Vaishnavam and Islam

[Guest guest]

>>>>I think the jews are very well responsible for the militancy and the corruption (the zero spiritual knowledge and extreme bakthy) of faith in islam which seem to have had a very highly spiritual evolution in the past. The jew took away the roti-kapada-makan of muslims and made their under lying intolerance appear as though it was a flaw in their religion.<<<<<<

 

Exactly. The jews have created many "wonderful " doctrines taken over by Muslims. But they use a smokecurtain by always critisizing Muslims and Christians like we see on this forum.

 

 

Good work

[Sephiroth 0]

Perhaps the jews knew this was coming for their own doing. The jews should own the problem and address the problem without the help of US and without sympathy from their II-Word War situation.

 

And in what did Jews had it (Holocaust) coming? Mind enlightnment me a bit to some unknown cause (Karma) to extend that nearly 3 million Jews have to die in hands of animals during World War 2.

 

At least Japan suffering from the two nuclear bombs is acceptable because of their violent attitude during the War and many Japanese today accepted it. But what did the Jews do?

 

While you at it, mind explaining why Muslims should be pitied after they invaded countries all the way to India and resulted in millions of death?

 

The jews need to fix it, and they should become an example to the rest of the world for peace & tolerance. The jews can live well in this world without the victim-image of the World-war II. This may be an opportunity to shed that by helping the muslims with their basic human/family needs for their children to grow.

 

Explain to me why I (presenting Jews here, since my nickname comes from Jewish origin), MUST be bothered with the needs of Muslims?

[Sephiroth 0]

pl read David Frawley before making any comment. His is a must be read for any Hindu.

 

Hindus should read what some white man said about Hindusm in order to understand Hindusm? Very funny.

 

What writen in the Historical Datas and Archological finds is enough for me. It is not a single person's account of what he think is right but data which is accepted and proven by numerous historians and archeologists with proof.

 

My proof is Mitochondria Eve Theory, Out-Of-Africa Theory, Studiest on Rosatta Stone (regarding ancient civilization in Mesotamphia region) and many more.

 

Your proof is this person named David Frawley.

[Guest guest]

As there is no reason why the Jews cannot live without the victim-image, similarly there is no point comparing the victim-images of Jews/Japanese/Muslims.

 

You Jews should learn from those women who are tired of the general victim-image of being expoited in society, and are willing to move forward. They are from all breadths of life. I heard an interview of a senior corporate womam recently which concluded with a question to her regarding her message to all aspiring women, and she said she thinks the discussion of women/men is not a factor for success in corporate.

 

Alternatively, you should learn from the rest of the women who sing the song of being victims in society be it of husbands, children or whoever. They live every opportunity to tell a story of themselves as a victim of circumstances. This is true if these women marry again or receive a pleasent surprise from their new boy-friend etc. So there is only a false feeling of advantage by projecting yourself as a victim in society.

 

Therefore my answer to your first three question is, Prove it to me that Jews of TODAY CANNOT live without their historical image of Holocaust-victims.

 

The answer to the second question is that the entire world is becoming a victim of the inward-looking Jews.

 

-The terrorism from palestine is being globalised.

 

-Lots more muslims are considering themselves as victims in their home-country WW by continously relating their situation to that of the muslims in Isreal.

 

-With the involvement of imams and religious leaders, the palestine issue is not becoming viewed as a roti-kapada-makan issue, but lot volatile.

 

-But for jews the muslims would have been a far more tolerent religion

 

-The world is paying a huge price to entertain a community as victims of the past. This price the world pays will get lot bigger, if we don't stop this psuedo emotion of considering the jewish community as holocaust-victims.

 

Jews should help the fellow muslims voluntarily without waiting for a permission or help from US or other european countries. Jews should just do it. They will only benefit. They should resign from the psuedo-fear of the holocaust.

 

Agreed, that the jews require to seperately take help to overcome the fear of the holocaust repeating itself, similar to that of a tsunami-affected victim or that of the mumbai-floods.

[aqua3 0]

Words speak a hundred meaning... Indeed. You have your words to speak about you, your awareness level and spiritual growth.

