu diksako

visnu-puja-paro narah

vaisnavo 'bhihito 'bhijnair

itaro 'smad avaisnavah

 

"One who is initiated into Sri Visnu's mantras and who is devoted to worshiping Lord Visnu is called a Vaisnava by those who are learned. One who is devoid of these practices in not a Vaisnava."

"Although the eternal living entity is constitutionally favorably inclined towards the Supreme Lord, due to his indifference towards the eternal service of the Lord he is eligible for being controlled by Maya. When one tries to measure material objects with his sensual knowledge, he simply increases his enjoying propensity day after day. That he is eligible for achieving transcendental knowledge - this ancient memory he also often forgets. As a result of being covered and thrown and considering himself the enjoyer of this world, such a person has no power to discriminate between good and bad, rather he considers temporary and unreal subjects as permanent and favorable for his enjoyment."

The jiva is the eternal servant of Krsna because he "is constitutionally favorably inclined towards the Supreme Lord", but before falling down he serves Him only in santa-rasa which in fact is not direct pure devotional service. As for the higher rasas, Srila Prabhupada says that the pure devotee can never forget Krsna and we cannot argue with that.

 

The shastric siddhanta has always been that Maha-Vishnu glances at prakriti and "impregnates" Prakriti with unlimited jiva souls.

It doesn't say that Maha-Vishna creates the world and then it gradually fills up with jivas falling from Vaikuntha or Krsnaloka.

The theory of emanations is quite well explained in the Vedic shastra.

Sparks of Krsna's energy are eternal.

At some point in eternal time that spark is impregnated into the material energy by Lord Vishnu.

The origin of the soul is no mystery.

It is well explained in shastra that Maha-Vishnu impregnates the "seeds" of the living entities into the womb of Maya.

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 19.139

 

keśāgra-śateka-bhāga punaḥ śatāḿśa kari

 

tāra sama sūkṣma jīvera 'svarūpa' vicāri

 

SYNONYMS

 

keśa-agra — from the tip of a hair; śata-eka — one hundred; bhāga — divisions; punaḥ — again; śata-aḿśa — one hundred divisions; kari — making; tāra sama — equal to that; sūkṣma — very fine; jīvera — of the living entity; svarūpa — the actual form; vicāri — I consider.

 

TRANSLATION

 

"The length and breadth of the living entity is described as one ten-thousandth part of the tip of a hair. This is the original subtle nature of the living entity.

Read the TEXT......"JIVERA SVARUP" The svarupa of the jiva is to be a spiritual spark.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught Srila Rupa Goswami as it says in this verse.

He said the ORIGINAL subtle nature of the living entity is as a spirit spark 1/10,000th the tip of a hair.

If Mahaprabhu's teachings aren't good enough for Sarva gattah, then let him keep living in some old conversations between Srila Prabhupada and some disciples that were confused and clearly showing that they hadn't absorbed the shastric siddhanta.

A couple of statements by Srila Prabhupada in some informal conversations with some neophyte disciples can never over-ride the shastric siddhanta and the teachings of Mahaprabhu.

Prabhupada said "books are the basis".

He never said "the recordings of my talks with some neophyte disciples is the basis of the Hare Krsna philosophy".

We need to base our understanding on the books, not on some statements made by Srila Prabhupada to some neophytes who were struggling with trying to grasp the Gaudiya siddhanta.

Prabhupada made many compromises in his preaching work.

Sometimes he even compromised the strict siddhanta in talks with neophytes to encourage them with concepts what their pea brains could accept.

These letters and informal talks with Srila Prabhupada are full of compromises based on the limited abilities of the audience.

You can't teach Algebra to a student has can't even grasp remedial Math.

So, tell them some tales, fables and stories to get them over the obstacles until their intelligence is purified enough to understand higher knowledge.

As far as I know, I am the first thinker connected to the Hare Krishna movement to propose such concepts as I have mentioned above.

I don't expect the whole movement to jump on my wagon of radical, revolutionary thinking.

I would be surprised if anyone did.

But, the proposal that life in the spiritual world is one eternal day with no conception of days and nights doesn't really sound all that perfect to me.

Real perfection to me would be spiritual days and nights and spiritual Moons and spiritual Moolight to accommodate the lila of Krishna.

Just imagine what a Moonlit night on Krishnaloka must be like?

After a hard day tending the cows, milking the cows and cooking nice offerings to Krishna, then comes the beautiful Moonlit nights of dancing on the banks of the Yamuna and skinny-dipping in Radha-kunda at night.

That sounds better to me than ONE LONG ETERNAL day.

Śrī Brahma-saḿhitā 5.2

 

sahasra-patra-kamalaḿ

 

gokulākhyaḿ mahat padam

 

tat-karṇikāraḿ tad-dhāma

 

tad-anantāḿśa-sambhavam

 

SYNONYMS

 

sahasra-patra — possessing a thousand petals; kamalam — a lotus; gokula-ākhyam — known as Gokula; mahat padam — the superexcellent station; tat — of that (lotus); karṇikāram — the whorl; tat — of Him (Kṛṣṇa); dhāma — the abode; tat — that (Gokula); ananta — of His infinitary aspect, Balarāma; aḿśa — from a part; sambhavam — produced.

