Christ in Vedas

[Guest guest]

Personally, whether Jesus did exist or not, and whether or not he would find Vaishnavism agreeable or not, has no relevance at all for me. Vedas are apaurusheya - this is an axiom which Vedaantists accept. Every proof begins with a given, and Vedaanta is no exception. Consequently Vedas do not require Jesus' approval or the approval of Christians for their authority.

 

I really think that all of this speculation about Christianity just feeds into the religious insecurity of Christian converts into the Gaudiya Vaishnava umbrella.

[Myra 0]

 

Hello everyone,

 

I have been here for quite sometime. I find this site very interesting and very informative. In this forum, I have given a chance to understand and appreciate more other religions especially the HK community.

 

I am a Christian, but I don't believe that Christians are the only sons and daughters of God, and far more to believe that only Hindu's or HK or other communities is the best in the eyes of God. I believe that God's Love and mercy is equal to all. I believe religion is dependent solely to an Individual. Religion is more personal to me rather than collective. I believe it is one's person very closed, intimate, loving, personal connection to God. One may consider Him as his/her bestfriend, counselor, saviour, guide, parent, brother, teacher...etc.

 

I was raised in a very strict community, where it was taught that non Christian are non-believers. I can't deny that fact, that's why I understand other fanatic christians to push their belief to others. I think it is also true to other communities too. However, through God's mercy i was able to meet other individuals that don't have the same belief as mine, but still, I can see the presence of God in them.

 

I believed that everyone of us is called according to our purpose in life. Each one of us has been given a free will on how to use the gifts of God. Most of all, each one of us has been given the measure of faith and wisdom to comprehend God.

 

Based on my observation in this forum, many of you tend to generalized Christians as the antagonist side and and so as Christians to "Hindu" or other communities. If we continue to be like this, pushing each other's belief, then everyone's dream of peace is very far to achieved. Disproving the Bible or Quran or Vedas is not a nice strategy to convince others of our personal encounter with God, instead it will continue to spark the the lit of misunderstanding and superiority between communities. This is especially true if we just copy and paste other's (secondary source or tertiary source not the Primary source of data) findings about these scriptures. They may not under the Consciousness of God while they are researching these claims.

 

Religious tolerance is necessary today. Most of the problems in our modern world is caused by religious fanaticism. One of the reasons for religious fanaticism is ignorance. Since we do not know about other religion fully, we often show our animosity in holding the claims to the truth of one religion as superior to other religion.

 

Christianity, Muslim, Hindu, HK needs to change a lot as far as claims to religious superiority is concerned. In India, for example, why after 2000 years of Christian presence, christians are still only a minority? Or Hare krishna for example or Hinduism, after your claim of Vedas presence for almost 5000 years why you are still a minority? It is because we have not accepted the culture and religiosity of the soil. We have failed to accept it because we feel superior that our claims to the truth are superior, and our God is superior…

 

Today people say that Christianity has changed its rigorous position regarding other religions, and, it accepts the claims to the truth of other religions. What made the Church change? The pressure from outside is so great that the Church cannot but change its position. Therefore, we need to accept the truth claims of other religion (which is nice); we see goodness in other religion also… But even in this position, most of the Christian communities show superiority, and calling others anonymous Christians and labeling their unique claims to truth as Christian. The reason is that they have not accepted and do not respect other religions fully.

 

I have been reading and studying the theology of visions in Mahabharata and the Bible in my small initiative to show respect for the Hindu religion. I pray that it may lead me to live and love the values of Christ in your Indian soil with mutual understanding and cooperation, respect and tolerance. However, it is very disappointing the way people express their belief in this forum, MOSt of you is not of help to those individuals like me who wanted to understand and know more about the other face/characteristics of our ONE GOD, which has been worshipped in different forms through our unique encounter with Him.

 

God Bless,

Myra

 

[anadi 0]

 

I would like to hear authoritative comments from learned vedic scholars here:

 

 

 

 

"Over the course of time, varieties of books were written, inspired by the

ideals enunciated in that body of literature. They were widely circulated

and thus gained broad popularity. In these books, not only

do we find gradations of thought , distinguishing characteristics

and contrasting views, but also we observe mutual exclusivity, polarization

of doctrine, and speculative philosophy . As a result, there

have been upheavals and calamities in the religious domain, and

these continue to the present day.

