The Origin of Jiva (jiva-tattva)

shvu · April 27, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>They imagine that if one intends to understand Advaita, one must first read the Upanishads. Otherwise it will not work. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, you are displaying your ignorance. A Vedantic tradition relies on Vedanta. How can one understand a Vedantic philosophy without having knowledge of Vedanta? According to your logic, one can understand Trigonometry without any knowledge of basic geometry.

Inside the head, there is something called a brain. If one starts using it, one can actually begin to understand such things. Perhaps it is time, for you to start doing so. It will be real helpful.

Cheers

Gauracandra · April 27, 2001

In the first posting I made from 'The Strength of Madhvaism' Madhva points out that Advaita provides no basis on which one can prove or disprove anything. If everything is unreal, then there is no basis on which one can stand to make any intelligible argument. Here is a passage that shows that based on this argument, the very Vedas are considered simply part of this grand illusion, and do not exist eternally, contradicting the very statements of the Vedas themselves.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Though Sankara adored the Vedas sincerely and wrote Bhashyas for ten Upanishads, strictly speaking, according to his philosophy, their status is only similar to the song of an ignorant musician. In the first place they are products of Avidya, and so not ‘Anadi’ or unoriginated. According to the poorva-meemamsakas the Vedas are beginningless and eternal. Though Sankara followed them in his epistemological analysis, he could not regard the Vedas as ‘Anadi’ like Brahman. So they are ‘Pourusheya’ according to Advaita. Secondly being products of nescience or Avidya they are Mithya and Badhya. They do not exist in the past, present, or future. They will be sublated and they disappear like rope-serpent at the time of the cognition of Brahman. So the Vedas are unreal and not satya or nitya. Why they should be called Srutis, Why their voice should be regarded as final and valid beyond question, why should they be regarded as superior to even Sakshipratyaksha and sense-observation, how should they be proved to be defectless in comparison with the scriptures composed by Anadi Isvara Himself who is said to be sarvagnya (all knowing) and sastra karta (Author of Sastra) are inexplicable and are not explained either, exhaustively, in the works of Sankara and his school.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gauracandra

April 27, 2001

>> Inside the head, there is something called a brain. If one starts using it, one can actually begin to understand such things.

You have a wrong premise. Sabdha-brahma, or transcendental sound is the only cause of real knowledge. If one is trying to attain transcendental knowledge by employing his fallible senses, this is called indriya-paratantra, the kind of knowledge that jivas may attain through their material senses, and it cannot give one the fruit of yoga. Sabdha-brahma is the cause of the real understanding of all sastras.

Pramana, or evidence is the way to assert the Truth. There are 3 kinds of pramanam:

1. sabdha - transcendental sound.

2. pratyaksa - direct perception, employing fallible senses a nut-like brain.

3. anumana - logic.

As all Vedic lore are pramanam in the form of sabdha-brahma, as they are svatah-siddha-jñana, no other kind of pramanam can be employed to have a transcendental understanding of srutis texts.

Pratyaksa, such as using brain, is merely the knowledge accumulated by material sensitive impressions and only may lead to material conclusions. One may read Vedanta, may write a Sanskrit commentary on it, put a sound name, and some people may also read it and become impressed by it and accept his writer as an Acarya. They will follow him in the path of samsara. Sankara's mayavada as well as any other Vedic or non-Vedic philosophy is not the real path to self-realization. Much more is needed, beginning with guru pada asraya, to take shelter at the lotus feet of a self-realized soul.

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

shvu · April 27, 2001

I am finding it difficult to load this page as it has grown too long. Since others may also be having the same problem, I am continuing this topic on a new thread.

Cheers

August 1, 2006

Some say the Jiva comes from the Tatastha region. While others say that the Jiva came here as a result of falling from the Spiritual World.

theist · August 2, 2006

Some say the Jiva comes from the Tatastha region. While others say that the Jiva came here as a result of falling from the Spiritual World.

I am not convinced of a "region" called tatastha as in a certain geographical setting. I am tatastha in nature

So what is meant by tatastha? A place which is made up of sleeping souls. Is that not what the brahmajyoti is?

Is the tatastha region then a state where the sleeping souls in the Brahman effulgence immediately arise to as they (re)gain or claim their individual natures and just prior to their desiring to be servant of the Enjoyer or the enjoyer themselves and sealing the direction that they will follow? That is my personal belief.

The Brahman effulgence is also the Spiritual world as are all jivas in essence so I have no doubt we came from Spiritual world.

gHari · August 2, 2006

http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/8/83/en

http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/6/160/en

http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/8/152/en

http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/4/44/en

http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/18/126/en

http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/20/108-109/en

August 2, 2006

Theist prabhu,

You ask some good questions. I remember reading on this forum something along the lines of what you have written- "Is the tatastha region then a state where the sleeping souls in the Brahman effulgence immediately arise to as they (re)gain or claim their individual natures and just prior to their desiring to be servant of the Enjoyer or the enjoyer themselves and sealing the direction that they will follow?"

That is pretty much what I read on this forum a few months back but it wasn't clear if the decision making of the jiva (servant of enjoyer or enjoyer) occured within the Brahman effulgence or a separate region called tatastha (I really don't know what that is except that it is contained within the body of Sri Visnu). Depending on what decision the jiva made, his direction would be sealed. It just seemed a little strange because without actually seeing and experiencing Vaikuntha, how can a Jiva make a proper decision. If the Jiva had remembrance of vaikuntha at the time of making the decision, why would he ever choose the material world?

Finally, you say the Brahman effulgence is also the spiritual world. Is that true? Because nobody ever falls from the Spiritual world, be it the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka Vrindavana itself. I'm thinking (speculating) that i must be somwehere between the material and spiritual worlds. What do you think?

I am not convinced of a "region" called tatastha as in a certain geographical setting. I am tatastha in nature

So what is meant by tatastha? A place which is made up of sleeping souls. Is that not what the brahmajyoti is?

Is the tatastha region then a state where the sleeping souls in the Brahman effulgence immediately arise to as they (re)gain or claim their individual natures and just prior to their desiring to be servant of the Enjoyer or the enjoyer themselves and sealing the direction that they will follow? That is my personal belief.

The Brahman effulgence is also the Spiritual world as are all jivas in essence so I have no doubt we came from Spiritual world.

Beggar · August 2, 2006

I am not convinced of a "region" called tatastha as in a certain geographical setting. I am tatastha in nature

So what is meant by tatastha? A place which is made up of sleeping souls. Is that not what the brahmajyoti is?

Is the tatastha region then a state where the sleeping souls in the Brahman effulgence immediately arise to as they (re)gain or claim their individual natures and just prior to their desiring to be servant of the Enjoyer or the enjoyer themselves and sealing the direction that they will follow? That is my personal belief.

The Brahman effulgence is also the Spiritual world as are all jivas in essence so I have no doubt we came from Spiritual world.

The Brahman effulgence is also the Spiritual world as are all jivas in essence so I have no doubt we came from Spiritual world.

This is a great point. And this is wherein all the confusion lies. We keep plodding along trying to understand all these most subtle concepts with the dull and crude English language of the early 21st century. What a daunting task! Consequently most of these threads are mired in devotees arguing with each other over merely semantical points. It's kind of sad when you think about it, but then again it is Kali Yuga. The entire English language is based on duality. In our paradigm and language the tatastha is either a geographical place or it is not a geographical place. And then of course we are concerned as to whether the jiva is from the spiritual world or not from the spiritual world. Black and white, on and off etc. A great language and way of thinking for computer science and all technology but not Gaudiya Vaisnava siddhanta. As Srila Sridhar Maharaja has said, "there is gradation everywhere". We have to deeply ponder this, as we need to ponder Mahaprabhu's concept of acintya bhedaabheda tattva, simultaneous oneness and difference.

theist · August 3, 2006

Theist prabhu,

You ask some good questions. I remember reading on this forum something along the lines of what you have written- "Is the tatastha region then a state where the sleeping souls in the Brahman effulgence immediately arise to as they (re)gain or claim their individual natures and just prior to their desiring to be servant of the Enjoyer or the enjoyer themselves and sealing the direction that they will follow?"

That is pretty much what I read on this forum a few months back but it wasn't clear if the decision making of the jiva (servant of enjoyer or enjoyer) occured within the Brahman effulgence or a separate region called tatastha (I really don't know what that is except that it is contained within the body of Sri Visnu).

That was probably my post you read as I have never met anyone who thought the same way on this issue. I have been bringing it up on forums occasionally since the old VNN days. At first people mockingly laughed and then just ignored it for the last 6 or 7 years. I am very happy to have at long last two souls who are willing to track along with me in philosophical speculation on this. Since this subject it only understandable by those who are freed from the limitations of thinking in terms of space and time we should not think we will come to a conclusion here. But what we can do is learn to look for the answer to come into our awareness through spiritually inspired intuition if the Lord in the heart is pleased to tell us. IOW words we have to each go there to know.

Is tatashta a region or integral to the nature of the individual soul? Maybe an example would be an electron which is both a particle and a wave in that it depends on how we are viewing it.

If the awakening individual souls are viewed collectively then it would be seen as a region from which an individual soul arises. But when looked at closely the whole region is composed of only individual souls who are marginal in nature.

Depending on what decision the jiva made, his direction would be sealed. It just seemed a little strange because without actually seeing and experiencing Vaikuntha, how can a Jiva make a proper decision. If the Jiva had remembrance of vaikuntha at the time of making the decision, why would he ever choose the material world?

I know what you mean, I have wondered the same thing. This is what occured to me. When the soul while lying sleeping in the Brahman has no awareness of himself as individual he IS STILL an individual soul. Krsna knows every sleeping soul. He does not lose track of even one of His living emanations.

But what happens to cause that soul to stir and regain a sense of individuality while in the Brahman. There is no outward object to disturb his slumber. I believe that the soul does that himself by desiring to be. The most primal desire I can think of. The raw desire to be. Purely naked and at the souls most simple state of indiviual awareness.

Someone might call this the origin of the soul but we know this is not true because Krsna had already conceived him and had his eye on him.

Now there is no desire in the Brahman so at this point I believe the soul, just by the desire to be, has left the Brahman effulgence and is now in the region of other souls who have left the Brahman like himself, or the tatastha region. Also I believe this is why this region is said to lay(ly?) next to the Brahman effulgence as a separation between the Spiritual and material worlds.

