Narasingh Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Let us not forget this axiom: vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate SB. 1.2.11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 it would be great if you can post some quotes amlesh...to open this discussion further from the vedic viewpoint. Thing is simple, on the heavenly planets people can take intoxicants as much as they like and they can go on enjoying till the end of life. On Earth things are totally different. Earth is meant to generate a new chapter of pious assets by performing tapasya, aquiring of knowledge, welfare activity, penance etc. Therefore people come from the heavenly planets to the earthly planet from begin with, their balance to enjoy on the heavenly planets is used up. In order to top up good karmas and to go back to the heavenly planets they again have to perform severe tapasya and pious activity on Earth. Unfortunately due force of habit those coming from the heavenly planets want to first of all go on enjoying like on the heavenly planets. Therefore all this drug consumption on Earth. But on Earth you cannot enjoy, it is only a poor copy, stereotype of heaven, in fact Earth is only meant to perform tapasya, to create new pious funds. Taking intoxicants on Earth causes degeneration, falling down to the lower planetary systems. Especially those who fall from the heavenly planets to Earth while here's kali-yuga going on shows clearly that they don't mind to degenerate even to the lower planets. Of course the best is to stop materialism altogether and go back to Vaikuntha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 it would be great if you can post some quotes amlesh...to open this discussion further from the vedic viewpoint. I'll do it but after some time.. right now.. office duties. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soma Juice Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Thanks for the softball questions. Ahankara cannot be overcome by drugs or herbs etc. It cannot be overcome even by speculative philosophy. It is overcome only by the grace of Krishna because only Krishna awards liberation. The shaman is identifying himself as a shaman which is ahakara in action. If he wasn't then he would be either as Brahman realized soul or a self realized devotee engaged in his sanatan dharma serving Krishna. I am through with this thread. No offense but I know you could go all night.and I don't want to. but you havent answered if the chanting of gods names in their tounge is not as good as when we chant og sing gods names. Can you denie that the poeple of the forest dont have contact to god just because they dont follow vedic tradition on the exact methods. why is calling themself a shaman for ahakara why is it anymore attechment to the ego than calling your self a baba or a hare krishna devotee? you are implying that the only true way to god is through the methods you find true and thats wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 There is no sin in eating meat, in drinking spirituous liquor, and in carnal intercourse, for that is the natural way of created beings, but abstention brings great rewards. --Manu Smriti 5.56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 wise words amlesh...there is no greater reward than natural samadhi. it is like the beauty of a lotus opening in the sun... (everything else is secondary). as you have suggested...love of god is that treasure. inherently natural to all souls.. and not the claim of any sole cultural mileu alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Soma here is something I read tonight that may interest you. It is from a book 'When the Impossible Happens by Stanislav Grof'. I would have to say he is one of the most interesting researches of non-ordinary states that I have read. A very nice person too. Earlier I suggested that soma was made from a seed Agreyia Nervosa. These paragraphs point to the same thing, Morning Glory which is of the same family. Thde intersting thing is these seeds are more potent when soaked in liquid and crushed.. Studying transpersonal psychology and spiritual emergence/crisis is of keen interest to me. At the age of 24 I experienced a huge kundalini awakening that is still ongoing now, 15 years later. Honestly the most profound way to smoothly experience that intense shakti, was taking shelter in bhakti yoga. Bhakti Devi is the most gentle of shakti.. The bhakti yoga is truly like a lotus opening in he full moon...cooling and soothing. In my earlier years the awakening was hot due to psychotropics...that is the difference I see. In the last few years I have experienced a complex synesthesia and other mystical states and found very little support for these encounters within the Gaudiya Tradition. Therefore I sought answers from Stanislav Grof. In my own encounter I have experienced non-ordinary states through drug free methods (in my later years) and as a youth through intoxication. As I have matured and had direct encounter with several