 

Under such precarious circumstances, the original Supreme

Lord, SvayaM BhagavAn, who is the Absolute Truth, appeared approximately

500 years ago in the foremost of the seven holy places,

SridhAma-MAyApura within Navadvipa dhama, to deliver the conditioned

living beings.

 

At that time the Lord specifically empowered some of His beloved associates to compile voluminous books, which contain the true purport and essence of all SAstras.

Through the medium of this literature, the Lord desired to invest bhakti,

which is the root of divya-jnana (transcendental knowledge),

within the hearts of all people.

Sri RUpa and SanAtana GosvAmis were among the most elevated

and confidential associates of Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu, and Srila

Jiva GosvAmi was so dear to Sri RUpa and SanAtana that he was

practically their identical manifestation.

Extracting the essence of all the SAstras , SrIla Jiva GosvAmi composed the Sat-sandarbhas

and other books in Sanskrit. Through this effort, SvayaM

BhagavAn manifested His confidential desire to enact His lilA of delivering the jivas.

Some people, who are incapable of ascertaining the true meaning of the SAstras , are compelled to interpret them according to

their relative understanding."

 

From introduction to jaiva dharma

[theist 1]

 

However, it is very disappointing the way people express their belief in this forum, MOSt of you is not of help to those individuals like me who wanted to understand and know more about the other face/characteristics of our ONE GOD, which has been worshipped in different forms through our unique encounter with Him.

 

God Bless,

Myra

 

 

I understand what you are saying Myra. This forum has become a real hodge podge of different beliefs. Where common ground could be found and differences respectfully allowed and discussed in a mature manner (the intent of the one who established this forum) we have made it quite the opposite.

 

We often talk about the nonsectarian nature of God and His truths but don't as often put that into practice in our relations with other people.

 

But I have faith that the Lord in your heart will lead you still to that wider view of Himself that you rightly desire.

 

I hope I am not too far behind on the same path.

 

Hare Krsna/God bless,

theist

 

[Guest guest]

Myra: "However, it is very disappointing the way people express their belief in this forum, MOSt of you is not of help to those individuals like me who wanted to understand and know more about the other face/characteristics of our ONE GOD, which has been worshipped in different forms through our unique encounter with Him."

 

God Bless,

Myra

 

 

could you please say which posters are like this and give examples of what they have said. they are most likely not expressing the views most members.

[Guest guest]

 

i disagree with just about everything you said,

 

does that make me disrespectfull to you ?

does my viewpoint somehow become Bad or inappropriate

because it conflicts with your vision ?

 

you seem to be doin exactly what you are complaining about

others doing, pushing an agenda(your superior and

openminded heart) and dismissing the ones you disagree

with as being closed minded or immovable.

 

then you say that christian churhc's have changed in their

opinion of other religions, not so say I,

in fact a good case can be made in the exact opposite

view, that christian churhc's have become more intractable and more abusive to other faiths,especially hinduism, we only have to look at someone like chief

justice moore from alabama, the ten commandments guy,

in court when he argued for his monument

he was asked what about other faiths like hinduism,

does the monument seem acceptable to their faith,

he replied He didn't think hinduism WAS a religion.

 

or we can look at the catholic church and their numerous attempts all over europe recently to discredit and actually ban hindu faiths from even existing, in the U.S. whenever their is a street procession of a religious nature by Hindus

there is usually a contingent of Christians with signs

calling them satanists, devils etc, and chanting slogans

at them to accept christ or go to hell.

 

In Israel, the hindu community has been subjected to harrassment, violence, car bombs, and all sorts of

attempts to get them to leave, this is done

by the religious minded rabbinical communities

with influence in the government, who i turn turn a blind

eye to these illegal deeds.

 

the fact is that maybe some Christians have an open minded vision, but those are the ones who always have had

that,unitarians,episcopalians, and other "liberal"

church's.

