Can someone explain the whole Hindu/Muslim riots?

[Gauracandra]

The last few days (weeks?) there have been riots between Hindus and Muslims, with hundreds killed. What exactly is the history behind this building a Rama temple? I'm very sketchy on the details, but basically as I understand it, there is a group of Hindus who want to build a Rama temple on top of a mosque (and so the mosque needs to be torn down). Why right at that spot? Is there proof that this was a very sacred spot? And who will design the Rama temple? Basically who is behind this plan? Anyone with the details?

[livingentity]

I don't really know much about this particular situation but my understanding is that when the Muslims invaders came into India eons ago they tore down Hindu temples and built mosques on those spots. Could it be some kind of on-going revenge thing?

 

Prabhupada tells of getting caught in an Hindu-Muslim riot when he was a child and trying to get home.

 

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

The last few days (weeks?) there have been riots between Hindus and Muslims, with hundreds killed. What exactly is the history behind this building a Rama temple? I'm very sketchy on the details, but basically as I understand it, there is a group of Hindus who want to build a Rama temple on top of a mosque (and so the mosque needs to be torn down). Why right at that spot? Is there proof that this was a very sacred spot? And who will design the Rama temple? Basically who is behind this plan? Anyone with the details?

 

[bhaktajoy]

Very unfortunate as we witness the fall of spiritual knowledge and rise of irreligion and poverty.

Ayodhya is the birthplace of Lord Rama(12,000 years ago?) but Muslims built Babari mosque there,they consider it their holy place too.In 1993 all India riot broke out(tension was high in Mumbai)and 3000 people were killed.It all started when Hindus demolished the mosque forcefully with iron rods and other tools.Outrage is still there in hearts of people in general(such foolishness!)and it flared up again when some terrorist set up a train on fire which was carrying Hindus(of VHP party they are radical Hindus and trying to built temple on the same spot.Some suggestions were made to built temple and mosque side by side but to no avail).

I was watching CNN this morning...a Hindu was saying they(muslims)should reap what they sow.I didn't agree coz we are not God and controlling others destiny is not our job.Those who try will face the same destiny themselves,law of karma is infallible.

This is really age of Kali...more than 400 millions live in India under poverty line they can't even afford one time meal.So this is the present situation...India was once called the land of Gold and ocean of milk...see now what it has become,All spiritual knowledge is getting lost and people are becoming more and more selfish.

 

Lets pray for welfare of all who live on this planet.

HARIBOL!

GOD BLESS ALL

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 03-04-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 03-04-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 03-04-2002).]

[bhaktajoy]

VHP(Vishva Hindu Parishad) means "World Hindu federation"...

They are doing politics in God's name.On Valentines day they broke shops and violence is all they know.Right now a 100 day yajna(sacrifice)is going on in Ayodhya and they say they will not stop with the plans of building a temple there.

[gHari]

The proposed temple site is thought to be the birthplace of Lord Ramacandra. I think the animosity towards the Muslim invaders, offenders of Hinduism, just surfaces when given such a reason.

[gHari]

From India Times:

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2002

HOPAL: Asserting that courts had no right to decide the birthplace of Lord Ram, VHP International General Secretary Praveen Togadia said Tuesday that "come what may", the construction of the temple at Ayodhya will begin from March 15.

 

Addressing a press conference here, Togadia said it was a matter of faith for Hindus that Lord Ram was born at Ayodhya just as it was a matter of faith for the Christians that Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem.

 

He said, "Just as no court can give ruling on whether Christ was born in Bethlehem or not, no court in the country can decide whether Lord Ram was born in Ayodhya or not.

 

"The jehadi mentality that led Babar to destroy the Ram temple at Ayodhya more than 400 years ago was the same mentality that led to partition of the country in 1947, attack on the World Trade Center at New York on September 11 last year and attack on Parliament on December 13, 2001," he said.

 

He said the Centre had been given time till March 12 to hand over the undisputed land in Ayodhya to the VHP.

 

Togadia refused to comment on RSS spokesman M G Vaidya's statement on Monday at Nagpur that a mosque could be built near the proposed Ram temple at Ayodhya.

 

"I have read Vaidya's statement in newspapers, but I do not want to comment on it," he said.

 

The VHP leader said a letter had been written to Congress President Sonia Gandhi by Swami Chinmayananda on behalf of the VHP, urging her to listen to the issue of the Ram Temple, "something that concerns the feelings of crores of Hindus all over the country."

 

She has, however, failed to meet so far, he lamented.

 

He said though the construction of the Ram Temple at Ayodhya would surely begin on March 15, the whole process was likely to take at least five years.