 

A simple information. Dr David Frawley is a very respected person in academic and spiritual circles, who has been named as Vama deva by his Guru, since he possessed such kind of knowledge that the Vedic rishi Vama deva possessed. The rest about him is spoken by his works, as in his case his works speak not just a hundred but thousands of meanings which reveal the ancient knowledge of Vediks and Ayurveda, Jyothis and so on, besides the spiritual development he has attained!!

 

He is an easy guide to the seekers who have not yet realised the worth of looking into sruti texts.

[Guest guest]

Jews should help muslims ? Why ?

 

This is the nonsense I keep hearing, after knowing the fact that Islam itself preaches hatred towards non-muslims.

 

If you do not know what Islam teaches, then perhaps it is time that you not write nonsense.

 

and what is this . called victim image of Jews.

 

Israel is the only country that is technologically and ethically advanced in all of middle east. A Hindu can go to Israel and be sure that he would not be beheaded under blasphemy laws unlike Saudi Arabia.

 

Jews are far more loving and tolerant than the muslims of middle east.

 

Can you answer why muslims are fighting for independence in Kashmir, the only muslim majority state in India ?

 

When muslims are minority they will talk about co-existence, peace etc., but when they get majority they will kill and drive away all non-muslims. Examples are Pakistan, Bangladesh and now Kashmir.

 

During Islamic rule muslims forceibly converted Hindus through military, kaws etc.

 

These are not some isolated issues, but happened and is happenning even today consistently. If people do not learn from history it would lead to destruction of the non-muslim societies.

 

It is time to know what Islam teaches.

 

Please visit www.faithfreedom.org

 

As for Jews, if they are simply exploiting victim image like muslims, then Israel would not be advanced in technology, Jews cannot be as successful as they are in America and other countries.

 

Please answer the question of Sephirot, why did Jews suffer in Germany ? What is that they did do Germans that they were killed in gas chambers including young children etc.

[Guest guest]

 

And in the Gita, it is said that both Narayana AND Rudra IS the Brahman. Case closed, I know which to believe.

 

 

 

Mr. Sephiroth,

 

I know of no such verse.

 

Would you mind citing it ?

[Guest guest]

Branded religion have believed in conversion with the priciple that 'believe in my god, else athiests are unwanted'.

 

The conversion to branded & global religion is no value add to the individual, especially when considering peace-of-mind.

 

I feel most people of branded religion should break down to their own localised faith and perhaps rebrand their religion, so that the community can live in peace so long as their locality is in peace, no matter what goes on across the world.

 

The case of Jews during the holocaust is a unthinkable. Jews are highlighly enterprising in nature and contribute to the world immensely. The holocaust-victim image of jews is only going to hurt the full potential of jews as the holocaust don't make good bed-time stories for any young jewish generation. The jews might require mental rehabilitation measures to forget their victim-image and realise their true potential. Instead what the world has given the jews is a country fenced up and closed, so designed to protect themselves from a future possibility of attack against them. This is irrelevant and the world is wasting a whole lot of resources for this.

 

The world is also paying a price as it allows hatred from muslims who have lost their homes to isreal.

 

Jews have so much potential that they can help the palestinians to make their homes. And also demonstrate their potential to contribute to the world. Instead they live a closed life in isreal, only to make sure that they create enemies (palestinians and muslims at large) with similar vengance like the nazi's against them. This is not good for the jews anyway. How is your questions regarding the holocaust going to help the jews of today to move forward.

[Guest guest]

{Right now, we see Hindus trying to misinterprete their religions in attempt to bring in Christians and entertain Muslims. Muslims and Christians themselves attempt to modify Vedas and misinterprete the Gita to fit their religion.}

 

Ah yes, very true. There have even been some moron hindus that tried to make out that jesus and mohammed were avatars of God, even though their message is different. These hindus always shy away from explaining how come the religions' messages are so contradictory.

 

{Point no. 2 - Aryans didn't bring the Vedas (like what some may believe), they brought Writing skills to India. This writing skills were used by Hindus at that time to write down their beliefs which were passed down by oral before}

 

But it's hard to believe that the Vedic civilasation being so great but still couldn't work out how to write and needed outside help from Aryans to learn how to write. What was the language of Aryans at that time since they were from outside India? By the way the Vedas mention the Aryas, but if the Vedas were passed down through oral tradition before the Aryas (Aryans) came into India, which Aryas were the Vedas alredy talking about?

