Is disciplic succession a scriptural injunction?

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

I've been told that at the Rtvik Technological Divison they are working on a high tech computer controlled Prabhupada murti with an electronic brain. You will be able to ask the electronic Prabhupada any question and it (he) will respond from any of his books, letters or lectures. That's a little sarcastic satire. But really, there is the technology to do this. It would just cost many millions of dollars. So if you've got the money, you could have a robotic guru and by your mercy so could many others. So if one is a rich rtvik they should go for it.

 

Or we could just follow Srila Prabhupada's instructions:

 

"All questions will be clarified if you simply read our books very thoroughly and follow the simple process of devotional service as we have given it to chant regularly and rigidly observe the rules and regulations. This is our principle that the spiritual science becomes revealed to the devotee from within the heart according to the degree of his surrender to Krsna." - Letter to Ekayani, 25 july, 1970

[Guest guest]

 

Or we could just follow Srila Prabhupada's instructions:

 

"All questions will be clarified if you simply read our books very thoroughly and follow the simple process of devotional service as we have given it to chant regularly and rigidly observe the rules and regulations. <b>This is our principle that the spiritual science becomes revealed to the devotee from within the heart according to the degree of his surrender to Krsna."<b> - Letter to Ekayani, 25 july, 1970

 

This should make it clear. Books will not answer questions - but will put one on the right path. Answers will be revealed to the devotee when he is mature enough to understand the answers.

 

Whatever you do not have at this time is what you are not ready for.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Srila Prabhupada did not present the parampara as a link of bodies, one to the next - you did.

 

Prabhupada always spoke of belonging to the unbroken chain of disciplic succession. Which part of "unbroken" do you not understand? Who came up with that phrase? What is the meaning of unbroken in that context? that it gets broken and fixed again and again? is that the meaning of unbroken?

 

sometimes Prabhupada would explain things in different ways that is why you need to look at the issue from several angles, and see other quotes as well.

 

as to flipping between siksha and diksha in the area of parampara: I wonder where that flexible concept came from?

[Guest guest]

Just as well you're not interested in a debate ... there have been too many anyways.

 

 

I never spoke anything about what Krishna said, what Bhagavad Gita says or what other Acharya's say. Kulapavana made a claim that Srila Prabhupada said something which he didn't, and I have objected to that claim. I'm not interested in debating with you what Krishna said in Bhagavad Gita.

[Guest guest]

And how does the devotee become mature? By the aging process or by devotee association?

 

 

This should make it clear. Books will not answer questions - but will put one on the right path. Answers will be revealed to the devotee when he is mature enough to understand the answers.

 

Whatever you do not have at this time is what you are not ready for.

[Kulapavana 0]

“Caitanya-caritamrita – Adi Lila” by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is none other than the combined form of Sri Radha and Krsna. He is the life of those devotees who strictly follow in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami. Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Sanatana Gosvami are the two principal followers of Srila Svarupa Damodara Gosvami, who acted as the most confidential servitor of Lord Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, known as Visvambhara in His early life. A direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami was Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The author of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, stands as the direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami.

 

The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self.

 

Since we belong to this chain of disciplic succession from Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, this edition of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta will contain nothing newly manufactured by our tiny brains, but only remnants of foodstuff originally eaten by the Lord Himself. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu does not belong to the mundane plane of the three qualitative modes. He belongs to the transcendental plane beyond the reach of the imperfect sense perception of a living being. Even the most erudite mundane scholar cannot approach the transcendentai plane unless he submits himself to transcendental sound with a receptive mood, for in that mood only can one realize the message of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. What will be described herein, therefore, has nothing to do with the experimental thoughts created by the speculative habits of inert minds. The subject matter of this book is not a mental concoction but a factual spiritual experience that one can realize only by accepting the line of disciplic succession described above. Any deviation from that line will bewilder the reader's understanding of the mystery of Sri Caitanya Caritamrta which is a transcendental literature meant for the postgraduate study of one who has realized all the Vedic literatures such as the Upanisads and Vedanta and their natural commentaries such as Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita.This edition of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta is presented for the study of sincere scholars who are really seeking the Absolute Truth. It is not the arrogant scholarship of a mental speculator but a sincere effort to serve the order of a superior authority whose service is the life and soui of this humble effort. It does not deviate even slightly from the revealed scriptures, and therefore anyone who follows in the disciplic line will be able to realize the essence of this book simply by the method of aural reception."

