What are the qualities of a guru you can trust?

[Sridas]

Gurvani,

 

Those vaisnavas who supported Srila Govinda Maharaj are and were the minority, when he needed their help most, relatively few were there, in the light of the 6 billion humans that inhabit this planet. Even tho it came from the lips of Srila Sridhara Maharaj himself, that he was acharya, still the ones outside the Math were seeking pratista and guruship, not those faithful to Srila Govinda Maharaj serving inside-alongside of him and he has always been grateful for that confidence in him.

 

He once told you could always tell the faithful to Srila Sridhara Maharaj by those who actually came to him and did hands-on service, not just lip service, basking in his limelight. They were there fullfilling his every service requirement, not just critics in the background, or free riders, and armchair philosophers claiming he's doing a good job...but!

When it came to the bottom line they wern't in the there stoking the sacrificial flames.

The same applies to Srila Govinda Maharaj's position now.

 

Srila Govinda Maharaj fullfilled every service wish of Srila Sridhara Maharaj to the extreme, and he is eternally indebted to those that tangibly assisted and are continueing to tangibly assist that mission, preserving his dignified honor while others were trying to diminuish it.

They know who they are and their service is its own sweet reward.

They didn't need the external manifestation of a massive preaching mission to start with, and they still don't but they continue to build it...

[Guruvani]

 

Gurvani,

 

Those vaisnavas who supported Srila Govinda Maharaj are and were the minority, when he needed their help most, relatively few were there, in the light of the 6 billion humans that inhabit this planet. Even tho it came from the lips of Srila Sridhara Maharaj himself, that he was acharya, still the ones outside the Math were seeking pratista and guruship, not those faithful to Srila Govinda Maharaj serving inside-alongside of him and he has always been grateful for that confidence in him.

 

He once told you could always tell the faithful to Srila Sridhara Maharaj by those who actually came to him and did hands-on service, not just lip service, basking in his limelight. They were there fullfilling his every service requirement, not just critics in the background, or free riders, and armchair philosophers claiming he's doing a good job...but!

When it came to the bottom line they wern't in the there stoking the sacrificial flames.

The same applies to Srila Govinda Maharaj's position now.

 

Srila Govinda Maharaj fullfilled every service wish of Srila Sridhara Maharaj to the extreme, and he is eternally indebted to those that tangibly assisted and are continueing to tangibly assist that mission, preserving his dignified honor while others were trying to diminuish it.

They know who they are and their service is its own sweet reward.

They didn't need the external manifestation of a massive preaching mission to start with, and they still don't but they continue to build it...

 

That doesn't change the fact that Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "permanent and wholesale".

In my mind "permanent and wholesale" means permanent and wholesale.

 

Sridhar Maharaja was not one to talk out of both sides of his mouth.

He didn't say different things at different times.

There is nothing he said that undoes the "permanent and wholesale" ritvik appointment of Govinda Maharaja.

 

I don't care about sentiments, property or position at the Matha.

 

I read Sridhar Maharaja's formal statement about his successor and his succession and I see a ritvik system.

 

Here again, somebody is trying to infer that a ritvik empowerment is some sort of denigrating, disrespectful or derogatory position.

 

I strongly disagree and think that any disciple should be extremely honored to be a ritvik to the acharya.

 

If devotees could ever understand that being ritvik is an honor and not a disgrace, then maybe they could get beyond their foolish notions about the ritvik system.

 

As far as I am concerned, it takes a real acharya to be ritvik of his Gurudeva. It takes a very pure devotee to be a ritvik.

 

Any poser can pretend to be guru, but it takes a very pure and humble disciple to be ritvik.

 

All this pride of being guru and rejecting the ritvik status is a lower position.

 

Ritviks are more than guru. They are representatives of the acharya and teachers both.

 

Vaidica ritviks and Bhagavat ritviks are not the same thing, no more than Vaidic brahmans and Bhagavat brahmans are on the same level.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur introduced Bhagavat Brahmans into the Gaudiya sampradaya and broke the monopoly of the Nityananda vamsha that had been dogging the Gaudiyas for centuries.

Srila Prabhupada introduced Bhagavat ritviks as empowered representatives of the acharya.

Since the Krishna consciousness movement follows the Bhagavat parampara of siksha gurus and NOT the Vaidica parampara of diksha gurus, the ISKCON ritviks must necessarily be Bhagavat ritviks.