 

TRANSLATION

 

[The spiritual place of transcendental pastimes of Kṛṣṇa is portrayed in the second verse.] The superexcellent station of Kṛṣṇa, which is known as Gokula, has thousands of petals and a corolla like that of a lotus sprouted from a part of His infinitary aspect, the whorl of the leaves being the actual abode of Kṛṣṇa.

 

PURPORT

 

Gokula, like Goloka, is not a created mundane plane — unbounded character forms the display of His unlimited potency and His propagating manifestation. Baladeva is the mainstay of that energy. The transcendental entity of Baladeva has two aspects viz., infinite spiritual manifestation and infinite accommodating space for insentient gross things. The uniquadrantal delineation of material universe will be dealt with in the proper place. The triquadrantal extensions of the transcendental infinitary field of the almighty, unlamenting, nonperishing and nonapprehending unlimited situations of halo which are fully spiritual majestic foliation. This very majestical extension portrays the manifested lofty rich feature of the vaster unlimited region or greater atmosphere which has its resplendent location wholly beyond the realm of mundane nature, on the further shore of Virajā surrounded by the halo of Brahman or indistinguishable entity. This majestical power of unlimited spirit emanates on the upper portion of the luminous sphere into the most charming Gokula or eternally existing Goloka, exceedingly beautified by the assorted display of effulgence. Some designate this region as the abode of the Supreme Nārāyaṇa, or the original fountainhead. Hence Gokula, which is identical with Goloka, is the supreme plane. The same sphere shines as Goloka and Gokula respectively by its upper or transcendental and lower or mundane situation.

 

Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī has told us as follows in his Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta which embodies the final essence of all the books of instructions: "He displays His pastimes here in this land as He is used to do in Goloka. The difference between the two planes lies only in their locations as high and low; that is, in other words, Kṛṣṇa plays exactly the same part in Goloka as He exhibits on the mundane plane of Gokula. There is practically no difference between Gokula and Goloka save that this what exists in the shape of Goloka in the upper region is the same as Gokula on the mundane plane when Kṛṣṇa showed His various activity there. Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī has also inculcated the same in the Bhagavat-sandarbha of his 'Six Treatises.' " To ascertain the plane of Goloka — Vṛndāvana is the eternal abode of Kṛṣṇa and Goloka and Vṛndāvana are identically one, and though both are identical, yet Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy has made Goloka the acme of this spiritual kingdom and Gokula of Mathurā province forming a part of the mundane plane which is also a manifestation of triquadrantal vibhūti (conducting majesty). Poor human understanding cannot possibly make out how the extensive triquadrantal, which is beyond human comprehension, can be accommodated in the limited nether material universe of a uniquadrantal disclosure. Gokula is a spiritual plane, hence his condescended position in the region of material space, time, etc., is in no way restricted but unlimitedly manifested with his full boundless propriety. But conditioned souls are apt to assert a material conception in regard to Gokula by their miserable senses so as to bring him below the level of their intellect. Though the eye of an observer is impeded by a cloud when gazing at the sun and though the tiny cloud can never really cover the sun, still the clouded vision apparently observes the sun as covered by the cloud. In just the same way the conditioned souls with their obscured intelligence, senses and decisions, accept Gokula as a piece of measurable land. We can see Gokula from Goloka which is eternal. This is also a mystery. The attainment of final beatitude is the success in attaining one's eternal self. The success in identifying the true self is finally achieved when the screen of gross and subtle coils of conditioned souls is removed by the sweet will of Kṛṣṇa. However, the idea of Goloka is seen to differ from Gokula till the success in unalloyed devotion is achieved. The transcendental plane of infinite spiritual manifestation having thousands of petals and corolla like those of the lotus, is Gokula, the eternal abode of Kṛṣṇa.

Therefore, Gokula Vrindavan that Krishna manifested on Earth where there were days and nights, dancing in the Moonlight and getting up in the morning to go tend the cows is non-different than Krsnaloka or Goloka.

The material form of time is a temporary, perverted reflection of spiritual time and the joyous eternal pastimes of the Lord in Krsnaloka.

If Krsna can't dance with the gopis in the Moonlight on Krishnaloka, then that would be very sad.

I am sure the Moonlight on Krsnaloka is much more beautiful and glorious than the Moonlight we know on Earth.

It would be such a loss if Radha and Krishna couldn't take a dip in Syama kunda or Radha kunda in the warm, balmy, breezy Moonlit nights.

The material world has Moonlight that is a perverted reflection of the Moonlight of the spiritual world.

The spiritual world is not one long eternal day.

There is also the most beautiful and sweet Moonlit nights millions of times more wonderful than any beautiful night on the beach in the Moonlight here in the material world.

For anyone that has ever sat on the beach in Hawaii on a Moonlit night and felt the balmy breezes and smelled the Plumeria trees, they can only imagine how much more wonderful such Moonlit nights in Vrindavan on the infinite Yamuna of crystal clear nectar water must be.