- -

"As already stated, Brahma is the original spiritual master for the universe, and since he was initiated by the Lord Himself, the message of Srimad-Bhagavatam is coming down by disciplic succession, and in order to receive the real message of Srimad-Bhagavatam one should approach the current link, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession. After being initiated by the proper spiritual master in that chain of succession, one should engage himself in the discharge of tapasya in the execution of devotional service." (Srimad Bhagavatam, 2.9.7p)

- -

One may ask that if Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself, then why did He need a spiritual master? Of course He did not need a spiritual master, but because He was playing the role of acarya (one who teaches by example), He accepted a spiritual master. Even Krsna Himself accepted a spiritual master, for that is the system. In this way the Lord sets the example for men. We should not think, however, that the Lord takes a spiritual master because He is in want of knowledge. He is simply stressing the importance of accepting the disciplic succession. The knowledge of that disciplic succession actually comes from the Lord Himself, and if the knowledge descends unbroken, it is perfect.

(Lecture ACBS New York City, April 10–14, 1967.)

- -

Teachings of Lord Chaitanya (pg. 16)

We should not think, however, that the Lord takes a spiritual master because He is in want of knowledge. He is simply stressing the importance of accepting the disciplic succession. The knowledge of that disciplic succession actually comes from the Lord Himself, and if the knowledge descends unbroken, it is perfect. Although we may not be in touch with the original personality who first imparted the knowledge, we may receive the same knowledge through this process of transmission.

- -

(from the Dr. Frog Ph.D. talks)

"When we try to present knowledge without taking it from Krishna in the disciplic succession it is always contaminated by four types of defects: we have a tendency to cheat, we are illusioned -- we accept something as a fact which is not actually a fact, our senses are imperfect and we make mistakes. Because all scientific research is riddled with these faults it is all imperfect knowledge. However, if we take the knowledge coming down from the perfect source, Krishna, via the unbroken chain of disciplic succession, it is perfect. We don't need to do anything except accept the knowledge, all the research work has already been done".

[gHari 0]

 

And how does the devotee become mature? By the aging process or by devotee association?

By Krsna association.

[Guest guest]

I agree. But funnily, some people here in order to discredit the great Vaisnavas in the world, claim that books will be enough!

 

 

By Krsna association.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

This problem is a result of the failure of the people who had the authority to setup unambigous rules to do their job right. Instead of using proper logic and drawing from clear sources, they resorted to creating a careless and sloppy system which left many questions unanswered now causing much confusion and trouble. unfortunately, this confusion will persist until someone who is strong enough to make rules comes along and does a decent job.

 

it is a gradual process... actually, Gaudiya Vaishnavism was never very well organized in that area. with so much emphasis on spiritual emotions, ever changing perspectives, and inner realisations - reason, intellectual discipline and logic often lagged far behind. for a western devotee or a scholar it can be quite exasperating

[Guest guest]

 

Lord Krsna defines His spiritual infrastructure in Bhagavad-gita 4.34:

 

<center>

tad viddhi praNipAtena

paripraznena sevayA

upadekSyanti te jJAnaM

jJAninas tattva-darzinaH

</center>

tat--that knowledge of different sacrifices; viddhi--try to understand; praNipAtena--by approaching a spiritual master; paripraznena--by submissive inquiries; sevayA--by the rendering of service; upadekSyanti--they will initiate; te--you; jJAnam--into knowledge; jJAninaH--the self-realized; tattva--of the truth; darzinaH--seers.

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.

 

PURPORT

 

The path of spiritual realization is undoubtedly difficult. The Lord therefore advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself. No one can be a bona fide spiritual master without following this principle of disciplic succession. The Lord is the original spiritual master, and a person in the disciplic succession can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple. No one can be spiritually realized by manufacturing his own process, as is the fashion of the foolish pretenders. The BhAgavatam (6.3.19) says, dharmaM tu sAkSAd bhagavat-praNItam: the path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguments cannot help lead one to the right path. Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in spiritual life. One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige. Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned. Not only should one hear submissively from the spiritual master, but one must also get a clear understanding from him, in submission and service and inquiries. A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect.

