Top heavy

[theist]

I often feel out of balance. Too much into my head and the mental plane. I often mistake talking in circles about some God conscious topic to be a real connection with Krishna.

 

Heart still not open to the Lord and other living beings.

 

Sure would hate to die in this position.

 

[theist]

TRANSLATION SB 3.25.43

The yogīs, equipped with transcendentalknowledge and renunciation and engaged in devotional service for theireternal benefit, take shelter of My lotus feet, and since I am theLord, they are thus eligible to enter into the kingdom of Godheadwithout fear.

PURPORT

One who actually wants to be liberated from theentanglement of this material world and go back home, back to Godhead,is actually a mystic yogī. The words explicitly used here are yuktena bhakti-yogena. Those yogīs, or mystics, who engage in devotional service are the first-class yogīs. The first-class yogīs, as described in Bhagavad-gītā, are those who are constantly thinking of the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. These yogīs are not without knowledge and renunciation. To become a bhakti-yogī means to automatically attain knowledge and renunciation. That is the consequent result of bhakti-yoga. In the Bhāgavatam,First Canto, Second Chapter, it is also confirmed that one who engagesin the devotional service of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, has completetranscendental knowledge and renunciation, and there is no explanationfor these attainments. Ahaitukī—without reason, they come. Even if a person is completely illiterate,the transcendental knowledge of the scriptures is revealed unto himsimply because of his engagement in devotional service. That is alsostated in the Vedic literature. To anyone who has full faith in theSupreme Personality of Godhead and the spiritual master, all the importof the Vedic literatures is revealed. He does not have to seekseparately; the yogīs who engage indevotional service are full in knowledge and renunciation. If there isa lack of knowledge and renunciation, it is to be understood that oneis not in full devotional service. The conclusion is that one cannot besure of entrance into the spiritual realm—in either the impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence of the Lord or the Vaikuṇṭha planets within that Brahman effulgence—unless he is surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord. The surrendered souls are called akuto-bhaya. They are doubtless and fearless, and their entrance into the spiritual kingdom is guaranteed.

 

 

If there isa lack of knowledge and renunciation, it is to be understood that oneis not in full devotional service.

 

This brings up a question in my mind. If someone is illiterate how can he be full of knowledge? That brings up the question of what is the real definition of knowledge?

 

Can someone help here please?

[sanatan]

Re post #1, Great pic!

 

Perhaps you're mistaking being a cerebral-type person by nature, and enjoying the things that come naturally to such, as the lack of balance or "top-heaviness" you refer to.

 

Maybe start writing your memoirs or a book? Get involved with a small, grassroots KC service project, even if it's just a few hours time or a few bucks donated? Either is a focused way to channel some energy; writing in particular will bring up issues in the subconscious.

 

Your heart, from knowing you online, is probably much more open than you realize...I'd guess you're in a hopefully-passing shutdown mode, as I am.

 

It's "heavy maya", for sure, but I find a blast down the road in my sports car as good as anything to put stuff in perspective.

[theist]

good ideas sanatan. I'm 57 yrs. in the body now and am in a rut. I don't want to die so out of balance. Devotional service to Krishna means a change of heart.

 

Sports car idea is attractive only I don't drive. I love to drive but I hate traffic. I would have to clear the world of other cars first.

[suchandra]

 

I often feel out of balance.

The actual symptom of someone having entered the path of genuine spiritual life is that he/she doesn't feel comfortable anymore in a material society, doesn't feel to be part of the materialists rat race. This is actual progress, the real meaning of becoming human being. As the Bible says, one cannot serve two masters. When a person tries to have sympathy for the material world and simultaneously to serve Krsna, his brain is actually making simultaneous forks in the road. It makes people go a little bonkers. But gradually we learn that we cannot split into two and then things become easier. It is actually very dangerous, one is trying to serve God and Satan at the same time, so he ends up as a dangerous cult person who has all kinds of mental problems.

