Guruvani

Repeating the VANI of Srila Prabhupada is not going to kill ISKCON, rather it will revive and sustain it. Like Prabhupada himself said: "the dogs will bark, but the caravan will pass" ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada will never be a flattering place for the Gaudiya Math Godbrothers. Some toes will be stepped on in the march of ISKCON to enlighten the whole world. They should just leave ISKCON alone and accept the will of Srila Prabhupada that these Gaudiya Math Godbrothers and their disciples should stay away from ISKCON and ISKCON should stay away from them. Seperate but equal............ one and different! It's in Prabhupada's books! Should we go and edit out this issue now? I don't think so. It is alive and well in Prabhupada's books..........it' permanent and irreversible.

Prabhupada established ISKCON in his own way and it is not compatible with Gaudiya Math. There cannot be a merging of the two. Gaudiya Math Godbrothers are not eligible for preaching in ISKCON. They can start their own international missions and I have never objected to that. They can do as they please but they are not eligible to preach in ISKCON. Nobody said they can't do their own preaching, start their own temples and make disciples. They can do all that - just not in ISKCON..... that is the plain and simple design of Srila Prabhupada and nothing has changed about that. They are not welcome in ISKCON temples to come in and preach Gaudiya Math dogma.....to create disturbance.

Besides that, the Lilamrita is not written by Prabhupada nor is it authoritative shastra. Actually, Satsvarupa asked Prabhupada a couple of times if he could write his biography and Prabhupada forbade him from doing so. After Prabhupada passed away Satsvarupa wrote an unauthorized biography that has many errors and misconceptions about Srila Prabhupada portrayed in it. Srila Sridhar Maharaja also explained that the title "Lilamrita" was improper as the term lila only applies to the pastimes of Krishna. The activities of the spiritual master are not lila. They are service to the Lila of Krishna/Mahaprabhu but not lila itself. Calling Prabhupada's activities as lila is tantamount to calling him the Lord Sri Krishna....... not proper!

Yashodanandan prabhu says: Any how is that a retraction of Srila Prabhupada's instructions to his disciples? Where does Srila Prabhupada say that his disciples should reject his long standing orders to avoid Gaudiya Math and his Godbrothers? It doesn't exist. This statement has nothing to do with Prabhupada retracting his orders to his disciples to avoid Gaudiya Math. There is no such order. It does not exist. We can respect these Gaudiya Math Godbrothers, but that does not require an intimate connection to take their vani and diksha. They can do their own thing and ISKCON should do it's own thing and there should not be any effort to combine the two. I am not blaspheming these Vaishnavas - just repeating Prabhuapda's orders on how to deal with them. I respect them from a distance...... the way Prabhupada wanted it.

Yashodanandan prabhu says: What instructions? What statements by Prabhupada to his disciples are you referring to? Please present these instructions and statements where Prabhupada retracted his long standing orders regarding Gaudiya Math and his Godbrothers? I don't accept hearsay. Please show me the evidence. p.s. If you are not a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, you are free do to as you choose and accept any Gaudiya Math guru if you wish. I am referring to Prabhupada's instructions to HIS DISCIPLES.

