The Anti-Prabhupada and Karmageddon

[Guruvani]

The Anti-Prabhupada is the embodiment of evil who wants to replace Srila Prabhupada and usher in the Karmageddon - the great battle of the end times.

Does anyone have any idea who this Anti-Prabhupada is and when the Karmageddon is going to start?

[suchandra]

 

The Anti-Prabhupada is the embodiment of evil who wants to replace Srila Prabhupada and usher in the Karmageddon - the great battle of the end times.

Does anyone have any idea who this Anti-Prabhupada is and when the Karmageddon is going to start?

 

It is, using Prabhupada's own words, "The great sinister movement is within our Society."

Now, someone might ask, wha? If you don't know about what Prabhupada is speaking here, you won't understand even when someone explains it to you.

 

 

Wednesday, 2 September, 1970 Calcutta

 

My Dear Hamsaduta,

 

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated 23rd August as well as the German BACK TO GODHEAD.

 

This masthead was submitted to me by Jaya Govinda and I approved of it, but I advised him to put the words Back to Godhead, as it is. The idea is that the original name, Back to Godhead, even it goes to foreign country it should continue to be the same.

 

As you can see from other important magazines like Life and Time they are distributed in foreign countries is the same name without being translated into the local language. If you think that such change will be more convenient, I have no objection - such change means, instead of Back to Godhead, Zuruck zur Gottheit.

 

Regarding the poisonous effect in our Society, it is a fact and I know where from this poison tree has sprung up and how it affected practically the whole Society in a very dangerous form. But it does not matter. Prahlada Maharaja was administered poison, but it did not act.

 

Similarly Lord Krsna and the Pandavas were administered poison and it did not act. I think in the same parampara system that the poison administered to our Society will not act if some of our students are as good as Prahlada Maharaja. I have therefore given the administrative power to the Governing Body Commission.

 

I have tried to give you all Krsna Consciousness, now it is your duty to develop it. If you remain strong on the spiritual platform then your progress will not be checked or blocked. I do not know what was resolved in New Vrindavan although Sriman Rupanuga Prabhu has informed others that he has sent a tape in this connection.

 

I am still in darkness about the proceedings in New Vrndavana, but I have heard that Brahmananda is preaching about me that I am Krsna, that I am Supersoul, that I have withdrawn my mercy from the disciples, that I have left the Society and so on. I do not know how far they are correct, but I have written him a letter that he may not do something which may harm the interest of the Society.

 

You are also one of the members of the GBC, so you can think over very deeply how to save the situation. It is a fact however that the great sinister movement is within our Society. I have not heard anything from Krsna das or Syamasundara., so all of you may try to save the Society from this dangerous position.

 

So far my coming here, it appears that it was Krsna's desire. There was very good reception in the Airport and the public opinion is that it was the unique reception so far given to any VIP man. Here in India, especially in Bengal, the political conditions are not very good. Everyone is feeling some sort of anxiety due to the political condition, so I have given them a sort of hope that if they take to Krsna Consciousness their problems will be solved.

 

It is not my mental concoction, but I believe in the words of Narottama Dasa Thakura that the shelter of the Lotus Feet of Lord Nityananda is as cooling effectively as the combined moonshine of millions of moons. So I am sure anyone taking shelter of Krsna Consciousness Movement will be happy. Please try to push this Movement on this process.

 

Offer my blessings to Himavati. Hope this will meet you in good health.

 

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

 

ACBS:ds

[mahak]

Finding the anti-prabhupada is no more difficult that finding the anti christ. The one who claims unalloyed love is the one, sure as judas betrayed with a kiss.

[mahak]

BTW, VALUABLE post, Suchandra. Your comments are also spot on.

[sevabhakta]

Hare Krsna Prabhus!

 

That letter to Hamsadutta dasa is a bit of an enigma.

 

Earlier in the letter he said the poison was already administered and the only solution is that some of his disciples become like Praladha Maharaja.

 

 

Regarding the poisonous effect in our Society, it is a fact and I know where from this poison tree has sprung up and how it affected practically the whole Society in a very dangerous form. But it does not matter. Prahlada Maharaja was administered poison, but it did not act.

 

 

Then he tells Hamsadutta dasa to think very deeply to figure out how to save the situation, and to work with the others to try and save the Society.

 

 

You are also one of the members of the GBC, so you can think over very deeply how to save the situation. It is a fact however that the great sinister movement is within our Society. I have not heard anything from Krsna das or Syamasundara., so all of you may try to save the Society from this dangerous position.

 

 

So it sounds to me like if his disciples were to stay pure in their following of the instructions of Srila Prabhupada, then they would be as good as Praladha Maharaja and by virtue of THAT FACT, be empowered to figure out how to act in a way that the poison would not kill the society.

 

Any other ideas?

