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  1. Dear Indhulekha dd, Kindly accept my respects and sympathy for your condition. It is a little difficult to diagnose another's condition without knowing all of their circumstances, and far from being a qualified kaviraj, which is rare these days, I can only offer my meagre understanding of your problem, having experienced similar condition in my younger days. While traveling in the east extensively I contracted Amoebic dysentry which did the same damage, stripping my body to a mere shell. At the time I was young and ignorant thinking it was just a natural process of toxic elimination, which it was also, so I tried to ride it out, by observing a cleansing diet of mainly fruit. Unfortunately when travelling in the East in the early days, before bottled water, everything including the water could be contaminated. Anyway it got progressively worse, far beyond diarrea to the point of regular bleeding from the bowell due to the amoeba eating into the lining of the colon, which eventually developed into amoebic colitis. And later was to cause haemeroidal problems Due to the ravenous appetite of these little trouble makers most nutritious substance I fed my body was very quickly evacuated from my system. Leaving me depleted and chronicly fatigued, somehow or other the spirit continues to go on thru sheer will power to survive at times. But there was times when i felt extremely hopeless and felt like giving up the ghost so to speak. It was in the course of this condition that i took to eating yoghurt also sometimes almost a mono diet of it, by the bucket load, as it was the only food that gave soothing relief to a now inflamed colon, that instantly rejected most everything, this can be quite a dilemna in the Indian environment as it was difficult to even get unspiced bland vegetables. So i had to start preparing everything myself as I was starting to crave steamed vegetables. At the same time I discovered the magic Bael fruit. which is very effective in slowing up most forms of diarrea. It was miraculous for me, both raw and preserved. Depending on what kind of bugs you have as to what kind of treatment may be effective, we're all individuls with diverse conditioning, so one man's medicine may be another's poison. I tried virtually everything and eventually resorted to alipathic anti-biotics which I was fanaticly opposed too, untill I was almost on my deathbed, but low and behold it did help start to stabilize my condition, and gave me some strength and energy to repair the damage. Gradually with time and experiment I managed to bring everything back to balance over a course of many years, and I'm happy to say 30 years down the track By the grace of God I'm still here with my vivid memories of a number of near death experiences all over India. I never resorted to surgery other than for the haemeroids, but do have some scar tissue on the inner lining of the colon that prevents me eating certain foods still, perhaps to my benefit. Fortunately now I'm living from our own biodynamic fully organic garden and I've learned to grow most herbs, fruit, and vegetable produce we need. In hindsight had I known I would have taken the alipathic option earlier and then rebuilt any damage anti biotics may do at a later date with probiotics. Mind you i rarely use any alipathic medicine other than in extreme circumstance, as i have done with any sign of dysentry while on later pilrimages. But it definately puts this mind at rest. I know there are many who would never consider this option, but I've seen devotees and their children die from this condition, before they would change their beliefs. I sincerely hope and pray you find relief from this condition as I know how much anxiety it can cause. All my very best wishes in the Lord directing you to a happy and healing solution.
  2. So Theist Prabhu does this mean that Srila Prabhupad wasn't a true vegetarian nor all the other vaisnavas the world over who are partaking of milk products, that perhaps they're missing something by being lacto-vegetarian and that the Lord is not giving them any finer intelligence to discern the difference, due to their sinful activities of indirectly aiding and abetting the slaughter of cows or consumption of animal by-products, whether it is in the west or east? If you accept the directives or habit of all the vaisnava acharyas in the Gaudiya guru varga up to the present day, or perhaps other vaisnava lines, whilst simultaneously considering that perhaps they're missing the point with milk. Where does that place them or yourself for that matter? There are acharyas travelling the world all the time having to take these products, but I'm sure the devotees service far outweighs these karmic reactions, not that they would use it to justify their actions. Srila Guru Maharaj used to say, "we have to make the best of a bad bargain, everything is deficient in these times." so long as what you do makes you a better jiva, and helps one to advance in their Krsna consciousness then by all means do that. Of course one can always argue that no one knows what is good for them these days. I'd say at a guess that the whole mission of Srila Prabhupad was suckled on this milk, preparing millions of feasts of prasadam that changed the world as we know it, and I've no doubt the Lord accepted those offerings. If anything it flourished more earlier, before veganism was even heard of. Are you thinking all devotees in the west should embrace veganism for a better adjusted understanding of Krsna consciouness? I'm also curious to know if you would convert from veganism if you could aquire milk derived from lovingly cared-for cows in a proper environment or is this your stand for good. I do agree that a diet too rich in milk products can become detrimental to ones health, but I've found on the other hand most vegans I know to be rather emaciated, and from my experience quite intolerant even of vegetarians, which immediately turns me off whatever they have to offer. