Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 dunno..it's been a decade since was over there... not rubbin it in yer face dear peter VV.... i'm sure there are things you do easily that i can't.... speak welsh fer one teehee peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 11:14 AM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Still you rub my face in it, so much choice! its a wonder you cook at all, and I bet its cheaper than over here? The Valley Vegan..........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: found some places in Bath..but that was way back when and we only ate out like twice while we were there.... here..shhhesssh...eaten out like 5 days out of the week last night was sushi at koryo sushi(4 blks from my haus) monday we had vegan japanese at cha ya in berkeley(damn good mushroom miso) saturday was herbivore in SF friday was pizza at lanesplitter... and yet..we still cook everyday...go figure... fraggle peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 10:56 AM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Well I guess you can be more choosy than us over here, you would probably never eat out much over here! The Valley Vegan............. It doesn't matter anywayNever understand our kindTry to disrespect what's mineYour words don't mean a thing to meYour living in a fantasyNow we have no more to sayWe'll get about it our wayfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i know a lot of vegans who won't eat at any place that uses the same pots and such for meat as well as veggies...everyone draws the line at different places...and, to me there is a major difference between stepping behind a carnivore, and eating off the same pan that has been used countless times to baste some dead critter....heartwerk Nov 30, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Dining out-rantI think it is possible to be too sensitive. I can't see any problem with eating food prepared in any utensil as long as it has been thoroughly washed. If you take that sort of thought further you might not want to go out of your house because people who eat meat have walked on the ground that you would walk on, and it would be somewhat of a joyless life.I agree with asking questions about how the food is prepared if you go to an omnivorous restaurant, and avoiding places that don't use cleaned utensils etc.JoDon't need no politicianTell me things I ought to be Neither no opticianTell me what I ought to seeNo one tells you nothingEven when you know they knowThey tell you what you should beThey don't like to see you grow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 true dat just living off someone else's excess.... peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 12:02 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant I agree there is way too much waste not just in restuarants but in supermarkets also, and whilst I appreciate the idea of Freegans, I fear that most of their diet is payed for. The Valley Vegan..........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: eh vegan fast food bugs me there's a certain mind set to *fast* food..a certain level of "its ok to waste alot" attitude... sandi gordon Nov 30, 2005 10:16 AM Re: Re: Dining out-rant I think restaurants assume everyone is a meat and dairy eater,they don't have enough options for us vegans. I do wish there were vegan fast food joints it would be great to go through a drive through to pick up a vegan hamburger/chicken/etc.Don't need no politician Tell me things I ought to be Neither no optician Tell me what I ought to see No one tells you nothing Even when you know they know They tell you what you should be They don't like to see you grow Peter H How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Photos. Get Photos To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 I agree, but being the worlds greatest sceptic, there are probably more that do not? The Valley Vegan................jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Apparently they visit the restaurant three times to check on the facilities and the way the food is prepared, and that everyone who cooks/handles food on that premises has been trained properly. I expect there are times when it doesn't work, but lots of omniverous cafes do really try to do what they should. Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:00 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Sorry for being sceptical, but does the vegetarian society ever check, or do they dish out their symbol to any old burger seller? The Valley Vegan............... Peter H To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Security Centre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 That's my point. We will not cook anything other than what we eat for other people - and maybe shouldn't expect them to cook anything out of their usual for us. Jo - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:08 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant > the baby cow will... > > and, i'll definately be sick if i eat cheese.... > > > would ya be sick if ya ate a soup made of boiled babies??? > prolly not until ya knew... > > everyone is different...like i always say > everyone takes veganism and diet to different levels > > i couldnever serve someone a non-vegan meal..that would be horrendous... > just like i couldn't help someone capture their escaped slave, just like i wouldn't sit back and watch as my guest beat the crap out of their kid, just like i couldn't watch my guest yell racial epithets out my window.... > etc and so forth > > > serene <lists > Nov 30, 2005 10:14 AM > > Re: Re: Dining out-rant > > > On Wed, November 30, 2005 10:11 am, fraggle said: > > ah..but are they really cooking special foods? > > why are they special? > > can *they*(whomever they are) eat them? > > will they curl up and die if they eat string beans? > > Will you curl up and die if you eat cheese? > > I cook vegan nearly all the time. If someone requests something else, I > provide it. it's part of being a good host. > > serene > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 There's Demuths in Bath. It is veggie with some vegan options. Very nice, but rather expensive. There is a pub called something like Porters that is a veggie pub. We had vegan burger, chips and salad there. It was nice but lots of loud music - not my kind either. Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:14 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Still you rub my face in it, so much choice! its a wonder you cook at all, and I bet its cheaper than over here? The Valley Vegan..........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: found some places in Bath..but that was way back when and we only ate out like twice while we were there.... here..shhhesssh...eaten out like 5 days out of the week last night was sushi at koryo sushi(4 blks from my haus) monday we had vegan japanese at cha ya in berkeley(damn good mushroom miso) saturday was herbivore in SF friday was pizza at lanesplitter... and yet..we still cook everyday...go figure... fraggle peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 10:56 AM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Well I guess you can be more choosy than us over here, you would probably never eat out much over here! The Valley Vegan............. It doesn't matter anywayNever understand our kindTry to disrespect what's mineYour words don't mean a thing to meYour living in a fantasyNow we have no more to sayWe'll get about it our wayfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i know a lot of vegans who won't eat at any place that uses the same pots and such for meat as well as veggies...everyone draws the line at different places...and, to me there is a major difference between stepping behind a carnivore, and eating off the same pan that has been used countless times to baste some dead critter....heartwerk Nov 30, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Dining out-rantI think it is possible to be too sensitive. I can't see any problem with eating food prepared in any utensil as long as it has been thoroughly washed. If you take that sort of thought further you might not want to go out of your house because people who eat meat have walked on the ground that you would walk on, and it would be somewhat of a joyless life.I agree with asking questions about how the food is prepared if you go to an omnivorous restaurant, and avoiding places that don't use cleaned utensils etc.JoDon't need no politicianTell me things I ought to be Neither no opticianTell me what I ought to seeNo one tells you nothingEven when you know they knowThey tell you what you should beThey don't like to see you grow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 nuff said, each to his own conscience. listening to Hatebreed, Madball, and Agnostic Front today.............need to chill a bit, maybe I`ll dig out some Arcade Fire for tomorrow.................maybe thats a bit too depressing............................rambling again..........................am I thinking this ?....................O.K. whos listening to my thoughts and typing them down?.......................right I am just going t sit here and not think until this stops.................................................................. The Valley Vegan.........................droolfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: like i said..everyone is different... every takes things differently one of the reasons my last major relationship soured was because my then partner stopped being vegan... she might as well have said "hey, i think i'm gonna be racist now" it amounts to the same thing in my book... ruby is vegan,,...i give her the ebst diet i can lickey is not why? cuz he's headin fer 17 yrs of age, and is a finisky little bugger..try feeding him vegan cat fud, and he just turned up his nose and walked away after many aborted attempts, and him losing a lot of weight, i gave up do i feel bad..yup.... not much else i can do about it tho... but..i can do something about someone else eatin something dead in my haus..and i can do something about me serving something dead... I personally think we are all special, and I think you are over reacting. Perhaps you think that I should boot out my wife for eating dead things, and maybe my kids too for being mere vegetarians, while I am at it why dont I flagelate myself for feeding my cats dead animals in a tin? Integration, not segregation please. We may have different beliefs and lifestyles, but we all need to get along. No-one is asking for you to compromise your beliefs and eat an animal limb now and again, just let the ones that do ( if they must)For all you know , there could be Fruitarians out there tut tuting at you right now! and wishing to exclude you from their air space! Sits down and waits for the next barrage! The Valley Vegan....................