[Guruvani]

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Regarding the poisonous effect in our Society, it is a fact and I know where from this poison tree has sprung up and how it affected practically the whole Society in a very dangerous form. But it does not matter. Prahlada Maharaja was administered poison, but it did not act. </td></tr></tbody></table>

Can somebody tell me exactly what the "great sinister movement" was and what the "poison" was that Srila Prabhupada referred to?

 

I don't know anything about that particular situation.

Why was he questioning the whereabouts of Krsna das and Symasundar?

 

Did anyone actually figure out what that "great sinister movement" actually was?

[shiva]

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Regarding the poisonous effect in our Society, it is a fact and I know where from this poison tree has sprung up and how it affected practically the whole Society in a very dangerous form. But it does not matter. Prahlada Maharaja was administered poison, but it did not act. </td></tr></tbody></table>

Can somebody tell me exactly what the "great sinister movement" was and what the "poison" was that Srila Prabhupada referred to?

 

I don't know anything about that particular situation.

Why was he questioning the whereabouts of Krsna das and Symasundar?

 

Did anyone actually figure out what that "great sinister movement" actually was?

 

This is what Subal Swami (now ex-swami) wrote about what happened:

 

 

After several days, we were driven to New York for a week and then to Philadelphia. Brahmananda, Gargamuni, and Vishnujana Maharajas went to Washington, D.C. while I stayed in Philadelphia to finish turning over the temple affairs to Nayana Bhiram.

 

The plan was that the three swamis would return to Philadelphia and then the four of us would go to New Vrindaban for Krishna's appearance day. From there, we would go to Europe, Africa, and then India.

 

I got a call from Rupanuga in Buffalo, N.Y. while the others were in D.C. He had just returned from L.A. and wanted to tell me some important things. I drove the temple van there to meet with him.

 

There had been a major shake-up. Brahmananda and Gargamuni were accused of trying to take over and reduce Prabhupada's authority, which was total. They wanted to run ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, as a cartel with them in charge. Vishnujana admitted being envious of Prabhupada.

 

Devananda, Prabhupada's secretary, was implicated by giving Prabhupada's mail to Brahmananda and Gargamuni before Prabhupada got it. They would often reply to the letters and forge Prabhupada's signature. Prabhupada was afraid of being poisoned by his own disciples as his spiritual master had been. He was eating very little, mostly raw food.

 

The sannyasa initiation was a way of giving these four a second chance. Brahmananda and Gargamuni were removed from administration but still saved face. I just happened to be ready and was included in the initiation. I was warned to be careful of the other three swamis and not be too influenced by them.

 

A new group of twelve disciples called the Governing Body Commission (GBC for short) was formed. The world was divided into twelve zones and each commissioner was in charge of spreading Krishna consciousness in his zone. Rupanuga was one of them. Their first meeting was to be in New Vrindaban at the time of Krishna's appearance day. Several of them from the U.S. were in L.A. with Rupanuga. Prabhupada was going to Japan and then to India accompanied by Kirtananda, Devananda, and Kartikeya Maharajas.

 

When Brahmananda, Gargamuni, Vishnujana, and I reunited in Philadelphia, I confronted them with what I heard from Rupanuga. Brahmananda explainedthat he had just been trying to take some of the responsibility from Prabhupada as Prabhupada had encouraged him to so that he would be free to do his translating and preaching without so much anxiety over management. Gargamuni's position was the same. Maybe they did get carried away, but they thought they were doing what Prabhupada wanted. Sure Vishnujana had been a bit envious, but he was remorseful and didn't feel he was challenging Prabhupada's position.

 

The four of us decided to stick together and do our best to serve Prabhupada. We went to New Vrindaban in the van with the Philadelphia devotees. We played tapes of Prabhupada chanting Bengali devotional songs as we drove across Pennsylvania. Gargamuni was afraid the GBC would lynch him.

 

We trudged up a hill carrying our luggage on a dirt road with ankle deep mud. Gargamuni walked into a mud pit that sucked him down to his waist like quicksand. We managed to pull him out.

 

When we reached the farm at the top of the hill, Hayagriva, GBC for South America and one of the founders of New Vrindaban, greeted us, "I see you've brought your sticks. Have you come to joust?"

 

He insisted on taking a walk with Brahmananda and Gargamuni to talk privately. He had been in L.A. with Rupanuga and others where he heard the allegations against them.

 

We were given a ten foot diameter aluminum tube dome covered with sheet plastic to stay in.

 

Devotees came from all over the world. It was an opportunity to renew old acquaintances, make new friends and enemies.

 

The swamis admitted the mistakes they had made in the past, warned of the danger of the same things happening with the GBC, and promised to be better examples in the future. However, I believe they weren’t really corrupt, just a bit overzealous, heavy handed and too results oriented in carrying out Bhaktivedanta’s wishes. They also emphasized the importance of respecting the spiritual master as the representative of Krishna.

 

Brahmananda Maharaja was the main spokesman. I backed him up with scriptural quotes and theological arguments like his legal counsel. Vishnujana Maharaja won the devotees over by his ecstatic singing of the Krishna chants. We were clearly taking the spotlight away from the GBC.