We've all heard the argument that Prabhupada resolved his long standing bitter differences with his Godbrothers on his deathbed, but as far as his disciples are concerned we can see no retraction or nullification of his long standing position towards his Godbrothers. Hearsay and innuendo is all there is to support this complete turnaround in Srila Prabhupada's position towards the Gaudiya Math and his Godbrothers. Srila Prabhupada wrote about this matter in his books in several places. It is part of shastra for his disciples. What Prabhupada said to his Godbrothers on his deathbead does not change what he drilled into his disciples during the whole period of his leadership in ISKCON. He gave no retraction to his disciples and made no declaration that all his previous instructions were now null and void. What Prabhupada might have said to his Godbrothers in the end is not documented as any instruction he pronounced for his disciples. Where does Prabhupada say anything about his disciples should now reject all his previous instructions to avoid his Godbrothers? Year after year, Prabhupada reinforced the same instruction to stay clear of the Gaudiya Math and his Godbrothers, but we are supposed to believe that in the end he retracted all that and made a complete turnaround in his position? Where is the authorized instruction from Srila Prabhupada to his disciples on this matter? There is none. All we have to go on is what he repeated over and over again for his whole tenure in ISKCON - to stay away from his Godbrothers. Nothing has changed. A couple of sentences Prabhupada might have spoken informally to some Godbrothers in the end do not change what he wrote in his books and instructed his disciples with extreme emphasis for so many years. Anybody that expects the disciples of Prabhupada to give up his long standing orders to stay away from Gaudiya Math and his Godbothers (except Sridhar Maharaja) because of undocumented, informal words he spoke to some Godbrothers are going to be greatly disappointed. Prabhupada never said anything to his disciples about retracting his orders regarding the Gaudiya Math. His orders still stand until he gives orders otherwise. The same goes for ritvik. Ritivk still stands until Prabhupada says it will stop. He hasn't yet.