phenomena, I can distinguish between the shamanic path and the vedic path. But realizing the differences there is a unique similarity in the encounters. Here is ttonights reading from Stanislav Grof book. Sorry for the typos I am typing it from my book on a mini-laptop;). "I understand you have been working with LSD" said Muktananda. "We do something very similar here. But the difference is that in siddha yoga we teach people not only to get high, but to stay high. With LSD you can have great experiences, but then you come down. There are many serious spiritual seekers in India, brahmans and yogis, who use sacred plants in their spiritual practice." He talked then about the need for a respectful ritual approach to cultivation, preparation, and smoking or ingesting indian hemp...and croticized the casual and irreverent use...by the young in the west. "The yogis grow and harvest the plant very consciously and with great devotiopn." ....In the course of the discussion, I asked Muktananda about soma...mentioned more than a thousand times in the rig veda and that clearly played a critical role in vedic religion. This sacrament was prepared from a plant of the same name, the identity which was lost over the centuries..... Talking about soma muktananda dismissed thje theory that this plant was amanita muscaria, the fly agaric mushroom. He assured me that soma was not a mushroom but a 'creeper'. This seemed to make sense and did not particularly surprise me becuase another important item in the psychdelic pharmacopeia, the famous mesoamerican ololiuqui was a preparation containing the seeds of morning glory (ipomoea violacea) which would qualify as a creeper plant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 ...But what came as a surprise to me is what followed. Muktananda not only knew what soma was, but he assured me that it was still being used in India to this very day. As a matter of fact, he claimed that he was in regular contact with vedic priests who were using it in their rituals. And according to baba some of these priests actually came every year down from the mountains to ganeshpuri, a little village south of bombay, to celebrate his birthday...baba extened his invitation to christina and me to visit his ashram at the time of his birthday and promised to make arrangements for us to participate in this ancient ritual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 ...But what came as a surprise to me is what followed. Muktananda not only knew what soma was, but he assured me that it was still being used in India to this very day. As a matter of fact, he claimed that he was in regular contact with vedic priests who were using it in their rituals. And according to baba some of these priests actually came every year down from the mountains to ganeshpuri, a little village south of bombay, to celebrate his birthday...baba extened his invitation to christina and me to visit his ashram at the time of his birthday and promised to make arrangements for us to participate in this ancient ritual... That is pretty far out! Lucky you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 lucky stanislav grof and christina.... I didnt go to the birthday paty:P. Was bound by the creeper of love:) bhakti devi. And not intelligent enouigh for deep jnana lol:smash:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 wise words amlesh...there is no greater reward than natural samadhi. it is like the beauty of a lotus opening in the sun... (everything else is secondary). as you have suggested...love of god is that treasure. inherently natural to all souls.. and not the claim of any sole cultural mileu alone. You are the rare few who goes beyond barriers but bounded by Hari's Love. That's why the intense meaning of the verses willingly comes to your lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soma Juice Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I got to get my self some Stanislav Grof' books man. Can you explain to me what kundalini awakening is like cause i really dont know hehe. I have experienced a complex synesthesia and other mystical states thats pretty intense while chanting hare krishna? and the morning glory seeds actualy seems like a pretty good suggestion on what plant it could have been from and i seems fantastic that the use might not have died out but strange no one have encountered some of the soma users they must be very secret about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 ... love of god is that treasure. inherently natural to all souls ... ... The bhakti yoga is truly like a lotus opening in he full moon...cooling and soothing. In my earlier years the awakening was hot due to psychotropics...that is the difference I see. Love of god feels cooling and soothing, or hot..? That sounds like two very different experiences.