Amlesh

unfortunately, it is so. Your sense of reasoning is awesome. You have sufficiently elaborated on the abortion issue.

More than that you should be preoccupied with the moral aspect. If abortion is legalized and aided so easily... They aspect of Chastity among will fade away. Before, it was a must in a Hindu marriage that the girl should be a virgin.. today that same thinking is getting dim. Well, the importance of chaste women in a society is really important.. no one can say the contrary.

no. This is Bhagwata Dharma. Each one is part and parcel of god. With or without liberation.. none loses his identity.

Agreed. We are relative.. He is absolute. We are part.. He is whole.

THen still the philosophy expounded by the Bhagwata gets the standing ovation. Each atom combines to make the whole. Sri Krishna, "I am the thread that interconnects all the pearls" One is one when all elements are interconnected.

Agreed. The only thing is that in the Bhagwata Dharma, nothing is really prominent or secondary. The essence of each and every type of individual ranging from the different types of consciousness is thoroughly expounded. The tantric ways et al have themselves with glimpses of God since they are attracted to the external energies more. The Bhagwata Dharma teaches one with all the different facets of God and ultimately unites man to God in a desired relationship. Glimpses of religion can be found in all the particular sect. But at the feet of Sri Krishna, all those boundaries are cleared. What you might see with the Iskonites is not necessarily the total depiction of Bhagwata Dharma. All your assertions on Vaishnavism originated from the behavior of some particular groups and not the essence of the doctrine in itself.

In some way or the other, even I do wag my tongue in a critical way from time to time. Loving one's own path is not the reason for sectarian being... when one's own path does not uphold all other paths globally.. the sectarian conflicts automatically crops up.

Sambya1: You consider yourself to be counted out of the sectarian cluster. How?

My pranaam to this Great Saint.

Will it change the Truth. winston churchill was very against the idea of independence. MG got it. After that, Churchill had some rancor for the Mahatma.. but the Mahatma did not. Let me decide about. I'm independent:rolleyes:. But Dependent of God;). Well of course, had any other measure secured lots of lives. You give me blood, I'll give you freedom. The only difference in the method of Gandhi is that he never felt the need to take out the blood of his opponents. Not only Ahimsa from B.G.. but everything else. No need to be surprised. well, his aim was independence he got it. Secondly, Ahimsa was a weapon that he used... for other war..it might not have worked. But for India's independence it was necessary. you jump too quickly into conclusions. With people like you.. it is easy to set some spark and you can act as the petrol to turn the entire forest into fire. The puppet dances to the tune of the musician without really understanding the time and need.

You used the word "may".

Nothing in this world is one without interconnection. Take an organisation for example.

Hindus are considered to be the most open people when they've to deal with other cultures and outside the barriers. But when there is concern within its premise, you'll find many smaller barriers with in boundaries. From caste, culture, food, language et al. Each one sprouts from misunderstanding/misinterpretation and ego. Nothing else. But how to make people understand is a timeless problem.

Perfect.. and still Ahimsa was used as the weapon. It was the ingenuity of Gandhiji who could see that. That we would have known only if Gandhiji would have failed in his endeavor for independence. By his grace only that many other country could easily ask for independence from the British Empire and not strive much as India did. Mauritius is among one of them. He saw the solution for the simultaneous equation of British Imperialism and Muslim conflict as Ahimsa from the Bhagwad Gita. The source for this crap is a bigger crap that the information itself.

Who would have said India getting its Independence via Non-Violence? Only 1 believed so... Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. I also agree that Non-Violence is not always the best weapon in a war... but the Israelites are not as white as cotton in terms of justice. What bija is trying to tell you might seem really hard to achieve but it is not impossible. First they laugh at you... Then they discuss with you... Then they fight with you... and then You win. (M.K. Gandhi)

Welcome to this Forum. Amlesh

Really cool, Nrsinghadev.

Decide for yourself. Agreed. Agreed also that the Rama Krishna Mission never criticize any other belief system. I respect them a lot for that. Isconites have made many self created rules. Me also Nope.. just some English problem. I'm from a French Speaking country. [Pays Francophone] But he did not preach in totality about everything. Everything is revealed only and only when one cannot live without Sri Krishna. Point Bar.