 

they are authorized representatives to initiate disciples into their mathas and temples and the worship of the authorized deities that the acharyas installed.

[Sridas]

 

That doesn't change the fact that Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "permanent and wholesale".

In my mind "permanent and wholesale" means permanent and wholesale.

 

 

Prabhu many were given the position of ritvik to Srila Sridhara Maharaj but that doesn't mean it was permanent, it was nessacary according to time and circumstance. What is permanent is the empowerment as acharya that was especially given to Srila Govinda Maharaj. As Srila Guru Maharaj saw him as his most favoured choice and gave his full energy 200%. Ritvik was common to many, but not empowered acharya for that takes very special qualification and recognition from the higher agents.

 

In reality Guru Maharaj was just confirming for those without vision that Srila Govinda Maharaj is fully qualified. If just ritvik appointment is all it takes then all the other sanyasins are also permanent and considering i was instrumental in this transmission process then am I also permanent? I think not.

 

 

 

I read Sridhar Maharaja's formal statement about his successor and his succession and I see a ritvik system.

 

I just see the Rupanuga Guru varga, but with some extra icing on the cake through the Grace of Srila Sridhara Maharaj.... more in the light of the precedent given by Mahaprabhu to Srila Rupa Goswami when he personally empowered Sri Rupa, then requested all the devotees to do likewise.

It was a very dynamic and exciting time to experience. I was there personally and i found it quite enlivening.

 

Here again, somebody is trying to infer that a ritvik empowerment is some sort of denigrating, disrespectful or derogatory position.

 

Not at all if it has the backing of the maha bhagavat agent, it is as good as coming from God Himself, it is still a matter of faith in that person giving and receiving the authority.

No one here in this exchange is saying ritvic is derogatory, or even inferring it.

 

I strongly disagree and think that any disciple should be extremely honored to be a ritvik to the acharya.

If devotees could ever understand that being ritvik is an honor and not a disgrace, then maybe they could get beyond their foolish notions about the ritvik system.

 

If the representitives are empowered, Absolutely!

But a lot of the time if the ritvik medium is madyam adhikhari and vulnerable to falldown then all the congregation may not accept that the currant was being transferred and received fully or connected to the power source or they may even be envious of that medium.

 

As far as I am concerned, it takes a real acharya to be ritvik of his Gurudeva. It takes a very pure devotee to be a ritvik.

 

and not all come up to scratch

 

 

In the sense that every disciple should represent their Gurudev and does everything on gurus behalf. Just as Srila Govinda Maharaj says, "He is gathering servitors to offer to Srila Guru Maharaj," you could say that this is permanent or eternal.

After Srila Sridhara Maharaj left this world Srila Govinda Maharaj became the next acharya in his own right, he didn't remain ritvic at that point, just started taking his own diksa disciples.

Remaining ritvic permanently implies that he is continually making disciples who think their diksa guru is Srila Sridhara Maharaj.

 

My wife was one of those who originally took that ritvic connection thru Srila Govinda Maharaj on the veranda, while Srila Sridhara Maharaj was next door in his room. She has always seen herself and been regarded as a disciple of Srila Sridhara Maharaj. Yet none of those who took initiation after Guru Maharaj left consider themselves diksa disciples of Srila Sridhara Maharaj. they see themselves as disciples of Srila Govinda Maharaj obviously. I think it is getting mixed up with the Prabhupadanuga thing, perhaps.

Still many of us still see ourselves as siksa disciples of Srila Gurudev Govinda Maharaj even tho we are formally Godbrothers.

[Guruvani]

Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "permanent and wholesale".

This was all in his final formal declaration of spiritual succession that he declared to the entire Gaudiya Vaishnava community.

Govinda Maharaja can never really be anything except a ritvik because this was the specific position that Sridhar Maharaja gave him "permanent and wholesale".

I would be quite fine with Govinda Maharaja being successor acharya, except for the fact that Sridhar Maharaja specifically appointed him to be ritvik "permanent and wholesale".

 

I don't have any prestige, position or property at stake here.

All I have are the words of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and I prefer to cling to that rather than the sentiments of the neophyte devotees that have tried to break the words of Sridhar Maharaja and remove Govinda Maharaja as a ritvik of Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

What Sridhar Maharaja has done in appointing Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "wholesale and permanent" cannot be undone by anyone ever.