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: sorry joi disagree with every fiber of my being.....my diet isn't *special*...i don't eat anything that comes from an animali don't want anything that comes from another animalthats torture...thats cruel...eh..you know wot i mean...*accomodating* someone how ate meat in my place would be akin to allowing a murderer to go right ahead and kill someone in my place..i mean.. its wot he does..i have to be accomodating...jo Nov 30, 2005 10:31 AM Subject: Re: Re: Dining out-rant> ah..but are they really cooking special foods?If it is something they would not normally cook for themselves or for theirother friends at a party/bbq - then yes it would be special food, just as avegan cooking meat would be cooking something special for someone else.> why are they special?Maybe special is not a word that has made my meaning clear. Maybe I shouldhave said different to their normal food.> can *they*(whomever they are) eat them?They can eat them, but might not like them or choose to eat them, just as avegan could eat meat but chooses not to.> will they curl up and die if they eat string beans?That's not a good example because if a vegan eat a lump of meat they wouldnot curl up and die either.If we expect other people to make a special effort for us to accommodate our(what seems to them) strange ways then shouldn't we be expected to make aspecial effort to accommodate (what seems to us) their strange ways. Howcan we think we are right to expect the rules to suit us from both angles?Or might it be better to eat the salad, and take along some nuts forprotein. Presumably you will have gone along to the gathering because youlike the people, not just to get a free meal.If you can't get my point I am obviously not making it very well. I am notsaying that meat-eaters are right to eat meat, merely pointing out thatmaybe we expect more than we are prepared to give.Jo>>>> if i knew someone who beat puppies, am i just suppose to play by theirrules when i see em?>> > jo > Nov 30, 2005 9:58 AM> > Re: Re: Dining out-rant>> I reckon it's a good idea to always take a bag of mixed nuts with you when> eating out - then if there is no protein in the dish you are given you can> eat the nuts and tell them that vegans need protein too and the mealdoesn't> have any!>> This is not a suggestion or an adverse comment either - it is just an> anomaly that I haven't reconciled in my mind yet. We say 'when peoplevisit> us they eat what we cook (i.e. no animal ingredients) and yet we complain> when they won't cook food different to their normal food for us. Surelyif> we expect them to cook special food for our tastes, we should cook foodfor> them for their tastes. As I said, I am not suggesting that we all cook> meat, cheese etc for our guests, but bearing this in mind, can we reallyask> them to cook special food for us?>> Jo> -> "herbvalerian" > > Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:24 PM> Re: Dining out-rant>>> > Hi,> > This can be a difficult one.> > I rarely go out to restaurants because there are no exclusivelyvegetarian> restaurants> > round here, tho we have a couple of vegetarian cafes and a pub which is> supposed to be> > vegetarian.> > Fortunately my other half is trying to be vegan and is totallyvegetarian> so we don't have> > conflict about where we go.> > When we do go out we usually go to to British Indian restaurants as they> seem to> > understand about the ethics of vegetarians and will check theingredients.> They always> > have a vegtarian section on the menus. Our local indian restaurant hasa> vegetarian chef.> > He makes me a special dish I ask for (spinach and lentil curry) which is> not on the menu. If> > we are going somehere new we usually phone ahead to check they have> something and if> > they seem funny on the phone we don't go.> > I have not been to a meat based restaurant in many years, in fact Icannot> remember it> > must have been so long ago. In fact I am not sure I have ever been toone> as I have been a> > veggie for 24 years now, all my adult life. I too would be concernedabout> utensils if I went> > to a meat based restaurant, it is the main reason I would not go to one.> > It is a really good idea to phone ahead when eating out and check. If> there is nothing for> > you there be> > assertive with your family and find a better restaurant. "Let yourfingers> do the walking"> > through the phone book and make some calls! You have to convince the> family that you> > are going to decide where to eat because they can eat anywhere, youcan't!> Once you do> > this a few times you will be able to build up a list of places where you> know you can eat> > safely and the staff will remember you, particularly if you are polite.> Stay away from fast> > food places unless you know one where you can get what you want. I don't> know about the> > kitchens but the staff change too much to get to know you.> > If you are just eating salads and steamed veggies you are not going tobe> getting a> > balanced diet. Vegans need nuts, tofu, beans etc.> > We attended a freind's wedding reception a while ago. The only thingthey> gave me was a> > plain salad. I was disgusted, it as the worst meal I had had out in my> entire life, but of> > course I could not say any thing for risk of offending the bride and> groom.> > Mostly we eat at home with home cooked stuff. I often eat at my nextdoor> neighbour's> > house. She is an arabic muslim and she understands about dietary> restrictions. I make a> > curry or a stew or similar main course dish to take there and she makes> some rice and> > salad to go with it, and we have a great time stuffing our faces. She> often> > cooks stuff for me and brings it round in a pot. At first I think she> cooked it in the same> > pot as meat but she knows better now as I have trained her mind on this.> > I hope you don't mind me asking but don't you find it difficult living> with meat eaters?> > Most of my friends are either veggie or veggie friendly. I could notcook> meat for anyone,> > no way. If non vegans come round for a meal they get what we eat.> > Also, you say you are the only vegan you know of. This must be really> hard. If you could> > find some other Vegans it wuld give you moral support. Perhaps yo could> find out if there> > are any groups in your area and join. Sometimes you can find vegans in> related> > organisations. I know a few through a wholefood co-op I am in. Also Iknow> some> > vegetarians through friends who introduced me to them.> > If you tell the group the area you live in, they may be able to suggest> where to find other> > vegans.> > Let us know how you get on.> > Herb,> > Tyneside,> > UK> > , "Sandi" > wrote:> > >> > > I was wondering to all the vegans(I am one for over 11 yrs.)do you> > > find it tough to eat out at restuarants?my hubby and relatives are all> > > meat eaters and we go out to eat,I usually order-garden salad/steamed> > > veggies,fruit plate(stuff like that),but I have a constant worry about> > > the way the chefs prepare the foods w/ the pots/pans/utensils/ovens> > > maybe they are mixing things w/ the meat stuff or using the same items> > > to prepare the foods????I rather not eat out,I usually eat at home> > > then go out w/ them and not eat a thing or pack my own stuff.Where I> > > live I am like the only vegan I know of.Any advice to make it easier> > > to socialize-for thanksgiving my family got el pollo loco I just ate> > > the food I had at home,come on I can't trust them right....since being> > > a veagn not vegetarian I find a trust issue a big thing regarding> > > cooking items(I don't want my vegan stuff to be cooked in the same pot> > > as a meat product was cooked it a few hours ago)thank you all anyone> > > else feel like me> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 You are still missing my point Fraggle. Your diet isn't special to you but to the vast majority of the population your diet is 'special. If you can't see that, then there is nothing else I can say. Jo - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:16 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant > sorry jo > i disagree with every fiber of my being..... > > my diet isn't *special*... > i don't eat anything that comes from an animal > i don't want anything that comes from another animal > thats torture...thats cruel...eh..you know wot i mean... > > *accomodating* someone how ate meat in my place would be akin to allowing a murderer to go right ahead and kill someone in my place..i mean.. its wot he does..i have to be accomodating... > > > jo <jo.heartwork > Nov 30, 2005 10:31 AM > > Re: Re: Dining out-rant > > > > ah..but are they really cooking special foods? > If it is something they would not normally cook for themselves or for their > other friends at a party/bbq - then yes it would be special food, just as a > vegan cooking meat would be cooking something special for someone else. > > > why are they special? > Maybe special is not a word that has made my meaning clear. Maybe I should > have said different to their normal food. > > > can *they*(whomever they are) eat them? > They can eat them, but might not like them or choose to eat them, just as a > vegan could eat meat but chooses not to. > > > will they curl up and die if they eat string beans? > That's not a good example because if a vegan eat a lump of meat they would > not curl up and die either. > > If we expect other people to make a special effort for us to accommodate our > (what seems to them) strange ways then shouldn't we be expected to make a > special effort to accommodate (what seems to us) their strange ways. How > can we think we are right to expect the rules to suit us from both angles? > > Or might it be better to eat the salad, and take along some nuts for > protein. Presumably you will have gone along to the gathering because you > like the people, not just to get a free meal. > > If you can't get my point I am obviously not making it very well. I am not > saying that meat-eaters are right to