Are Jews Descendants of Yadus...

[bhaktashab 0]

I was wondering if anyone had any information on this theory. Also would those who know please relay some of the history of the Hebrew people.

 

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shab.

[bhaktashab 0]

Jews claim that they are God's chosen people. I wonder what is their basis for this claim and whether it has any place in fact. Surely the Yadus were God's chosen people, Krishna Himself appeared in their family.

[mahak 0]

I dont use the word Jew, however, there is good evidence that the origin of the Israelite is the cave dwellers who were remnants of the Yadu Dynasty. It must be realized that at the end of Dwarapa Yuga, the Yadus were compelled to engage in self-genocide to effect the partial annihilation of the age. All of the Yadus went with Krsna to engage in His pastimes as His direct associates.

 

Those who may have avoided the seeming holocaust perhaps did so in the shelter of caves. There is more and more scientific evidence that a major annihilation did occur 5000 years ago, and that the earth was relatively uninhabitable. From all cultures we have evidence of enlightened civilizations coming to ruin, with the survivors spending much of the aftermath scribbling their memoriesw on the walls of their underground shelters.

 

The Israelites spring from Abraham, who may have been one, not unlike Plato, who wanted to revive the glorious teachings he held in his heart from eras long ago destroyed, and their may be evidence that His homeland, Ur, is a site of previous vedic age reknown. So, perhaps the speculation that "jews" are descendants of yadus may be partially true. But "jews" are not one family, and most authentic Israelites (and christians, for that matter), migrated south into the Afar region of Abyssinia.

 

Even the bible has no continuity. The end of the old testament is 500 years previous to the birth of Christ, and 500 years is too much of a gap for this writer to make any connection at all. Connection is only made outside the confines of canonized scripture.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Gauracandra 1]

Regarding the Jews being the chosen people of God, I have a little input. I have an orthodox Jewish friend at work who explained the meaning to them. Basically the laws and rules God has laid down are for the Jews. They are to obey all of these rules but no one else is obliged to follow in that same path. If other people (non-jewish) are good people (not sure how that is defined) then they too will return to God. But the Jewish traditions are to be followed by Jews if they are to return to God.

 

Just a side note, but isn't the "star of David" sign a Sri Yantra design? meant to bring auspiciousness? I'm not saying the two are necessarily connected I'd be curious about the development of this symbol for the Jews.

[bhaktashab 0]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

 

Just a side note, but isn't the "star of David" sign a Sri Yantra design? meant to bring auspiciousness? I'm not saying the two are necessarily connected I'd be curious about the development of this symbol for the Jews.

In his book "Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence" Stephen Knapp comments on the Star of David as follows:

"Another example of outside influence is the Jewish emblem known as the Star of David. This consists of two interlocking triangles, one pointing up, the other down, which is a Tantric Vedic symbol. It is called Rangawali, or Rangoli. It is also a simplified form of the Sri Yantra, which is connected with the Goddess Sri, or Sri Lakshmi Devi, the goddess of fortune and the wife of Lord Vishnu. Even its name 'David' is the sanskrit word Devi-d, meaning "bestowed by the Mother Goddess." This emblem is also drawn in front of many orthodox Hindu homes in rice powder or chalk every morning after the house is washed, and especially on holidays."

[Gauracandra 1]

Thanks for the reply Bhaktashab. By the way I really like your website.

 

I have asked in the past some people about the star of David though I don't think I have ever asked a Jewish person about its origins. I have never received a good explanation of its history. For instance is there a story in the Torah about David and a star? I don't know. But there must be some sort of basis to its development as a symbol.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

If my memory of the star of David is right, it is a sudarshana yantra (two interlocking triangles).

 

[Dharma 0]

I guess the first question as to the statement "God's chosen people" would be: "Which God?".

 

If I remember college history & theology correctly King Solomon was the son of David. The Star of David is still used talismanically. Some say the triangle pointing up symbolizes Man reaching to God and the downward triangle as God touching man. Some say it is the symbol of Divine Union.In it is the symbolism "As is above so is below & that which is unleashed in Heaven is also unleased on Earth." One step further it can also be likened to out of the acorn comes a forest. It reminds me a bit of the chant "Poornamidah" I suppose.

 

This symbol is found in the center of the symbol for the Anahata Chakra-the spiritual heart. At the center of it is a small lamp flame-a spark of divinity or the soul. Paramathma perhaps.

 

The Jews were once nomadic and I think David was the first king followed by his son Solomon. The tribal rule changed to a kingdom if I remember the legend correctly because the Phillistines stole the Ark of the Israelite's God of War. A temple or throne would have offered more protection than the nomadic tribal warlords, rulers and tents could offer. Losing the Ark would have been a very serious matter.

