Why Advait Is A Complete Hoax.

[bhaktajan 0]

"Sanatana Dharma is -the fact that -different things for different people at different stages of life and intellect."

 

OK. This is the propblem:

Sanatana Dharma is Eternal Duties.

 

Your definition pertains to the temporary & Changing duties alloted to the particular birth[ergo, body & Social position].

 

It is Sanatana Dharma to serve Krishna is the Kingdom of Heaven, ergo, it is Sanatana Dharma to train up in Bhakti-yoga and thus pursue Krishna-prema.

 

All other Dharma is temporary and changing according to time and circumstance.

 

Again, your definition & use & application of the sanskrit term "Sanatana Dharma" is inncorrect.

 

Is the Void eternal?

Is emptiness changing or is it eternal and unchanging?

 

So similarly Sanatana Dharma is eternal THEREFORE, it is called "ABSOLUTE".

 

God's birthright is his ABSOLUTE status as the pinnicle of being himself God--this is called the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

 

The ABSOLUTE TRUTH is a person. The person who is the he ABSOLUTE TRUTH is the same goal we have in a perverted fashion here in the material world--all this must be reconciled during human birth(s) so that being a "person" resounds within the soul at the moment of death.

[bhaktajan 0]

"Brahman is not Void. Brahman is the only thing that is."

 

Just see how a statement is made--yet "Nothing" is defined accept the inference that the speaker should be trusted.

 

This is how svenghali/cult leaders are born.

 

God speed. May I get a discount when staying at your ashram?

[kaisersose 0]

Ah...The blind attempting to lead the blind.

 

 

But Advaita is truth!

 

And yet, it is a complete hoax. Not a partial hoax, but a complete one.

 

 

But Advaita's Final Goal [merging into Brahman, aka the void, aka the omniopresent/omnioscient bodily effulgence emminating from the Supreme Personailty of Godhead's Body, aka Nirvana, aka merging into the Causal Ocean] is temporary --because the "Soul" [jiva-atma] is always "Active" by constitution.

 

"Merging into Brahman" is incorrect

"emminating from the Supreme Personailty of Godhead's Body" is incorrect

 

It follows, the entire statement is incorrect.

 

 

The element of a "Hoax" is the factor of permanance that is not attainable in Brahma-nirvana.

 

Incorrect again. Brahma-Nirvana is permanent, the highest and irreversible. Here it is, straight from the horse's mouth. The exact words "Brahma Nirvana" appear in the Gita (multiple times) if you want to check.

 

O Partha, this is the state of being established in Brahman. One does not become deluded after attaining this. One attains Nirvana in Brahman by being established in this state even in the closing years of one's life - Gita 2.72

 

 

Not, from void back to void.

 

Incorrect again. There is no such thing as "void to void".

 

In short, too many mistakes in one post. Of course, all is forgiven and taken back, if a *single* quote by Shankara can be provided in support of these allegations; that is evidence to show he says one or more of the following

 

"merging into Brahman"

"effulgence from supreme personality of godhead"

"temporary Brahma-Nirvana"

"void to void"

 

Else, the dismissal will stand and you will ( I trust) either stop posting material on Advaita forever or else pick up a book written by Shankara and read it before posting on Advaita again. Either option will prevent future blunders from your side, which is good for you.

 

Cheers

[bhaktajan 0]

Attention!

Attention!

 

We have found "everythingness"--and it is not a void.

 

Please "prepare to elongate the gap between thoughts and reside in that gap".

 

PS: Depak Chopra did say something that stuck with me, that I personally think is worth stating:

 

"We fear that which we 'know' -- we cannot fear what we do not know".

 

The unknown is without threats. The Known dangers are always anticipated and guarded against.

 

Rudra01 fears the known Absolute Truth.

 

Rudra01 might also desire something greatly and when he doesn't obtain it he may become bewildered --all due to lust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

""

[theist 1]

 

I question your understanding of Advaita. Brahman is not Void. Brahman is the only thing that is.

Krishna is all that is and that includes the impersonal Brahman effulgence or His aura.

 

You have chosen the path of impersonalism and we have chosen the path of personalism.

 

We say our path is superior and you say your's is superior. No amount of debate will solve the issue for the Lord in the heart grants the desires of the heart. If you want to hear impersonalism that is what you will hear.

 

One thing though the act of trying to convince others for a vaisnava is no contradiction however for an impersonalist to preach to others is a glaring contradiction because they preach there is only one being. So who are the impersonalists talking to? There are no others right? LOL

 

Better the impersonalist practice what they preach and just remain silent. JUst go sit in a lonely cave and enjoy your lonely liberation of 'I Am all that be'.

 

This conversation only highlights the uselessness of such debates and is filled with far far to many words for me. I am a simple person and to maintain that simplicity I must finnally exit this thread.

 

To my impersonalist brothers/sisters I wish you well. May Lord Caitanya's blessing fall upon you in the same way it did for the mayavad sannyasi's of Benares. To read this pastime of Lord Caitanya click here and go to http://www.prabhupadabooks.com then to CC Adi-lila 7.49 and start there.

 

Hare Krishna

[bhaktajan 0]

VOID MEANS WITHOUT PERSONALITY.

 

IMPERSONALITY MEANS THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS AN ILLUSION.

 

......................................................................................................

Kaiserose: "Brahma-Nirvana is permanent, the highest and irrerversible"

--if so then "Advaita-Salvation" is true [but temporary] which you had claimed was your opinion in postings prasing Rajeetmore [post #46].

 

Kaiserose: There is no such thing as "void to void".