It's stands eternally as the position of Govinda Maharaja, despite what his neophyte fan club prefers to say.

 

Try to understand that my seeing Govinda Maharaja as ritvik is nothing derogatory or deprecating.

As far as I am concerned being ritvik to Sridhar Maharaja is every bit as important and sacred as being guru or successor acharya.

He represents Sridhar Maharaja.

That is a mighty great position to have, whether you call him ritvik or acharya.

I just happen to call it ritvik, because that is how Sridhar Maharaja described it.

I am not a follower of the disciples of Govinda Maharaja.

I don't accept their version of things.

I aspire to be a follower of Sridhar Maharaja.

I have feelings for him, so that is where my heart is at.

 

Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "permanent and wholesale".

The sentiments of the followers of Govinda Maharaja cannot change that.

Govinda Maharaja get's his sanction and authority from above, not from the neophyte flatterers.

 

 

Dr Asthana: Does Rtvik mean the direct successor?

 

Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj: Rtvik means the representative. It may be temporary or it may be permanent. It may be partial or it may be full, as empowerment is there.

 

Dr Asthana: Is the empowerment to Govinda Maharaj now temporary or permanent?

 

Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj: Permanent. Wholesale - both property and the function - transferred. If anyone has no recognition of this opinion of mine, I do not want them to live in the Mission. I drag them out.

 

Sridhar Maharaja said that anyone who didn't accept Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "permanent and wholesale" that he did not want them in his mission and that he would drag them out.

 

I think all those who do not accept Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "permanent and wholesale" should all be dragged out of the Matha as Sridhar Maharaja wanted.

[Sridas]

Okay I've got where you are coming from now, all the best with your aspirations to follow Srila Guru Maharaj.

Just out of curiosity who gave you the Name Guruvani?

[Guruvani]

 

Okay I've got where you are coming from now, all the best with your aspirations to follow Srila Guru Maharaj.

Just out of curiosity who gave you the Name Guruvani?

 

That's not my name.

It's my ideology.

Here on the internet a lot of us use niks.

 

I was inspired to use this nik from reading this:

Adi-lila ch1. text 35 purport

 

 

If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.

[Beggar]

 

Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "permanent and wholesale".

This was all in his final formal declaration of spiritual succession that he declared to the entire Gaudiya Vaishnava community.

Govinda Maharaja can never really be anything except a ritvik because this was the specific position that Sridhar Maharaja gave him "permanent and wholesale".

 

Interesting, I guess I've been fooled all along. I thought that Sridhar Maharaja's conception of spiritual reality was that it is dynamic as oppossed to matter which is static. Based on his conception the jiva soul is certainly dynamic, except for a person who Sridhar Maharaja said is a transcendental personality! It's amazing how statements out of context can be twisted to express an absurd point. And I am not a sychophant of Govinda Maharaja by any stretch of the imagination.

[gHari]

 

Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "permanent and wholesale".

This was all in his final formal declaration of spiritual succession that he declared to the entire Gaudiya Vaishnava community.

Govinda Maharaja can never really be anything except a ritvik because this was the specific position that Sridhar Maharaja gave him "permanent and wholesale".

I would be quite fine with Govinda Maharaja being successor acharya, except for the fact that Sridhar Maharaja specifically appointed him to be ritvik "permanent and wholesale".

That is absolutely wrong, as explained explicitly by both Srila Sridhara Maharaja and by Srila Govinda Maharaja. It won't take much research to find the appropriate quotes. Stay unattached, and find the truth.

[Guruvani]

 

Interesting, I guess I've been fooled all along. I thought that Sridhar Maharaja's conception of spiritual reality was that it is dynamic as oppossed to matter which is static. Based on his conception the jiva soul is certainly dynamic, except for a person who Sridhar Maharaja said is a transcendental personality! It's amazing how statements out of context can be twisted to express an absurd point. And I am not a sychophant of Govinda Maharaja by any stretch of the imagination.

True.

Ritvik is a very dynamic position, as the ritvik is always bringing new souls to offer to the lotus feet of the self-realized spiritual master.

Again, we have another hard-head who thinks there is some derogatory stigma attached to being a ritvik, when in fact being a ritvik is every bit as glorious and important as being an acharya.

Sridhar Maharaja didn't demean Govinda Maharaja by appointing him ritvik.

