chandu_69

I don't see how this solves any contradictions. Actually, all the gospels were written after Jesus died.

That is factually incorrect.Gospel of John was written after Jesus death claiming to be revelations from Jesus.

The earliest one was the gospel of Mark, which is thought to be written at the earliest after 70 AD.

If he did, please point out.

Moreover, the entire Christian Bible is believed to be the word of God himself, just like Vedic scriptures are believed to be the word of God. Furthermore, I don't believe Jesus' crying out "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?", is really contradicting his being one with God.

No, it didn't contradict him being with god.But it clearly says what Jesus felt, i.e. Father(god) forsaking himself in the moment of crisis.And that(jesus agony) clearly portrays Jesus being dependent on Father(God).

Don't you think Jesus words are more authentic then other people words?.(response to:entire Christian Bible being word's of god)

The contrast is Plain and obvious .Krishna Claims to be God In Gita whereas Jesus claims to be dependent on Father and is doing his Father's bidding.

Likewise, the fact that Jesus "was sent", can be seen as part of his being human. So, your argument in your post #59 doesn't hold. I don't see how your post #53 (about hell) is relevant.

Respond to my posts(59 and 53) and see if you find it relevant or not.

.Do you agree then that Jesus Christ and Krishna were avatars of the same God and that both in fact were God, and that in this sense it can be said that Christ is Krishna? This - in combination with the monistic theistic concept of God in Christianity (see my post #57 and #58) - would mean that Christianity and Vaishnavism are remarkably compatible religious philosophies...

 

No, and it is explained clearly in post 53 and it's preceding posts.Eternal punishment in hell for unbelief as described in Christianity is not compatible with Hinduism.

This is With regards to soap and detergents info required by Mike:

Laundry detergents don't have animal fat in them.The surfactants used are derived from Palmoil or petroleum products.

Bath soaps do contain animal fat derived products.one has to check the indivindual brands.

check for Indian soap makers like godrej. also IFFCO has number of brands(Royal Lather, Savannah , Lace & Eva) in malaysia.

Okay. But my point is that both the Bible (New Testament) and Vedic literature (Bhagavad Gita) seem to refer to the same God in much the same way, indicating that Christ and Krishna really are on the same level.

I have countered that Point in posts 53 and 59.

The Bible makes it perfectly clear that Jesus Christ is God himself. Jesus said "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30). And the book of Hebrews speaks of the Son as "the Being through whom God created the universe", and "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word." (Hebrews 1:2-3). Yet, Jesus was also a man; a human being of flesh and blood, who preached God's word on Earth, and who suffered and died for the sins of mankind.

I have no issues with divinity of Jesus.I was pointing out the apparent contradictions you mentioned.The contradictions can be resolved

when you separate what Jesus said while he was alive and what The apostles added after his death.Gospel written by John is after the death of Jesus and the Hebrews you mentioned are obviously not Jesus's sayings.

Now, my argument is that this apparent dichotomy of Jesus Christ being both God and human, is remarkably similar to the dichotomy of Krishna being both the all pervading God himself and a human avatar, teaching Arjuna all of lives philosophy. And in the sense that both Christ and Krishna are God, it can be said that Christ is Krishna, i.e., they must ultimately be the same divine being or God..

In Hinduism the concept of Avatar is established Much before the arrival of Krishna.So, there is no dichotomy as far as Hinduism is concerned.

The Jews have an issue about Jesus being the son of god.But, that is an altogether different matter which has to be resolved B/n the Jewish and christian people.

Yes. That's a real problem of general Biblical texts. There are (too) many inconsistencies in the different accounts from different authors.

Not much i am afraid.What Jesus said when he was Alive is consistent.What the Apostles(John and mark) added after his passing away were inconsistent with What actually jesus said.

Jesus said his mission was to save the jews, "the lost sheep of Israel".

Jesus's gospel before he was crucified:

Matthew 10:5-6:

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

After Jesus's death Apostles Johan and Matthew expanded Jesus mission to include "All nations".

Matthew 28:16-20

19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

One testimony may state: "For in him we live, and move, and have our being." (Acts 17:28),

That is Paul(John's) views,Not Jesus's sayings.

yet in another, the same Lord Jesus Christ exclaims: "My God, my God, why didst Thou forsake me?" (Mark 15:34).