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 14.27

 

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham

 

amṛtasyāvyayasya ca

 

śāśvatasya ca dharmasya

 

sukhasyaikāntikasya ca

 

SYNONYMS

 

brahmaṇaḥ — of the impersonal brahmajyoti; hi — certainly; pratiṣṭhā — the rest; aham — I am; amṛtasya — of the immortal; avyayasya — of the imperishable; ca — also; śāśvatasya — of the eternal; ca — and; dharmasya — of the constitutional position; sukhasya — of happiness; aikāntikasya — ultimate; ca — also.

 

TRANSLATION

 

And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.

Lord Krishna teaches in Bhagavad-gita that the constitutional position of ultimate happiness is the brahmajyoti.

We hear lots of talk about the constitutional position of the soul, but here Lord Krishna explains that as the brahmajyoti.

The Vedic text Vayaviya Tantra says that Naimisaranya would be the center or "hub" of the universe.

In the Vayaviya Tantra, it is said that Brahma, the engineer of this particular universe, contemplated a great wheel which could enclose the universe. The hub of this great circle was fixed at a particular place known as Naimisaranya.

Naimisaranya is on the Earth

SB 1.1.4 purport,

The way of personalizing all things is much deeper ingrained in Sarasvata lineage than the argument suggesting we are all spark. The Original nature is deeply personal according to Gaudiya Tattva. And the spark is sheltered by Hladhini manifesting form for lila.

Yes, even the sparks of spiritual light are persons in that way of thinking.

The river is a person, the tree is a person and every molecule of spiritual light is a person.

But, they all don't have two arms and two legs.

Sarva gattah's relentless harping on this point for the last several years is more about fighting the hackneyed old debate between some ISKCON devotees and the "Gaudiya Math".

None of the Gaudiya Matha gurus including Srila Saraswati Goswami ever preached such a thing as Sarva gattah is trying accuse Srila Prabhupada of preaching.

So, it's his one man army fighting his battle with the Gaudiya Matha.

Even many of the ISKCON sannyasis and gurus disagree with Sarva Gattah.

He doesn't represent ISKCON.

He represents himself.

He certainly doesn't represent Srila Prabhupada.

Anyone who refused to read the books of Srila Prabhupada and instead formulates a new siddhanta from two or three statements of Srila Prabhuapda, certainly has no fight to claim to represent Srila Prabhupada.

BG 2.17 purport:

Therefore, the individual particle of spirit soul is a spiritual atom smaller than the material atoms, and such atoms are innumerable. This very small spiritual spark is the basic principle of the material body, and the influence of such a spiritual spark is spread all over the body as the influence of the active principle of some medicine spreads throughout the body.

This soul is described as one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair point in size. The Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (5.9) confirms this:

bālāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatadhā kalpitasya ca

bhāgo jīvaḥ vijñeyaḥ

sa cānantyāya kalpate

"When the upper point of a hair is divided into one hundred parts and again each of such parts is further divided into one hundred parts, each such part is the measurement of the dimension of the spirit soul." Similarly the same version is stated:

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya

śatāḿśaḥ sādṛśātmakaḥ

jīvaḥ sūkṣma-svarūpo 'yaḿ

sańkhyātīto hi cit-kaṇaḥ

[Cc. Madya 19.140]

"There are innumerable particles of spiritual atoms, which are measured as one ten-thousandth of the upper portion of the hair."

BG 2.17 purport:

Such atomic particles of the spirit whole are compared to the sunshine molecules. In the sunshine there are innumerable radiant molecules. Similarly, the fragmental parts of the Supreme Lord are atomic sparks of the rays of the Supreme Lord, called by the name prabha or superior energy.

A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in any circumstance. He will not give up his shelter at the lotus feet of the Lord for a single moment-indeed, not for half a moment-even in exchange of the benediction of ruling and enjoying the opulence of the entire universe. (Bhag. 11.2.53, text)

The living entities [jivas] are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned. Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krsna consciousness, and they render transcendental loving service at the feet of Lord Krsna. They are to be considered eternal associates of Krsna, and they are eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 22.10-11, text)

In the spiritual sky there are spiritual planets known as Vaikunthas, which are the residence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees) (Bhag. 3.15.13, text.)

. . . and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text)

Srila Vrndavana dasa Thakura:

Therefore there is no birth or death for the Vaisnavas [the eternal associates]. They descend to the material world with the Lord and return to His abode with Him. The Vaisnava is never bound by karma and thus does not take birth in the material world. (Caitanya-Bhagavata Antya-lila 10.172)

Srila Rupa Gosvami:

Even the associates of the Lord are described as having eternal forms. (Laghu-bhag. 1.143)

The samprapta-siddhas are those who have become perfect by performing bhakti and nitya-siddhas are those who have never been conditioned and thus are eternally siddhas. (Brs. 2.1.281, text)

The nitya-siddha devotees love Krsna millions of times more than their own selves. They all have eternal, blissful qualities just like Lord Krsna. (Brs. 2.1.290, text)

Srila Jiva Gosvami:

The third of ten characteristics of Vaikuntha listed by Srila Jiva Gosvami in Bhagavat-sandarbha, text 61, is that anyone who has attained Vaikuntha does not fall. Srila Jiva Gosvami also provides numerous examples and quotes as proof of this fact.