[theist]

 

The actual symptom of someone having entered the path of genuine spiritual life is that he/she doesn't feel comfortable anymore in a material society, doesn't feel to be part of the materialists rat race. This is actual progress, the real meaning of becoming human being. As the Bible says, one cannot serve two masters. When a person tries to have sympathy for the material world and simultaneously to serve Krsna, his brain is actually making simultaneous forks in the road. It makes people go a little bonkers. But gradually we learn that we cannot split into two and then things become easier. It is actually very dangerous, one is trying to serve God and Satan at the same time, so he ends up as a dangerous cult person who has all kinds of mental problems.

 

 

You have just described my entire adult life. Prabhupada ruined my material life and I still haven't adjusted.

 

 

There is another type of imbalance. The one I am thinking of is between head and heart.

[bija]

 

If there is a lack of knowledge and renunciation, it is to be understood that one is not in full devotional service. The conclusion is that one cannot be sure of entrance into the spiritual realm—in either the impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence of the Lord or the Vaikuṇṭha planets within that Brahman effulgence—unless he is surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord. The surrendered souls are called akuto-bhaya. They are doubtless and fearless, and their entrance into the spiritual kingdom is guaranteed.

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> If there isa lack of knowledge and renunciation, it is to be understood that one is not in full devotional service. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

This brings up a question in my mind. If someone is illiterate how can he be full of knowledge? That brings up the question of what is the real definition of knowledge?

...The surrendered souls are called akuto-bhaya. They are doubtless and fearless, and their entrance into the spiritual kingdom is guaranteed....

 

The devotee sees the Supreme Personality in all things. The devotee is very simple in that his realization is 'Krsna is everything, Krsna is my master, all things are for Krsna's pleasure'.

 

The divine realization is devotional service...and the guru teaches the disciple to see Sri GaurangaKrsna everywhere.

 

With this vision the devotee becomes fearless in full self surrender. That is devotional knowledge, that any person can understand. That is also perfect renunciation.

 

Infact Theist, according to Srila Prabhupada, with that type of vision we are already living within Vaikuntha. It is free of head stuff, that vision is soft and simple, much different than the head stuff.

 

*************

 

As marginal souls presently, we can see two worlds:

 

 

Vrajanatha: What is the tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)?

 

Babaji: It is the nature that enables one to be situated between both worlds, and to see both sides. Tatastha-svabhava is the eligibility to come under the control of either of the saktis. Sometimes the shore is submerged in the river because of erosion, and then again it becomes one with the land because the river changes its course. If the jiva looks in the direction of Krsna – that is, towards the spiritual world – he is influenced by Krsna sakti. He then enters the spiritual world, and serves Bhagavan in his pure, conscious, spiritual form. However, if he looks towards maya, he becomes opposed to Krsna and is incarcerated by maya. This dual-faceted nature is called the tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)...

http://www.bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/15.html

 

We are in contact with mind and other material elements. So we will observe all these polarities...head, heart etc. All these opposing elements can be purified by application. Rather than wrestling and renunciation...the devotee is free because he is fully integrated. Rather than disintegrated and fragmented.

 

 

 

http://www.causelessmercy.com/SB4.24.2.htm#35

 

TEXT 34

namaḥ paṅkaja-nābhāya

bhūta-sūkṣmendriyātmane

vāsudevāya śāntāya

kūṭa-sthāya sva-rociṣe

 

 

SYNONYMS

namaḥ—all obeisances unto You; paṅkaja-nābhāya—unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, from whose navel the lotus flower emanates; bhūta-sūkṣma—the sense objects; indriya—the senses; ātmane—the origin; vāsudevāya—unto Lord Vāsudeva; śāntāya—always peaceful; kūṭa-sthāya—without being changed; sva-rociṣe—unto the supreme illumination.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

My Lord, You are the origin of the creation by virtue of the lotus flower which sprouts from Your navel. You are the supreme controller of the senses and the sense objects, and You are also the all-pervading Vāsudeva. You are most peaceful, and because of Your self-illuminated existence, You are not disturbed by the six kinds of transformations.