--[That was my point!] but that is the very promise of Advaitists. The soul is returning to its source when it relinquishes re-birth/ego/samsara. The Summon Bonum of Advaitists is the soul returns to the Void whence all conscoious souls first purportedly originated.

 

[bTW, Please get it straight--I, bhaktajan, am an ISKCON HARE KRISHNA. I am not a voidist! We follow the conclusions of Vyasadeva and the Vedas]

 

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Ready for my chasticement, Kaiserose?

 

1) [that was my point] Count how many times you used the word:

"incorrect"

That indicates you are a fault finder without any other motivation.

I have read all of Sripada Shakaracarya's writtings. I understand Advaita perfectly.

 

The standard is set by Arjuna. Perfect questions permits you to recieve perfect answers.

 

2) "Obfiscation" If you know something, Say something!

Winning a debate by putting forth no information is illusion.

Winning a debate by maticulously finding faults in postings --without putting forth Truthfully Absolute information is illusion. --Doubly deluted crazy-making while the world is at war will gain you dividends that no one will care to share with you. But you will at least still be able to make bargains with the right entities.

[kaisersose 0]

 

Ready for my chasticement?

 

Count how many times you used the word:

"incorrect"

That indicates you are a fault finder without any other motivation.

 

That indicates you have been blabbering on about something you know nothing about. The usage of "merging" and "bodily effulgence" is a complete giveaway. Hard to stay silent when I see such nonsense being posted.

 

 

I have read all of Sripada Shakaracarya's writtings. I understand Advaita perfectly.

 

Wrong. If that were true, you would not have used the word "merging" and "bodily effulgence" or said Brahma Nirvana is temporary. Honesty has become a rare commodity here...

 

 

The standard is set by Arjuna. Perfect questions permits you to recieve perfect answers.

 

Perfect answers by people who know what they are talking about. Certainly not by high school drop-out Hare Krishnas who think they know everything about Advaita without reading a single line of the doctrine. Right?

 

Oh...And I still see no quote by Shankara in support of your previous allegations. So the dismissal stands.

 

Cheers

[bhaktajan 0]

 

That indicates you have been blabbering on about something you know nothing about. The usage of "merging" and "bodily effulgence" is a complete giveaway. Hard to stay silent when I see such nonsense being posted.

 

Ok state the Absolutely correct academic Understanding/Reference Verses/Axioms ANYTHING other that obfiscating the obvious use of a rebuttal without enlightening me with words of the masters of yore.

 

Wrong. If that were true, you would not have used the word "merging" and "bodily effulgence" or said Brahma Nirvana is temporary. Honesty has become a rare commodity here...

 

But Sharkara's philosophy was hiding the actual truths that I am putting right for you edification.

 

Perfect answers by people who know what they are talking about. Certainly not by high school drop-out Hare Krishnas who think they know everything about Advaita without reading a single line of the doctrine. Right?

 

Without perfect questions, Without perfect questions,Without perfect questions ---DO NOT WASTE MY TIME.

 

Oh...And I still see no quote by Shankara in support of your previous allegations. So the dismissal stands.

 

no quote by Shankara? no quote by Shankara? no quote by Shankara?--THAT YOUR JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT YOUR JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You serve my arse--No Wait!

First show you're worthy of serving! Oh Yeah, I will judge for myself!

 

[sambya 0]

i still find no vaishnav genorous enough to answer my questions one by one.wouldnt ranjeet ,the original thread starter show me the way to enlightment.

 

and bhaktajan,im afraid to say that i have been noticing in the last few months that you write a lot without any proper logic ,reasoning or scriptural quotation.why didnt you directly deal with my questions instead?

 

deal with those questions one by one and i challenge that either you would end up realizing your mistake and shallow fund of knowledge or establish gaudiya vaishnavism(isckon) to be the most fundamentalist ,orthodox institution with medeival era thinking with an absolute lack of intellectuality among its members.

 

deal with those questions PLEASE.

[bhaktajan 0]

Krose: I do not know what your satnce is! It is your opinion that Advaita is a Hoax, correct?

 

Then why do you lose control when I agree. [if that is what you think I am saying. --TBD]

 

Bhaktajan: By "Hoax" [inre: to the Thread Title] we refer to a 'permanance' that is not attainable in Brahma-nirvana.

Kaiserose: Incorrect again. Brahma-Nirvana is permanent, the highest and irreversible. Here it is, straight from the horse's mouth.

 

Bhaktajan: We Brahma-Nirvana is translated by My Swami-ji as place descibed as Brahma without the qualities of a jungle/varigated place beyond passing enjoyments; aka, the Kingdom of heaven:

 

 

 

 

Bhagavad-gita Chapter 2 Verse 72:

 

 

 

ñä brähmé sthitiù pärtha

 

nainäà präpya vimuhyati

sthitväsyäm anta-käle ’pi

brahma-nirväëam åcchati

SYNONYMS

eñä—this; brähmé—spiritual; sthitiù—situation; pärtha—O son of Påthä; na—never; enäm—this; präpya—achieving; vimuhyati—one is bewildered; sthitvä—being situated; asyäm—in this; anta-käle—at the end of life; api—also; brahma-nirväëam—the spiritual kingdom:P of <st1>:PGod; åcchati—one attains.</st1>

TRANSLATION

 

 

"That is the way of the spiritual and godly life, after attaining which a man is not bewildered. If one is thus situated even at the hour of death, one can enter into the <st1:place w:st="<ST1<ST1<img" src="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/images/smilies/tongue.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Stick Out Tongue" smilieid="5" class="inlineimg">kingdom of <st1>:PGod</st1></st1:place>."</st1:place>

 

Yes, all my Swamis are theists. Not athiests. That is their progrative and their own exercise of free-will which will be defended for freedoms sake irregardless of falldowns.