 

The Governing Body Commission held its meetings in an A-frame house. We were invited to work out an agreement. The sanyasis were to oversee the spiritual growth of the devotees. The GBC was in charge of management and seeing that standards were maintained.

 

Krishna's appearance day was observed with fasting, chanting, reading of the scriptures, and lectures. That night, as we huddled in the cool damp dome, we felt like we were on a bad acid trip. Things had gone so differently than we had expected when we joined the movement. We were facing a lot of hostility from some of the leaders and wondering how to deal with it.

 

The next day was Prabhupada's appearance day. We continued our fast until noon. We worshiped Krishna and the spiritual master. Homage to Prabhupada which devotees wrote and published in a book was read. At noon, after a session of chanting, we feasted.

 

Meanwhile, Hayagriva phoned his former (?) lover, Kirtanananda Maharaja, who was in Tokyo with Prabhupada. He accused we four swamis of preaching Mayavadi, impersonalist, philosophy which was considered a blasphemous heresy.

 

The GBC decided we should be taken to Detroit to await word from Prabhupada what to do with us. We were driven there in a van along with the Detroit devotees. We were told to stay in the attic, and only a few authorized devotees could talk to us.

 

EXCOMMUNICATION

 

Prabhupada said we had to leave the movement and couldn't preach in the name of ISKCON, but we should still be respected as sanyasis and not harmed. Brahmananda, Gargamuni, Vishnujana, and I each packed a shoulder bag and bed roll. We wrote a letter to Prabhupada explaining our side of the story.

 

We set out on foot with no money. I was smiling and waiving good-bye. I felt this was Krishna's mercy saving me from a corrupt organization that I was happy to be rid of. Now, I could just depend on Krishna's mercy.

 

We went to the post office and begged enough money to send the letter to Prabhupada in India where he would be shortly.

 

We decided that since it was fall, we should head south. We walked out of Detroit, preferring walking to hitch hiking. We stopped in a vacant lot near the Ford plant to rest. Some boys on their bikes came to check us out. It was like the good fairy or aliens from another planet had come. We were the strangest people they had ever seen. They went and got their mothers to come and bring us food. This touched our hearts, showed us that Krishna was watching out for us, and everything would be all right.

 

We walked completely out of town and spent the night under a tree near the highway. Here were four American men in their early twenties with shaved heads, saffron robes, staffs, bedrolls, shoulder bags, and no money or organizational affiliation. We were completely dependent on God's mercy and our wits.

 

The next morning after walking for awhile, we started hitch-hiking. We headed towards Ann Arbor, Michigan. It had a reputation as a liberal college town. We went to the University of Michigan where we chanted and led programs. A student we met on campus let us stay at his house for a couple of days.

 

Then we hitched down to Bowling Green, Ohio and spent the night at the home of a professor we met in the park. He bought a bunch of food that we prepared an Indian style feast with. The professor invited his friends to an evening of feasting and chanting.

 

From there, we went to Toledo and then to Dayton thinking "Here's straight middle class, Midwest America if ever there was one. What's going to happen here?"

 

To our surprise, we were well received as we chanted on the lawn near the student union of the University of Dayton. Students gathered around and listened. Some joined in. We talked with the students and arranged to speak in a couple of classes. Students put us up in the dorms, and we spent several days there.

 

When we woke up one morning, Vishnujana Maharaja was gone. Brahmananda, Gargamuni, and I went to Antioch College, in Yellow Springs, Ohio, east of Dayton, where we found him chanting on the lawn with a group of students. He used to have a rock and roll band which practiced in the basement of the Haight Ashbury commune he, Krishna Devi, and I shared when Prabhupada first came there in '67. Vishnujana was a very good guitarist and vocalist. He used to jam with the Jefferson Airplane before becoming a devotee. He was very charismatic and had a magnetic charm.

 

We joined together again and were very fortunate to get a ride all the way to Gainesville, Florida, thus avoiding hitch-hiking through the South, which presented a threat considering how we looked. We arrived late at night and stayed at a frat house. The next day, we went to Cocoa Beach.

 

We continued on to Tampa, but got stranded in Plant City. We tried hitching on the freeway, but the state trooper told us we had to hitch on the ramp. Standing on the ramp, we could see the city cops cruising by frequently. We were getting hungry, and went to a church to look for help. We found no one in the church, and when we came out the cops were there. We were loaded into a cop car with our dandas and bedrolls and taken into the station house for questioning. We were afraid the cops might beat us up, but we were driven to the edge of town and told to keep on going. It was raining, but we managed to get a ride to Tampa where we spent a short while before proceeding on to Miami.

 

We pulled into Miami in the back of a pickup truck full of greasy engine parts. We were left off in Coconut Grove and laid down in the grass in front of a restaurant. We could hardly stay awake and went to the park by the ocean to sleep.