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY INTIMATE CONNECTION WITH THEM Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Pradyumna 02/17/68: "Regarding Bhakti Puri Tirtha Maharaja, they are my God-brothers and should be shown respect. But you should not have any intimate connection with them as they have gone against the orders of my Guru Maharaja." NO POSSIBILITY OF COMPROMISE Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Narayana Maharaja 9/30/69: "Regarding the 92 section case against the Gaudiya Math, I don't think there is any possibility of compromise. Both the Bhagbazar Party [sridhar Maharaja's group] and Mayapur party [Tirtha Maharaja's group] have unlawfully usurped the missionary institution of Srila Prabhupada, and whenever they will talk of a compromise, it means another complication." MY FOURTH-CLASS GODBROTHERS Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Hayagriva 9/14/70: "Disturbance is caused by ignorance; where there is no ignorance, there is no disturbance. The four Sannyasis may bark, but still the caravan will pass. There is every evidence that they are influenced by some of my fourth-class Godbrothers." THEY WILL BE ENVIOUS Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Yamuna 11/18/70: "Regarding the Gaudiya Math, our position has nothing to do with them. They cannot do anything and if somebody does something, they will be envious. That is the nature of third class men." MY GODBROTHERS GAVE ME ONLY DEPRESSION Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Gurudasa 8/29/72: "Do not be depressed. All along my godbrothers gave me only depression, repression, compression--but I continued strong in my duty. So never mind there is some discouragement, continue with your work in full enthusiastic Krishna Consciousness attitude of service." THEY HAVE ALL BECOME SUDRAS Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Niranjana 5/21/73: "Our big, big godbrothers in India, they could not preach Lord Gauranga's name all over India. They are simply inclined to criticize me, that my students call me Prabhupada. They could not do anything practical and tangible. They are satisfied with a temple and a few disciples begging alms for the maintenance of the temple. "So, we can understand that they have all become sudras. How can they have interest in Bhagavad-gita. Although some of them have been born in brahmana families, but by quality are all sudras." GAUDIYA MATH BOOKS SHOULD NOT BE CIRCULATED IN OUR SOCIETY Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Sukadeva 11/14/73: "Regarding the Gaudiya Math books being circulated there, who is distributing? Who is sending these books? The Gaudiya Math does not sell our books, why we should sell their books. Who has introduced these books? Let me know. These books should not at all be circulated in our Society. Bhakti Vilas Tirtha is very much antagonistic to our society and he has no clear conception of devotional service. He is contaminated. Anyway, who has introduced these books? You say that you would read only one book if that was all that I had written, so you teach others to do like that. You have very good determination." THIS IS MY INSTRUCTION TO YOU ALL Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Rupanuga 4/28/74: "In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them." THEIR PROPOSAL FOR COOPERATION IS A MYTH Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Acutananda 6/8/74: "You should not write anything to Madhava Maharaja's camp. You may have talked many things with Mangala Niloy but why write him in black and white. The letter must not be sent. Their policy has been all along to suppress me and take credit for himself. Their proposal for cooperation is a myth. They haven't done anything which is cooperative. You know in a recent article they managed to write in such a way that Madhava is doing the world movement and we are his subordinate. From the beginning that has been their mentality. So there is no possibility of cooperation with them. Rather you should avoid strictly meeting with them. They are not after preaching but material gain and reputation and adoration. Otherwise why they are non cooperating with me? So no cooperation is possible. Do not think or indulge in loose talks. Be careful always. Let us do the duty of propagation sincerely and seriously on our own principles. Krsna and Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura are our only hope and they and helping us. If anything thing has to be done it is to be talked on the higher level between Madhava Maharaja and myself, but I know his mentality is different and there is no possibility of cooperation." SMASHED...ON ACCOUNT OF PERSONAL AMBITIONS Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Karandhara 10/8/74: "In India some of the important members they have collected huge amounts in the name of the Society and spent it luxuriously. I wanted you all my experienced disciples should manage the whole institution very cleverly without any personal ambition like ordinary materialistic men. The Gaudiya Math institution has become smashed, at least stopped its program of preaching work on account of personal ambitions." MY GODBROTHERS ARE CONCERNED WITH POLITICS Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Subala 10/15/74: "My other godbrothers they are concerned with litigations, politics, and diplomacy, so what is the pracara? As far as I am concerned I have the blessings of my guru maharaj. I do not need anything else. That is how I went to your country, just to try to carry out his order. By his blessings it has come out successful." THEY ARE NOT EVEN ORDINARY HUMAN BEING Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation with a Reporter in Johannesburg 10/16/75: "Krsna sakti vina nahe krsna name pracara: 'Without Krsna's special power of attorney, nobody can preach His name.' Caitanya-caritamrta. So these rascals, Godbrothers, they are envious that... What he has written? Bon Maharaja. Just see what kind of men they are. They are not even ordinary human being. They are envious of me, and what to speak of make a judgment by estimation? They're envious. Enviousness is immediately disqualification of Vaisnava, immediate. He is not a human being. Paramo nirmatsaranam satam. This Bhagavatam is meant for the person who is completely not envious. That is the beginning. Why a Vaisnava should be envious for anyone? Everyone is working according to his karma. He is trying to rectify him, that 'Be out of these clutches of karma. You come to bhakti.' Why he should be envious? Vancha-kalpatarubhyas ca krpa-sindhubhya eva ca. A Vaisnava should be like ocean of mercy to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Vaisnava's qualification. So Vaisnava should be envious? Just see. So these persons, they are not even human being, what to speak of Vaisnava. Vaisnava cannot be envious. Vaisnava should be: 'Oh, my Lord's name is being broadcast. He is getting, giving so much service to make Krsna known.' That man has appreciated, that 'All these spiritual leaders, they are deriding. You are the only man... You are... It enthuses us, give us more encouragement, that you are keeping intact, love of Krsna.' This is an appreciation. Why he should be envious? He should be, rather, very much enthused that 'This single man is keeping Krsna all over the world.' And everyone is deriding. Even Gandhi is killing Krsna. Dr. Radhakrishnan is killing. Their only business is to kill Krsna. He is also doing that, our, this Bon Maharaja. He never speaks of Krsna. His rascal, that Institute of Indian Philosophy, nobody goes to [pass] urine there. We see practically. And our temple is always filled up, five hundred men. And he is trying for the last forty years. He is simply planning: 'This will be playground. This will be this ground. This will be this ground.' And it is becoming jungle. Still, he is so envious, black snake. So one circular letter should be issued to all our center, that 'Any Bon Maharaja or anyone, his representative, should not be received.' They are envious. Yes. Quoting that. We have got several complaints like that. Satsvarupa also complained. Sometimes our order was cancelled by Bon Maharaja's propaganda." IN THE GAUDIYA MATH POLITICS IS STILL GOING ON Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Gurukrpa, 9/30/75: "Why is there this politics? This is not good. If politics come, then the preaching will be stopped. That is the difficulty. As soon as politics come, everything is spoiled. In the Gaudiya Math the politics is still going on. My Guru Maharaja left in 1936, and now it is 1976, so after 40 years the litigation is still going on. Do not come to this." ORDERS THAT ALL MY DISCIPLES SHOULD AVOID ALL OF MY GODBROTHERS Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Visvakarma, 11/9/75: "So I have now issued orders that all my disciples should avoid all of my godbrothers. They should not have any dealings with them nor even correspondence, nor should they give them any of my books or should they purchase any of their books, neither should you visit any of their temples. Please avoid them." THEY ARE DRESSING LIKE VAISNAVA, AND THEY ARE SO ENVIOUS Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation in Bombay 1/8/77: "There are similarly men also. Unnecessarily they are envious, offensive, unnecessary. They cannot tolerate others' opulence. Just like our Godbrothers. They are envious. What I have done to them? I am doing my business, trying to serve my Guru Maharaja. But they are envious because I am so opulent. I have got so much fame, so many influence, so much influence all over the world. Everyone is praising me about... That is ignorance. And this is regrettable because they are posing themselves as Vaisnava. Ordinary man can do that, but they are dressing like Vaisnava, and they are so envious. That Tirtha Maharaja, unnecessarily he was envious, whole life fighting, fighting, fighting in the court and died. Simply planning." THESE PEOPLE ARE ENVIOUS Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation in Vrindaban 5/24/77: "If somebody thinks, 'Oh, here is a snake with jewel. Let me embrace him, no, no, no, it is very ferocious. Even it is jewel there, it is ferocious. Similarly, these people are envious. Although they have become so-called Vaisnava, they are ferocious. They have not acquired the qualification of Vaisnava. Simply vesopidin(?), by dress