eat meat, merely pointing out that > maybe we expect more than we are prepared to give. > > Jo > > > > > > > > if i knew someone who beat puppies, am i just suppose to play by their > rules when i see em? > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork > > Nov 30, 2005 9:58 AM > > > > Re: Re: Dining out-rant > > > > I reckon it's a good idea to always take a bag of mixed nuts with you when > > eating out - then if there is no protein in the dish you are given you can > > eat the nuts and tell them that vegans need protein too and the meal > doesn't > > have any! > > > > This is not a suggestion or an adverse comment either - it is just an > > anomaly that I haven't reconciled in my mind yet. We say 'when people > visit > > us they eat what we cook (i.e. no animal ingredients) and yet we complain > > when they won't cook food different to their normal food for us. Surely > if > > we expect them to cook special food for our tastes, we should cook food > for > > them for their tastes. As I said, I am not suggesting that we all cook > > meat, cheese etc for our guests, but bearing this in mind, can we really > ask > > them to cook special food for us? > > > > Jo > > - > > " herbvalerian " <herbvalerian > > > > Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:24 PM > > Re: Dining out-rant > > > > > > > Hi, > > > This can be a difficult one. > > > I rarely go out to restaurants because there are no exclusively > vegetarian > > restaurants > > > round here, tho we have a couple of vegetarian cafes and a pub which is > > supposed to be > > > vegetarian. > > > Fortunately my other half is trying to be vegan and is totally > vegetarian > > so we don't have > > > conflict about where we go. > > > When we do go out we usually go to to British Indian restaurants as they > > seem to > > > understand about the ethics of vegetarians and will check the > ingredients. > > They always > > > have a vegtarian section on the menus. Our local indian restaurant has > a > > vegetarian chef. > > > He makes me a special dish I ask for (spinach and lentil curry) which is > > not on the menu. If > > > we are going somehere new we usually phone ahead to check they have > > something and if > > > they seem funny on the phone we don't go. > > > I have not been to a meat based restaurant in many years, in fact I > cannot > > remember it > > > must have been so long ago. In fact I am not sure I have ever been to > one > > as I have been a > > > veggie for 24 years now, all my adult life. I too would be concerned > about > > utensils if I went > > > to a meat based restaurant, it is the main reason I would not go to one. > > > It is a really good idea to phone ahead when eating out and check. If > > there is nothing for > > > you there be > > > assertive with your family and find a better restaurant. " Let your > fingers > > do the walking " > > > through the phone book and make some calls! You have to convince the > > family that you > > > are going to decide where to eat because they can eat anywhere, you > can't! > > Once you do > > > this a few times you will be able to build up a list of places where you > > know you can eat > > > safely and the staff will remember you, particularly if you are polite. > > Stay away from fast > > > food places unless you know one where you can get what you want. I don't > > know about the > > > kitchens but the staff change too much to get to know you. > > > If you are just eating salads and steamed veggies you are not going to > be > > getting a > > > balanced diet. Vegans need nuts, tofu, beans etc. > > > We attended a freind's wedding reception a while ago. The only thing > they > > gave me was a > > > plain salad. I was disgusted, it as the worst meal I had had out in my > > entire life, but of > > > course I could not say any thing for risk of offending the bride and > > groom. > > > Mostly we eat at home with home cooked stuff. I often eat at my next > door > > neighbour's > > > house. She is an arabic muslim and she understands about dietary > > restrictions. I make a > > > curry or a stew or similar main course dish to take there and she makes > > some rice and > > > salad to go with it, and we have a great time stuffing our faces. She > > often > > > cooks stuff for me and brings it round in a pot. At first I think she > > cooked it in the same > > > pot as meat but she knows better now as I have trained her mind on this. > > > I hope you don't mind me asking but don't you find it difficult living > > with meat eaters? > > > Most of my friends are either veggie or veggie friendly. I could not > cook > > meat for anyone, > > > no way. If non vegans come round for a meal they get what we eat. > > > Also, you say you are the only vegan you know of. This must be really > > hard. If you could > > > find some other Vegans it wuld give you moral support. Perhaps yo could > > find out if there > > > are any groups in your area and join. Sometimes you can find vegans in > > related > > > organisations. I know a few through a wholefood co-op I am in. Also I > know > > some > > > vegetarians through friends who introduced me to them. > > > If you tell the group the area you live in, they may be able to suggest > > where to find other > > > vegans. > > > Let us know how you get on. > > > Herb, > > > Tyneside, > > > UK > > > , " Sandi " <sandisweeti13132001> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I was wondering to all the vegans(I am one for over 11 yrs.)do you > > > > find it tough to eat out at restuarants?my hubby and relatives are all > > > > meat eaters and we go out to eat,I usually order-garden salad/steamed > > > > veggies,fruit plate(stuff like that),but I have a constant worry about > > > > the way the chefs prepare the foods w/ the pots/pans/utensils/ovens > > > > maybe they are mixing things w/ the meat stuff or using the same items > > > > to prepare the foods????I rather not eat out,I usually eat at home > > > > then go out w/ them and not eat a thing or pack my own stuff.Where I > > > > live I am like the only vegan I know of.Any advice to make it easier > > > > to socialize-for thanksgiving my family got el pollo loco I just ate > > > > the food I had at home,come on I can't trust them right....since being > > > > a veagn not vegetarian I find a trust issue a big thing regarding > > > > cooking items(I don't want my vegan stuff to be cooked in the same pot > > > > as a meat product was cooked it a few hours ago)thank you all anyone > > > > else feel like me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 Fast food doesn't have to mean waste. Everything from V1 was recycled/able. Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:02 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant I agree there is way too much waste not just in restuarants but in supermarkets also, and whilst I appreciate the idea of Freegans, I fear that most of their diet is payed for. The Valley Vegan..........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: eh vegan fast food bugs me there's a certain mind set to *fast* food..a certain level of "its ok to waste alot" attitude... sandi gordon Nov 30, 2005 10:16 AM Re: Re: Dining out-rant I think restaurants assume everyone is a meat and dairy eater,they don't have enough options for us vegans. I do wish there were vegan fast food joints it would be great to go through a drive through to pick up a vegan hamburger/chicken/etc.Don't need no politician Tell me things I ought to be Neither no optician Tell me what I ought to see No one tells you nothing Even when you know they know They tell you what you should be They don't like to see you grow Peter H How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Photos. Get Photos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 I went to one place in Bath when I was over there on a course with work, I think it was Demuths, nearly had to do a runner when I saw the bill! The Valley Vegan...........jo <jo.heartwork wrote: There's Demuths in Bath. It is veggie with some vegan options. Very nice, but rather expensive. There is a pub called something like Porters that is a veggie pub. We had vegan burger, chips and salad there. It was nice but lots of loud music - not my kind either. Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:14 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Still you rub my face in it, so much choice! its a wonder you cook at all, and I bet its cheaper than over here? The Valley Vegan..........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: found some places in Bath..but that was way back when and we only ate out like twice while we were there.... here..shhhesssh...eaten out like 5 days out of the week last night was sushi at koryo sushi(4 blks from my haus) monday we had vegan japanese at cha ya in berkeley(damn good mushroom miso) saturday was herbivore in SF friday was pizza at lanesplitter... and yet..we still cook everyday...go figure... fraggle peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 10:56 AM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Well I guess you can be more choosy than us over here, you would probably never eat out much over here! The Valley Vegan............. It doesn't matter anywayNever understand our kindTry to disrespect what's mineYour words don't mean a thing to meYour living in a fantasyNow we have no more to sayWe'll get about it our wayfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i know a lot of vegans who won't eat at any place that uses the same pots and such for meat as well as veggies...everyone draws the line at different places...and, to me there is a major difference between stepping behind a carnivore, and eating off the same pan that has been used countless times to baste some dead critter....heartwerk Nov 30, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Dining out-rantI think it is possible to be too sensitive. I can't see any problem with eating food prepared in any utensil as long as it has been thoroughly washed. If you take that sort of thought further you might not want to go out of your house because people who eat meat have walked on the ground that you would walk on, and it would be somewhat of a joyless life.I agree with asking questions about how the food is prepared if you go to an omnivorous restaurant, and avoiding places that don't use cleaned utensils etc.JoDon't need no politicianTell me things I ought to be Neither no opticianTell me what I ought to seeNo one tells you nothingEven when you know they knowThey tell you what you should beThey don't like to see you grow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 If their usual offends someone ( or they have allergies etc.) then they should accomodate them, so I would disagree with you there.Same with meat eaters, they should take other peoples dietry preferences into consideration, or just not bother inviting them over? It is a two way street. The Valley Vegan............. Oh mercy, mercy meAh things ain't what they used to beWhat about this overcrowded landHow much more abuse from man can she stand?jo <jo.heartwork wrote: That's my point. We will not cook anything other than what we eat for otherpeople - and maybe shouldn't expect them to cook anything out of their usualfor us.Jo-"fraggle" Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:08 PMRe: Re: Dining out-rant> the baby cow will...