 

When we awoke in the morning, a cop was there. He told us it was illegal to sleep in the park, but he didn't believe in bothering people for victimless crimes. He was quite friendly. Later in the day, we were walking through town. A cop car stopped us and the cops advised us not to go the way we were because there was a black ghetto ahead where there would surely be trouble. They gave us a ride to where we were headed. We thought these Miami police were the nicest cops we had ever met.

 

That night, we were walking out of town and came to a church. The church board was meeting. We went in and explained that we were mendicant Hindu monks traveling and preaching. One of the board members offered to put us up at a motel where he had a business account. He drove us there after the meeting and got us a room and credit at the restaurant. We were very thankful.

 

We spent the next night on Miami Beach in a cabana behind a hotel. We were awakened by a couple of cops. They said, "A hurricane is coming we're evacuating the beach." After questioning us, one of the cops drove us to the Salvation Army in Miami. It was an awful place full of drunken derelicts. I had nightmarish dreams. I enjoyed the hurricane the next day however. It reminded me of when I would run in hurricane winds as a boy on Long Island.

 

THE EUROPEAN TOUR

 

When we checked our mail at Miami General Delivery, there was a letter from Prabhupada. He said we were forgiven and should forget the whole ugly incident that had just happened....

[Guruvani]

Good work Sherlock Siva.

Now, I have an idea of what the "great sinister movement" was all about.

 

Sounds like some misunderstanding though.

I find it hard to believe that Brahmananda actually had sinister motives in whatever he was doing that appeared to be evil.

 

Maybe I am just naive, but I always thought that Brahmananda was very devoted and sincere to Srila Prabhupada, even though his senses got the better of him in Africa and his tongue got way out of control.

[sevabhakta]

You will know them by their symptoms and their fruits.

 

They ultimately have one leader. Yet much authority is delegated down the pyramid in order to satisfy the greedy senses of those occupying subordinate levels of "management" (coerced obedience of underlings).

 

The philosophy espoused by the leader is, I am greater than Krsna Visnu, Siva and Brahma, I have more power via knowledge than them in this material world and millions of souls who want to be just like me. And millions of other souls who we will work on and tempt them into this pyramid scam where no-one ever actually gets to enjoy the way I do, and will always compete to be closer to my level of enjoyment, but never get there.

All will worship me as supreme lord. He is the Anti Christ/Prabhupada/Krsna.

 

Thus driven by exhorbitant amounts of lust and greed, they set out to dominate and manipulate any object, animate or inanimate, to satisfy their endlessly expanding need for greater sense gratification at the expense of others.

 

This organized behavior, perfected through nature, is then insinuated into piously oriented societies as a check to test the devotional mettle of the adherents to spiritual sadhana, always there to offer the GLAMOUR of SINFUL TEMPTATION DISGUISED AS EXALTED ADHERENCE TO LAWS AND REGULATIONS PLUS LICENCE TO BE SPONTANEOUS ONCE AND A WHILE WITH NO NEED TO FEAR CONSEQUENTIAL REACTIONS ON THE GROUNDS THAT GOD LOVES AND FORGIVES TEMPORARY FALLDOWNS.

 

With the goal of adding members to a highly organized and regulated tyrannical orgy of sense gratification at the expense of the lesser fit classes with no offering of God consciousness.

 

And thus the recruiting begins, and some of the flock stray from the fold, but only those who wanted to be cheated anyway right?

 

Of course a heartfelt appeal might win a few back you never know.

 

With this MO, one can look out into the world and see easily which organizations of people on planet earth fit the bill of arranging godless civilization and infiltrating young upstart experimental god-centered societies.

[sevabhakta]

 

I got a call from Rupanuga in Buffalo, N.Y. while the others were in D.C. He had just returned from L.A. and wanted to tell me some important things. I drove the temple van there to meet with him.

 

 

There had been a major shake-up. Brahmananda and Gargamuni were accused of trying to take over and reduce Prabhupada's authority, which was total. They wanted to run ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, as a cartel with them in charge. Vishnujana admitted being envious of Prabhupada.

 

I have it from a good source that in LA in 1970, Srila Prabhupada was "kept" in a room at the LA asrama for at least a few days, not allowed out, and on rationed diet, during which time "negotiations" occured whereby Srila Prabhupada was coerced into conceeding certain powers to certain of the senior men who had captured him.

 

When was this letter written and was it related? Sherlock? Anyone?

[mahak]

the date is on the letter. It kept going. The sinister movement is that disciples tried to know better than guru, and this was consistant. And blatant. The bible of the rtviks contains this same mentality, one sanyassi putting the word "rtvik" into srila prabhupadas mouth. My experiance is that when he says "hmmm", hes really saying, "what a total fool. What a mistake I made in thinking this dude has the mentality to be an actual disciple."

 

Bramananda is (was when I knew him) a very nice disciple. He bucked the kirtanananda and tamal bandwagon, was usually on the side of those who were blown away by the black politics of the leadership. He acted as an emisary of srila prabhupada to give best wishes to those of us who HAD TO live in exile from ISKCON even while prabhupada was with us.