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule as with all herbivores and carnivores too. My personal feeling is that it is more important to support those who do literally look after the cows, like in Vrndavan or Navadwip where they are tangibly protected, bathed, fed, pastured, loved and nursed till they die. This kind of go-seva will qualify such souls to join their Lord in His nitya lila pastimes ultimately feasting in a banquet of ras-malai, lassie, panir subji, ras-gula and a host of other delicacies the Lord loves his loved ones preparing for him and His mates every day. I've no doubt Krishna will accept a soyaburger over a panir-burger if the magic ingredient of love and devotion is in it, but we also know, thanks to the acharyas, what His favourite preps are. And we are so fortunate that this archtypal design comes out to us from the centre, to help prepare us for that service in our nitya swarup. They probably won't even have such a word as vegetarian or vegan in that world, just cowherds and milk maids. All glories to them and all the aspiring vaisnavas. May we always serve the will of the honorable devotees. Gaura Hari bol Mr. das
  3. This is a prime example of a pukka Vaisnava community intergrated within the larger society to show Gaudiya vaisnavas are not just a bunch of fringe loopies, the Mauritian devotees are very fortunate to have such a sweet and simple sanga of souls attracted to the true dignified currrant of Mahaprabhu that Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Thakur propagated and upheld. I'm in awe of their dedication. I think it was Srila Prabhupad ACBS who stated the Mauritian government would be the first in the world to become Krsna Conscious. When they send their representitives to greet Srila Gurudev at the airport it is a good step in that direction. All glories to their exemplary service
  4. Unless one is a cent per cent pure lover of God 'The poison you chew in others will most definately come to you' There are none so blind and ignorant as those who will not see.
  5. What!!! "This is not my beautiful wife, this is not my beautiful home. watching the days go by Water flowing under me Once in a lifetime"
  6. It's the company of madness we keep that counts. Maybe on a deeper level this vortex of the Holy Name is trying to draw all souls back to the heart of their hearts, unbeknown to us. All this could cause some conflict with our own independent will. Causing some rather irrational behaviour in the jivas perhaps:eek:. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "'Though the hearts of the gopīs are like high-standing hills, they are inundated by the waves of the nectarean ocean of Kṛṣṇa's beauty. His sweet voice enters their ears and gives them transcendental bliss, the touch of His body is cooler than millions and millions of moons together, and the nectar of His bodily fragrance overfloods the entire world. O My dear friend, that Kṛṣṇa, who is the son of Nanda Mahārāja and whose lips are exactly like nectar, is attracting My five senses by force.'CC Antya 15.15: "Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's beauty, the sound of His words and the vibration of His flute, His touch, His fragrance and the taste of His lips are full of an indescribable sweetness. When all these features attract My five senses at once, My senses all ride together on the single horse of My mind but want to go in five different directions. CC Antya 15.16: "O My dear friend, please hear the cause of My misery. My five senses are actually extravagant rogues. They know very well that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but they still want to plunder Kṛṣṇa's property. CC Antya 15.17: "My mind is just like a single horse being ridden by the five senses of perception, headed by sight. Each of My senses wants to ride that horse, and thus they pull My mind in five directions simultaneously. In what direction will it go? If they all pull at one time, certainly the horse will lose its life. How can I tolerate this atrocity? CC Antya 15.18: "My dear friend, if you say, 'Just try to control Your senses,' what shall I say? I cannot become angry at My senses. Is it their fault? Kṛṣṇa's beauty, sound, touch, fragrance and taste are by nature extremely attractive. These five features are attracting My senses, and each wants to drag My mind in a different direction. In this way the life of My mind is in great danger, just like a horse ridden in five directions at once. Thus I am also in danger of dying. CC Antya 15.19: "The consciousness of each woman within the three worlds is certainly like a high hill, but the sweetness of Kṛṣṇa's beauty is like an ocean. Even a drop of water from that ocean can flood the entire world and submerge all the high hills of consciousness. CC Antya 15.20: "The sweetness of Kṛṣṇa's joking words plays indescribable havoc with the