 

Togadia said, "Everyone including the PM had been given time till March 12 to decide on whose side they are."

 

The matter relating to the undisputed land at Ayodhya was now between the central government and the VHP, he said adding that "the Uttar Pradesh government has got nothing to do with this."

 

He claimed that Shankaracharyas of all the four peeths were with the VHP on the issue of temple construction.

 

[gHari]

From HINDUSTAN TIMES

A Brief History: What Is The Disputed Area?

 

This Is The Site Where The Babri Masjid Once Stood. This Is Part Of The 67 Acres Of Land That The Central Government Acquired Following The Demolition Of The Masjid. A Title Suit Over Ownership Of This Land Is Pending Before The Allahabad High Court And As Of Now, The Vhp Has No Plans To Touch This Land. The Sanctum Sanctorum Of The Proposed Ram Mandir, However, Falls In This Disputed Area.

WHAT IS THE UNDISPUTED AREA?

 

Roughly 43 acres of the 67 acres of land that the Centre acquired belongs to the Ram Janmabhoomi Trust. This is the undisputed land, a fact acknowledged even by the Supreme Court in its ruling in Oct 1994. It is here that the VHP wants to start moving pillars for the proposed mandir from March 15. It also wants the Centre to hand back this land to the Trust.

 

CAN THE GOVERNMENT HAND OVER THE ACQUIRED LAND TO V.H.P.?

 

The VHP says yes but the Babri Masjid Action Committee says until the Allahabad high court decides on the title suit of the disputed site, no part of the acquired land can be handed to any party. The Prime Minister, on his part, has sought legal opinion on the matter.

 

WHY DOES V.H.P. WANT TO START OFFERING OF PRAYERS?

 

Starting worship would suggest that temple construction would begin soon. Since it has committed itself to the March 15 deadline, the VHP will lose face if worship doesn’t begin.

 

1528: The Babri Masjid is built. Hindus claim the mosque has come up on a land where a Ram temple once stood.

 

Dec 22-23, 1949: An idol of Ram installed inside the mosque at night. The Government locks the gates of the mosque and proclaims the premises as a disputed area.

 

Dec 18, 1961: Sunni Central Wakf Board files suit seeking removal of the Ram idols from the mosque.

 

Feb 1, 1986: Faizabad district judge orders opening of the locks for worship of the Ram idols by Hindus.

 

May 12, 1986: Sunni Central Wakf Board challenges the district judge’s order.

 

Dec 11, 1987: The UP Government applies to the Allahabad High Court that hearing on the two petitions be deferred.

 

Dec 6, 1992: Babri masjid demolished.

 

Jan 7, 1993: The Centre acquires 67 acres of land around the demolished mosque.

 

[Tarun]

Explain? Very Simple:

God is Great, we r small,

Pride comes be4 the Fall. (usually late Summer as in 9/11)

Another viewpoint: Divide & Rule

Hindu/Muslim conflict as well as so many others worldwide serve whom?

Gunrunners, oil tycoons, namely... need I say more?

Similarly, Israeli/Palestinian thing will continue as long as they, excuse me, THEY can keep it going.

The name of the game is DUALITY plain & simple. Simple enough?

Kaliyuga means what?

1) Get media control

2) Create/present 2 lies

3) Keep your praja = citizens = people busy arguing over which lie is true.

4) Then call it 'Advanced Civilization' or "Hi-Tech Progress".

5) Substantiate it by showing how other countries are primitive.

6) Mix in a few jokes.

7) Distract your praja's attention by staging terrorist acts.

8) Quickly blame someone else.

And this is only THIS PARTICULAR Kaliyuga's beginning.

Wait around. U'll SOON see & hear what u could neVer imaGINE.

[gHari]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1844000/1844930.stm

[mahak]

I like the story about the big hindu and his two sons who drove a truck into their hindu bredren to save their townsfolks (muslims) from danger. Hindus and muslims live in peace where dictates of the age of quarrel, chaos, and confusion are set aside.

 

The village of this wonderful story is Ram-Raheem, which is Rama, and Allah simultaneously. The binding force in thius community is poverty, they are all too busy to be sweating someone elses warfare.

 

One devoted to Rama (who appeared in Ayodhya approximately 800,000 years ago) and one devoted to Allah will never seek to destroy one another, for they are fully absorbed in their agreement on the purpose of life, and do not cause harm to others similarly devoted to the same one god.

 

Ayodhya is also not being fought over, for the whole place was taken to the realm of Rama upon His disappearance from this sad world. The battle folks are fighting over dirt and scum water, and not much different than the maggots trying to control the soft portion of stool by throwing their enemies to the hard and stale portions of the same stool pile.