 

 

 

 

This purport that GHari has provided in this debate does appear to conradict some of the other quotations given by Ancient Mariner although I personally have no problem following all of these instructions.

It does emphasize approaching one who has realized the Truth and rendering menial service to that Guru. I may be wrong but from what I can understand of this advice it is not talking about the chaitya Guru in the heart, but rather an actual meeting with a person face to face, whereby that guru can examine your nature, your personality, and confirm your queries directly, or correct your misconceptions, not your own mind or concept of divinity doing the confirmation, of course that will have to come into play at times, in the absence of guru whenever we are apart from our Gurudev.

 

But this instruction is obviously talking about a meeting in the tangible sense:

Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding.

At the same time I can understand how this can be interrpreted.

 

You may well be able to spend time in the company of such a spiritual master and imbibe that vani given by him without ever taking diksa, and then leave that company to engage in the service he has requested, thereby pleasing chaitya guru or Lord in your heart. Or perhaps not even physically meet that person but just effectionately try to live out his wishes by genuinely following what you understand of his instuctions, which will protect one from the pitfalls of the illusory energy. Thereby bonding one to the will of guru and God, and that is all good.

Still I think it a little dangerous to dismiss the process of diksa as something opposing Siksa, rather it should merely compliment and enhance our siksa igniting and increasing our sacrifice and service, because in the process of genuine transmission the agent from God takes a personal interest in our development and fine tunes our service, checking that the siksa we may be receiving is that which he is giving, encouraging, inspiring, directing and correcting us in so many tangible forms.

 

Like for instance what does the fire sacrifice really mean or the descent of the Name in our Japa Malika at the time of first and 2nd initiation? Is it just a ritual or does the Holy Name descend through the pure God realized Guru to the disciple, upon acceptance of ones character. do we need Japa, and if so how do we receive it if not via the medium of guru, or do we just give ourselves japa, and Gayatri?

From my experience and understanding it is an extreme benediction of Grace to receive this connection of mercy directly from the hand in the form of ones Japa mala, the tongue that is vibrating the pure name, "Here I'd like you to meet my guru and Krsna", the heart... a more reliable one then my own as they are already knowing Paramatma intimately, and the soul whose every vibration of siksa is pure divinity, at least with a suddha bhakta.

I recall at the time of my personal diksa initiation my Guru Maharaj Srila Sridhara Maharaj was so intensely concentrating in deep prayer to introduce me to His Lord and master that I nearly lost consciousness, likewise I was praying desperately to open my heart to receive the gift that was being given in those precious moments, it was by no means an ordinary wake up call. At the same time he gave much valuable siksa of the inner meaning of what he was transmitting to this soul, that instruction I hope is engraved in gold on my heart and soul forever.

Similarly the utterance of Gayatri in my ear, was not like reading it on the internet. It may be the same wording but the substance and reality are worlds apart, so many are receiving Gayatri in the market place and maybe some will utilize that to their spiritual benefit, but it is the person that bestows it that determins the potency of the conception, and relationships with guruvarga, Sri Sri Nitai Gauranga and ultimately Sri Sri Radha Govinda. If they are real or just a sham.

After all it is an intoduction to a whole guru varga of pure servitors, not just the Lord direct.

 

Srila Prabhupad used to recommend prospective disciples spend at least 6 months if not more submissively serving and querying their potential guru, so that both are satisfied that sincerity is there before initiation. And in this time the guru gets to know the disciples serving propensity or lack thereof.

Thereby preparing them for a position in their own gurus service camp, it's all very personal. Still in saying that I'm not saying that can't happen without personally meeting a guru in the flesh. Like in any large business organisation, the janitor may not ever meet the CEO of that company, but the CEO may still be aware of the janitors regular service to the company.

 

In the service of the vaisnavas

Sridas anudas

[Guest guest]

 

And how does the devotee become mature? By the aging process or by devotee association?

 

Yes depends which devotees, some will speed up the aging process, and then some will remind you of your eternal spiritual swarup.

[Guest guest]

The important thing is you should know what you want.