>> and, i'll definately be sick if i eat cheese....>>> would ya be sick if ya ate a soup made of boiled babies???> prolly not until ya knew...>> everyone is different...like i always say> everyone takes veganism and diet to different levels>> i couldnever serve someone a non-vegan meal..that would be horrendous...> just like i couldn't help someone capture their escaped slave, just like iwouldn't sit back and watch as my guest beat the crap out of their kid, justlike i couldn't watch my guest yell racial epithets out my window....> etc and so forth>> > serene > Nov 30, 2005 10:14 AM> > Re: Re: Dining out-rant>>> On Wed, November 30, 2005 10:11 am, fraggle said:> > ah..but are they really cooking special foods?> > why are they special?> > can *they*(whomever they are) eat them?> > will they curl up and die if they eat string beans?>> Will you curl up and die if you eat cheese?>> I cook vegan nearly all the time. If someone requests something else, I> provide it. it's part of being a good host.>> serene>>>> To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 Good point. Jo For all you know , there could be Fruitarians out there tut tuting at you right now! and wishing to exclude you from their air space! Sits down and waits for the next barrage! The Valley Vegan....................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: sorry joi disagree with every fiber of my being.....my diet isn't *special*...i don't eat anything that comes from an animali don't want anything that comes from another animalthats torture...thats cruel...eh..you know wot i mean...*accomodating* someone how ate meat in my place would be akin to allowing a murderer to go right ahead and kill someone in my place..i mean.. its wot he does..i have to be accomodating...jo Nov 30, 2005 10:31 AM Subject: Re: Re: Dining out-rant> ah..but are they really cooking special foods?If it is something they would not normally cook for themselves or for theirother friends at a party/bbq - then yes it would be special food, just as avegan cooking meat would be cooking something special for someone else.> why are they special?Maybe special is not a word that has made my meaning clear. Maybe I shouldhave said different to their normal food.> can *they*(whomever they are) eat them?They can eat them, but might not like them or choose to eat them, just as avegan could eat meat but chooses not to.> will they curl up and die if they eat string beans?That's not a good example because if a vegan eat a lump of meat they wouldnot curl up and die either.If we expect other people to make a special effort for us to accommodate our(what seems to them) strange ways then shouldn't we be expected to make aspecial effort to accommodate (what seems to us) their strange ways. Howcan we think we are right to expect the rules to suit us from both angles?Or might it be better to eat the salad, and take along some nuts forprotein. Presumably you will have gone along to the gathering because youlike the people, not just to get a free meal.If you can't get my point I am obviously not making it very well. I am notsaying that meat-eaters are right to eat meat, merely pointing out thatmaybe we expect more than we are prepared to give.Jo>>>> if i knew someone who beat puppies, am i just suppose to play by theirrules when i see em?>> > jo > Nov 30, 2005 9:58 AM> > Re: Re: Dining out-rant>> I reckon it's a good idea to always take a bag of mixed nuts with you when> eating out - then if there is no protein in the dish you are given you can> eat the nuts and tell them that vegans need protein too and the mealdoesn't> have any!>> This is not a suggestion or an adverse comment either - it is just an> anomaly that I haven't reconciled in my mind yet. We say 'when peoplevisit> us they eat what we cook (i.e. no animal ingredients) and yet we complain> when they won't cook food different to their normal food for us. Surelyif> we expect them to cook special food for our tastes, we should cook foodfor> them for their tastes. As I said, I am not suggesting that we all cook> meat, cheese etc for our guests, but bearing this in mind, can we reallyask> them to cook special food for us?>> Jo> -> "herbvalerian" > > Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:24 PM> Re: Dining out-rant>>> > Hi,> > This can be a difficult one.> > I rarely go out to restaurants because there are no exclusivelyvegetarian> restaurants> > round here, tho we have a couple of vegetarian cafes and a pub which is> supposed to be> > vegetarian.> > Fortunately my other half is trying to be vegan and is totallyvegetarian> so we don't have> > conflict about where we go.> > When we do go out we usually go to to British Indian restaurants as they> seem to> > understand about the ethics of vegetarians and will check theingredients.> They always> > have a vegtarian section on the menus. Our local indian restaurant hasa> vegetarian chef.> > He makes me a special dish I ask for (spinach and lentil curry) which is> not on the menu. If> > we are going somehere new we usually phone ahead to check they have> something and if> > they seem funny on the phone we don't go.> > I have not been to a meat based restaurant in many years, in fact Icannot> remember it> > must have been so long ago. In fact I am not sure I have ever been toone> as I have been a> > veggie for 24 years now, all my adult life. I too would be concernedabout> utensils if I went> > to a meat based restaurant, it is the main reason I would not go to one.> > It is a really good idea to phone ahead when eating out and check. If> there is nothing for> > you there be> > assertive with your family and find a better restaurant. "Let yourfingers> do the walking"> > through the phone book and make some calls! You have to convince the> family that you> > are going to decide where to eat because they can eat anywhere, youcan't!> Once you do> > this a few times you will be able to build up a list of places where you> know you can eat> > safely and the staff will remember you, particularly if you are polite.> Stay away from fast> > food places unless you know one where you can get what you want. I don't> know about the> > kitchens but the staff change too much to get to know you.> > If you are just eating salads and steamed veggies you are not going tobe> getting a> > balanced diet. Vegans need nuts, tofu, beans etc.> > We attended a freind's wedding reception a while ago. The only thingthey> gave me was a> > plain salad. I was disgusted, it as the worst meal I had had out in my> entire life, but of> > course I could not say any thing for risk of offending the bride and> groom.> > Mostly we eat at home with home cooked stuff. I often eat at my nextdoor> neighbour's> > house. She is an arabic muslim and she understands about dietary> restrictions. I make a> > curry or a stew or similar main course dish to take there and she makes> some rice and> > salad to go with it, and we have a great time stuffing our faces. She> often> > cooks stuff for me and brings it round in a pot. At first I think she> cooked it in the same> > pot as meat but she knows better now as I have trained her mind on this.> > I hope you don't mind me asking but don't you find it difficult living> with meat eaters?> > Most of my friends are either veggie or veggie friendly. I could notcook> meat for anyone,> > no way. If non vegans come round for a meal they get what we eat.> > Also, you say you are the only vegan you know of. This must be really> hard. If you could> > find some other Vegans it wuld give you moral support. Perhaps yo could> find out if there> > are any groups in your area and join. Sometimes you can find vegans in> related> > organisations. I know a few through a wholefood co-op I am in. Also Iknow> some> > vegetarians through friends who introduced me to them.> > If you tell the group the area you live in, they may be able to suggest> where to find other> > vegans.> > Let us know how you get on.> > Herb,> > Tyneside,> > UK> > , "Sandi" > wrote:> > >> > > I was wondering to all the vegans(I am one for over 11 yrs.)do you> > > find it tough to eat out at restuarants?my hubby and relatives are all> > > meat eaters and we go out to eat,I usually order-garden salad/steamed> > > veggies,fruit plate(stuff like that),but I have a constant worry about> > > the way the chefs prepare the foods w/ the pots/pans/utensils/ovens> > > maybe they are mixing things w/ the meat stuff or using the same items> > > to prepare the foods????I rather not eat out,I usually eat at home> > > then go out w/ them and not eat a thing or pack my own stuff.Where I> > > live I am like the only vegan I know of.Any advice to make it easier> > > to socialize-for thanksgiving my family got el pollo loco I just ate> > > the food I had at home,come on I can't trust them right....since being> > > a veagn not vegetarian I find a trust issue a big thing regarding> > > cooking items(I don't want my vegan stuff to be cooked in the same pot> > > as a meat product was cooked it a few hours ago)thank you all anyone> > > else feel like me> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 Brush the teeth? why stop there?, why not wear a full body "condom" during moments of intimacy?, why not ask them to wear a gas mask witha reverse filter to avoid inhaling any of their expelled " tainted " breath. I hope that if a blood transfusion was needed, that they would specify " vegan blood only" Cooking utensils? If they are clean, then they contain no traces of animals surely ( dont call me shirley). Paranoid?, are you looking at me? The Valley Vegan........... You've got to tolerateAll those people that you hateI'm not in love with youBut I won't hold that against youfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: you'd have to ask themmy partner wouldn't kiss anyone who ate meat ..even when her ex wife did..she made her brush her teeth...and..if it bugged ya to cook in something that had animal products in it, i would imagine you could donate em to goodwill er somesuch....jo Nov 30, 2005 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Re: Dining out-rantI agree that people have different feelings on this. I couldn't afford tothrow my pans and utensils away when I gave up eating animals though. So Istill cook in pans that have cooked countless meat and dairy meals. Itwould be very wasteful to throw them away.Do these people kiss people who eat animals or only other vegans who don'tuse pans that have cooked animals :-)Jo----- Original Message -----"fraggle" Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:44 PMRe: Re: Dining out-rant> i know a lot of vegans who won't eat at any place that uses the same potsand such for meat as well as veggies...