 

 

PURPORT

The Lord as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu lies in the ocean of Garbha within this universe, and from His navel the lotus flower sprouts. Lord Brahmā is generated from that lotus flower, and from Lord Brahmā the creation of this material world begins. As such, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, is the origin of the material senses and sense objects. Since Lord Śiva considers himself to be one of the products of the material world, his senses are under the control of the supreme creator. The Supreme Lord is also known as Hṛṣīkeśa, master of the senses, which indicates that our senses and sense objects are formed by the Supreme Lord. As such, He can control our senses and out of His mercy engage them in the service of the master of the senses. In the conditioned state, the living entity struggles in this material world and engages his senses for material satisfaction. However, if the living entity is graced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he can engage these very senses in the service of the Lord. Lord Śiva desires not to be misled by the material senses but to engage always in the service of the Lord without being subject to contamination by materialistic influences. By the grace and help of Lord Vāsudeva, who is all-pervading, one can engage his senses in devotional service without deviation, just as the Lord acts without deviation.

The words śāntāya kūṭa-sthāya sva-rociṣe are very significant. Although the Lord is within this material world, He is not disturbed by the waves of material existence. However, conditioned souls are agitated by six kinds of transformations; namely, they become agitated when they are hungry, when they are thirsty, when they are aggrieved, when they are illusioned, when they grow old and when they are on the deathbed. Although conditioned souls become very easily illusioned by these conditions in the material world, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as the Supersoul, Vāsudeva, is never agitated by these transformations. Therefore it is said here (kūṭa-sthāya) that He is always peaceful and devoid of agitation because of His prowess, which is described herein as sva-rociṣe, indicating that He is illuminated by His own transcendental position. In other words, the individual soul, although within the illumination of the Supreme, sometimes falls down from that illumination because of his tiny position, and when he falls down he enters into material, conditional life. The Lord, however, is not subject to such conditioning; therefore He is described as self-illuminated. Consequently any conditioned soul within this material universe can remain completely perfect when he is under the protection of Vāsudeva, or when he is engaged in devotional service.

 

TEXT 35

saṅkarṣaṇāya sūkṣmāya

durantāyāntakāya ca

namo viśva-prabodhāya

pradyumnāyāntar-ātmane

 

 

SYNONYMS

saṅkarṣaṇāya—unto the master of integration; sūkṣmāya—unto the subtle unmanifested material ingredients; durantāya—unto the unsurpassable; antakāya—unto the master of disintegration; ca—also; namaḥ—obeisances; viśva-prabodhāya—unto the master of the development of the universe; pradyumnāya—unto Lord Pradyumna; antaḥ-ātmane—unto the Supersoul in everyone’s heart.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

My dear Lord, You are the origin of the subtle material ingredients, the master of all integration as well as the master of all disintegration, the predominating Deity named Saṅkarṣaṇa, and the master of all intelligence, known as the predominating Deity Pradyumna. Therefore, I offer my respectful obeisances unto You.

 

 

PURPORT

The whole universe is maintained by the integrating power of the Supreme Lord, who is known in that capacity by the name Saṅkarṣaṇa. The material scientists may have discovered the law of gravity, which maintains the integration of objects within the material energy, yet the master of all integration can create devastation by the disintegrating blazing fire emanating from His mouth. A description of this can be found in the Eleventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, wherein the universal form of the Lord is described. The master of integration is also the destroyer of this world by virtue of His disintegrating energy. Saṅkarṣaṇa is the master of integration and disintegration, whereas Pradyumna, another feature of Lord Vāsudeva, is responsible for universal growth and maintenance. The word sūkṣmāya is significant because within this gross material body there are subtle material bodies—namely mind, intelligence and ego. The Lord in His different features (Vāsudeva, Aniruddha, Pradyumna and Saṅkarṣaṇa) maintains both the gross and subtle material elements of this world. As mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā, the gross material elements are earth, water, fire, air and ether, and the subtle material elements are mind, intelligence and ego. All of them are controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha, and this will be further explained in the following verse.

 

[Sonic Yogi]

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy.

 

I found that to actually be realistic.

 

Try it sometime.

 

You might just like it.