I think of this as the PERFECTION of free will. Krsna's ways are so incredibly perfect that He not only gives us the choice of what to be but before that has given us the choice to be individual or remain in not being aware of that aspect of ourselves.

Now from this region of tatashta, we, after already having chosen to be, need to choose what we want to be. I don't believe this really entails the need to see into the spiritual sky and material sky and weigh our options. How could we? Just by such a calculation alone would mean we have have already chosen which path we want to follow. The path of "My will Lord and not Your will," not "What will make You pleased Lord but what will please me." That is the path of the soul deciding to be himself the prime enjoyer and not the enjoyed energy of Krsna.

What I believe happens is that form that holy place of free will each soul expresses a desire to serve or be served in some way. Remember the soul has no experience at all of the varieties of individual life experiences. No way then to weigh one against the other trying to decide which way is best to go. It must be almost as primal as the raw desire to be.

Finally, you say the Brahman effulgence is also the spiritual world. Is that true? Because nobody ever falls from the Spiritual world, be it the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka Vrindavana itself. I'm thinking (speculating) that i must be somwehere between the material and spiritual worlds. What do you think?

Well here is a thought in that regard. There is no consideration of past or future time in the Spiritual world that rules over the lives of the inhabitants. So if we did "fall" from Goloka even when we returned we would have no consideration of ever having left. So what fall are we talking about?

Another interesting thought is that just as beings may go from this material variety into the Brahman perhaps they can go from the Spiritual variety into the Brahman also.

Considering a "fall" from Vaikuntha; what does that entail? The spiritual worlds are based on active rasa with Krsna. So to fall away from that rasa would mean the entire spiritual form of cowherd boy or gopi or tree etc. would not be present any longer. Those forms only have their existence in rasa with Krsna.

So if these were to be done away with what would be the nature of the soul but a pencil point of consciousness. That is the Brahman effulgence.

So if the soul fell from Vaikuntha he would by necessity pass through the "formless" Brahman and then tatastha "region" on his way to the material worlds.

Please remember this is not me saying that this is the absolute truth. I am only bring out questions and thoughts for philosophical speculation. All through this we can the illusory influence of time in how I said what I said. I know this. This is my limit on this one. The final understanding needs to be yet realized in a way beyond my present words and thoughts. I have NO desire and will not debate this subject with anyone.

I do however hope people will take the time to express their thoughts on this subject whatever those thoughts may be.

August 3, 2006

Theist,

Gopiparanadhana das has translated the entire Brhadbhagavatmrtam including the commentary of Srila Sanatana Goswami, and in that book he gives detailed descriptions of various worlds.

It describes in detail how some souls emerge from Brahman; and that some of the souls awakening from Brahman (most souls in fact) go towards Vaikuntha. The souls feel an urge to surrender to the Absolute who they dimly realize in their meditation. Then when they reach the gates of Vaikuntha they get "insight" (inner sight) about their own identity and the identity of the Absolute, and develop a mood of submission (prappati / saranagati) that enables them to become eligible to enter Vaikuntha.

If you carefully study the descriptions of the Jnanis, Tapaloka residents and Shiva loka residents, as well as brahma loka residents, which are given in that book Brhadbhagavatmrtam you see how a soul can evolve spriritually: bahunam janmanam ante -- vasudeva sarvam iti.

The idea of a "fall from Goloka" is not discussed anywhere in Brhadbhagavatmrtam by Srila Sanatana Goswami. Maybe because in Bhag. 7.1.34 it has been said (very decisively) that it is impossible for a resident of Vaikuntha to fall away from the Lord's association:

'Maharaja Yudhisthira inquired (about Jai and Vijay): "What kind of great curse could affect

even liberated vishnu-bhaktas, and what sort of person could curse

even the Lord's associates? For unflinching devotees of the Lord to

fall again to this material world is impossible. I cannot believe

this."

Note also that the "four kumaras" were mayavadis. When they cursed Jay and Vijay they had not yet met Narayana and they were in fact said to be "jnanis" by Vyasa. They were not bhaktas. So how could the curse of a monist cause an associate of Narayan to fall down into samsara? The scriptures clearly say this is impossible. It was only when Narayan heard the disturbance at his gateway that he decided to come and see the four kumaras; and the four kumaras only became bhaktas when they smelled the tulasi on the feet of Narayan. It is clear in Bhagavatam -- they were mayavadis when they cursed Narayan's devotees, so how can their curse have any power? Jaya and Vijay came into this world because the Lord wanted to play his lila.

We are not like Jaya and Vijay. We have never been inside Vaikuntha. We have never been in Goloka. We emerged from within the effulgence of Narayana. That effulgence is also rightly called "the spiritual world" -- even though it is only on the margin (tatastha) of Vaikuntha.

theist · August 3, 2006

Guest,

Thank you for your contribution. I have read Bhagavatamrtam, the older Gaudiya matha version. I got a copy of Gopipranranadhana's part one and was blown away. It is very nice. I take it from your post that part two is out so I will have to get a copy.

Eternity is eternity. Room for anything to happen I figure. It is all rather inconceivable to me. We shall see.

theist · August 3, 2006

This is a great point. And this is wherein all the confusion lies. We keep plodding along trying to understand all these most subtle concepts with the dull and crude English language of the early 21st century. What a daunting task! Consequently most of these threads are mired in devotees arguing with each other over merely semantical points. It's kind of sad when you think about it, but then again it is Kali Yuga. The entire English language is based on duality. In our paradigm and language the tatastha is either a geographical place or it is not a geographical place. And then of course we are concerned as to whether the jiva is from the spiritual world or not from the spiritual world. Black and white, on and off etc. A great language and way of thinking for computer science and all technology but not Gaudiya Vaisnava siddhanta. As Srila Sridhar Maharaja has said, "there is gradation everywhere". We have to deeply ponder this, as we need to ponder Mahaprabhu's concept of acintya bhedaabheda tattva, simultaneous oneness and difference.

For sure. Trying to fit spiritual truths into material languages of any type will always fall short but yet such is what bridges to higher thought are made of. Fortunately just an honest attempt to understand is pleasing to Krsna and His truth can reach us no matter.

English must be sorely limited considering it has arisen from a spiritually impoverished society. Srila Prabhupada however has enriched it much.

January 24, 2007

Some really good discussions here on this subject.

For sure. Trying to fit spiritual truths into material languages of any type will always fall short but yet such is what bridges to higher thought are made of. Fortunately just an honest attempt to understand is pleasing to Krsna and His truth can reach us no matter.

English must be sorely limited considering it has arisen from a spiritually impoverished society. Srila Prabhupada however has enriched it much.

gHari · January 25, 2007

Unborn - no origin. Debate concluded.

March 23, 2007

THE SECRET BOOK OF ORIGINS.

QUANTUM PHYSICS OR THE SCIENCE OF POSSIBILITIES. UNDERSTANDING THE UNIVERSAL CREATION.

Introduction

The Jiva-soul: Its Origin, Nature, And Potentialities

The perpetual Kingdom of Radha and Krishna, known as Krishna-Loka or Goloka-Vrndavana and encircled by the imperishable Vishnu-Loka or the Vaikuntha Planets, where Krishna’s numerable expansions of Vishnu and Lakshmi reside along with their infinite number of devotee’s (known as Krishna’s marginal potency or individual bodily servants) takes up 3/4 of the imperishable Spiritual Sky or total creation.

Krishna’s planet is centered above in the red lotus flower and surrounded by unlimited expansions of Vishnu and Lakshmi in the surrounding yellow Vaikuntha planets, both transcendental abodes are made up of living entities (individual bodily personalities and Krishna’s marginal potency) with eternal devotional bodies, where as the less significant and smaller mahat-tattva cloud, also in that Spiritual Sky (perishable material universe only 1/4 of creation), as well as its impersonal escape, is nothing other than the rebellious dreams, thoughts and desires of just a few of those eternal bodily personalities. Such dreams, thoughts and desires are projected or transmitted as a ‘secondary consciousness’ to the mahat-tattva or temporary material manifestation, due to their desire not to be with Krishna as their devotional form or body. It is there within that mahat-tattva cloud the projected secondary consciousness, emanating from ones original perpetual body, becomes contained by ethereal and biological vessels provided by the presiding Deity of the mahat-tattva, Maha-Vishnu.

Krishna’s subsidiary or marginal living entities make Him inclusive and all pervading like the sun and the sunrays, yet both Krishna and His marginal potency always remain individual persons as those original authentic perpetual person in/as transcendental bodies that is always who they really are for eternity.

In other words such spiritual bodies in the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Empire are not vessels or container or a body one is housed in, no, it is not like that in the perpetual spiritual Sky because those bodies are who one really is for infinity.

The energy of Lord Krishna is divided into three: para, kshetrajna and avidya. The para energy is actually the energy of the Supreme Lord Himself; the kshetrajna energy is the individual living entities or the marginal potency of Krishna that are all originally eternal bodily persons like Krishna yet always in the constitutional position of eternal servants and the enjoyed, while Krishna is the enjoyer; and the avidya energy is the material world (mahat-tattva), under the influential control of Maya-Devi, the wife of the creator of the mahat-tattva, Maha-Vishnu.

Never was there a time when all the individual transcendental bodies (marginal potency, soul or atma-jiva-vigraha devotee’s) did not exist, nor in the future will such original bodies cease to be. This is confirmed as follows –

‘Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be’ - Bhagavad-Gita as it is chapter 12 text 2.

Krishna or God is a perpetual ‘Bodily-Person’ and so are all of the individual marginal potencies (souls) that emanate/surround Him.

We hear from the Vedic texts that the Supreme Brahman or Brahmajyoti exhibits Krishna’s (God’s) effulgence, and therefore everything becomes illuminated. We can understand from Brahma-samhita that this Brahmajyoti, or the Brahman effulgence, emanates from the Personal body of Lord Krishna.

Many Vaishnava philosophers have considered this effulgence of bodily individuals or souls to be Impersonal however, all ‘so-called sparks in the effulgence or souls’ in Krishna’s ‘energy emission of rays’ are actually the manifestation of unlimited individual bodily-personalities that are referred to as Krishna’s marginal potency, sparks or jiva-atma-vigraha souls.

March 23, 2007

CONTINUATION

THE SECRET BOOK OF ORIGINS. QUANTUM PHYSICS OR THE SCIENCE OF POSSIBILITIES. UNDERSTANDING THE UNIVERSAL CREATION.