Our free-will is sponsored by all the Devas and Mahavishnu and Paramatma and Durga and Maya And Kali's benevolence.

 

 

 

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

Bhaktajan: Not, from void back to void.

Kaiserose: Incorrect again. There is no such thing as "void to void". --[but we agree here! ].

[sambya 0]

o noble bhaktajan pay attention to me.trust me im fallen and in a greater need of attention than kaiserose.wouldnt you help me out of these doubts by your unending intellect and direct nirvikalpa experience ??!!!

[bhaktajan 0]

moderator's note: post deleted

[sambya 0]

ha ha ha !! thats better.your post clearly shows you are angry or irritated. now do you know when a man is irritated?its when he loses the game.or when he is not paid enough attention.and how does it matter whether i be a man or a woman or a transexual? u being the complete(and enlightened of course) man should take up any challenge whichever source it comes from,isnt it?.its your duty as a MAN !!!!

anyways a thousand thanks for prooving my point well that you have no logical answers to those questions.

please dont be offended because of me asking you a personal question but im curious to know your nationality.are you a westerner??in case you are it makes sense of your style of arguments.its just identicall to the ways of christian missionaries and other adherents of abrahmnic religions.

 

thousand dandavats

[sambya 0]

ranjeet can you pull me out of this grave trouble by answering those questions.i hate seeing anybody(IN THIS CASE GAUDIYA VAISHNAVISM) get defeated without a chance. PLEASE ???!!

[bhaktajan 0]

Sambya: i shall recapitulate and summarise my questions....

1: so does the omnipresent absolute unaware of the fact that it is he who is being called,even if in a wrong manner(take that for arguments sake) ??CAN YOU CALL SO DUMB AN ENTITY GOD?OR IS IT THAT SOME VAISHNAVS BEING DUMB THEMSELVES ALSO VEIW GOD THEIR WAY !!!!!!!!!!

This question is full bad grammar, inverted, twisted and bent statements beyond recognition.

You are a spirit in the material world of duality and TIME.

Your sufferings are an illusion perpetuated by "False-Ego" [False-Ego is the first quality that the soul indentifies with —later the gross body develops and thus the ego gets re-inforced].

Free-will means you are free to attain the carrot or the stick on your own merit.

2: before saying that some particular path is true and rest false one should try out all those paths with equal sincerity and fail to reach the goal.did you try out any of those paths ever ??if not then what your logic behind proclaiming them false?DONT YOU THINK THIS IS AGAINST BASIC INTELLIGENCE(in sure you have some left).

Yes, I have suffered in birth after birth filled with brothers-in-arm who suffered with me.

My neighbors also suffered through all the paths I took too.

You are telling me that you tried homosexuality and judged it as . . . [don't tell me, that's your subjective opinion].

Basic intelligence fills Public Libraries and Presidential Election Campaigns —An educated customer may be good for the consumer, but bad for the free market.

Being street smart will prevent highway robbery by dope-fiends.

The False proclamations are your involvement—It is bad Karma to propagate falsehoods.

 

3: theist says that "WHY SHOULD ANYONE RESPECT A VIEWPOINT THEY CONSIDER WRONG. RESPECT ONLY THE TRUTH." in this matter you are assuming right at the beginning that truth is a complete monopoly of you people.this is against the very intrinsic nature of truth.truth is that which stands naked for everyone to see.if something is realized only by few that obviously cant be truth.

secondly,when you argue about the validity of any two points you have two assume both true or both wrong at the begining.but instead you people are starting your silly arguments with the assumption that advaita is wrong.

also according to your super-dumb theory you suggest everyone to disrespect and hate and devalue anything that's not true according to his perception.THIS WOULD SURELY MEAN THAT YOU SUPPORT HITLER'S THEORY TO TERMINATE ALL NON ARYANS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEIR CULTURE WAS NOT TRUE ACCORDING TO HITLER.some vaishnavs do have amazing intellect!!!!

The truth is absolute. Your wife may say that the other man in her bed is innocent of adultery—because this other man know not the absolute truth that the woman is already legally married.

Absolute indicates a truth that does not change amidst dreaming, delusion, confusion, or stumbling blocks.

"Absolute" is a non-negotiable fact-of-life. The term monopoly is a fact of life, in many many many respect; except for the un-respectful sociopath.

He naked truth is the drop-out rate of teenagers in school especially in the sophisticated "Big" cities of the world.

One persons path to prosperity is a mystery to another.

<"THIS WOULD SURELY MEAN THAT YOU SUPPORT HITLER'S THEORY TO TERMINATE ALL NON ARYANS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEIR CULTURE WAS NOT TRUE ACCORDING TO HITLER" —this surely shows that you are a insane creature with typing skills>

 

4: to quote theist he speaks of "DEFEATING IMPERSONALISM".when would someone want to defeat impersonalism? obviously when he is envious or scared or insecured of that.when does a nation attack(and defeat) others?

when they are eager to outshine that nation or conquer their riches.ITS A SHAME THAT SOME VAISHNAVS SUFFER FROM THAT SIMILAR COMPLEX.

It is not your station in life to concern your self with things beyond your allotted duties. You are obviously envious or scared or insecure so —keep your day job and do a good job and be satisfied.

 

5: none of the vaishnavs in this thread have read anything about brahman except what they have been brainwashed by their teachers.they keep on mistaking brahman and maya as an entity. brahman is one and absolute.there is no concept of 'second' in advaitic philosophy.and maya dosent exist either.advaitic maya is different from vishistadwaitic's maya.in former , maya never exists(out of ignorance we feel it to exist)whereas in latter maya continues to exist even after liberation.