The acharya of SCSM is Srila Sridhar Maharaja and Govinda Maharaja is his representative ritvik.

That is every bit as good as being an acharya, only he is ritvik instead.

[Guruvani]

 

That is absolutely wrong, as explained explicitly by both Srila Sridhara Maharaja and by Srila Govinda Maharaja. It won't take much research to find the appropriate quotes. Stay unattached, and find the truth.

Well it is going to be pretty hard to negate the final declaration of spiritual succession that Sridhar Maharaja announced to the whole Gaudiya community when he appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik "from now on".

"Permanent and wholesale".

There is nothing wrong with being a ritvik.

It's just that simpletons with a misunderstanding of what a ritvik is are trying to attach something derogatory to the position of ritvik, but that is not the actual situation of being a ritvik.

Sridhar Maharaja said "ritvik means representative".

What is so bad about being the representative of Srila Sridhar Maharaja or Srila Prabhupada?

Nothing!

It is absolutely glorious and honorable to be a ritvik for the acharya.

It's not denigrating or deprecating at all.

 

It's just ignorance about "ritvik tattva" that causes people to attach a negative status to being ritvik.

[Guest guest]

One problem with Ksamabuddhi's (Guruvani's) analysis is that in the very same conversation, Sridhar Maharaja says that Aksayananda Swami (Sagar Maharaja) is "ritvik of Swami Maharaj and also myself."

 

By what authority was Aksayananda a ritvik of Swami Maharaj? Aksayananda's name did not appear on the July 1977 list of ritviks (which, as we know from Brahmananda's absence, was at least in part by qualification). However, Aksayananda reports that Prabhupada had told him he could initiate -- as a sannyasi-guru, not as a ritvik.

 

Through the Mahamandala, Sridhar Maharaja had authorized Aksayananda to act as a guru. Through his direct order, Prabhupada had authorized Aksayananda to act as a guru.

 

A disciple can have only one diksa-guru. So if Aksayananda was somehow a proxy of BOTH gurus, this means that Aksayananda's initiates would have had TWO diksa-gurus. It would have been different if Sridhar Maharaja had said he was a ritvik of "either" Sridhar Maharaja or Prabhupada, but that's not what he said. He said "also."

 

The only way to reconcile the idea that Aksayananda was ritvik of BOTH acharyas is if "ritvik" simply means that his connection connects the disciple to that acharya. And indeed, the disciples of Aksayananda were connected to the mantra-diksa line of Prabhupada and the siksa line of Sridhar Maharaja. Sridhar Maharaja was using "ritvik" in the general sense by which every legitimate guru is the representative -- the "ritvik" -- of his guru. Govinda Maharaja is the ritvik of Sridhar Maharaja in exactly the same sense by which Sridhar Maharaja was the ritvik of Bhaktisiddhanta. That is all.

[Guest guest]

 

True.

Ritvik is a very dynamic position, as the ritvik is always bringing new souls to offer to the lotus feet of the self-realized spiritual master.

Again, we have another hard-head who thinks there is some derogatory stigma attached to being a ritvik, when in fact being a ritvik is every bit as glorious and important as being an acharya.

Sridhar Maharaja didn't demean Govinda Maharaja by appointing him ritvik.

The acharya of SCSM is Srila Sridhar Maharaja and Govinda Maharaja is his representative ritvik.

That is every bit as good as being an acharya, only he is ritvik instead.

 

Dynamic as oppossed to static is unrestrictively expansive or contractive by definition. Therefore there is no need for an adjective by definition. Can "absolute" be "very absolute", or for that matter "partially absolute"? Then why the modification of the word dynamic? The point is that any disciple has the potential to become a perfect disciple and therefore a spiritual master in their own right. Of course by your logic, thats all disciples of all spiritual masters except for Govinda Maharaja who has been eternally restricted by his guru. Maybe if I render enough service in a future life then I may be granted the boon of being eternally restricted by Sri Guru! Something doesn't compute here! Either the ritvik thing is being misconstrued or it never really happened and is a fraud. If you look at the body of Srila Sridhar Maharaja's recorded conversations the whole appointment, ritvik postion of Govinda Maharaja seems in total contradiction with SSM's realization. On the other hand if you consider what happenned to Bhadri, Nimai etc. you can see that that the SCSM in the mid eighties was rather small and Govinda Maharaja was the only senior man who SSM could trust. It's not that the concept of ritvik is somehow derogatory, its the fact that in this scenario there appears to me a restriction that I can't see SSM imposing on any soul, let alone an intimate friend, confidant and disciple. Something is not kosher here and many have been left wondering for years.