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana:

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana writes in Govinda-bhasya, "One cannot even imagine that the Supreme Lord Hari would ever desire that the liberated souls fall down, nor would the liberated souls ever desire to leave the Lord." He further states that this is because of their extreme mutual love and cites four verses as evidence (Bg. 7.17, Bhag. 9.4.68, 9.4.65 and 2.8.6).

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura:

Mahavisnu, the incarnation of Sankarsana, establishing Himself in the jiva-sakti as Paramatma, reveals the jiva-souls of the mundane world. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya. Till by dint of God's grace they get shelter under the Hladini (bliss-giving) element of the cit-sakti, they are liable to be overcome by maya. As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-sakti that begets the jivas, and not the cit-sakti. (Jaiva-Dharma, p. 216)

. . . Gradually they reach the transcendental abode of the Lord and attain the exact same status as His eternal associates. (Jaiva Dharma, p. 229)

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura:

Jivas are of two kinds. 1) Nitya-mukta (eternally free) 2) Nitya-baddha (eternally enslaved). Free jivas are never enslaved. They are ever serving the Supreme God. (Vaisnavism Real and Apparent, Lecture, Bhaktisiddanta S T )

The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krsna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krsna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their first opportunity to associate with Krsna personally and directly. (Krsna Book, Ch. 28, 6th paragraph)

There are two kinds of souls: conditioned and liberated, nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta. Just like we are, similarly, there are living entities in the spiritual sky also, but they are liberated. They never become conditioned. We are conditioned. We do not know from when, but we are conditioned. So jiva yara vasi. In this material world, we conditioned, we are residents. But in the spiritual world the residents are all liberated souls. Jagal-laksmi rakhi' rahe yahan maya dasi. (670105CC.NY)

They live in the spiritual world, Vaikuntha planets. Nitya-mukta. Nitya-mukta means eternally liberated. They never come down in this material world.(Bhag. Lecture, June 20, 1973, Mayapura)

The following quotes clearly distinguish that the nitya-baddhas can be liberated and that the nitya-siddhas are never enslaved in the material world even when they come here.

The nitya-muktas are in Vaikuntha jagat, the spiritual world and they never fall into the material world. Those in the material world are conditioned souls, nitya-baddha. The nitya-baddhas can become liberated by controlling the mind because the cause of conditioned life is the mind. (Bhag. 5.11.12, purp.)

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has given a great amount of evidence from the Vedic literatures proving that the humanlike form of the Personality of Godhead and His holy name, abode, paraphernalia and associates are all eternal, spiritual manifestations without any tinge of material contamination. (Bhag. 11.30.5, purport by disciples of A. C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada)

There are two kinds of living entities. Nitya-baddha means ever-conditioned. Ever-conditioned means those who are in this material world; they do not know when they came in touch with this material world. Neither do they know when they will be liberated. They are called nitya-baddha, ever-conditioned. And similarly, there are nitya-siddhas. Nitya-siddhas means they never come in contact with this material world, and even if they come here for some business, they do not forget their position. That is nitya-siddha. Try to understand. There are two kinds of living entities: nitya-siddha, nitya-baddha. Nitya-baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddhas.

Anyone who is in this material world, nitya-baddha. And nitya-siddhas, they never come in contact with this material world, and even they come for some business under the order of the Supreme Lord, they do not touch these material qualities. They remain always transcendental. As Krsna remains always transcendental, even though He is in this material world, similarly, Krsna's nitya-siddha associates, they are also transcendental. They never touch this material world. (Bg. Lecture, July 14, 1973, London)

Those who are in the spiritual world, they are nitya-siddha. Nitya-mukta. Nitya-mukta means they never come in this material world. Just like Krsna is nitya-muktya suddha. Similarly the associates of Krsna who come with Him . . . Just like the gopis or the cowherd boys . . . they are all nitya-siddha, nitya-muktya . . . They are in the spiritual form, ananda-cinmaya-rasa, enjoying always spiritual bliss in the association of Krsna. (Bhag. June 19, 1972, Los Angeles)

. . . you should know that the great liberated souls and incarnations who appear from time to time in this material world are not actually coming back, because they are never subject to material contamination or the laws of material nature. (Ltr Srila Prabhupada~Vrndavanesvari, 6 June 1969)

We also mention here that, in regards to the theory that the nitya-muktas fall from the spiritual world and the baddha-mukta (bound who become liberated) do not fall, there is no evidence in sastra supporting or even mentioning this theory, nor do sanskrit terms exist for the mukta-baddha (liberated who become bound). Absolutely no distinction is made in the writings of our acaryas or in sastra between different classes of living entities in the spiritual world in reference to being eligible to fall or not; indeed no direct sastric or acarya reference states that any of them fall down. Neither is there any explicit mention in scripture of fallen nitya-muktas. The theory that the associates of the Lord in the spiritual world fall down implies that nitya-muktas (eternally liberated residents of Vaikuntha) are inferior to baddha-muktas (those bound in the material world who become liberated). This theory insinuates that nitya-muktas must come to the material world to become really fall-proof--to get a better education--i.e., one cannot be a gentleman unless he first visits a brothel. It also implies that bhaya-bhakti, devotion produced by fear or suffering, is superior to prema-bhakti, for only bhaya-bhakti gives complete protection to a devotee, that he will never fall down.

Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada:

The living entities are parts and parcels of the Lord. They are of two varieties, namely nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. The nitya-muktas are eternally liberated souls, and they are eternally engaged in the reciprocation of transcendental loving service with the Lord in His eternal abode beyond the manifested mundane creations. (Bhag.1.10.22, purp.)

. . . the planets in the spiritual sky . . . are in fact transcendental to the material modes . . . The conception of spiritual bliss (Brahmananda) is fully present in those planets . . . and free from all kinds of inebriates experienced in the material world . . . The inhabitants of those planets are liberated from birth, death, old age and diseases and have full knowledge of everything; they are all godly and free from all sorts of material hankerings. They have nothing to do there except to render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord . . . The Lord and His eternal servitors in the transcendental kingdom all have eternal forms which are auspicious, infallible, spiritual and eternally youthful. In the words, there is no birth, death, old age and disease. That eternal land is full of transcendental enjoyment and full of beauty and bliss. This very fact is also corroborated in this verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the transcendental nature is described as amrta. As described in the Vedas, utamrtatvasyesanah: the Supreme Lord is the Lord of immortality, or in other words, the Lord is immortal, and because He is the Lord of immortality He can award immortality to His devotees. In the Bhagavad-gita (8.16) the Lord also assures that whoever may go to His abode of immortality shall never return to this mortal land of threefold miseries . . . In the material world there is always anxiety or fearfulness in the hearts of all living entities, but the Lord, being Himself the supreme fearless, also awards the same quality of fearlessness to His pure devotees. Mundane existence is itself a kind of fear because in all mundane bodies the effects of birth, death, old age and disease always keep a living being compact in fear. In the mundane world, there is always the influence of time, which changes things from one stage to another, and the living entity originally being avikara, or unchangeable, suffers a great deal on account of changes due to the influence of time.

The changing effects of eternal time are conspicuously absent in the immortal kingdom of God, which should therefore be understood to have no influence of time and therefore no fear whatsoever. (Bhag.2.6.18, purp.)

The nitya-siddha devotees never fall down to the region of the material atmosphere even though they sometimes come into the material plane to execute the mission of the Lord. (Bhag. 3.3.26, purp.)

A pure living entity in his original spiritual existence is fully conscious of his constitutional position as an eternal servitor of the Lord. All souls who are situated in such pure consciousness are liberated, and therefore they eternally live in bliss and knowledge in the various Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual sky. When the material creation is manifested, it is not meant for them. The eternally liberated souls are called nitya-muktas, and they have nothing to do with the material creation. The material creation is meant for rebellious souls who are not prepared to accept subordination under the Supreme Lord. (Bhag. 3.5.29, purp.)

. . . a devotee in the transcendental abode of the Lord never falls. (Bhag. 3.15.48, purp.)

After finishing their mock fighting, both the devotee and the Lord are again associated in the spiritual planets. That is very explicitly explained here. The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)

The inhabitants of Vaikuntha never return to the material world. (Bhag. 3.16.27, purp.)

A devotee once accepted by the Lord, can never fall down. That is the conclusion of this incident. [Jaya and Vijaya] (Bhag. 3.16.29, purp.)

The word kuta-stha, meaning "without change," is also very significant. There are two kinds of living entities-nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. A nitya-mukta never forgets his position as the eternal servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One who does not forget this position and knows that he is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord is nitya-mukta. Such a nitya-mukta living entity represents the Supersoul as His expansion. As stated in the Vedas, nityo nityanam. Thus the nitya-mukta living entity knows that he is an expansion of the supreme nitya, or the eternal Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Bhag. 4.16.19, purp.)

Some living entities are conditioned, and others are eternally free. The eternally free living entities are called nitya-mukta, for they never come in contact with the material energy. However, some living entities are conditioned in this material world, and thus they think themselves separated from the Supreme Lord. (Bhag. 4.24.61, purp.)

All the residents of Vaikunthaloka know perfectly well that their master is Narayana, or Krsna, and that they are all His servants. They are all self-realized souls who are nitya-mukta, everlastingly liberated. Although they could conceivably declare themselves Narayana or Visnu, they never do so; they always remain Krsna conscious and serve the Lord faithfully. Such is the atmosphere of Vaikunthaloka. (Bhag. 6.1.34-6, purp.)

From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord. The Lord comes to this material world through the agency of His internal potency, and similarly, when a devotee or associate of the Lord descends to this material world, he does so through the action of the spiritual energy. Any pastime conducted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead is an arrangement by yoga-maya, not maha-maya. Therefore it is to understood that when Jaya and Vijaya descended to this material world, they came because there was something to be done for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.)