 

Unfortunately, we are all victims of our association. I, too, made serious offenses to innocent devotees because of trying to gain favor of those who I thought may deserve it. Fortunately, Srila Prabhupada punished me severely for this "following the kali cela because Im blind as a bat" syndrome, and has granted me refuge in my exile.

 

I dont think the letter above is that complex. It is in the same vein as his disappointment that his disciples were selling tirtha maharaja literature as if it were as good as the books their own spiritual master was working hard at publishing. I think his sadness is the issue here, not betrayal, because no one seemed to grasp the idea of discipleship. There were no Iswara Puris at his death bed, just cursed devotees waiting patiently for him to hurry up and die so they could grab his seat and the power and prestiege (not to mention the fine brahmacarinis) he would leave behind. The sinister movement is easily translated as useless disciples who ruined everything they touched.

 

mahaksadasa, not the nectar I am anxious for.

[shiva]

I'm not saying that what Subal wrote is totally true, this is because at the present he is trying to present himself as a new type of gaudiya guru for the masses. What he wrote in the above is part of his autobiography and I can only take it as possibly distorted history due to his current interest in promoting himself as a new savior preaching a new revelation on Krsna consciousness. Therefore he may have distorted history to suit his own current attempt to present himself as a guru. I notice he doesn't mention anything about whenthose swamis were supposedly claiming that Prabupada was God, nor does he explain why Hayagriva called them mayavadis, nor why he himself was thrown out of iskcon, he seeks to make himself look like an innocent who was lumped in with people who he was warned about. So I wouldn't take his history as totally true without corroboration from other sources.

[mahak]

one thing I always liked about my friend subal was his honesty.

 

And that he started his own movement makes me like him even more.

 

Wasnt much of a singer though, but his caratalas were good, and he had the moves.

Subal is the one who looks like a surfer, shaking his head, entranced. This tape has em all, jayananda, goursundara, et all, better daze. Real.

[sevabhakta]

It is obvious when the Hamsadutta dasa letter was published.

 

I was questioning the dating of the occurance described in the letter/diary of Subal Prabhu.

[Guruvani]

 

one sanyassi putting the word "rtvik" into srila prabhupadas mouth.

I don't buy that.

Tamal didn't really know diddly about Sanskrit.

My best guess is that Tamal had previously inquired from Srila Prabhupada what the Sanskrit word for these representatives of Srila Prabhupada would be and that Srila Prabhupada told "ritvik".

 

Because these representative initiations had been going on is ISKCON for several years.

I am sure that Tamal, even if with sinister motives, wanted to know what these proxy initiators would be known as in the Sanskrit terminology. (hoping to stump Srila Prabhupada thinking that there is no such thing as a proxy initiator)

 

Nobody will ever convince me that Tamal came up with the term "ritvik".

 

Tamal wouldn't know ritvik from dipstick.

 

I have no doubts that Srila Prabhupada had used the term before in instructing Tamal and that Tamal was just remembering how Srila Prabhupada had referred to these proxy initiators previously.

 

My guess is that Tamal was trying to prove to Srila Prabhupada that there is no such thing as proxy initiation because he wanted to establish that himself and his ISKCON buddies would become guru after the death of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Sure, I am speculating or you could say following my intuition, but Tamal didn't invent the ritvik term for ISKCON and anybody that says Srila Prabhupada was letting Tamal run the show is a fool.

[Guruvani]

 

I have it from a good source that in LA in 1970, Srila Prabhupada was "kept" in a room at the LA asrama for at least a few days, not allowed out, and on rationed diet, during which time "negotiations" occured

 

I heard that story too.

But, my guess is that if it really happened Srila Prabhupada was just hanging in there knowing that he had enough sincere disciple in ISKCON that would eventually catch on to the conspiracy and come bust him out of confinement and arrest the evil-doers.

 

A couple of conspirators could not hold out forever surrounded by hundreds of devotee servants of Srila Prabhupada.

 

They would have been fools to even think they could pull that off in ISKCON with so many other followers who would have even killed them had they found out that such a situation was occuring.

[mahak]

They dragged Srila Prabhupada into their may 28 meeting to ask him for clarification. He tells them. Then Tamal grabs the chair with his sanskrit term, the new buzz word (that none of the rest of even heard anywhere). Has nothing with content, it has everything to do with mentality.

 

You must remember the atmosphere in summer 1977. He was dying. black keith had gathered together his hillbillie mafia, and tamal had usurped the brahmacari hustlers he injected into Visnujnanas TSP, maybe even offing him in the process. Two groups, which one was gonna win.

 

He pleaded with us to cooperate, and rank and file did, but the gundas and their minions (many of today's sour grape rtvik proponants) caused great turmoil, purged the movement, especially of the old timers who knew these dudes were frauds. This is the sinister plot, not just in 70, but continuing until they finally let him die in peace, which turns out to perhaps not have been very peaceful at that.