 

sorry if i ruined your appetite by my colorful commentary, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa.

[Tarun]

Main thing is NOT to create new vikarma for which we'll have to suffer viphalam later on down the pike.

Otherwise, Hindus & Muslims will have to switch places/births in their next life.

[mahak]

Yeah, tarun, this is so. One becomes who they hate, better to be as neutral as possible to prevent this endless cycle of being israeli/palestinian, over and over, with the same result.

 

give up all these bogus religions and surrender to God, this is the message.

[sha]

http://messages.indiainfo.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000336.html

Idiot & Stupid Hindus; Read Who is Responsible?

 

 

[gHari]

Hopefully my master will forgive my poetic licence in stealing His identity to rain some hell upon that heathen Muslim miscreant.

 

Thank you for presenting that link. These dogs need to be whipped.

 

The One and Only God,

 

Krishna

[abhi_the_great]

Originally posted by sha:

http://messages.indiainfo.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000336.html

Idiot & Stupid Hindus; Read Who is Responsible?

 

sha, before Godhra was Dheodha station. The ISI (pakistani intelligence) Lieutenant, Major Aslam, had clearly told their agent who was a stall attendant at Dheodha to pour a poisonous substance in the tea which they served the Karsevaks coming by the Sabarmati train. They were aware of the exact compartment number and so he had set his stall at the right place. When the karsevaks got this information before-hand they ill-treated the Muslim owner of the stall. Afterwards when the train reached the next station the karsevaks were peacefully chanting Lord Ram's names. But the ISI had different plans. The plan was to kill the Karsevaks, brutally if they are still alive. According to their nefarious plans the Muslims burnt alive the servants of Ram. Inbetween they forced a Hindu girl who was forcefully dressed like a Muslim into the same compartment.

 

Doesn't this story sound interesting too?? If we sincerely try we can make it sound more journalistic and give bogus names and say they were direct witnesses.

 

Idiot & Stupid Hindus: sha, pls take a while to look into the mirror. Don't get too fussy abt it.

 

 

Gaurachnadra, India was always a Vedic society which was hogwashed by the muslim invaders, whose idea was to always convert all the invaded countries into Islam. In India they did not succeed a 100%. Bcos the followers of the Vedas were always ahead in philosophy and faith of their Lord.

 

The fanatic Muslim rulers were however able to demolish many temples and dieties. They were also a threat to the spread of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. They threatened many times to kill our great acaryas like Rasakinanda and others.

 

Today after so many years the Hindus want a few of (the many 10,000s of) their own temples back. Ayodhya, Mathura and Varanasi are the 3 main ones which the Hindus are demanding back. All these temples were previously desecrated by the Muslim rulers and a mosque built on top.

 

Ayodhya is Rama Janmabhoomi and Mathura is Krishna Janmabhoomi. Varanasi is Lord Shiva's favourite place. It is said that there is a mosque which is standing where the Hindus beleive that Lord Krishna was born. The prison cell of Kamsa's country. A mosque is proudly standing above this underground cell.

 

It is just nasty that the muslims still hold such positions after knowing the importance the Hindus attach with such holy places. Its just sheer defiance. A challenging posture.

 

As I view it, there is no locus standi for the Muslims in such cases. There is no need for a court verdict to take so much time. A mosque shd always be outside the dham.

 

As an ISKCON devotee cd we bare the feelling of Muslims coming over and demolishing our temple and building a mosque above it? It is not a question of secularism, it is like a devastating act for the Devotees of Ram.

 

Hope I cd answer few of your questions.

 

If Hinduism cannot be supported in India, where else can it supported?

 

gHari, a good one there!! But the language used in that board is very divine.

 

Abhi

 

 

[This message has been edited by abhi_the_great (edited 03-18-2002).]

[Tarun]

During spats, Ralph Kramden used to tell his wife:

"You're a regular riot, Alice, a regular riot." Same type?

[Tarun]

Very easy.

When brahmaNas forget how to forgive, and they forget the God's Holy Names' power to purify, Hindus become Muslims.

 

[abhi_the_great]

Originally posted by Tarun:

Very easy.

When brahmaNas forget how to forgive, and they forget the God's Holy Names' power to purify, Hindus become Muslims.

The brahmanas became selfish and the kshatriyas were not having a global perspective of protecting Vedic Religion, but more interested in their own small territories. So, they sided with the Muslims and the Britishers to kill each other(few exceptions were Shivaji, Ranjit Singh etc,).

 

Now the country is ruled by Sudras, the trade unions.