One who is not materially infected and who does not forget Krsna as his master is called nitya-mukta. In other words, one who is eternally liberated from material contamination is called nitya-mukta. From time immemorial the nitya-mukta living entity has always been a devotee of Krsna, and his only attempt has been to serve Krsna. Thus he never forgets his eternal servitorship to Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.)

Srila Prabhupada confirms his agreement with Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

An explanation of verses 8 through 15 is given by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in his Amrta-pravaha-bhasya . . . The living entities are divided into two categories.the eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. Those who are ever-liberated never come in contact with maya, the external energy. The ever-conditioned are always under the clutches of the external energy . . . The nitya-baddhas are always conditioned by the external energy, and the nitya-muktas never come in contact with the external energy. Sometimes an ever-liberated personal associate of the Supreme Personality of Godhead descends into this universe just as the Lord descends. Although working for the liberation of conditioned souls, the messenger of the Supreme Lord remains untouched by the material energy. Generally ever-liberated personalities live in the spiritual world as associates of Lord Krsna, and they are known as krsna-parsada, associates of the Lord. Their only business is enjoying Lord Krsna's company, and even though such eternally liberated persons come within this material world to serve the Lord's purpose, they enjoy Lord Krsna's company without stoppage . . . The ever-conditioned soul, provoked by lusty desires to enjoy the material world, is subjected to transmigrate from one body to another . . . If by chance he meets a saintly person who works on Krsna's behalf to deliver conditioned souls, and if he agrees to abide by his order, he can gradually approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna. (Cc Madhya-lila 22.14-15, purp.)

The third-class person in Krsna consciousness may fall down, but when one is in the second class he does not fall down, and for the first-class person in Krsna consciousness there is no chance of falling down. (Bg. 9.3, purport)

The pure devotee has no actual chance to fall down, because the Supreme Godhead personally takes care of His pure devotees. (Bg. 9.34, purport)

Eternally liberated living entities never come into contact with material nature . . . they are counted among the associates of Krsna. (Teachings of Lord Caitanya, p. 108)

. . .the nitya-siddhas are eternally Krsna conscious without any forgetfulness . . . you should not consider that My associates are ever separated from Me . . . they are almost as powerful as I am . . . they are very, very dear to Me, as I am very, very dear to them. (Nectar of Devotion, p. 205)

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 2.18

antavanta ime dehā

nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ

anāśino 'prameyasya

tasmād yudhyasva bhārata

SYNONYMS

anta-vantaḥ — perishable; ime — all these; dehāḥ — material bodies; nityasya — eternal in existence; uktāḥ — are said; śarīriṇaḥ — of the embodied soul; anāśinaḥ — never to be destroyed; aprameyasya — immeasurable; tasmāt — therefore; yudhyasva — fight; bhārata — O descendant of Bharata.

TRANSLATION

The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.

PURPORT

The material body is perishable by nature. It may perish immediately, or it may do so after a hundred years. It is a question of time only. There is no chance of maintaining it indefinitely. But the spirit soul is so minute that it cannot even be seen by an enemy, to say nothing of being killed. As mentioned in the previous verse, it is so small that no one can have any idea how to measure its dimension. So from both viewpoints there is no cause of lamentation, because the living entity as he is cannot be killed nor can the material body be saved for any length of time or permanently protected. The minute particle of the whole spirit acquires this material body according to his work, and therefore observance of religious principles should be utilized. In the Vedānta-sūtras the living entity is qualified as light because he is part and parcel of the supreme light. As sunlight maintains the entire universe, so the light of the soul maintains this material body. As soon as the spirit soul is out of this material body, the body begins to decompose; therefore it is the spirit soul which maintains this body. The body itself is unimportant. Arjuna was advised to fight and not sacrifice the cause of religion for material, bodily considerations.

Śrī Īśopaniṣad 7

yasmin sarvāṇi bhūtāny

ātmaivābhūd vijānataḥ

tatra ko mohaḥ kaḥ śoka

ekatvam anupaśyataḥ

SYNONYMS

yasmin — in the situation; sarvāṇi — all; bhūtāni — living entities; ātmā — the cit-kaṇa, or spiritual spark; eva — only; abhūt — exist as; vijānataḥ — of one who knows; tatra — therein; kaḥ — what; mohaḥ — illusion; kaḥ — what; śokaḥ — anxiety; ekatvam — oneness in quality; anupaśyataḥ — of one who sees through authority, or one who sees constantly like that.

TRANSLATION

One who always sees all living entities as spiritual sparks, in quality one with the Lord, becomes a true knower of things. What, then, can be illusion or anxiety for him?

 

I guess it says here than if we see the soul as a spiritual spark we won't be in all the illusion or anxiety that Sarva gattah is in?