 

 

Mark 15:34 agrees with the other account Matthew 27:46.

But don’t you think this could be similar to the confusion between Krishna the Absolute Truth, the Cause of all causes, and Krishna avatar the cowherd's boy?

There is disagreement with regards to Who is the source, Krishna or Vishnu.Some see Krishna as Manifestation of Vishnu and others see "Krishna in Goloka" as the source.The difference is that of perception.I am personally not bothered much about it.

 

Furthermore, Jesus Christ is (the Son of) God. So, Christ must be Krishna. Even Prabhupada said that Christianity is Vaishnavism. Christians practice bhakti-yoga when they worship Jesus Christ, because they are accepting him as (the personal) God.

 

Vaishnava blog feeds » Blog Archive » Christianity is Vaisnavism

That is too far fetching;Whoever wrote this in the link is wildly imaginative.

Going by the bible account of Jesus; Jesus was SENT.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was not SENT except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

AND the one who SENT him has forsaken him.

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou FORSAKEN me?

I guess that`s what you call TWO SIDES OF THE COIN.

The likes of theist can never abandon their fanatic backgrounds.

Krishna says in Gita to surrender to him while performing one's duty.Krishna didn't specify nor restrict the ways one can adopt to surrender to him.

Krishna didn't say chanting his name is the only correct way to surrender to him.

A learned priest(Brahmin) surrenders to Krishna by performing his duty i.e. chanting mantras.

Mechanical chanting of mantras without surrender is fruitless.That is the moral of story for the likes of Jada bharata's brothers.Jada Bharata was playing dumb to disassociate himself from his brothers.

The story also is an eye opener to Harekrishnas like theist who spends most of their time splitting hair ends and forget surrender to krishna.Mere chanting of Vedic Mantras or Harekrishna Mantra doesn't mean one is surrendering to Lord.

The issue here is not whether we believe in Jesus or Krsna. The main argument was whether there`s an eternal hell. .

The Main issue is eternal hell.Unbeleivers of Krishna don't go to eternal hell as per Bhagavadgita.

But, As per Bible Unbelievers of Jesus(Son of God) goes to eternal hell.

Who says so?

Krishna himself says so;In bhagavad gita.

THey held meetings around grapes and bread.

It just occurred to me that the last supper was that of bread and not a bowl of meat.

melvin]My View: Yes. Plenty of people, too, can control their lust and anger without believing in Krsna.

True, But they are not going to suffer in Eternal hell for not believing in Krishna.

melvin]Yes, precisely! Lust eventually begets rape. And anger ultimately reaps murder.

Lust eventually leads to love and anger eventually leads to realization; at least in majority of cases .

Saved from sin, like lust and anger

Healthy dose of Lust is required for propagation of life.Anger is a natural reaction.

How they are sins?.

If the above impulses are excessive and uncontrolled one may be inclined to do bad things and hence SIN.

Plenty of people can control their impulses without believing in Jesus.

Please, ladies and gentlemen, and I sincerely hope you will take my advice on this seriously...

 

I am glad that you are concerned enough to write to people who obviously tolerated bigoted representations of our culture. However, it is extremely important that you should come across as knowledgeable and coherent. Please do not write messages that are full of grammatical mistakes. If you cannot write in English properly, then you will be perceived as a fundamentalist. Your views will be treated as those of a fanatic, regardless of their merits.

 

A major problem facing Hinduism today is that those who try to defend Hinduism often attack scholars. When you want to take scholars to task, you need to at least appear intelligent. Writing at a 4th grade level does nothing to make your position seem more reasonable.

 

I hope you will take this seriously. In my opinion, if more Hindus could control the urge to respond long enough to proofread their responses, we would all be better off.

True.I resisted the urge to write to them and instead alerted the scholars about this.

I think I can see your point and it is well taken but I am still stuck in that Vedic quandry where I just cannot seem to harmonize the contradictions of the Vedas. Sometimes it says there are no hard fast rules to chanting then other times it says you are going to hell if you don't chant perfectly right. .