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narasingh Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Shri Krishna reveals everything to Arjuna from dharma, jnana, karma, virat, to bhakti. Arjuna's responses toward the war were symptomatic of a compassionate thoughtful person. Shri Krishna recognized this in Arjuna and chose to deliver him from his quandary. Arjuna witnessed the virat form of Shri Krishna and although it was a manifestation of Truth, it brought him to his knees and filled him with dread. He witnessed all sorts of creatures, including his loved ones, being nothing but insignificant, immersed in tumultuous chaos with no true control, being devoured by the Virat in a hurried manner. This aspect of Truth was difficult for Arjuna and he pleaded for Shri Krishna to show him the most fulfilling aspects of Truth. Shri Krishna obliged by showing His personal form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I got to get my self some Stanislav Grof' books man.Can you explain to me what kundalini awakening is like cause i really dont know hehe. Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> I have experienced a complex synesthesia and other mystical states </td> </tr> </tbody></table> thats pretty intense while chanting hare krishna? and the morning glory seeds actualy seems like a pretty good suggestion on what plant it could have been from and i seems fantastic that the use might not have died out but strange no one have encountered some of the soma users they must be very secret about it. Kundalini for me has very much to do with shakti. I feel and see the flow of energy within my body and surrounding it. And also see this flow around other bodies. Synchronicities, identifying with animals, intense emotions, insights etc. Six weeks ago I was doing japa outside, and slipped into trance. A trance which has nothing to do with the sadhana I am supposed to be practicing. A black bird flew into my yard and I became one with its energy...could see. I became a black bird and willed the mother bird to bring me its worms. The bird performed a dance on the fence and then flew and stood half a meter from my feet...holding the worms in its mouth looking at me. For two weeks everyday after that the bird came back every afternoon and would stand at the threshold of my door looking for me. These trances are very hard to explain. It is a very subtle state of consciousness that happens to me without any drugs. Dr. Grof and his wife Christina have written about these things. Christina experienced a very intense kundalini awakening and now specialises in spiritual emergence crisis. Without these two professionals I may have not had any avenue to understand these experiences. *************************************************** If the seed from this creeper is still in use Muktananda suggests, one does wonder why it went under ground. I guess ritual changes from age to age. The morning glory and hawiian baby woodrose once the ritual faded may not have really enetered mainstream recreational use. Tolerance is easily buillt up, so really a ritual every fortnight or more woould only work, and more than that it is very toxic to the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thompson Shamanism in the Rig Vedas <embed src="http://d.scribd.com/ScribdViewer.swf?document_id=7281394&access_key=key-13vz11ftnnpmsn75gfwo&page=1&version=1&viewMode=" quality="high" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" play="true" loop="true" scale="showall" wmode="opaque" devicefont="false" bgcolor="#ffffff" name="doc_710224584590534_object" menu="true" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" salign="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" align="middle" width="100%" height="500"> Publish at Scribd or explore others: Manuals Religion & Spiritual shaman Religion-Hinduism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soma Juice Posted January 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 wow really interesting stuff on the rig veda! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 i have seen some vids were people think the soma drink was made from a combination of opium, marjuana, and a plant called soom. with theese combinatian of plant especially marajuana and opium the sense become delluded. which is why i think this ritualistic drink disappered from todays vedic culture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken111 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 This is the truth of Soma: Soma is manifested in various plants, it is a quality that a plant can have, this is the connection to the divine. The first Soma was Phalaris Aquatica, it was the heavenly Soma, it is available for all, and it has now returned, thanks to the huge interest for dmt containing plants. The earthly Soma was Amanita Muscaria, and later other plants was found that was full of Soma. The Amanita was also Soma Christou (body of Christ), used by Jesus. Jesus was not the mushroom, but was one with it. The blood of Christ was Acer Palmatum. Cannabis was also a Soma, together with myrrh, cinnamon, cassia and olive oil, in the form of the holy anointing oil. The holy anointing oil was also used with Acer Palmatum instead of Cannabis, and it