 

In the tradition of magic, Seals of Solomon (the son of David) are used by some traditions. You can see them at some Santaria stores or new age stores. Basically these are Angelic Seals of fallen Angels. One will give knowledge of chemistry, another of foreign languages, some protection, others love and so on. The legend is that Solomon was so beloved to God that God wanted to give him something. Solomon asked for the wisdom of the world. God gave him control over the fallen angels.

 

This is interesting to me as it it not the first time in this tradition Knowledge and Wisdom are associated with fallen angels. I am refering to the story of Adam & Eve-when Eve ate of the tree of Knowledge-tempted by Satan or Lucifer (another fallen angel whose name means "Bearer of Light"). The fall of man is attributed to this action in Judeo Christian tradition.

 

The temple of Solomon has to do with Masonic tradition as well as sacred geometry.

 

[This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 11-25-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 11-25-2001).]

[Tarun 6]

guru-zAstra-sAdhu: I mentioned this elsewhere.

First time I met PrabhupAd he mentioned:

"You're all coming from Xatriya stock.

After Kuruxetra war, some soldiers escaped to European side ..."

Including YayAti lines (Greece & Turkey), there's at least 3 Vedik European derivations.

If we include Jew/Yadu, that makes 4.

Diksa is much more important than seminal birth. No comparison.

Jesus was crucified because he preached "You Must Be Born Again".

Born Again? Diksa, of course.

Jesus gave his Apostles many mantras to chant.

We don't know those mantras because their paramparA was lost.

Or these Popes & Cardinals are not telling us.

Jews that follow Lord Caitanya... they are the REAL Yadu-Jews.

As for the rest?

We can politely express: Misguided

We can go so far as to say: Masquerade

[Gauracandra 1]

If my memory of the star of David is right, it is a sudarshana yantra (two interlocking triangles).

This is very interesting. The "star of David" would then represent the Sudarshana Chakra... and the Swastika also represents the Sudarshana Chakra (though not the one Hitler used). Very interesting.

 

[bhaktashab 0]

That's an interesting quote Tarun, thankyou.

 

If I imagine an image of Dwaraka, the city of the Yadus', I see a place of not just one family. We have to remember that this was a varnasrama culture and therefore all the classes of peoples, from Sudra to Brahmin, were residents of that city. So I think it is safe to say that the Yadus were a race of humans. But of course, being a race this means they had common ancestry. Krishna had a huge family, as we know, and all of Krishna's relatives were Kshatriyas. Krishna's son Samba was directly involved in the event which lead to the Yadu dynasty being cursed. After this it is said that the Yadus were destroyed in a fratricidal war. In fact Krishna and Balarama fought and killed them all. But did Krishna and Balarama fight Brahmins, Vaisyas and Sudras? One would assume that they only killed Kshatriyas. This would correspond to one of the reasons for Krishna's appearance - He came to rid the Earth of Kshatriyas, thus preparing the planet for Kali Yuga. Most of this job was done at Kurukshetra, but the Yadus weren't annihilated until after the great war. Then we understand that the city of Dwaraka was flooded and thus many more would have been killed. Whatever Yadus remained would have been without a place of residence and thus a nomadic life would have ensued. The other factor contributing toward a nomadic lifestyle would have been the fact that there were no Kshatriyas among them, in other words no one to rule them properly and set up a new place of residence, a new city. The survivors of this holocaust were practically left with nothing.

It is said in the Bhagavatam that in times of great difficulty all the varnas, except for Kshatriyas, may perform the work of the other varnas in order to preserve social stability. This means that Kshatriyas are essential for a peaceful society. It is their duty to protect and properly engage all the citizens and they provide charity as the means of livelihood for the Brahmanas. The loss of the worlds Kshatriyas ended the advanced civilisation of Dvarapa Yuga and without the Kshatriyas brahminical culture died. From this analysis it is clear that the remnants of the Yadus had a great deal in common with the earliest descriptions of the Jews, “c2000-1700 BCE: Patriarchs and Matriarchs in Canaan. Nomadic "Habiru" wander the region, Famine forces Israelites to migrate to Egypt.” There is simply a 1000-year gap between the beginning of Kali Yuga in 3102 BC, and the time of the above historical description of the early Jews. I would say one thousand years is enough for a nomadic people, degraded by the onset of Kali Yuga, to forget their links with their Vaishnava ancestors.

 

p.s. Gauracandra, I’m glad you like the website on my profile, I think it’s great. It’s not mine though my friend Edward designed it.

 

Hare Krsna

 

[Tarun 6]

So far 'descendants' are concerned:

If u visit Holland, you'll meet descendants, remnants of...? Vikings?

Very tall. Supposedly the tallest ethnik group worldwide.

They now how to take back land from Atlantik Ocean. Very skillful.

One guy at Schiphol airport was so wide & so tall...