 

A sincere son of Mother India can really not assimilate this fall from glory. We need to fight our way back up, and this is only possible by reviving the Brahmanical culture.

 

abhi

 

[gHari]

It seems Prabhupada would agree with Tarun:

Indian man: I am very much thankful to you for giving this divine knowledge to our crippled people, who are suffering in this material world. But... And I'm also convinced by this of kIrtana. I am somewhat surprised and I feel very much grateful about... Or the world, it is not grateful for KRSNa consciousness(?). And there were many KRSNa devotees in that part of the world which is now called Bangaladesh. And millions of KRSNa devotees, all sons of KRSNa, are being butchered by the..., and butcher of their family or... I'm talking about west Pakistan. What is your answer to this sort of the genocide or greatest man-made disaster.

PrabhupAda: That is going on since the creation. How can you stop it? The history repeats itself. This butchering, this attack by one country by another or by one king to another, that is going on. This is the nature; therefore it is called duHkhAlayam azAzvatam [bg. 8.15]. This is a place simply for suffering. Therefore everyone's business is how to get out of it. You cannot stop what is going on in Bangaladesh. It may be in Bangaladesh or it may be in Vietnam or it may be in some other places--this is nature's law; it will go on. You cannot stop it. The best thing is to get out of the scene. That is your business. You cannot stop it. Even if you show sympathy, that is useless. Because this is the way of nature. YadA yadA hi dharmasya glAnir bhavati bhArata [bg. 4.7]. ParitrANAya sa... vinAzAya ca duSkRtAm. The vinAza is there. The two things are going on: maintenance and dissolution and creation. So you cannot stop the process. And in the Bhagavad-gItA it is said, yaM hi na vyathayanty ete puruSaM puruSarSabha. All these ephemeral things which come and go, if one is not disturbed by all these things, then he is the right candidate for liberation.

Indian man: They seem the greater criminal who is now telling these people there...

PrabhupAda: Well, criminal is criminal, greater or smaller. Just like in India it is said that if you have stolen a khira, a cucumber, or you have stolen a hIrA, a diamond, you are equally punishable.

Indian man: Do you think those who are butcher are all criminals?

PrabhupAda: Huh?

Indian man: Those who are butcher, they are all criminals?

PrabhupAda: They may not be criminals, but what is your idea?

Indian man: I want to hear the solution from you to this disastrous situation in the present material world.

PrabhupAda: So what way you want?

Indian man: No, I don't know. I want from you.

PrabhupAda: So our solution is that chant Hare KRSNa.

 

[Tarun]

Only RAm-rAjya can save India & its Vedik Culture.

Ayodhya-pati ki jaya! RAmacandra BhagavAn ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaur premanande hariharibol!

[Tarun]

One of the reasons AcyutAnanda SwAmI retired from active KC preaching is he was able to easily defeat anyone he met, specially in India.

Sounds funny, contradictory yet true.

Hindus would protest:

Amerikans cannot become vaiSNav. Westerners cannot become vaiSNav.

Muslims cannot become vaiSNav. Jews cannot become vaiSNav.

Former flesh-eaters, whoremongers cannot become vaiSNav.

And what to speak of Gandhiji's untouchables!!

To which AcyutAnanda SwAmI would reply:

"What is more powerful: HarinAm or vikarma-viphalam?

God's Holy Name or reactions to our past sins?"

End of story.

[gHari]

Old royal map shows Ram Temple:

 

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/250302/detfro01.asp

[abhi_the_great]

Originally posted by Tarun:

One of the reasons AcyutAnanda SwAmI retired from active KC preaching is he was able to easily defeat anyone he met, specially in India.

Sounds funny, contradictory yet true.

 

"What is more powerful: HarinAm or vikarma-viphalam?

God's Holy Name or reactions to our past sins?"

End of story.

Tarunji, I am not clear why this is a reason for retirement. Does not connect!

 

abhi

[gHari]

Eighty-six-year-old Ramanandi Vaishnav Saint Akshay Brahmchari is one person who can turn the tables on the Vishwa Hindu Parishad by debunking the very basis of its claim on the Rama Janma Bhoomi complex in the court of law. He has closely witnessed Ayodhya developments since 1936.

 

More here:

 

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/arcscript/htarchive.asp

[gHari]

Court Sessions Getting into Real Issues Now:

Focus now shifts from documentary evidences to archaeological and historical facts from both sides to prove whether or not it was the birthplace of Rama/it was a mosque or a temple/or a temple was demolished to built Babri mosque by Mir Baqi.

 

Historians and arcahaeologists of international repute are likely to depose before the commission and the special Ayodhya court.

 

Full Story