is called the fire baptism. Jesus made water into wine, by adding his own blood to it, he was not crucified on a cross, but on a tree. For those interested in trying Phalaris Aquatica, do not make extracts, do not use mao-inhibitor, it is powerful enough as it is, 20 phalaris tops is enough. It is probably the most holy thing that grows on earth, and use of this grass should be considered a sacrifice for god. And read in the Rig Veda under the influence, and you will soon realize the thruth of the Phalaris. Keep your body pure, stay away from meat, and also cow's milk, as heavenly law prohibits it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Jesus was not the mushroom, but was one with it. AUM... may the force of the bhang be with you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soma Juice Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 This is the truth of Soma: Soma is manifested in various plants, it is a quality that a plant can have, this is the connection to the divine. The first Soma was Phalaris Aquatica, it was the heavenly Soma, it is available for all, and it has now returned, thanks to the huge interest for dmt containing plants. The earthly Soma was Amanita Muscaria, and later other plants was found that was full of Soma. The Amanita was also Soma Christou (body of Christ), used by Jesus. Jesus was not the mushroom, but was one with it. The blood of Christ was Acer Palmatum. Cannabis was also a Soma, together with myrrh, cinnamon, cassia and olive oil, in the form of the holy anointing oil. The holy anointing oil was also used with Acer Palmatum instead of Cannabis, and it is called the fire baptism. Jesus made water into wine, by adding his own blood to it, he was not crucified on a cross, but on a tree. For those interested in trying Phalaris Aquatica, do not make extracts, do not use mao-inhibitor, it is powerful enough as it is, 20 phalaris tops is enough. It is probably the most holy thing that grows on earth, and use of this grass should be considered a sacrifice for god. And read in the Rig Veda under the influence, and you will soon realize the thruth of the Phalaris. Keep your body pure, stay away from meat, and also cow's milk, as heavenly law prohibits it. No soma was not a quality of plants it was a plant.. what is the earthly and the heavenly soma? There is only soma. Have you tried phalaris tops? everyone knows that dmt needs a mao-inhibitor to be active? and Soma Christou....... lol god damn stoner:smash: you seriously need to care about evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken111 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 No soma was not a quality of plants it was a plant.. what is the earthly and the heavenly soma? There is only soma. Have you tried phalaris tops? everyone knows that dmt needs a mao-inhibitor to be active? and Soma Christou....... lol god damn stoner:smash: you seriously need to care about evidence. rig veda 10.97, 6-7 can point to Soma being a quality: --He who hath store of Herbs at hand like Kings amid a crowd of men,— Physician is that sage's name, fiend-slayer, chaser of disease. Herbs rich in Soma, rich in steeds, in nourishments, in strengthening power,— All these have I provided here, that this man may be whole again.-- earthly soma was used on earth, and heavenly soma was used by the devas, different plants, same divine energy, Soma. I have used Phalaris the last three summers, so I can say for sure that you don't need a mao-inhibitor, it's a short but good experience, good for meditation. If you want a long trip, you can use a mao-i, but it's very strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soma Juice Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 The earthly soma must be the soma found on earth and heavnly soma is what the gods drink so it must be found on other planes as you also point out. But why should the heavnly soma be phalaris tops it cant be a earthly plant? But is this plant not a very common plant in the western world i think regonize it! if so it could be awesome! especially if it has the potency you mention. But that soma should be a quality and not a specific drink is very unlikely i think. Because the concrete pressing of the soma stalks is mentioned through out the Rgveda so if the soma plants was made from pressed stalks of a plant how can it be a quality. Ive read the whole hymn which you qoute and it praises the good qualites of herbs in general, so perhaps it is just a praise to nature because of all the usefull and holy plants it offers? Maybe the translation have lost some of the meaning? From the same hymn: 18 Of all the many Plants whose King is, Soma, Plants of hundred forms, Thou art the Plant most excellent, prompt to the wish, sweet to the heart. 19 O all ye various Herbs whose King is Soma, that o’erspread the earth, Urged onward by Bṛhaspati, combine your virtue in this Plant. why is it mentioned as a specific plant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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