 

I dont argue the validity of ISKCON anymore, in fact, I ran away gladly in '75. I never tell anyone to go anywhere near one of their centers. If by chance someone wants a recommendation, Ill tell them of whom Ive heard who is valid according to my level of understanding and self-realization, but never recommend any foundation or any team that separates itself from other vaisnavas. I lent my ears to the rtviks for many years, but had about three questions that I asked them, and they never answered, never had a clue, so I call them the other side of the same nonsense coin as whom they rebel against (sour grapes).

 

Rtvik came from the may 28th discussion before they brought prabhupada into the room. They needed a diploma, they demanded, as always, service from prabhupada. This is definition of sinister (ass backwards, left handed, literally). The sinister movement is puffed up disciples, when disciple means meek and mild, submissive inquirers, not those eager to correct and enlighten the senile old man.

[Guruvani]

 

They dragged Srila Prabhupada into their may 28 meeting to ask him for clarification. He tells them. Then Tamal grabs the chair with his sanskrit term, the new buzz word

But, your theory falls apart when we read the letters that Srila Prabhupada wrote to Hansaduta refering to him as ritvik on a couple of occasions.

 

It was the letter to Hans where Srila Prabhupada more-or-less confided in him about the "sinister evil movement" as if to enlist Hans in a role of helping to stop the "sinister evil movement".

 

So, if Tamal did invent "ritvik" for ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada took it up himself and used the term himself reminding Hans of his duty to represent him and push forward the ISKCON mission.

 

So, it appears that Srila Prabhupada enrolled one of the top ISKCON tough guys (Hans) in helping to bring down the "sinister evil movement".

 

It's kind of interesting that nowadays Hans is a fervent proponet of ritvik system for ISKCON.

 

I think in the end Hans found it in himself to abandon the ISKCON fraud party and stand up for what he truly understands to be the will of Srila Prabhupada.

[sevabhakta]

Speaking of wills, Srila Prabhupada's last will and testament proclaims

 

 

'...a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple...' (Srila Prabhupada's Last Will and Testament, Registered 7/6/77, Paragraph 3)

 

This makes it clear that future directors for properties in ISKCON from now on could only be selected from Srila Prabhupada's initiated disciples. Clearly such a provision could only be enacted if Srila Prabhupada had also made a provision for himself to continue initiating new disciples in ISKCON. Otherwise the pool of potential directors would quickly dry up.

 

You anti-ritviks are suffering from envy.

 

Here is a little purport that describes how strictly we must follow the rules and regulations of sastra and the spiritual master's instructions given in regards to the society known as ISKCON, if we are to initiate ourselves solidly into the beginning stage of devotional service prerequisite to the stage wherein we experience the riper nectar of face time in Krsna's pasttimes.

 

 

SB 4.9.11 Purport

 

The significant point in Dhruva Maharaja’s statement is that he wanted the association of pure devotees. Transcendental devotional service cannot be complete and cannot be relishable without the association of devotees. We have therefore established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Anyone who is trying to be aloof from this Krishna Consciousness Society and yet engage in Krsna consciousness is living in a great hallucination, for this is not possible. From this statement by Dhruva Maharaja it is clear that unless one is associated with devotees, his devotional service does not mature; it does not become distinct from material activities. The Lord says, satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah (Bhag. 3.25.25). Only in the association of pure devotees can the words of Lord Krsna be fully potent and relishable to the heart and ear. Dhruva Maharaja explicitly wanted the association of devotees. That association in devotional activities is just like the waves of an incessantly flowing river. In our Krishna Consciousness Society we have full engagement twenty-four hours a day. Every moment of our time is always busily engaged in the service of the Lord. This is called the incessant flow of devotional service.

A Mayavadi philosopher may question us, “You may be very happy in the association of devotees, but what is your plan for crossing the ocean of material existence?” Dhruva Maharaja’s answer is that it is not very difficult. He clearly says that this ocean can be crossed very easily if one simply becomes mad to hear the glories of the Lord. Bhavad-guna-katha: for anyone who persistently engages in hearing the topics of the Lord from Srimad Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrta and who is actually addicted to this process, just as one becomes addicted to intoxicants, it is very easy to cross the nescience of material existence. The ocean of material nescience is compared to a blazing fire, but to a devotee this blazing fire is insignificant because he is completely absorbed in devotional service. Although the material world is blazing fire, to a devotee it appears full of pleasure (visvam purna-sukhayate).

The purport of this statement by Dhruva Maharaja is that devotional service in the association of devotees is the cause of the development of further devotional service. By devotional service only is one elevated to the transcendental planet Goloka Vrndavana, and there also there is only devotional service, for the activities of devotional service both in this world and in the spiritual world are one and the same. Devotional service does not change. The example of a mango can be given here. If one gets an unripe mango, it is still a mango, and when it is ripe it remains the same mango, but it has become more tasteful and relishable. Similarly, there is devotional service performed according to the direction of the spiritual master and the injunctions and regulative principles of sastra, and there is devotional service in the spiritual world, rendered directly in association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But they are both the same. There is no change. The difference is that one stage is unripe and the other is ripe and more relishable. It is possible to mature in devotional service only in the association of devotees.