[Beggar]

The last post was beggar, forgot to log in.

[Guruvani]

 

One problem with Ksamabuddhi's (Guruvani's) analysis is that in the very same conversation, Sridhar Maharaja says that Aksayananda Swami (Sagar Maharaja) is "ritvik of Swami Maharaj and also myself."

 

By what authority was Aksayananda a ritvik of Swami Maharaj? Aksayananda's name did not appear on the July 1977 list of ritviks (which, as we know from Brahmananda's absence, was at least in part by qualification). However, Aksayananda reports that Prabhupada had told him he could initiate -- as a sannyasi-guru, not as a ritvik.

 

Through the Mahamandala, Sridhar Maharaja had authorized Aksayananda to act as a guru. Through his direct order, Prabhupada had authorized Aksayananda to act as a guru.

 

A disciple can have only one diksa-guru. So if Aksayananda was somehow a proxy of BOTH gurus, this means that Aksayananda's initiates would have had TWO diksa-gurus. It would have been different if Sridhar Maharaja had said he was a ritvik of "either" Sridhar Maharaja or Prabhupada, but that's not what he said. He said "also."

 

The only way to reconcile the idea that Aksayananda was ritvik of BOTH acharyas is if "ritvik" simply means that his connection connects the disciple to that acharya. And indeed, the disciples of Aksayananda were connected to the mantra-diksa line of Prabhupada and the siksa line of Sridhar Maharaja. Sridhar Maharaja was using "ritvik" in the general sense by which every legitimate guru is the representative -- the "ritvik" -- of his guru. Govinda Maharaja is the ritvik of Sridhar Maharaja in exactly the same sense by which Sridhar Maharaja was the ritvik of Bhaktisiddhanta. That is all.

 

You are trying to make something that is very simple very complicated.

Akshayananda Swami (Bhakti Anand Sagar) was referred to as "ritvik of Swami Maharaja and myself" by Sridhar Sridhar Maharaja in that being ritvik of both acharyas he could give iinitiations to aspirants who either had their faith in Sridhar Maharaja or Srila Prabhupada, depending on which acharya the aspirant chose as his spiritual master.

The ritvik would find out which acharya the aspirant wanted to follow and then he could initiate that person on behalf of that acharya and the disciple could go about following the particular acharya that he loved the most.

Then the disciple would formally be considered a disciple of whichever acharya he had accepted as his spiritual master through the ritvik.

 

You ask..

 

By what authority was Aksayananda a ritvik of Swami Maharaj?

 

Well, since Sagar Maharaja had accepted Sridhar Maharaja as his siksha guru, and considering that the siksha guru is every bit as important as the diksha guru, then we would have to say that if Sridhar Maharaja referred to him as ritvik, then it would be on the authority of Sridhar Maharaja that Akshayananda Swami was a ritvik of Srila Prabhupada.

 

So, you talk about dynamic..........

Well, it don't get any more dynamic that that.

 

so as we know Sagar Maharaja fell down which proves he was not qualified to be guru and which proves that Srila Prabhupada would not have appointed him as his successor acharya (diksha guru).

 

Sagar Maharaja fell down long before it was public.

I have a friend who heard him about to rock a truck camper off it's blocks with the wife of another devotee in Badger years before his "falldown".

So, these kinds of "Swamis" have never been and will never be qualified to be acharyas.

If the acharya appoints them as ritviks, then we can't argue that.

[Guruvani]

 

Dynamic as oppossed to static is unrestrictively expansive or contractive by definition. Therefore there is no need for an adjective by definition. Can "absolute" be "very absolute", or for that matter "partially absolute"? Then why the modification of the word dynamic? The point is that any disciple has the potential to become a perfect disciple and therefore a spiritual master in their own right. Of course by your logic, thats all disciples of all spiritual masters except for Govinda Maharaja who has been eternally restricted by his guru. Maybe if I render enough service in a future life then I may be granted the boon of being eternally restricted by Sri Guru! Something doesn't compute here! Either the ritvik thing is being misconstrued or it never really happened and is a fraud. If you look at the body of Srila Sridhar Maharaja's recorded conversations the whole appointment, ritvik postion of Govinda Maharaja seems in total contradiction with SSM's realization. On the other hand if you consider what happenned to Bhadri, Nimai etc. you can see that that the SCSM in the mid eighties was rather small and Govinda Maharaja was the only senior man who SSM could trust. It's not that the concept of ritvik is somehow derogatory, its the fact that in this scenario there appears to me a restriction that I can't see SSM imposing on any soul, let alone an intimate friend, confidant and disciple. Something is not kosher here and many have been left wondering for years.