[Lotusflower]

what probs do you have thiest? Birth, death, old age (hahaha), disease, thats it. Stop trying make probs !

[theist]

 

...The surrendered souls are called akuto-bhaya. They are doubtless and fearless, and their entrance into the spiritual kingdom is guaranteed....

 

The devotee sees the Supreme Personality in all things. The devotee is very simple in that his realization is 'Krsna is everything, Krsna is my master, all things are for Krsna's pleasure'.

 

The divine realization is devotional service...and the guru teaches the disciple to see Sri GaurangaKrsna everywhere.

 

With this vision the devotee becomes fearless in full self surrender. That is devotional knowledge, that any person can understand. That is also perfect renunciation.

 

Infact Theist, according to Srila Prabhupada, with that type of vision we are already living within Vaikuntha. It is free of head stuff, that vision is soft and simple, much different than the head stuff.

 

*************

 

As marginal souls presently, we can see two worlds:

 

 

 

We are in contact with mind and other material elements. So we will observe all these polarities...head, heart etc. All these opposing elements can be purified by application. Rather than wrestling and renunciation...the devotee is free because he is fully integrated. Rather than disintegrated and fragmented.

 

 

Very very nice bija.

[jeffster]

Hello Theist,

I find that humor helps me. When someone gets me to laugh or I get them to laugh, it seems to help all concerned, and lightens the load a bit.

 

Also, from your photo in post # 1, it appears that either your head must be too large or your body is too small. I would recommend either a very good diet of whole foods, best if offered, or conversely, try putting your head in a toaster oven for two hours.

 

Driving a sports car fast through heavy traffic can be lots of fun at times, but there is little margin for error in such endeavour. However, it is GUARANTEED to get you off the mental plane.

 

But seriously, the best thing any of us can do to get free of the mental platform is to join a kirtan and just let go. I am facing many of the same issues as you are, and I do not feel prepared at all to die a truly noble death. But Krishna sees our heart, and He will make whatever arrangement is necessary for us to make further progress.

 

Jeffster/AMd

[Beggar]

 

Hello Theist,

 

 

Driving a sports car fast through heavy traffic can be lots of fun at times, but there is little margin for error in such endeavour. However, it is GUARANTEED to get you off the mental plane.

 

But seriously...

 

Jeffster/AMd

 

You know you're gonna drive me to thinkin if you keep on drivin that hot rod Lincoln.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

good ideas sanatan. I'm 57 yrs. in the body now and am in a rut. I don't want to die so out of balance. Devotional service to Krishna means a change of heart.

 

Sports car idea is attractive only I don't drive. I love to drive but I hate traffic. I would have to clear the world of other cars first.

 

Hare Krsna Theist

 

Very uncharacteristic of you to show a vunerable side, maybe I just paid attention this time, LOL. Interesting!

 

I always said in a sarcastic way against myself as lower that straw in the street, that if Krsna was a Ferrari I would be back to Godhead in a milisecond!!! LOL, how pathetic of me!

 

When I find myself a little 'tight' I love to take my Taurus SHO 5sp out on the road and thrash the sh*t out of it. Every corner is a gift, every stop light is another opportunity to excelarate from 0-60 in 5.9 sec. A freeway on ramp means I can tach out 3rd gear to 95, then on to an easy 120 before shutting it down back to 80. I've had this car up to 150ish I think! Beyond the speedo's capibility after the indicated 140 limit.

 

I do all my own work. I get parts from ebay and the junk yard, remember it is just a Taurus. I bought this car for $500 and had to teach myself to repair it.(I'm poor) In the 4yrs of ownership I've remove every major system from bumper to bumper.

 

But what I see in it, is that Krsna gave me was engagement and satisfaction of material desires. It is NOT a Ferrari, but hells bell I'm satisfied!

 

I can go out to my car and satisfied a small material itch easily and chant the names of Krsna and Rama at the same time. I have done this all my life and from day one in the movement and concider it additional therapy for a conditioned soul.