 

SM744,

 

Are you even aware of what the muslims did to jews when they got the power? Mohammed even went to take over Jewish lands. The muslims even made the claim that all the jewish prophets were really muslim and the jews twisted Islam into Judaism. Isn't this a terrible insult! Imagine if they said "Krishna was a muslim prophet and he spoke about Islam, it's just that you wicked Hindus twisted his teachings into Hinduism". I think Jews have every right to dislike muslims.

 

By the way the problem India or Hindus have with muslims have nothing to do wiht the Jews and everything to do with the muslims.

[Sephiroth 0]

As there is no reason why the Jews cannot live without the victim-image, similarly there is no point comparing the victim-images of Jews/Japanese/Muslims.

 

Statement from someone stuck and cannot speak. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Yes, there IS point in comparing victim-image (as you called it) of Jew, Japanese and Muslims(?).

The past 1,400 years, Jews have been victims of Christianity and Islam - Fact.

Japanese suffered the atomic bombs because of their Karma (actions during the war) - Fact.

Muslims are suffering - False.

 

Therefore my answer to your first three question is, Prove it to me that Jews of TODAY CANNOT live without their historical image of Holocaust-victims.

 

You answered NOTHING. My question was : WHAT evil events that Jews had done to the extend that Holocaust was acceptable to occur on them?

 

Let's look at the problems from your own statement :

 

-The terrorism from palestine is being globalised.

Who conduct Terrorism? Muslims who cannot accept the peace treaty from negoitations since 1950s.

 

-Lots more muslims are considering themselves as victims in their home-country WW by continously relating their situation to that of the muslims in Isreal.

 

Who's playing Victim-Image now, huh? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Jews are not responsible for delusional fools who consider themselves as Victims. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

-With the involvement of imams and religious leaders, the palestine issue is not becoming viewed as a roti-kapada-makan issue, but lot volatile.

 

Again, nothing to do with Jews. This is affairs of Muslims as Imans and their leaders are more concern about waging war than living.

 

-But for jews the muslims would have been a far more tolerent religion

 

Islam NEVER was a tolerant religion and NEVER WILL BE one either. To say otherwise is to say Muslims NEVER invaded India and other countries.

 

-The world is paying a huge price to entertain a community as victims of the past. This price the world pays will get lot bigger, if we don't stop this psuedo emotion of considering the jewish community as holocaust-victims.

 

The so-called drama of "We are the Victims here" is played out by Muslims who have NO interest in living a proper lives. The religion didn't promote peace, their imans and leaders WILL NOT promote peace and Muslims WILL NOT find peace.

 

Jews should help the fellow muslims voluntarily without waiting for a permission or help from US or other european countries. Jews should just do it. They will only benefit. They should resign from the psuedo-fear of the holocaust.

 

We don't have fear of the holocaust ... it is something which had passed and no use of crying over it (unlike some race who always do their level best to potray themselves as Victims).

 

Therefore, we don't need to help anyone for free without any beneficts for us. Instead of wasting the resources in helping a race which don't bother helping itself, we can use that resource in helping and advancing our own societies (that include non-Muslims like Hindus and Buddhist as well).

 

Agreed, that the jews require to seperately take help to overcome the fear of the holocaust repeating itself, similar to that of a tsunami-affected victim or that of the mumbai-floods.

 

The Holocaust WILL NOT repeat. Do you know why? Because the oppossers WILL be crushed and vanquished. It just matter of time.

 

In the past, Jews were separated from the World which surrounded by Christians and Muslims, so they view the entire world as an enemy and didn't learn other people's culture and religion. God changed that by allowing the Internet to come to be ... now Jews can approach other oppressed races who are in the same boat as they are (Hindus and Buddhists).

 

In the past, Jews were victims because of their depends on Christians and Muslims. Now, we will become something you need to depend on or perish.

 

Also, Jews were victims because they didn't have technology and Science to use. That has changing now with America (Jewish/Christian) being 2nd advantaged country in the world, Japan (Buddhist) being the 1st (because they are good at implementing what they learn) and IF India (Hindus) could only become like what it was a Trinity of Power which will ensure such thing as Holocaust will not occur again.