Ok, then let's try this.....

Just picture in your mind that on Gaura Purnima in 1986, Srila Sridhar made a very special announcement.

He chose this day to make a very public and very important statement.

It was on this day that Sridhar Maharaja said he would make his formal and official declaration to the Gaudiya community about his instructions on his spiritual succession - his declaration of how the disciplic succession would continue on in the SCSMath after him.

This was not some conversation that he had been coerced into by some visitor or student.

This was the formal, final and official declaration of spiritual succession of Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

This was the definitive, the complete and authorized final declaration of spiritual succession as declared by Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

Here is that statement as was recorded on Gaura Purnima 1986.

 

 

According to the desire of my Divine Master, I have been maintaining this Disciplic Succession but it is no longer possible for me, as I am now too old and an invalid. You all know from long ago I have chosen Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj and I have given him sannyasa. All my Vaishnava Godbrothers are very affectionate towards him and it is also their desire to give him this position. I have previously given to him the charge of the Math and now I am giving him the full responsibility of giving Harinam, diksha, sannyasa, etc., as an Acharya of this Math on behalf of myself.

Those who have any regard for me should give this respect and position to Govinda Maharaj as my successor. As much as you have faith in my sincerity, then with all sincerity I believe that he has got the capacity of rendering service in this way. With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as ritvik. The ritvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The ritvik is the representative. So if you want to take from me, and you take by his hands, then it will be as well and as good as taking from me.

In the Mahamandala, Sagar Maharaj and many others are also ritvik of Swami Maharaj and also myself. They may do so, but in this Math and in any Math under this Math, he will be the representative. If anyone cannot accept this, he may leave the Math rather than stay here and disturb the peace of the Math. With all my sincerity and good feelings to Guru-Gauranga, to the Vaishnavas and the Acharyas, Mahaprabhu, Pancha-Tattva, Radha-Govinda and Their Parshadas, with all my sincere prayers to Them, henceforth he will represent me in this affair beginning from today's function.

Now I shall go from here and he will do the necessary. On my behalf, he will give Harinama, diksha, sannyasa, and everything.

<hr>

Please note that in the official declaration of spiritual succession of Sridhar Maharaja on Gaura Purnima of 1986 he appointed Govinda Maharaja as his ritvik.

 

 

With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as ritvik. The ritvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The ritvik is the representative. So if you want to take from me, and you take by his hands, then it will be as well and as good as taking from me.

 

Please note also that he appointed Akshayananda Swami as ritvik of himself and of Srila Prabhupada

 

 

In the Mahamandala, Sagar Maharaj and many others are also ritvik of Swami Maharaj and also myself. They may do so, but in this Math and in any Math under this Math, he will be the representative.

 

Since Sridhar Maharaja was the siksha guru of Akshayananda Swami, then if Sridhar Maharaja refers to him as ritvik of "Swami Maharaja", then that is how Akshayananda Swami should see himself.

 

that is the dynamics of how things work.

the diksha guru might tell you to initiate.

The siksha guru might change that to ritvik.

 

That is real dynamics at work!

 

The bottom line is that nothing trumps, overrides, undoes, neutralizes or negates the final, formal, official public declaration of spritual succession that Sridhar Maharaja announced on Gaura Purnima of 1986.

As Achyutananda Swami would say.......................... "that all folks".

[Guest guest]

'Never been qualified' may be an acceptable thing to say but 'never will be'? How can you say that? What is your authority?

 

 

So, these kinds of "Swamis" have never been and will never be qualified to be acharyas.

If the acharya appoints them as ritviks, then we can't argue that.

[Guruvani]

 

'Never been qualified' may be an acceptable thing to say but 'never will be'? How can you say that? What is your authority?

If the acharya appoints them as "ritvik" as "permanent and wholesale", then we just have to accept the intructions of the acharya.