These rules are meant to dissuade people from trivializing chanting.Just a set of guidelines.

I can even prepare another list of plain commonsense rules like dont chant when you are drunk etc

My View: I`m a fan of Apostle`s Mark and Matthew not John. So, what ever John the Apostle says in the Bible in John3:36 to me is not a done deal.

Here is Mark

Mark 16:16 (kjv)

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned..

It looks like a done deal.

My View: (Christ) Jesus is the Savior from the righteous Anger(Rudra) of God( Krsna).

Krishna or Shiva(rudra) don't condemn you to eternal hell if you worship other gods.You pretty well know that.

Now getting back to the original question.

Saved from What?(as per bible)

Don't give missionary bs like Jesus is Prajapathi etc..

In the absence of Christ in Jesus, Sant, is a consideration he`s a myth. Just as the absence of Christ in Jesus as savior is a myth. Because we have faith Jesus is the Christ then he isn`t a myth to billions of Christians like me who believe Christ Jesus is God and Savior.

Oh yes , jesus is the saviour from Wrath of God(Father)

BIBLE:

John 3:36 kjv

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jesus is the Savior from the righteous Anger(Wrath) of God(Father).

Am i right?, melvin.

It is just leaf, flower, water & fruit...no grain. And Krishna does not say that was his diet.

 

Cheers

Gita is not a dietary book .It just says Satvik diet.Read before posting.

i would like to know if i can email them too !!

BDuignan@eb.com

Brian Duignan, Senior Editor, Philosophy and Religion Encyclopedia

It is there in the link i gave above.

In other words, Theist. Eternal punishment in hell according to Chandu which Sant have re-affirmed does exist but applicable only to our being forgetful of Krsna.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

Me and sant never agreed about Eternal punishment.

We are asking you about Eternal punishment as mentioned in bible.

More spiel as usual from Chandu, the Hare Krishna.

What i wrote is consistent with Bhagavad Gita.Btw, i am not a harekrishna.I am a simple hindu.

BG 7.21: I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship some Deva, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity.

BG 7.22: Endowed with such a faith, he endeavors to worship a particular Deva and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.

Does it sound like Hari is bothered with supremacy?.

Actually the Gurus of today are more liberal due to their requirement of global currency. They take grand positions of Jesus = Vaiahnava, all foreign Gods are Krishna, etc. But according to you, these 20th century Gurus are original Hindus and the 700 year old Madhva is a neo Hindu!

Take your issue with Neohindus and NEO-gurus.

This is what happens, when people who know nothing, pull definitions out of their hats - a common tendency among Chandu and his affiliates. On the bright side, no one is fooled here by their nonsensical approach of making things up as they go along.

Nothing is made up in my posts. Your verbal diarrhea means nothing.

Cheers

As usual nothing to cheer about unless you are drunk.

Good job, Simla.

Let there be more emails to britannica objecting to their offensive position.

ah...never mind what it ,means !!

 

it refers to ramakrishna . the three aspects of chandu's posts are :

-showing to the world how vile and wretched islam is !

-how dangerous and murderous "neo-hindus" are !!

-how criminal ramakrishna was !!

 

 

theres not a single post without reference to atleast any one from these three . go to his profile and check his 'find all posts' to see what i mean !

Pure calumny.Sure,go through all my posts, especially at http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/454643-what-s-name-2.html

So you believe in eternal hell.

I think you meant to ask will there be Eternal punishment in Hell.

Waht did smiley mean when he said reject it as irrelevant - as do billions of other people all over the world.

The Indian subcontinent has not been well served by this myth.

Yes people all over Europe rejected this Myth

that jesus is the only saviour.It is in no way demeaning to jesus because jesus said:

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Sant, I don`t know the difference from a Hindu and a Neo-Hindu.

Here it goes.A traditional hindu respects the rights of people to follow non-hindu faiths but doesn't ACCEPT their theology THAT a Hindu is destined for eternal punishment in hell.

The neohindus view and declare with some vehemence (I know it sounds strange and bizarre ) that the non-hindu faiths who deride hinduism are VALID.

It is no wonder that the world has utter contempt for hinduism.

Btw: nice touch bringing in nazism.