The Jiva-soul: Its Origin, Nature, And Potentialities

Even the terminology ‘originally manifested’ is incorrect because there is no beginning or end to Krishna or His marginal devotee’s. One thing is certain; all living entities that enter the dark mahat-tattva cloud in the far corner of the Spiritual Sky have all originated from the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, not as their perpetual devotional Krishna Conscious body, but rather as a transformation of consciousness caused by non-Krishna conscious desires.

All marginal sparks, souls, jiva's, atoms in the effulgence, potencies, energies etc are all individual bodily personalities that originally manifested as an eternally Krishna (God) Conscious devotional body or sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. (Etenity, knowledge, bliss and form)

It is only when they (the marginal devotee’s as their authentic devotional body) foolishly transmit a 'secondary conscious phenomenon’ (jiva-bhutah) to the mahat-tattva (material universe), that such knowledge of their original service to Krishna in the transcendental body they really are, is temporarily lost (never severed due to their spiritual body being the source of their transmitted jiva bhutah consciousness) and the disease of Impersonalism (Mayavadism) and confinement to ethereal and biological vessels or bodies, overwhelms and traps their transferred secondary consciousness to the confines of the material temporary universe or mahat-tattva. As marginal living entities we have the ability to move from one atmosphere to the other. When we drop into material consciousness we are considered eternally bound (nitya baddha) because that is all we have awareness of.

The unfortunate unknowledgeable view of believing our origins are from Impersonal origins even affects many great Vaishnava devotee’s like Srila Bhaktirakshaka Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaja, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja Swami, B.G. Narasingha and many others in the Gaudiya Math. Many Vaishnava philosophers have considered this effulgence of bodily individuals or souls to be Impersonal however, all ‘so-called sparks in the effulgence or souls’ in Krishna’s ‘energy emission of rays’ are actually the manifestation of unlimited individual bodily-personalities that are referred to as Krishna’s marginal potency, sparks or jiva-atma-vigraha souls. Their understanding of the jiva or souls origins is simply incorrect. The fact is, we are all eternal person as a perpetual transcendental body and always have been that bodily form. We can either accept that Krishna conscious bodily origins, or we can deny that body and consciously transfer our desires, aspirations, dreams and thoughts to he mahat-tattva (impermanent material universe of self centered importance).

Ultimately Krishna’s ‘marginal-potency-bodily personalities’ are the Brahmajyoti!!

It is from all those perpetual bodily individuals forms (vigraha’s), who are always engaged in various pastimes with Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vishnu within the surrounding Vaikuntha planets, may sometimes go on to ‘consciously’ (never as the body they are eternally, that is their true selfless devotional unique self) leave Krishna’s imperishable abode and enter the perishable mahat-tattva cloud within one corner of the Spiritual Sky in a secondary non-Krishna conscious state that automatically becomes an Impersonal phenomenon within the Brahmajyoti. Only in this way, via the mahat-tattva cloud, can the Impersonal Brahmajyoti temporarily exist.

All the ‘individual bodily subsidiary sparks (vigraha’s) of the effulgence originating from Krishna’ are actually collectively the Brahmajyoti Brahman effulgence or Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha’s bodily personalities serving Krishna.

The mahat-tattva on the other hand, is also part and the parcel of the Brahmajyoti, and comes into existence due the dreams of Maha-Vishnu (the parcel or energetic) and simultaneously the non-Krishna conscious desires, aspirations, thoughts and dreams of the marginal living entities (the part or energy) perpetually serving the either Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrndavana when they abandon that service. Without the part, (marginal) the parcel (Krishna) is not complete – without the marginal secondary transmitted consciousness emanating from the marginal living entities authentic bodily origins, Maha-Vishnu’s dreams within the mahat-tattva and incomplete. Krishna and his marginal devotee’s are inseparable even when his marginal servants choose even when His marginal servants choose to extend their consciousness to a secondary existence away from the full potentialities of their own original devotional bodily identity.

Because Krishna is the Supreme Personality of God and the cause of all causes, He anticipates such choices of His marginal energy (vigraha’s). In other words, for Krishna to be complete, the marginal potency, including their secondary transmitted consciousness, actually make Krishna the absolute-whole or simultaneously one and different (acintya-beda-beda-tattva) It is because Krishna allows individuality, He knows in advance that some will choose to reject Him and their own Krishna conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa-sat-cit-ananda-vigraha body and apt for the secondary option which is the mahat-tattva or material universe.

For Krishna to be complete, He creates this secondary option via His Maha-Vishnu expansion (technically Maha-Vishnu is an expansion of Balarama who is Krishna’s brother). The mahat-tattva is created ironically out of love for His marginal vigraha devotee’s because He would rather they choice to love or serve Him than be like a slave or ‘mindless’ servant without free will. Therefore one can stay in Krishna’s Autocratic Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha realm if they choose, or they can ‘consciously’ enter the impermanent mahat-tattva (never as their authentic bodily form as that body is perpetually part and parcel of the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky).

All of Krishna’s marginal ‘sparks’ have the same bodily features like Krishna – sat-cit-ananda-vigraha.

The marginal potency or sparks emanating from the whole categorically means individual bodily personalities emanating and surrounding Krishna’s Personal bodily form. Sometimes this is compared to a fire from whence those individual sparks come from. It’s only a metaphor, a allegory, a figure of speech, Krishna is certainly not a blazing fire in His Ultimate self and bodily form and neither are the marginal individual bodily personalities impersonal sparks emanating from that blazing fire. Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is often referred to as the energetic, while His marginal servants are known as the marginal energies however, in both cases the original and ultimate appearance of both Krishna (energetic) and His marginal potency (energies) are always individual bodily personalities of Master (Krishna) and servant (marginal individuals called nitya-siddha-svarupa-sat-cit-ananda-vigraha eternal devotee’s of Krishna). In other words every living entity (marginal potency) has an original devotional bodily form that is perpetually serving Krishna in unlimited pastimes within either Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha.

As explained, it is important to understand that Krishna’s marginal potency bodily personalities are the Brahmajyoti!!

It is from all those perpetual bodily individuals forms (vigraha’s), who are always engaged in various pastimes with Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vishnu within the surrounding Vaikuntha planets, that a secondary non-Krishna conscious phenomenon may sometimes ‘consciously’ leave or be projected from their Krishna conscious authentic original bodily self within the imperishable abode of Krishna (Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha). This is how the living entity (a secondary projected non-Krishna conscious self, enters or falls down to the perishable mahat-tattva cloud within one corner of the Spiritual Sky in a inferior non-Krishna conscious state that automatically becomes an Impersonal phenomenon within the Brahmajyoti existing in the mahat-tattva cloud.

Only in this way, via the mahat-tattva cloud (never as ones authentic body that can never leave Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha realm), can the Impersonal Brahmajyoti temporarily exist.

All the ‘individual bodily marginal sparks (souls, jiva’s, living entities or life force) of the effulgence emanating/surrounding Krishna, are actually collectively the Brahmajyoti Brahman effulgence or the Vaikuntha’s that is eternally glowing with individual personalities in perpetual devotional bodies.

March 23, 2007

CONTINUATION

It must be given emphasis to, that the mahat-tattva, also part of the Brahmajyoti, comes into existence due to the dreams of Maha-Vishnu in partnership (the parcel and the part can never be separated) with the non-Krishna conscious desires, aspirations, thoughts and dreams of the marginal living entities perpetually serving in either Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrndavana, when they foolishly desire to be the master instead of the servant.

All of Krishna’s marginal ‘sparks, jivas' or souls’ have the same bodily features like Him. Sparks emanating from the whole means individual bodily personalities emanating and surrounding Krishna’s Personal bodily form that is compared to a fire from whence those individual sparks come from.

The author of this work is Pradyumna Swami and he has said his only authority on Krishna Consciousness is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, You may not agree with his understandings of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. He is simply doing what Srila Prabhupada said and that is write down your realization of how we originated from Goloka-Vrndavana. It is not based on speculation it is based on the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

We can only repeat that our origins are from Goloka-Vrndavana as Srila Prabhupada has told us and if we are fortunate enough to again re-waken there, we will certainly understand the spiritual world much better then as we awaken back up as our original Krishna Conscious body.

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, the founder of the International Society or Krishna Consciousness means when he says:

“Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (tatastra-sakti, impersonal liberated condition or Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada further says: “Regarding your questions concerning the spirit soul’s falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krishna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually, anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstances, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70

Some have translated this letter as follows: -‘Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krishna-loka (Goloka-Vrndavana), does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. but those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krishna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down.

Srila Prabhupada: - “The soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. but his relationship with Krishna is never lost, simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the holy name of Krishna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the lord which is his original or constitutional position. the relationship of the living entity with Krishna is eternal as both Krishna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new”

Our original relationship with Krishna is never lost. It was ripped away from us by the prakshepatmika-shakti of Maya, and we were then covered over by her avaranatmika-shakti of forgetfulness. As such, our original relationship with the Lord is forgotten, and this has tragic consequences for the jiva. We futilely try to re-establish that personal relationship with material liaisons, and this is ultimately only productive of misery.

"The living entities are not without spiritual senses. Every living being in his original, spiritual form has all the senses, which are now material, being covered by the body and mind. Activities of the material senses are perverted reflections of spiritual pastimes." Sri Ishopanishad, Verse 11

This tragedy is only very rarely transcended by artificially adopting mayavada and self-imposing the belief that we have never had any personal relationship with Krishna.

"Yes. The conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus were with Krishna before being conditioned . . . similarly, each soul has seen Krishna . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 2.25.70

"We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . ." Address to large audience-Prabhupada on the Hare Krishna album

Our protagonists counter with this quotation from Prabhupada:

"The all-pervading feature of the Lord, which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states, and from which the jiva-shakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls, is known as brahman." Sri Ishopanishad, Verse 16

Please note that the adverb "originally" is nowhere to be found in this quotation. Jivas may descend or generate many times in this way from brahma-sayujya, but that does not make the brahmajyoti their original home.

The terminology of sparks, energies, atoms in the effulgence, and potency are only metaphors, a allegories - a figure of speech, Krishna is certainly not a blazing fire in His Ultimate self and form and neither are the marginal individual bodily personalities impersonal sparks emanating from that blazing fire. Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is often referred to as the energetic, while His marginal servants are known as the marginal energies however, in both cases the original and ultimate appearance of both Krishna (energetic) and His marginal potency (energies) are always individual bodily personalities of Master (Krishna) and servant (marginal individuals called nitya-siddha-svarupa-sat-cit-ananda-vigraha eternal devotee’s of Krishna).