 

Also, Muslim nations are collapsing ... their time limit is almost up. Their powers resides in Oil (God given them to be fair also) and that will be finished in about 25 to 30 years or so. Japan already pionering in alternative fuel and America is trying to catch up. Muslims WILL be left behind to die a horrible death. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Sephiroth 0]

You have your words to speak about you, your awareness level and spiritual growth.

 

Yes, and I may agree that Dr. David Frawley is person who has deep awareness and good spiritual growth, but in the end, I don't know him.

 

All I know is God (whether you call Him Lord Vishnu or Lord Shiva) and all I trust is God, NOT fellow men's words which they themselves sometimes utter by mistake.

 

Truth hidden by God within your scriptures. God also gave you intelligence and awareness to grow by finding that Truth. That is your responsiblity, NOT to follow someone's words blindly just because he has the title "Doctor" in front of his name.

 

Did it not India recently stopped the usage of ALL NON-Medical personals from using the name "Doctor" in their initials?

[Sephiroth 0]

Ah yes, very true. There have even been some moron hindus that tried to make out that jesus and mohammed were avatars of God, even though their message is different. These hindus always shy away from explaining how come the religions' messages are so contradictory.

 

Beware of such people for they prey upon the unsuspecting and young ones in your society.

 

Also, Lack of knowledge and new meanings in old puranas is another reasons why such people can easily influence youngsters nowadays.

 

But it's hard to believe that the Vedic civilasation being so great but still couldn't work out how to write and needed outside help from Aryans to learn how to write. What was the language of Aryans at that time since they were from outside India?

 

Actually, India had its own writing system but it was not advanced as wha Aryans brought in.

 

According to excavations into Harappan civilizations, they have found an ancient writing systems which pre-dated the language brought in by Aryans. This shows that India had its own writing. Unfortunately, this writing didn't branch into other higher forms (like Aryan writing branch to Sankrit) and died out. Records found in Harappan ruins are left untranslated because of this factor.

 

Another factor on why India didn't produce its own writing is because, India didn't need one. India had one elements other ancient civilization didn't have (thus needed writing skills) - they had Brahmins.

 

We are talking about a specialized group of highly intelligence people who's sole purpose in existence was to memory (words for words) the Puranas and the Gita. This people are living libraries and also researchers, doctors, scientists and so on. And since they do not do other work, do not go to war and supported by the government, they have no other duties but to ensure that the puranas and Gita is well-perserved.

 

Maybe God knows Christians and Muslims going to come, so He send Hebrews with their writing skills first to ensure some of their old ways are perserved.

 

By the way the Vedas mention the Aryas, but if the Vedas were passed down through oral tradition before the Aryas (Aryans) came into India, which Aryas were the Vedas alredy talking about?

 

I believe the Aryas which Vedas spoke off is not the ones who brought the writings but the ones which lives in societies in Mesotamphia region up to 4,600 years.

 

The so-called "Invasion" is maybe the migration of Aryans after the flood into India and British could have mistaken Muslims for being Aryans (because both are white-skinned, settled in the northern section, do not mix much with dark-skinned Shivatties and also came from the West).

[Guest guest]

"Yes, there IS point in comparing victim-image (as you called it) of Jew, Japanese and Muslims(?). "

This is wierd. Why would anyone want to identify with a community which considers itself as victim and exploited for One thousand four hundred years. Jews are productive by nature and enterprising, and this victim-impression upon them will make their actions only imbalance any possibility of stability where-ever.

 

Here is your arrogance..

"The Holocaust WILL NOT repeat. Do you know why?..."

While you claim to be a theist, there is no sense of surrender by assuming that God is now in your side. Surrender is to say that you are in god's side.

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

This is wierd. Why would anyone want to identify with a community which considers itself as victim and exploited for One thousand four hundred years. Jews are productive by nature and enterprising, and this victim-impression upon them will make their actions only imbalance any possibility of stability where-ever.

 

Wrong ... do you know WHY Jews have become productive and enterprising by nature? Because Jews have been victimized by others. Instead of accepting it as faith, Jews strive forward in every field they could venture into while holding onto their own beliefs. Very much like what the Japanese (Buddhist) are doing now also, after their defeat in 1945s.