Prabhu, you seemed to have missed the point in that Gita purport you just copy/pasted. There was no mention of the vapu form of the spiritual master in that purport. What Prabhupada did refer to was the vani feature of the spiritual master: This purport and instruction is clearly referring to the instructions of the spiritual master, (his vani) and there is nor particular reference to his vapu - only his instructions(vani). The vani of Srila Prabhupada is the personal presentation of the spiritual master that is sent to help us understand what Krishna is teaching. We call them purports by Srila Prabhupada. Or, can some neophyte disciples shed more light on the verse than Prabhupada's purports? Or are you saying that we get knowledge from Prabhupada's body? no! We get knowledge from Prabhupada's vani.

Prabhupada's vani is the real initiation, even more so than any formal initiation performed by a ritvik or a successor disciple. The ritvik principle is only marginally referred to by Srila Prabhupada in the form of ISKCON administrative guidelines and is relative to ISKCON as an institution, but in no way is the exclusive and mandatory link with Srila Prabhupada. The vital living link with Srila Prabhupada is the link of vani. The ritvik system is a system of formal initiation into the ISKCON movement. It should not be equated with the importance and value of the vani link with Srila Prabhupada. The ritvik initiation is not the actual initiation by Srila Prabhupada - it is his vani. Through his vani Srila Prahbupada lives in his most wholesome and comprehensive feature that is beyond the scope of death. Ritvik is an ISKCON ritual meant for inducting members into the society. It is not spiritual initiation in it's most vital and dynamic form. The most vital, dynamic and living form of initiation is receiving the vani of Srila Prabhupada. This is the teaching of Srila Prabhupada. Don't settle for substitutes of the real thing. Anyone can accept a spiritual name and the instructions of Srila Prabhupada. Formal diksha via ritvik or otherwise is optional, external and for the most part irrelevant when compared to the indispensible necessity of taking the vani of Srila Prabhupada. Don't let the cheaters get you!