SO MAYA NEVER VANISHES,ITS YOU WHO REALIZE THAT IT NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.IT'S THIS COMMON MISTAKE(LIKE THINKING ROPE FOR A SNAKE)THAT IS COINED THE NAME MAYA.

Certainly you are brain washed! How can you not be Brain Washed?

You speak of metaphysic [ie: Brahman, maya, advaitic philosophy, vishistadwaita philosophy] but you have knowledge that can only be known by Vyasa's writings.

I have Vyasa's writings. Maya indicates: 'Mine, and all of the stuff that constitutes & is similar to it are mine' and, 'Mercy' and, 'not this', etc etc etc.

 

6 : and what is this crap about bhakta paramahamsa and abhakta paramahamsa??paramahamsa is a stage of realization(highest perfectional stage.).HOW CAN A BHAKTA PARAMAHAMSA BE MORE ELEVATED THAN NON DEVOTEE PARAMHAMSA? THEN IT WOULD BE NO PARAMHAMSA AT ALL.HOW CAN TWO DIFFERENT STAGES OF REALIZATION BE GIVEN THE SAME NAME.?????? vaishnavs,test your IQ !!!!

Here's how: Politician is above the need to walk among the citizens —he may be escorted by guards too.

But the Emperor is above the local politicians.

A Paramahamsa may acquire any stratum & benefit of life desirable.

A Bhakta Paramahamsa is a servant of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>.

 

7 : ranjeet says something like "VEDA IS BRHM SWARUP" now thats a new bit of info for me.does these dodoheads mean to say that puarans and tantras are more authoritative and philosophical than vedas.

Yo yo yam yam.

 

8 : my learned friend ranjeet calls durga the servant of krishna.HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS ?????? as you guys lay so stress on puranas i'll help you understand things from markendaya puran.it is said...." VISHNU SARIR GRAHAN MAHAMEESHAN EVA CHA.." MEANING THAT DEVI IS RESPONSIBLE FOR GRANTING THEIR RESPECTIVE BODIES TO SHIVA(ESHAAN) AND VISHNU.also in another area it is said......."krishnena samstute devi sashadbhaktya sada ambike ......"MEANING KRISHNA ALWAYS WORSHIPS DEVI WITH DEEP BHAKTI.WHAT ABOUT THAT ????!!!!!

AND YOUR ILLUSTRIOUS JIVA GOSWAMI SAYS IN BHAGAVAT SANDARVA--"YAH KRISHNA SA IVA DURGA SYAT YAA DURGA KRISHNA EVA SAH " , MEANING THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DURGA AND <st1:place w:st="on">KRISHNA</st1:place>.

HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? Our Guru's tell us.

I feel sorry for you and will thus include my signature below at the end of this posting for you contemplation.

 

9 : 'scriptural authorities' like these vaishnavs always suggest to understand scriptures literally instead of doing it emotionally.thus according to them in "MAMEKAM SHARANAM VRAJA....." krishna is suggesting to join him and kick out all other upasyas from their lives(we still believe he wasnt a tyrant ,dont we?).but but but THE MOMENT IT COMES TO "AHAM BRAHMASMI" OR "TATWAMASI" THEY START THEIR BHAVA VADI EMOTIONAL TRANSLATIONS. WHY DO YOU COWARDS DO NOT TAKE THESE BASICS OF HINDUISM IN ITS LITERAL SENSE ?????????????

Is laughing out-loud un-controllably at you an instantaneous emotional revelation? If Yes, I thank you, Oh Ha-Ha-inducing One!

We are in-charge now. Get yourself up to <st1:place w:st="on">Kashmir</st1:place> if you expect any tourism next year.

 

10 : kaivalya is merely a sattwik experience according to one of my friends here.nirvana is but a fragment of "real brahmananda".HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS?? SINNCE HOW MANY GENERATIONS HAVE YOU BEEN EXPERIENCING KAIVALYA OR NIRVANA???? as for me i dont think i could attain that in the upcoming few births.

How do I Know? None of your concern, obviously. Next Question . . .

lastly few question to vaishnavs:::::

1 : why do you drink milk by depriving a young calf of its godsend nourishment and label it satwik food???isnt this cruellity??if unfertilised eggs are nonveg on account of being an animal's body secretions so is milk.if we would have really needed milk god would have send our mothers fully equipped to feed us all through our lives.

Breast milk just seems to be in-comparable—maybe its just me.

Oooh Now I see where you have been coming from all this time —petty flesh mongerer trying to find the metaphysics to meat eating as an emblem of righteousness.

 

2 ; inspite of calling cows your mother you make drums out of her and enjoy in merriment after her death in name of lord's seva.WHAT DIGUSTING TAMASIC SEVA IS THAT WHICH ADVOCATES PLAYING OF DEAD MOTHER'S SKIN AFTER HER DEATH IN NAME OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

None of your concern, obviously. Next Question . . . [just avoid the six reasons for capital punishment as enumerated in the Gita].

3 :If you are so faithfull to disciplic succesion why did gaudiya vaishnavas deviate from the original tilak markings of madhavacharya sampradaya??? IS IT ALSO SOME UNKNOWN METHOD OF SHOWING RESPECT WHICH YOUR ILLUSTRIOUS PRECURSORS HAVE DISCOVERED ???

None of your concern, obviously. Next Question . . . [just do your thing and your friends will dance with you —especially in dim lighting].

PS: no matter how much you argue with these dumb NON-vaishnavs they can never understand.