 

While you claim to be a theist, there is no sense of surrender by assuming that God is now in your side. Surrender is to say that you are in god's side.

 

Surrender which you spoke of and Surrender which I know of is two different thing.

 

For a Muslim, Surrender means do stupid things and say it is Will of God (like following how Muhammad wash his a$$). /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

For a Christian, Surrender means accept Jesus as Savior ... never mind the fact that no one (non-Christians) can proof whether he existed or not. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

For a Hindu, Surrender means to devoid of taking fruits of the action and summit it to God, thus cutting one's self from the Karma which follows due to that action.

 

For Buddhist, same as above except Buddhist do not summit it to God but avoid doing something with negavite (or positive) emotions.

 

For a Jewish person, it same as above, do according to what Laws had stated and hope God will be happy with your conducts according to the Laws. In this context, Jews srive to make God happy (not themselves) by their conducts.

 

The twisted Surrender here is Muslims ... they summit actions, NOT fruits of the actions. The fruits is still theirs to enjoy (pleasure or pain, love or hate, anger or calmness etc). This is because Muhammad taught them how to summit action but not the fruit of the actions.

[Guest guest]

Jews cannot be compared with Japan or anyother in the scale of enemity they have developed in the last couple of decades. Japan does not have enemies of the scale of muslim palestine which is pulling together a force across the world with it. Muslim palestine problem is a creation in the backyard of the jews, and the world is paying a price for it.

 

Jews should own the problem and fix it without the help of

-USA

-Other european nations

-Muslim oil rich countries

-without religious bodies ever taking any credit for it

 

Jew should fix their palestinian muslim problem just as good neighbours are expected. Else every neighbourhood of muslims living across the world can be affected with this jewish behaviour, over a period of time.

 

Sephiroth, You make a personal opinion that the jewish nature to be enterprising is due to their ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED YEARS of stigmatized living as victims of circumstances.

Longevity of their creations is guranteed only if the jews become enteprising without the stigma of being victims. I hope your personal opinionons on jews are worng. Else jews will be only inviting upon themselves an un-natural speed of the natures cycle of creation & destruction. It's the worlds way of saying that it can live without such pseudo productivity.

[Sephiroth 0]

Again, you have demonstrated that you do not know History.

 

Jews cannot be compared with Japan or anyother in the scale of enemity they have developed in the last couple of decades. Japan does not have enemies of the scale of muslim palestine which is pulling together a force across the world with it.

 

Japan had BIGGER problem than Hebrews (Jews) did. They had enemies who were Koreans and Chinese for nearly 300 years or more. Over a dozen assaults were launched by Koreans throughtout History in order to capture Japan and Japanese held on.

 

The deep hatred of this can still be felt today also. In 1930s when China and Korea was in the receiving end, the Japanese return the Koreans' and Chinese's treatment back to them tenfold. But when they lost to Americans (and sacrificed 200,000 people in two days), Japanese adapted Buddhism and learn that, Karma is a wheel. One day you on top, the next day, you under it.

 

What you see today is Koreans and Chinese trying to rekindle their hatred toward Japan again, unsatisfied with the blows and humililations they receive and wanted to return the favour to Japan. Japan, adopting Ahimsa-type of reactions still holding firm to peace.

 

Muslim palestine problem is a creation in the backyard of the jews, and the world is paying a price for it.

 

And WHO and WHERE may I ask did did the Kashmir problem was created? And Al Queda problem? Philipine Muslim Separation problem? Fighting in South Thailand problem? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Muslim-lovers like you can only see others as problem, not themselves. Real problem is Islam itself. Islam had taught that Muslims (peaceful ones) after their dead will remain in the ground for a long period. If they become good Muslims, they will not be harmed but if they were bad Muslims, they will be tortured till Judgement Day.

 

In Judgement Day itself, this dead ones will be brought out, questioned again, and those who did not follow Islamic ways will be damned to hell permanently.

 

This fear of double-damnation is what fuels Muslims to continue to fight. They are not fighting injustice of others toward them, they are fighting injustice of their God (according to Islam) toward them.

 

And also, since those who died as Shayids (matrydom) do not receive punishment in the grave (while waiting for the actual punishment), it only added fire to their wanting to die a meaningless death in terrorist ways.