>> everyone draws the line at different places...>> and, to me there is a major difference between stepping behind acarnivore, and eating off the same pan that has been used countless times tobaste some dead critter....To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 if someone doesn't want to make something i can eat..fine....i just don't eat with em..fair enough tho...they still CAN eat wot i bring... not the other way around jo <jo.heartwork Nov 30, 2005 12:25 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant That's my point. We will not cook anything other than what we eat for other people - and maybe shouldn't expect them to cook anything out of their usual for us. Jo - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:08 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant > the baby cow will... > > and, i'll definately be sick if i eat cheese.... > > > would ya be sick if ya ate a soup made of boiled babies??? > prolly not until ya knew... > > everyone is different...like i always say > everyone takes veganism and diet to different levels > > i couldnever serve someone a non-vegan meal..that would be horrendous... > just like i couldn't help someone capture their escaped slave, just like i wouldn't sit back and watch as my guest beat the crap out of their kid, just like i couldn't watch my guest yell racial epithets out my window.... > etc and so forth > > > serene <lists > Nov 30, 2005 10:14 AM > > Re: Re: Dining out-rant > > > On Wed, November 30, 2005 10:11 am, fraggle said: > > ah..but are they really cooking special foods? > > why are they special? > > can *they*(whomever they are) eat them? > > will they curl up and die if they eat string beans? > > Will you curl up and die if you eat cheese? > > I cook vegan nearly all the time. If someone requests something else, I > provide it. it's part of being a good host. > > serene > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 and..at one point i guess it would have been special if you stood up against slavery? i guess it was special if you thought everyone should have the right to vote maybe its just yer term *special* jo <jo.heartwork Nov 30, 2005 12:29 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant You are still missing my point Fraggle. Your diet isn't special to you but to the vast majority of the population your diet is 'special. If you can't see that, then there is nothing else I can say. Jo - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:16 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant > sorry jo > i disagree with every fiber of my being..... > > my diet isn't *special*... > i don't eat anything that comes from an animal > i don't want anything that comes from another animal > thats torture...thats cruel...eh..you know wot i mean... > > *accomodating* someone how ate meat in my place would be akin to allowing a murderer to go right ahead and kill someone in my place..i mean.. its wot he does..i have to be accomodating... > > > jo <jo.heartwork > Nov 30, 2005 10:31 AM > > Re: Re: Dining out-rant > > > > ah..but are they really cooking special foods? > If it is something they would not normally cook for themselves or for their > other friends at a party/bbq - then yes it would be special food, just as a > vegan cooking meat would be cooking something special for someone else. > > > why are they special? > Maybe special is not a word that has made my meaning clear. Maybe I should > have said different to their normal food. > > > can *they*(whomever they are) eat them? > They can eat them, but might not like them or choose to eat them, just as a > vegan could eat meat but chooses not to. > > > will they curl up and die if they eat string beans? > That's not a good example because if a vegan eat a lump of meat they would > not curl up and die either. > > If we expect other people to make a special effort for us to accommodate our > (what seems to them) strange ways then shouldn't we be expected to make a > special effort to accommodate (what seems to us) their strange ways. How > can we think we are right to expect the rules to suit us from both angles? > > Or might it be better to eat the salad, and take along some nuts for > protein. Presumably you will have gone along to the gathering because you > like the people, not just to get a free meal. > > If you can't get my point I am obviously not making it very well. I am not > saying that meat-eaters are right to eat meat, merely pointing out that > maybe we expect more than we are prepared to give. > > Jo > > > > > > > > if i knew someone who beat puppies, am i just suppose to play by their > rules when i see em? > > > > > > jo <jo.heartwork > > Nov 30, 2005 9:58 AM > > > > Re: Re: Dining out-rant > > > > I reckon it's a good idea to always take a bag of mixed nuts with you when > > eating out - then if there is no protein in the dish you are given you can > > eat the nuts and tell them that vegans need protein too and the meal > doesn't > > have any! > > > > This is not a suggestion or an adverse comment either - it is just an > > anomaly that I haven't reconciled in my mind yet. We say 'when people > visit > > us they eat what we cook (i.e. no animal ingredients) and yet we complain > > when they won't cook food different to their normal food for us. Surely > if > > we expect them to cook special food for our tastes, we should cook food > for > > them for their tastes. As I said, I am not suggesting that we all cook > > meat, cheese etc for our guests, but bearing this in mind, can we really > ask > > them to cook special food for us? > > > > Jo > > - > > " herbvalerian " <herbvalerian > > > > Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:24 PM > > Re: Dining out-rant > > > > > > > Hi, > > > This can be a difficult one. > > > I rarely go out to restaurants because there are no exclusively > vegetarian > > restaurants > > > round here, tho we have a couple of vegetarian cafes and a pub which is > > supposed to be > > > vegetarian. > > > Fortunately my other half is trying to be vegan and is totally > vegetarian > > so we don't have > > > conflict about where we go. > > > When we do go out we usually go to to British Indian restaurants as they > > seem to > > > understand about the ethics of vegetarians and will check the > ingredients. > > They always > > > have a vegtarian section on the menus. Our local indian restaurant has > a > > vegetarian chef. > > > He makes me a special dish I ask for (spinach and lentil curry) which is > > not on the menu. If > > > we are going somehere new we usually phone ahead to check they have > > something and if > > > they seem funny on the phone we don't go. > > > I have not been to a meat based restaurant in many years, in fact I > cannot > > remember it > > > must have been so long ago. In fact I am not sure I have ever been to > one > > as I have been a > > > veggie for 24 years now, all my adult life. I too would be concerned > about > > utensils if I went > > > to a meat based restaurant, it is the main reason I would not go to one. > > > It is a really good idea to phone ahead when eating out and check. If > > there is nothing for > > > you there be > > > assertive with your family and find a better restaurant. " Let your > fingers > > do the walking " > > > through the phone book and make some calls! You have to convince the > > family that you > > > are going to decide where to eat because they can eat anywhere, you > can't! > > Once you do > > > this a few times you will be able to build up a list of places where you > > know you can eat > > > safely and the staff will remember you, particularly if you are polite. > > Stay away from fast > > > food places unless you know one where you can get what you want. I don't > > know about the > > > kitchens but the staff change too much to get to know you. > > > If you are just eating salads and steamed veggies you are not going to > be > > getting a > > > balanced diet. Vegans need nuts, tofu, beans etc. > > > We attended a freind's wedding reception a while ago. The only thing > they > > gave me was a > > > plain salad. I was disgusted, it as the worst meal I had had out in my > > entire life, but of > > > course I could not say any thing for risk of offending the bride and > > groom. > > > Mostly we eat at home with home cooked stuff. I often eat at my next > door > > neighbour's > > > house. She is an arabic muslim and she understands about dietary > > restrictions. I make a > > > curry or a stew or similar main course dish to take there and she makes > > some rice and > > > salad to go with it, and we have a great time stuffing our faces. She > > often > > > cooks stuff for me and brings it round in a pot. At first I think she > > cooked it in the same > > > pot as meat but she knows better now as I have trained her mind on this. > > > I hope you don't mind me asking but don't you find it difficult living > > with meat eaters? > > > Most of my friends are either veggie or veggie friendly. I could not > cook > > meat for anyone, > > > no way. If non vegans come round for a meal they get what we eat. > > > Also, you say you are the only vegan you know of. This must be really > > hard. If you could > > > find some other Vegans it wuld give you moral support. Perhaps yo could > > find out if there > > > are any groups in your area and join. Sometimes you can find vegans in > > related > > > organisations. I know a few through a wholefood co-op I am in. Also I > know > > some > > > vegetarians through friends who introduced me to them. > > > If you tell the group the area you live in, they may be able to suggest > > where to find other > > > vegans. > > > Let us know how you get on. > > > Herb, > > > Tyneside, > > > UK > > > , " Sandi " <sandisweeti13132001> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I was wondering to all the vegans(I am one for over 11 yrs.)do you > > > > find it tough to eat out at restuarants?my hubby and relatives are all > > > > meat eaters and we go out to eat,I usually order-garden salad/steamed > > > > veggies,fruit plate(stuff like that),but I have a constant worry about > > > > the way the chefs prepare the foods w/ the pots/pans/utensils/ovens > > > > maybe they are mixing things w/ the meat stuff or using the same items > > > > to prepare the foods????I rather not eat out,I usually eat at home > > > > then go out w/ them and not eat a thing or pack my own stuff.Where I > > > > live I am like the only vegan I know of.Any advice to make it easier > > > > to socialize-for thanksgiving my family got el pollo loco I just ate > > > > the food I had at home,come on I can't trust them right....since being > > > > a veagn not vegetarian I find a trust issue a big thing regarding > > > > cooking items(I don't want my vegan stuff to be cooked in the same pot > > > > as a meat product was cooked it a few hours ago)thank you all anyone > > > > else feel like me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 some friends mentioned the place..i think...they liked the thali there..if thats the place peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 12:40 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant I went to one place in Bath when I was over there on a course with work, I think it was Demuths, nearly had to do a runner when I saw the bill! The Valley Vegan...........jo <jo.heartwork wrote: There's Demuths in Bath. It is veggie with some vegan options. Very nice, but rather expensive. There is a pub called something like Porters that is a veggie pub. We had vegan burger, chips and salad there. It was nice but lots of loud music - not my kind either. Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:14 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Still you rub my face in it, so much choice! its a wonder you cook at all, and I bet its cheaper than over here? The Valley Vegan..........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: found some places in Bath..but that was way back when and we only ate out like twice while we were there.... here..shhhesssh...eaten out like 5 days out of the week last night was sushi at koryo sushi(4 blks from my haus) monday we had vegan japanese at cha ya in berkeley(damn good mushroom miso) saturday was herbivore in SF friday was pizza at lanesplitter... and yet..we still cook everyday...go figure... fraggle peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 10:56 AM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Well I guess you can be more choosy than us over here, you would probably never eat out much over here! The Valley Vegan............. It doesn't matter anywayNever understand our kindTry to disrespect what's mineYour words don't mean a thing to meYour living in a fantasyNow we have no more to sayWe'll get about it our wayfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i know a lot of vegans who won't eat at any place that uses the same pots and such for meat as well as veggies...everyone draws the line at different places...and, to me there is a major difference between stepping behind a carnivore, and eating off the same pan that has been used countless times to baste some dead critter....heartwerk Nov 30, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Dining out-rantI think it is possible to be too sensitive. I can't see any problem with eating food prepared in any utensil as long as it has been thoroughly washed. If you take that sort of thought further you might not want to go out of your house because people who eat meat have walked on the ground that you would walk on, and it would be somewhat of a joyless life.I agree with asking questions about how the food is prepared if you go to an omnivorous restaurant, and avoiding places that don't use cleaned utensils etc.JoDon't need no politicianTell me things I ought to be Neither no opticianTell me what I ought to seeNo one tells you nothingEven when you know they knowThey tell you what you should beThey don't like to see you grow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 Yeah, expensive. We've been there twice, but I can't understand why they charge so much. Try the pub next time - it was quite good - the food was delicious even though it was not posh. Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:40 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant I went to one place in Bath when I was over there on a course with work, I think it was Demuths, nearly had to do a runner when I saw the bill! The Valley Vegan...........jo <jo.heartwork wrote: There's Demuths in Bath. It is veggie with some vegan options. Very nice, but rather expensive. There is a pub called something like Porters that is a veggie pub. We had vegan burger, chips and salad there. It was nice but lots of loud music - not my kind either. Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:14 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Still you rub my face in it, so much choice! its a wonder you cook at all, and I bet its cheaper than over here? The Valley Vegan..........fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: found some places in Bath..but that was way back when and we only ate out like twice while we were there.... here..shhhesssh...eaten out like 5 days out of the week last night was sushi at koryo sushi(4 blks from my haus) monday we had vegan japanese at cha ya in berkeley(damn good mushroom miso) saturday was herbivore in SF friday was pizza at lanesplitter... and yet..we still cook everyday...go figure... fraggle peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 10:56 AM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Well I guess you can be more choosy than us over here, you would probably never eat out much over here! The Valley Vegan............. It doesn't matter anywayNever understand our kindTry to disrespect what's mineYour words don't mean a thing to meYour living in a fantasyNow we have no more to sayWe'll get about it our wayfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: i know a lot of vegans who won't eat at any place that uses the same pots and such for meat as well as veggies...everyone draws the line at different places...and, to me there is a major difference between stepping behind a carnivore, and eating off the same pan that has been used countless times to baste some dead critter....heartwerk Nov 30, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Dining out-rantI think it is possible to be too sensitive. I can't see any problem with eating food prepared in any utensil as long as it has been thoroughly washed. If you take that sort of thought further you might not want to go out of your house because people who eat meat have walked on the ground that you would walk on, and it would be somewhat of a joyless life.I agree with asking questions about how the food is prepared if you go to an omnivorous restaurant, and avoiding places that don't use cleaned utensils etc.JoDon't need no politicianTell me things I ought to be Neither no opticianTell me what I ought to seeNo one tells you nothingEven when you know they knowThey tell you what you should beThey don't like to see you grow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 Unless they are Fruitarian! The Valley Vegan...............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: if someone doesn't want to make something i can eat..fine....i just don't eat with em..fair enoughtho...they still CAN eat wot i bring...not the other way aroundjo Nov 30, 2005 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Re: Dining out-rantThat's my point. We will not cook anything other than what we eat for otherpeople - and maybe shouldn't expect them to cook anything out of their usualfor us.Jo-"fraggle" Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:08 PMRe: Re: Dining out-rant> the baby cow will...>> and, i'll definately be sick if i eat cheese....>>> would ya be sick if ya ate a soup made of boiled babies???> prolly not until ya knew...>> everyone is different...like i always say> everyone takes veganism and diet to different levels>> i couldnever serve someone a non-vegan meal..that would be horrendous...> just like i couldn't help someone capture their escaped slave, just like iwouldn't sit back and watch as my guest beat the crap out of their kid, justlike i couldn't watch my guest yell racial epithets out my window....> etc and so forth>> > serene > Nov 30, 2005 10:14 AM> > Re: Re: Dining out-rant>>> On Wed, November 30, 2005 10:11 am, fraggle said:> > ah..but are they really cooking special foods?> > why are they special?> > can *they*(whomever they are) eat them?> > will they curl up and die if they eat string beans?>> Will you curl up and die if you eat cheese?>> I cook vegan nearly all the time. If someone requests something else, I> provide it. it's part of being a good host.>> serene>>>> To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 It is a two way street - but both streets should not favour vegans. Meat eating is a dietary preference for those who eat meat. I don't think we can expect everyone else to accommodate us if we are not willing to do the same. I would not put myself in that position. If I accept an invitation to a party, buffet, bbq run by omnivores I would take some of my own food. I would not cook meat for an omnivore that accepted an invitation to my house, but I wouldn't throw them out if they came with their own supply. I think it is a matter of balance. As for them not inviting vegans - maybe the vegan should decline the invitation if they feel the situation is too difficult for them to handle gracefully. Jo - peter hurd Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:48 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant If their usual offends someone ( or they have allergies etc.) then they should accomodate them, so I would disagree with you there.Same with meat eaters, they should take other peoples dietry preferences into consideration, or just not bother inviting them over? It is a two way street. The Valley Vegan............. Oh mercy, mercy meAh things ain't what they used to beWhat about this overcrowded landHow much more abuse from man can she stand?jo <jo.heartwork wrote: That's my point. We will not cook anything other than what we eat for otherpeople - and maybe shouldn't expect them to cook anything out of their usualfor us.Jo-"fraggle" Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:08 PMRe: Re: Dining out-rant> the baby cow will...