ONE NEEDS DEEP INTELLECTUALITY, EXTENSIVE <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">READING</st1:place></st1:City>,AND RATIONAL SENSE PAR EXCELLENCE TO COMPREHEND A MINIMUM OF ADVAITA [for example, We are not the Body we are spirit soul].

[Rudra01 0]

 

"Sanatana Dharma is -the fact that -different things for different people at different stages of life and intellect."

 

OK. This is the propblem:

Sanatana Dharma is Eternal Duties.

 

 

 

Sanatana means without beginning. That means infinite. That means you cannot put any labels or definitions to it. That means, logically it might mean different things to different people, based on their intellectual capabilities. If someone is convinced that dualism is all there is, then it's to his/her level of understanding. If someone understands that dualism is there to be transcended, then that too is to his/her understanding.

 

 

Your definition pertains to the temporary & Changing duties alloted to the particular birth[ergo, body & Social position].

 

It is Sanatana Dharma to serve Krishna is the Kingdom of Heaven, ergo, it is Sanatana Dharma to train up in Bhakti-yoga and thus pursue Krishna-prema.

 

 

Why does that eerily sound similar to "Kingdom of Jesus" to me?

Anyhow, why is not Karma Yoga or Jnana Yoga also in the same list? Didn't Sri Krishna refer to these as valid paths to salvation in the Bhagavad Gita?

 

 

All other Dharma is temporary and changing according to time and circumstance.

 

Again, your definition & use & application of the sanskrit term "Sanatana Dharma" is inncorrect.

 

Like I said, it is not up to you or me to ascribe a label and definition to it. It is Eternal, it is infinite (encompasses everything). The Dharma is properly adhered to by being impeccable in all Karma (be it Bhakti, Jnana, whatever).

 

 

Is the Void eternal?

Is emptiness changing or is it eternal and unchanging?

 

So similarly Sanatana Dharma is eternal THEREFORE, it is called "ABSOLUTE".

 

God's birthright is his ABSOLUTE status as the pinnicle of being himself God--this is called the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

 

The ABSOLUTE TRUTH is a person. The person who is the he ABSOLUTE TRUTH is the same goal we have in a perverted fashion here in the material world--all this must be reconciled during human birth(s) so that being a "person" resounds within the soul at the moment of death.

 

Again, you confuse Brahman for a void. It is your misunderstanding. The Brahman cannot be named, if it can be named it is not the real Brahman.

The Brahman is everything material and at the same time nothing material.

The Brahman has no beginning and no end.

The Brahman is everywhere but nowhere.

Brahman can only be experienced.

Brahman has no gender.

Brahman has no taste

Brahman has no color

Brahman has no smell

Brahman cannot be seen

Brahman cannot be physically felt

You can only experience Brahman. When you experience Brahman, everything else will become evident as having been Bhram.

 

What do you mean by God's birthright? With that statement you show that your God has a beginning. So whenceforth did this God come from?

 

This God is the saguna expression of Brahman.

[srikanthdk71 0]

 

What'S an avadhoot? ........

 

Dear Ranjeet, if you have a standpoint, please put it forward. All I have tried and explained is my standpoints. It may not be convincing to you. I have no regrets. I have atleast tried instead of coming to conclusions like you who say 'Advaita is a Hoax'. So be it. Anyway, all the best. Cheers.

 

If the last statement of mine has sentimentally hurt you, i am extremely sorry and I apologize for the same.

[sambya 0]

dear bhaktajan, thanks for atleast attempting my questions.but im really sorry to say that the explanations that you provided were insufficient and childlike.also iwould like to say that im not against krishna or vaishnavs ,but their pathetic habit of demeaning and hating others. but why this "none of your concern" thing ? and if it is not anyones concern ,other than gaudiya vaishnavas then so is advaita. it is at their risk and concern who preaches and practise it.why do you vaishnav have a deep concern to expose their mistakes?

 

and im a vegetarian and not supporting non vegetarianism through my posts as you suggest.

 

and you also say that "my guru says this".thats fine !!! so a buddhist guru says vedas are false,a tantric guru says krishna is subordinate to shakti,muslims say allah is the only god.christians say idol worship leads to hell and so forth.eventually they would all proove each other wrong.

apart from anything else do you realize you sound like colonial christian missionaries?

and lastly one more question to bhaktajan,when krishna says "mamekam saranam........." what does he mean by that according to your guru? does that mean that he orders everyone to surrender only to krishna leaving out everyone else ??

answer this and you will surely be elevated to the first position among global fundamentalist organisations.

[sambya 0]

im unaware of anything written about capital punishment in gita as claimed by bhktajan.or maybe i dont remember.can you please specify the texts so that i can give a reading of 'as it is' once more.

 

im worried about ranjeet.why isnt he responding? it would be really nice to see the thread starter back here at this point of time.

[Amlesh 1]

By Sambya...

im not against krishna or vaishnavs ,but their pathetic habit of demeaning and hating others.

 

sorry for coming so soon.. but that really caught my attention.

By that statement what you meant Bhayya.. is that Both Krishna and Vaishnavas have pathetic habit.....

OR only Vaishnavas and not their Lord have pathetic habit .....

AND PLEASE All Isckonites please remain far from commenting on this conversation between me and Sambhya.

I've heard much from Sambya and really it really interests me.

Answer me that much.

If Krishna is under your comment.. We'll have a nice conversation.

If by Vaishnavas you generalised or you meant only for Iskonites....We'll have a nice conversation.

If you meant not Krishna and you didnot generalise Vaishnavas but targeted Iskonites and other Sampradaya Fanatics then "You are right".