 

anyway, just because a historical perspective doesn't

give credence to your belief system doesn't give

you the moral high ground to dismiss it as prejudiced,

and divisive, rather any knowledge that shines light

on "truth" should be welcomed, whether or not it

gives authenticity to your belief or not,

the honest person will let the chips fall where they may, and deal with reality from and openminded truth

seeking view, which you seem to be championing.

[anadi 0]

 

Under such precarious circumstances, the original Supreme

Lord, SvayaM BhagavAn, who is the Absolute Truth , appeared as Sri Caitanya approximately

500 years ago in the foremost of the seven holy places,

SridhAma-MAyApura within Navadvipa dhama, to deliver the conditioned

living beings.

 

 

 

Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu’s unique quality is that He is merciful

even to the most fallen people, making them eligible for His

highest teachings . Such mercy was not bestowed by any other

avatAra. Therefore, Srila RUpa GosvAmi has glorified Sri Caitanya MahAprabhu

in very meaningful words in his drama, Vidagdha mAdhava

(1.2):

May Sri Caitanya, who is resplendent with an effulgence more glorious than gold,

be ever manifest in the core of our hearts. Out of His causeless mercy, He has appeared in

the age of Kali to bestow upon the world the wealth of His own

bhakti, the supreme, radiant mellow, ujjvala-rasa, the most confidential

mood of service to RAdhA and KRSNa in Their conjugal relationship.

This rare gift has not been given for an extremely long time.

Human beings who receive this gift can very easily

become free forever from the bondage of illusory world, and by great fortune

receive kRSNa-prema ( divine pure love for The Most Attractive One ).

[theist 1]

just to prove her point.

[Guest guest]

You call a man who divided history literally into two equal halves a myth. The Whole World follows the B.C.( Before Christ), A.D. calendar. If Jesus is a myth, then everything we learn about in history is a myth, the dates and events are a myth, the people are a myth, the world we live in is a myth. You and I are a myth.Nothing really exists and we're probably living in something like the Matrix. Actually a lot of Biblical prophecy is coming true these days and I think it's wrong on the part of Christians who say all sorts of things against Hinduism because I strongly believe that the Truth about Jesus is in the Ancient Hindu Scriptures such as the Vedas, Puranas etc. The later scriptures of Hinduism, such as the Mahabharatha, Ramayana are merely story books and the Bhagvadgita to me falls along the lines of Proverbs and Sirach in the Bible. I belive Truth is One, Truth is Exclusive, Truth is Absolute. Derivatives of the Truth may be many, but Truth is One. Satya Meva Jayat Hai (Truth Alone Triumphs)

[Guest guest]

Myra, In the Old Testament the Hebrew name for God is Yahweh, but the Jews did not address God by this name, because it was considered to be the personal name of God.So, instead they called Him Lord, which is the same as God, hence in the New Testament when Jesus is refered to as Lord most of the time.

[Guest guest]

actually Yahweh was a name of a specific diety,

the most common name for God was elohim,

whcih actually is plural.

[Guest guest]

hey slow down there,

 

don't take it personally, a child may

be upset when he finds out Santa Claus is

a myth, still he doesn't claim therefore

christmas is a myth, the world is a myth,

reality is a myth etc.

 

this attitude of demanding that any scholarship

in religion be relagated to the trash bin

will only lead to future problems, the

same thing could be said about what the Jews felt

at the time of the birth of Christianity,

they would feel that their beleifs were being attacked,

by another set of "truths".

 

so best to be honest with yourself, that means

since you were not alive until a short while ago,

ancient history is not testable as factual, we can only

learn of it's "truth" by sorting through ALL the evidence,

if we reject that which contradicts our current belief,

only because it does that, the only loss

is truth.

[theist 1]

Many consider the words of the Acaryas to be superior to that of some mundane academics. Take your pick.

 

 

[Guest guest]

so basically your conclusion is what ?

 

you know better ?

 

it's this type of thinking that leads nowhere,

fast.

 

"It doesn't conclude that I am correct, therefore

I reject it".

 

Is that what you are trying to preach ?

 

Is it better to learn opposing views on a subject,

or is it better to claim moral superiority over

any and all views that put yours into question ?

 

which will leave you a better more informed person ?