>> and, i'll definately be sick if i eat cheese....>>> would ya be sick if ya ate a soup made of boiled babies???> prolly not until ya knew...>> everyone is different...like i always say> everyone takes veganism and diet to different levels>> i couldnever serve someone a non-vegan meal..that would be horrendous...> just like i couldn't help someone capture their escaped slave, just like iwouldn't sit back and watch as my guest beat the crap out of their kid, justlike i couldn't watch my guest yell racial epithets out my window....> etc and so forth>> > serene > Nov 30, 2005 10:14 AM> > Re: Re: Dining out-rant>>> On Wed, November 30, 2005 10:11 am, fraggle said:> > ah..but are they really cooking special foods?> > why are they special?> > can *they*(whomever they are) eat them?> > will they curl up and die if they eat string beans?>> Will you curl up and die if you eat cheese?>> I cook vegan nearly all the time. If someone requests something else, I> provide it. it's part of being a good host.>> serene>>>> To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 A tad testy? is that a baby frogs bollock? The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone is a tad testy.... peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 1:01 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Brush the teeth? why stop there?, why not wear a full body "condom" during moments of intimacy?, why not ask them to wear a gas mask witha reverse filter to avoid inhaling any of their expelled " tainted " breath. I hope that if a blood transfusion was needed, that they would specify " vegan blood only" Cooking utensils? If they are clean, then they contain no traces of animals surely ( dont call me shirley). Paranoid?, are you looking at me? The Valley Vegan........... You've got to tolerateAll those people that you hateI'm not in love with youBut I won't hold that against youfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: you'd have to ask themmy partner wouldn't kiss anyone who ate meat ..even when her ex wife did..she made her brush her teeth...and..if it bugged ya to cook in something that had animal products in it, i would imagine you could donate em to goodwill er somesuch....jo Nov 30, 2005 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Re: Dining out-rantI agree that people have different feelings on this. I couldn't afford tothrow my pans and utensils away when I gave up eating animals though. So Istill cook in pans that have cooked countless meat and dairy meals. Itwould be very wasteful to throw them away.Do these people kiss people who eat animals or only other vegans who don'tuse pans that have cooked animals :-)Jo----- Original Message -----"fraggle" Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:44 PMRe: Re: Dining out-rant> i know a lot of vegans who won't eat at any place that uses the same potsand such for meat as well as veggies...>> everyone draws the line at different places...>> and, to me there is a major difference between stepping behind acarnivore, and eating off the same pan that has been used countless times tobaste some dead critter....To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 was talkin about carnies and..if i was invited to a fruitarians get together..i would make sure to bring stuff they could eat peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 1:13 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Unless they are Fruitarian! The Valley Vegan...............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: if someone doesn't want to make something i can eat..fine....i just don't eat with em..fair enoughtho...they still CAN eat wot i bring...not the other way aroundjo Nov 30, 2005 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Re: Dining out-rantThat's my point. We will not cook anything other than what we eat for otherpeople - and maybe shouldn't expect them to cook anything out of their usualfor us.Jo-"fraggle" Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:08 PMRe: Re: Dining out-rant> the baby cow will...>> and, i'll definately be sick if i eat cheese....>>> would ya be sick if ya ate a soup made of boiled babies???> prolly not until ya knew...>> everyone is different...like i always say> everyone takes veganism and diet to different levels>> i couldnever serve someone a non-vegan meal..that would be horrendous...> just like i couldn't help someone capture their escaped slave, just like iwouldn't sit back and watch as my guest beat the crap out of their kid, justlike i couldn't watch my guest yell racial epithets out my window....> etc and so forth>> > serene > Nov 30, 2005 10:14 AM> > Re: Re: Dining out-rant>>> On Wed, November 30, 2005 10:11 am, fraggle said:> > ah..but are they really cooking special foods?> > why are they special?> > can *they*(whomever they are) eat them?> > will they curl up and die if they eat string beans?>> Will you curl up and die if you eat cheese?>> I cook vegan nearly all the time. If someone requests something else, I> provide it. it's part of being a good host.>> serene>>>> To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 nah, he was a famous B movie actor in the 50's peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 1:19 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant A tad testy? is that a baby frogs bollock? The Valley Vegan.............fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: someone is a tad testy.... peter hurd Nov 30, 2005 1:01 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Brush the teeth? why stop there?, why not wear a full body "condom" during moments of intimacy?, why not ask them to wear a gas mask witha reverse filter to avoid inhaling any of their expelled " tainted " breath. I hope that if a blood transfusion was needed, that they would specify " vegan blood only" Cooking utensils? If they are clean, then they contain no traces of animals surely ( dont call me shirley). Paranoid?, are you looking at me? The Valley Vegan........... You've got to tolerateAll those people that you hateI'm not in love with youBut I won't hold that against youfraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: you'd have to ask themmy partner wouldn't kiss anyone who ate meat ..even when her ex wife did..she made her brush her teeth...and..if it bugged ya to cook in something that had animal products in it, i would imagine you could donate em to goodwill er somesuch....jo Nov 30, 2005 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Re: Dining out-rantI agree that people have different feelings on this. I couldn't afford tothrow my pans and utensils away when I gave up eating animals though. So Istill cook in pans that have cooked countless meat and dairy meals. Itwould be very wasteful to throw them away.Do these people kiss people who eat animals or only other vegans who don'tuse pans that have cooked animals :-)Jo-"fraggle" Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:44 PMRe: Re: Dining out-rant> i know a lot of vegans who won't eat at any place that uses the same potsand such for meat as well as veggies...>> everyone draws the line at different places...>> and, to me there is a major difference between stepping behind acarnivore, and eating off the same pan that has been used countless times tobaste some dead critter....To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 If you can see that then what's the problem? If special makes you feel prickly, subsitute the word 'different'. Jo > maybe its just yer term *special* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 sure..there are different ways of lookin at things... i never faulted you once fer knowing you wouldn't like the vegan vixens thingee..i just knew it wasn't yer style thats you..and not askin you to change but..fer some folks...having someone change a core belief would just wreck waay to much habit in a relationship you start wondering what else could change..what are they thinking now? do you truly know them your relationship with your colin is yers..and it is unique..as is everyone elses out there... i never asked if ya would break up with yer luv if he started munchin on bambi but..i know a lot of ppl who would certainly consider it in their relationships... jo Nov 30, 2005 1:09 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Would I give up Colin if he went back to eating animals - NO. Would I expect him to give me up if I started eating animals - NO. Would Peter or our daughter expect Colin and I to part company over a change of diet, even if we wished it was different? Would I disown Peter if he became unvegan - NO. Being vegan might be the right thing to do, but it shouldn't rob us of our compassion and feeling for others. As you pointed out when you posted about the vegan vixens - you knew I wouldn't like it. Now it doesn't matter whether I am right or wrong - most people think it is okay (just like most people think eating meat is okay). Should I not talk to you because you like something I think differently about? To me being unfaithful to a partner is as bad as eating meat - should I not mix with people who have been unfaithful, or insist that if they are in my house they will not be unfaithful or use different dishes to me? I think not, because these people have different ways of looking at things, just as meat eaters do. Jo - fraggle Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:04 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant like i said..everyone is different... every takes things differently one of the reasons my last major relationship soured was because my then partner stopped being vegan... she might as well have said "hey, i think i'm gonna be racist now" it amounts to the same thing in my book... ruby is vegan,,...i give her the ebst diet i can lickey is not why? cuz he's headin fer 17 yrs of age, and is a finisky little bugger..try feeding him vegan cat fud, and he just turned up his nose and walked away after many aborted attempts, and him losing a lot of weight, i gave up do i feel bad..yup.... not much else i can do about it tho... but..i can do something about someone else eatin something dead in my haus..and i can do something about me serving something dead... I personally think we are all special, and I think you are over reacting. Perhaps you think that I should boot out my wife for eating dead things, and maybe my kids too for being mere vegetarians, while I am at it why dont I flagelate myself for feeding my cats dead animals in a tin? Integration, not segregation please. We may have different beliefs and lifestyles, but we all need to get along. No-one is asking for you to compromise your beliefs and eat an animal limb now and again, just let the ones that do ( if they must)For all you know , there could be Fruitarians out there tut tuting at you right now! and wishing to exclude you from their air space! Sits down and waits for the next barrage! The Valley Vegan....................fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote: sorry joi disagree with every fiber of my being.....my diet isn't *special*...i don't eat anything that comes from an animali don't want anything that comes from another animalthats torture...thats cruel...eh..you know wot i mean...