If there were no books of Srila Prabhupada, no tapes and no instructions available from him, then the current link would be any living disciples who could provide that knowledge. However, vani being more important and intimate than vapu, the current link is still Srila Prabhupada and his vani form of instructions and teachings through his books that are available all over the world. To say that Prabhupada is not the CURRENT LINK is to say that his vani does not exist and is not available to anyone. To deny Prabhupada CURRENT LINK status because his vapu is not visible in an animated way, is to deny the legitimacy of vani as being a spiritual connection to Prabhupada. The CURRENT LINK theory is very much alive and well through the vani of Srila Prabhupada. Anyone who says that Prabhupada is not the current link is a liar and a cheater out to take advantage of the innocent and vulnerable. Prabhupada's vani is the current link in the most pure and pristine form apart from all the foolish cheaters who have so many impurities and imperfections in their material conception of CURRENT LINK.

At the very end of the Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita, Srila Prabhupada gives his concluding words. In the first paragraph Srila Prabhupada says that we should take advantage of vani but NOT THE VAPU! The vapu feature of the spiritual master gives a very limited understanding of the spiritual master. If service to the vapu becomes the standard for serving and associating with the spiritual master, then the conception of eternal service and association does not exist and the spiritual master gets confined to a limited place in time and space. This goes against the teachings of the scripture that the real acharya is a transcendental person, who is not even of this world but is transcendentally situated in the spritual world. He only appears to be of this world, actually Prabhupada was manifesting himself from the spiritual dimension when we thought he was part of this world and nothing has changed for him. He was of the transcendental world then and he is still in the transcendental world. To think that he was with us then and not with us now is the vision of the spiritually blind. Prabhupada's concluding words of CC. Although, according to MATERIAL VISION His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarswati Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December, 1936, I still consider His Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapu. Vani means words, and vapu means physical presence. Physicial presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but vani continues to exist eternally. THEREFORE WE MUST TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VANI, NOT THE PHYSICAL PRESENCE. Bhagavad-gita for example is the vani of Lord Krishna. Although Krishna was personally present five thousand years ago and is no longer physically present from the materialistic point of view, Bhagavad-gita continues. This vani is not just a way for formally initiated disciples to associate with Srila Prabhupada, but it is a way for anybody and everybody to get initiated into transcendental knowledge directly by Srila Prabhupada. Nobody has any monopoly on being a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, though some would like to infer such. Anybody can be a disciple of Srila Prabhupada by taking his vani through his books, tapes and videos. If one can directly associate with Prabhupada directly even today by taking his vani then what need is there for so much formality of initiation from persons that we only have some marginal appreciation for? If you can be intimately associated with Srila Prabhupada by taking his vani, then you have all the same benefits and advantages of those who had association with his vapu and even more. Vani is more important than vapu. This is the most intimate and important connection to Srila Prabhupada and the formalities of initiation are secondary to that. If initiated disciples can still associate with Prabhupada today through his vani then so can the whole world. If you have Prabhupada's association then you have sufficient guidance to become Krishna consciosness and achieve the goal of life. The current link is Srila Prabhupada and to say otherwise is to say that vani is not a real form of the spiritual master.

I have a theory about where homos come from. A homo is a man with the mentality of a woman. Therefore, my idea is that a homo is a man who was a woman in his last life who was thinking about a man she loved at the time of death and consequently became a man even though she liked being a woman. As such, the woman became a man in her next life even though she really wanted to be a woman. That is why you have a female mentality in a male body. It was all an unfortunate result of a woman thinking about a man at the time of death and taking on a male form even though the real desire of the living entity was to be female. The opposite case is where lesbians come from.

Maybe you have got yourself deceived about this, but the Vedic scriptures speak otherwise. Until further notice I will accept the Vedic wisdom over kali-yugites who don't have a clue other than contempt and spite.