In is way it is clear that every living entity (marginal potency) has/is an original devotional bodily form that is perpetually serving Krishna in unlimited pastimes within either Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha whether they are aware of who they really are or not.

The smaller mahat-tattva (material universes) phenomenon on the other hand is a dark perishable cloud, as shown above, that is also situated in the Spiritual Sky and surrounded by the superior Vaikuntha Planets that vastly out number the insignificant material universes within the mahat-tattva cloud. This dark impermanent cloud is a discoloration within the Spiritual Sky and is constructed for the mutinous desires, thoughts or dreams of those individuals who no longer wish to be with Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Krishna is the original Supreme Personality from whence all other individual perpetual bodily personalities (known as Krishna’s marginal potency or energy) are sustained from. Krishna also expands Himself from His Personal Goloka-Vrndavana abode and takes up residents on the infinite number of Vaikuntha planets; however Balarama, Krishna’s brother in Goloka-Vrndavana, appears as Sankarshana and is the origin of Maha-Vishnu who goes on and creates the mahat-tattva.

Lord Krishna, the original Godhead and cause of all causes, firsts expands as Balarama who resides with Him in His Personal abode. It is Balarama who creates and maintains the dark cloud (mahat-tattva) that is encircled by overwhelming presents of perpetual Vaikuntha Planets. It is within the mahat-tattva, the four-armed sleeping expansion of Balarama appears. He is known as Maha-Vishnu and is accompanied by His wife Maya Devi. Together they build, administer and create the facilities to fulfill the desires, thoughts and dreams of those who no longer yearn to remain in the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha realm and who prefer to ‘consciously’ transfer their ‘self-awareness’ or secondary conscious state (jiva-sakti or jiva-bhutah) to Maha-Vishnu’s mahat-tattva creation. One has to understand Maha-Vishnu’s appearance in the mahat-tattva with great intelligence because the material energy is also emanating from Him.

Maha-Vishnu is the original source of the impermanent material energy or mahat-tattva, just as the sun is the source of the sunshine. The sunshine cannot cover the sun globe, nor can the material energy, being an emanation from of Maha-Vishnu, cover Him. Maha-Vishnu is simultaneously within and without of the mahat-tattva, He is in the three modes of material energy, but actually the three modes of material energy cannot cover Him. The highly intellectual philosophers understand this. In other words, although Maha-Vishnu appears to be within the material energy yet is never covered by it.

Maha-Vishnu therefore provides the bodily vessels and their material surroundings that make the transmitted jiva-bhutah’s desires a reality however, even though it is all-real, it is also temporary and for that reason the dreams of Maha-Vishnu are considered an illusion. All non-Krishna conscious dreams or disloyal thoughts of self importance are transmitted as the jiva-bhutah consciousness (the soul or life force) and then contained in outward ethereal or biological vessels (supplied by Maha-Vishnu) or may eventually, after many, many births and deaths, become silent in an impersonal inactive un-bodied liberated state that both belong to and are only achieved after ones secondary projected consciousness has entered the mahat-tattva (the impermanent material universal creation).

March 23, 2007

CONTINUATION

As explained, the non-Krishna conscious dream, seditious feelings and requirements of self-importance is expressed as a secondary conscious condition known as the jiva-bhutah consciousness which is transferred out of the imperishable Vaikuntha realm to the perishable mahat-tattva cloud phenomenon also in the Spiritual Sky. Then entire Spiritual Sky or creation is further known as the Brahmajyoti, as shown above.

Once the transmitted jiva-bhutah consciousness enters the mahat-tattva cloud, it is immediately contained in outward ethereal or biological vessels that belong to and are provided from within the mahat-tattva by Maha-Vishnu, or eventually, after many, many births of trying to enjoy those bodily vessels, the transmitted jiva-bhutah consciousness may discover the existence of an Impersonal inactive outlet state of consciousness (jiva-nikaya) if they continue to deny the Krishna Conscious bodily origins of their transmitted secondary consciousness transferred to the mahat-tattva from the outside Vaikuntha realm.

The Impersonal condition, only found after going through the mahat-tattva in ethereal and biological vessels, releases one from being trapped in those impermanent decaying vessels. The jiva-nikaya condition of inactive consciousness is only achieved after one is impersonally liberated from those bodies by withdrawing into a dreamless, thoughtless and desireless condition of consciousness they foolishly believe is becoming one with God and the universe. Maha-Vishnu, the Over-Lord, facilitator and provider within the mahat-tattva or material universe, does also allow the jiva-nikaya impersonalists to merge into His body but they certainly do not become Maha-Vishnu, they simply remain dormant there until Maha-Vishnu creates the next mahat-tattva manifestation. Such dormant jiva-nikaya dormant consciousnesses eventually fall down to the jiva-bhutah condition and become again contained in ethereal and biological vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu.

Both states of consciousness, namely the active embodied jiva-bhutah consciousness that is confined to ethereal and biological vessels, as well as the ‘play-acting imaginary oneness with the universe, which is actually just an inactive condition of individual consciousness called the jiva-nikaya liberated position, are both only attained after first ‘consciously’ entering the mahat-tattva from ‘the outside surrounding Vaikuntha planets’ where ones perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily form exists.

The so-called dormant jiva-nikaya dreamless condition, where ones consciousness is individually merged into the ‘supposed Impersonal Brahma-sayujya or Impersonal Brahmajyoti is actually no more than just a consciously non-active place or reality within the mahat-tattva creation where ones secondary consciousness, that changes from the active jiva-bhutah condition to the inactive jiva-nikaya condition, remains dormant. This Impersonal stationary condition is not full of an unlimited number of individual ‘inactive’ jiva-nikaya, it is all those transmitted jiva-nikaya consciousnesses congregated together that are the stationary effulgent Brahma-sayujya or Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.

The Impersonal Brahmajyoti is Krishna’s individual marginal perpetual bodily personalities or potency in their secondary conscious manifestation that only exists for those who travel first through the mahat-tattva. As they persist to enjoy the material universe on their own terms and ignore, not only Krishna, but also their original personal devotional bodily identity and continue to arrogantly refuse to accept the existence of Krishna and there own original body, they will continue on being embodied by ethereal and biological vessels until they become fed-up with such impermanent vessels. It is then they seek an inactive solution because their only memory of being active in a bodily form always ends in pain and suffering because they cannot see their genuine bodily origins beyond the mahat-tattva cloud. In this way the Brahma-sayujya and impersonal Brahmajyoti condition is ultimately, after first existing in those frustrating ethereal vessels covered by biological bags of bones and stool, achieved as a relief from the temporary painful nature of those vessels confined to the mahat-tattva. Finding liberation from those vessels is how the Brahma-sayujya and Impersonal Brahmajyoti manifest.

This dormant secondary conscious condition of the marginal potency is transmitted as the individual sparks that is the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, Brahma-sayujya. Such dormant Impersonal consciousness can also merge into the Body of Maha-Vishnu, yet at no stage does such transmitted inactive projected consciousness loose its individuality. All these aspects of Impersonalism are actually a state of ‘motionless individual consciousness’ that can only first exist in a unmoving state after first eventually emerging or withdrawing from the confines and shackles of ethereal and biological vessels within the mahat-tattva. These Impersonal states of liberation can only be achieved after millions of births and deaths of attempting to end the ‘thought process of material desires’ that confine ones transmitted consciousness to ethereal and biological vessels that belong to and are part and parcel of the mahat-tattva.

The great Impersonalist yogis struggle very hard to achieve their freedom from Karma, or attempting to shed the ethereal and biological vessels or bodies the transmitted forgetful consciousness is restricted to. If the Impersonalists do not realize their true authentic Krishna Conscious bodily origins or source from whence their consciousness originates, then the only way to be free from the ethereal and biological containers is inactivity and cessation of thoughts, desires and dreams - an extremely difficult task. Only when one no longer desires or attempt to enjoy the impermanent material universe or mahat-tattva in ethereal and biological vessels, can they then achieve the difficultly attained Impersonal liberated state by freeing themselves from karma, good and bad. It is then that the inactive jiva-nikaya consciousness individually merges either into the collective Impersonal compilation, where numerous other inactive individual jiva-nikaya consciousnesses are situated or even worse, attempt to merge into the Transcendental bodily form of Maha-Vishnu which is a most regrettable selfish ignorant act to the Vaishnava’s or Krishna’s devotees.

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura wrote in Sri Brahma Samhita. Text 21:

‘The same jiva is eternal and is for eternity and without a beginning joined to the Supreme Lord by the tie of an eternal kinship”

‘Hence jiva’s are identical with the principles of knowledge, knower, egoism, enjoyed, mediator and doer’

‘That eternal relationship consists in this that the Supreme Lord is the eternal master and jiva’s are His eternal servants. Jiva’s have also sufficient eligibility in respect at the mellow quality of the Divinity’

‘But so long as he remains submissive to Krishna, the Lord of Maya, he is not liable to the influence of Maya’

All Impersonal aspects of existence are only made possible within the mahat-tattva cloud. Impersonalism is not possible in the Goloka-Vrndavana/ Vaikuntha realm (3/4 of the Spiritual Sky) except in Krishna Lila (like Jaya and Vijaya). Technically Krishna makes the rules, they are His rules because everything is His creation, and He can break them, change them or do what ever He wants.

In the Goloka-Vrndavana Krishna and Balarama kill’s demons – how is this possible in the Spiritual realm? Well, as Krishna Book tells us, all Demons are playing a part in a play to please Krishna and are always Krishna Conscious. Its all Lila and such pastimes are vast and inconceivable to a non-Vaishnava, especially when Krishna brings His Vrndavana pastimes to within the mahat-tattva (material universes). Pradyumna Swami

March 23, 2007

CONTINUATION

Technically Krishna doesn't kill demons. Vishnu does.

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 4.11-12

nārāyaṇa, catur-vyūha, matsyādy-avatāra

yuga-manvantarāvatāra, yata āche āra

sabe āsi' kṛṣṇa-ańge haya avatīrṇa

aiche avatare kṛṣṇa bhagavān pūrṇa

Lord Nārāyaṇa, the four primary expansions [Vāsudeva, Sańkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha], Matsya and the other līlā incarnations, the yuga-avatāras, the manv-antara incarnations and as many other incarnations as there are — all descend in the body of Lord Krishna. In this way the complete Supreme Godhead, Lord Krishna Himself, appears.

ataeva viṣṇu takhana kṛṣṇera śarīre

viṣṇu-dvāre kare kṛṣṇa asura-saḿhāre

At that time, therefore, Lord Vishnu is present in the body of Lord Krishna, and Lord Krishna kills the demons through Him.