*accomodating* someone how ate meat in my place would be akin to allowing a murderer to go right ahead and kill someone in my place..i mean.. its wot he does..i have to be accomodating...jo Nov 30, 2005 10:31 AM Subject: Re: Re: Dining out-rant> ah..but are they really cooking special foods?If it is something they would not normally cook for themselves or for theirother friends at a party/bbq - then yes it would be special food, just as avegan cooking meat would be cooking something special for someone else.> why are they special?Maybe special is not a word that has made my meaning clear. Maybe I shouldhave said different to their normal food.> can *they*(whomever they are) eat them?They can eat them, but might not like them or choose to eat them, just as avegan could eat meat but chooses not to.> will they curl up and die if they eat string beans?That's not a good example because if a vegan eat a lump of meat they wouldnot curl up and die either.If we expect other people to make a special effort for us to accommodate our(what seems to them) strange ways then shouldn't we be expected to make aspecial effort to accommodate (what seems to us) their strange ways. Howcan we think we are right to expect the rules to suit us from both angles?Or might it be better to eat the salad, and take along some nuts forprotein. Presumably you will have gone along to the gathering because youlike the people, not just to get a free meal.If you can't get my point I am obviously not making it very well. I am notsaying that meat-eaters are right to eat meat, merely pointing out thatmaybe we expect more than we are prepared to give.Jo>>>> if i knew someone who beat puppies, am i just suppose to play by theirrules when i see em?>> > jo > Nov 30, 2005 9:58 AM> > Re: Re: Dining out-rant>> I reckon it's a good idea to always take a bag of mixed nuts with you when> eating out - then if there is no protein in the dish you are given you can> eat the nuts and tell them that vegans need protein too and the mealdoesn't> have any!>> This is not a suggestion or an adverse comment either - it is just an> anomaly that I haven't reconciled in my mind yet. We say 'when peoplevisit> us they eat what we cook (i.e. no animal ingredients) and yet we complain> when they won't cook food different to their normal food for us. Surelyif> we expect them to cook special food for our tastes, we should cook foodfor> them for their tastes. As I said, I am not suggesting that we all cook> meat, cheese etc for our guests, but bearing this in mind, can we reallyask> them to cook special food for us?>> Jo> -> "herbvalerian" > > Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:24 PM> Re: Dining out-rant>>> > Hi,> > This can be a difficult one.> > I rarely go out to restaurants because there are no exclusivelyvegetarian> restaurants> > round here, tho we have a couple of vegetarian cafes and a pub which is> supposed to be> > vegetarian.> > Fortunately my other half is trying to be vegan and is totallyvegetarian> so we don't have> > conflict about where we go.> > When we do go out we usually go to to British Indian restaurants as they> seem to> > understand about the ethics of vegetarians and will check theingredients.> They always> > have a vegtarian section on the menus. Our local indian restaurant hasa> vegetarian chef.> > He makes me a special dish I ask for (spinach and lentil curry) which is> not on the menu. If> > we are going somehere new we usually phone ahead to check they have> something and if> > they seem funny on the phone we don't go.> > I have not been to a meat based restaurant in many years, in fact Icannot> remember it> > must have been so long ago. In fact I am not sure I have ever been toone> as I have been a> > veggie for 24 years now, all my adult life. I too would be concernedabout> utensils if I went> > to a meat based restaurant, it is the main reason I would not go to one.> > It is a really good idea to phone ahead when eating out and check. If> there is nothing for> > you there be> > assertive with your family and find a better restaurant. "Let yourfingers> do the walking"> > through the phone book and make some calls! You have to convince the> family that you> > are going to decide where to eat because they can eat anywhere, youcan't!> Once you do> > this a few times you will be able to build up a list of places where you> know you can eat> > safely and the staff will remember you, particularly if you are polite.> Stay away from fast> > food places unless you know one where you can get what you want. I don't> know about the> > kitchens but the staff change too much to get to know you.> > If you are just eating salads and steamed veggies you are not going tobe> getting a> > balanced diet. Vegans need nuts, tofu, beans etc.> > We attended a freind's wedding reception a while ago. The only thingthey> gave me was a> > plain salad. I was disgusted, it as the worst meal I had had out in my> entire life, but of> > course I could not say any thing for risk of offending the bride and> groom.> > Mostly we eat at home with home cooked stuff. I often eat at my nextdoor> neighbour's> > house. She is an arabic muslim and she understands about dietary> restrictions. I make a> > curry or a stew or similar main course dish to take there and she makes> some rice and> > salad to go with it, and we have a great time stuffing our faces. She> often> > cooks stuff for me and brings it round in a pot. At first I think she> cooked it in the same> > pot as meat but she knows better now as I have trained her mind on this.> > I hope you don't mind me asking but don't you find it difficult living> with meat eaters?> > Most of my friends are either veggie or veggie friendly. I could notcook> meat for anyone,> > no way. If non vegans come round for a meal they get what we eat.> > Also, you say you are the only vegan you know of. This must be really> hard. If you could> > find some other Vegans it wuld give you moral support. Perhaps yo could> find out if there> > are any groups in your area and join. Sometimes you can find vegans in> related> > organisations. I know a few through a wholefood co-op I am in. Also Iknow> some> > vegetarians through friends who introduced me to them.> > If you tell the group the area you live in, they may be able to suggest> where to find other> > vegans.> > Let us know how you get on.> > Herb,> > Tyneside,> > UK> > , "Sandi" > wrote:> > >> > > I was wondering to all the vegans(I am one for over 11 yrs.)do you> > > find it tough to eat out at restuarants?my hubby and relatives are all> > > meat eaters and we go out to eat,I usually order-garden salad/steamed> > > veggies,fruit plate(stuff like that),but I have a constant worry about> > > the way the chefs prepare the foods w/ the pots/pans/utensils/ovens> > > maybe they are mixing things w/ the meat stuff or using the same items> > > to prepare the foods????I rather not eat out,I usually eat at home> > > then go out w/ them and not eat a thing or pack my own stuff.Where I> > > live I am like the only vegan I know of.Any advice to make it easier> > > to socialize-for thanksgiving my family got el pollo loco I just ate> > > the food I had at home,come on I can't trust them right....since being> > > a veagn not vegetarian I find a trust issue a big thing regarding> > > cooking items(I don't want my vegan stuff to be cooked in the same pot> > > as a meat product was cooked it a few hours ago)thank you all anyone> > > else feel like me> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 yup... actually..not boots..have had vegan boots fer ever... i would have happily gotten rid of my jacket if i had a replacement... and, never asked er assumed it did bug you jo..was just answerin yer question... jo <jo.heartwork Nov 30, 2005 1:19 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant It doesn't bug me to cook in my pans just because they once had meat in them. They have been washed. It is no different to wearing your leather jacket or shoes until they wear out, which I believe is what you did for a few years. Jo - " fraggle " <EBbrewpunx Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:48 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant > you'd have to ask them > my partner wouldn't kiss anyone who ate meat ..even when her ex wife did..she made her brush her teeth... > > and..if it bugged ya to cook in something that had animal products in it, i would imagine you could donate em to goodwill er somesuch.... To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2005 wot sorta style is it? sounds like a more upscale *cuisine* type place.. jo Nov 30, 2005 1:11 PM Re: Re: Dining out-rant Yeah, expensive. We've been there twice, but I can't understand why they charge so much. Try the pub next time - it was quite good - the food was delicious even though it was not posh. Jo ----- Don't need no politician Tell me things I ought to be Neither no optician Tell me what I ought to see No one tells you nothing Even when you know they know They tell you what you should be They don't like to see you grow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