 

I'm also an expert motorcycle rider and used to run the Rock Store in S. Cal all the time on my hyped up Suzuki 1000S. Now that THING would top out at over 165+ on the desert highways in Palmdale before all the constuction choaked the road down in traffic.

 

How would I do on a farm? Love horses to death! Ride like the wind. Not to bad in a barrow race either, LOL. But a little old and out of shape for that, LOL.

 

The end is near dude, chant and be happy in what life Krsna has given. All the other stuff is just stuff! DVD, this Guru, that Guru, ritvik schimtvic, GBC, NM, Guadiya nuts and IS-A-CON. It is all worthless in the end. There is just you and Radha and Krsna.

 

What will be There pleasures? F%$* the rest!

 

Hare Krsna

 

RCB

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Hello Theist,

I find that humor helps me. When someone gets me to laugh or I get them to laugh, it seems to help all concerned, and lightens the load a bit.

 

Also, from your photo in post # 1, it appears that either your head must be too large or your body is too small. I would recommend either a very good diet of whole foods, best if offered, or conversely, try putting your head in a toaster oven for two hours.

 

Driving a sports car fast through heavy traffic can be lots of fun at times, but there is little margin for error in such endeavour. However, it is GUARANTEED to get you off the mental plane.

 

But seriously, the best thing any of us can do to get free of the mental platform is to join a kirtan and just let go. I am facing many of the same issues as you are, and I do not feel prepared at all to die a truly noble death. But Krishna sees our heart, and He will make whatever arrangement is necessary for us to make further progress.

 

Jeffster/AMd

 

Hare Krsna Jeffster

 

You live in one of the most exciting ROAD areas I've ever lived in. The ride from SC to San Jose is just a thill! I used to live in SC and go to computer school in Santa Clara. Went over the hill daily in an MGB-GT. Then got even poorer and downgraded to a VW Super Bettle. Broke the welds at the roof and door pillar driving hard on 17 on my way to the San Jose temple. Or for the REAL expert there is 9 through Felton, Ben Lomand, then Boulder Creek. A lot of 'tail out' corrners there, LOL.

 

RCB

[Beggar]

[Beggar]

 

There is just you and Radha and Krsna.

 

 

Hare Krsna

 

Without guru, taking the name of Radha and Krsna, Hare Krsna, will just be aparadha.

[Sonic Yogi]

Have you ever thought about bungee jumping as a release?

 

 

 

Just let 'er all hang out.

[theist]

Let's approach it this way. What is meant by the saying, ' religion without philosophy is just sentiment and philosophy without religion is mental speculation.'

 

What does 'religion' mean in this context?

[Sonic Yogi]

 

Let's approach it this way. What is meant by the saying, ' religion without philosophy is just sentiment and philosophy without religion is mental speculation.'

 

What does 'religion' mean in this context?

 

Worship of God.

[andy108]

 

Let's approach it this way. What is meant by the saying, ' religion without philosophy is just sentiment and philosophy without religion is mental speculation.'

 

What does 'religion' mean in this context?

 

Parroting or repeating ritually (religiously) words of power or prayers or any other activities meant to worship God.

 

If done with proper philisophical understanding, they have meaning and are Further purifying to the performer and also beneficial to others/observers/neophytes.

 

If done without philosophical underpinning, they create shadow Iskcon in all it's Gory.

 

Unless one is as brahminically qualilfied and potent as Srila Prabhupada, one needs a community of others more or less as quailified to practice religious activity with in order to move from Jnana Misra Bhatki to Bhakti proper.

 

I would venture a guess that we Cyber brahmanas are becoming philisophically prepared to engage in such meaningful religious activity with one another. The computer is good for Hearing and Chanting with one another, but as Theist points out, grounding it out is another thing.

 

Some might call this next stage DVD proper. Action in Krsna Consciousness for the Advanced Neophyte coming to the true Madhyama Platform, under the guidance of the Uttama Spiritual Master's instructions.

 

Could be fun.

[theist]

Yes but worship of God must be further explained. For instance one can appear to be worshiping God by waving incense in front of a picture of Krishna. Is that worship of God?