Bhaktivedanta Veda Base: Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 4. 11.16

Lord Narayana, the four primary expansions [Vasudeva, Sankarshana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha], Matsya and the other lila incarnations, the yuga-avataras, the manv-antara incarnations and as many other incarnations as there are -- all descend in the body of Lord Krishna. In this way the complete Supreme Godhead, Lord Krishna Himself, appears.

At that time, therefore, Lord Vishnu is present in the body of Lord Krishna, and Lord Krishna kills the demons through Him.

Thus the killing of the demons is but secondary work. I shall now speak of the main reason for the Lord's incarnation

The Lord's desire to appear was born from two reasons: the Lord wanted to taste the sweet essence of the mellows of love of God, and He wanted to propagate devotional service in the world on the platform of spontaneous attraction. Thus He is known as supremely jubilant and as the most merciful of all.

During the period of Lord Krishna's appearance, Vishnu, who was within the person of Sri Krishna, did the killing of asuras or nonbelievers such as Kamsa and Jarasandha. Such apparent killing by Lord Sri Krishna took place as a matter of course and was an incidental activity for Him. But the real purpose of Lord Krishna's appearance was to stage a dramatic performance of His transcendental pastimes at Vrajabhumi, thus exhibiting the highest limit of transcendental mellow in the exchanges of reciprocal love between the living entity and the Supreme Lord.

These reciprocal exchanges of mellows are called raga-bhakti, or devotional service to the Lord in transcendental rapture. Lord Sri Krishna wants to make known to all the conditioned souls that He is more attracted by raga-bhakti than vidhi-bhakti, or devotional service under scheduled regulations. It is said in the Vedas (Taittiriya Up. 2.7), raso vai sah: the Absolute Truth is the reservoir for all kinds of reciprocal exchanges of loving sentiments. He is also causelessly merciful, and He wants to bestow upon us this privilege of raga-bhakti. Thus He appeared by His own internal energy. He was not forced to appear by any extraneous force.

The Lord does not kill any demons in his pastimes in Goloka-Vrndavana. Killing of demons only happens in the material world (MAHAT-TATTVA).

In Goloka the residents of Vraja hear rumors that Kamsa is the King of Mathura but Kamsa does not exist in Mathura in the spiritual world. In Mathura in Goloka, Krishna enjoys pastimes with his family the Yadavas.

The idea that when Krishna is on this planet in Vrndavana or Dvarka or Mathura He is in the material world and when he is in Goloka-Vrndavana He is in the spiritual world is not correct. Vrndavana on this planet is not in the material world. It is Krishna's eternal abode, which has descended onto this plant. It is also quite difficult for us to understand the nature of Vrndavana and Srila Prabhupada said you couldn’t visit Vrndavana simply by purchasing an airline ticket. Many go to the place Vrndavana but do not actually see Vrndavana at all. It requires purified eyes to see. As people mistake Krishna's body, the body of the Deity in the temple or the body or a pure devotee to be material, they think that Vrndavana in this world is material and somehow different to the Vrndavana in the spiritual world. It is not true. It is the same Vrndavana.

Adi 5.18 The Glories of Lord Nityananda Balarama

From the authoritative evidence cited by Jiva Gosvami we may conclude that Krishna-loka (Goloka-Vrndavana) is the supreme planet in the spiritual sky, which is far beyond the material cosmos.

For the enjoyment of transcendental variety, the pastimes of Krishna there have three divisions, and these pastimes are performed in the three abodes Dvaraka, Mathura and Gokula. When Krishna descends to this universe, He enjoys the pastimes in places of the same name. These places on earth are nondifferent from those original abodes, for they are facsimiles of those original holy places in the transcendental world. They are as good as Sri Krishna Himself and are equally worshipable. Lord Caitanya declared that Lord Krishna, who presents Himself as the son of the King of Vraja, is worshipable, and Vrndavana-dhama is equally worshipable.

There is one slight difference. In the spiritual world there are no demons, so when Krishna wants to fight he comes to the material world to exhibit His fighting spirit here...

Madhya 20.397 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science

There are two types of devotees, the sadhaka, who is preparing for perfection, and the siddha, who is already perfect. As far as those who are already perfect are concerned, Bhagavad-gita says, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti so 'rjuna: "After giving up this material body, such a devotee comes to Me." After leaving the ethereal and biological bodily restraints, the perfect devotee takes birth in the womb of a gopi on a planet where Krishna’s pastimes are going on. This may be in this universe or another universe. This statement is found in the Ujjvala-nilamani, which is commented upon by Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. When a devotee becomes perfect, he is transferred to the universe where Krishna’s pastimes are taking place. Krishna’s eternal associates go wherever Krishna manifests His pastimes. As stated before, first the father and mother of Krishna appear, then the other associates. Quitting his material body, the perfect devotee also goes to associate with Krishna and His other associates.

So Srila Prabhupada here says the perfect devotee takes birth in the womb of a gopi on the planet where Krishna is manifesting His pastimes. He goes on to say, "Quitting his ethereal and biological bodies or vessels handed out by Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva, the perfect devotee awakens his ‘old’ Krishna Conscious origin and reestablishes ones association with Krishna and His other associates." So when he takes birth on the planet where Krishna is having his pastimes from the womb of one of the gopis, the perfect devotee does no longer have an ethereal or biological covering (nitya-baddha extended conscious condition) because they are again reestablished back in their nitya-siddha body.

The unfolding of Krishna Lila is difficult to understand because of so many apparent contradictions. For instance, there is no longer birth in Goloka-Vrndavana yet devotees take birth. It is clear that while one does have an origin bodily form in Goloka-Vrndavana, such appearances change according to the mellows of devotional service. Ones original body is in Goloka-Vrndavana however one can also live as a four armed servant of Vishnu in the Vaikuntha’s.

KB 28 Releasing Nanda Maharaja from the Clutches of Varuna

Those who successfully practice bhakti-yoga, after giving up this present body, go directly to the spiritual world and become situated in one of the Vaikuntha planets in their original Spiritual body. The inhabitants of Vrndavana are all pure devotees. Their destination, after quitting the body given by Maha-Vishnu in the mahat-tattva, is Krishna loka, where they reunited their extended consciousness back to their full Krishna Conscious atma-vigraha body.

They even surpass the Vaikunthalokas as every marginal entities original bodily form is permanently in Goloka-Vrndavana! The fact is, those who are always engaged in Krishna consciousness are given the chance, after death, to re-gain Krishna’s association again in the universes within the material world. Krishna’s pastimes are continually going on, either in this universe or in another universe. Just as the sun globe is passing through many places across this earthly planet, so Krishna-Lila, or the transcendental advent and pastimes of Krishna, are also going on continually, either in this or another universe. The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krishna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krishna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their first opportunity to associate with Krishna personally and directly. The training goes on, as we see in the Vrndavana Lila of Krishna within this planet.

March 23, 2007

Obviously the gopis don't have ethereal and biological containers or bodies. They may complain about Lord Brahma creating eyes that blink, but they are using their eyes to look at Krishna, so they are not at all material eyes...

We can only repeat that our origins are from Goloka-Vrndavana as Srila Prabhupada has told us and if we are fortunate enough to again go there, we will certainly understand the spiritual world much better then as we awaken back up as our original Krishna Conscious body.

As clearly explained, the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha realm of the spiritual universe is completely different from the material worlds in the mahat-tattva; we have no experiences here to compare to the Goloka-Vrndavana. So it is difficult for us to conceive or even imagine what it is like. We know the time factor does not act there, there is no past and future, everything is eternally present... So how can we understand that? We have no experience of such a thing, we cannot even imagine it. But we accept it as being perfect knowledge of the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha realm because we have heard it from Srila Prabhupada. We may not completely realize what it means, but we have heard it from Prabhupada, so that is perfect knowledge. We also know that there is no birth or death there, there is no old age or disease, there is no anxiety. We know there are desire trees there that will supply the devotees with anything they want, we know there are subari cows that will give one as much milk as he desires at any time.

There are so many things we know about the spiritual world from the Brahma-samhita and other books also. And ultimately, if we strictly follow the process of Krishna consciousness by chanting at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra daily and following the four regulative principles [no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication] and if we read Srila Prabhupada's books constantly and engage in serving Krishna under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master 24 hours a day perhaps Krishna will reveal to us the nature of His Goloka-Vrndavana planet.

We cannot understand these things by our own strength. They are beyond the ability of our senses to experience and beyond the power of our mind to conceive. So the only way we will be able to understand these things is if Krishna reveals the knowledge to us.

Madhya 20.397 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura elucidates this complicated explanation of Krishna’s pastimes. Krishna’s pastimes are always present in the material world in one of the many universes. These pastimes appear in the universes one after the other, just as the sun moves across the sky and measures the time. Krishna’s appearance may be manifest in this universe at one moment, and immediately after His birth, this pastime is manifest in the next universe. After His killing of Putana is manifest in this universe, it is next manifest in another universe. Thus all the pastimes of Krishna eternally exist both in the original Goloka-Vrndavana planet and in the material universes.

Mundane time means impermanence, birth, disease, old age and death controlled by the movement of past, present and future. In other words when it is said the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha abode is perpetually in the present it means that the so called 'past, present and future' is not imperishable, there is no birth, disease, old age or death. This is like trying to understand the third dimension from being in the second dimension. Material eyes cannot understand these things.

To understand an imperishable universe where everything is living as individual bodily forms serving Krishna is difficult. We cannot even view the sub-space ghostly realities in the material universe. Individually we may be aware of its existence but one can never prove it with the most advanced electron microscope or the Hubble telescope is space, our gross material science and technology can never prove the existence of sub-space or the ethereal containers that exist there because such subtle matter can never be viewed through biological and gross material means, even though the biological vessels is a further containment of the subtle or ethereal body. Only by pious activities can the heavenly planets in the mahat-tattva be attained and not by secular means of science, technology and architecture.