When we got on their airport shuttle bus, he had to duck his head during entire ride.

That bus ceiling was at least 7'6".

They've never shown so much interest in Basketball.

They prefer Futbol.

They beat Brazil for Soccer World Cup about 5 yrs ago.

If they did practice Hoops...

they'd slam dunk our entire Olympik Dream Team players, ball & all!

And think nothing of it.

Italians like to work wih their hands.

According to Jackie Mason, a rabbi's son, Jews were not allowed to work with their hands due to discrimination.

They just didn't fit in.

Ergo, they worked with their heads. Go betweens.

Like everyone else, they're blessed, they're cursed.

Kaliyuga takes no prisoners.

janma mRtyu jarA vyAdhi duHkha doSanu darzanam...

[Gauracandra 1]

I’m glad you like the website on my profile, I think it’s great. It’s not mine though my friend Edward designed it.

Well just let Edward know he's got some appreciators Looks real nice. Thumbs up.

[karthik_v 0]

Originally posted by Tarun:

Jesus was crucified because he preached "You Must Be Born Again".

Born Again? Diksa, of course.

Jesus gave his Apostles many mantras to chant. We don't know those mantras because their paramparA was lost.

Hare Krishna Tarun Prabhu,

 

That is an interesting point you have made. Could you please elaborate on Jesus preaching "You Must Be Born Again"?

 

Also, what is the source of your information that Jesus gave mantras to his disciples?

 

YHS,

Karthik

 

[shvu 1]

I was wondering if anyone had any information on this theory. Also would those who know please relay some of the history of the Hebrew people.

 

There is absolutely no evidence to link Hebrews with Indians. Their history starts about the same time Indian history starts.

 

As for their claim of calling themselves as God's chosen people, so did all the other civilizations of that time. Even now, certain religious groups/organizations like to think, they are somehow better than other religions. That is the basic nature of humans; to from a group and think they are better than the rest.

 

Cheers

 

 

[This message has been edited by shvu (edited 12-01-2001).]

[bhaktashab 0]

Originally posted by shvu:

There is absolutely no evidence to link Hebrews with Indians. Their history starts about the same time Indian history starts.

Indian history as given in the Puranas goes back millions of years.

 

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shab.

[shvu 1]

 

Indian history as given in the Puranas goes back millions of years.

The Puranas are not history books and are not to be treated as sources of historical information. Their purpose and scope are something else.

 

Cheers

 

[bhaktashab 0]

Originally posted by shvu:

The Puranas are not history books and are not to be treated as sources of historical information. Their purpose and scope are something else.

 

 

This word Purana means history. Those who follow Vedic culture accept them as history. You may not, but who are you to deny the authority of the Puranas?

The purpose and scope of the Puranas is vast, but the knowledge is revealed through historical incidents.

 

 

 

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shab.

[suryaz 0]

Originally posted by bhaktashab:

This word Purana means history. Those who follow Vedic culture accept them as history. You may not, but who are you to deny the authority of the Puranas?

The purpose and scope of the Puranas is vast, but the knowledge is revealed through historical incidents.

 

 

 

 

Where did you get these ideas from?

 

[Gauracandra 1]

There is absolutely no evidence to link Hebrews with Indians.

There are those on the Jewish side (and Christian) who have sought to find a connection. I don't have all the facts at my finger tips, but perhaps I'll search for it. Basically in the Jewish tradition there is the story of the 12 lost tribes of Israel. Apparently they broke off and became scattered throughout the world. I was watching a program a while back, and there is a Jewish community in India who consider themselves one of these lost tribes. Their traditions are VERY similar to orthodox Jews with some variations. I'm a bit fuzzy on all the details, but I'll look around and see if I can find anything else.

 

Gauracandra

[shvu 1]

 

There is also the tower of Babel story from the bible according to which God scattered people all over the earth, after which they began to speak in multiple languages. According to this story, all the civilizations spun off from hebrews. Or at least, that is the standard interpretation.

 

But again, this is not history.

 

Cheers

 

[shvu 1]

 

This word Purana means history. Those who follow Vedic culture accept them as history. You may not, but who are you to deny the authority of the Puranas?

The purpose and scope of the Puranas is vast, but the knowledge is revealed through historical incidents.

Evidently,

 

1. You do not know sanskrit.

2. Have not read the Puranas.

3. Are not familiar with Indian history.

 

But not knowing is not a problem. Purana does not mean history; it means old/ancient. Typically, the Purana literature is a collection of very old stories that were compiled during the first millenium AD. While the stories themselves may be pretty old, in true Indian style they are fact mixed with fable. It is only when one takes the time to read at least 2-3 Puranas together, that one realizes how meaningless, it is to extract historical info out of them.