If you are saying that we can go to Gaudiya Math sannyasis and ask them what Prabhupada was saying or doing in ISKCON, then I would have to disagree with you. Prabhupada established a post-samadhi ritvik authority a few weeks before he passed and he had this directive sent out to all the temples in the movement. His directions are perfectly clear. We don't need to go to any Gaudiya Math sannyasi to ask them what Prabhupada wanted for ISKCON. They don't have a clue about that. You people need to quit telling Prabhupada disciples that they need to go to Gaudiya Math or Narayana Maharaaja to find out what Prabhupada wanted. They don't have the answers to that and they all criticized him while he was here, so their opinions mean nothing now.

Slavery was a Vedic principle. Aborigines were taken out of the jungles and given positions in human society in the labor force. That is the kind of slavery that was Vedic. As blacks became civilized and educated into society their slavery became abolished. Prabhupada gave sannyasa and brahmin thread to blacks so don't call him racist! The kind of rape that Prabhupada is referring to is the aggressive behaviour of a man towards a woman. He is not referring to a woman jogging in the park and wanted to get raped and killed! Women like men who are aggressive. I have heard that from many women themselves. Ask some if you don't believe Prabhupada. The Hindu concept of rape is very conservative. Any aggressive move on a woman is considered rape in the Hindu society. What they consider rape is what we consider just good old fashioned seduction. Seducing a women is considered rape in Hindu society, even if the women agrees to have sex. I can see now that the slander of Prabhupada in the form of accusing him of supporting slavery and rape is not being censored in this forum and that is very unfortunate.

There is a trend starting to sweep across the country of granting homosexuals a marriage license by the state for what the state calls a CIVIL UNION. This is a way of giving homosexuals some of the same rights and protections as heterosexual couples. I persoanlly have no opposition to this kind of CIVIL UNION for gays. In todays world they should be allowed the same rights and protections as heterosexuals. I work with a lesbian on my job and we get along fine. Her sexual preferences make no matter to me. What I am against is the move to solemnize gay marriage as a religious union in temples and churches. Getting married at city hall is not the same as gay marriage in a religious context. I don't think that gay relationships could ever be classified as sanctified and holy unless celibacy was the rule and then at that point why would it have to be called gay? There are lots of heterosexual men who love other men in a brotherly kind of way. Their love for each other is very deep and strong. Soldiers on the battlefield have a very deep love and affection for each other. It is when a man's love for another man becomes sexual that it starts to become perverted and sinful. Civil union for gays is inevitable and fair in a civil context. However, the move to make gay relationships out to be holy and sanctified through religious marriages is heresy. It will only create more dissension and conflict in society and is a form of public nuisance. It should not be sanctioned by the religions of the world.

The problem I see with Audaraya-lila's argument is that he is arguing with Bhaktivinode on his(Audarya-lila's) idealized conception of Christianity and not the common Christianity that is prevalent in society. He is trying to make it out that modern Christians are following the pristine, idealized Christianity that has been philosophized by Christian theologians in their most inspired thinking, when in actuality most so-called Christians of today follow a very mundane and philanthropic brand of Christianity that has very little to do with the idealized precepts of Christianity and is based on the bodily concept of life. I am not personally offended by anything he has said. I am just surpised that he would be so foolish as to try and expect that other devotees would be sympathetic to his differences with Bhaktivinode. The hungry should be fed. But philanthropy is philanthropy and religion is religion. Distributing prasadam is not the same as passing out hamburgers. Passing out hamburgers is not religion!!

