Guruvani

Prabhupada is not special to you.(that's very unfortunate for you) I have never proposed doing away with Gaudiya tradition and the ritvik system contains every last element of the tradition in a system of representative authority. What I do propose in doing away with is the bigoted, dogmatic version of the tradition that is being promoted nowadays. The living ritvik system is just as unprecedented as is the post-samadhi ritvik system. Some fools are even so ignorant as to criticize and condemn the living ritivk system that was in place during the time of Prabhupada. Prabhupada broke the tradition himself personally while he was here in many ways. Why should we now try to conform to the tradition that Prabhupada abandoned while he was here. Giving gayatri by tape violates the tradition. Giving diksha by ritvik violates the tradition, women on the altar violates tradition, single women in the temples selling books with breast power violates the tradition. Tradition? Prabhupada didn't seem to give a damn about the tradition while he was here, so why should we give a damn about it now?

Audarya-lila das says: and he says: My high opinion of him has just been seriously diminished with such arrogance and impudence to condescend to Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur with these words. Such statements betray a very feeble and blunted understanding of Bhaktivinode. I thought Audarya-lila das was coming along nicely as a student of Sridhar Maharaja's siksha, but I can see that his sentiments and arrogance have created a great stumbling block to his advancement with such an offensive attitude towards the wisdom of Bhaktivinode Thakur.

Audarya-lila das says: and he says: My high opinion of him has just been seriously diminished with such arrogance and impudence to condescend to Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur with these words. Such statements betray a very feeble and blunted understanding of Bhaktivinode. I thought Audarya-lila das was coming along nicely as a student of Sridhar Maharaja's siksha, but I can see that his sentiments and arrogance have created a great stumbling block to his advancement with such an offensive attitude towards the wisdom of Bhaktivinode Thakur.

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We hear a lot of talk about ritvik being unprecedented in the sampradaya, though some Madhva scholars say that it has been done by Acharyas in the past. What we don't hear about is that neophyte gurus in the sampradaya is most definitely unprecedented as far as the history of the great acharyas are concerned. The actual sampradaya of Gaudiya Vaishnavism has a history of great Maha-Bhagavats, nitya-siddhas and svarupa-siddhas as the diksha and siksha gurus of the parampara. We have never heard about scandals and controversy in the history of the sampradaya wherein neophyte devotees have risen to the rank of acharya or guru to then fall down and bring disgrace upon the parampara. The Gaudiya sampradaya is traditionally a parampara of siddha-bhaktas and not the neophyte/madhyama gurus we have today falling down right and left. This very high and holy order of diksha guru is traditionally reserved for the siddha-bhaktas who have attained to svarupa-siddhi and are of the order of sat guru or the eternal order of spiritual master. This modern system of neophyte devotees functioning as diksha guru is for the most part a sham and a scam, meant for deceiving the uninformed and innocent newcomers who are so easily influenced and taken advantage of. Therefore, foreseeing that the tradition of the maha-bhagavata guru would be violated in ISKCON if his disciples prematurely become guru, Srila Prabhupada had to institute the ritvik system by the ORDER OF LORD KRISHNA, in order to insure that the tradition of the parampara of maha-bhagavats be continued in ISKCON. Talk about unprecedented? Neophyte diksha gurus is definitely a break from the tradition of the Gaudiya sampradaya, which is traditionally a parampara of siddha-bhaktas of the sad-guru order. A real guru in the sampradaya is a sad-guru of the order described by Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur in the gurvastakam. If a person does not meet the criterian summarized in those verses by the Thakur, then he is not really a guru, rather he is a cheater.

In the example of Chintamani the prostitute, it might not be that the spiritual master of Bilvamangal Thakur actually incarnated as the prostitute but that through her he was able to speak. He might have been able to affect the heart of the prostitute to deliver a message without having to become the prostitute. We have heard in scripture that great master like Sukadeva Goswami can enter the hearts of all. In this way through a sort of mystical power the spiritual master comes back to deliver his disciples.

Srila Sridhar Maharaja recognized Srila Prabhupada as a shaktya-vesha avatar. That means he was especially empowered for a special purpose. If he did everything exactly the same way that Gaudiya Math did, then what is special about him? In making Krishna consciousness a practical idealogy in western society some adjustments had to be made. The rules of the Gaudiya Math are impossible to apply in a western context. Trying to make the old school babaji tradition the model for Krishna consciousness in the western world is fantasy and foolishness. Prabhupada came to make Krishna consciousness a practical, working ideal for people living in the modern space-age. He did not come to try and transplant the old traditions of the babaji cults into Christian oriented western society. He wanted to make Krishna consciousness as practical and accessible as Christianity is to western society. In doing so he needed to make some adjustments. He many times applauded and confirmed the Christian and Muslim tradition of following the ONE great Saviour or Prophet through a system of priests, clerics and clergymen. He wanted to establish Krishna consciousness in ISKCON under a similar concept. Using the old school Gaudiya tradition as a model for Krishna consciousness in modern western societies is ludicrous and actually impossible. Some adjustments have to be made unless Krishna consciousness is to remain as the monopoly of babaji cults in India. Time will show that this attempt to make the old school model of so-called parampara the standard in western societies as a failure as guru after guru bites the dust, blemishes the system and discredits Vaishnavism as cheap, impracticle and unworkable. This has already happened time after time after time in ISKCON. How long must this charade go on in ISKCON before we wake up and realize that it is doing more harm than good? As I have said before; TO HELL WITH YOUR SO-CALLED TRADITION!