 

Coming to the scope and purpose of the Puranas, their objective is to provide Info on religion, devotion, philosophy, traditions, etc in a simple and lucid manner, so that they can be understood by the common man. This was necessary because the vedas were restricted to Brahmanas only and are quite complex in nature.

 

The authors used the technique of story telling and embedded these concepts in stories and thus the stories were chosen accordingly. x instructs y, in which appears x1 who instructs y1 and so on. If you have read the Bhagavatam fully, it should be obvious to you, the purpose is to illustrate spiritual concepts and not to present history.

 

Cheers

 

 

[This message has been edited by shvu (edited 12-02-2001).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

I don't have much time to get into the whole debate as to what is a Purana, and what is its connection with history. That discussion occurred sometime back if my memory serves me right. I think it is kind of humorous to argue on the grounds that Purana does not refer to history, what has occurred in the anceint times, etc. Those who follow the Vedas and accept them as truth take the Puranas, Itihasas and Kavyas to be narrations of factual events in the history of the universe.

 

Here is a summary of these three categories of texts from a booklet published by the Bhaktivedanta Ashram:

 

Puranas, Itihasas and Kavyas

 

Puranas are compiled from related historical facts which explain the teachings of the four Vedas. In the Chandogya Upanishad, the Puranas and the Mahabharata, generally known as histories, are mentioned as the fifth Veda.

 

Srila Vyasadeva, due to his kindness and sympathy toward the fallen souls, supplemented the Vedas with Puranas which easily explain the Vedic truths, intended for different types of men.

 

All men are not equal. There are men who are conducted by the mode of goodness, others who are under the mode of passion and others who are under the mode of ignorance. The Puranas are so divided that any class of men can take advantage of them and gradu ally regain their original position and get out of the hard struggle for existence.

 

All the stories mentioned in the Puranas are actual histories, not only of this planet but also on millions of other planets within the universe.

 

In the Puranas, (which are classified under the three modes) as a matter of course, Srila Vyasadeva has certainly given descriptions of the glories of Krishna, but not as many as given to religiosity economic development, sense gratification and salvation . These four items are by far very inferior to engagement in the devotional service of the Lord.

 

Therefore, in the pure-goodness Purana, viz., Srimad Bhagavatam, Srila Vyasadeva proclaims that the prime necessity of human life is to realize one's eternal relationship with the Lord and thus surrender unto Him without delay.

 

Itihasas are literatures describing historical events pertaining to either a single hero or a few heroic personalities in a lineage: for example, Ramayana describing the pastimes of Sri Ramachandra and Mahabharata describing the pastimes of the Pandavas in the lineage of the Kurus. In these books there are topics on transcendental subjects along with material topics. The Bhagavad-gita is a part of Mahabharata. The whole idea of the Mahabharata culminates in the ultimate instructions of the Bhagavad-gita that one should give up all other engagements and should engage oneself solely and fully in surrendering unto the lotus feet of Krishna. The conclusive teaching of the Ramayana also is to fully surrender and take shelter of Lord Sri Ramachandra.

 

Kavyas are dramatic poetical presentations of selected histories from the Itihasas and/or Puranas, some examples are Raghuvamsa, Meghaduta, Sakuntala.

 

All the vedic literatures, are put into systematic order for the benefit of the fallen souls who are detached from the transcendental loving service of the Lord, It is the duty of the fallen souls to take advantage of such literatures and become freed from the bondage of material existence.

 

 

[Sephiroth 0]

I have an orthodox Jewish friend at work who explained the meaning to them. Basically the laws and rules God has laid down are for the Jews. They are to obey all of these rules but no one else is obliged to follow in that same path.

 

Yeah, Jewish Laws (as set by Moses) is meant for Jews. After God (through Moses) brought out the Hebrew out of Egypt, He gave them Laws to follow so they couldn't go astray again. Those Laws for for Jews alone.

[Sephiroth 0]

But again, this is not history.

 

It is history.

 

200,000 years ago, Man moved out of Africa and settle in what is known as Mesotampia Region (today's Iran and Iraq), from there, another group split from this main from and ventured to India (about 180,000 years ago) and started Indian civilization which worshipped Lord Shiva. From India, they moved to Malaya, across the sea to Australia (by 80,000 years ago), China and across the Bering Sea to America.

 

While Santana Dharma known as Mother of ALL religions (because Indian made it so advance, it peaked ALL others while Jewish Tradition kept within the group and that made the progress slow, not to mention that Jews have to compete with Christians and later Muslims who hated their guts), Jewish People are source of where Civilizations comes from.

 

This is part of World History as it accepted in Mitochondria Eve theory AND Out of Africe theory which explains Human migration across the globe.

 

However, the word Hebrew didn't come to till Moses brought Hebrews out of Egypt and I have no idea where the word Jew comes from either.