[Amlesh 1]

and please Iskcon bhayya log you can comment on this thread but outside my conversation with Sambhya.

[ranjeetmore 0]

for better understanding i shall recapitulate and summarise my questions....

 

1 : we are all gods little child.when a child calls his father pa' instead of papa does his father hit him? no,he loves him more for that !! so does the omnipresent absolute unaware of the fact that it is he who is being called,even if in a wrong manner(take that for arguments sake) ??CAN YOU CALL SO DUMB AN ENTITY GOD?OR IS IT THAT SOME VAISHNAVS BEING DUMB THEMSELVES ALSO VEIW GOD THEIR WAY !!!!!!!!!!

 

This analogy is tosh.Your saying Bhaktas(Child who calls papa) are like Mayavadis(who call pa).

But Bhaktas call Him papa,pa,pappu,dad,etc...

whereas mayavadis say: Eh,I'm as great as you are.I won't bow down to you.I don't need you to cross this mountain.I can do it on my own.

 

I'm not refuting the existence of Nirgun,Nirvishesh,niraakar Bhramn.I'm refuting the bogus Mayavad threory that you are bhramn.

 

 

2 : before saying that some particular path is true and rest false one should try out all those paths with equal sincerity and fail to reach the goal.did you try out any of those paths ever ??if not then what your logic behind proclaiming them false?DONT YOU THINK THIS IS AGAINST BASIC INTELLIGENCE(in sure you have some left).

 

Frankly,we are not allowed to read Mayavada at all.Whatever tears we shed in remembrance of the Lord...the sentiment...the respect...all vanishes once you read Mayavad.Only Prema Bhaktas can read Mayavad to smash it.

So instead of avenging my insult you have made here,I'd rather protect my bhakti creeper.

whatever argument i have presented are solely based on Sri kripaluji's teachings....Since my memory is hardly perfect,I can only reproduce so much.

For the full version,visit maharaj ji.

 

 

3 : theist says that "WHY SHOULD ANYONE RESPECT A VIEWPOINT THEY CONSIDER WRONG.RESPECT ONLY THE TRUTH." in this matter you are assuming right at the beginning that truth is a complete monopoly of you people.this is against the very intrinsic nature of truth.truth is that which stands naked for everyone to see.if something is realized only by few that obviously cant be truth.!!!!

 

That means if the donkey to human ratio is 50000000000000:1, The humans should accept whatever the donkey says as truth just becoz the donkeys outnumber them massively??

 

secondly,when you argue about the validity of any two points you have two assume both true or both wrong at the begining.but instead you people are starting your silly arguments with the assumption that advaita is wrong.

also according to your super-dumb theory you suggest everyone to disrespect and hate and devalue anything that's not true according to his perception.THIS WOULD SURELY MEAN THAT YOU SUPPORT HITLER'S THEORY TO TERMINATE ALL NON ARYANS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEIR CULTURE WAS NOT TRUE ACCORDING TO HITLER.some vaishnavs do have amazing intellect!!!!

This logic is tosh.

 

4 : to quote theist he speaks of "DEFEATING IMPERSONALISM".when would someone want to defeat impersonalism? obviously when he is envious or scared or insecured of that.when does a nation attack(and defeat) others?

when they are eager to outshine that nation or conquer their riches.ITS A SHAME THAT SOME VAISHNAVS SUFFER FROM THAT SIMILAR COMPLEX.

There can be another reason....If the friend of a deceased rich man sees the enstranged son of his deceased friend,he tries to convince his son that he is actually rich ! He Doesn't want the son of his friend to suffer in a shack when he has a palace waiting for him.

The friend of the son's rich father wants to remove the son's misery.

Vaishnavas want to remove the misery of Mayavadis...

"Bhukti-Mukti pishachani.."- Gauranga Mahaprabhu.

 

Veda Vyasa has used the word 'Kaikav' when he describes mukti and bhukti.'Kaikav' means an evil thing...He condemned mukti more than bhukti for mukti is spiritual suicide.

There is hardly a drop of nectar in Bhramananda compared to Krsnanand/Ramanand,etc.

 

 

5 : none of the vaishnavs in this thread have read anything about brahman except what they have been brainwashed by their teachers.they keep on mistaking brahman and maya as an entity. brahman is one and absolute.there is no concept of 'second' in advaitic philosophy.and maya dosent exist either.advaitic maya is different from vishistadwaitic's maya.in former , maya never exists(out of ignorance we feel it to exist)whereas in latter maya continues to exist even after liberation.

SO MAYA NEVER VANISHES,ITS YOU WHO REALIZE THAT IT NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.IT'S THIS COMMON MISTAKE(LIKE THINKING ROPE FOR A SNAKE)THAT IS COINED THE NAME MAYA.

Why should i believe you ?

I see a mahatma in bhava...I see his indescribable bliss.Then there is the bhram jnyani..He has to toil so much...for what? For putting a stop to the material miseries/dukha/taapa,etc.

The jeevatma does not want misery(correct) BUT he also wants ananda!

There is just cessation of all miseries in actual Bhramananda.

There is no experience of divine ecsatasy that so many rasiks have manifested through the ashta sattvik bhavas.

 

I'm selfish.Everyone is.I will obviously revere the Prema bhakta more.I want happiness that he has.

 

I will obviously accept his teachings than yours.

 

 

6 : and what is this crap about bhakta paramahamsa and abhakta paramahamsa??paramahamsa is a stage of realization(highest perfectional stage.).HOW CAN A BHAKTA PARAMAHAMSA BE MORE ELEVATED THAN NON DEVOTEE PARAMHAMSA? THEN IT WOULD BE NO PARAMHAMSA AT ALL.HOW CAN TWO DIFFERENT STAGES OF REALIZATION BE GIVEN THE SAME NAME.?????? vaishnavs,test your IQ !!!!