No hatred but pointing to some of the thing I can see. Well, I may discriminate but for sure..I don't despise. I never said the contrary. Agreed, I again never said the contrary. I'm happy to hear about his call. I know many who showed the Puranic way.. and were tremendously successful. Idol worship.. hmmm??? I guess, dear Swami Vivekananda did not know much about Archa Vigraha. He showed a philosophy that neared the Muslim philosophy.. which I'll accept.. since that Philosophy is part of the Upanishad also.. and described in the Gitam as well. He might have spoken according to time and circumstance to show to the westerners that somewhat we are not blind idol worshippers, but the thing is I don't expect the Westerners either to understand Archa Vigraha. I won't plunge into something based on circumstance.. that I'll leave to those Westerners and also to those Indians who's thinking capacity limits itself to the same level as the westerners. I don't understand why craps hate those Murtis, when we know how our Lord is.. His yellow dhoti, peacock feather on his Head, and charismatic smile, Mayurakshi [Lotus eyes] et al. He know him.. Bhaktas try to reciprocate those visions with carvings, paintings, statue, murti, idols and we get to appreciate all that. You people are stuck with no vision at al and even if you want to depict him.. you'll be stuck with that to do next... Nevertheless, let me clear this part... Westerners are against Idol Worship... but you can find these days in many church.. Statues of Jesus Christ and many other saints.. and they worship them. Why buddy? And they've are coming to something that we practiced since the beginning. Not to mention various Bhuddist Positions and statues being prayed. You all divert from the Vedic ways to come back again to that same old tradition. Your cases are hopeless.. you pray to no one. Ok.. To be fair.. we also come stage where we see Krishna in everyone and everything.. The Murti Worship will be given secondary thoughts.. but only when your mind is completely cleansed. I've heard from you many times on Iskcon.. I diverted for the first time on RamaKrishna Mission. I don't see why there is any fuss in all that. Yeah.. I don't go with my thinking.. but His. No... see you don't understand what I meant to say.. Any action should not be tainted with the 3 qualities, even with Goodness. How it is accomplished... you secret only Krishna reveals. Before reading the Gita, I did not know.. what is a Vaishnava. After reading the Gita also, I did not know.. what is a Vaishnava. It was very after that I came to know that there are many organisations and Group thinking. I should say, I was protected since a child against all those Groups and orgs. When I first touched the Gita... I was completely unbias. I never really came from any school of thought. The Gita was scrutinised really well and I can say.. no higher authority is there and will be there that can produce such a Marvellous teaching.. and none will be there. Many came after Krishna.. but none could give a teaching as complete as the Gita. Hahahahahaha.. funny. Did you know that... The Gita's text teaches according to one's nature of being.. but there is one central teaching whose meaning never gets altered. That is to be known in parallel with the variable text. And that meaning is equal to all.. that from the barber..to the fisherman.. till the politician et al.. sees it with no difference... but few gets that Privilege. But don't worry.. for Hari there is no dooms day.. he sees you green always.. if not this birth, then the next...

What Raghu outlined is rational thinking. Thinking good and doing good is not enough...Your science should teach you also the deep rooted meaning of what perfect action is. Sometimes back.. I went to an Ashrama of Sri RamaKrishna Mission... I spent some times there and I got to hear from one of Swami there about compassion and one of their previous acharya's benevolent attitude of how he gave food and clothing to a distressed fellow near a mandir. And that action is to be considered great. And That was all in all. However, I should say, I agree with the good intention of those swamis.. but since they don't hear much about what Krishna says in totality, their action is still bounded by the material mode of Goodness and hence still Karmic.. pertaining to action and reaction. What they might have thought is good might not be necessarily good.. for example the same beggar who received some money or food could have been a terrorist from an organisation, collecting money for this and that. Krishna teaches.. well he is the only one to do that..the secret of perfect action...don't worry few knows that... don't pinpoint Iskcon.. they themselves don't know that secret with perfection...that's why you can see stupidity from time to time from their part also. The RamaKrishna mission like many other schools have their thinking and saying about the Gita... but like Iskcon and the rest.. not in detail.

Agreed.. In the pure spiritual sense. There is no Evil. But in the Karmic sense, it is. He is made to so-called pay for his Deeds till the end of Kalyuga.

Of course not.. the duty of the Ksatriya should prime. The inability to sense all that, the missing measures for defense and also not strengthening the boundaries are the sins incurred by the Government officials. All that have been spoken in the Gita. In truth, what is happening today.. invading Iraq for their so-called freedom with the Hidden Agenda of OIL, the Same for Afganistan.. prior to September 11, nothing wrong was seen, but after than only Evil... It is a known fact that, more suffering was there after the war, but I'll also agree that a reform was needed on those countries.. but not when some ulterior motives of selfishness is shining in the mind. War, not war, Ahimsa, Himsa are only measures which cannot be really categorized as good or bad.. but the intention prior to waging those wars can certainly be categorized as such.

What else should I expect from you Kaisersose?

The Bhagwatam.

Yes Jeffster, and also not forgetting the Vietnamese War... they say they are fighting evil but it in the end their own intention were evil. There is a big difference in one's thinking of this being Good and what Good is actually. In truth, many organisation do hold some genuine people with their good intention but without having really elevated from the material mode of goodness.Many times, when opportunity came in front of me, I sat and listened to many discourses from the Head of many religious organisation... saying what we do is great works like helping poor and contributing here and there and which I consider worst, guiding people. However, without accepting the Lord as the all and all and without fixing our mind and consciousness with the Supreme and without overcoming the 3 modes of material nature, any job undertaken, how much Good intent it might contain.. is in reality full of errors.. its consequences will contain atleast some dark Spot. That's why Krishna smiled in the beginning of the Bhagwad Gita while listening to Arjuna and his words of wisdom.. Krishna said you are mourning for things which are not worthy and also outlining moral values that is seemingly wise but in reality without substance. The wise fixes his Mind with the one who is PERFECTION incarnate that is KRSNA and all his moves is in accordance with KRSNA and hence not affected by any ulterior motives with his actions.