 

Once you are clear and serious about him, then everything that happens around you will take you closer to him though it may not always be apparent. It is not like a factory assembly line to know what will happen exactly when. It is entirely specific to the individual and it is useless to apply measuring techniques or compare progress with other individuals.

 

The point is, do not get bogged down by conflicting rules and details. Focus on the end goal and eventually these things will fall away.

[AncientMariner 0]

One thing is clear this debate will probably go on forever and there will always be a group that says you have to find a living embodied spiritual master and there will always be a group that says spiritual masters don't die and they live on in their words etc and most likely both groups will fire pot shots at each other from time to time. At least that is the way it looks.

[theist 1]

 

Yes depends which devotees, some will speed up the aging process, and then some will remind you of your eternal spiritual swarup.

 

[theist 1]

 

"If a devotee accepts Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the universal guru and Lord Jagannatha as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna, he is benefited by the combined mercy of Krsna and guru." - Madhya 13.18 purport

 

 

Sounds like a good deal to me. What do I have to do to sign up for that bargain?

 

According to the verse one needs to accept. We "believe" and a little faith may grow. Then an occasional realization. Faith gets firmer. We "accept " more fully and deeply until we become emmersed cent per cent in Krsna consciousness as it comes through Lord Caitanya.

 

Acceptance is not really mere acknowledgment. That is not sufficent. If someone is trying to hand you a precious gem and all we do is acknowledge that it is indeed a precious gem but refuse to take possession of it can it be said that we have truly accepted the gem?

 

Full acceptance is to possess the teachings of Lord Caitanya. It also entails being possessed by them.

[Guest guest]

Pass the gem on and more gems will come.

[theist 1]

I think the problem lies here with our lack of a broad vision of how Krsna chooses to reveal Himself to a devotee. He may choose to reveal Himself primarily through the acaryas writings to someone and to another He may post that devotee as a personal servant to his guru rendering all kinds of practical services and receiving daily instruction from him.

 

This is a personal process and not a formulaic one.

 

Frankly I have long been (7 years or more) DISGUSTED with people who insist on ignoring Srila Prabhupada's clear teachings on this matter and continue to say the opposite while giving cheap lip praise to him. Some think it thir mission to push their conception on guru down the throats of those whose faith naturally flows to Srila Prabhupada. Such are so envious that they have the gall to say that it an offense to their guru to prefer Prabhupada's vani over their guru's body and the scene he may have going.

[AncientMariner 0]

 

I think the problem lies here with our lack of a broad vision of how Krsna chooses to reveal Himself to a devotee. He may choose to reveal Himself primarily through the acaryas writings to someone and to another He may post that devotee as a personal servant to his guru rendering all kinds of practical services and receiving daily instruction from him.

 

This is a personal process and not a formulaic one.

 

Frankly I have long been (7 years or more) DISGUSTED with people who insist on ignoring Srila Prabhupada's clear teachings on this matter and continue to say the opposite while giving cheap lip praise to him. Some think it thir mission to push their conception on guru down the throats of those whose faith naturally flows to Srila Prabhupada. Such are so envious that they have the gall to say that it an offense to their guru to prefer Prabhupada's vani over their guru's body and the scene he may have going.

 

Yeah that is kind of how I feel. I don't have any problem with people having their own guru. The point where it gets ridiculous to me is when people get offended that you wont fall at the feet of their guru. My position is that I wish all gurus the best but Srila Prabhupada is the one I have most natural affection for because he traveled to this godforsaken country at least from a spiritual perspective and went through countless things I would never have the patience or the fortitude to endure just to help people like myself.

[Shakti-Fan 0]

99% of the leading and senior devotees in all the Sridhar Maharaja factions, the Narayana Maharaja camp, both Puri Maharaja camps and so on are ex ISKCON devotees. Of those about 40% are direct Prabhupada disciples. If you go to Vrndavana in Kartika you will find about 60% of the non-Indian devotees are from Gaudiya Math off-shoots, although ISKCON has far more devotees worldwide. Devotees sometimes change camps some leave ISKCON and some go back to ISKCON or become Rtviks. If you love Prabhupada then tell others about Prabhupada but you have to recognize that others will love their guru and their sanga and want to bring you in. Just like you will want to bring others into the Prabhupada only camp. It works both ways. What to do? Trnadapi sunicena...