 

Oh thanks for telling me that paramhamsa this term cannot be used for two different levels of realisation.

but we take different meanings for the term Bhramn too.

 

So why should anyone accept your logic,which nonetheless springs from your outstanding I.Q. ?

 

 

7 : ranjeet says something like "VEDA IS BRHM SWARUP" now thats a new bit of info for me.does these dodoheads mean to say that puarans and tantras are more authoritative and philosophical than vedas.note that vedas also costitute the vedanta or upanishads.diregaurding upanishads would invalidate any school of hindu thought.

all the views or doctrines that originated in india and disreguarded the vedas have perished from this land in due time(most notable xample being buddhism) .read history to verify . as there's no escaping historical and sociological laws you people might suffer the same end if you ignore vedas.

 

Huh?

Veda Vyasa,this title was conferred on Sri Badrayana coz he divided the vedas into the numerous texts we find today.

Veda was originally one.

And frankly,i don't get much of what you say(no offense of course).

 

8 : my learned friend ranjeet calls durga the servant of krishna.HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS ?????? as you guys lay so stress on puranas i'll help you understand things from markendaya puran.it is said...." VISHNU SARIR GRAHAN MAHAMEESHAN EVA CHA.." MEANING THAT DEVI IS RESPONSIBLE FOR GRANTING THEIR RESPECTIVE BODIES TO SHIVA(ESHAAN) AND VISHNU.also in another area it is said......."krishnena samstute devi sashadbhaktya sada ambike ......"MEANING KRISHNA ALWAYS WORSHIPS DEVI WITH DEEP BHAKTI.WHAT ABOUT THAT ????!!!!!

AND YOUR ILLUSTRIOUS JIVA GOSWAMI SAYS IN BHAGAVAT SANDARVA--"YAH KRISHNA SA IVA DURGA SYAT YAA DURGA KRISHNA EVA SAH " , MEANING THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DURGA AND KRISHNA.

 

yeah?

Well,why does markandeya Rsi,the compiler of this purana,declare at the end of the text,

"Durga devi is the Energy of Sri Vishnu and so are the numerous demigods we call devasThus it is to be understood that Sri Vishnu as the master of all." ?????

And it's a thing of common sense really.Sri veda Vyasa is the spiritual master of Markandeya.I'd rather read Bhagvata Purana(Author: Sri Vyasadeva at the height of his spritual life under the guidance of dev rsi,Sri Narada.) than read Markandeya purana(author: Markandeya Rsi.)

I've already explained that Uma Mahesvara are the forms of Godhead only.There is nothing new to see here.Mahesvara has all the three energies(Jeeva,Maya and Swarupa) saktis.Thus what happens between Mahesvara(Svaansh) and Sri Krsna(Bhagavan) is a matter that is confidential to Them alone.Same goes for dealings between Sri Krsna(Bhagavan) and Durga(Maya sakti).

Similarly,Parabhupada has explained that there is not a distinct difference between the possessor of the Energy and the Energy as such,BUT the possessor alwys remains the controller of energy.

And the verse of the really illustrious Jiva Gosvami means thus:

"Although Maya/durgadevi is really the external energy of sri krsna,she still resides within Him for she is His energy afterall."

 

Besides,if you can accept Sri Jiva Gosvami's work,why can't you accept Bhramadeva's work,Bhrama samhita,in which Sri Bhramaji delineates the knowledge regarding this complex topic in proper way.There he strictly maintains that Durga devi is a maid servant of Sri Krsna.

 

there is no place for such useless interpretations as presented by you.

 

 

 

9 : 'scriptural authorities' like these vaishnavs always suggest to understand scriptures literally instead of doing it emotionally.thus according to them in "MAMEKAM SHARANAM VRAJA....." krishna is suggesting to join him and kick out all other upasyas from their lives(we still believe he wasnt a tyrant ,dont we?).but but but THE MOMENT IT COMES TO "AHAM BRAHMASMI" OR "TATWAMASI" THEY START THEIR BHAVA VADI EMOTIONAL TRANSLATIONS. WHY DO YOU COWARDS DO NOT TAKE THESE BASICS OF HINDUISM IN ITS LITERAL SENSE ?????????????

Simulataneous oneness and difference explains this perfectly.I am no authority on this.

 

 

10 : kaivalya is merely a sattwik experience according to one of my friends here.nirvana is but a fragment of "real brahmananda".HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS?? SINNCE HOW MANY GENERATIONS HAVE YOU BEEN EXPERIENCING KAIVALYA OR NIRVANA???? as for me i dont think i could attain that in the upcoming few births.

 

How do i know?

 

"Kaivalyam sattvikam gyanam."

"Sattva sanjayate Gyanam."

 

 

 

lastly few question to vaishnavs:::::

 

1 : why do you drink milk by depriving a young calf of its godsend nourishment and label it satwik food???isnt this cruellity??if unfertilised eggs are nonveg on account of being an animal's body secretions so is milk.if we would have really needed milk god would have send our mothers fully equipped to feed us all through our lives.

Milk nourishes the calf and also the human body.

Unfertilsed eggs that the hens 'lay' come out during the PMS they undergo.

How does anyone justify a side-emission during PMS as edible??

Cows give so many litres of milk.If you allow the calf to drink it entirely,it will die of indigestion.Go ask any farmer.