 

So, don't blame terrorism to Jews for Jews have not spoilt your religion, took what is not ours, withheld what supposed to be your rightfull and such. Islam IS the source of terrorism as it gives deep fear in hearts of its followers.

 

Jews should own the problem and fix it without the help of

-USA

-Other european nations

-Muslim oil rich countries

-without religious bodies ever taking any credit for it

 

Hahahaha ... You should preach what you demand others. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Who do Muslims look for peace plans? Muslim nations? No ... USA.

Who runs to European nations to support other Muslims, especially during 1980s draught, Palestine Peace Plan, Economics and such? Muslims.

 

Jews don't owe anything to or except anything from Muslim oil nations. Matter a fact, Muslim oil nations do not do anything for fellow Muslims, WHAT makes you think they will do anything for Jews?

 

Jews (or Hindus or Buddhist for that matter) has NO religious body which takes ANY credits for ANYTHING. Christians had Vaticans and Muslims have OIC ... both are useless, by the way.

 

Jew should fix their palestinian muslim problem just as good neighbours are expected. Else every neighbourhood of muslims living across the world can be affected with this jewish behaviour, over a period of time.

 

We are trying ... cannot get tanks throught into your district to blow you all to hell. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Besides, Muslims fight not because of justice, they fight because of their injust religion (toward themselves). They are commiting suicide in mass scale. Hardly any reason why Jews needs to be blamed for your religion. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Longevity of their creations is guranteed only if the jews become enteprising without the stigma of being victims. I hope your personal opinionons on jews are worng. Else jews will be only inviting upon themselves an un-natural speed of the natures cycle of creation & destruction. It's the worlds way of saying that it can live without such pseudo productivity.

 

Wrong ... God will look after His Chosen Flocks. Despite of over 1,000 years of abuse, ONLY two religions still stands the test of time - Judaism and Hindusm. That alone shows who God is with.

 

We don't need your sympathy when we have God by our side, do we? Save your sympathies for your brethen when the oil supply finishes and Muslims split apart even further than now.

[Guest guest]

Guest 2.

Much of what you wrote is strange that you believe it all but let me stick to this :

 

--Are you even aware of what the muslims did to jews when they got the power? Mohammed even went to take over Jewish lands. The muslims even made the claim that all the jewish prophets were really muslim and the jews twisted Islam into Judaism. Isn't this a terrible insult! Imagine if they said "Krishna was a muslim prophet and he spoke about Islam, it's just that you wicked Hindus twisted his teachings into Hinduism". I think Jews have every right to dislike muslims----

 

Who told you the Jewish land is taken by muslims? Maybe history lesson will help you to know what you say next time , my friend. Before Jews(original homeland area Iraq) came to Palestina( ancient name before name Israel ) led by Moses and followers, Palestina was inhabited by non-Jew semitic tribe like Kanaan. When jew came , war happened, and they were all slaughtered by jews ( you can also read in oldtestament ). Everyone, woman, child,ordered to killed by their god. Then it became Jeish land called Judea. Then it became persian. Then the Roman Empire took the lands, then Christian Byzantines ( greek/romans ). After that the Muslim Arabs and later Turks take over. Please study this and tell me if the Muslim took land of Jews or land of christian. From 700-1900 AD Palestina was in hands of Muslim ( offcourse there was also a periode Christian Crusaders ) , with christians and small jewish tribe( 500.000 muslim, 100.000 christian, 20.000 jew 1800 AD ). Check what I said please.

 

800 AD Muslim took over Nord Africa and Spain from Christians, Jew came with them and had peace in Spain and Arab countries. Later Christians took back Spain after centuries and expell all the Jew and Muslim. Jews fled to Muslim countries like Turkish Empire. They had peace thanks to Muslims ! Most of time Muslims and the Jewish had good relations during 1200 years untill Israel issue started. Then all mess started! Now they are enemies and bcoz of this the world lives in extra danger with terror acts.Please read history so you know more about it.

 

If you do not like India-Muslim history, good, but stop making comments like Jews have reason to dislike Muslims. Without Muslims many less Jews would have lived.Only Israel issue had make it very bad.