hearts of all women. His words bind a woman's ear to the qualities of their sweetness. Thus there is a tug-of-war, and the life of the ear departs. CC Antya 15.21: "Kṛṣṇa's transcendental body is so cool that it cannot be compared even to sandalwood pulp or to millions upon millions of moons. It expertly attracts the breasts of all women, which resemble high hills. Indeed, the transcendental body of Kṛṣṇa attracts the minds of all women within the three worlds. CC Antya 15.22: "The fragrance of Kṛṣṇa's body is more maddening than the aroma of musk, and it surpasses the fragrance of the bluish lotus flower. It enters the nostrils of all the women of the world and, making a nest there, thus attracts them. CC Antya 15.23: "Kṛṣṇa's lips are so sweet when combined with the camphor of His gentle smile that they attract the minds of all women, forcing them to give up all other attractions. If the sweetness of Kṛṣṇa's smile is unobtainable, great mental difficulties and lamentation result. That sweetness is the only wealth of the gopīs of Vṛndāvana." CC Antya 15.24: After speaking in this way, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu caught hold of the necks of Rāmānanda Rāya and Svarūpa Dāmodara. Then the Lord said, "My dear friends, please listen to Me. What shall I do? Where shall I go? Where can I go to get Kṛṣṇa? Please, both of you, tell Me how I can find Him." CC Antya 15.25: Thus absorbed in transcendental pain, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu lamented day after day in the company of Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī and Rāmānanda Rāya. CC Antya 15.26: To enhance the ecstatic mood of the Lord, Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī would sing appropriate songs and Rāmānanda Rāya would recite suitable verses. In this way they were able to pacify Him.
  7. My dandavat pranams and heartfelt well wishes to another of Srila Prabhupad's flock of dedicated servitors he is calling to the home sweet home he has with His beloved Lordships. I can kind of relate to almost parting with my own daughter long ago in Vrndavan fortunately for us she was spared. Also growing around this New Govardhan area watching all these kids joyfully practicing their Krsna Consciousness. But my heart and soul go out to the family members who must be grappling with this senseless insanity, only reminding us all that there is always danger at every step in this madhouse material world. May you all dive deep into the plane of reality the beautiful. Drawing on stronger faith, understanding and solace to guide you thru these heart-rending difficult times. Guru and Gauranga be with you:pray: Madhura Krsna dasanudas
  8. Yes Prabhu to me these 3 prominent acharyas are like the sambanda, abhideha and prayojana vani of Srila Sanatan, Rupa and Raghunath Goswamis. Delivering all the complete and perfect conclusions we jivas could possibly need. the full extention of Sri Sri Gaur-Nitai's grace for the times we live in . If only we can catch it and practically apply it to our spiritual evolution and development. You are doing a nice service Murali just letting the readers know of this imminent world tour, to give all the wandering souls an opportunity to meet Srila Gurudev, as you say we can't conceive what is being extended to us, by Sri Radha and Krsnas kindness. The waves of Prema bhakti continue to wash upon our shores, for how long we just don't know we just have to seize these golden moments when we can. I hear time and again how people come to various forums including this one and ask where to find a genuine teacher, guru, guardian or if it is even nessacary, when we have the Lord and chaita guru in the heart, but we can never be the loser for taking the divya dharsan of a living sadhu, who has been given such glorious references from our previous acharyas. So even if we were not so sure who is who in the spiritual arena, I'm sure they have a clearer picture of the maha bhagavat pure devotees of Lord Krsna, to help clarify our own sometimes hazy vision of the higher agents. Srila Gurudev is one of those enigmatic personalities that one could never understand with common vision, but there is no doubt what most everyone feels in his company even if he didn't speak a word, then there is the added bonus of so many wonderful vaisnavas that he attracts in the entourage around him. I once wrote that his presence is like 'a continual sankirtan festival' both tangible and invisible to these material eyes. Like a kalpa vrksa tree even the little branches extending from him, are giving so much spiritual sustainance, fullfilling the souls genuine desires. It always reminds me of Guru Maharaj's vision of Mahaprabhu as the 'golden volcano' erupting streams of divine love in all directions. There are some very beautiful souls helping him fullfill Srila Guru Maharaj's wishes and they seem to keep expanding in ever new waves, on every continent. I was fortunate to be at Gaura Purnima this year where there was about 5-10,000 people getting the grace, it was very heartening and encouraging to be part of even tho it was especially intimate in the early days, still it is nice to see so many new bhaktas getting full blown mercy afresh. It never ceases to amaze me the different variety of people he is attracting in the service of Sri Guru and Gauranga. Let us hope and pray that the obstacles to this tour are removed, so more jivas can have access to his infectious spirit.