Chapter 2. Contents of the Gita Summarized

 

TEXT 17

avinasi tu tad viddhi

yena sarvam idam tatam

vinasam avyayasyasya

na kascit kartum arhati

SYNONYMS

avinasi--imperishable; tu--but; tat--that; viddhi--know it; yena--by whom; sarvam--all of the body; idam--this; tatam--pervaded; vinasam--destruction; avyayasya--of the imperishable; asya--of it; na kascit--no one; kartum--to do; arhati--is able.

TRANSLATION

Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul.

PURPORT

This verse more clearly explains the real nature of the soul, which is spread all over the body. Anyone can understand what is spread all over the body: it is consciousness. Everyone is conscious of the pains and pleasures of the body in part or as a whole. This spreading of consciousness is limited within one's own body. The pains and pleasures of one body are unknown to another. Therefore, each and every body is the embodiment of an individual soul, and the symptom of the soul's presence is perceived as individual consciousness. This soul is described as one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair point in size. The Svetasvatara Upanisad confirms this:

balagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca

bhago jivah sa vijneyah sa canantyaya kalpate

"When the upper point of a hair is divided into one hundred parts and again each of such parts is further divided into one hundred parts, each such part is the measurement of the dimension of the spirit soul." (Svet. 5.9) Similarly, in the Bhagavatam the same version is stated:

kesagra-sata-bhagasya satamsah sadrsatmakah

jivah suksma-svarupo 'yam sankhyatito hi cit-kanah

"There are innumerable particles of spiritual atoms, which are measured as one ten-thousandth of the upper portion of the hair."

Therefore, the individual particle of spirit soul is a spiritual atom smaller than the material atoms, and such atoms are innumerable. This very small spiritual spark is the basic principle of the material body, and the influence of such a spiritual spark is spread all over the body as the influence of the active principle of some medicine spreads throughout the body. This current of the spirit soul is felt all over the body as consciousness, and that is the proof of the presence of the soul. Any layman can understand that the material body minus consciousness is a dead body, and this consciousness cannot be revived in the body by any means of material administration. Therefore, consciousness is not due to any amount of material combination, but to the spirit soul. In the Mundaka Upanisad the measurement of the atomic spirit soul is further explained:

eso 'nur atma cetasa veditavyo

yasmin pranah pancadha samvivesa

pranais cittam sarvam otam prajanam

yasmin visuddhe vibhavaty esa atma

"The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air [prana, apana, vyana, samana and udana], is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited." (Mund. 3.1.9)

The hatha-yoga system is meant for controlling the five kinds of air encircling the pure soul by different kinds of sitting postures--not for any material profit, but for liberation of the minute soul from the entanglement of the material atmosphere.

So the constitution of the atomic soul is admitted in all Vedic literatures, and it is also actually felt in the practical experience of any sane man. Only the insane man can think of this atomic soul as all-pervading Visnu-tattva.

The influence of the atomic soul can be spread all over a particular body. According to the Mundaka Upanisad, this atomic soul is situated in the heart of every living entity, and because the measurement of the atomic soul is beyond the power of appreciation of the material scientists, some of them assert foolishly that there is no soul. The individual atomic soul is definitely there in the heart along with the Supersoul, and thus all the energies of bodily movement are emanating from this part of the body. The corpuscles which carry the oxygen from the lungs gather energy from the soul. When the soul passes away from this position, activity of the blood, generating fusion, ceases. Medical science accepts the importance of the red corpuscles, but it cannot ascertain that the source of the energy is the soul. Medical science, however, does admit that the heart is the seat of all energies of the body.

Such atomic particles of the spirit whole are compared to the sunshine molecules. In the sunshine there are innumerable radiant molecules. Similarly, the fragmental parts of the Supreme Lord are atomic sparks of the rays of the Supreme Lord, called by the name prabha or superior energy. Neither Vedic knowledge nor modern science denies the existence of the spirit soul in the body, and the science of the soul is explicitly described in the Bhagavad-gita by the Personality of Godhead Himself.

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 7.116

īśvarera tattva — yena jvalita jvalana

jīvera svarūpa — yaiche sphulińgera kaṇa

SYNONYMS

īśvarera tattva — the truth of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; yena — is like; jvalita — blazing; jvalana — fire; jīvera — of the living entities; svarūpa — identity; yaiche — is like; sphulińgera — of the spark; kaṇa — particle.

TRANSLATION

"The Lord is like a great blazing fire, and the living entities are like small sparks of that fire.

PURPORT

Although sparks and a big fire are both fire and both have the power to burn, the burning power of the fire and that of the spark are not the same. Why should one artificially try to become like a big fire although by constitution he is like a small spark? It is due to ignorance. One should therefore understand that neither the Supreme Personality of Godhead nor the small sparklike living entities have anything to do with matter, but when the spiritual spark comes in contact with the material world his fiery quality is extinguished. That is the position of the conditioned souls. Because they are in touch with the material world, their spiritual quality is almost dead, but because these spiritual sparks are all Kṛṣṇa's parts and parcels, as the Lord states in the Bhagavad-gītā (mamaivāḿśaḥ), they can revive their original position by getting free from material contact. This is pure philosophical understanding. In the Bhagavad-gītā the spiritual sparks are declared to be sanātana (eternal); therefore the material energy, māyā, cannot affect their constitutional position.