 

2 ; inspite of calling cows your mother you make drums out of her and enjoy in merriment after her death in name of lord's seva.WHAT DIGUSTING TAMASIC SEVA IS THAT WHICH ADVOCATES PLAYING OF DEAD MOTHER'S SKIN AFTER HER DEATH IN NAME OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know where you heard this.

 

Your personal remarks such as these are unbefitting ...considering your 'level' of 'silence'.

 

 

3 :If you are so faithfull to disciplic succesion why did gaudiya vaishnavas deviate from the original tilak markings of madhavacharya sampradaya??? IS IT ALSO SOME UNKNOWN METHOD OF SHOWING RESPECT WHICH YOUR ILLUSTRIOUS PRECURSORS HAVE DISCOVERED ???

 

I have replied to this in the respective thread.You don't have to be so fussy and impatient.

 

 

no matter how much you argue with these dumb vaishnavs they can never understand.ONE NEEDS DEEP INTELLECTUALITY ,EXTENSIVE READING,AND RATIONAL SENSE PAR EXCELLENCE TO COMPREHEND A MINIMUM OF ADVAITA.PLEASE SOME ENLIGHTENED VAISHNAV FRIEND OF MINE DO THE HONOURS OF ANSWERING THE QUERRIES THAT I HAVE PUT FORWARD WITH PROPER REASONS AND SOUND LOGICS( start searching immidiately if you have any left after these illuminated years of brainwashing that you have gone through.)

Due to such immature dealings in threads,the entire spirit of debate is lost and the person becomes obnoxious to everyone.

I'd rather ignore these comments.

[sambya 0]

hi amalesh. i dont wish to generalise all vaishnavs and land them in a common catagory.read 'vaishnavs' as iskconites and people of similar thoughts. sorry for typing in that wrong sentence in a hurry. i did not mean krishna of course.not even the vaishnavs in general, but specifically members of iskcon.

[sambya 0]

hi ranjeet.now its better that you have analyzed and answered my questions.btu i should mention some points here :

you said "whereas mayavadis say: Eh,I'm as great as you are.I won't bow down to you.I don't need you to cross this mountain."

but this is a generalisation of all the advaitists.its true that some adherents to this theory are actually puffed up but most of them dont pursue advaita to defy or outshine god.just think of shaktas ans shaivas. almost all of them pursue a path of devotion to their respective ishta dev or devi ,but simultaneously believe in advaitic nirvikalpa to be the highest realization.so they are basically bhaktas with an advaitic philosophy.they never try to say im as great as you,but they dont reject advaita anubhuti.and specially in todays time most people believe in what some people call as neo-vedanta.in this there is no derogation or underestimation of the path of bhakti.they pursue prema bhakti but keep their belief in advaita .its called gyan mishra bhakti.

 

when you said "but we take different meanings for the term Bhramn too." i couldnt understand what you meant. how can brahmn have two interpretations? brahman is unity.maybe you are trying to suggest the saguna and nirguna thing but that dosent split brahman in two.its a mere perception of brahman. similarly in paramhamsa case their realizations are essentially one,but the perceptions of general people

may vary.

 

also when you say "this logic is tosh"you must analytically explain why do you think it to be such.

 

you said"Bhukti-Mukti pishachani. thats true. many advaitins(specially the neo advaitins) do not care for bhukti or mukti.they love brahman the formless nirguna aspect of lord just like dvaitins love their god with a form.its a misconception that advaitiats only strive for mukti and nothig else.

 

also markendaya purana is not written by markendaya.it is a diolouge between jaimini and sage markendaya.all the major puranas were written by vyasa himself.remember that it is durga who was the main shakti of vishnu before the concept of radharani generated in gaudiya vishnavism.durga and mahalaxmi are non different and it is laxmi who took birth as tulasi according to one purana.also you say"Parabhupada has explained that there is not a distinct difference between the possessor of the Energy and the Energy as such,BUT the possessor alwys remains the controller of energy."

that is true from one perspective but remember there are innumerable ways of viewing at things.when i think from the side of the 'powerfull' it is evident that he is superior to power , for without him power cannot work at all.but when i look from the side of 'power' its evident that without her powerfull cannot budge an inch.here power becomes superior.it all depends on what perspective you are looking at it.

 

 

you mentioned --And the verse of the really illustrious Jiva Gosvami means thus:

"Although Maya/durgadevi is really the external energy of sri krsna,she still resides within Him for she is His energy afterall."

how is that? the interpretation would be--

yah-one who

krishna-is called as krishna

sa iva-he is also

durga syat-durga herself

yaa durga-one who is called as durga

krishna eva-is also krisha

sah-himself.

where does the words 'external energy(vahiranga shakti)', 'resides' comes in?

 

you said-"I'm not refuting the existence of Nirgun,Nirvishesh,niraakar Bhramn"

by accepting nirgun brahman you automatically accept that everything is brahman.thanks for your final admission.now you know that advaita is not a complete hoax.it is in reality a very hazardous path with real dangers of falling down, which is why most spiritual leaders add bhakti with advaita and respect bhakti.that is why it is also written in gita that "one who follows gyan marga also comes to me,but with difficulty".so it is prooved that it is not a complete hoax but maybe an insufficient path.you dont need to follow advaita,but dont disrespect or disbelieve it. best of luck.

[Amlesh 1]

 

hi amalesh. i dont wish to generalise all vaishnavs and land them in a common catagory.read 'vaishnavs' as iskconites and people of similar thoughts. sorry for typing in that wrong sentence in a hurry. i did not mean krishna of course.not even the vaishnavs in general, but specifically members of iskcon.

 

Sorry again pal.. if it is so.

 

I guess I can continue with my vacation from Audarya.