 

the attitude of some that they know all,see all,

and have the divine mandate to teach all,

and then dismiss what they haven't yet learned

as beneath them is nothing more then self sabatouge,

rule by ego, and not in the spirit of the true

seeker .

 

those who wish to promote themselves as the perfect

divine seer and authority over everyone else,

ultimately come into contact with the true situation,

they are not.

 

The actual authority does not seek to promote his own

vision as supreme, he is always on gaurd against self deception that tells him "I am enlightened and perfected",

He knows that there is always more to learn,a higher

consciousness to attain, and is always seeing everything

and everyone as a conduit of the divine, humbly knowing

that the truth is that God alone knows all,and we

are best served when we see God's presence

at all times,and ourselves as capable of mistakes.

[theist 1]

here is a mirror shiva.

 

Let's see should I pay more attention to the words of Srila Prabhupada or shiva? Hmmm...Now is that such a hard question? I think not.

[anadi 0]

Quote of the Day

 

--

vedAntAH pratipAdayanti mukhato no cet tataH kiM mama

manyante bata zAstra-garta-patitA dustarkiNaH kiM tataH |

no ced bhAgavatAnubhUti-padavIM yAtas tataH kiM mama

svAtmA vajra-sahasra-biddha iva na spandeta vRndAvanAt ||

 

The Upanishads never directly mention it, so what?

What do I care for those quibblers who have fallen into the deep well of the scriptures?

What do I care for those who haven't entered into an understanding of the Bhagavata's secrets?

My mind will not be diverted from Vrindavan for an instant,

even if you throw a thousand thunderbolts at it!!

 

--- Vrindavana Mahimamrita, 1.6

 

[livingentity 0]

Another one of those no-brainer questions!!

 

Let's see should I pay more attention to the words of Srila Prabhupada or shiva?

 

 

<font color="darkorange">Srila Prabhupada ki jai!

Srila Prabhupada ki jai!

Srila Prabhupada ki jai!</font color>

<font color="blue">Hare Krsna!</font color>

[Guest guest]

"I really think that all of this speculation about Christianity just feeds into the religious insecurity of Christian converts into the Gaudiya Vaishnava umbrella. "

 

yes, because we want to know if we have found another religious fanaticism or something new

 

and the words of the acharyas on the other religions say that it is something new

[Guest guest]

 

that is not the point, the point is ,

is it better to learn other points of view

or to remain ignorant of them ?

 

whether or not jesus is a myth or not is not

the point, your attitude which is that

"if it isn't my belief i don't consider it

worth learning" leaves you with a deficit

of information,

In Jaiva Dharma, Bhaktivinode goes into

a deep philosophical debate with muslim

scholars, would he be able to do that

if he was ignorant of their philosophy ?

 

the same principle applies, your spirit

of rejection of learning as beneath your

superior state will only limit your ability

to communicate to others.

 

 

[Guest guest]

How exactly did Jesus "divide history" into two halves? I'm not saying he is or is not a myth, but let's argue responsibly here. The Christian calendar was not the invention of Jesus, but rather of his followers several generations removed. It wasn't long before even they were persecuting others in the name of their religion - should we attribute those acts also to jesus? Come on.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

"I really think that all of this speculation about Christianity just feeds into the religious insecurity of Christian converts into the Gaudiya Vaishnava umbrella. "

 

yes, because we want to know if we have found another religious fanaticism or something new

 

and the words of the acharyas on the other religions say that it is something new

 

 

 

I don't think I follow this.

[theist 1]

Obvious a view of someone who doesn't understand that Vaisnavism is not something that one can convert to.

 

Vaisnavism is the souls natural and healthy response to its own existence in relation to the existence of the Supreme Person.

[Myra 0]

Hello Guest,

 

Hope you are fine today.

 

I wish I could but I don't want to be too personal here. Hope you understand my point. No name calling.

 

God Bless!

 

Myra

[Guest guest]

Be that as it may, the Jesus myths which some "Vaishnavas" manufacture, saying that he is Krishna and so on, are just fabrications of your imagination with no evidence to back them up.

 

 

[theist 1]

all I need. Anonymous guests wants to overide Prabhupada. Like someone will accept you over him.