The problem I see with Audaraya-lila's argument is that he is arguing with Bhaktivinode on his(Audarya-lila's) idealized conception of Christianity and not the common Christianity that is prevalent in society. He is trying to make it out that modern Christians are following the pristine, idealized Christianity that has been philosophized by Christian theologians in their most inspired thinking, when in actuality most so-called Christians of today follow a very mundane and philanthropic brand of Christianity that has very little to do with the idealized precepts of Christianity and is based on the bodily concept of life. I am not personally offended by anything he has said. I am just surpised that he would be so foolish as to try and expect that other devotees would be sympathetic to his differences with Bhaktivinode. The hungry should be fed. But philanthropy is philanthropy and religion is religion. Distributing prasadam is not the same as passing out hamburgers. Passing out hamburgers is not religion!!

Srila Prabhupada has already dealt with the homosex marriage issue and he rejected it. Several of his earliest disciples were homosexuals. Instead of marrying them to each other, Prabhupada married them off to women and tried to get them to act like civilized human beings instead of perverts. Prabhupada has already made the adjustments of adapting Krishna consciousness to western society. He warned his disciples not to make any changes in the standards he established for ISKCON. He said "don't change anything after I am gone". This means; don't add - don't subtract. Just leave the movement alone the way Prabhupada wanted it. Prabhupada said that marrige was meant for making Krishna conscious children. Sex is allowed only for the propagation of children. There can be no Krishna conscious children result from homosex. Therefore it can never be a religious principle to have homosex. It will always be a sinful act of sense gratifiaction. Any so-called acharya who tries to make homosexual relationships into a holy marriage is offending religion itself by trying to make an inherintly sinful activity into a religious tradition. Homosex has existed since the earliest days of history. There is nothing new about having homos in society and having homos become attracted to Krishna. What is new is the proposal by some so-called gurus that homosex be sanctioned in marriage. If it were something that the predecessor acharyas thought was feasible, it would have been established and implemented already. Prabhupada instructed his homosexual disciples that they must immediatly give up homosex. He never agreed that they should regulate their homosex in marriage and it would help them advance in spiritual life. If somebody wants to undermine Prabhupada's policy that homosex must be given up, by saying that homosex can be religious if regulated. Then that is just thier own undoing. I doubt very seriously that the GBC will ever sanction homosex marriages in the ISKCON temples. If some so-called Swami wants to make a reputation for himself by marrying homos, then that would be quite hilarious and I would love to see him ruin his reputation and become the laughing stock of the movement by doing so. Is he ready for the curse that will come upon him for making such an offense? Homosexual marriage is heresy. Prabhupada taught his disciples to not be heretic. It is offensive to all that is good and holy.

I saw that article on Chakra already. I din't read it then and I am not going to read it now.

You can't buy a plane ticket to rasa. You can't take a bus or a train to rasa. The most rasika place in the world is the tongue that chants the Holy Name with love and devotion in a spirit of sacrifice. Millions of dollars - great fortunes have been spent in this effort to buy a plane ticket to rasa by flying off to India, but it cannot be done. It all happens on the tongue. If you can't make it happen there, you aren't going to make it happen by buying a plane ticket to India. If you had realized this already you wouldn't even be asking this question. Chanting is sweet nectar. If you don't have a real experience of that then you must be doing something seriously wrong.

Maybe Audarya-lila das has some criticisms of Bhaktivinode in his own mind, but I am surpised that he is foolish enough to advertise them on the internet. I guess you think it is alright for him to criticise and vilify Bhaktivinode (who is our real guru)and we are supposed to just give ditto and let him go on with his nonsense unchecked. So, I have come to show errors in the preaching of neophyte gurus and now I am the bad guy? What will they think of next?

Maybe Audarya-lila das has some criticisms of Bhaktivinode in his own mind, but I am surpised that he is foolish enough to advertise them on the internet. I guess you think it is alright for him to criticise and vilify Bhaktivinode (who is our real guru)and we are supposed to just give ditto and let him go on with his nonsense unchecked. So, I have come to show errors in the preaching of neophyte gurus and now I am the bad guy? What will they think of next?

[Message deleted - Please keep all postings on the philosophy and avoid personal insults - admin5]

[Message deleted - Please keep all postings on the philosophy and avoid personal insults - admin5]