[Guest guest]

I know what you're saying but I was referring to when the Arab Caliphate came to the area. Mohammed going to Palestine to spread Islam and having his night journey there made it an important place for Muslims. But the Jews do say that there was an ancient Kingdom of Israel there at around 1050BC and that they believe it was their land, even though they lost power. What I said about Islam claiming the Jewish prophets were really muslim remains true and I know that this can be seen as offensive to Jews, but it still is a claim that remains.

 

{Jews(original homeland area Iraq)}

 

I thought the came from Egypt. Wasn't the ancient Iraqi's Mesopotamians?

 

{When jew came , war happened, and they were all slaughtered by jews ( you can also read in oldtestament ). Everyone, woman, child,ordered to killed by their god.}

 

Well, I admit I didn't know about this. The Jews always show that they were traditionally non-violent people, so I didn't think they would kill man, woman and child and steal their land. Just out of curiosity, what religion were the Canaanites? Were they idol-worshippers?

 

{Most of time Muslims and the Jewish had good relations during 1200 years untill Israel issue started.}

 

I think it was much before that in early 11th century when Al-Hakim the 6th Fatimid Caliph, ordered the muslims to destroy jewish temples and christian churches. The crusades then happened. But even since Mohammed exected an entire Jewish tribe in Medina for what he says broke a treaty and also things like the jewish sabbath breakers turning into monkeys as said in the koran, etc, this I believe didn't go down well with the jews and the jews never really trusted the muslims. But still it's probably true that the Jews were treated better as dhimmi's under muslim rule than under christian rule.

 

 

[Guest guest]

---I know what you're saying but I was referring to when the Arab Caliphate came to the area. Mohammed going to Palestine to spread Islam and having his night journey there made it an important place for Muslims. But the Jews do say that there was an ancient Kingdom of Israel there at around 1050BC and that they believe it was their land, even though they lost power. What I said about Islam claiming the Jewish prophets were really muslim remains true and I know that this can be seen as offensive to Jews, but it still is a claim that remains.

 

When Muslims went to Palestina/Israel it was in hand of Christians (Byzantine ) and that Jewish kingdom was long ago. Muslim arrival was liberation for remaining jews. Like Jews say.

 

About saying Moses etc. called Muslim.He is not claimed as Arab or denied he was a jewish prophet. More called a muslim like some people are saying Jesus was a devotee or sanatan dharmi. So not muslim if he was arab or follower of mohammed but more in meaning like "true believer ". You get the picture I think.

 

--I thought the came from Egypt. Wasn't the ancient Iraqi's Mesopotamians? ---

 

Mesopotamians are the ancient people between the 2 rivers. Can mean Sumarians, Akkadian, assyrians, Babylonians and s Abraham of UR, father of jews ( israelites ) and also Ismaelites ( Arabs )is also called Mesopotamian. But they all speak different languages. But Hebrew and Arab are both semitic language,close like Hindi and Bangla.

According to tradition/history ( dates /events here given are roughly ) Jews lived 2000 BC around Ur/Iraq.They spread in area on way to take Palestine. Later enslaved in Egypt. Moses led them towards Canaan( palestina ).Died in desert. Later on they entered Canaan ( palestina ) and killed everything and took their land.

 

--Well, I admit I didn't know about this. The Jews always show that they were traditionally non-violent people, so I didn't think they would kill man, woman and child and steal their land. Just out of curiosity, what religion were the Canaanites? Were they idol-worshippers?---

 

Yes. Check this site to see. Here they are more "open" about how to treat idolaters /pagan images according to Judaism.

www.njop.org/html/PARASHATEKEV57612001.htm

 

But many jews are not open and mostly try to conceal what Judaism teaches about idolaters and so on.

 

--- I think it was much before that in early 11th century when Al-Hakim the 6th Fatimid Caliph, ordered the muslims to destroy jewish temples and christian churches. The crusades then happened. But even since Mohammed exected an entire Jewish tribe in Medina for what he says broke a treaty and also things like the jewish sabbath breakers turning into monkeys as said in the koran, etc, this I believe didn't go down well with the jews and the jews never really trusted the muslims. But still it's probably true that the Jews were treated better as dhimmi's under muslim rule than under christian rule.---

 

 

Offcourse churches, mosques and synogoge are destroyed sometimes. These thing happen always in wartimes but fact is Jews had most of the time good relation with the muslims . When Jews got the chance they did the same with christians. In early beginning Islam they decieved the Christians when they wanted to attack the arabs in Arabia and slaughtered 20.000 to help the muslims.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

just to add. Not all jews follow or support those violent orthodox jewish teachings offcourse but it is in the old testament to read.