The transcendental mellow relished by the gopis in Vraja is super excellently featured in Srimati Radharani. Mature assimilation of the transcendental humor of conjugal love is represented by Srimati Radharani, whose feelings are incomprehensible even to the Lord Himself. The intensity of Her loving service is the highest form of ecstasy. No one can surpass Srimati Radharani in relishing the qualities of the Lord through this supreme transcendental mellow. Therefore the Lord Himself agreed to assume the position of Radharani in the form of Lord Sri Gauranga. He then relished the highest position of parakiya-rasa, as exhibited in the transcendental abode of Vraja.

Srila Prabhupada gives credit to "enjoying the same facility or the same amount of pleasure as the Supreme" and "the enjoyment can be equally participated".

We are not enjoyer; we are enjoyed. So we must know our constitutional position, that we are not enjoyer; we are enjoyed. As soon as we areconvinced to this particular...

Now, enjoyer and enjoyed, both of them have got consciousness. Just like the husband and the wife. The husband is the enjoyer, the wife is the enjoyed, but both of them are conscious. But the consciousness of the enjoyed is the subordinate to the consciousness of the enjoyer. So although the supreme consciousness is the supreme enjoyer, and we are enjoyed, but the enjoyment can be equally participated when there is actual enjoyment. So our enjoyment can be perfect, our enjoyment can be perfected when we participate the enjoyment of God”. Bhagavad-gita Lecture Excerpts: 2.44-45, 2.58, New York, March 25, 1966

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead and the living entity are qualitatively one; both are defined as purusa. The quality of purusa exists both in the Supreme Godhead and in the living entity. Purusa means "enjoyer," and the spirit of enjoyment is present both in the living entity and in the Supreme Lord. The difference is that the quantity of enjoyment is not equal. The living entity cannot experience the same quantity of enjoyment as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. An analogy may be made with a rich man and a poor man: the propensity for enjoyment s present in both, but the poor man cannot enjoy in the same quantity asthe rich man. When the poor man dovetails his desires with those of the rich man, however, and when there is cooperation between the poor man and the rich man, or between the big and the small man, then the enjoyment is shared equally. That is like bhakti-yoga. purusah purusam vrajet: when the living entity enters into the kingdom of God and cooperates with the Supreme Lord by giving Him enjoyment, he enjoys the same facility or the same amount of pleasure as the Supreme Personality of Godhead." SB 3.29.25 ppt

Most religions believe the heavenly planets in the mahat-tattva is the Kingdom of God, here we are trying to understand beyond all that. Lets face, such understanding is only possible when we awaken our old and original Krishna Consciousness.

Impersonal liberation in the non Krishna Conscious sense (not Lila), is achieved only after ones transmitted consciousness (jiva-bhutah) first travels through the mahat-tattva (ethereal and biological vessels in material existence) impermanent cloud and only then, can ones secondary consciousness (jiva-bhutah) become free from the shekels of ethereal and biological constraints however, even the merging into the Brahma- sayujya or tatastra sakti, Impersonal Brahmajyoti, or even into the bodily form of Maha-Vishnu, is temporary. As already emphasized, the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastra-sakti or Brahma-sayujya is only attained after one first enters the mahat-tattva, and only after first being ‘consciously’ transferred (yet never separated) from their perpetual original and authentic Spiritual body (sat-cit-ananda-vigraha) in Goloka-Vrndavana or the Vaikuntha’s.

March 23, 2007

CONTINUATION

It is therefore clear that Impersonal liberation is only attained after one first ‘consciously’ abandoning ones original perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, and then, after entering the mahat-tattva cloud and chasing selfish desires, dreams and thoughts of self importance and grander, further eventually abandon those impermanent ethereal and biological vessels out of frustration, then entering the tatastra inactive Impersonal conscious state. Remember, one has first ‘consciously transferred their consciousness to the mahat-tattva’, long, long, long before entering the tatastra condition of consciousness, One original transferred their jiva-bhutah secondary consciousness to the mahat-tattva in order to achieve autonomy from Krishna’s Personal association and their own eternal Krishna Conscious body they serve Krishna as.

This is what His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, the founder of the International Society or Krishna Consciousness means when he says:

“Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (tatastra-sakti, impersonal liberated condition or Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada in his lectures always says that originally we were all Krishna-conscious living entities and on the Hare Krishna album He addresses a large audience with the words: "We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . ."

Srila Prabhupada further explains: -

“Regarding your questions concerning the spirit soul’s falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krishna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually, anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstances, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70

"A living entity misuses his little independence when he wants to lord it over material nature. This misuse of independence, which is called Maya, is always available.

Srila Prabhupada: - “We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krishna consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krishna’s friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krishna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed”.

Srila Prabhupada: - “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their Lila with Krishna, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, merging into the Brahma-sayujya (Impersonal Brahmajoyti) after being killed three times as demons. This Brahma-sayujya mukti is non-permanent”.

These are important revelation at a time (the beginning of the 21st century) when even so-called advanced Guru’s and Swami’s in various Vaishnava traditions, foolishly mislead others to believe their origins are from the Brahma-sayujya, Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Tatastra-sakti. All these states of impersonal consciousness are only attained after first passing through the mahat-tattva or creation of Maha-Vishnu.

The Vedic texts such as the Brahma samhita are the prayers of Lord Brahma to Krishna however Brahma’s view of the creation is from within the mahat-tattva, in fact the Vedic texts are written to glorify Krishna and His devotee’s for the benefit of those trapped within the Impersonal mahat-tattva. If one carefully studies the teachings of the Srimad Bhagavatam, the viewpoint of our Impersonal so-called origins from the pertain to the tatastra or marginal potency that is located on the line demarcating the spheres of the spiritual and mundane potencies is actually referring to ones existence in the Impersonal varigatedness of the mahat-tattva.

As already stated, that’s why Prabhupada says, “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition or Impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastra or Brahman), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. – Meaning outside the impermanent realm of the Impersonal mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the Spiritual World and return?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krishna says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in Krishna consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krishna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, Krishna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prison house, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prison house. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that”.

ALL those who choose to forget Krishna and enter the forgetful temporary material universe (mahat-tattva) have an original nitya-siddha body. Every living entity has an original nitya-siddhasvarupa-sat-cit-ananda-atma-vigraha body they realize if they are Krishna Conscious, or cannot realize when not Krishna Conscious

Only after many births confined to ethereal and biological containers or bodies within the mahat-tattva, does one eventually no longer desire to be ‘consciously extended’ to those bodies and contained in those impermanent vessels or bodies of suffering and despair within the smaller inconsequential mahat-tattva cloud or material manifestation. It is Impossible for such inactive consciousnesses to exist in the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha domain (3/4 of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti) or within the active dreams of Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva.

March 23, 2007

CONTINUATION

It must be emphasized that such an inactive state of consciousness is generally only attained after first being consciously transferred (Not in ones original genuine Krishna Conscious body because ones perpetual bodily form never leaves Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha) to the mahat-tattva cloud and only then after being active in ethereal and biological bodies for millions of births and deaths, until one becomes fed-up with those impermanent decaying bodies supplied by Maha-Vishnu in the mahat-tattva. Only then, while immersed deeply in forgetfulness of who’s one’s authentic perpetual bodily identity is outside the mahat-tattva, and the frustration with ethereal and biological vessels one has taken shelter of for so long, does one seek out the Impersonal solution. Such an inactive state of individual consciousness (jiva-nikaya) and its motionless quiescent place called the Impersonal Brahma-sayujya and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti can never exist in the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti that takes up 3/4 of Krishna’s Creation. Such mysterious non-Krishna conscious impermanent realities exist only because of the mahat-tattva dark cloud that is created by Maha-Vishnu for those who do not wish to be with Krishna.

Unlike the projected jiva-bhutah relocated consciousness, the ethereal and biological vessels are eternally part and parcel of the mahat-tattva (the impermanent material universal creation). Such vessels within the mahat-tattva are only obtained after ones extended secondary consciousness first enters the mahat-tattva, which is a dark existent (real but temporary) impermanent cloud where the four-armed expansion of Balarama, (Krishna’s brother) the dreaming Maha-Vishnu, and His wife Maya Devi (an expansion of Lakshmi) resides and manages, as shown above.

Unfortunately it also appears many scholars are getting Krishna’s Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha permanent Spiritual sky mixed up with Maha-Vishnu’s impermanent mahat-tattva.

The biological human body is a garment provided by Maha-Vishnu that is made up of billions of other embodied jiva-bhutah’s each at different stages of evolving from a single cell through to complex organs on their path of evolving back to the biological human form. Human biological existence on the middle planetary systems is not possible without the complex existence of lower life forms. Biological life can only be sustained within the mahat-tattva have ‘feeding’ off other biological bodies; this will be fully explained in later chapters. To enter into the lower biological species in the first place, the embodied jiva-bhutah conscious had fallen (a further fall down) from the biological human platform. The biological human body is achieved (covers or further contains the ethereal vessel) after falling from the heavenly sub-space universe. The heavenly planets are achieved after one abandons their service to Krishna in the Goloka-Vrndavana, or Vishnu in the Vaikuntha’s, by consciously (not as their true bodily form and identity) leaving Vaikuntha and entering the mahat-tattva cloud as already explained. The ethereal vessels in the sub-space heavenly and hellish realms can never be proved as an existence by means of the biological human body and the secular gross material facilities surrounding the human biological body, no-matter how scientifically or technological advance our human society becomes.

The five realities achieved or realized in the mahat-tattva are – 1. The transcendental abode of Maha-Vishnu, Vishnu in the Vaikuntha’s or Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana, that is only realized as one awakens from their secondary relocated consciousness and realizes whom they really are serving Krishna ‘outside’ of the mahat-tattva.

2. The sub-space subtly refined heavenly and vulgar hellish material universes where the jiva-bhutah consciousness is constrained in ethereal bodies.

3. The secular-space middle gross material universes where the ethereal vessel is further restricted in a biological container.

4. The hard and awkward liberation from both those vehicle constraints, where the jiva-bhutah amends into a ‘dormant’ transformation called the jiva-nikaya motionless consciousness which becomes (not enters) as another individual inactive consciousness (tatastra-sakti) and part and parcel of the Brahma-sayujya or Impersonal Brahmajyoti.

5. Merging (as an individual dormant consciousness) into the body of Maha-Vishnu either by choice or forced to at the time of annihilation of the material universes.