 

Or is worship of God the heartfelt offering of the incense characterized by the circling of the sticks before a picture of Krishna?

 

IOW do I include love in what I do? Do I distribute Bhagavad-gita's and prasadam to people because I love them as fellow spiritsouls and desire their spiritual welfare or do I just do it in a perfunctury, dry sort of way?

 

We should be relentless in our introspection. "Stalk the mind" as Castenada said. otherwise we may fall victim to thinking "I am a Vaisnava. I have been a Vaisnava for 30 years now, I now know so many books etc."

 

We must bring the heart into it.

[theist]

 

Parroting or repeating ritually (religiously) words of power or prayers or any other activities meant to worship God.

 

If done with proper philisophical understanding, they have meaning and are Further purifying to the performer and also beneficial to others/observers/neophytes.

 

If done without philosophical underpinning, they create shadow Iskcon in all it's Gory.

 

 

 

Yes this is the puryifying stage but what is the result of being purified? Do we not then become motivated to engage in life by love of God and others?

 

 

At some point we have to surrender to this love. Allow ourselves to be cent per cent controlled by it. We must die to our lower motivations to live to our higher motivation.

 

 

 

I am convinced that not only is fear of death an ever present dread in the back of everyone's mind but also the fear of love. In fact the fear of loving seems to me to be a force behind the fear of death (along with the fact we are eternal by nature).

[andy108]

 

Yes this is the puryifying stage but what is the result of being purified? Do we not then become motivated to engage in life by love of God and others?

 

 

At some point we have to surrender to this love. Allow ourselves to be cent per cent controlled by it. We must die to our lower motivations to live to our higher motivation.

 

 

 

I am convinced that not only is fear of death an ever present dread in the back of everyone's mind but also the fear of love. In fact the fear of loving seems to me to be a force behind the fear of death (along with the fact we are eternal by nature).

 

My point is I feel there are subtly 2 proper approaches.

 

One is to follow the rituals religiously and try to match that simultaneously with study of philosophy, and hope one doesn't become a fanatic in the mean time.

 

The other is to make sure one never does any external activity, religiously, other than absorbing theroetical knowledge with the mind, and then acting grosser external religious ritual based on that.

 

The third possibility I leave out is complete ritual without any philosophy. That will drive someone to seek out philosophy the hard way, however.

 

If either of the first 2 are performed, ie. sadhana bhakti aka vaidhi bhakti aka hearing/chanting following regulative principles of varna and asrama, then eventually some taste and attachment to Krsna will manifest, along with some realized knowledge/understanding of how he is in others as supersoul, and in all things, and how to use ''things" for his and others benefit.

 

That is the only point at which a now advanced neophyte may meaningfully engage with others outside the temple/home and call it loving. All else is strictly material/worldly manipulation or survival of the fittest.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

 

If either of the first 2 are performed,ie. sadhana bhakti aka vaidhi bhakti aka hearing/chanting followingregulative principles of varna and asrama, then eventually some tasteand attachment to Krsna will manifest, along with some realizedknowledge/understanding of how he is in others as supersoul, and in allthings, and how to use ''things" for his and others benefit.

 

But is it so automatic? We have seen and perhaps experienced that the strictest adherents to the rituals of vaidhi bhakti even after decades haven't come to the platform you described.

 

Somewhere in the midst of it all we have to come to want to cross that barrior of I me mine and actually want to love.

[sanatan]

 

good ideas sanatan. I'm 57 yrs. in the body now and am in a rut. I don't want to die so out of balance. Devotional service to Krishna means a change of heart.

 

Thanks, brother Theist...hope it helped a bit.

 

60 for me this year, and I hear you.

 

 

Sports car idea is attractive only I don't drive. I love to drive but I hate traffic. I would have to clear the world of other cars first.

 

The idea of a non-driving lifestyle is a beautifully attractive one...a complete change of perspective. (bhaktatraveler: except for those blasts in my Ferrari. Material-desire fullfillment...Yes!!)

 

Seriously, Prabhupada ruined my material life, starting 40 years ago, and I haven't adjusted either.