[Guest guest]

 

99% of the leading and senior devotees in all the Sridhar Maharaja factions, the Narayana Maharaja camp, both Puri Maharaja camps and so on are ex ISKCON devotees. Of those about 40% are direct Prabhupada disciples. If you go to Vrndavana in Kartika you will find about 60% of the non-Indian devotees are from Gaudiya Math off-shoots, although ISKCON has far more devotees worldwide.

 

Srila Govinda Maharaj has about 45 sannyasis working under his guidance. Of those, only Janardan Maharaj, Goswami, Giri, Madhava Puri, Nyasi and Siddhanti Maharaj are disciples of Srila Prabhupada. Almost all the others are direct disciples of Srila Govinda Maharaj.

 

There are a dozen or so sannyasi disciples of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, most of whom were never in ISKCON (they are mostly Bengali devotees). The vast majority of the disciples of Srila Govinda Maharaj, most specially the Bengali devotees, have never been members of ISKCON. Even amongst the western devotees from places such as Venezuela, Brazil, Russia and Mauritius - few of them were in ISKCON. Leading devotees of SCSMath worldwide such as Avadhuta Maharaj, Acharya Maharaj, Paramahamsa, Tirtha and Trivikrama were never in ISKCON.

[Guest guest]

 

99% of the leading and senior devotees in all the Sridhar Maharaja factions, the Narayana Maharaja camp, both Puri Maharaja camps and so on are ex ISKCON devotees.

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja had thousands of disciples, even before Srila Prabhupada came to America. What about Aranya Maharaj, Haricharan, Damodara Maharaj or Tirtha Maharaj? They were all with Guru Maharaj since before Srila Prabhupada came to America. Srila Prabhupada did a miracle when he came to the west and converted so many people towards Vaishnavism, but it is nonsense to say that most of the leading devotees in Srila Sridhara Maharaja's mission came from ISKCON.

 

Here is a more realistic statistic - 90% of Srila Govinda Maharaj's disciples are Bengali people from the villages of west bengal. And how did those villagers find out about Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Govinda Maharaj? Not from ISKCON, that is for sure.

[Shakti-Fan 0]

We are speaking of non-Indian devotees only. Even in places like Russia most SCSM devotees had some ISKCON contact even superficially, (devotees or books) before contact with SCSM. ISKCON does a very good job of introducing people to Krsna Consciousness. Many of those who are introduced immediately see ISKCON's current contradictions and seek out a spritual master that they feel they can trust, such as Srila Govinda Maharaja. This just happens to be the contemporary situation in the world of spreading Krsna Consciousness. Its not that devotees of SCSM International are envious of Prabhupada. Srila Govinda Maharaja had an intimate relationship with him as many know. So ISKCONites and Prabhupada Onlyites should not be suprised when people they have preached to or even those who have lived in ISKCON temples join the SCSM or other Maths. Devotees want a sadhu who they can trust and who will not fall down.

[Guest guest]

 

We are speaking of non-Indian devotees only. Even in places like Russia most SCSM devotees had some ISKCON contact even superficially, (devotees or books) before contact with SCSM.

 

Avadhuta Maharaj, the leader in Russia, was never a member of ISKCON.

 

Most of the new devotees of SCSMath, the overwhelming majority, a totally "green" and have never been in ISKCON. I know dozens of the devotees in Russia and I can assure you this is the case. There was a time when most people came from ISKCON but that time ended long ago.

 

 

ISKCON does a very good job of introducing people to Krsna Consciousness.

 

Yes that is true.

 

But I merely wanted to make the point that most new devotees of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math have no previous connection with ISKCON.

 

Here in my country hardly any of the hundreds of disciples who have been initiated by Srila Govinda Maharaj during the past ten years have previously been members of ISKCON. Maybe 10% or less.