 

 

 

 

24 HOURS A DAY OF REGULATIONS EQUALS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. We need a society of like minded for support and encouragement or else we bloop.

 

Unfortunately I have not found such a shelter in what is being passed as Iskcon centers in the few that I have visited, and here that is the norm.

 

So what to do, hmmm?

[Beggar]

 

'...a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple...' (Srila Prabhupada's Last Will and Testament, Registered 7/6/77, Paragraph 3)

 

This makes it clear that future directors for properties in ISKCON from now on could only be selected from Srila Prabhupada's initiated disciples. Clearly such a provision could only be enacted if Srila Prabhupada had also made a provision for himself to continue initiating new disciples in ISKCON. Otherwise the pool of potential directors would quickly dry up.

 

You anti-ritviks are suffering from envy.

 

Everyone in the material world is envious including the high court judges who would say that the quoted statement from Prabhupada's Last Will and Testament does not provide enough evidence within itself to come to the the conclusion that you are pushing.

[suchandra]

 

Good work Sherlock Siva.

Now, I have an idea of what the "great sinister movement" was all about.

 

Sounds like some misunderstanding though.

I find it hard to believe that Brahmananda actually had sinister motives in whatever he was doing that appeared to be evil.

 

Maybe I am just naive, but I always thought that Brahmananda was very devoted and sincere to Srila Prabhupada, even though his senses got the better of him in Africa and his tongue got way out of control.

When Prabhupada speaks of, "the great sinister movement", he surely never referred to some disciples who got lost, but to his global ISKCON movement taken over by the present globalization network and changed into a private global welfare org for collecting funds - benefiting a few dozens private owners. But this is what anyway happened, ISKCON/GM became part of the globalization network and abide to the directives given by the leading global players. Although the globalization network would like to turn the Sankirtan Movement into a private global welfare org for collecting funds at places with a high share of Hindu population - what will finally happen is that Prabhupada's movement, Lord Chaitanya's Sankirtan Movement can't be incorporated by materialists just like Aghasura couldn't devour Krishna and the cowherd boys.

 

 

"Krishna is the assurance of safety to everyone. But when He saw that His friends were already out of His hands and were lying within the belly of a great serpent, He became, momentarily, aggrieved. He was also struck with wonder how the external energy works so wonderfully. He then began to consider how the demon should be killed and how He could save the boys and calves. Although there was no factual concern on Krishna's part, He was thinking like that. Finally, after some deliberation, He also entered the mouth of the demon. When Krishna entered, all the demigods, who had gathered to see the fun and who were hiding within the clouds, began to express their feelings with the words, "Alas! alas!" At the same time, all the friends of Aghasura, especially Kamsa, who were all accustomed to eating flesh and blood, began to express their jubilation, understanding that Krsna had also entered the mouth of the demon.

 

 

While the demon was trying to smash Krishna and His companions, Krishna heard the demigods crying, "Alas, alas," and He immediately began to expand Himself within the throat of the demon. Although he had a gigantic body, the demon choked by the expanding of Krishna. His big eyes moved violently, and he quickly suffocated. His life-air could not come out from any source, and ultimately it burst out of a hole in the upper part of his skull. Thus his life-air passed off. After the demon dropped dead, Krishna, with His transcendental glance alone, brought all the boys and calves back to consciousness and came with them out of the mouth of the demon. While Krishna was within the mouth of Aghasura, the demon's spirit soul came out like a dazzling light, illuminating all directions, and waited in the sky. As soon as Krishna with His calves and friends came out of the mouth of the demon, that glittering effulgent light immediately merged into the body of Krishna within the vision of all the demigods.

The demigods became overwhelmed with joy and began to shower flowers on the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, and thus they worshiped Him. The denizens of heaven began to dance in jubilation, and the denizens in Gandharvaloka began to offer various kinds of prayers. Drummers began to beat drums in jubilation, the brahmanas began to recite Vedic hymns, and all the devotees of the Lord began to chant the words, "Jaya! Jaya! All glories to the Supreme Personality of Godhead!"

When Lord Brahma heard those auspicious vibrations which sounded throughout the higher planetary system, he immediately came down to see what had happened. He saw that the demon was killed, and he was struck with wonder at the uncommon glorious pastimes of the Personality of Godhead. The gigantic mouth of the demon remained in an open position for many days and gradually dried up; it remained a spot of pleasure pastimes for all the cowherd boys."

 

 

full story: http://krsnabook.com/ch12.html

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Oh, wow!! Thanks for the YouTube link, Mahak!!

 

At work, we block YouTube, so I don't usually follow the links, but, this one was pure nectar (and interesting anthropologically).