[Guest guest]

Stupid are the excuses of religious difference, if there is no proper shelter for the palestinian women, families and chidren to grow. Great news of the jewish withdrawal for the palestinian families.

 

Hopefully the muslim families who lived there, get back their houses and forget their bad fortnes.

 

No religious difference of jews and islam is worth any listening untill all the palestinian families who had become homeless due to the jewish occupation, get proper homes to live and are rehabilitated for their personal & emotional losses.

 

Hopefully these palestinain families will demonstrate to the world, how to behave like a good neighbour. Jews talked all about their religion since occupation and forgot how to behave as a good neighbour. Well, it's never too late to demonstrate a good behaviour as a neighbour. Jews did it. Expecting no return for the withdrawal is the victory to good human values common among the jews and the palestinians.

[Guest guest]

---Stupid are the excuses of religious difference, if there is no proper shelter for the palestinian women, families and chidren to grow. Great news of the jewish withdrawal for the palestinian families---

 

A "hawk " made important step. Who was thinking that?

 

--No religious difference of jews and islam is worth any listening untill all the palestinian families who had become homeless due to the jewish occupation, get proper homes to live and are rehabilitated for their personal & emotional losses.---

 

Own state is supported but ALL Palestinians going back to houses in what is now Israel? Maybe too much to ask. Clock turning back 50/40 years ago is difficult and in history this is often not done. all people make concessions . Offcourse compensation and new homes building in new state is a very good idea.

[Guest guest]

--"A "hawk " made important step. Who was thinking that?" -

 

Above was meant as .."a hawk made important step. Who could ever thought of that ?"

 

Just in case.

[maadhav 0]

dear guest 2,

 

krishna in gita chapter-4 says (in my words) that he told this gita in the beginning to manu, who told it to iskvAhu, and so forth. due to passage of time it got almost lost, and i (krsishna) am telling it again to you.

 

so, gita is with us since the creation, and vyasadev just put it in writing. previously it was kept in brains.

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Imagine if they said "Krishna was a muslim prophet and he spoke about Islam, it's just that you wicked Hindus twisted his teachings into Hinduism".

 

No need to imagine it ... they already doing it now.

 

I'm sure you heard of Prophecies of Kalki which Muslims now trying to mimic Muhammad into Kalki's shoes, stating Hindus are waiting in vain because Kalki already came and went, giving Mankind Islam to follow.

 

Also, I have discussed with Muslims who actually think Sri Rama and Sri Krishna was Muslim Prophets, which Hindus (like Christians did with Jesus-lookalike), made into Gods.

 

Also, some thinks Manu actually Prophet Noh and therefore, Manu Smirti is accordance to Islam as well (which by the way, there is no Manu Smirti in Islam).

 

Before Jews(original homeland area Iraq) came to Palestina( ancient name before name Israel ) led by Moses and followers, Palestina was inhabited by non-Jew semitic tribe like Kanaan. When jew came , war happened, and they were all slaughtered by jews ( you can also read in oldtestament ). Everyone, woman, child,ordered to killed by their god. Then it became Jeish land called Judea.

 

One correction ... there is no slaughter of such magnitude existed in Mid-East for the past 3,100 years since Moses lead Jews to that area. And God NEVER ordered anyone to fight in behalf of Him, that part is extra, created by Christians to support that people before Jesus were indeed still sinful in eyes of God.

 

Jews fled to Muslim countries like Turkish Empire. They had peace thanks to Muslims ! Most of time Muslims and the Jewish had good relations during 1200 years untill Israel issue started.

 

Yeah, true ... even during the time of Crusaders, Jews didn't support either sides and trades with both peacefully, which includes weapons of war, by the way.

 

Muslims AND Christians didn't drag Jews into their quarrels and Jews did their best not to interfere with Muslim and Christian affairs. This new "fiasco" where Jews are ochestrating Muslim downfalls is something new which occures after World War 2 because many Jews had went nations of Muslim's arch-enemy, the Christians - US and Europe.