  9. Dandavats to all appreciators of Srila Sridhara Maharaj's maganimous gift of pure Hari katha. Just a few thoughts regarding the merciful vani of Srila Guru Maharaj and it's munificent dipensation to the world at large. One thing is that these recordings are and have been available to those who want them since their initial recording, thru various chanells they never dissapeared nor were they inaccesable, just the original masters were. In hindsight Goswami Maharaj may regret the decision to sell some precious recordings etc. but all's well that continues well as he now has most of the recordings again which he has painstakingly archived into a database for quick reference. I'd say it is beffitting they came back to him as he was one of the main distributors of this vast treasure trove to start with. What isn't exactly clear is just how much other than what was officially recorded, is still out there, say for instance in the possession of Bhadrinarayan, Guru Maharaj's personal secretary the whole time. As he was present with GM most of the time when others were not. Bhadri now lives in South America with his own following. But little is heard from him these days. I think we would have to conclude that the dhara usually is alive and well in the heart of the devotee, Guru Maharaj is a living tangible reality in those who are doing his will and following his instructions. And this is so obvious in the presence of Srila Govinda Maharaj . Not only do we find all of Guru Maharaj's wisdom, but his love and continual grace that flows down from the adhoksaja plane here and now. And then so many insights into Gm and Srila Swami Maharaj that only he has, thru long personal association, dharsan and favourable transmission, that come thru a life of guru and sadhu seva, so many precious exchanges that he shares with his intimate friends and associates who continually give their lives to his lotus feet. For this is and always has been where the living nectar is to be relished in every moment. As a disciple of Srila Guru Maharaj I find myself always getting fresh nourishment and inspiration and many extraordinary revelations of Guru Maharaj thru many of these dedicated disciples of Srila Govinda Maharaj, like Murali prabhu and others here, what to speak of thru him personally. Then there is his own personal realizations and observations that he sometimes shares in the present development on the world stage as new waves of souls are sent to receive his grace. All seemingly thru some divine mystic arrangement. So anyway I've no doubt both Srila Swami Prabhupad and Srila Sridhara Maharaj are constantly present in his conciousness as he fullfills their wishes to extend Sri Sri Gaura Nitai's affectionate mercy far and wide. Thereby giving hope and ever-fresh encouragement to the floundering souls of this world. Guruvani one of the reasons those tapes are a little controversial is the fact that others have propheted from those darsans by selling the books and tapes with very little of the proceeds going to the Math for propagation. It is true that The Math doesn't nessacarily have copyright on GM's message. But GM on innumerable occasions asked most of his disciples to help the central mission of SCSM and support Srila Govinda Maharaj on every level. He accepted that some of his disciples would choose the Mahamandal over SCSM but it wasn't his expess wish. First and foremost was his desire to see all, even those who had their own disciples to support Srila Guru dev Govinda maharaj in the math or at least in heart and the spirit of harmonious co-operation. But we can still understand that competition can draw out some higher synthesis and service all around hopefully.
  10. Acintya abedha bhed simultaneousy we must try accomodate but at the same time discern our highest prospect and company and gravitate in that direction towards the centre, and the centre will reaval it's design according to our saranagati. It's all a matter of taste and the anandam derived from our choice of existence.