Yes, it is like an herbacide that kills the weeds of material desire to artifically be guru and deceive innocent neophytes for the sake of a livelyhood as a professional saviour. Ritvik is not heresy. All the elements of the Bhagavata-marga and Pancaratrika-vidhi are included in the Ritvik method.

I highly recommend the Love and Peace CD as it is only the bamboo flute and harp music. I heard the samples on the web page but I think the Love and Peace album is the best album to start with.

Krishna is much more than God - he is the absolute truth, the God of Gods. The conception of God and the conception of Absolute Truth are not on the same level. The Srimad-Bhägavatam hits on the target of the Absolute Truth. The conception of God indicates the controller, whereas the conception of the Absolute Truth indicates the summum bonum or the ultimate source of all energies. There is no difference of opinion about the personal feature of God as the controller because a controller cannot be impersonal.

Mahaprabhu's weapon for this age is a weapon of MASS INSTRUCTION. It is commonly known as Prabhupada's book distribution program that was the idea of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami.

http://www.vedicresource.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VR&Category_Code=INSTRPARTS this link should do the job great store for devotee supplies

http://www.vedicresource.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VR&Category_Code=INSTRPARTS this link should do the job great store for devotee supplies

I am not a practicing ritvik, so I can't really speak for those who are, but my best guess is that they feel that the GBC has failed to execute Prabhupada's actual will for ISKCON initiations and so they have felt that someone must take up that work. I feel such thinking is justifiable. Perhaps one of the most prominent and influential ritviks in the U.S. is Yashodanandan Maharaja. He is the same Yashodanandana Swami that is a very senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada. He left ISKCON after the guru conspiracy and left sannyasa and took to married life under strict principles. He has never failed in chanting his 16 rounds minimum and is a strict worshipper of his salagrama-silas and deities. His character is very respectable and his devotion to Prabhupada is quite obvious. He is no small timer. He is a very serious devotee and marvelous preacher. Maybe you should ask someone like him why they feel authorized to function as ritvik. I can only give my best guess as to their motives and intentions.

Now, now! It only applies to ISKCON as a society of devotees (others outside can be guru if they can attract a following) and only as long as ISKCON continues to represent Prabhupada and his teachings. Prabhupada was simply trying to get as much mileage out of ISKCON as possible. The ritvik principle is Prabhupada's answer to the Christian concept of a saviour. Spreading Krishna consciousness in Christian societies around the world requires a different approach than in India. In integrating Krishna consciousness into western societies Prabhupada tried to leave behind as much of the "polytheistic" character of Hinduism as possible. The ritvik doctrine is much more readily introduced into a Christian culture than is the polytheistic guru system of dime a dozen saviours in the form of so many Swamis and Gurus.

Well, does "this is the transcendental system behind the ritvik doctrine" ring your bell? For me it was a theory, but in reality it was a principle.

That article sounds to me like the writting of some evil element that is trying to infiltrate ISKCON and inject the moral equivalent to the aids virus into the movement. This kind of propaganda sounds like the enemies of goodness are working to make ISKCON into a haven for perverts, freaks and pedophiles. His propaganda will never fly. He is only revealing what total nonsense will infiltrate ISKCON if given half a chance. It is perversion plain and simply. There can be no Holy matrimony between two perverts. Marriage is a spiritual union between men and women, not for homosexual gratification.

I just wanted to share something beautiful with the members here. It is the music of Lisa Lynne Franco. Let me first say that I am not advertising something here that I stand to make a profit from. I have nothing to gain financially by this music review. I first heard the music of Lisa Lynne at an arts and crafts festival held yearly in my hometown of High Springs, Florida. I was very captivated by the deep moodyness of the harp and flute music. The first thing I thought of when I heard her celtic harp along with the wooden flute of George Tortorelli was that Radharani plays a stringed instrument and Krishna plays a flute. I thought that this combination of instruments was absolutely sublime. I bought a CD at their booth that day. When I got home with it I retired to my room and put it in my computer to play it. Immediatly, I was plunged into a deep emotional state of the sweetest sorrow and wept pitifully for several hours that night as I listened to the CD over and over again. No music had ever done that to me before. Nothing had ever done that to me before. I don't play the CD very often now because of the deep emotional state that it puts me into when i hear it. Tonight, I played the CD again, and again I was plunged into an emotional sweet sorrow and started to weep. I just wanted to share this music with those out there that might also appreciate this very deep harp and flute music that might be somewhat reflective of the musical combination of Radha's stringed instrument and Krishna's flute. The CD I have is entitled "Love and Peace" by Lisa Lynne Franco and George Tortorelli. Here is a nice picture of Lisa Lynne on another of her CDs. You can find her music on the internet by doing a search on her name. She has a web site. Her CDs can be purchased over the internet or in some music stores. I highly recommend this wonderful harp and flute music as background music for chanting japa and looking at images of Radha-Krishna.