Someone may argue, "Why is there a need to create the spiritual sparks?" The answer can be given in this way: Since the Absolute Personality of Godhead is omnipotent, He has both unlimited and limited potencies. This is the meaning of omnipotent. To be omnipotent, He must have not only unlimited potencies but limited potencies also. Thus to exhibit His omnipotency He displays both. The living entities are endowed with limited potency although they are part of the Lord. The Lord displays the spiritual world by His unlimited potencies, whereas by His limited potencies the material world is displayed. In the Bhagavad-gītā (7.5) the Lord says:

apareyam itas tv anyāḿ prakṛtiḿ viddhi me parām

jīva-bhūtāḿ mahā-bāho yayedaḿ dhāryate jagat

"Besides these inferior energies, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of Mine, which comprises all living entities who are exploiting the resources of this material, inferior nature." The jīva-bhūta, the living entities, control this material world with their limited potencies. Generally, people are bewildered by the activities of scientists and technologists. Due to māyā they think that there is no need of God and that they can do everything and anything, but actually they cannot. Since this cosmic manifestation is limited, their existence is also limited. Everything in this material world is limited, and for this reason there is creation, sustenance and dissolution. However, in the world of unlimited energy, the spiritual world, there is neither creation nor destruction.

If the Personality of Godhead did not possess both limited and unlimited energies, He could not be called omnipotent. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān: "The Lord is greater than the greatest and smaller than the smallest." He is smaller than the smallest in the form of the living entities and greater than the greatest in His form of Kṛṣṇa. If there were no one to control, there would be no meaning to the conception of the supreme controller (īśvara), just as there is no meaning to a king without his subjects. If all the subjects became king, there would be no distinction between the king and an ordinary citizen. Thus for the Lord to be the supreme controller there must be a creation to control. The basic principle for the existence of the living entities is called cid-vilāsa, or spiritual pleasure. The omnipotent Lord displays His pleasure potency as the living entities. The Lord is described in the Vedānta-sūtra (1.1.12) as ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. He is by nature the reservoir of all pleasures, and because He wants to enjoy pleasure, there must be energies to give Him pleasure or supply Him the impetus for pleasure. This is the perfect philosophical understanding of the Absolute Truth.

In the books of Srila Prabhupada we find some things that don't exactly verify what Sarva gattah is claiming that Srila Prabhupada means to say in some very confused conversations with disciples jumping in and out with some rather incoherent questions.

CC Adi 5. 22 - purport,

As spiritual sparks of the beams emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord, we are all permanently related with Him and equal to Him in quality. The material energy is a covering of the spiritual spark, but in the absence of that material covering, the living beings in Vaikuṇṭhaloka are never forgetful of their identities: they are eternally cognizant of their relationship with God in their constitutional position of rendering transcendental loving service to the Lord...............

As we have already described, the soul is a spiritual spark many, many times more illuminating, dazzling and powerful than the sun, moon or electricity. Human life is spoiled when man does not realize his real identity with his soul. Lord Caitanya appeared with Lord Nityānanda to save man from this type of misleading civilization.

However, all of Krishna’s marginal ‘sparks’ and so called 'atoms in the effulgence have the same ORIGINAL bodily features like Krishna – sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. The full potential and original feature of all living entities is a two arm human looking form

Can you please quote for us the shastric evidence that the tatastha-jiva is "sat-cit-ananda-VIGRAHA".

I am having trouble finding any proof.

In proper debate you can't just quote "Prabhupada said", but we need some proof in shastra because all of Prabhupada's teachings are based on shastra.

I think along the same lines a Beggar. This world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world. What we have here is a cheap imitation of the real thing.

Material time is a cheap imitation of spiritual time.

In fact, I would not even deny the possibility that there is a "night" in Goloka caused by Yogamaya.

Does Krishna not take rest and sleep?

He certainly does in his Gokula lila.

Does Krishna not dance with the Gopis on the banks of the Yamuna in the MOONLIGHT?

If there is no Moonlit nights for Krishna to dance with the Gopis, then how is Gokula an exact replica of Goloka?

The great Gaudiya authorities say there is no difference between Goloka and Gokula except that one is manifest on this plane and the other is not.

Could Krishnaloka have a Moon?

There is no NEED of sunlight or moonlight in Goloka, but that does not mean that there is not such a thing just for the lila.

Sunlight and Moonlight is not NECESSARY, but is could be there just for the fun of it.

Srila Prabhupada said we have just been given a "peep" into the world of Krishna.

That little "peep" shows very little of the reality of Krishnaloka.

That "peep" into the erotic conjugal love of Krishna and the gopis is just a very tiny glimpse into the basic concept.

The details have been withheld because it is beyond our grasp at this time.

Is there not "asta-kaliya-lila" the eightfold daily pastimes of Krishna in Krishnaloka?

The eightfold DAILY pastimes of Krishna are ETERNAL.

They are not just temporary material manifestations.

So, I totally agree with Beggar.

We only have a peep into reality and all the details will only be known if and when we can attain to that plane of devotion.