Where there is life, then there is either an embodied jiva-bhutah moving those single celled biological organisms, or they may also be moved by Maha-Vishnu’s all-pervasive aspect. This happens all through the mahat-tattva, from Brahma down to the amoeba. In other words, if no embodied jiva-bhutah is available to fill those ‘posts’ within the mahat-tattva, then Maha-Vishnu expands Himself to ‘fill in the gaps’ in order to facilitate those few who have abandoned their service to Krishna by ‘consciously’ leaving their unique Krishna Conscious perpetual jivatma-vigraha body.

Due to that choice, the jiva-bhutah consciousness foolishly takes shelter within the mahat-tattva dark cloud. Within this dark cloud or material manifestation, there only exists the phenomenon of decay, impermanence and forgetfulness, even on the opulent heavenly planets within the mahat-tattva where one can live in an ethereal vessel for tens of thousands of years, which is the goal of Jews, Christians, Muslims and some schools of Buddhism, the heavenly planets are only temporary. These frustrating impermanent qualities do not exist outside the mahat-tattva in the surrounding Vaikuntha Planets. To achieve the mahat-tattva, one does not have to first forget Krishna, no, that is not possible in the Vaikuntha realm, forgetfulness only comes after entering the mahat-tattva.

One chooses to leave Krishna which simultaneously means they leave behind, in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, their perpetual unadulterated body that is their genuine self simply because they want to enjoy existence on their own terms without Krishna. This is only achieved through conscious projection or teleportation. (Many Vaishnava’s are not familiar with the many terminologies in this book however, if we are to correctly understand the origin of the jiva soul, then such terminologies are necessary for explaining that we all originate from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha)

Due to the perpetual nature of the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha’s, ones original body is always there even if one has ‘consciously’ extend themselves to the mahat-tattva. For the purpose of allowing the choices of His marginal potency-jivatma-vigraha devotee’s, Krishna has created the mahat-tattva cloud via His Maha-Vishnu expansion. In this way, be it in the Vaikuntha’s or the mahat-tattva, Krishna is the only provider.

March 23, 2007

CONTINUATION

The biological bodily garments (8,400,000 of them) cover the ethereal vessel, which contains or embodies the transmitted jiva-bhutah or jiva-sakti-secondary relocated consciousness. As already explained but needs to be emphasized, this transferred jiva-bhutah secondary consciousness originates from ones authentic perpetual bodily-self (nitya-siddha-svarupa-sat-cit-ananda-vigraha) that eternally exists in a loving servitor relationship with Krishna in either Vaikuntha or the more intimate Goloka-Vrndavana Kingdom of Radha, Krishna and Lord Chaitanya and their expansions and associates.

The extension of consciousness, transmitted from ones eternal Krishna Conscious body, or ones authentic, original and genuine bodily appearance, that is often referred to as the so-called marginal sparks or atoms in the effulgence, is only transferred (as a secondary self-centered consciousness) from ones perpetual bodily self to the containments of ethereal and biological vessels in the mahat-tattva (the dreams of Maha-Vishnu) when one wants to enjoy existence separately from Krishna. This choice is given to all marginal living entities in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha (vigraha’s) because without it there can never be genuine love or service?

Always chant Hare Krishna for the purpose of always remembering Krishna and to further gradually reawaken ones ‘old dormant original’ Krishna Consciousness, then these seemingly inconceivable topics can easily be understood regardless if one is a fallen rascal who previously selfishly and insensitively exploited the material world around them due to the diseased conditioned of their biological vessel, caused by the individual embodied soul’s (life force or jiva-bhutah’s entrapment within ethereal and biological containments) accumulation and crushing build-up of an overwhelming avalanche of Karmic reactions!

Srila Prabhupada and Lord Chaitanya (the most merciful combination of Radha and Krishna) have come to save such delinquent souls from their accretion and devastating massive karmic backlog that is like an overpowering flood forcing one in the opposite direction to where they are trying to swim! Such souls have forgotten they have all been transferred as the jiva-bhutah consciousnesses that have emigrated to the mahat-tattva as a secondary consciousness that was originally transmitted from their authentic innovative perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily form outside of the confines of ethereal and biological vessels. Such impermanent vessels are the part and parcels of the mahat-tattva. In this way one’s eternal consciousness does not belong to the mahat-tattva or the ethereal and biological vessels one is presently housed in.

Srila Prabhupada, the great pure devotee of Lord Chaitanya (the most merciful combination of Radha and Krishna) has come to save such delinquent souls and finally direct them back home back to Godhead.

There are two kinds of sayujya-mukti: merging into the Brahman effulgence and merging into the personal body of the Lord. Merging into the Lord's body is even more abominable than merging into His effulgence. According to the opinion of the Mayavadi Vedantists, the living entity's ultimate success is to merge into the impersonal Brahman after being liberated from ethereal and biological vessels inside the dreams of Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva cloud.

Krishna is the source of both the Personal Goloka-Vrndavana realm and the less significant Impersonal mahat-tattva cloud.

The impersonal Brahman, or bodily effulgence of the Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva, is known as Brahmaloka or Siddhaloka. According to the Brahma-samhita (5.40), yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti: the material universes are generated from the bodily rays Maha-Vishnu. Some Impersonalist Yogis accept the form of Maha-Vishnu yet want to merge into the transcendental body of the Supreme Lord. That is their desire, however this is only possible within the mahat-tattva. Being the creator and facilitator of the mahat-tattva, Maha-Vishnu can easily allow many millions of living entities to merge their transmitted jiva-nikaya consciousness into His body. The origin of everything is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavan, and Maha-Vishnu is his expansion within the mahat-tattva, His bodily effulgence is known as the brahmajyoti, Brahmaloka or Siddhaloka. Thus Brahmaloka or Siddhaloka is a place where the jiva-nikaya ‘inactive’ consciousness appears as sparklike and in total denial of their original authentic bodily form outside of the mahat-tattva cloud.

This jivatma-vigraha bodily Krishna Conscious form is the authentic constitutional position of all of Krishna’s marginal potency or energy.

Because these living entities dare to enter the mahat-tattva cloud and eventually do not wish to keep their individual existences due to the despair, frustration and suffering they experience in ethereal and biological vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu within His the dreams, they are combined individually together and allowed to remain in Brahmaloka like so many atomic particles of sunshine emanating from the sun. Such a condition of the inactive motionless transmitted conscious state is not possible outside the domain of the mahat-tattva cloud (where the perpetual Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti exists)

The word siddha is very significant. Siddha refers to one who has realized the Brahman effulgence from the confines of their ethereal or biological vessel within the mahat-tattva. The word siddha means they have achieved complete knowledge, only after many, many births, realising the living entity is not a material atom, but a spiritual spark, however Impersonalist yogis and transcendentalists, including many advanced Vaishnava’s, still do not recognize the fact that the ‘spiritual spark’ or consciousness is originally transferred to the mahat-tattva as the jiva-bhutah consciousness, this is why such projected consciousness has no substantial form or substance, therefore their siddha realization is incomplete. This is because it is a secondary conscious condition transmitted from ones authentic body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha. This means they are only realizing they are not the ethereal and biological vessels and are yet to recognise the transcendental bodily source of that secondary marginal projected conscious counterfeit self. This inactive conscious state achieved after passing through the ‘dreams of Maha-Vishnu’ is described in the Bhagavad-gita as brahma-bhuta. Those who realize the self, or become brahma-bhuta, are only preparing themselves for the platform of joyfulness. That joyfulness can be actually re-established only when one comes into contact with Krishna.

In the ethereal and biological conditioned state, the living entity is known as jiva-bhuta, or "the living force within those containers." Brahma-bhuta living entities are allowed to stay in Brahmaloka or Siddhaloka within the mahat-tattva, but unfortunately they again fall into the material world because they are not engaged in devotional service. After all, their inherent nature, like their authentic body their secondary consciousness is transmitted from, is meant to always be active. This is supported by the verse in Srimad-Bhagavatam beginning ye 'nye 'ravindaksha. (Bhag. 10.2.32) These semi liberated souls falsely claim to be liberated, but unless one engages in devotional service to the Lord, he is still materially contaminated. Therefore these living entities have been described as vimukta-maninah, meaning that they falsely consider themselves liberated although their intelligence is not yet purified enough to recognise the Krishna Conscious bodily source of there present condition Although these living entities undergo severe austerities within ethereal and biological vessels to rise to the platform of Siddhaloka, they cannot remain there perpetually (that is only possible outside of the mahat-tattva), for they are bereft of ananda (bliss). Even though these living entities attain the brahma-bhuta stage and realize Maha-Vishnu through His bodily effulgence, they nonetheless fall down due to neglecting the Lord's service. They do not properly utilize whatever little knowledge they have of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not attaining ananda, or bliss, they come down to the material world to enjoy again in the confines of ethereal and biological vessels or bodies.. The devotees of Krishna who are gradually reawakening their ‘old’ Krishna Consciousness and who are gradually withdrawing their transmitted consciousness back to ONES Krishna Conscious bodily source, consider such a falldown equal to achieving a place in hell.

Technically there is no structure to the individual jiva-soul in its manifestation within the illusionary dream world of the material universe (mahat-tattva) because it is only transmitted consciousness. It is simply ‘dreaming projected consciousness’ moulded by NON-Krishna Conscious thoughts, desires and eventually karma. There is no difference between desires, thoughts and actions on the absolute level, therefore such dreams are a real reality yet are temporary. Unlike the perpetual Vaikuntha realm, the mahat-tattva is perishable. If one projects their consciousness to the mahat-tattva, then they enter a temporary universe governed by past, present, future, decay birth and death. We call that ‘projected transmitted consciousnesses’, the life force or soul in English. The Vedas call the life force the jiva, jiva-sakti or jiva-bhutah among a few and explains how the jiva (soul) enters the impermanent material universe. Those non-Krishna Conscious thoughts first begin simultaneously, the consequences of this is forgetting Krishna and ones real eternal Krishna Conscious Krishna Conscious atma (self)-vigraha (form) body.

There is no difference between desires, thoughts and actions on the absolute level.