Not really. Bhaktisiddhanta Goswami did not establish a GBC authority or appoint ritviks, give gayatri by tape etc. etc. Your argument is very weak. Bhaktisiddhanta did not issue a written directive a few weeks before his passing establishing a ritvik authority - Srila Prabhupada did! He also did not personally preach outside of India in a Judeo-Christian society more atuned to the concept of a Universal saviour than to a multitude of gurus and Swamis where saviours are a dime a dozen. Prabhupada made it clear that he did not come to conform to any stereotype - even that of his spiritual master.

Tripurari Swami says: "Hindu scripture is largely silent on homosexuality". Maybe that is a good idea? Maybe he should also be LARGELY silent about homosexuality instead of making controversial statements and expressing controversial opinions about it? If he is going to open his mouth and stick his foot into it, maybe silence would be less damaging? Maybe the Hindus follow the Hindu scriptures and keep homosexuality in the closet where it belongs instead of trying to make it mainstream and commonplace. If Swami had ever raised his own children he might have a different view about all this liberal hogwash that is making american society unfit for our children to grow up in.

Tripurari Swami says;(about homo sex) Hindu religious scripture clearly mandates that for sexual relationships to be spiritually progressive they must be tied to commitment, generally in the form of sacred vows of marriage. The spirit behind this policy is that the sexual urge, which animates the world, must be regulated if it is to be transcended.

CC ch 15 text 171 purport tomara iccha-matre habe brahmanda-mocana sarva mukta karite krsnera nahi kichu srama "Because of your honest desire, all living entities within the universe will be delivered, for Krishna does not have to do anything to deliver all the living entities of the universe" So, we can see here that if Srila Prbhupada wanted to deliver all the future devotees of ISKCON through a ritvik initiation, that Krishna would surely back up his efforts and personally relieve such devotees from their karma and deliver them by the desire of Srila Prabhupada. This is the transcendental principle behind the efficacy of the ritvik doctrine. The will of the pure devotee is supported and fullfilled by Krishna himself.

I don't think that "entering the temple" should be equated with living in the ashram. Are we supposed to beleive that Prabhupada expected the women in the temple to accept a transexual male among them living in their ashram, showering and dressing with them? I have no objections to homos, lesbians or transexuals entering the temple for kirtan and aratrika. I will never accept that Prabhupada was saying that this male transexual was to be accepted into the women's ashram of any temple. I don't think the women of any temple would go for that at all. We can also infer from this letter though that if this person could not decide on their identity as male or female that Prabhupada did not even want him/her coming into the temple at all for anything.

Contrary to the supposition by the Swami that Hinduism is losing it's vitality by not being accepting and understanding enough of the gay lifestyle, there is much evidence to discount his theory and a practical example of how the opposite is true. Perhaps the biggest blow to Hinduism in modern times is the damage inflicted upon the Hindu religion by the misconduct of homosexuals and pedophiles that claimed affiliation with ISKCON and the Krishna consciousness movement. The vitality of the Hindu religion has been practically sucked out of it by the misconduct of homosexuals who infiltrated the religion and captured prominent positions to just cause immense destruction by their sexual abominations upon children. The vitality of the Hindu religion and the Krishna consciousness movement is not rejuvenated and restored by political correctness and liberal standards towards gay people. The vitality of Hinduism and the Krishna consciousness movement is dependent upon the successful introduction of Vaishnava culture in a way that becomes practical for all people of all countries of all ethnic and social backgrounds. There is no need to cater to or favor one particular group over another. Krishna consciousness should be made available to everyone in their home - be they gay or morally conservative. The institutional framework becomes a treacherous and burdensome hulk in the face of so much compromise and political correctness. Temples and ashrams need to represent the highest standards and not a watered-down "Salvation Army" style mission of derelicts, misfits and alternative lifestyles. The qualifications for admittance into such temples and ashrams should be strictly scrutinized and any persons of questionable character should not be allowed. Living in a temple or an ashram should be a privilege of the tried and true and not the right of just any perverted individual attempting to intrude. The evidence is there that homosexuals practically destroyed ISKCON financially with the lawsuits brought upon it by the abused children of the gurukula system. The lesson is there and those who forget the past are prone to repeat it. From this evidence we can learn that the vitality of the movement is not dependent upon accommodating and accepting homosexuals and lesbians into the movement, but rather in encouraging them to practice Krishna consciousness at home and keep their sexual orientation to themselves as the great Pundit Chanakhya has said: "Do not reveal your own faults to others". Considering this, maybe it is better that some things like sexual preferences are better off kept to oneself or persons of the gay disposition not be allowed to live in the temples and ashrams of the Krishna consciousness movement. This will help preserve and enhance the vitality of Hinduism, not the pandering and pacification of the gay liberation movement through it's integration and amalgamation into the Krishna consciousness movement.