[Guest guest]

 

We are speaking of non-Indian devotees only. Even in places like Russia most SCSM devotees had some ISKCON contact even superficially, (devotees or books) before contact with SCSM. ISKCON does a very good job of introducing people to Krsna Consciousness. Many of those who are introduced immediately see ISKCON's current contradictions and seek out a spritual master that they feel they can trust, such as Srila Govinda Maharaja. This just happens to be the contemporary situation in the world of spreading Krsna Consciousness. Its not that devotees of SCSM International are envious of Prabhupada. Srila Govinda Maharaja had an intimate relationship with him as many know. So ISKCONites and Prabhupada Onlyites should not be suprised when people they have preached to or even those who have lived in ISKCON temples join the SCSM or other Maths. Devotees want a sadhu who they can trust and who will not fall down.

 

It's true that many aresearching for a more stable connection these days. I don't know any devotees in SCSM who are inimical of Srila Prabhupad most have the same respect and affection that their guru Srila Govinda Maharaj has and in most cases that extends to the Iskcon organization with the exception of some iskcon members who are critical of their guru SGM. So naturally his disciples will feel a little despondent to honor them.

 

The world is a vast canvassing field and it is open to give all conceptions, the reason you will find many canvassing to take the dharsan of Srila Govinda Maharaj is because they trace the grace and presence of Srila Prabhupad in Srila Govinda Maharaj more than anywhere else, he could talk for days on his intimate personal association with Prabhupad and from what we know Prabhupad loved him very much just like Srila Sridhar Maharaj also, but that isn't the newcomers attraction, it's just icing on the cake.

So therefore devotees from the Math feel they get a trifecter of gurus Grace in one person, this may get under some other devotees skin, but we can't deny it, nor can we help it, he was cultvated by two very great Vaisnavas.

It's a wonderful experience that they want to share, what to speak of everything else. Giving honor especially to those we are indebted too is our life and that has been Srila Govinda Maharaj's special gift.

 

It is all of our responsibility to direct anyone to the best shelter we know to be available on this planet at present because there's some horrific opposition to taking shelter from the worldly nightmare out there, and we see time and again floundering souls getting great relief from the storm in the association of Srila Govinda Maharaj and co.. so why not direct them there.

To some it may come across as fanatic proselytizing, to others it may just be a link to the best step they ever take.

Forums are just one channell to broadcast the various conceptions of divinity and this forum prides itself with being OPEN to all. Not just exclusive to what some see as Srila Prabhupads currant. We've all had to tolerate so much nonsense over the years from so many challenges and attacks on the Rupanuga Parampara, at times very gross and other times very subtle. But we just try to give what we can from our limited capacity to help the visitors and guests that may wander into these different perspectives of divinity,

looking for answers, or direction to a guru that greater devotees than us have recommended. The fact that the general populace even comes into contact with chanting is a blessing, and some are using a bigger brush to facilitate that than others, so we should be happy that they are doing what we may not be capable of.

 

 

Theist I don't quite get what you mean by "over their guru's body and the scene he may have going"......

Please explain, what does this referr too specificly?

 

Such are so envious that they have the gall to say that it an offense to their guru to prefer Prabhupada's vani over their guru's body and the scene he may have going.

[Guruvani 0]

Personally. I think Srila Prabhupada's idea to take basic, fundamental Krishna consciousness and distribute it to the masses is more in line with the humanitarian mission of Mahaprabhu than is the reclusive distillary type of devotion that of course can present some deeper and more intimate portrait of Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

When expertise in broadcasting Krishna consciousness is just not there in a bhakta, then of course his mood will be to penetrate deeper into the more esoteric aspects of Mahaprabhu lila.

 

Most all ISKCON products are going to favor and appreciate the concept of liberal broadcasting over the more contemplative philosphical thinkers in the Gaudiya tradition.

 

So, Srila Prabhupada was about getting as many people started on the path as possible, and not so much about trying to discover some new esoteric meaning in the Gaudiya philosophy.

 

Prabhupada knew that everybody wasn't going to make it to perfection in one life, but he wanted to get as many people as possible started on the path. At sometime, in this life or a future life, they will finally achieve ultimate success.

 

No matter how you cut it, that just seems to be the most munificent and magnamimous disposition.

 

Since, Mahaprabhu was the most munificent and magnanmous incarnation of the Lord to ever appear, then it is only natural that his most intimate devotees will also represent that supreme standard of mercifulness.

 

Millions of souls have been touched by the wave of mercy and compassion that flowed from the heart of Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

Before it is all over, that number will reach into the billions.

 

Srila Prabhupada ki-jaya.