After ‘consciously’ leaving the Kingdom of God (Krishna), the transmitted jiva-soul-consciousness becomes covered by its own generated ethereal body, moulded by non-Krishna Conscious desires and thoughts, eventually the ethereal body further generates a biological body, this is where the distinction between desires, thoughts and actions begin to manifest and Karma begins to exist. This is very difficult to understand, what is written here in ‘THE SECRET BOOK OF ORIGINS’, is how this happens and is also the correct understanding of what the jiva (life force) is and where it originates. The Sanskrit word jiva in this thesis means transmitted consciousness that originates from its eternal individual Krishna Conscious atma (self)-vigraha (form) foundation in Krishna’s perpetual abode. Lord Krishna’s eternal Kingdom is known as Goloka-Vrndavana, or the Kingdom of God. Some scholars call the atma-vigraha body, the jiva or atma however, to make this book easier to understand, the Sanskrit word JIVA refers to the transmitted forgetful consciousness that emanates from the eternal and never changing Krishna Conscious atma-vigraha body that is always serving Krishna (God) in Goloka-Vrndavana.

March 23, 2007

CONTINUATION

The forgetful Krishna Consciousness of the individual atma-vigraha personalities in Goloka-Vrindavan is called the televised transmitted jiva (Sanskrit word for life force) soul (English word for life force) consciousness that reverberates sub-conscious thoughts of non-Krishna Conscious origins (desires) that broadcast the realism-dream-state-illusion of the impermanent material universe

The Complete Whole, or the Supreme Absolute Truth, is the complete Personality of Godhead. Realization of impersonal Brahman or of Paramatma, the Supersoul, is incomplete realization of the Absolute Complete. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha. Realization of impersonal Brahman is realization of His sat feature, or His aspect of eternity, and Paramatma realization is realization of His sat and cit features, His aspects of eternity and knowledge. But realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all the transcendental features--sat, cit and ananda, bliss. When one realizes the Supreme Person, he realizes these aspects of the Absolute Truth in their completeness. Vigraha means "form." Thus the Complete Whole is not formless and neither are His marginal sparks. If He or they were formless, or if He were less than His creation in any other way, He could not be complete. The Complete Whole must contain everything both within and beyond our experience; otherwise He cannot be complete.

The Complete Whole, the Personality of Godhead, has immense potencies, all of which are as complete as He is. Thus this phenomenal world is also complete in itself. The twenty-four elements of which this material universe is a temporary manifestation are arranged to produce everything necessary for the maintenance and subsistence of this universe. No other unit in the universe need make an extraneous effort to try to maintain the universe. The universe functions on its own time scale, which is fixed by the energy of the Complete Whole, and when that schedule is completed, this temporary manifestation will be annihilated by the complete arrangement of the Complete Whole.

All facilities are given to the small complete units (namely the living beings OR JIVATMA-VIGRAHA’S) to enable them to realize the Complete Whole. All forms of incompleteness are experienced due to incomplete knowledge of the Complete Whole. The human form of life is a complete manifestation of the consciousness of the living being, and it is obtained after evolving through 8,400,000 species of life in the cycle of birth and death. If in this human life of full consciousness the living entity does not realize his completeness in relation to the Complete Whole, he loses the chance to realize his completeness and is again put into the evolutionary cycle by the law of material nature.

The Kingdom of God (Krishna) is an Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional abode of unlimited pastimes that is forever lasting and never aging. Krishna’s marginal potency or energy are eternal servants known as the atma- (self)-jiva- (soul)-vigraha (unending form) transcendental body (the soul's real spiritual Krishna Conscious self and form). All marginal bodily individuals can never fall down to the material universe nevertheless; it does not mean one can never fall down from their perpetual bodily self.

How is this paradox possible when one can never fall down, yet also fall down?

On the absolute level ones thoughts, dreams and desires are real however, when one no longer wants to be with Krishna, such dreams and desires become temporary and can only exist in that condition in the mahat-tattva.

How this happens is through a secondary conscious transformation that is activated when one no longer desires to be with Krishna. Such fall down is only ‘consciously’ feasible by means of a transformative capability made achievable by a secondary conscious version of the self that is transmitted from ones original authentic body and out of the Vaikuntha realm and the projected into the mahat-tattva cloud. Remember, during this transformation of consciousness, ones perpetual Krishna Conscious atma-jiva-vigraha body always remains in its original devotional position within the Vaikuntha’s or Goloka-Vrndavana and can ever never fall down. The secondary conscious lower self is transmitted as consciousness called the jiva-bhutah or jiva-sakti consciousness. This secondary consciousness is an extension of one’s real perpetual self and form that is eternally serving in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrndavana and only manifests or comes into existence when one denies their original Krishna Consciousness.

When the light of Krishna Consciousness is there, this dark sub-conscious version of the self (jiva-bhutah) cannot exist however, when such dark consciousness does exist, one can longer see whom they really are serving Krishna.

As emphasized, one never falls down as their permanent devotional Krishna conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa-sat-cit-ananda-jivatma-vigraha–bodily form. As soon as one desires to enjoy or take pleasure in their existence separately from Krishna, they are only sub-consciously transferred to the mahat-tattva or material impermanent manifestation where they can shape, carve out and choose their own ethereal and biological vessels and destiny that are all provided within the mahat-tattva by the dreaming Maha-Vishnu. In this way it must be clearly understood that ones secondary projected consciousness is the jiva-bhutah or jiva-sakti lower self, which is only activated when one no longer wants to serve Krishna in His perpetual Kingdom in their perpetual bodies in either Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrndavana.

When we foolishly deny who we are as Krishna’s eternal servant, then struggle against our devotional inheritance or nature, uncertainty develops and cause our ‘now limited jiva-bhutah conscious awareness’ to become covered by ethereal and biological bodies or vessels that impound our consciousness (jiva-bhutah) within the restricted realms of the mahat-tattva. Eventually, after many births, we loose control over who we have imagined ourselves to be within the mahat-tattva. In our continual search for happiness; we frantically possess millions upon millions of different ethereal and biological bodily identities and personalities however, non of them gives us permanent pleasure because of the impermanent nature of the material universe or mahat-tattva..

The natural eternal constitutional position of ‘ones ‘authentic bodily self' (atma-jiva-vigraha Krishna Conscious bodily form) is forever engaged in an infinite number of pastimes and relationships serving Krishna. Nitya-siddha, or our eternal constitutional marginal condition of servitude or loving selfless unconditional devotion to Krishna, is the ultimate natural, original and perpetually nature of ones innovative active Krishna Conscious state. Such a Krishna Conscious condition is our genuine bodily form or self that is forever dedicated to devotional selfless service to Krishna and His pure devotees.

Our atma-jiva-vigraha perpetual Krishna Conscious body represents what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never decays or changes yet at the same time there are always unlimited transcendental changes and devotional adjustments going on within unlimited pastimes that are illimitable active in the present, beyond the concept of past and future, birth or death.

The Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha (the supreme imperishable Kingdom of God) feature of the Spiritual Sky exists in the majority of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti (3/4 of the creation). It is a place where past and future does not exist because everything there is imperishable and exists always in the eternal present beyond our material understanding of time and space.

Only within a dark cloud (1/4 of creation) that is also existing in Spiritual Sky (Known as the mahat-tattva or material universe) does impermanence, past, present, future, birth, death, suffering, impermanence and forgetfulness exist and always moving in cycles, i.e., the cycle of birth and death, the cycle of Yugas or ages, the cycle of the climatic seasons etc. These qualities of decline and regeneration do not exist within the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha realm. Only within Lila-rasa or the mellows of ones personal pastime with Krishna, does eternal farsightedness exists in diverse behavioural ways of outward manifestations (relationships) and ‘seasons of seemingly change’ according to rasa (pastimes with Krishna and His devotees) that never needs regeneration because it never ages or fades.

The atma-jiva-vigraha devotee’s are sometimes referred to as marginal spiritual sparks and Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead however, both are distinct as individual Persons, atma-vigraha devotees or Purushas meaning “Individual Persons" with bodily form in the sense of a conscious spirit. Both God (Krishna) and the individual spirits (atma-jiva-vigraha devotee’s) are purushas, but Krishna is the Adi (Original, exemplary) Purusha, Parama (Highest) Purusha, and the Purushottama (Best of the Purushas or atma-vigraha bodily personalities), and Krishna the Supreme Atma-Vigraha or Purushas.

The finite atma-jiva-vigraha devotee’s are always subservant to Krishna or His various expansions including Maha-Vishnu who is the provider and facilitator of the material manifestation or mahat-tattva. Krishna is their provider in all aspects of existence even when they ‘consciously’ (or transmitted consciousness that is called the jiva-bhutah or jiva-sakti) choose to leave Vaikuntha and enter the material universe or mahat-tattva where Maha-Vishnu provides the ethereal and biological vessels that facilitates the jiva-bhutah’s or jiva-sakti’s non-Krishna conscious desires. In the Vedas and Puranas all Persons as their marginal identity are distinct individuals with a perpetual bodily form that is the authentic identity of the ‘so-called’ spiritual spark, so for Vaishnavas, it is not difficult to understand the eternal personal existence of the finite jivatmas (atma-vigraha devotee’s) in relationship to the infinite Deity Paramatma (Lord Krishna) is always personal and ones original constitutional position is an eternal bodily person eternally serving Krishna.

Such Lila’s or pastimes although, can change in the Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha feature of the Spiritual Universe in ways that can only be understood as one genuinely re-awakens their 'old' and original Krishna Conscious bodily identity and withdrawal their extended transmitted secondary consciousness (jiva-bhutah) from the confines of ethereal and biological vessels ensnared within the material universe (mahat-tattva). And even then, after withdrawing from the dream of Maha-Vishnu (the Over-Lord and facilitator of the mahat-tattva) and giving up the ethereal and biological containers at their root cause, which is the desire to enjoy separately from Krishna, can one again take up their original position in the Kingdom of God (Krishna).

Because we do not know that there is a complete arrangement in nature for our maintenance, we make efforts to utilize the resources of nature to create a so-called complete life of sense enjoyment. Because the living entity cannot enjoy the life of the senses without being dovetailed with the Complete Whole, the misleading life of sense enjoyment is illusion. The hand of a body is a complete unit only as long as it is attached to the complete body. When the hand is severed from the body, it may appear like a hand, but it actually has none of the potencies of a hand. Similarly, living beings are part and parcel of the Complete Whole, and if they are severed from the Complete Whole, the illusory representation of completeness cannot fully satisfy them.

The completeness of human life can be realized only when one engages in the service of the Complete Whole. All services in this world--whether social, political, communal, international or even interplanetary--will remain incomplete until they are dovetailed with the Complete Whole. When everything is dovetailed with the Complete Whole, the attached parts and parcels also become complete in themselves.

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The Origin of Jiva (jiva-tattva)

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