  11. Seeing with equal vision doesn't mean we negate the gradation of Divine Love. Otherwise we run the risk of equating Srimati Thakurani's dedication with that of an impersonalist. There are varying degrees of Theistic yagna, saranagati and bhakti. If one is an ananya bhakta, exclusive devotee, that doesn't mean their heart isn't all-inclusive. The more surrendered to the reservoir of life, the more one has love for all life, but let us not loose our definition of Akhila rasamrta murti by equalizing all regious conceptions. Respect or honor must be there or humility will morph into arrogance. What Srila Govinda Maharaj is saying is that Sri Chaitanya Maha prabhu came with a new installment like no other before Him, and that is why he is referred to as the most munificent or merciful incarnation of Godhead because his karuna extends to all irregardless of their religious persuasion. patrapatra-vicara nahi, nahi sthanasthana<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> yei yanha paya, tanha kare prema-dana<o:p></o:p> lutiya, khaiya, diya, bhandara ujade<o:p></o:p> ascarya bhandara, prema sata-guna bade Here He is merely saying that Lord Caitanya distributed love of God without consideration who it was given to. His desire was to distribute it to the whole creation. Not that he was forcing it on those who didn't wish to take it, and for that He happily entered temples everywhere. In India we will find in some sampredayas a vast difference between the Vishnu Vaisnavas and the Shivites but Lord Chaitanyas' movement is for all souls. This is very nicely expressed in a very sweet new book by Srila Govinda Maharaj called 'The Religion of the Heart.' It's a nice thread and nice thoughts Bija Prabhu keep it flowing. <o:p> </o:p>
  12. Hari bol souls, Well no doubt the wonder of the soul will for ever produce more and more everfresh wonder. It seems we tend to try and localize the soul or pigeonhole it into a limited definition. When that which is covered by material conception or vision is illuminated with realization of itself, then that which was hidden deep in matter and perceived as matter is brought out to be seen as a luminous devotee of God in the full fledged real vision of the soul or that seers consciousness becomes itself within... living in its swarup and also seeing the full potential of all other souls.So we can't really restrict anyone from seeing the form of a gopi in others because ultimately that is what they are or have the potential to be, and seeing their real identity is seeing their soul proper and by the grace of Guru and God we might all be seeing that some time in eternity. But if our vision is limited to a point of light in the heart where is the heart of a blade of grass, or an amoeba and other such souls, and then what form are they taking . It seems it depends on the seer of those souls. So to the fully realized souls they perceive the water, the wind, the fire, the earth all as conscious servitors of the Lord. Pinpointing the soul of the wind is like trying to wrap fire in paper, not that it's nessacarily invisible, but some souls have the desire to be in different places at once and others may shapeshift . It seems a self realized soul becomes its form. and that soul completely pervades the form.Just as Mahaprabhu is seeing Krishna in Lord Jagganaths' form and sees all His transcendental associates simultaneously as Krsnas' associates. We have to try to also, always dive deeper to see with honor the higher identity of those sent to associate with us or all souls for that matter.. I think Srila Sridhara Maharaj is alluding to that in this little snippit. Angles of Vision<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>Disciple: So what is the form of the soul in conditioned material existence?<o:p></o:p> Srila Sridhara Maharaj: That is known according to the dress. The man sometimes to be fully recognized is known only by his dress, the representation of a thing to the ignorant section is of a particular type, it may not be the real thing, but something from their lesser position. Every unit is a slave to the Absolute vision, but to the ignorant there are so many different conceptions of things. <o:p></o:p> Only He knows what is the purpose of every atom, every atom has got its utility and He is the only one who knows that purpose and He sees the divine luminous form of all. He is conscious of the purpose of all existence and He is independent, not responsible to explain to anyone. Every atom’s purpose in life is to satisfy him, this is Hegel’s theory. Reality by Himself and for Himself “Every wave and every movement is to fulfill My purpose, you are also Mine, belonging to me wholesale, but now you have put yourself in such a position that you have to search for me.” <o:p></o:p> Sometimes a man, a beast, tree, bird, creeper, the external understanding is according to the person who is relating to the object, the estimation is different according to the seer, the vision of the seer, the world is in the mind. The classification will be different according to the estimation of the reader how refined their vision may be. Like when ffice:smarttags" /> entered the arena of Kamsa. <o:p></o:p> mallanam-asa-nirnrnam naravarh srina<o:p></o:p> smaro murtiman .