 

these men should have gotten their wild oats sown BEFORE they took sannyasa.

Once they bring disgrace to the order of sannyasa and the guru that awarded them that, then I don't think they should ever be given the position of acharya.

[Guest guest]

With all due respect, does it matter at all what you think? It's the Sastra & the Guru whose thoughts matter.

 

 

then I don't think they should ever be given the position of acharya.

[Guruvani]

 

With all due respect, does it matter at all what you think? It's the Sastra & the Guru whose thoughts matter.

 

oooops.........

you got me there!

that is just my opinion.

 

But, don't change the subject!!

 

This is not about me or my opinion!

 

It's about the final, formal, official public declaration of spiritual succession of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and his appointing Govinda Maharaja to the position of ritvik.

 

After Sridhar Maharaja left, then all the devotees started saying "Govinda Maharaja is not ritvk, he is acharya".

Well, I am sorry, but none of them devotees have the right or authority to undo what Sridhar Maharaja has done with appointing Govinda Maharaja as ritvik successor.

 

I think they have all committed offense against Sridhar Maharaja in negelecting his ritvik appointment while this group of neophytes have declared the ritvik appointment as null and void.

 

This is what sentiment and position seeking turns into.

[Guest guest]

You think. No point continuing this debate.

 

 

I think they have all committed offense against Sridhar Maharaja in negelecting his ritvik appointment while this group of neophytes have declared the ritvik appointment as null and void.

 

This is what sentiment and position seeking turns into.

[Guruvani]

 

You think. No point continuing this debate.

 

Yeah, I know.

I am not allowed to think.

I am supposed to follow the hoarde of neophytes at SCSM who have rejected Sridhar Maharaja's ritvik appointment of Govinda Maharaja and taken it upon themselves to override Sridhar Maharaja and nullify the ritvik appointment of Govinda Maharaja.

[Guest guest]

LOL, from ISKCON guru bashing, you ritviks have now taken it upon yourselves to blaspheme the devotees at SCSM.

 

Who's next?!

 

 

Yeah, I know.

I am not allowed to think.

I am supposed to follow the hoarde of neophytes at SCSM who have rejected Sridhar Maharaja's ritvik appointment of Govinda Maharaja and taken it upon themselves to override Sridhar Maharaja and nullify the ritvik appointment of Govinda Maharaja.

[Guruvani]

 

LOL, from ISKCON guru bashing, you ritviks have now taken it upon yourselves to blaspheme the devotees at SCSM.

 

Who's next?!

Blasphemy?

Since when is it a crime to hold up the declaration of spiritual succession of Sridhar Maharaja and examine if it is being followed?

 

You might call it blasphemy, but I can assure you that I don't have a dog in this fight.

I am like an impartial judge looking at both sides of the case and making my own conclusions.

I don't need a bunk at SCSM, nor a stick to carry around to garner me some prestige or anything like that.

 

I am just an impartial observer looking at the facts, the documents and the decree to find out the truth.

 

I could care less if Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik, Viceroy or the Count of Monte Cristo.

 

Any person who is literate can read the declaration of spiritual succession of Sridhar Maharaja and see that he appointed Govinda Maharaja as the successor acharya in a ritvik capacity.

 

Maybe that is the problem?

Maybe there are some out there who can't read?

[Beggar]

So much contradiction. Why split hairs over ritvik or diksha guru or acarya?

If one is setting the example of bhakti and seva in the present, why would the past be such a large consideration? Why would "api cet sudaracaro" not apply? We don't want our past to be considered in the land of mercy but we want it applied to others. Sounds a bit hypocritical. Live and let live is the best policy. Why should it be open season on those whom many consider their guru? (in many camps). Best to error on the side of caution, lest we fall off the precipice of vaisnava aparadha.

[suchandra]

 

Since when is it a crime to hold up the declaration of spiritual succession of Sridhar Maharaja and examine if it is being followed?

 

 

 

"New Gurus shall open new temples. The old main temples shall be kept neutrally for all the disciples of Srila Prabhupada." Swami B.R. Sridhar

 

"When faults in others misguide and delude you - have patience, introspect, find faults in yourself."

Srila Saraswati Thakur

 

"Everbody has to be happily accomodated in the family of Krishna Consciousness."

Swami B.R. Sridhar