 

 

one thing I always liked about my friend subal was his honesty.

 

And that he started his own movement makes me like him even more.

 

Wasnt much of a singer though, but his caratalas were good, and he had the moves.

Subal is the one who looks like a surfer, shaking his head, entranced. This tape has em all, jayananda, goursundara, et all, better daze. Real.

[sevabhakta]

 

Everyone in the material world is envious including the high court judges who would say that the quoted statement from Prabhupada's Last Will and Testament does not provide enough evidence within itself to come to the the conclusion that you are pushing.

 

My uncle was a karmi judge. He wasn't bought off to globalists. If there was logic, reason, and evidence, he would rule for the truth.

 

There is a chain of provable documented evidence which demonstrates reasonably and logically that the ritvik system can be considered an ecclesiastical management system, that it was ordered to remain as such, and the last will and testament strictly backs it.

 

Any judge not yet sold out would resist the threats that would come to his life and family, and rule in the favor of those trying to remove the criminal sinister movement from Iskcon properties.

 

Law enforcement on that issue would then be quite a show.

 

The percentage of judges fitting that bill today are small however.

 

The discerning devotees understand that a societal system that accomodates those of mixed devotional psychology, such as Iskcon, is based on a set of rules and regulations which must be followed strictly in order to ripen the mango of devotion. There is no other way for the true neophyte to advance.

 

Without participating, REGULARLY, in a Sankirtana society functioning in the manner envisioned by Sri Krsna Caitanya's premier and seminal western emissary, not one of the Armchair Cyber Babaji's is going make the spiritual advancement they have the potential of making.

 

Srila Prabhupada stressed that we spend our entire lives preaching either literally, or preaching by supporting the preachers. Then when we are qualified to go to a quiet place alone. Otherwise it is just maya.

 

 

 

SB 4.28.33 purport

“My dear mind, what kind of devotee are you? Simply for cheap adoration you sit in a solitary place and pretend to chant the Hare Krsna mahä-mantra, but this is all cheating.” Thus Bhaktisiddhänta Saraswati Thäkura advocated that every devotee, under the guidance of an expert spiritual master, preach the bhakti cult, Krsna consciousness, all over the world. Only when one is mature can he sit in a solitary place and retire from preaching all over the world. Following this example, the devotees of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness now render service as preachers in various parts of the world. Now they can allow the spiritual master to retire from active preaching work. In the last stage of the spiritual master’s life, the devotees of the spiritual master should take preaching activities into their own hands. In this way the spiritual master can sit down in a solitary place and render nirjana-bhajana.

 

 

The terms "Iskcon" and "International society for Krishna Consciousness" are used profusely throughout the purports of the Bhagavatam and CC. The greatest of weight is placed upon Iskcon in relation to the development of devotional service. Often in the same paragraph he interchanges the word Iskcon with "Krsna consciousness movement".

 

 

SB 4.12.37 Purport.

Without the association of devotees, one cannot advance in Krsna consciousness. Therefore, we have established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Factually, whoever lives in this society automatically develops Krsna consciousness. Devotees are dear to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is only dear to devotees. On this platform only can one make progress in Krsna consciousness. Persons in Krsna consciousness, or devotees of the Lord, can please everyone, as is evident in the Krsna consciousness movement. We invite everyone, without discrimination; we request everyone to sit down and chant the Hare Krsna mantra and take as much prasada as we can supply, and thus everyone is pleased with us. This is the qualification. Sarva-bhutanuranjanah.

 

 

And finally this purport speaks for itself. I will only post the most relevant piece to this post, but the omitted part builds very nicely on the premise.

 

 

SB 4.9.11 Purport :

The significant point in Dhruva Mahäräja’s statement is that he wanted the association of pure devotees. Transcendental devotional service cannot be complete and cannot be relishable without the association of devotees. We have therefore established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Anyone who is trying to be aloof from this Krishna Consciousness Society and yet engage in Krsna consciousness is living in a great hallucination, for this is not possible.

 

 

All glories to Iskcon.

 

Hare Krsna

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Spoken just like a (Krishna-Conscious) lawyer, sevabhakta-ji.

 

Sorry, but I don't buy your argument for the statement from Srila Prabhupada's will under discussion here as having been intended to apply in perpetuity.

 

Of course, who am I to judge? I'm not even on the jury.

[sevabhakta]

 

Spoken just like a (Krishna-Conscious) lawyer, sevabhakta-ji.

 

Sorry, but I don't buy your argument for the statement from Srila Prabhupada's will under discussion here as having been intended to apply in perpetuity.

 

Of course, who am I to judge? I'm not even on the jury.

 

What whimsy, you don't "buy" my proposition, cannot reasonably state why, yet blurt out your opinion anyway. This upstart tendency is why you are no one to judge, but if you ever got called to jury duty on such a serious issue, I am certain the gravity of truth would weigh upon you nicely.

 

Hare Krsna