<o:p></o:p> gopanam svajano satamksiti-bhujam santa svapriroh sisuh<o:p></o:p> mrtyur-bhoja-pater-virada-vidusam tattvam param yoginam<o:p></o:p> vrisninam paradevitetividito rangam gatah sagrajah <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> According to their vision, everyone saw him with a different estimation, he was viewed according to the respective mentality of every spectator. The people saw him as a divine super human being, while the ladies saw him as the Lord of love and the cowherds as their kinsman while Kamsa saw him as death personified. Relative and Absolute The Nature of the Soul<o:p></o:p> Sat-chit-anandam these three things - first existence, then the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> Knowledge of our own existence, then the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> is the fulfillment of our existence.<o:p></o:p> The figure of existence, the figure of consciousness, and the object of the search of the figure. Whoever is conceiving, when searching for something that is the soul. What the soul wants to feel is higher, and what it is feeling at present is lower, and chit is in between. The level below is matter so it is not satisfactory, therefore we desire anandam, fulfillment, harmony and beauty from the higher level, without anandam existence is empty and chit- knowledge is dry, also unsatisfactory. Three kinds of existence sat-chit-anandam, Satyam-Sivam-Sundaram. Siva is generally represented by consciousness and sakti-potency by matter, and consciousness of the potency is Siva- the figure, the person, and then who can fulfill the search of the person. that is anandam- sundaram, who is beauty, harmony, love. Andanam is complete, full in Itself, both existence and the person you will find in anandam, but not in sat or chit, So existence and the figure of existence both need something more, so with beauty, love and ecstasy, that is perfect existence. Anandam is the Queen, and existence is the servant, the figure of our existence is to serve that ecstasy or bliss and who is the reservoir of that ananda? Govindasundara the beautiful. So what ya see is what ya got! Also if one were to experience a real vision of Krsna then simultaneously ones self would be realized, as self realization is no doubt included in God realization, but it seems most souls from this side are aspiring back to Godhead and i would assume self realization would proceed God realization, so in most cases we should be cautious of such visions and where we actually are in reality. Still I appreciate Srimati Radhas' partition to Time it is truly wonderful, we all need Timeji's friendship. i.e. to give us a little more, I'd love it to stand still awhile when I have my more inspired moments as they are so far and few between. I can just hear Theist movin' me on to another thread.
  13. It's how ya lose the game that counts! And of course win the Lord in your heart. But can you win the Lord in all the other hearts, now that is the question if He's the same Lord?.
  14. Everything is accomodated in the Absolute, if anything were outside then He wouldn't be Absolute. If He is simultaneously one and different, then He can inconceivably lift and not lift, but don't ask me how, it's a half unanswerable question. I bet He can play Karatals with one Karatal too.
  15. This translation of the sloka in Vishvanath Cakravati Thakur's Gurvastakam is interesting we've always heard that yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto ’pi dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam vande guroh sri-caranaravindam Means "By the grace of Krsna one gets guru, then by the grace of guru one gets Krsna." And it definately always sounded perfect, and I still appreciate this but i have heard various different translations of this song. One from Chaitanya Saraswat Math goes like this: "I worship the lotus feet of the divine master, ever singing his glories and meditating upon him at the three junctions of the day. By his grace alone does one gain grace of the Lord, and if he is displeased the soul has no shelter anywhere." Therefore I feel this keeps us focussed regularly each morning that we may chant these prayers in trying to somehow please the sadhu (our gurudev) with our daily or even constant seva for our ever on going eternal benefit. And then our guru reciprocates bestowing increased service and insight, inspiring us to serve that pleasing potency in innumerable practical ways, and by bhajana kriya our anathas are dissolved. I can truly empathise with this statement that without the grace of guru there is no chance of making spiritual advancement. Which is really our ongoing eternal concern, having first received some introduction to the Holy Names thru our Guru. We need constant feeding and nourishment. As I understand we get a hazy conception of the Name first thru conscious sukriti or unconconscious sukriti but only thru the uttama guru do we get the Name proper. and according to how we act on the instructions we are given will our serving propensity increase... Like Bhakti begets more refined divya bhakti, like compacting interest. I think I can understand what Theist is saying about us never being independant in the sense of how can the Lord be taken from our heart, but independance is a reality, perhaps an illusionary one, but it is the disease that keeps us from Him and we really need to acknowledge this state of separation with all honesty to further attract His Loving servitors Grace. That never ceases. Some devotees just seem to have the capacity to be on call 24/7 to their Gurus wishes, a very nice position for one's consciousness to be in. Excuse me if this is an extention of something you didn't wish to continue but it is interesting to understand the inner purport to these deep bhajans. It also has made me wonder where these daily programs of bhajan thru the different times of the day were inaugerated, and what songs Mahaprabhu sang whilst He was present. That's another topic.
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